1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. Michael Rectenwald is known for his 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: critiques of political correctness as well as woke culture and 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: the intersection of corporate and government power, which is literally 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: what fascism was about. Formerly a professor of liberal studies 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: at New York University, Rectenwaal gained prominence after writing anonymously 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: under the non de plume of the anti PC NYU 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: prof and eventually he publicly voiced his opposition to what 8 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: he considered ideological conformity in academia. His discussion of quote, 9 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: the Rise of Corporate Fascism critiques the growing influence of 10 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: corporations aligning with governmental power to enforce policies that prioritize 11 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: ideological agendas over free market recipes. Remember how the government 12 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: during COVID would use your employer to threaten you that 13 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: you had to do what they wanted. You had to 14 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: take the clock shot or they would fire you. Well, 15 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: that's how government uses private companies as their agents, and 16 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: it's evil. So this special bonus podcast is a discussion 17 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: by Michael Rechtenwald r ect n w Ald. If you 18 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: want to read more of what he does, I like 19 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: his stuff. It's called The Rise of corporate fascism. I 20 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: suspect that for many people, fascism is a word they've 21 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: heard used many times. They're not even sure how it's 22 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: different than Nazism. But that's what this is, and he 23 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: explains it well, and you're going to see that, Yes, 24 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: this is happening in America today. 25 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: So today I'm going to talk about the rise of 26 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: corporate fascism. But the title of the talk is Woke 27 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: Capitalism is economic fascism. So we're going to begin by 28 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 2: addressing just what I'm talking about here, How is woke 29 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: capitalism economic fascism and what's wrong with it? So, as 30 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: we know, economic fascism has a long history, dating to 31 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties and thirties. Naturally, when the word fascism 32 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: is used, we think of the totalitarian regimes of Mussolini 33 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: and Hitler and the ugly, racist and anti Semitic characteristics 34 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: of those regimes, But there was also an economic policy 35 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: and component of fascism known in Europe in the nineteen 36 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: twenties and thirties as corporatism. Corporatism is the subordination of 37 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: the economy to the state and the state's adoption of 38 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: favored corporations. Corporatism was an essential element of the economic 39 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: totalitarianism practice under Mussolini and Hitler. Corporatism was adopted in 40 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: Italy and Germany during the thirties and was held up 41 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: as a model for policy makers and intellectuals in the 42 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: United States and the rest of the West. A version 43 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: of economic fascism was in fact adopted in the United 44 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: States in the thirties, and it survives to this day. 45 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: In the United States, these policies were not called fascism. 46 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: They were called planned capitalism. We have witnessed, though, of late, 47 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: a parade of economic fashion policies under Divide administration, with 48 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: its twelve plus executive orders directed at climate change, and 49 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: even its Chips and Science Act, all of which are 50 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 2: instances of economic fascist intervention. So today, economic fascism or 51 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: corporatism flies under an entirely different banner. Today we see 52 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: it called woke capitalism by its critics, or by its proponents, 53 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: stakeholder capitalism. So it's stakeholder capitalism and woke capitalism that 54 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: I'll talk about. And these two, in fact, I'll say, 55 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: are the same. And I'm going to try to explain 56 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: to you just why these corporations have adopted leftism exactly 57 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: what's in it for them? Okay? So stakeholder capitalism, we're told, 58 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: as a form of capitalism that benefits customers, suppliers, employees, 59 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: the local communities, society, and the planet. In addition to shareholders, 60 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: a stakeholder is supposedly anyone that stands to benefit or 61 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: lose from corporate behavior other than competitors, we may suppose. 62 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: Stakeholder capitalism involves changes to the behavior of corporations with 63 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 2: respect to carbon based energy use, but also in terms 64 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: of the distribution of benefits and externalities that corporations produce. 65 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 2: It means not only corporate cooperation but also major governmental 66 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 2: intervention in the economy. However, as to sync from standard corporatism, 67 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: it is being driven first and foremost by corporations themselves, 68 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: and only later is endorsed and enforced by the state. 