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Speaker 1: Art originals.

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Speaker 2: This is an iHeart original.

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Speaker 3: So as the woman here at very special episodes, I

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Speaker 3: feel like it's incumbent upon me to note that, as

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Speaker 3: we all know, Friday, March eighth is International Women's Day,

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Speaker 3: So it feels important at least to take a few

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Speaker 3: minutes at the top of the episode to honor some

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Speaker 3: of the incredible women in our lives, especially because this

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Speaker 3: is such a female centric episode.

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Speaker 4: So Dana, I'm going to queue you up.

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Speaker 5: I don't think we need my perspective as a father

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Speaker 5: of daughters, nephew of aunts.

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Speaker 4: Why don't you tell us.

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Speaker 5: About a professional person in your life who's been an

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Speaker 5: idol or a mentor, Oh.

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Speaker 3: My god, an idle. I have a lot of idols.

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Speaker 3: Alyssa Mastromonico, who is just an incredible woman in person.

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Speaker 3: She worked in the Obama administration and now I've worked

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Speaker 3: with her on this podcast called Hysteria. She's just so

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Speaker 3: smart and grounded and cool and down to earth. She's

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Speaker 3: just sort of like the model that I try to

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Speaker 3: base everything I do on in terms of just like

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Speaker 3: other idols. Sometimes when I feel too good about myself,

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Speaker 3: I'll read a Joan Didion book and be like Oh,

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Speaker 3: we're both writers, but we're not doing the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh, man, I know exactly what.

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Speaker 4: You mean by that. Saren.

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Speaker 5: Any any women mentors you want to shout out for

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Speaker 5: International Women's Day?

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I mean, I wouldn't even be on this

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Speaker 1: show with y'all if it wasn't for my two English teachers,

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Speaker 1: Vicki Serati and Pamela Mauri. Thank you both. But like

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Speaker 1: I have, and I think as a guy, it's incumbent

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Speaker 1: upon me to point out how many female role models,

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Speaker 1: women who inspire me, Like I have a list here

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Speaker 1: before me, Jason, I just kind of jotted down a couple.

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Speaker 1: Agatha Christi right, mystery writer, Lucy Parson's political organizer, stage coach,

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Speaker 1: Mary Black woman on the front here alone, Erica Jong, writer,

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Speaker 1: Bessie Coleman pilot, Thelma Shuna maker editor, Catherine Bigelow filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: Agnes Varda filmmaker, Anita Franco Folk sanger, Vera Rubin astronomer,

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Speaker 1: Poncho Barnes, pilot friend of the early astronauts, Emily Noather,

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Speaker 1: mathematician who developed the theory of least action, and of

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Speaker 1: course Amelia Earhart, my first role model.

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Speaker 4: So there you go, that's pretty impressed.

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Speaker 5: I think we got five or six future episodes out

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Speaker 5: of that list right there. Just taking notes, but I

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Speaker 5: feel like we should probably start to get to the

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Speaker 5: episode here, Dana, in honor of International Women's Day. Yes,

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Speaker 5: we're have Zaren tell you the story this week.

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Speaker 3: This is great. I get a week off. This is

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Speaker 3: exactly how I want to spend International Women's Day.

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Speaker 5: Saren, you want to just set this one up for

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Speaker 5: us before we get in.

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Speaker 4: We'll talk about it at the end.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, this one is. I loved this story. It

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Speaker 1: was told to me, and the question of the story

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Speaker 1: I think is so central to the story. I'll just

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Speaker 1: hit you with the question, which is, do you know

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Speaker 1: who wrote Nancy Drew?

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Speaker 3: No, but here's an really embarrassing confession. So I don't

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Speaker 3: know who wrote Nancy Drew, just like off the top

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Speaker 3: of my head, which I feel like I should. I

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Speaker 3: was never a big Nancy Drew kid, but I did

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Speaker 3: like the computer games.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I feel ja hunky.

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Speaker 3: That's my Nancy Drew connection. If anyone shout out to

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Speaker 3: the Nancy Drew computer games, hit me up in my DMS.

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Speaker 3: If you also loved those games.

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Speaker 1: Rereader's gammers. You're all welcome to this story, because this

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Speaker 1: is Nancy Drew. In the late nineteen seventies, an eleven

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Speaker 1: year old girl was kidnapped from the town of Richfield, Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: The eighty pound girl was trapped in the trunk of

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Speaker 1: her kidnappers car for fourteen hours. The young girl never

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Speaker 1: gave up. She eventually figured out how to escape from

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Speaker 1: the trunk of the nineteen seventy Ford. She unscrewed the

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Speaker 1: bolts from the car's tail light. Then she kicked out

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Speaker 1: the light and squeezed her way out. The girl was

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Speaker 1: able to flag down a passing car. How did an

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Speaker 1: eleven year old manage to do this simple? She asked herself,

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Speaker 1: what would Nancy Drew do? Then she did exactly that.

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Speaker 1: The astounded police told the local press that the girl

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Speaker 1: had read around forty five Nancy Drew books, and the

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Speaker 1: mystery stories prepared her mind to deal with the situation

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Speaker 1: and to escape. The story was often repeated in nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary of the publication of the first Nancy

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Speaker 1: Drew books. Nineteen eighty was also the year that the

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Speaker 1: mysterious publishing syndicate behind Nancy Drew was dragged into court

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Speaker 1: to settle a dispute over who owned the rights to

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Speaker 1: the mystery series. Millions of dollars of profits and royalties

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Speaker 1: were on the line. Two women, both accomplished and successful

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Speaker 1: in their respective careers, sat in that New York courtroom.

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Speaker 1: One was seventy four years old, dressed in a powder

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Speaker 1: blue pantsuit and not exactly eager to take the stand.

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Speaker 1: The other was an eighty seven year old woman, and

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Speaker 1: she owned the publishing house. It had been decades since

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Speaker 1: the two women had seen each other. Both would be

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Speaker 1: called to testify, and both would swear to the judge

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Speaker 1: and jury that she was the real writer behind Nancy Drew.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to very special episodes an iHeart original podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Zaren Burnett, and this is the case of

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Speaker 1: the two Nancy Drews. It should be no surprise that

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Speaker 1: Nancy Drew has enjoyed an enduring relevance in the culture,

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Speaker 1: nor should it surprise anyone that she remains such a

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Speaker 1: beloved fictional character. Nancy Drew was and is the plucky

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Speaker 1: teen girl detective with a wicked, sharp mind who's just

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Speaker 1: as fearless as she is smart, It's a rather irresistible

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Speaker 1: combination for a detective. The most interesting mystery of this

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Speaker 1: teen girl detective isn't her popularity, and it also isn't

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Speaker 1: hidden in the plots of the books. The greatest mystery

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Speaker 1: is right there on the cover of the books. It's

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Speaker 1: the name of the author. Most folks have no idea

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Speaker 1: the author, Carolyn Keene, never really existed, which begs the question, well, then,

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Speaker 1: who was Carolyn Keene? That was not the mystery that

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Speaker 1: author Melanie Rayjak set out to solve. Melanie originally was

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Speaker 1: just looking for a good story to tell. She'd wanted

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Speaker 1: to write a biography of the Ohio based journalist in

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Speaker 1: general all around badass, Mildred Wirt Benson.

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Speaker 6: And there were all these tidbits in the obituary that

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Speaker 6: were really fascinating to me, like that she had a

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Speaker 6: pilot's license and that she had been a journalist for decades.

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Speaker 1: Mildred was the first woman to graduate with a master's

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Speaker 1: degree from the University of Iowa's School of Journalism, and

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Speaker 1: she went on to be one of America's great mid

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Speaker 1: century journalists, one who happened to be a woman. Mildred's

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Speaker 1: other claim to fame. She was the main writer behind

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Speaker 1: the Nancy Drew books. There was another big reason that

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Speaker 1: Melanie was interested in that fact.

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Speaker 7: I was a crazy Nancy Drew reader.

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Speaker 6: These books were sort of always floating around in our house,

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Speaker 6: and I read all of them millions of times.

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Speaker 1: But as she started looking through Mildred's archives, she kept

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Speaker 1: running across something else, another.

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Speaker 6: Name I kept coming across. Threaded in with all of

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Speaker 6: her stuff about you know, her upbringing and her schoolwork

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Speaker 6: and all the things she'd done in Iowa and her

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Speaker 6: career afterwards, these stories about Harriet Straatemeyer. And although clearly

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Speaker 6: was connected to Nancy Drew, that seems odd to me

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Speaker 6: that she would preserve the story of this other person

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Speaker 6: in her personal documents.

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Speaker 1: It grabbed Melanie's full attention, intrigued her, and as she

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Speaker 1: looked further into it, she hit upon a realization.

