1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 2: Should Know, and we're going to talk a little bit 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: about Chinese art heists. So let's get started. 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: Go that's right, big thanks to Olivia, she did a 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: banger of an article. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 2: For us, But also thanks to you. Where'd you come 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: up with this idea? 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: Oh? Was this a recommendation? God, I'm so bad about that. 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: I don't know. But we also have to thank reporter 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: for GQ magazine named Alex W. Palmer, who in twenty 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 1: eighteen wrote a pretty a banger of an article as 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: well about these art heists of cultural, very specific cultural 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: and art artifacts from China that have been stolen from 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: museums in the twenty tens and basically pose the question 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: is the Chinese government behind this? Right? 18 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: Are they commissioning people to rob art museums? And I 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: mean not just like you know, some Tinkertown museum on 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: the corner of a neighborhood that like, I don't know, 21 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: you know, not a good museum. So talking like world 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: class museums like the Fountain Blue and outside Paris, Paris, 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: France said it's not Texas. Yeah, so yeah, there's like 24 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: a still to this day, people don't know exactly what 25 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: the deal was, and it seems like despite what Palmer 26 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 2: Alex Palmer was saying, Palmer basically was like, you know, 27 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: didn't point the finger directly, but that was kind of 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: the premise of the article that who knows who's behind this, 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: and it's possible that the government of China has some 30 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 2: hand in it, but also the Chinese art market, as 31 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: we'll see, has blown up so much that it's also 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: entirely possible that it's just like that makes a lot 33 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: of sense for thieves to steal Chinese art. The thing 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: is is these the string of particular heists that Alex 35 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: Palmer talks about that really kind of form this galaxy 36 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: of particular heights. The thieves would go in and steal 37 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: really specific stuff that were Chinese antiquities. A lot of 38 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 2: times they've been looted, and they would walk right past 39 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: other things that were really really valuable, and it almost 40 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: seemed like they had a shopping list of items that 41 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: were particularly Chinese that they wanted to steal. 42 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think almost seem like it. That seems 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: like a certainty to me. 44 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 2: It's true, it is. You could see that like you know, 45 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: Imperial Seal, China dog or that the waving cat. That's fortunate, 46 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: and then you know eggs, butter and apples. 47 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Picasso. 48 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: Nah, they just walk right past really expensive stuff. But yeah, 49 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: it wasn't because they didn't know what they were doing. 50 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: It seems like some of the people who were caught 51 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: with this were clearly professional thieves. 52 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, and some not so great. But we'll get to that. 53 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: We should do a little backstory here to kind of 54 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: set this all up, and we are going to go 55 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: back to about one hundred and close to one hundred 56 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: and ten year period known as the Century of Humiliation, 57 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: and this is when China was kind of getting just 58 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: beat up on all fronts. Back then, a lot of 59 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: global powers at the time were kind of coming in 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: and saying, you know, in China, you should just sort 61 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: of listen to us and do what we say. Particularly 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: during the Opium Wars from eighteen forty one to eighteen sixty, 63 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: a lot of European countries in the UK forced China to, 64 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, to accept treaties they didn't want to accept, 65 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: force them to accept opium import Yeah. I think it 66 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: was nineteen different countries, you know, opening these treaty ports 67 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: for imports from those nineteen countries and accept them and 68 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: basically said you have no choice in the matter. Add 69 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: to this, later that century, in the eighteen nineties to 70 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, when China battled with Japan, which ended up 71 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: losing parts of Manchuria, losing Taiwan had a lot of 72 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: control over Korea at the time. That was, you know, 73 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: they no longer had control over And this all sort 74 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: of leads up to the Chinese Communist Party taking power 75 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: and chairman Mao Zeidong saying in nineteen forty nine, We're 76 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: not going to be subject to insult in humiliation any longer. 77 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: That century of humiliation was a dark part of our 78 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: past and we need to forget about it. 79 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this idea, this concept of the century of 80 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: humiliation was coined by Mao, and then the twenty first century, 81 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: the Chinese Communist Party that Mao founded have kind of 82 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: really kind of used that as a point of pride 83 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: and as a point of unity among the country, which 84 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: is really interesting because it's it. They view it as 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: a really shameful period of their history, and yet they 86 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: it does generate pride in them and brings them together, 87 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: and I think a sense of like we're going to 88 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: overcome that, We're never going to go back to that. 89 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: But that's a change from how Chairman Mao approached it. 90 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: He was like, we're never turning backwards, and in fact, 91 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: everything that reminds us of the past, we're just going 92 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: to destroy. So go into museums, go into libraries, go 93 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: into you know, anywhere that like landmarks, things that remind 94 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: us of the past. They call them the four Olds 95 