WEBVTT - Doing Your Due Diligence on Private Markets

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. Welcome to MEREN Talk

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<v Speaker 1>to Your Money, the personal finance edition of Merin Talks Money.

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<v Speaker 1>In these bonus podcasts, we talk about the best strategies

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<v Speaker 1>for making the most of your money. I'm mere in

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<v Speaker 1>Sunset Web and this would be focusing on private markets.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not a topic John and I discussed that often,

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<v Speaker 1>except for in a minthly disparaging way, but it is

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<v Speaker 1>something many of you have written in about. So we

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<v Speaker 1>have decided to invite in a guest to help us

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<v Speaker 1>talk about why you might want to get into private credit,

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<v Speaker 1>private equity, etc. And if is an investment path that

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<v Speaker 1>you want to go down, what exactly are the smart

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<v Speaker 1>ways of interpreting what is out there? So with me

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<v Speaker 1>Morning Star Chief executive Officer kun Al Capol. Morning Sara

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<v Speaker 1>is a leading provider of independent investment insights and rating

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<v Speaker 1>space in Chicago. Can not thanks so much for jo

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<v Speaker 1>us today.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me. Mary.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, all of our listeners and readers will be very,

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<v Speaker 1>very familiar with Morning starb because lots of them the

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<v Speaker 1>first thing they will do when they go and look

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<v Speaker 1>for a fund is they'll look up your rating on

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<v Speaker 1>it and they'll see what they'll see, whether it's a

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<v Speaker 1>go silver fund, a bronze fund. Except for the various

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<v Speaker 1>different ways of rating, but everyone is familiar with the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that when it comes to ordinary listed funds holding

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<v Speaker 1>assets in the public markets, you are one of the

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<v Speaker 1>go tos in the markets for information and also for education.

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<v Speaker 1>You provide a lot of research and education for ordinary investors.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're moving into a new ish area which is

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<v Speaker 1>looking more at rating the private part of the market,

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<v Speaker 1>so private credit, private equity, infrastructure, real estate, these kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of funds. So tell us a little bit about why

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing that and what sort of funds you'll be

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<v Speaker 1>looking at. Vehicles should I say.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's dive right in, and let me just start

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<v Speaker 2>by saying that I think your skepticism is warranted anytime

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<v Speaker 2>you see a flood of money chasing a trend or

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<v Speaker 2>anything like that, I do think putting a skeptical view

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<v Speaker 2>on things is appropriate, and I have no doubt that

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<v Speaker 2>as there's some new products that come out in this space,

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<v Speaker 2>there are going to be some allusy products and it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to be a morning storage job to help investors

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<v Speaker 2>navigate them. But if I back up further and kind

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<v Speaker 2>of try to provide a broader view of what's going

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<v Speaker 2>on around the world. As you know, there's just been

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<v Speaker 2>a preponderance of money that's flowed into the private markets,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's happened in private equity, where you see the

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<v Speaker 2>number of companies in private markets that have taken funding

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<v Speaker 2>from private equity far exceeding what's available in the public markets.

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<v Speaker 2>In Europe alone, you have double the number of pe

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<v Speaker 2>back companies relative to public company. So just to contrast.

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<v Speaker 1>That, that is absolutely true in terms of numbers of companies,

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<v Speaker 1>but in terms of value of companies, the listed markets

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<v Speaker 1>still remain the higher value area.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Yes, the largest companies for sure are listed, and

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<v Speaker 2>that makes sense, but it's notable that the size of

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<v Speaker 2>private companies has gotten larger and larger, and so that's notable.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is one of the things that we talk

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<v Speaker 1>about a lot, which is this idea that companies list

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<v Speaker 1>later and later and later if they list at all.

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<v Speaker 1>So an awful lot of the growth that one might

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<v Speaker 1>have previouly expected to get access to all the public

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<v Speaker 1>markets is now only in the private markets.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct. Now, while private equity gets a lot of the headlines,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can see why it's much more I think

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<v Speaker 2>enticing to write about it and talk about unicorns and whatnot.

