WEBVTT - Tech Fallout From Russia Invasion 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.440 From the heart of where innovation, money and power CALLI 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:11.799 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:29.000 Emily Jay. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York in Family 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:30.920 chang and this is going to make technology coming up 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.320 in the next hour US equates rose for a second day. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.720 That's his economic data and will actually some hopes surrounding 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.199 Russia's war with Ukraine started to impact investors choices. We'll 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.520 bring you the latest in terms of the market moves, 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.120 plus the growing cyber threat out of Russia after Ukraine's 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.960 institutions were attacked. How big of a risk is there 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.760 for the West as well? More than that later, and 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.480 the amount of misinformation spreading online in the wake of 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.120 Russia's invasion is growing. How platforms are handling their role 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.720 in urgeoning wall We'll get to all of that in 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.640 but a moment, But first, the prospect of talks between 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.240 Russia and Ukraine has been cast well hope, then doubt 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.440 the Kremlin saying Kiev stops responding after rejecting Moscow's initial 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.840 offer for a meeting in Minsk, Belarus. The most amory 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.760 hooden is here with more and in an odd way, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.640 the market seemed to grasp on to this hope that 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.039 there could be talks between Ukraine and Russia. But tell 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.280 us about the real truth here. Well, if there were 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.000 to be, really the timing and the location would be 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.399 incredibly important. So Russia first decided that they would like 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.679 to hold these tasks in Minsk, Belarus, but that's not 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.639 going to happen given the fact that Lukoshenko has allowed 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.920 Russian troops to stay in Belarus and use that as 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:48.160 a base to then invade on Ukraine. From the northern 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.400 border and the Belarus border to the capital of Kiev 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.960 is about two and a half hours or three hours 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.000 spending on which side of that river you you drive upon. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.640 So this is going to be incredibly interesting if these 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.560 talks or to happen. But of course, one thing on 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.400 the tables that President Putumont is a veto on Ukraine 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.120 joining NATO basically neutralize Ukraine in terms of whether or 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.400 not it will join NATO or not. And Ukraine has 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.720 constantly said they want to maintain that path to NATO 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.040 membership and keep that door open. Meanwhile, that for next 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:19.880 steps that you're going to be paying attention to, is 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.959 we head towards the weekend. We've had so much of 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.560 a global narrative China Wang and we've looked at other 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.560 key leaders in the UK and NATO leaders, what next 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.919 in terms of next steps for you? So today was 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.440 really about upping the sanctions against Russia. So we saw 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.000 that European capitals as well as the White House just 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.840 confirming about a hour ago at Press Secretary Jensaki talking 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.160 about the fact that they are going home with sanctioning 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.000 slav Roth, that Russian foreign minister, as well as President 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.480 Putin himself. But this is largely symbolic, giving most of 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.720 his assets are relatively skimmed, that's official assets. But what's 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:56.840 going to happen for the weekend, I think is really 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.639 going to depend on what happens on the ground in Ukrane. 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.440 I imagine if there's anything on the diplomacy front, it 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:05.640 will be a lot of phone calls, but they'll probably 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.960 wait until Monday. Caroline, is any more of this upping 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.840 of the risk or are the potential penalties for Russia 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.959 when it comes to sanctions? And Marie Horden, one of 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.000 the busiest women out there this week, We hope you 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.240 managed to get some rest. Thank you so much for that. Meanwhile, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.720 of course the conflict in Ukraine has been tom of 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:27.320 mine all week, but investors maybe taking a breath ahead 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.360 of the weekend, maybe trying to reallocate, and men would 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.359 have been a significant sell off during Thursday's trade to 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.280 then rally higher. Ed Ludlow bring us the Friday big 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.040 moves for US. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. Position 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.520 This is hope rather than substance on the talks between 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:44.600 Ukraine and Russia. But a lot of green on the screen. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.960 You see the sp the main gage of US equities 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.760 up two point to is the biggest jump in a month, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:52.920 and it almost makes you forget the volatility of the 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:57.720 week right such big declines over Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday sessions 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.440 because of what we saw in Ukraine. Then as that 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.280 one though very tech heavy and there it's kind of 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.480 underperforming because don't forget traders are trying to make up 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.240 their mind. Now where we stand with the Fed in 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.680 the outlook for rates, and note the US tenure yield 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.960 there at one had been a little higher earlier and 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.840 Friday were off by about a basis points softer by 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.040 a basis point, so a lot to consider going into 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.359 the weekend. But a sigh of relief, which is interesting. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.560 I'm going to go ahead to semi conductor. Semi conductor 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.520 is really interesting one. A big focus on Thursday's sanctions 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:32.680 package was restricting access to technology for Russia, semi conductors 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.680 being a big part of that. You see the socks. Yes, 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.240 we underperform the SP five. We're still at one point 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:42.640 six percent UM. Well, those that are willing to discuss it, 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.760 semi conducts covering this is saying, well, if suppliesn't go 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:47.719 to Russia, we have a long list of customers waiting 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.039 for chips, will just send it somewhere else. Demand is 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.040 so great and video also interesting. They coming out with 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.320 statements saying that they have had some kind of hack 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.760 to their internal systems, not doing too much for the 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.000 stock actually rose and sort of late gain and Fridays 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.120 session up one and forward up four percent, despite idling 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.520 one of its most profitable lines in Kansas City for 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.000 the one ye Caroline shortage of semi conductors. Very quickly, 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.240 let me talk about Dell, because twenty four hours ago 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.320 you and I were so focused on Russia Ukraine. This 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.200 is Dell. Over the last six days, six straight days 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.200 of declined we had earnings for the fourth quarter of 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.280 Thursday night, a weak profit outlook. Why supply chain disruptions, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.440 rising costs, they can't service demand. I'm going to be mean. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.240 I know I shouldn't do this on a Friday, but 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.600 let me just read to you this long list of superlatives. 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.000 The biggest drop since April for the stock on Friday, 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.120 at one point it was facing the biggest drop on record. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.960 The stock is at its lowest level since September of 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.599 six September, and this run of six days of declines 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.840 is the worst streak of declines since October twenties, so 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.080 something clearly not going right. For del of course, such 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.640 a legacy name in the world of technology, you might 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.320 have missed that one. For everything that's going on the 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.520 world in the last twenty four hours, well for shining 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.400 a light on it, because there's plenty where sing amid well, 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.359 what is a turbulent time in geopolitics, And indeed the 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.840 market said loudly, we thank you, let's get even more 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.400 insight on the tech sector. Is slightly remarkable moves don 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.159 ives a web Bush, who, of course, at the beginning 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.360 this week, had said that really the situation you were 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.520 playing couldn't have come at a worse time for tech. 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.200 And then the bounce back, what is this? Is this 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.440 that you know we've seen so many bear respects put on, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.120 that we've seen so many shorts already that we sort 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.240 of see the bounce back. Now. Look, I think it's 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:33.279 the most oversold. It's the most oversold that I've seen 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:37.000 tech stocks in the last six years. And I think 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.720 that's essentially what's what's really playing out here. I think 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.680 it was oversold in terms of tech, and now you're 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.480 really starting to see a bounce, like especially with the 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.159 tap wind defend, it's gonna be a slower fed hike 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.560 that's starting to get factored in fifty bits off the table, 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.480 and it's oversold in terms of tech. That's where we 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.560 show the bounce back. Therefore, if we start to reassess 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.160 what happens mark six, because we don't think we're going 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.320 to get a double hiker fifty basis point move, but 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.240 we start to tamper down our expectations for six seven 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.480 right hikes over the course of the year, who wins 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:15.360 them in the tech sector. I think it's a combat. 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.520 I think you've got to look at this two large 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.960 traps are gonna be safe. The names like Microsoft, Apple, Intel, 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.960 Cisco safety blanket names, and you see more and more 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.840 rotation towards tech. I think you're starting to see a 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.360 little more of a risk on dipping the toe in 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.760 the water. And then you look at cybersecurity. I think 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.200 some of these cybersecurity names, I in my opinion it's 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.560 going to be the sector of tech that PIOUP performs 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.920 the most, not just because I think valuations to go 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.440 overall growth. And then you look at the Ukraine situation, 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.960 that's gonna be a potentially two to three tellent names 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.960 like pow out or CrowdStrike, z scale or ACT among others. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.120 And then then that's why this is one you go 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.200 into the weekend, despite the horrific situation in Ukraine, at 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.200 least from a style market perspective, TEX feels like that 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.560 over sold and I think we we're starting to put 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.520 at some sort of bottom in here at with some untech. Okay, interesting, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.840 And I'm your perspective in terms of you know, the 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.120 allocation to big tech has a haven or not. Do 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.240 you think that it rides that wave in some way 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.960 or is this really about trying to understand the valuation 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:26.400 element to it all. I think part of it valuations 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.080 are way over sold, you know, relative obviously, from the 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.400 beginning of the year, we've seen most techdown twenty percent. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.280 Oh out of these down relative to growth, I think 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.880 it's some of the most attractive valuations we've seen going 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.839 back two thousand sixteen. But I think when you look 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.640 at overall growth, which is important, that's not changing because 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.080 of the situation here. And I think when you look 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.680 at overall tech that's really really what I think resoning 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.520 with investors in terms of some of these levels. And lastly, 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.800 it will sort of been over perhaps there's also some 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.640 of the A is syncratic news, some of the M 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:07.040 and A news, you know, zendesque and terminating deals. Are 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:11.760 we expecting fewer combinations here? Consolidation here is there's still 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.640 plenty of opportunity to be had when we're thinking of 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.720 those sorts of eventualities to make us want to get 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.000 into certain tech names. Oh, I think there's going to 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.720 be actually an acceleration M and A because of what 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.400 you're seeing on some of the oversawled names. From evaluation perspective, 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.080 I think names like Microsoft are going to be aggressive 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.600 when it comes to specifically areas like cybersecurity, I think 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.000 you'll see strategic eminate as well as financial And this 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:39.839 is something I think behind the scenes you have a 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.640 lot of investors really focused on which are some of 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.160 these oversawled names you'd be looking at. I think a 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.800 lot of PE names like cybersecurity and some of the 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:53.440 cloud names in particular, just way oversold. Don I's on 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:55.800 the technicals as well as some of the fundamentals at play. 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:57.840 We thank you so much of web Bush. He has 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.680 just been a fun of knowledge when it comes to 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.320 check out. Was on the Bloomberg terminal as well. Amid 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:13.719 these dramatic days, you don't have to move tanks, you 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.200 don't have to move armories. You can just use your 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.840 keyboard to get across, which you think as an active 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.439 art of war in an asymmetric manner. So it's also 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.920 something very difficult to move back against. So, for example, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.000 and Fresher strikes us with a cyber blow, what is 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.600 the US going to do? And so that's definitely what 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:38.079 he conceives as an excellent use of his arsenal. That 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.640 was forming US Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security, Matt Hayden. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.600 They're talking about the threat of cyber attacks from Russia, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.040 not just on Ukraine but also here in the West. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.080 Let's begin Mandian's head of Global Intelligence, Sundra Joyce, to 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.400 talk a little bit more about that. The most phenomenal 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.720 resume in terms of the amount of well Master's degrees 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.360 that you hold in cyber policy and international affairs. Just 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.760 talk to us in here and now, Sandra. What you 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.839 are telling your clients, how would they need to be well, 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.240 what we're telling them is that they need to be prepared, 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.040 but not to panic. The fact of the matter is 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.680 that Russian cyber aggression has been going on for many years, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.960 and a lot of the preparations that organizations are making 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.960 for ransomware and other attacks that are the same preparations 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.040 that we're asking them to make today. Any industry groups 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:26.960 that are more vulnerable than others, or indeed that you 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.960 feel could be undergreater threat than others, well, the risk 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:36.000 of of reciprocal action against or cyber action against US businesses. 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.680 The risk of that does go up with the application 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.440 of sanctions, and when we're looking at reciprocity, a lot 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.080 of the sanctions are based on financial effects. We might 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.640 expect to see some action against the financial sector, but 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.640 it wouldn't be just limited to the financial sector if 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.040 it were to happen. And that's because cyber attacks can 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.240 create effects across all industries, um and and that is 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.400 really what I believe the Russian aggression is about. It's 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:08.880 about creating fear, doubt, uncertainty, um and that's going to 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.480 be very powerful if they can actually get that done. 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.839 Feared doubt, uncertainty was certainly increased in Ukraine amid that 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.120 were not one but two cyber attacks. It seemed to 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.840 be more d d OS distributed denial of service attacks 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.880 and an inability to communicate, particularly with their front lines. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.679 But I'm interested in what types of attacks you might 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.640 see in Ukraine would also perhaps close to home. Isn't 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:33.480 that sort of attack or is it more ransomware that 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.400 we need to fear? Well, what we should be thinking 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.400 about is what is the effect that the Russian government 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.400 would be trying to to get. So they could use 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.360 a very low sophistication technique like a DIDOS attack, but 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.440 what is accompanying with that or things like text messages. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.240 We saw this in Ukraine, text messages going out to 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.280 banking customers telling them that the banks were down, that 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.679 they wouldn't be able to get their money. That is 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.040 an effect that's really cognitive, it's psychology iCal. I think 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:02.880 that what we're going to be seeing from that Russian 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:07.480 playbook is as psychological attachment to any of the cyber 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.360 actions that they're taking trying to drive down the resolve 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.720 the people. The application of sanctions and their effectiveness is 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.240 really driven by the willingness of the people to support them. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.160 And if Russia can get uh, you know, their target population, 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.120 whether it's in Ukraine or elsewhere, to start doubting their 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.000 government to weaken their resolve, then they will have achieved 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.719 the effect that they're looking for. Okay, so give us 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.200 as a consumer, but also the clients that you speak 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.400 to as sort of quick one. I one of what 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.880 we should be looking for how we should be acting 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.640 in this carent environment. Well, really what we need to 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.480 be doing is looking for anomalies in our networks. We 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:50.599 should already be practicing cyber hygiene. Um, what run that playbook? 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.679 If you know that you're going to be taking actions 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:57.719 separating networks or segmenting them, who's responsible for that is 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.960 your general counsel part of your tabletop exercises. If not, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.040 they should be. And a lot of this will also 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.480 require a connection to your your PR or media relations team, 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:12.040 because if you are a target of significance, there certainly 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.000 is going to be a lot of messaging around that. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.640 In fact, you can expect things like defacements or a 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.840 narrative come out that could be completely fabricated. So really 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.760 what organizations need to be doing is to prepare in 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.200 the way that they would have been preparing for any 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.760 ransomware attack or any type of other breach of their network. 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.560 Get the playbook in place, and then remediate and press 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.600 on because our resilience is very important here. It's essential 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.320 not to panic. Companies get breached every day and they 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.160 do continue once the remediation is complete. We of course 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.680 talk a lot about defense, but we started for I 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.120 feel at the first time to hear from the potentially 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.880 the administration to talk about offense when it comes to 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.240 cyber well attack to ascent degree, what do you think 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.280 could be deployed to be a will to, you know, 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.560 take it back upon Russia in some way. Well, the U. 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.760 S Military of course has every option available to them, 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:13.320 and it doesn't need to be a cyber response. In fact, 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.520 if military action UM were to come, they would there 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.080 will be quite a few different options. But one thing 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.120 to remember here is there are multiple instruments of national power. 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.200 If the United States decides that it's going to go 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:30.520 on offense, it can go on offense in many ways, diplomatically, economically, UM. 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.200 Even in within the breadth of military tools. There are 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.840 low level UM you know, things that can be done 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.840 all the way to some of the more sophisticated UM 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.200 attacks that could happen. But really it's not about the 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.120 mode and mean of it what it is. It's about 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.920 the effect. What effect do you want to reach and 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.960 how is the most efficient application UM that you can 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:57.040 put out there to gain that effect? And quickly, Sandra, 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:02.440 the people, Well, the places these attacks coming from is 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.400 becoming easier and easier to identify very quickly, because that 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:06.800 seemed to have been one of the case, was to 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:08.840 ensure that we knew that these are coming from Russia, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.360 even if it wasn't exactly from the government itself. Well, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.960 we do know quite a bit about the Russian threat 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.720 is cyber threat apparatus over this several years that they 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.960 have been conducting attacks UM. Not only the governments, but 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.560 also commercial companies like my own have enumerated a lot 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.240 of their capabilities, and so we know quite a bit 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.160 about them. They've been operating in safe harbor in Russia 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.480 or in adjacent areas for quite a number of years, 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.240 so a lot is known about them. Uh. The the 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.520 thing that gets tricky is that it is they've been 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.360 operating in an area where we have thus far not 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.840 had jurisdiction or a lot of options in order to 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:54.000 stop the activity. Really great to get your expertise amid 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.080 this current environment. Sandra Joyous many and executive vice president 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.400 and had a global intelligence Pretty busy women, I think. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.720 Meanwhile coming up, YouTube massively popular in Russia, and now 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.440 Google is facing pressure to cut back on ties to 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.400 pro Russian channels sase countries continue to sanction Russia. Will 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.400 discuss the knock on effect for some US based businesses. 