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 2: that were just meant to be destroyed. And it was 96 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: the cultural revolution, is what they called it. And that's 97 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: how it was approached for the for about fifty years, 98 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: and then finally it kind of turned and then that 99 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 2: pride kind of extended to Chinese antiquities, and in particular 100 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: today in China, there's a tremendous amount of there's a 101 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: tremendous sense of loss over some particular items that came 102 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: from a particular place called the yuan ming Yu. The 103 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: Garden of perfect Brightness, I think is what it's called, 104 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: but less formally it's called the Old Summer Palace. It's 105 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: in Beijing, I believe, and it was magnificent from what 106 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: I can tell. 107 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. And these aren't the only things. I mean, 108 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: all Chinese artifacts and cultural relics were looked at this way. 109 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: But this was just a pretty notable space at the 110 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: time it was built in seventeen oh nine, and then 111 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: for the next century and a half basically just got 112 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, and it had temples, it had gardens 113 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: and pools, and it had a lot of art, all 114 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: kinds of art like you name it. They had it 115 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: some of the most important art of you know, that 116 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: period of China and preceding it. And during the Second 117 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: Opium War in eighteen sixty, the Europeans you know, were 118 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: again coming in and kind of doing their thing against China, 119 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: and the government of China said, you know what, you 120 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: have some people here on a negotiating mission. We're going 121 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: to capture them, We're going to torture them. And so 122 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: British I think about five thousand British and French forces 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: took part in what has been kind of looked back 124 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: on now as one of the greatest acts of cultural 125 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: vandalism in modern history when they looted and either stole 126 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: or just could just outright destroyed or vandalize everything at 127 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: the Old Summer Palace essentially. 128 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were apparently already in the process of looting 129 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: the palace when they heard about the torture deaths of 130 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: that delegation that was trying to broker peace for the 131 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: Second Opium War, and they're like, oh, okay, well, I 132 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: guess we'll burn the place down too, And they did 133 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 2: so over I think two days and nights, but the 134 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: fire kept going for like three days, and rather than rebuild, 135 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: China decided to preserve the place in ruins. It's kind 136 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: of like Hiroshima, like they decided to preserve some of 137 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: the bombed out areas. It's just a reminder, but rather 138 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: than a reminder to never use nukes ever again, this 139 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: was a reminder to China of like what outside powers 140 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: did to China, Like this is what happened to China 141 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: in the past, and it's something to use to kind 142 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: of motivate you to become the best kind of China 143 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: there is that could never let something like that happen again. 144 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of this stuff, as you would imagine, 145 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: like a lot of you know, looted things during wartime 146 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: ended up in control of royalty in other countries, private 147 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: collection sometimes, but a lot of royal palaces in Europe 148 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: ended up with this stuff. Queen Victoria even and this 149 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: is a great little fine from Libya. Besides art, Queen 150 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: Victoria apparently also got a Pekinese dog that she named 151 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 1: Lootie as in loot. 152 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, as in the dog itself was looted, yeah, exactly. 153 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: And I think it was the first Pekinese in all 154 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 2: of England, I would believe it. I also read that 155 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: at the time the press reported that the dog had 156 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: to be taken to a different palace because it was 157 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: being ostracized by the other dogs for its Eastern ways, 158 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 2: whatever that means. 159 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: Well. One of the most prized sort of things at 160 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: this palace was this water clock, and it was you know, 161 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: don't think of it as a normal clock, because it 162 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: was what it really was was a big fountain and 163 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: the twelve spouts were carved in the shape of the 164 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: heads of the animals of the Chinese zodiac, and whenever 165 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: one of the fountains squirted, that was what time it was. 166 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: So that was it became a really big symbol of 167 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: this whole looting. Basically it was in the European wing 168 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: of the palace, but it went away and part of 169 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: and again they were, you know, some of these some 170 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: of the repatriation and these tests. As we'll see, it 171 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: was all kinds of stuff, but it seems like that 172 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: these fountain heads hold particular significance. 173 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: They're the most symbolic. So again, this Summer Palace stuff, 174 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: it was just such a big deal, like you said, 175 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: one of the biggest acts of cultural vandalism ever. It's 176 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: such a symbol in this country of China's shame, and 177 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: these things are like the greatest symbol of that larger symbol, 178 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: Like these zodiac heads mean everything to China, and to 179 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 2: get them back is enormous. The Commist Party kind of 180 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: took a shift, especially as China became more and more 181 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: economically powerful, and it started to kind of look at 182 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: getting some of these antiquities back rather than looking at 183 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: them as reminders of some terrible backwards passed. They became 184 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: part of China's heritage, and the Chinese government in particular 185 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 2: started to want to get these back, and they started 186 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 2: a kind of a trend I think culturally that was like, Hey, 187 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 2: start having pride in these heritage antiques, and let's see 188 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: if we can get them back into China. How who cares? 