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Speaker 6: It kind of emerged, you know, as if sort of

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Speaker 6: out of the ether. I was like, oh, she's preserved

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Speaker 6: this story because there are these competing narratives about how

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Speaker 6: Nancy Drew came to be.

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Speaker 1: Melanie stepped into her own real life Nancy Drew mystery.

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Speaker 1: It was up to her to solve the mystery of

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Speaker 1: who is the real Carolyn Keene. The next thing Melanie

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Speaker 1: Rayjak discovered was that she was not alone. Others had

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Speaker 1: also attempted to solve this mystery before her, most importantly

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Speaker 1: one other teen detective Jeffrey s. Laban.

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Speaker 6: He didn't do it for anything. He did it for Mildred.

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Speaker 6: I think that to be a fan is to be

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Speaker 6: a volunteer champion, and is only ever motivated by love

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Speaker 6: and passion. And those are great things in the world.

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Speaker 1: Motivated by love and passion. This quite accurately describes our

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Speaker 1: other amateur detective, Jeffrey s Laban.

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Speaker 8: Jeff is fine, saves time.

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Speaker 1: Jeff is a retired cellist. He played for four decades

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Speaker 1: with the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra. He is a man powered

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Speaker 1: by love and passion. Back when he was a boy

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, he was a young reader of

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Speaker 1: series mystery books. Later, those same forces would fuel his

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Speaker 1: desire to solve the mystery of who is the real

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Speaker 1: Carolyn Keene.

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Speaker 8: One of the department stores downtown would have once a

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Speaker 8: year a sale on children's series books, and so it

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Speaker 8: would generally be the first two or the three volumes

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Speaker 8: of each series.

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Speaker 1: His mother would order a box of these books for

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Speaker 1: her young, voracious reader, and one of those boxes of

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Speaker 1: books would change the shape and the course of her

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Speaker 1: young son's life.

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Speaker 8: I remember that the first one that I opened to

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Speaker 8: read was The Hidden Staircase. And here she sneaks into

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Speaker 8: the house during a rainstorm, and while she is hiding

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Speaker 8: in the closet in this room, she feels something poking

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Speaker 8: in her back, and she turns around and pushes it,

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Speaker 8: and its door slides open, and she falls down this

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Speaker 8: long stone staircase.

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Speaker 1: Jeff poured through all of the available Nancy Drew books.

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Speaker 1: Along the way, he grew more and more enamored with

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Speaker 1: the voice of this author. What so clearly resonated with

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Speaker 1: young Jeff was not just the dark and moody vibe,

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Speaker 1: but also the mysterious presence on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the page. He'd read a lot of series books, but

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Speaker 1: the writing of the Nancy Drew books was a cut above.

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Speaker 1: Over time, Jeff also noticed that in some Nancy Drew

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Speaker 1: books the writing was noticeably better than in others. He

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Speaker 1: didn't yet know it then, but even as a young reader,

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Speaker 1: Jeff could intuitively tell one writer hadn't written all of

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Speaker 1: the books in the Nancy Drew series. Indeed, there was

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Speaker 1: more than one Carolyn Keene. What that meant was a

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Speaker 1: mystery yet for him to solve. But soon enough he

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Speaker 1: would discover that truth, which would lead to the most

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Speaker 1: important question, who is the heroine of this tale? And

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Speaker 1: could that same woman also be the villain? Our two

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Speaker 1: amateur detectives, Jeff and Melanie, were both undaunted. They'd cracked

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Speaker 1: this case, just like their girl, Nancy Drew. The long

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Speaker 1: hot days of summer finally gave way to the embrace

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Speaker 1: of the cool and brisk of autumn. It was nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty nine September, to be exact. Looking to the future,

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Speaker 1: a businessman put his thoughts to paper as he typed

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Speaker 1: up a memo. Edward Stratamier had first started his company

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Speaker 1: Stratamire Syndicate back in nineteen oh five. Back then, he

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Speaker 1: wrote and published dime novels, most notably books that were

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Speaker 1: aimed at children. This was his main business series books,

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Speaker 1: adventure books, mystery books. He was quite good a natural storyteller.

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Speaker 1: Edward eventually began to use pen names so he could

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Speaker 1: write more and more books in different genres. Soon enough,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't keep up with all of the contracts for

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Speaker 1: books he had signed, so he hired ghostwriters. He'd come

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Speaker 1: up with the story and they'd write it out.

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Speaker 4: To keep things.

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Speaker 1: Simple and to make sure that there were plenty of books,

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Speaker 1: Edward attached a pen name to each series. That way,

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Speaker 1: if the author behind it changed, the public would never

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Speaker 1: be the wiser. This marked the true beginning of the

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Speaker 1: Stratamier syndicate, and then for decades his firm cranked out

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Speaker 1: series novels meant to be devoured by young readers. His

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Speaker 1: business plan proved steadily profitable. In nineteen twenty nine, Edward

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Speaker 1: Stratemier had an idea for a new series. He put

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Speaker 1: his thinking down in a memo. It was straightforward, matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, as was his style.

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Speaker 9: These suggestions are for a new series for girls verging

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Speaker 9: on novels. I've called this line the Stella Strong Stories.

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Speaker 9: Stella Strong, a girl of sixteen, is the daughter of

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Speaker 9: a district attorney. He is a widower and often talks

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Speaker 9: over his affairs with Stella. Then, quite unexpectedly, Stella plunged

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Speaker 9: into some mysteries of her own and found herself wound

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Speaker 9: up in a series of exciting situations and up to

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Speaker 9: date American girl at her best, Bright, clever, resourceful, and

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Speaker 9: full of energy.

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Speaker 1: Edward found a partner in a small publishing house called

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Speaker 1: Grosset and Dunlap. They agreed to a contract for three

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Speaker 1: books of the new series. After Edward Stratemire got the

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Speaker 1: green light, one of the first things he did was

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Speaker 1: to rework the name of the girl. Detective Stella Strong

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Speaker 1: lacked a certain realism. She sounded like a comic Carowin.

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Speaker 1: Edward wanted something that made her seem more relatable to

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Speaker 1: the everyday girl. He and the publisher traded ideas until boom,

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Speaker 1: they landed on it. The name we all know Nancy Drew.

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Speaker 1: Now with the right name and a contract in place

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Speaker 1: for a three book series, Edward took his next important step.

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Speaker 1: He reached out to a young writer he'd worked with

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Speaker 1: a few times before on a series for girls, in

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Speaker 1: particular his Ruth Fielding series.

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Speaker 9: I have just succeeded in signing up one of our

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Speaker 9: publishers for a new series of books for girls. These

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Speaker 9: will be bright, vigorous stories for older girls, having to

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Speaker 9: do with the solving of several mysteries.

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Speaker 1: Edward laid out his expectations for their working relationship. The

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Speaker 1: writer would pen all three books for the Nancy Drew

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Speaker 1: mystery stories. The novels would be based on outlines supplied

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Speaker 1: by him. The writer would have four weeks to turn

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Speaker 1: in a manuscript, and in turn, the writer would receive

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five dollars for their work. That's

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00:14:05,802 --> 00:14:10,242
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five per book, no royalties, nothing else.

259
00:14:10,802 --> 00:14:13,602
Speaker 1: Most importantly, the ghostwriters would sign away their rights to

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Speaker 1: their work and would receive no credit for their writing. Instead,

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Speaker 1: the author of the series would be the fictitious Carolyn Keene.

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Speaker 1: The young writer considered the offer, and then in October

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine, she agreed to the deal. The writer's

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Speaker 1: name was Mildred Augustine. Later Mildred worked by marriage, and

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Speaker 1: even later Mildred worked Benson by a second marriage. As contracted,

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Speaker 1: Mildred wrote the first three books in the Nancy Drew series,

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Speaker 1: The Secret of the Old Clock, The Hidden Staircase, and

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Speaker 1: The Bungalow Mystery. Those first three books would become an

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Speaker 1: instant success for the publisher. They marked the beginning of

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Speaker 1: a new American icon. While Edward Stratemeyer created the bones

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Speaker 1: of Nancy Drew, and he drew the sketches of the

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Speaker 1: outlines of the first three stories. It was Mildred who

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Speaker 1: would go on to flesh out the character and give

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Speaker 1: Nancy Drew life. She transformed the outlines into a compelling,

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Speaker 1: in vivid world of mystery and spooky portent, culminating in

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Speaker 1: the payoff of well earned justice at the end. According

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Speaker 1: to Mildred's diaries, Edward Stratamier never really gave her much

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Speaker 1: to work with In those original outlines.