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<v Speaker 2>The reality is that most of the action is really

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<v Speaker 2>in private credit, and where investors like you and I

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<v Speaker 2>and wealth managers are going to first encounter the private

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<v Speaker 2>markets is really in private credit. And so if you

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<v Speaker 2>go back to post global financial crisis, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the big money center banks around the world came out

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<v Speaker 2>of that, either facing new regulations or generally taking a

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<v Speaker 2>more cautious approach to how they wanted to manage things,

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<v Speaker 2>or candidly being in a situation where they didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>the capital to lend as much as they previously might have.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that opened the door to what i'll call

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<v Speaker 2>sort of non large banking lenders emerging, and you saw

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<v Speaker 2>particularly private equity firms starting to step into the space,

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<v Speaker 2>some built up insurance capabilities and whatnot to invest here.

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<v Speaker 2>And so private credit has really taken off and in

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<v Speaker 2>many large markets around the world, and increasing amount of

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<v Speaker 2>debt is issued via private markets. And so what you're

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<v Speaker 2>starting to see in some parts of the world is

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<v Speaker 2>the arrival of products available to retail wealth investors that

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<v Speaker 2>essentially allow them to access the private credit markets.

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<v Speaker 1>So what we're talking about when we talk about private

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<v Speaker 1>credit is companies that are unable to borrow from banks,

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<v Speaker 1>are unwilling to borrow from banks, looking for alternative places

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<v Speaker 1>to borrow money and going to private companies to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that that simple? That's what we're talking about exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They're raising the money the non banking financial institutions in

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<v Speaker 2>many instances.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but that debt remains tradable, just not on a

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<v Speaker 1>listed exchange. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think tradable it could be, obviously, but they tend

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<v Speaker 2>to be held in private hands and so they don't

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<v Speaker 2>trade as much. Obviously. That's a bit of a distinction

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<v Speaker 2>from what we call public high yield, which does trade,

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<v Speaker 2>although it's very debatable as to how liquid that is

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we're talking about entirely a liquid high yield

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<v Speaker 1>to debt.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that does not trade by the moment for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, what is the crossover between modern private credit

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<v Speaker 1>and olden day's sub private ending.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think what you want to be careful about

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<v Speaker 2>is you don't want to throw the baby out with

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<v Speaker 2>the bathwater. There's certainly, as in the public markets, when

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<v Speaker 2>you're investing in debt, the higher the chance of default,

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<v Speaker 2>the greater the interest rate that you're going to demand.

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<v Speaker 2>And you see that in private markets as well. Candidly,

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<v Speaker 2>man and there's a high degree in my view of

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<v Speaker 2>likely correlation between public and private markets because we are

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<v Speaker 2>kind of in a period where you know, things have

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<v Speaker 2>generally gone well in the public and the private markets,

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<v Speaker 2>and so generally speaking, risk is something that I think

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<v Speaker 2>people have been de emphasizing in a way that is

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<v Speaker 2>going to probably be problematic regardless of whether you're looking

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<v Speaker 2>at public or private markets if you have a correction,

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<v Speaker 2>so I think your line of questioning maybe is heading

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<v Speaker 2>down the path that private is maybe more risky. There's

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<v Speaker 2>certainly some factors that make it so, but I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>say that in a wholesale manner. If you look at

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<v Speaker 2>some of the lenders and firms that have got involved,

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<v Speaker 2>you have large firms like the Blackstones and the Apollos

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<v Speaker 2>of the world. They come with solid reputations and the

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<v Speaker 2>ability to do the research, just as you would expect

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<v Speaker 2>on the public side as well.

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<v Speaker 1>No, sure, I suppose. My question really is that if

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<v Speaker 1>you are a company and you need burrows of money,

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<v Speaker 1>your first point of call is going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>bank or publicly listed markets, because maybe that would be

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<v Speaker 1>cheaper for you. So if you end up not going

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<v Speaker 1>to a bank, no.

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<v Speaker 2>Not anymore. It certainly used to be the case that

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<v Speaker 2>one could generalize in that way. But you're starting to see,

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<v Speaker 2>even when there's large m and A taking place, that

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<v Speaker 2>many firms are not going to the public markets and

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<v Speaker 2>they find it quite efficient to go to private markets

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<v Speaker 2>to raise money. And so I think that is the

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<v Speaker 2>underlying point here, both in terms of equity and credit,

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<v Speaker 2>is that what used to just be the purview of

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<v Speaker 2>public markets is no longer just that you're right to

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<v Speaker 2>be skeptical at a high level, but the underlying trends

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<v Speaker 2>show that there is some change in terms of the

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<v Speaker 2>nature of what's available to invest on the private side.