69 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 2: Stakeholder capitalism includes not only corporate state responses to ecological 70 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: issues such as climate change and also climate change, but 71 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: also rethinking their commitments to already vulnerable communities within their 72 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: eco systems. Says Claus Schwab, this is the social justice 73 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: aspect of stakeholder capitalism. These special stakeholders are supposed to 74 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: include women and black, brown, Indigenous, transgender, and other special 75 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: identity groups who supposedly stand to benefit from this stakeholderism. However, 76 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: they don't. Its proponents pits stakeholder capitalism against what they're 77 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: called neoliberalism. Now, neoliberalism is a weasel word that is 78 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: used by different people to mean different things. But Claus 79 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: Schwab and his co author Tieri Malaret, they use the 80 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: term to refer to what is otherwise known as the 81 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: free market. This is the enemy of stakeholder capitalism. The 82 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: free market is to them a corpus of ideas and 83 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: policies that can loosely be defined as favoring competition over solidarity, 84 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: creative destruction over government intervention, and economic growth over social welfare. 85 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: As if those terms economic growth and social welfare can 86 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: be opposed, that's the absurdity here. Stakeholder capitalism thus is 87 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: opposed to free market, the free market system, to capitalism itself. 88 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: Now we're told that stakeholder capitalism will benefit all these stakeholders, 89 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: but in interfering with the market economy, stakeholder capitalism presents 90 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: a grave injustice to the real stakeholders of businesses, not 91 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:09,119 Speaker 2: only their stockholders or owners, employees and customers, but also 92 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: society at large. Today I mean to show you just 93 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: how stakeholder or woke capitalism poses a threat not only 94 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: to the free enterprise system, but also to individual liberty 95 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 2: and a free society. So let's take a little foray 96 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 2: into popular culture. What is Who is? Doctor Evil? General 97 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: Motors Super Bowl advertisement Doctor Evil? This was the twenty 98 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: twenty two Super Bowl last year, summon viewers to ponder 99 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: the issue of climate change. The ad introduced the company's 100 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 2: electric vehicles stylized as v's, before apparently committing the corporation 101 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: to a net zero future. In the same breath, GM 102 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: subtly suggested what it ordered to be a looming catastrophe 103 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: of climate change. Baby and gentlemen, our takeover of General 104 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: Votors is complete. 105 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Abel. We can now use GM's ultium platform to 106 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: power our whole operation. 107 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: Now we can reduce tailpipe of missions. I'm sorry, am 108 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: I no longer Doctor Evil? I'm Doctor Good. Now. 109 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: I didn't get the meaning. 110 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: Climate change is arguably the number one threat to the world. 111 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: Now, doctor Abel, you are now the number two threat 112 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: to the world. 113 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 2: I refuse to be number two. Number two. We have 114 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: to help the planet. Oh, please cheer for my son. 115 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: Your son, I shall name him baby me. No, his 116 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: name is Kyle. You must help save the world first, 117 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: then you can take over. 118 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: Okay, for how about you let me do the business? 119 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: All right? 120 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: Hold on, I've got it. I will help save the 121 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: world first, man, then take over the world. 122 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: She literally just said that, Scott, you just don't get it, 123 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: do you? What? 124 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: What's then? I get you? You're gonna get it. 125 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: You can't draw me into these little you have like 126 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: a charmin adult. 127 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: You can't push my buttons anymore. 128 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: Will reduce that common footprints? Whatever? 129 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: Okay, let's get you're going Oh on that trick, nor 130 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: you Scott. One day you're going to run the company, 131 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: baby me. 132 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: So. 133 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 2: The ad reprises the theme of the Austin Power series. 134 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 2: Mike Meer, Seth Green, Rob Lowe and Mindy Sterling play 135 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: Doctor Evil. Dr Evil's son, Scott number two and foul 136 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: Fraul Farvarsina, respectively, as his cohorts inform him. Despite having 137 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: taken over GM, Doctor Evil has been just placed by 138 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: climate change from his position as the world's number one threat. 139 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 2: Not to be outdone or to have his plans for 140 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: world domination. Thwarted Doctor Evil co ops Frau Farbuscina's words, 141 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: vowing to regain his number one position by becoming part 142 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: of the climate solution. I will help take over the 143 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: world first, then save the world. The irony of GM's 144 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 2: Doctor Evil appropriation was not lost on Gizmoto columnist Molly Taft, 145 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 2: for whom GM is a real life super villain openly 146 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 2: pretending to be a superhero and making its pretensions blatant. 