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Speaker 2: The basic plot was simply that there was an old

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Speaker 2: clock in which there was a booklet hidden, and the

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Speaker 2: booklet gave the clue to the fact that the will

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00:15:28,242 --> 00:15:31,482
Speaker 2: was in a safe deposit box. Then there was detail

283
00:15:31,522 --> 00:15:34,002
Speaker 2: on that and the conflict of people wanting to get

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Speaker 2: the old man's money. But that was the basic plot,

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Speaker 2: which was a very old, hackneyed thing.

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Speaker 1: That's all there was, which left much for Mildred to do.

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Speaker 1: What was particularly fresh about Nancy Drew was that she

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Speaker 1: was made specifically four girls, and not only that she

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Speaker 1: was a new type of American girl, as Edward Stratamier put.

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Speaker 9: It, an up to date American girl at her best right, clever,

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Speaker 9: resourceful and full of energy.

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Speaker 1: This same attitude was reflected in his own home and

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Speaker 1: in how Edward raised his daughters.

294
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Speaker 6: Stratamar were a very sort of upstanding, fairly upper class family,

295
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Speaker 6: and I think he cared a lot about patriotism of

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00:16:15,082 --> 00:16:19,882
Speaker 6: the day, and he educated his daughters, which was not

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00:16:19,962 --> 00:16:21,962
Speaker 6: always the case in that era.

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Speaker 1: More than a mere capitalist, Edward Stratmeier was the sort

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Speaker 1: of American we don't see much of these days.

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Speaker 7: I would have loved to sit down and talk to him.

301
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Speaker 6: I mean, I think that he really was a wonderful

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Speaker 6: person who was very smart and cared a lot about

303
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Speaker 6: how people take up their place in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yet Edward was still a man of his time, and

305
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Speaker 1: thus he never actually expected his daughters to follow him

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00:16:48,082 --> 00:16:51,802
Speaker 1: into business and take over his publishing empire. But cruel

307
00:16:51,882 --> 00:16:55,322
Speaker 1: reality stepped in. The first Nancy Drew mystery story was

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00:16:55,362 --> 00:16:59,042
Speaker 1: published on April twenty eighth, nineteen thirty. The thing about

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00:16:59,202 --> 00:17:02,282
Speaker 1: any beginning is that it also marks the end of something.

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00:17:02,802 --> 00:17:06,002
Speaker 1: In this case, that was the literal truth, because just

311
00:17:06,042 --> 00:17:09,762
Speaker 1: as this new American icon first came into being, Edward

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00:17:09,922 --> 00:17:13,002
Speaker 1: stepped out of the frame. On May tenth, nineteen thirty,

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Speaker 1: a mere twelve days after the first Nancy Drew book

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Speaker 1: was published, Edward Stratemeyer dropped dead. He passed away at

315
00:17:19,962 --> 00:17:23,122
Speaker 1: home after a bout of pneumonia. He was sixty seven.

316
00:17:23,802 --> 00:17:26,882
Speaker 1: Left behind in his impressive wake of success and brought

317
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Speaker 1: low by loss and bereavement were Edward's two daughters, Harriet

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Speaker 1: and Edna. After his sudden passing, his daughters inherited their

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Speaker 1: father's publishing empire, built on the backs of ghostwriters in

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Speaker 1: series books. Their father never taught them about business affairs,

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Speaker 1: so most folks assumed his daughters would sell the company

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Speaker 1: and live off the profits. But the trouble for that

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Speaker 1: plan there was this thing called a Great Depression. In

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Speaker 1: October nineteen twenty nine, the same month Mildred first started

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Speaker 1: work on the new series, the stock market cratered, plunging

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Speaker 1: America into a financial catastrophe. America entered the Great Depression.

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Speaker 1: The heiresses tried the reasonable response first, they actively courted buyers,

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Speaker 1: but the collapse of America's economy six months prior to

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Speaker 1: their father's death made it exceedingly difficult for the two

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Speaker 1: heiresses to sell their father's publishing company. There were no

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Speaker 1: buyers to be found anywhere.

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Speaker 6: They are unable to do that because it's the depression

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Speaker 6: and no one is buying this company, no one has

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Speaker 6: any money. And so this is the moment at which

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Speaker 6: my feelings about Harriet's Roudemyer Adams and the story kind

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Speaker 6: of changed.

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Speaker 1: It's a real and raw moment. What would or could

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Speaker 1: the Stratomeyer daughters do. The one asset the daughters had

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Speaker 1: on their side was their father's personal secretary. She'd worked

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Speaker 1: with Edward for fifteen years and was familiar with the

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Speaker 1: inner workings of the business.

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Speaker 6: They decide they're going to have to keep the company,

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Speaker 6: and they're going to have to run the company. To me,

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Speaker 6: Harriet sort of emerges in this moment as someone who

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00:19:01,922 --> 00:19:06,562
Speaker 6: has suddenly been given an opportunity to really do something

346
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Speaker 6: in the world, which she.

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Speaker 7: Hadn't had and probably wouldn't have had any other.

348
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Speaker 6: Way, because she was sort of well to do, housewife

349
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Speaker 6: and mother for and I think she was really into it.

350
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Speaker 6: I think she was like, I'm going to actually have

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Speaker 6: a chance to use my education and to run this

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Speaker 6: company that I love, which was started by my father

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Speaker 6: who I adored. And so they take it up and

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Speaker 6: they really made a go of it.

355
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Speaker 1: In the beginning, the sisters shared the daily workload of

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Speaker 1: they're new to them publishing empire. But rather quickly it

357
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Speaker 1: became self evident that Harriet had a head for business.

358
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Speaker 1: Edna did not, so she took a step back.

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Speaker 7: Well.

360
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Speaker 1: Harriet, whose married name was Adams, plunged herself into the

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Speaker 1: business world, which was not at all ready for someone

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Speaker 1: like her.

363
00:19:53,922 --> 00:19:57,762
Speaker 6: There's a lot of correspondence in the files where people

364
00:19:58,482 --> 00:20:02,282
Speaker 6: just address her as mister Adams, like they can't even

365
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Speaker 6: conceive of the idea that a woman is running this

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Speaker 6: company and she just sort of.

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Speaker 7: To deal with it. And so I really sort of

368
00:20:09,122 --> 00:20:10,522
Speaker 7: came to admire her this way.

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Speaker 6: It really gave me a different perspective on her, to

370
00:20:12,602 --> 00:20:14,442
Speaker 6: think about what it must have been like in nineteen

371
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Speaker 6: thirty to take that over, and how in some ways

372
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Speaker 6: it must have fulfilled some dream she had.

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Speaker 1: To aid the fulfillment of her dream. Harriet had a

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Speaker 1: few key assets on her side. One her father's publishing

375
00:20:28,762 --> 00:20:33,442
Speaker 1: empire's track record of success, two his profit minded business model,

376
00:20:34,202 --> 00:20:38,842
Speaker 1: three the guidance of her father's personal secretary. And above

377
00:20:38,882 --> 00:20:43,762
Speaker 1: all else, Harriet had one all important asset Nancy drew

378
00:20:44,362 --> 00:20:50,042
Speaker 1: that said, Harriet also had one other key asset, her ghostwriter, Mildred.

379
00:20:50,442 --> 00:20:52,682
Speaker 1: The sisters reached out to their ghostwriter and asked her

380
00:20:52,682 --> 00:20:55,842
Speaker 1: about writing another Nancy Drew book, a fourth in the series.

381
00:20:56,082 --> 00:20:58,922
Speaker 1: It would be followed by many, many more. The resulting

382
00:20:58,962 --> 00:21:03,402
Speaker 1: contracts made official their long and lucrative partnership. When our

383
00:21:03,442 --> 00:21:06,442
Speaker 1: other amateur sleuth, Jeff, first encountered the mystery of who

384
00:21:06,522 --> 00:21:09,682
Speaker 1: is the real Carolyn Keen, he didn't yet know it

385
00:21:09,722 --> 00:21:12,082
Speaker 1: at the time, but he'd stepped into a role he'd

386
00:21:12,122 --> 00:21:16,802
Speaker 1: only ever imagined, a real life teen detective. For both

387
00:21:16,842 --> 00:21:20,322
Speaker 1: real and fictional detectives, to solve a mystery often requires

388
00:21:20,682 --> 00:21:23,762
Speaker 1: a great deal of shoe leather. For Jeff, just like

389
00:21:23,802 --> 00:21:26,482
Speaker 1: for Melanie RayJack, it meant a great deal of time

390
00:21:26,522 --> 00:21:29,922
Speaker 1: spent in the library. Before the Internet, the library was

391
00:21:29,962 --> 00:21:33,002
Speaker 1: a great place to solve a stubborn mystery. There the

392
00:21:33,082 --> 00:21:36,362
Speaker 1: library in the nineteen sixties, That's where Jeff came across

393
00:21:36,402 --> 00:21:40,402
Speaker 1: his first big clue that Carolyn Keene wasn't who he

394
00:21:40,442 --> 00:21:43,442
Speaker 1: thought she was. The clue was discovered in the library's

395
00:21:43,482 --> 00:21:47,122
Speaker 1: card catalog index. Jeff recalls well that moment when he

396
00:21:47,202 --> 00:21:52,642
Speaker 1: first read those three magic words Carolyn Keene pseudonym.