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<v Speaker 1>Letter although we vaguely wonder if there won't come a

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<v Speaker 1>day when in the equity side we'll move back to

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<v Speaker 1>people being more interested and enlisted than private Given that

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<v Speaker 1>as rates don't go back to their previously low level,

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<v Speaker 1>that becomes increasingly obvious that the private equity app performance

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<v Speaker 1>is not quite what maybe we thought it was. So

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<v Speaker 1>we wonder if on the equity side at least you

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<v Speaker 1>might see US wing back towards listed.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a really important point. But in general,

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<v Speaker 2>I would say that investors should expect lower returns from

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<v Speaker 2>public and private markets going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I would probably agree subtainly in the US maybe

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<v Speaker 1>if not elsewhere. But I suppose the point about that

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<v Speaker 1>is that if it is the case that in times

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<v Speaker 1>of normal interest rates, private equity returns are more or

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<v Speaker 1>less the same as public equity returns, i e. Turns

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<v Speaker 1>out that private equity is simply equity with not much

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<v Speaker 1>transparency and a whole balladett why would you take private

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<v Speaker 1>equity over public equity? And that's a question that I

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<v Speaker 1>think we will have answered over the next decade.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's totally the case, and we'll need to look

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<v Speaker 2>at that. I think it's hard to generalize, and at

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<v Speaker 2>least so far, our data so we own pitchbookens, we

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<v Speaker 2>have years and years of data on this. It does

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<v Speaker 2>show that while you're trading liquidity, you do get a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of return premium, and so you're right, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>have to see. But my hunch is that the markets

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<v Speaker 2>are going to be way more correlated on the public

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<v Speaker 2>and private side than most people believe, and so we'll

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<v Speaker 2>see how it clays out.

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<v Speaker 1>We are contact me being told that we use private

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<v Speaker 1>equity as a diversifier, but you're rather suggesting that going

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<v Speaker 1>forward unity that is the case.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's true of most asset classes today that

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<v Speaker 2>because they've all had strong runs, there's a higher degree

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<v Speaker 2>of correlation and it's going to be harder to differentiate.

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<v Speaker 2>That's my personal view. I realize others feel differently, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you just have to look at this here.

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<v Speaker 2>And even what happened in April, you had the public

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<v Speaker 2>markets kind of fall sharply before recovering, and similarly, in

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<v Speaker 2>private markets, while you didn't have a marked to market event,

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<v Speaker 2>so to speak, you certainly didn't see deals getting done.

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<v Speaker 2>And now again with the public markets back, you're sort

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<v Speaker 2>of starting to see a desire to get deals done again.

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<v Speaker 2>So it seems to me that there's more correlation than

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<v Speaker 2>is the case. Clearly, if you can hold something for longer, though,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the case with private equity, I think potentially

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<v Speaker 2>the benefit is you're not trying to trade in and out.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe that explains some of why the returns have been.

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of less. You can hold it for longer than

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<v Speaker 1>you have to hold it for longer, right, correct. So

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<v Speaker 1>when you talk about going into this market, you're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about beginning to rate what you call semi liquid funds.

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<v Speaker 1>Explain to us what we mean by semi liquid.

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<v Speaker 2>Notion of a semi liquid fund in the US, it's

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<v Speaker 2>large in the category what we call interval funds. In Europe,

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<v Speaker 2>it's in the category of things such as altaffs, so ltafs.