189 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: Just go get them? 190 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, And one good way to do that is I 191 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: have a ton of money. So a lot of billionaires 192 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: from China obviously stepped forward and showed a lot of 193 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: interest in growing their collections or probably even starting and 194 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: then growing in their collections of Chinese art from history, 195 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: and some of them even open private museums to showcase 196 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: this stuff. They were working with the auction houses very closely, 197 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: and like you mentioned earlier, the Chinese art market, it 198 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: went from really not much of anything in the year 199 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: two thousand to about a billion dollars a year in 200 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: value by twenty eighteen, especially this stuff that was looted 201 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: by the UK and by Europe and the United States. 202 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: And like I said, it's everything you can think of. 203 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: It's you know, statues, paintings, carvings, in any kind of 204 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: art you can imagine. According to UNESCO, close to one 205 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: point seven million Chinese objects are currently held in forty 206 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: seven countries other than China in two hundred different museums. 207 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: And those are just museums in just forty seven countries. 208 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 2: I saw that the Chinese government itself estimates as there's 209 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 2: about ten million antiquities spread throughout the world outside of China, 210 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: and China considers basically all of these stolen. Even if 211 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: a Westerner came in and paid for them back in 212 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: nineteen hundred, the Chinese government basically considers whoever sold it 213 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: to have been taken advantage of by that westerner. So 214 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: if you have a piece of Chinese art and antique 215 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: that's Chinese. 216 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: Hang on to it. 217 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: You may want to hide it actually, because there's a 218 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: good chance that China considers that stolen and that that's 219 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 2: not rightfully yours. Maybe there's some law in your country 220 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: that says it's yours. China doesn't really recognize that because 221 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: in a lot of cases they weren't They weren't sold legitimately, 222 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: they were stolen. They were part of war loot, like 223 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: with the Old Summer Palace. And they have a great point. 224 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff out there, not just from China, 225 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: but from other countries that colonial powers went to and 226 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: said we really like this, We're going to literally steal it, 227 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: and we're going to display in our museums in one 228 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years from now, you're going to ask 229 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 2: for it back and we're going to say no. 230 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're going to ask for our stuff back 231 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: and get. 232 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: Most of it right after World War two, right. 233 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, which we'll you know, we'll talk more about that, 234 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: I guess in a little bit. But as far as 235 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: the government's involvement officially, there was one group called the 236 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: China poly Group. It's a state owned industrial company and 237 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: it was original part of the Chinese military and they 238 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: traded arms. But in two thousand they said, you know what, 239 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: let's diversify and let's start a wing of this company 240 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: called poly Culture, and let's make it one of our 241 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: missions to go and get some of these artifacts. They 242 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,599 Speaker 1: had their own museum to put some of these in 243 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: in Beijing. So that was one of the big sort 244 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: of groups trying to head up this effort along with 245 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: the Chinese billionaires. And then in two thousand, Sotheby's and 246 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: Christie's auction houses in Hong Kong auctioned off three of 247 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: those heads, three of those zodiac fountain heads, and this 248 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: was a big deal. The Chinese Bureau of Cultural Relics 249 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: was like, you can't sell this stuff like this stuff's 250 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: really important to us. It was stolen, it was looted. 251 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: They had no luck. I think they were trying to 252 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: get it back for free, and they eventually said all right, 253 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: well we'll just bid on it and get it the 254 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: old fashioned way, which they. 255 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: Did, right. Okay, So in two thousand China, China, as 256 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: far as like it's searched for repatriating its art and antiquities, 257 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: was so powerless that Christie's and Sotheby's felt comfortable telling 258 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: the government of China, sorry, now, we're not going to 259 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: give these back to you. Less than ten years later, 260 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine, when the estate of East 261 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: Aves Saint Laurent went up for auction, China contacted Christie's 262 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: and said, hey, you're about to auction off two more 263 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: of those zodiac heads. If you do it, it's going 264 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: to be really bad for you. And China had become 265 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: such a player in the global art market that Christie's 266 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: would they handed them over. They gave them to them, 267 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: and in exchange, I think Christie's was the first auction 268 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: house to have an independent or license to independently operate 269 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: in China. Within the next year or something like that, 270 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: so that's how powerful they became. And then also as 271 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: kind of a nod to how valuable Chinese antiquities became 272 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: when China started to become interested in them, there was 273 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: an auction in twenty fifteen, less than two decades after 274 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: China became interested in its own heritage. The presale of 275 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: this the sixteen inch vase, sorry, this is twenty ten, 276 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: a sixteen inch vase. Presale value was eight hundred thousand dollars. 