397
00:21:53,042 --> 00:21:55,482
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, I didn't one with pseudonym meant,

398
00:21:55,722 --> 00:21:59,762
Speaker 8: and so I asked the librarian and she said, well,

399
00:21:59,802 --> 00:22:02,162
Speaker 8: that means. It is what they also call a pen name.

400
00:22:02,482 --> 00:22:05,282
Speaker 8: They have made up a name to write under to

401
00:22:05,442 --> 00:22:07,922
Speaker 8: hide their identity. For some reason, he.

402
00:22:08,042 --> 00:22:10,202
Speaker 1: Had to know more. It was like a magic spell

403
00:22:10,242 --> 00:22:13,842
Speaker 1: had been cast, or perhaps more accurately, it felt like

404
00:22:13,922 --> 00:22:17,882
Speaker 1: the burn for justice of a gumshoe. Detective Jeff knew

405
00:22:17,962 --> 00:22:19,882
Speaker 1: he had to solve this mystery.

406
00:22:20,242 --> 00:22:23,322
Speaker 8: I had gotten bitten by the bug, so that's why

407
00:22:23,402 --> 00:22:25,642
Speaker 8: I just went on this quest to figure out what

408
00:22:25,842 --> 00:22:26,682
Speaker 8: is going on here.

409
00:22:26,962 --> 00:22:30,682
Speaker 1: The teen detective discovered his next clue at a second library,

410
00:22:30,962 --> 00:22:33,362
Speaker 1: Baltimore's Enoch Pratt Free Library.

411
00:22:33,802 --> 00:22:37,242
Speaker 8: It was really exciting. On the main floor they had

412
00:22:37,362 --> 00:22:41,442
Speaker 8: their general reference section, and on the one set of

413
00:22:41,482 --> 00:22:47,562
Speaker 8: bookcases they had these huge, huge volumes, massive tones, and

414
00:22:47,962 --> 00:22:50,562
Speaker 8: they listed by year all the books that had just

415
00:22:50,642 --> 00:22:54,402
Speaker 8: been published or came into print that year. And I

416
00:22:54,522 --> 00:22:58,162
Speaker 8: remember just simply looking up the name Carolyn Keene because

417
00:22:58,242 --> 00:23:01,282
Speaker 8: I was wondering, well, what can I find out about

418
00:23:01,322 --> 00:23:06,602
Speaker 8: this pseudonym? And someone had very thoughtfully penciled in an

419
00:23:06,642 --> 00:23:09,202
Speaker 8: ass to risk next to the name Carolyn Keene and

420
00:23:09,242 --> 00:23:12,082
Speaker 8: it says real name word Comma Mildred A.

421
00:23:13,122 --> 00:23:18,882
Speaker 1: Wirt Mildred A. The asterisk note led Jeff to another

422
00:23:18,922 --> 00:23:22,322
Speaker 1: one of those massive tones where he found more.

423
00:23:22,122 --> 00:23:25,802
Speaker 8: Clues, and they listed not only her name, but a

424
00:23:25,802 --> 00:23:30,122
Speaker 8: lot of other pseudonyms. It also said Carolyn Keene. Well,

425
00:23:30,202 --> 00:23:32,282
Speaker 8: so that was when the bells went off for me,

426
00:23:32,322 --> 00:23:35,602
Speaker 8: and I said aha. And then also in the same

427
00:23:35,722 --> 00:23:39,082
Speaker 8: reference room, they had telephone books from around the country,

428
00:23:39,122 --> 00:23:41,882
Speaker 8: and since it listed that she lived in Toledo, I

429
00:23:41,922 --> 00:23:44,762
Speaker 8: looked at the Toledo telephone book and sure enough, there

430
00:23:44,842 --> 00:23:45,602
Speaker 8: she was listed.

431
00:23:45,922 --> 00:23:50,002
Speaker 1: Jeff jotted down the information, but then time passed. In fact,

432
00:23:50,242 --> 00:23:54,482
Speaker 1: it was years. During college, Jeff moved Indianapolis. Once there,

433
00:23:54,522 --> 00:23:57,762
Speaker 1: he realized he didn't live far from Toledo, Ohio. Jeff

434
00:23:57,802 --> 00:23:59,882
Speaker 1: was no longer a teen detective. Now he was a

435
00:23:59,882 --> 00:24:02,842
Speaker 1: young adult about to pursue his own career, and one

436
00:24:02,962 --> 00:24:05,922
Speaker 1: day he was reminded of the mystery who is the

437
00:24:06,002 --> 00:24:10,442
Speaker 1: real Caroline Keen? When The Saturday Review published an article

438
00:24:10,442 --> 00:24:12,802
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine with the title The Secret of

439
00:24:12,842 --> 00:24:16,442
Speaker 1: Nancy Drew and in the article the writer credited Harriet

440
00:24:16,482 --> 00:24:20,442
Speaker 1: Strademeier as the author of all at the time forty

441
00:24:20,482 --> 00:24:24,442
Speaker 1: three published Nancy Drew Books. Jeff was surprised to see

442
00:24:24,442 --> 00:24:27,042
Speaker 1: that that was much different information than what he'd learned

443
00:24:27,042 --> 00:24:30,122
Speaker 1: in the library as a kid. So Jeff decided, since

444
00:24:30,162 --> 00:24:33,042
Speaker 1: he was so close, perhaps he could meet Mildred in

445
00:24:33,082 --> 00:24:35,842
Speaker 1: person and hear what she had to say about that

446
00:24:35,882 --> 00:24:39,522
Speaker 1: particular article. Since it was the nineteen sixties, Jeff sent

447
00:24:39,562 --> 00:24:43,242
Speaker 1: Mildred a letter sure enough good to her Midwestern nature.

448
00:24:43,402 --> 00:24:47,162
Speaker 1: She responded she invited him to come meet her, not

449
00:24:47,282 --> 00:24:49,082
Speaker 1: at her home, because who knows what sort of fan

450
00:24:49,122 --> 00:24:51,882
Speaker 1: he might be, but he could meet her at her office.

451
00:24:52,162 --> 00:24:53,562
Speaker 1: Jeff was elated.

452
00:24:54,042 --> 00:24:58,082
Speaker 8: I took a Greyhound bus over to Toledo and met

453
00:24:58,122 --> 00:25:01,522
Speaker 8: her at a newspaper office where she worked, the Toledo Blade.

454
00:25:01,962 --> 00:25:04,762
Speaker 8: And I remember that when she would just opened her

455
00:25:04,762 --> 00:25:07,882
Speaker 8: desk drawer to put away her scarf, sitting in the

456
00:25:07,882 --> 00:25:10,762
Speaker 8: top of the drawer was that issue of Saturday Review.

457
00:25:11,322 --> 00:25:12,842
Speaker 8: I knew I had come to the right place.

458
00:25:14,202 --> 00:25:17,722
Speaker 1: When Mildred was confronted by the diligent young detective, she

459
00:25:17,882 --> 00:25:20,962
Speaker 1: wasn't keen to talk. You see, Mildred had legally sworn

460
00:25:21,002 --> 00:25:23,722
Speaker 1: in contracts that she'd never speak publicly about her work

461
00:25:23,762 --> 00:25:27,882
Speaker 1: for the Stratamyer Syndicate. Consequently, Mildred rarely revealed her identity

462
00:25:27,922 --> 00:25:31,082
Speaker 1: as a ghostwriter, whether out of professional courtesy or out

463
00:25:31,082 --> 00:25:34,602
Speaker 1: of fear of the syndicate's lawyers. She was a professional,

464
00:25:34,842 --> 00:25:37,762
Speaker 1: and she had her newspaper career to think of. The result,

465
00:25:37,962 --> 00:25:41,962
Speaker 1: her identity remained a secret. That is save for in

466
00:25:42,002 --> 00:25:45,962
Speaker 1: the Ohio area, where local newspapers often proudly cited Mildred

467
00:25:46,002 --> 00:25:48,362
Speaker 1: as the author and ghostwriter of the Nancy Drew books.