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<v Speaker 2>And the notion with these types of investment vehicles is

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<v Speaker 2>that you can come in and out of them on

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<v Speaker 2>a schedule or a schedule. And what I would say

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<v Speaker 2>is that they are different, obviously from the funds that

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<v Speaker 2>you and I started this conversation talking about, because those

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<v Speaker 2>have instant liquidity. Essentially, if you're in an ETF, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>it's near instant liquidity. If you're in a regular mutual fund,

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<v Speaker 2>you at least have daily liquidity, and what you have

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<v Speaker 2>in semi liquid funds is a situation where you get

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<v Speaker 2>liquidity let's say once a quarter, so there's a predetermined

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<v Speaker 2>date where you can buy in or sell out, and

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<v Speaker 2>this allows the manager to take the assets and then

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<v Speaker 2>put them to work in investments that are not liquid

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<v Speaker 2>but The benefit at least of these types of vehicles

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<v Speaker 2>is that they do provide access with some degree of

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<v Speaker 2>liquidity relative to what a traditional private equity of private

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<v Speaker 2>credit fund would do, which is not provide liquidity for

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<v Speaker 2>a longer period.

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<v Speaker 1>Tough on a manager if they know when they have

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<v Speaker 1>to produce cash, they don't know how much cash, and

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<v Speaker 1>if in private equity and private credit you are holding

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<v Speaker 1>for the long term, particularly in private equity, you can't

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<v Speaker 1>be sure that you can exit at any particular time.

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<v Speaker 1>It's still a tough way to manage money.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a tough way to manage money, but it's no

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.680
<v Speaker 2>tougher than on a daily basis when you have to

0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.719
<v Speaker 2>provide liquidity, you know based on who's coming in and out.

0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.559
<v Speaker 2>So I don't find that to be an insumuntable challenge.

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Daily liquidity funds have all kinds of challenges too. You

0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.400
<v Speaker 2>have to kind of anticipate and hold cash for instance,

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:50.760
<v Speaker 2>to think about what's coming in and out. So I

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.600
<v Speaker 2>don't view that as insumountable. I think, what's the bigger challenges?

0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 2>Are you really adding value and providing a premium for

0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.240
<v Speaker 2>the reduced liquidity that you're providing in that vehicle, and

0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 2>our ratings essentially go to try to answer that question

0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.679
<v Speaker 2>and also to put public in private on an equal footing.

0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.800
<v Speaker 2>So if you're going to buy a private vehicle, not

0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.560
<v Speaker 2>only do you want to make sure that you get

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.800
<v Speaker 2>the benefits, but you want to make sure you outperform

0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.880
<v Speaker 2>the public vehicles. And so we want to be conscious

0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:28.679
<v Speaker 2>of not separating the public and private universes entirely. And

0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.360
<v Speaker 2>you'll see that in our methodology when we roll out

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 2>these ratings beginning here in the US and the back

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.440
<v Speaker 2>half of this year, that the idea is also to

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.160
<v Speaker 2>really rate them based on our view of whether they're

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.560
<v Speaker 2>going to outperform similar strategies in the public markets.

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 1>And how are you going to film that view?

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, our analysts obviously are going to do the diligence

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 2>as they do on public market vehicles today. So you know,

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.280
<v Speaker 2>it starts by working to understand the parent you know,

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 2>building these vehicles, so we have a parent rating, and

0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.520
<v Speaker 2>then from there we dig into the actual management of

0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.360
<v Speaker 2>the fund and produce an opinion based on a view

0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>of management's ability to deliver our performance as well as

0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:09.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, key factors such as.

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Expenses, expenses and fees are an interesting part of this

0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.840
<v Speaker 1>whole sector. I mean that was more opaque than one

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:17.800
<v Speaker 1>would like. A lot of the time. The fee structure

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.680
<v Speaker 1>is something that ordinary investors have some trouble getting to

0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 1>grips with quite a lot of the time. The wire

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 1>being included and rated right.

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, it's no different than the fight morning store

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 2>of art in public markets to get common investors access

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 2>to knowledge about what they are paying today. And so

0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I think transparency is a good thing investors. I think

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 2>we'll have that opportunity here in the private markets by

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.920
<v Speaker 2>bringing some transparency in competition.

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.640
<v Speaker 1>With your sense of how private equity, private credit is

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.480
<v Speaker 1>becoming part of the investing universe. And I talked to

0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 1>earlier about you know, the likes of Larry Think and

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 1>how much they think one should have in a private portfolio.

0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 1>What do you think a portfolio should look like these

0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 1>days in terms of allocation to private assets for.