277 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: A half hour after it went under the gavel, it 278 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: sold for almost seventy million dollars to a Chinese billionaire. 279 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: It's a lot of dough, it is. 280 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: It also just shows how bad they want this stuff back, 281 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: because there's one other thing, Chuck, you mentioned the billionaire's 282 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: gating involved. It's not just one way to show off 283 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: how much money they have. It's also to show everybody 284 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: how patriotic they are, because they're buying these things at 285 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: astronomical prices to bring back to China for China. 286 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: For sure. So let's take a break and we'll come 287 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: back and talk about what China was going to do 288 00:16:47,000 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: about this officially right after this, all right, so we're 289 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: back and wondering what China was going to officially do 290 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: about this. In two thousand and nine, the government said, 291 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: you know what, We're all bets are off. Now, We're 292 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: officially gonna get a treasure hunting team together, and we're 293 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: going to go send them around the world and investigate 294 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: all this art that's in the United States, that's in Europe, 295 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: that's in the UK. One of these guys, one of 296 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: the chief detectives, whose name was Lou Yang, and he 297 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: went all over the place and he was like, Hey, 298 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: this was in the Summer Palace. This was in the 299 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: Summer Palace. You guys have our stuff, And they noticed 300 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: kind of not too long after that, a lot of 301 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: these museums on their website started sort of quietly moving 302 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: mentions and web pages about these Chinese artifacts on their websites. 303 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Lou Yang had quite a reputation. I read in 304 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: that Alex Palmer GQ article that he wrote a comprehensive 305 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: book on all the looted antiquities, at least from the 306 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: old Summer Palace, and could show you printouts of websites 307 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: from museums around the world where that thing was being held. 308 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 2: So I guess there was also a really tense meeting 309 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 2: at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York when 310 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 2: he showed up too, because he would just walk around 311 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: and be like, that's China's, that's China's that was stolen, 312 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: that was looted, and very strangely, that was what'd you 313 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: say two thousand and nine. Yeah, the very next year 314 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: the string of museum heists of Chinese antiquities began. 315 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I did want to point out though, 316 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: when I was making the previous point that they took 317 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: down these websites, but not everybody, because the fontaine Bleue 318 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: and Ants was one of those that were like, no, 319 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: you can see right here on our website and we'll 320 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: tell you like what this is and when and where 321 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: it was looted, like what palace was sacked at the time, 322 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: So they kind of, you know, held firm in their 323 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: belief that it was theirs. I guess. But yeah, these 324 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: robberies started in twenty ten, and we don't know exactly 325 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: how many of these have happened. We're going to talk 326 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: about quite a few of these, but they were detailed 327 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: in the GQ article, and then since twenty eighteen, there's 328 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: also been more and it seems like it there may 329 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: have been a concerted effort and then other people just started, 330 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, because they became really valuable and there was 331 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: a market for it, people kind of piggybacked on stealing 332 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: this Chinese art and that the entire thing may not 333 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: be some you know, complete masterminded by one group or 334 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: government kind of thing. 335 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my interpretation too. 336 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 337 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: So apparently the whole thing started in Stockholm, Sweden, at 338 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: the Drottningholm Palace, which is well a Swedish royal palace, 339 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: and they have a Chinese pavilion there and there's a 340 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: state owned collection of Chinese antiquities. And on August six, 341 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: twenty ten, they it was quite a surprise because there 342 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 2: was a group of cars that were set fire to 343 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: elsewhere in Stockholm, and as the police ran over there, 344 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: and we're very much distracted by these sudden car fires 345 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 2: because usually that means riot, so I can imagine that 346 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: put the police on edge. The thieves ran over to 347 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: the palace in their China pavilion, Chinese pavilion, and started 348 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 2: ransacking some specific items. I think they smashed three display 349 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,479 Speaker 2: cases and I'm not sure how many items they stole, 350 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: but I believe it seemed pretty specific and they were 351 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 2: out of there in six minutes, so they were clearly pros. 352 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: Do you think the Swedish police were like, guys, we 353 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: might have our first riot in the country's history. 354 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 2: I've been waiting for this since I was a boy. 355 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: I've been told a car fire means a riot. They 356 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: were like, what is a riot? And it's well, Spin, 357 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: we'll explain it to you. 358 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: Spin's been out of the country before. 