468
00:25:48,682 --> 00:25:51,842
Speaker 1: So Mildred's neighbors they may have known the secret of

469
00:25:51,882 --> 00:25:55,242
Speaker 1: the Stratamyer Syndicate, but most folks, even those in the

470
00:25:55,242 --> 00:25:59,922
Speaker 1: publishing industry itself, had no idea. However, Mildred was still human,

471
00:26:00,282 --> 00:26:04,242
Speaker 1: and slowly, over time and after numerous visits, she warmed

472
00:26:04,322 --> 00:26:06,842
Speaker 1: to Jeff and she trusted him with her secret.

473
00:26:07,002 --> 00:26:10,322
Speaker 8: It eventually got to the point where there were quite

474
00:26:10,322 --> 00:26:14,282
Speaker 8: a few Thanksgivings when I would drive over and have

475
00:26:14,442 --> 00:26:17,722
Speaker 8: Thanksgiving dinner with her at the Toledo Club, and after

476
00:26:17,762 --> 00:26:19,762
Speaker 8: that we would go back to her house and just

477
00:26:19,962 --> 00:26:21,402
Speaker 8: sit and talk and talk.

478
00:26:21,842 --> 00:26:25,562
Speaker 1: During these long conversations, Mildred opened up about her secret

479
00:26:25,562 --> 00:26:29,242
Speaker 1: life as Carolyn Keene. For one, it wasn't super glamorous.

480
00:26:29,402 --> 00:26:31,442
Speaker 1: When Mildred was writing the books, she had to make

481
00:26:31,522 --> 00:26:34,922
Speaker 1: time to write. She paid serious costs to get those

482
00:26:34,962 --> 00:26:38,802
Speaker 1: words down on paper. Her routine was this, She'd return

483
00:26:38,842 --> 00:26:41,242
Speaker 1: home from work at the newspaper. Her mother would be

484
00:26:41,322 --> 00:26:44,602
Speaker 1: there taking care of Mildred's kids. Her husband, Asa worked

485
00:26:44,962 --> 00:26:48,402
Speaker 1: was sickly in bedridden, so there at his bedside, she'd

486
00:26:48,402 --> 00:26:51,882
Speaker 1: set up a little table, situate her typewriter and write

487
00:26:51,962 --> 00:26:53,202
Speaker 1: her Nancy Drew stories.

488
00:26:54,162 --> 00:26:56,882
Speaker 2: Lots of people think that Nancy Drew just came, but

489
00:26:56,962 --> 00:27:00,482
Speaker 2: I paid for that with blood, with real blood. I

490
00:27:00,602 --> 00:27:02,762
Speaker 2: sweat when I wrote the books, and I worked hard,

491
00:27:03,002 --> 00:27:06,322
Speaker 2: unbelievably hard. I don't think very many people would ever

492
00:27:06,322 --> 00:27:08,282
Speaker 2: work as hard as I worked during the most active

493
00:27:08,362 --> 00:27:10,802
Speaker 2: years of my life. I would never do it again.

494
00:27:12,002 --> 00:27:15,002
Speaker 1: Over the course of their friendship, Mildred expressed the same

495
00:27:15,122 --> 00:27:18,682
Speaker 1: sentiment to Jeff. She shared the cost of bringing Nancy

496
00:27:18,762 --> 00:27:21,522
Speaker 1: Drew to life, and she spoke of the time that

497
00:27:21,602 --> 00:27:22,442
Speaker 1: she lost.

498
00:27:22,162 --> 00:27:22,762
Speaker 9: From her own.

499
00:27:24,162 --> 00:27:27,602
Speaker 8: There were certain things that I felt I needed to

500
00:27:27,642 --> 00:27:30,962
Speaker 8: steer clear of with her her first husband Asa, when

501
00:27:31,202 --> 00:27:33,762
Speaker 8: he was ill, and she just set up her typewriter

502
00:27:33,962 --> 00:27:37,322
Speaker 8: next to his bed, and I remember asking her a

503
00:27:37,402 --> 00:27:39,762
Speaker 8: question and she said, oh, there, don't go digging up

504
00:27:39,802 --> 00:27:42,202
Speaker 8: all his memories again. And she just didn't want to

505
00:27:42,202 --> 00:27:45,482
Speaker 8: deal with it, so I would never press her for

506
00:27:45,562 --> 00:27:48,482
Speaker 8: details about anything in her personal life.

507
00:27:48,362 --> 00:27:50,762
Speaker 1: At the time, back when she spent all those sleepless

508
00:27:50,842 --> 00:27:53,962
Speaker 1: nights tending to her ill husband as she breathed life

509
00:27:53,962 --> 00:27:57,562
Speaker 1: into a teen detective. There was a very understandable reason

510
00:27:57,602 --> 00:28:00,362
Speaker 1: why Mildred did it, as she told Harriet in a

511
00:28:00,362 --> 00:28:01,522
Speaker 1: thank you note.

512
00:28:01,722 --> 00:28:04,042
Speaker 2: During the past four and a half years, while my

513
00:28:04,202 --> 00:28:08,402
Speaker 2: husband has steadily gone downhill following a series of seven strokes,

514
00:28:09,202 --> 00:28:12,362
Speaker 2: there have been times when I seriously considered giving up writing.

515
00:28:13,122 --> 00:28:14,882
Speaker 2: Some of the copy I turned out a year or

516
00:28:14,962 --> 00:28:18,322
Speaker 2: so ago probably was not my best. But you are

517
00:28:18,402 --> 00:28:21,002
Speaker 2: very patient, and I feel now that I am over

518
00:28:21,002 --> 00:28:24,202
Speaker 2: the hump, so to speak. The syndicate gift of one

519
00:28:24,242 --> 00:28:27,482
Speaker 2: thousand dollars is more than generous, and to say I'm

520
00:28:27,522 --> 00:28:31,442
Speaker 2: appreciative expresses it mildly. I trust Nancy will go on

521
00:28:31,562 --> 00:28:33,922
Speaker 2: for many years, and that she will vie with the

522
00:28:34,002 --> 00:28:37,122
Speaker 2: Rover Boys in carving a lasting name for herself in

523
00:28:37,162 --> 00:28:38,162
Speaker 2: popular fiction.

524
00:28:38,842 --> 00:28:42,322
Speaker 1: Which Nancy Drew certainly did, but Mildred did not seek

525
00:28:42,322 --> 00:28:44,322
Speaker 1: to make a name for herself as the writer of

526
00:28:44,322 --> 00:28:47,802
Speaker 1: the beloved Teen Girl Detective, and thus no one could

527
00:28:47,882 --> 00:28:51,762
Speaker 1: ever know about what she'd sacrificed to give them. Nancy Drew,

528
00:28:52,282 --> 00:28:54,642
Speaker 1: that was the deal, and she knew it. She accepted it.

529
00:28:55,002 --> 00:28:59,002
Speaker 1: So then why did she open up to Jeff. Maybe

530
00:28:59,042 --> 00:29:02,282
Speaker 1: it's because, at that very human level, it must have

531
00:29:02,362 --> 00:29:05,082
Speaker 1: been nice to have someone know what she'd done, what

532
00:29:05,162 --> 00:29:07,962
Speaker 1: she'd given, to have someone come and thank her and

533
00:29:08,002 --> 00:29:10,642
Speaker 1: tell her what she and her work meant to him.

534
00:29:10,722 --> 00:29:13,402
Speaker 1: It must have felt like a small but meaningful reward

535
00:29:13,722 --> 00:29:16,122
Speaker 1: for her labors. She got to see and feel for

536
00:29:16,162 --> 00:29:19,482
Speaker 1: herself the impact her writing had on her readers. While

537
00:29:19,522 --> 00:29:22,802
Speaker 1: Jeff was slowly uncovering the details of the woman behind

538
00:29:22,882 --> 00:29:25,842
Speaker 1: Nancy Drew, the rest of the world was hearing a

539
00:29:26,002 --> 00:29:29,442
Speaker 1: much different story. Back to that Saturday Review story that

540
00:29:29,522 --> 00:29:33,242
Speaker 1: Jeff mentioned in the January twenty fifth, nineteen sixty nine

541
00:29:33,322 --> 00:29:35,922
Speaker 1: issue of Saturday Review, and a story with the title

542
00:29:36,082 --> 00:29:39,322
Speaker 1: The Secret of Nancy Drew, the writer purported that the

543
00:29:39,402 --> 00:29:43,202
Speaker 1: quote grandmotherly lady end quote who penned the Nancy Drew

544
00:29:43,242 --> 00:29:47,202
Speaker 1: mystery stories was Harriet Strathemier, and that she with the

545
00:29:47,322 --> 00:29:51,242
Speaker 1: lightly mentioned help before ghostwriters, but mainly she had written

546
00:29:51,282 --> 00:29:54,602
Speaker 1: the series dating back to nineteen thirty. That same story

547
00:29:54,642 --> 00:29:57,242
Speaker 1: claim that in nineteen sixty nine, Harriet was about to

548
00:29:57,282 --> 00:30:00,562
Speaker 1: complete her forty third Nancy Drew book. That was not

549
00:30:00,642 --> 00:30:03,602
Speaker 1: exactly true. The number was true, but not the part

550
00:30:03,642 --> 00:30:06,082
Speaker 1: about her completing the work. But who could question her

551
00:30:06,162 --> 00:30:10,722
Speaker 1: version of events? The ghostwriter contracts made that near impossible. Meanwhile,

552
00:30:10,762 --> 00:30:13,042
Speaker 1: at this same time, the end of the sixties and

553
00:30:13,082 --> 00:30:15,682
Speaker 1: the beginning of the seventies marked a renaissance for the

554
00:30:15,722 --> 00:30:19,402
Speaker 1: teen girl detective. In the culture, Nancy Drew was highlighted

555
00:30:19,442 --> 00:30:23,562
Speaker 1: as an early feminist icon and heroin for multiple generations

556
00:30:23,562 --> 00:30:25,962
Speaker 1: of girls and women. And while the articles of the

557
00:30:26,082 --> 00:30:28,762
Speaker 1: day did credit Harriet as the writer, there was some

558
00:30:28,882 --> 00:30:32,402
Speaker 1: growing skepticism. For example, an article in the Chicago Tribune.