147 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: She writes, GM's long history of climate denial makes this 148 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: ad painfully literal and is a warning about how polluting 149 00:11:54,960 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: companies are now trying to greenwash their reputations. But for Taft, 150 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: GM is Doctor Evil himself. Marshaling this iconic character is 151 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 2: too clever by half and cuts matters too close to 152 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: the bone. Now the ad should strike us as ironic too, 153 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: But GM's playful adoption of Doctor Evil was a joke 154 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 2: on such observers as Taft. The company ironically suggested that 155 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: it is not the criminal force that Taft and others 156 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: have made it out to be. After all, Doctor Evil 157 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: is a fictional villain and not the real CEO of GM. 158 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: But even more ironic is perhaps GM's perhaps unintentional representation 159 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: of the world economic form. Just as GM appropriated Doctor 160 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: Evil and Doctor Evil appropriated Frau Farbarcina, the AD seem 161 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: to reference the men and ethos of Claus Schwab, the 162 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: chairman and founder of the WF or War of Economic Forum, 163 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: who has been popularly likened to the villain. Schwab is 164 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: the world's leading corporate mouthpiece of climate change catastrophism. He 165 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 2: and his corporate stakeholders signed onto the wf's agenda also 166 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: stand again outside economic and political power, as this agenda 167 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 2: is enacted through his brainchild stakeholder Capitalism. Its Environmental, Social 168 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: and Governance Index, the ESG already measures corporate compliance with 169 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: the agenda. Stakeholder capitalism makes partners of corporations in the 170 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 2: world's governance system as well while advancing their monopolistic economic ambitions. 171 00:13:54,480 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: Now does GM Does GM really mean to appropriate Klaus Schwab? 172 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 2: Whether the whether the appropriation is conscious or not, the 173 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: AD nevertheless recalls Schwab's stakeholderism, and given the prevalence of 174 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: the comparison of Doctor Evil and Clock Schwab all over 175 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: the Internet and the expenditures for the ad, which had 176 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: to be in the multi millions. It is highly unlikely 177 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 2: that the creative team was unaware of this comparison, But 178 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: whether the infegation of Schwab's intentional or not, the AD 179 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: nevertheless issued a biting, tongue in cheek criticism of the 180 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: agenda that GM and consumers are being compelled to accept. Furthermore, 181 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: the Doctor Evil ad tacitly acknowledges that something is evil 182 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: afoot with the establishment of stakeholder capitalism. No matter how 183 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 2: much the WF and its corporate partners gloss the project 184 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: in terms of equity and sustainability, the sense that an 185 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: evil is an agenda is being conducted under the imperatives 186 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: of stakeholder capitalism is irresistible. Now this has also been 187 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: called wo capitalism. The phrase woe capitalism was coined by 188 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: a New York Times editorialist, Ross du Taught. It was 189 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: used to describe a new form, a new corporate activism 190 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 2: in line with the woke agenda, the promotion by for 191 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: profit corporations of identity politics, gender prolalism, transgender rights, lacks, 192 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: immigration standards, voting reform, climate change mitigation, and so on. 193 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: You know the list. Upon coming, coining the term to 194 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: thought ventured to explain it. He essentially suggested that woe 195 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: capitalism works by substituting symbolic value for economic value. That is, 196 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: under woke capitalism, corporations offer workers and consumers a rhetorical 197 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: placebo in place of real costlier concessions such as higher 198 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: wages or better benefits or lower prices. The same gestures 199 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 2: of wokeness also appealed to the elite, the liberal elite 200 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: political elite, whom the woe corporations hope will spare them 201 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: higher taxes as maplis pointing out increased regulations and antitrust 202 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: legislation aimed at monopoly. 203 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: If you liked the Michael Berry Show in podcast, please 204 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 205 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest 206 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: in being a corporate sponsor and partner can be commit 207 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: unicated directly to the show at our email address, Michael 208 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: at Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on 209 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: our website Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show 210 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: and Podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, The King of Ding. 211 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: Executive producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director. 212 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean. 213 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our 214 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: assistant listener and superfan. 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