359 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, smash and grab, six minutes in and out. 360 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: They hopped on some mopeds, they drove those over to 361 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: a lake and they got on a boat and they 362 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: got out of there. And this was a very sort 363 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: of you know, clearly professional job. Knew exactly what they 364 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: were going for, and you'll see, you know, in a 365 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: lot of these cases it's pretty similar, like they knew 366 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: where this stuff was, they knew exactly what they wanted 367 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: on their little grocery list, like you mentioned. The next 368 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: one was a few months after that at the Code 369 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: Museum in Norway. They busted a glass ceiling and not 370 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: in a good way and repelled down just like a movie. 371 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, just like Charles Groden and Miss Picky, that's right. 372 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: And took fifty six things from the China collection. There. 373 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: A lot of this stuff was from a Norwegian army 374 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: officer named Johannville Norman Munt, who was a big art guy. 375 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: Eventually fought on China's side in the Sino Japanese Wars 376 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety four and eighteen ninety five, but he 377 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: was big into art, had a lot of this stuff, 378 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: including stuff from the Summer Palace, and that stuff was 379 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: taken in the first of the Code Museum's burglaries. 380 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, there was another one, what three years later, 381 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: And this is a big deal, and a museum gets 382 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 2: struck like it's not good, especially if word gets out, because, 383 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: as Livia was pointing out, museums a lot of times 384 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: don't announce the fact that they've been robbed. Number One, 385 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 2: it's very humiliating because they're entrusted with protecting these things 386 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 2: that are part of humanity's cultural heritage. And then secondly, 387 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 2: it also practically means that they need to beef up 388 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: security because now thieves are on alert, like, oh, the 389 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 2: Code Museum is really easy to break into, and they'll 390 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: become a much bigger target. So for two different break 391 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: ins to become public knowledge, it's just not really a 392 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,239 Speaker 2: good thing, but it was also very curious that they 393 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 2: were both they both seemed to be Chinese art heists. 394 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 2: Right after that, they suddenly became very interested in negotiating 395 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 2: with China to give back some of the antiquities that 396 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 2: they held, and in particular Chinese billionaire named Huang Nubo. 397 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: I'm quite sure that's not exactly how you say his 398 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 2: last name, because I said it like I'm from Mississippi 399 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 2: or something. He came to Stockholm or no Bergen and said, 400 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: what do you got. I can give you a donation 401 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 2: if you want, and they showed him some columns from 402 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: the old Summer Pals and I read that he wept 403 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: when he saw them. 404 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was a case where they used the 405 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: car fire thing again, which is really surprising to use 406 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 1: sort of the same method. 407 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 2: Hey, it works, it works in Scandinavia, I guess so. 408 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: But it just seems like that would be a tip 409 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: off maybe, like watch the museum, because you know, Sweden 410 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: and Norway aren't big Riot countries as far as I. 411 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: Know, I would hope it would be now, you know, after. 412 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: Two yeah, yeah, I would think after one. But anyway, 413 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: they use the same method they ended up the Museum 414 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: at Code closed the China Collection for renovation when that 415 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: was in twenty thirteen, and it's still closed for renovation. 416 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: So if that tells you anything, I don't. I'm not 417 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: sure if that thing's opening again anytime soon. No. 418 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 2: I think by renovation they mean the head curators in 419 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: the basement clutching the remaining objects to their chest exactly, 420 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 2: get back, get away. So the Swedish burglars and both 421 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 2: Code burglars were not caught, but kind of an indicator 422 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: that really does point a bit of a finger at China. 423 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: Someone in China. They got a tip, the Code museum 424 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: did from the publicity the second robbery brought. They got 425 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: a tip about one of the objects that was stolen 426 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: in the first robbery that it was in a Shanghai 427 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 2: airport on display. So that does kind of show you 428 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: that China is very much like where'd you get this? 429 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 2: Who cares? They probably didn't even ask that unless they 430 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 2: were congratulating. And so when Norway found this out, they 431 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 2: decided not to do anything about it because they had 432 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 2: just recently ticked China off by giving the twenty ten 433 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: Nobel Peace Prize to Chinese dissident lou Jabo Chobo, who 434 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 2: was imprisoned at the time in China. So China wasn't 435 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: happy with Norway. Sonari I was like, you just keep 436 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 2: your airport antiquity. We're gonna just not say anything about 437 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: it exactly. 438 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: So that was Scandinavia. In England around the same time, 439 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: this is April of twenty twelve. Meanwhile, in England, the 440 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: Fitzwilliam Museum at Cambridge was robbed. There were eighteen items 441 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: taken from here, again very specific Chinese artifacts. These were 442 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: valued between eight and twenty three million bucks. The same 443 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: month in England, the Malcolm McDonald gallery at Durham University's 444 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: Oriental Museum was hit and they took two items this time, 445 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: but they were super valuable. They were three million dollars 446 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: between the two of them. But these guys were caught. 