559
00:30:32,762 --> 00:30:35,922
Speaker 1: It praised Harriet, but it also included this line that

560
00:30:36,042 --> 00:30:39,402
Speaker 1: Harriet's secretary quote said she prefers not to answer the

561
00:30:39,482 --> 00:30:42,082
Speaker 1: questions of whether her boss had written every book in

562
00:30:42,122 --> 00:30:45,762
Speaker 1: the series end quote. The answer to that all important

563
00:30:45,802 --> 00:30:49,522
Speaker 1: question was about to be revealed in a very public place,

564
00:30:50,002 --> 00:30:51,562
Speaker 1: specifically in a courtroom.

565
00:30:51,602 --> 00:30:52,202
Speaker 4: In New York.

566
00:30:58,042 --> 00:31:00,722
Speaker 1: There had been early attempts to get at the truth

567
00:31:00,762 --> 00:31:03,762
Speaker 1: of who is the real Caroline Keene In the first

568
00:31:03,802 --> 00:31:07,682
Speaker 1: decade of Nancy Drew's existence. The trade publication Blusher's Weekly

569
00:31:07,802 --> 00:31:11,722
Speaker 1: did the legwork. The subsequent story revealed the actual inner

570
00:31:11,762 --> 00:31:16,202
Speaker 1: workings of the Stratmeier syndicate under Harriet's leadership. There was

571
00:31:16,362 --> 00:31:20,402
Speaker 1: mention of ghostwriters. There was another article by Fortune magazine,

572
00:31:20,402 --> 00:31:22,842
Speaker 1: and it was more of an expose, laying out in

573
00:31:22,962 --> 00:31:26,442
Speaker 1: detail how Edward used uncredited writers to churn out book

574
00:31:26,482 --> 00:31:31,122
Speaker 1: after book. The expose by Fortune provided the undeniable proof

575
00:31:31,402 --> 00:31:35,442
Speaker 1: that no real Carolyn Keene existed, that Nancy Drew, The

576
00:31:35,482 --> 00:31:38,122
Speaker 1: Hardy Boys and all the other book series were the

577
00:31:38,162 --> 00:31:42,442
Speaker 1: product of a small cabal of ghostwriters, and Mildred was

578
00:31:42,562 --> 00:31:46,322
Speaker 1: but one. This is another important fact. Mildred was not

579
00:31:46,442 --> 00:31:49,962
Speaker 1: the only ghostwriter who penned Nancy Drew books, but she

580
00:31:50,162 --> 00:31:53,602
Speaker 1: wrote the vast majority of them. Yet, in nineteen thirty seven,

581
00:31:53,962 --> 00:31:57,482
Speaker 1: for reasons we perhaps can only assume, the Library of

582
00:31:57,562 --> 00:32:01,842
Speaker 1: Congress credited another ghostwriter as the sole author behind the

583
00:32:01,842 --> 00:32:05,602
Speaker 1: pseudonym Carolyn Keene, a man by the name of Walter Kerrig.

584
00:32:06,362 --> 00:32:10,522
Speaker 1: He'd written just three Nancy Drew Mysteries. For many years after,

585
00:32:10,842 --> 00:32:14,642
Speaker 1: this error was often repeated in the press. This confusion

586
00:32:14,762 --> 00:32:19,602
Speaker 1: was particularly irritating to Harriet's Stratamire, and consequently it motivated

587
00:32:19,602 --> 00:32:24,482
Speaker 1: her to erect barriers around the Stratamire Syndicate and its operations.

588
00:32:24,882 --> 00:32:28,882
Speaker 1: As well, she labored to correct the record in her favor.

589
00:32:29,442 --> 00:32:32,522
Speaker 1: Whenever she had the opportunity with the press, Harriet worked

590
00:32:32,562 --> 00:32:36,122
Speaker 1: to construct a new narrative. The story she spun was that,

591
00:32:36,282 --> 00:32:40,202
Speaker 1: despite any talk of ghostwriters, she was the real author

592
00:32:40,282 --> 00:32:44,922
Speaker 1: of Nancy Drew stories. As the years marched on, newspapers

593
00:32:44,922 --> 00:32:49,682
Speaker 1: and magazines began to exclusively tell Harriet's carefully curated story,

594
00:32:49,962 --> 00:32:53,482
Speaker 1: the one where she was the real Carolyn Keene, and

595
00:32:53,562 --> 00:32:57,442
Speaker 1: through it all, Mildred remained quiet. She didn't come forward

596
00:32:57,442 --> 00:33:00,642
Speaker 1: to dispute the narrative at first, and for many years

597
00:33:00,682 --> 00:33:04,082
Speaker 1: decades even things were good. The Nancy Drew books allowed

598
00:33:04,082 --> 00:33:07,562
Speaker 1: the syndicate to survive the Depression, to thrive after, and

599
00:33:07,642 --> 00:33:10,082
Speaker 1: to grow into the home of one of the most

600
00:33:10,082 --> 00:33:14,082
Speaker 1: beloved American characters. As thanks for her hard work and

601
00:33:14,162 --> 00:33:18,242
Speaker 1: her loyalty, Harriet was often generous with Mildred. For instance,

602
00:33:18,362 --> 00:33:21,282
Speaker 1: she'd sent Mildred the extra money while her husband was ill,

603
00:33:21,642 --> 00:33:25,602
Speaker 1: but gestures like that bonus were infrequent, and over time

604
00:33:26,242 --> 00:33:30,002
Speaker 1: tensions crept into their relationship. The two women had developed

605
00:33:30,122 --> 00:33:33,602
Speaker 1: vastly differing ideas of who Nancy Drew was, and as

606
00:33:33,602 --> 00:33:36,362
Speaker 1: the years wore on, the tastes of the day changed,

607
00:33:36,642 --> 00:33:40,762
Speaker 1: the styles and politics followed suit that divide between the

608
00:33:40,802 --> 00:33:44,282
Speaker 1: women and their view of Nancy Drew only grew more obvious.

609
00:33:44,642 --> 00:33:47,042
Speaker 1: Eventually it was as if they were talking about two

610
00:33:47,162 --> 00:33:50,482
Speaker 1: different girls. In the end, it was Harriet who decided

611
00:33:50,482 --> 00:33:53,402
Speaker 1: to cut ties. She and her sister Edna felt that

612
00:33:53,442 --> 00:33:57,842
Speaker 1: Mildred had become argumentative and difficult. The sisters preferred to

613
00:33:57,922 --> 00:34:00,882
Speaker 1: replace Mildred with someone who'd gladly accept the assignment and

614
00:34:00,922 --> 00:34:04,202
Speaker 1: do as instructed and contracted without so much hassle, someone

615
00:34:04,202 --> 00:34:06,882
Speaker 1: who'd likely do it for less money, and, as Harry

616
00:34:07,002 --> 00:34:10,802
Speaker 1: it saw it, with far less headaches. Finally, in the

617
00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:13,882
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, she made it official. After two decades of

618
00:34:13,922 --> 00:34:17,962
Speaker 1: working together and twenty three books, Harriet and her sister

619
00:34:18,082 --> 00:34:22,082
Speaker 1: Edna decided to sever their professional relationship with Mildred when

620
00:34:22,122 --> 00:34:25,922
Speaker 1: they replaced her. They never even wrote to tell her. Instead,

621
00:34:26,362 --> 00:34:32,642
Speaker 1: they ghosted her. The irony is almost comical. Mildred turned

622
00:34:32,682 --> 00:34:35,162
Speaker 1: her back on the Stratamire Syndicate. She went on with

623
00:34:35,202 --> 00:34:37,682
Speaker 1: her life as a newspaper writer. There would be no

624
00:34:37,802 --> 00:34:41,802
Speaker 1: more Nancy Drew for her. Yet, that small indignity and

625
00:34:41,922 --> 00:34:44,922
Speaker 1: the bitter pill of Harriet taking credit for Mildred's work,

626
00:34:45,402 --> 00:34:48,442
Speaker 1: those weren't the only insults that she had to endure.