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Most rank and file investors. Let me just start by saying,

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 2>simplicity really matters. And if you feel good about your

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 2>portfolio and you're all in public markets of public equity

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 2>and public data, I think that's fine. You don't have

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to change that. This isn't for everybody, and one of

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 2>the most important things about investing is that it should

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 2>allow you to sleep at night and to hit your goals.

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.640
<v Speaker 2>And if you can do that with the portfolio you have,

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 2>you don't necessarily need to change that. I think for

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 2>most rank and file investors going forward, if you have

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:39.000
<v Speaker 2>an interest in the private markets, the reality is, at

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 2>least in the near term, it's going to be hard

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.200
<v Speaker 2>to get true access to private equity, and so I

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 2>have a hard time saying you should be allocating X

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 2>or Y, because the vehicles as yet aren't in place

0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.720
<v Speaker 2>to provide that at scale. They will be in toime.

0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.520
<v Speaker 2>My personal view is that where these belong is in

0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 2>your retirement assets. In your retirement assets, if you've never

0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.080
<v Speaker 2>owned something like this, it's probably good to start with

0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.680
<v Speaker 2>a very small allocation to the extent that you're interested,

0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.040
<v Speaker 2>so that you can start to get a feel for

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 2>what it means to have something like that in a portfolio,

0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 2>because you will really immediately understand what it is to

0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 2>not have the type of liquidity that you otherwise might have.

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.440
<v Speaker 2>And so I would say that for most investors today,

0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 2>starting off with no more than about five to ten

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:36.520
<v Speaker 2>percent of your retirement assets parked in these vehicles is

0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 2>probably an appropriate way to learn a little bit about

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.240
<v Speaker 2>how you feel about them, how they behave, how you

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 2>want them in a portfolio.

0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.640
<v Speaker 1>So if you are already retired plausibly even you have

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.360
<v Speaker 1>started draw down, this may not be the asset for you.

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 2>I would say that's accurate.

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, while on the subject of retirement assets, how do

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.880
<v Speaker 1>you feel about the British government about Rachel Reeves's idea

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.360
<v Speaker 1>that some of our penchophones should be obliged to have

0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.360
<v Speaker 1>ten percent of their assets in private market.

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I think it's a good idea for long dated asset

0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:15.879
<v Speaker 2>pools to have exposures to the private market. So I

0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 2>like that idea. I'm personally not off the mindset that

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.080
<v Speaker 2>it needs to be prescriptive. I think ultimately these are

0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.480
<v Speaker 2>pools of money that are and should be managed by

0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.439
<v Speaker 2>professionals who should have clear opinions and what types of

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.119
<v Speaker 2>allocations they want. And you know, you certainly see around

0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:38.359
<v Speaker 2>the world different pools of asset owners that have different

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.280
<v Speaker 2>views on this, going from some that don't put anything

0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.560
<v Speaker 2>in private markets to some that are well known and

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 2>have chosen to put close to half their assets in

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 2>private markets. So I think at a high level, I

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 2>absolutely agree that it's a good idea for long dated

0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 2>asset owners to be looking at the asset class. But

0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:03.240
<v Speaker 2>I think the ultimate drivers should be matching the time

0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 2>wherese into the liquidity needs of those that you're serving,

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 2>and so I would sort of leave that up to

0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 2>the individual investment officers there.

0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.960
<v Speaker 1>That is all fascinating and really useful, and I think

0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.680
<v Speaker 1>that we all be really really pleased with what you're

0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.359
<v Speaker 1>doing and the idea of bringing transparency with a little

0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 1>bit more due diligence, et cetera to a market like

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:32.560
<v Speaker 1>this and helping people get intowitter is super helpful. Thanks

0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.560
<v Speaker 1>for listening to this week's Marin Talks to Your Money.

0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.040
<v Speaker 1>If you like us, share rate, review, and subscribe wherever

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your podcasts, although be sure to follow

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.160
<v Speaker 1>me in John on ex or Twitter. I'm at marinsw

0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.679
<v Speaker 1>and John is John Underscore Stepic. This episode was produced

0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.080
<v Speaker 1>by Samasadi Production, Sport and sound designed by Blake Maple's

0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.879
<v Speaker 1>questions and comments on this show and all our shows

0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.679
<v Speaker 1>are always welcome. Our show email is Merri Money at

0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:55.600
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