447 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: They finally nabbed somebody. The judge said and sentencing that 448 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: they displayed crass ineptitude because they stashed the stuff in 449 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: a sort of a swamp, a parcel of land that 450 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: was super swampy. Went back to get it, couldn't find 451 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: where they put it, and a witness saw somebody like 452 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: searching the area and was really agitated on their cell phone, 453 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: seemed suspicious, phoned it in and authorities searched the area 454 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: and not only found the objects, but eventually arrested dudes. 455 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 2: They did. They got some people. From what I was 456 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 2: reading up about it, they were like in their early twenties, 457 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: not very pro I think they were up and coming criminals, 458 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: is the impresson. 459 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: That I have, But I think crass ineptitudes it really does. 460 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 2: They Also, this is another giveaway, the police found a 461 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 2: cell phone in one of their underpants while they were 462 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 2: being arrested, and they used that cell phone to kind 463 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: of build a case that connected that heist to I 464 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: think the Cambridge heist and a bunch of other ones actually, 465 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 2: and they ended up tracing it back to a group 466 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: of travelers like Brad Pitt and Snatched. Snatch. Now snatched, 467 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: is that the Amy what's her name? 468 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, yeah, Amy Schumer? 469 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 2: Schumer, Yes, thank you. That was a stupid sidetrack. But 470 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: so these were real life travelers and they had a 471 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 2: gang called the Rathkeel Rovers and they were responsible for 472 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: a bunch of different burglaries and robberies and things like that. 473 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: But they seem to be behind all of the Chinese 474 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: art heists in the country. What's significant about it is 475 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 2: that there was a member of this gang named he 476 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 2: Chong Donald Wong. He was from South London and he 477 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 2: seems to be their Chinese connection because he kept traveling 478 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: in and out of the country, going to China and 479 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 2: smuggling their loot over there. And I don't think they 480 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: recovered a single thing from those heists, did they. 481 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Yeah. I mean they'd figured this 482 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: stuff was just successfully smuggled and eventually sold in private 483 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: collectors have them. But this was I I was sort 484 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: of just surprised for some reason that these were, you know, 485 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: Irish travelers, and I just figured they would all be 486 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: Chinese people. But yeah, they were just hired robbers basically. 487 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: So yes, oh okay, once I wrapped my head around 488 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: that they were just doing a job for money exactly. 489 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: So the question remains though, because the police are like, 490 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: we never caught the highest person at the top of this, 491 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 2: the head cheese, the ultima ombre, that kind of person, 492 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: and they think that even if they had found that person, 493 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: that person was probably commissioned by Chinese mafia, Chinese billionaires, 494 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: maybe the Poly group who knows, but that seems to 495 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 2: be the case for all of the robberies where they 496 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: found the people who carried out the robbery, they were 497 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 2: just hired criminals. They were not doing this because, you know, 498 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 2: they loved China or something like that. They were either 499 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 2: commissioned to or they knew that the Chinese art market 500 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: was so hot that it would just make sense to 501 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: steal Chinese objects because they were going to fetch a 502 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 2: pretty high price. 503 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Should we take another break? Yeah, all right, we'll 504 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: take a break and we'll talk about more heist right 505 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: after this. 506 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, So we're back, and you promised talk of 507 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: more heists. And I'm going to take this to France, 508 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: won't you come with me? 509 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: I love France. 510 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 2: How about France in twenty fifteen. Wasn't that a particularly 511 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: pretty summer? I think? Or spring? 512 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:23,239 Speaker 1: I think it was. 513 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 2: Well, let's go find out. Because March first, twenty fifteen, 514 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: at the Chateau de Fantbleau outside Paris, which is a 515 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: I think, beginning back in medieval times, one of the 516 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: homes of the French monarchs, there was a collection assembled 517 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 2: by Empress Eugenie, who was the wife of Napoleon the 518 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: third She was the last Empress of France, and she 519 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: put together a collection of at least eight hundred objects 520 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 2: that those were just the ones on display. Three hundred 521 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: of them these were Chinese objects antiquities. Three hundred of 522 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 2: them were from the Old Summer Palace alone, mostly taken 523 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 2: by French soldiers who were there to sack the Old 524 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 2: Summer Palace in eighteen sixty. Right, yeah, yeah, so I 525 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: think thieves when they broke into the Fountain Blue in 526 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, they made off with like fifteen different things, 527 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: one of which sticks out to me. It was a 528 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: replica of the King of Siam's crown. Siam is now Thailand, 529 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 2: and that really has very little to do with China. 530 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: It was certainly not a Chinese heritage object. From what 531 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: I can tell. That one seems a little hinky to me. 532 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that was a commissioned robbery or not, 533 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 2: but regardless, I don't Oh, they did find at least 534 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 2: some of the people who were behind it, and again 535 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: these were just hired guns basically. 