627
00:34:48,922 --> 00:34:51,522
Speaker 1: Around that same time. In the nineteen fifties, the Stratamire

628
00:34:51,562 --> 00:34:54,922
Speaker 1: Syndicate began a series of revisions of the original Nancy

629
00:34:55,002 --> 00:34:59,602
Speaker 1: Drew books. Times had changed, technologies had changed, Television was

630
00:34:59,642 --> 00:35:03,202
Speaker 1: disrupting everything. Nancy Drew books needed to be updated to

631
00:35:03,242 --> 00:35:07,242
Speaker 1: reflect this. One example, her age was up to eight team.

632
00:35:07,762 --> 00:35:10,642
Speaker 1: Why because it allowed Nancy Drew to drive in all

633
00:35:10,722 --> 00:35:14,202
Speaker 1: fifty states. This was just one of the many changes

634
00:35:14,402 --> 00:35:16,922
Speaker 1: made to reflect the real world of the readers.

635
00:35:18,002 --> 00:35:20,682
Speaker 7: They did need to make the books shorter.

636
00:35:20,802 --> 00:35:23,482
Speaker 6: They were like these books now, you know, children are

637
00:35:23,482 --> 00:35:29,042
Speaker 6: like watching television and a kind of like precursor to

638
00:35:29,082 --> 00:35:32,682
Speaker 6: our current era, Like everything started moving faster and kids

639
00:35:32,682 --> 00:35:35,802
Speaker 6: had less attention, and so the action has to happen

640
00:35:35,882 --> 00:35:39,002
Speaker 6: much faster, Like we can't have these sort of wandering

641
00:35:39,082 --> 00:35:40,442
Speaker 6: byways down.

642
00:35:40,242 --> 00:35:43,282
Speaker 7: The dark road with the.

643
00:35:42,722 --> 00:35:45,762
Speaker 6: Large spooky trees overhanging it as the rain begins, you know,

644
00:35:45,882 --> 00:35:48,282
Speaker 6: and all that stuff, that atmospheric stuff that made the

645
00:35:48,322 --> 00:35:49,122
Speaker 6: book so great.

646
00:35:50,442 --> 00:35:53,042
Speaker 1: There were also the vast social changes developing in the

647
00:35:53,122 --> 00:35:57,042
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, namely the civil rights movement and the sprouting

648
00:35:57,082 --> 00:36:01,362
Speaker 1: seeds of feminism. These social changes also pushed the Stratumier

649
00:36:01,442 --> 00:36:05,082
Speaker 1: Syndicate's revisions of some characters and scenes in the Nancy

650
00:36:05,162 --> 00:36:08,362
Speaker 1: Drew books, especially the carecharacters, who were rendered as rather

651
00:36:08,562 --> 00:36:13,042
Speaker 1: racist stereotypes of the times. Harriet had labored diligently to

652
00:36:13,122 --> 00:36:17,722
Speaker 1: make Nancy Drew less independent and more like the new

653
00:36:17,882 --> 00:36:22,282
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties ideas of femininity. It was Nancy Drew as

654
00:36:22,322 --> 00:36:23,522
Speaker 1: a young June Cleaver.

655
00:36:24,482 --> 00:36:29,562
Speaker 8: She made Nancy much more wishy, washy and like toned

656
00:36:29,602 --> 00:36:35,002
Speaker 8: down because the readers could identify with a more wishy

657
00:36:35,162 --> 00:36:38,362
Speaker 8: washy person and they could you know, make themselves, you know,

658
00:36:38,402 --> 00:36:39,482
Speaker 8: fitting into that role.

659
00:36:40,122 --> 00:36:43,602
Speaker 1: Harriet rewrote the series to her taste. Doing those revisions

660
00:36:43,642 --> 00:36:47,042
Speaker 1: gave Harriet Stratemeyer the rare opportunity to try her hand

661
00:36:47,162 --> 00:36:50,402
Speaker 1: at writing, while she also erased and forever changed the

662
00:36:50,442 --> 00:36:53,522
Speaker 1: work of Mildred. This gave her more of a feeling

663
00:36:53,522 --> 00:36:57,202
Speaker 1: that she'd actually written the books, since now technically she had,

664
00:36:57,402 --> 00:37:00,242
Speaker 1: even if it was just a rewrite of the ghostwriter's words.

665
00:37:00,762 --> 00:37:03,842
Speaker 8: First of all, she said that, well, her father had

666
00:37:03,842 --> 00:37:07,122
Speaker 8: written the first three Nancy Drew books, and when he died,

667
00:37:07,282 --> 00:37:10,562
Speaker 8: she had found them all and she revised them and

668
00:37:10,602 --> 00:37:14,202
Speaker 8: sold them to the publisher. But then she changed the stories.

669
00:37:14,442 --> 00:37:17,922
Speaker 8: Eventually she took credit for having written them all herself.

670
00:37:19,122 --> 00:37:21,522
Speaker 1: If Harriet wanted to claim credit for the ghostwriter's work,

671
00:37:21,522 --> 00:37:24,122
Speaker 1: there was little they could do to stop her. All

672
00:37:24,162 --> 00:37:27,602
Speaker 1: Mildred could do was watch wordlessly as her beloved creation

673
00:37:27,842 --> 00:37:32,562
Speaker 1: morphed into someone unrecognizable to her. But while Mildred couldn't

674
00:37:32,562 --> 00:37:36,642
Speaker 1: say anything publicly, that certainly didn't stop Jeff. Harriet's claims

675
00:37:36,682 --> 00:37:40,002
Speaker 1: on Mildred's legacy bothered him. He decided he'd do something

676
00:37:40,042 --> 00:37:42,122
Speaker 1: about it. He wanted the rest of the world to

677
00:37:42,162 --> 00:37:45,082
Speaker 1: know about his friend Mildred. To Jeff, this was an

678
00:37:45,122 --> 00:37:48,562
Speaker 1: act of justice, just like something Nancy Drew would do.

679
00:37:49,602 --> 00:37:53,082
Speaker 8: It just wasn't fair that somebody else was taking credit

680
00:37:53,402 --> 00:37:57,882
Speaker 8: for somebody else's work. I just thought that, well, I

681
00:37:58,002 --> 00:38:00,002
Speaker 8: have a mission, and I can do this.

682
00:38:01,482 --> 00:38:05,082
Speaker 1: Jeff wrote articles, He wrote a journal paper. He pushed

683
00:38:05,162 --> 00:38:08,162
Speaker 1: newspapers to dig into the story and discover the truth.

684
00:38:08,442 --> 00:38:11,882
Speaker 1: By the nineteen seventies, the public narrative began to shift.

685
00:38:12,162 --> 00:38:16,162
Speaker 1: One newspaper story carried the title quote the Artful ways

686
00:38:16,242 --> 00:38:20,322
Speaker 1: of Millie Nancy Drew was her brainchild end quote. That

687
00:38:20,442 --> 00:38:23,962
Speaker 1: story detailed how Mildred was quote afraid any publicity will

688
00:38:24,002 --> 00:38:25,762
Speaker 1: get her in touch with Stradamerson.

689
00:38:26,242 --> 00:38:26,562
Speaker 4: Close.

690
00:38:26,642 --> 00:38:29,922
Speaker 1: Quote in that same article, Mildred confided.

691
00:38:29,922 --> 00:38:33,282
Speaker 2: You say anything that hurts sales, and they'll be right

692
00:38:33,442 --> 00:38:34,442
Speaker 2: on my neck.

693
00:38:35,482 --> 00:38:38,682
Speaker 1: This ongoing correcting of the record was a similar motivation

694
00:38:38,762 --> 00:38:42,802
Speaker 1: for Melanie Rayhack to write her book Girl Sleuth, Nancy

695
00:38:42,882 --> 00:38:46,282
Speaker 1: Drew and the women who created her. She also wanted

696
00:38:46,282 --> 00:38:48,562
Speaker 1: to put facts down on paper for all to see,

697
00:38:48,602 --> 00:38:50,482
Speaker 1: so that they could make up their minds about who

698
00:38:50,642 --> 00:38:54,402
Speaker 1: is the real Carolyn Keene. Eventually, as with all things,

699
00:38:54,642 --> 00:38:58,322
Speaker 1: the truth would went out. Back when Melanie Rayhack first

700
00:38:58,322 --> 00:39:01,442
Speaker 1: stepped inside the University of Iowa's library to pore over

701
00:39:01,482 --> 00:39:04,762
Speaker 1: the archive of Mildred's papers, she'd come to track down

702
00:39:04,882 --> 00:39:08,482
Speaker 1: a pioneering woman. What she disa discovered was not a mystery,

703
00:39:08,482 --> 00:39:12,522
Speaker 1: but confirmation that Mildred was a badass of mid century America.