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:41.439 This is Bloomberg. So with sanctions on Russia ramping up 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.840 following its invasion of Ukraine, certain companies like well Google's 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.280 YouTube are under pressure to remove or cut commercial ties 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.800 with some of its most prolific pro Russian channels. For 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.359 more on this story, I'm joined by Bloomberg's Mark Bergen, 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.600 who covers Google of course Alphabet the parent company, and 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.200 done a great deep dive on this just how deep 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.680 do these relationships run? Mark, You know, that's that's hard 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.080 to say. It's kind of a repeat of seventeen. If 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.919 you remember, there was a lot of criticism around Russia 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.720 Today and Russian influence after the sixteen election that clearly 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:15.640 a lot of that was around some of the bought 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.480 networks that hit Facebook and Twitter. But on YouTube, you know, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.920 Russia Today advertiser itself. You can go look at their 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:25.080 English page as the world's most popular news channel on YouTube. 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.479 They're tremendously successful for formula subscribers. They've built up UH 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.080 in part with the very aggressive digital strategy, and they're 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.760 part of a network. There's some analysts that estimate close 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.440 to a hundred channels that have commercial ties to entities 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.719 that are under the under lesser sanctions prior to this 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.520 past week UH, and now there are you know, the 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.560 EU and the UK and the US are introducing new 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:54.639 section sanctions that impact individuals either prominent TV journalists that 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.920 have YouTube channels or members of the close to the 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.240 Kremlin that have connections with media, and a lot of 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.800 Russian media is very popular on YouTube. Interesting, So how 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.119 does one go about cutting it? I mean before we 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.640 see them label indeed sort of some of these sorts 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.719 of state funded videos and channels. But do you just 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.200 cut it off in tally? How how do you control it? Uh? So, 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:19.720 you know, at this point, YouTube has only kind of 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.639 come out and said that they're looking, they're paying a 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.159 lot of attention to misinformation, and that's been something we 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.520 saw Senator Warner kind of call it out his his 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.959 turn with propaganda. The clearer I think commercial ties with 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.040 with YouTube is they run ads, right, they have a 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.920 revenue split with all their YouTube channels, and so every 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:37.679 ad you go and see, you know, I was just 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.320 looking earlier this morning. You know a lot of these, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.000 at least in the US there they had they run commercials. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.159 That's a split with with YouTube. YouTube could decide to 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.480 demonetize and no longer run ads on those channels which 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:54.240 they have on in some cases. Uh, they're clear list 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.480 even some former Google lawyers that are sort of calling 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.520 for them to make more drastic measures and actually cut 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.280 those channels off Entirely interesting. Once again, very difficult conversations 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.280 I'm sure being having at an executive level. Marked is 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.760 the response. Also, though, if it's not on Alphabet's own YouTube, 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.440 it's being forced elsewhere. How much are we seeing still 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:18.680 YouTube being used by such news organizations or indeed state 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:23.159 funded organizations, or are they going on to other parts 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.840 of the internet. It's a YouTube and prominent What the 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.960 interesting thing about YouTube is that it's both popular in 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.199 Russia for a lot of the state backed media and 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.720 sort of pro Kremlin media. It's also been a huge 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.760 asset for the opposition. Uh naval one whose opposist and 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.120 leader has a massively popular YouTube channel. YouTube Boston likes 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.720 to point out that in a country with take controls 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:50.400 of state media and broadcast, YouTube does offer avenues for criticism, 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.640 and I think that's a fair and valid point. What's 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.399 also happening is that they are under incredible amount of pressure, 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.440 even prior to this past week from the Russian government 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.439 around there's been this contention around a particular YouTube channel 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.159 that that YouTube blocked. That was and then there was 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.960 a court fine, and now they're paying a regular daily fine. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.920 Google is um they're under increasing pressure along with Facebook 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.440 and Twitter to take down accounts that the Russian government 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:20.760 has has told them or either extremist or or using 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.879 the guys of misinformation Mark Bergen, It's a great story, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.440 Go and read it. Google faces sanctions dilemma with pro 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.960 Russia YouTube channels. We thank you so much breaking all 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:41.320 down for us. Stay well, this is technology. I'm Caroline 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.320 Hyde in New York. Now, as we headed into the 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.760 end of what was a pretty tense week, to say 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.440 the least, investors still making sense of how to navigate 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:51.720 the situation of course between Russia and Ukraine, and Ludlow 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.520 is here with what has been a remarkable rally actually 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:57.800 into the end of the week. Yeah, has and you're 0:21:57.800 --> 0:21:59.520 you're trying to work out what your exposure is in 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.120 financial markets. You're also trying to work out which companies 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:04.200 and stocks are going to be impacted in the short 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.239 and long term. And this is a discussion we've got 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.080 to have around social media, Meta, parent company of Facebook 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.040