536 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it was, you know, sort of the same 537 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: pattern as before as far as getting in and out 538 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: of the air. In this time it was you know, 539 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: they were pretty good at what they were doing. Even though, 540 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: like you said, they got six of them. They questioned them, 541 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: didn't they They still couldn't get the big fish, you know. 542 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: I guess they're maybe not good at questioning, but they couldn't. 543 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: They couldn't land the whale. Unfortunately, Paul Harris is an 544 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: art dealer from Britain who he thought it was French 545 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: professional criminals who did this. Again, I just hired people, 546 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: in one case Irish travelers, in this case French you 547 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: know art art deeds. I guess, yeah, pretty good specialty. 548 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 2: This apparently was the origin of the phrase no Sherlock. 549 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: So if you look at you know, research on this, 550 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the research will say like, hey, all 551 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: of these events are sort of part of this larger 552 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: operation like we've been talking about since that article. Though 553 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: I mentioned there have been other other you know, art heist, 554 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: other crimes. There was one in June of twenty nineteen 555 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: at the Museum of Our Eastern Art in Switzerland. The 556 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: time in Geneva took some couple of things from the 557 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: Ming dynasty in less than a minute. This time they 558 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: had DNA evidence in this case and they did catch 559 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: the people. These were British dudes. They said they were 560 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: just trying to make money to pay off a debt. 561 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: So again it looks like another either hired people to 562 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: return these or just people being hired out because this 563 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: stuff's valuable, or just guys doing it because they know 564 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: it's valuable. 565 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just too It's just. 566 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: You can't you don't know for sure, you know. 567 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: No, Again, that hot Chinese art market kind of dilutes 568 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 2: the possibility that yet Chinese government there was one. There 569 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 2: was a second robbery on the Fountain Blue or in 570 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,479 Speaker 2: an attempt, the police broke it up before it could happen, 571 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: in Operation Bamboo. The I guess Spanish and French police 572 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: got together and they said, let's get these guys, and 573 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 2: they did before they could rob the place. And those 574 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 2: guys said that they were hired by the Chinese mafia 575 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 2: and that they had been going after three specific pieces 576 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 2: of art, Chinese art. And I don't think that that 577 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: led anywhere either. I think also though, even if you 578 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 2: could trace it back to say the Poly group or 579 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister, it wouldn't matter. China would basically just 580 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 2: say so, or they would deny it or whatever, and 581 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: everybody needs to be essentially an at least good economic 582 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: terms with China right now that it's just the issue 583 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 2: is not going to get pressed, so it doesn't really matter. 584 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 2: It's more just an academic kind of interesting thing to 585 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 2: try to track it back to who's behind it. It's 586 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 2: not actually going to result in any kind of geopolitical differences. 587 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: No, of course, not as far as the Chinese government. 588 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: You know, this whole time, they've maintained like, hey, this 589 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: isn't us that's doing this. The Polyculture group, I believe 590 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: the general manager even talk to the Global Times about 591 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: it instead of was a nonsense story, the GQ story. 592 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: We may sue. I don't think anything ever became of that. 593 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 2: My dad's gonna see you. 594 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, do with that, which you will. But you know, 595 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: their official position as a government is like all of 596 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: that stuff is illegitimate, Like everything you own, you own illegally. 597 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: There's nothing like if you have one like they had 598 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: one in the airport, like you mentioned, if you have 599 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: something like this in your private collection. The Chinese government 600 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: doesn't dissuade any of that. I don't know that they 601 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: officially encourage it, but they they definitely don't say like, hey, 602 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: you have the stolen thing in your private collection. 603 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 2: No, and there's no apparently there's no legal repercussions for 604 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 2: it either. Even if somebody from Norway or Sweden came 605 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 2: over and said this is ours, like this was stolen 606 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 2: from our museum, China would just be like, well, there's 607 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 2: no laws here that could punish whoever did this, so 608 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 2: go home and you. They officially apparently do discourage theft. 609 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 2: But because the item could become damaged in the robbery, right, 610 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 2: that's why, Not because it violates any laws or treaties 611 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 2: or anything like that. Because again, there's a lot of 612 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 2: soreness from the idea that these things were stolen and 613 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 2: there's I mean, it's not even like they make a 614 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 2: good case that's exactly what happened historically. And so I 615 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 2: was trying to figure out, like, okay, if there's museums 616 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 2: around the country that you know, there's this growing movement 617 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 2: for repatriation here in America. We have like the Indigenous 618 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 2: Graves Act, which is like, if you have Native American 619 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 2: remains in your museum collection, you should give them back 620 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 2: to the to the group who from which they came, 621 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 2: so that they can you know, bury the remains or 622 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: do whatever custom they do rather than keeping them in 623 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 2: a museum collection. That's a good example of this, this 624 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 2: kind of growing awareness of responsibility museums have for giving 625 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 2: stuff back that was stolen from a country. But museums 626 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 2: just aren't really going with it. And I was looking 627 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 2: at it and I sent you I think some parts 628 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 2: of a I think an artsy article that talks about this, 629 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 2: like China, Greece, Nigeria, They're all like, you, guys have 630 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,240 Speaker 2: some really important cultural treasures of ours, so give them back, 631 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 2: and museums are basically saying like, no, you won't be 632 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 2: able to take good care of them. We can take 633 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 2: better care of them. And then I think the British 634 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 2: Museum was just discovered to have suffered an extensive robbery 635 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 2: from inside that really kind of undermines that argument that 636 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: you know, they can protect these things better than the 637 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,399 Speaker 2: countries can, because this curator at the British Museum stole 638 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 2: something like two thousand pieces from the museum's collection was 639 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 2: selling them on eBay. So it's not like China and 640 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 2: other countries don't have a legitimate claim to this. It's 641 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 2: just more like Western museums are just basically they're just 642 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: digging in and saying like, no, we're not going to 643 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 2: give these back. 644 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if every piece of ill gotten art, 645 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: whether it was through looting or stealing or even you know, 646 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: started out that way and then we're purchased and repurchased 647 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: like that, there'd be a lot of half empty museums 648 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: if only like super legitimate, legitimately acquired art was on display. 649 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe even more than half. And that's got to 650 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 2: be ultimately the reason why they don't want. 651 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: To do it. Yeah, they're like, what are we going 652 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,879 Speaker 1: to put in the Chinese art wing right of the. 653 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 2: Mets, Yeah, exactly. I think also in the UK in particular, 654 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 2: they have a law that says museums aren't allowed to 655 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 2: repatriate cultural artifacts to other countries, and they're like, yep, 656 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 2: that's the law, and I think the Chinese government is like, 657 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 2: that's your law. You can change that law. Stop hiding 658 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 2: behind that. 659 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree. 660 00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean there were a couple of instances where 661 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,399 Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, this makes sense to not give it back, 662 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 2: like if there's a lot of instability and turmoil in 663 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 2: that country. Another one that really kind of stuck out 664 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,800 Speaker 2: to me is if the cultural heritage is now divided 665 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 2: among multiple countries. So let's say it was a Yugo 666 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: slobban item and now, yeah, Czechoslovakia and Slovenia, they're both 667 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 2: saying like, that's ours, that's a tickler spot. But for 668 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 2: the most part, if it's you know, a stable country, 669 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 2: is like, that's ours. Give it back, especially if it 670 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 2: was looted, there really shouldn't be any discussion about that. 671 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm with you. 672 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 2: You got anything else? 673 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: I got nothing else. 674 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 2: Oh well, you can look out for a movie by 675 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 2: Crazy Rich Asians director John M. Chew coming out sometime soon. 676 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: Netflix is gonna have something based on Grace D. Lee's 677 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 2: novel Portrait of a Thief. And there's a twenty twelve 678 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 2: Jackie Chan movie called CZ twelve about this very kind 679 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 2: of stuff. 680 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: Jackie Chan. 681 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 2: Well, since you said Jackie Champ, he unlocked with Sermail. 682 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: All right. This is on swamp coolers. Hey, guys, you 683 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: talked about swamp coolers in the History of Refrigeration episode. 684 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: We live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, at seven thousand 685 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: feet elevation, where it's historically hasn't gotten hot enough to 686 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: need air conditioning. Although summers are getting hotter here, with 687 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks in the high to mid nineties 688 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: every year. Now it's pretty hot. Our house was a 689 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: custom built house in two thousand and five and it 690 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: does not have AC. So we bought a portable swamp 691 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: cooler last summer to help just on those handfuls of 692 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: really hot days when it's too hot to sleep, and 693 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: it's really effective, I have to say. In the dry 694 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: desert air, some people have whole house swamp coolers on 695 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: the roof with thermostats inside. They use a lot less 696 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: energy than AC, so there are good option in places 697 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: where it's dry and not too hot. They only lower 698 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: the temperature ten to fifteen degrees. That's not bad at all, 699 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,919 Speaker 1: So anything ninety five we get for a short time 700 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't really work. I disagree. Eighty to ninety five is 701 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: pretty substantial, Yeah for sure, But that is from Chandra. 702 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Chandra, whole house swamp cooler. Can you 703 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 2: just see like the tops like open and it says 704 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 2: igloo and giant letters on the side. 705 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a record name too, like an 706 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: album title. 707 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 2: Whole house swamp cooler. 708 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the chick us all mudpuppies or. 709 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 2: Something very nice, Chuck, very nice. Well, if you want 710 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 2: to be like Chandra and write in and tell us 711 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 2: about something that we talked about, that's whole house size. 712 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 2: We love hearing that kind of stuff. You can shoot 713 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:39,359 Speaker 2: us an email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 714 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 715 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 716 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.