704
00:39:13,402 --> 00:39:18,242
Speaker 6: All of Nancy's sort of intrepid intelligence comes from Mildred,

705
00:39:18,602 --> 00:39:21,442
Speaker 6: and I think that's why Edward had her picked out

706
00:39:21,442 --> 00:39:22,282
Speaker 6: to write the series.

707
00:39:22,362 --> 00:39:24,802
Speaker 7: I mean he knew. He was like, this is what this.

708
00:39:24,842 --> 00:39:27,362
Speaker 6: Character is supposed to be, and this is a person

709
00:39:27,442 --> 00:39:30,282
Speaker 6: who is naturally going to be able to put that

710
00:39:30,642 --> 00:39:34,122
Speaker 6: quality into her, you know, and all this sort of athletic.

711
00:39:33,762 --> 00:39:35,122
Speaker 7: Stuff and the physical stuff.

712
00:39:35,162 --> 00:39:38,562
Speaker 6: So Mildred was a diver, I mean, she was athletic,

713
00:39:38,882 --> 00:39:41,602
Speaker 6: so she put all that stuff into Nancy too. You know,

714
00:39:41,602 --> 00:39:43,842
Speaker 6: there's all kinds of like scrape where she's dumped out

715
00:39:43,882 --> 00:39:45,802
Speaker 6: of a boat in the middle of the lake and

716
00:39:45,842 --> 00:39:46,642
Speaker 6: she's swimming.

717
00:39:47,002 --> 00:39:49,562
Speaker 7: They were thrilling for readers at the time.

718
00:39:49,402 --> 00:39:54,762
Speaker 6: To see this teenage girl performing also these physical acts

719
00:39:54,762 --> 00:39:56,522
Speaker 6: which now we think of as like, oh yeah, sure,

720
00:39:56,562 --> 00:39:59,002
Speaker 6: swimming whatever, but you know, kind of a big deal.

721
00:39:59,082 --> 00:40:01,962
Speaker 6: So Mildred brought all of that to Nancy.

722
00:40:02,522 --> 00:40:05,762
Speaker 1: She had put her heart and soul into Nancy. And

723
00:40:05,842 --> 00:40:09,722
Speaker 1: so over time, Harriet's rewrites would come to bother Mildred

724
00:40:10,242 --> 00:40:13,522
Speaker 1: to Melanie. That tension between Harriet and Mildred's conceptions of

725
00:40:13,642 --> 00:40:16,202
Speaker 1: Nancy Drew. It wasn't so easy to sort.

726
00:40:15,922 --> 00:40:19,802
Speaker 6: Out I saw from both women's standpoints at that point, right.

727
00:40:19,842 --> 00:40:23,282
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it's indisputable that Mildred really helped

728
00:40:24,042 --> 00:40:26,842
Speaker 6: create her as the sort of iconic character that we

729
00:40:26,882 --> 00:40:30,002
Speaker 6: all remember, and really put a lot of herself into

730
00:40:30,002 --> 00:40:33,082
Speaker 6: the character. I think where I had a lot more

731
00:40:33,602 --> 00:40:37,522
Speaker 6: sympathy for Harriet than I originally thought I would was that,

732
00:40:37,602 --> 00:40:39,682
Speaker 6: you know, without her, we wouldn't have had Nancy Drew,

733
00:40:39,802 --> 00:40:41,842
Speaker 6: like if they had not taken over the company, if

734
00:40:41,842 --> 00:40:43,082
Speaker 6: they had just let it fall apart.

735
00:40:43,962 --> 00:40:46,802
Speaker 1: Eventually, life did offer up a way to parse the

736
00:40:46,802 --> 00:40:50,362
Speaker 1: two women's contributions and to determine who was responsible for

737
00:40:50,402 --> 00:40:54,842
Speaker 1: the enduring popularity of Nancy Drew. In nineteen eighty, the

738
00:40:54,882 --> 00:40:58,922
Speaker 1: Stratamier Syndicate decided to part ways with their long term publisher,

739
00:40:58,962 --> 00:41:02,682
Speaker 1: across It and Dunlap. This action would drag the truth

740
00:41:02,762 --> 00:41:06,322
Speaker 1: into the light of a courtroom for all to see.

741
00:41:06,402 --> 00:41:09,482
Speaker 1: After Harry announced her plans to switch publishers to Simon

742
00:41:09,522 --> 00:41:12,682
Speaker 1: and Schuster, Grossid and Dunlap came forward to protest the

743
00:41:12,722 --> 00:41:15,562
Speaker 1: sale and sued them both for one hundred and fifty

744
00:41:15,682 --> 00:41:19,202
Speaker 1: million dollars. Grossid and Dunlap did not want to lose

745
00:41:19,242 --> 00:41:21,322
Speaker 1: their golden goose, and they were willing to fight in

746
00:41:21,402 --> 00:41:25,162
Speaker 1: court to prevent the sale. Their lawyers alleged that there

747
00:41:25,162 --> 00:41:29,082
Speaker 1: were financial improprieties, for instance the royalties that should have

748
00:41:29,082 --> 00:41:32,642
Speaker 1: been paid to the firm's many ghostwriters. To help make

749
00:41:32,682 --> 00:41:37,762
Speaker 1: their case, Grosset and Dunlap flew in a very special witness, Mildred.

750
00:41:37,922 --> 00:41:40,882
Speaker 1: She was set to testify about how she'd not received

751
00:41:40,962 --> 00:41:44,802
Speaker 1: proper royalties from the syndicate, which ultimately was the sole

752
00:41:44,882 --> 00:41:48,242
Speaker 1: credit she did receive for her work the money. The

753
00:41:48,322 --> 00:41:51,482
Speaker 1: stage was now set. The two women would finally be

754
00:41:51,722 --> 00:41:54,802
Speaker 1: face to face with a judge and jury to weigh

755
00:41:54,882 --> 00:41:58,442
Speaker 1: the truth and decide their fates. At the time, Harriet

756
00:41:58,482 --> 00:42:01,362
Speaker 1: was eighty seven years old and not in good health.

757
00:42:01,802 --> 00:42:05,842
Speaker 1: Mildred was seventy four and still in fighting shape. Jeff

758
00:42:05,922 --> 00:42:07,642
Speaker 1: was there too to support his friend.

759
00:42:07,962 --> 00:42:10,642
Speaker 8: She was wearing a powder blue pantsuit and had a

760
00:42:10,642 --> 00:42:13,682
Speaker 8: black shoulder bag. She had her handler with her, you know,

761
00:42:13,722 --> 00:42:17,242
Speaker 8: somebody driving her around, whose name was Dick Molina. He

762
00:42:17,282 --> 00:42:22,162
Speaker 8: was an attorney. And when we arrived, Harriet was already

763
00:42:22,202 --> 00:42:26,762
Speaker 8: there and Dick Molina introduced Millie to Harriet.

764
00:42:27,082 --> 00:42:30,802
Speaker 1: As Melanie Rayhak recorded in her book, when Harriet saw Mildred,

765
00:42:30,922 --> 00:42:32,802
Speaker 1: she said to her, just one.

766
00:42:32,562 --> 00:42:34,682
Speaker 7: Thing, Arthorn, you were dead.

767
00:42:35,802 --> 00:42:39,642
Speaker 1: That's ice cold. That's cinema in fact. A moment like

768
00:42:39,722 --> 00:42:43,642
Speaker 1: that is why fact will always beat fiction. Inside that

769
00:42:43,682 --> 00:42:46,962
Speaker 1: New York courtroom, the two women met and through sworn testimony,

770
00:42:47,002 --> 00:42:50,962
Speaker 1: they battled slyly, fighting over the legacy of Nancy Drew.

771
00:42:51,202 --> 00:42:53,322
Speaker 1: Both women rose to the occasion.

772
00:42:54,162 --> 00:42:58,202
Speaker 6: It's like they both have total transference. They both basically

773
00:42:58,242 --> 00:43:01,762
Speaker 6: speak as though they are Nancy Drew, like I created Nancy.

774
00:43:01,882 --> 00:43:02,282
Speaker 4: She is me.

775
00:43:02,842 --> 00:43:06,082
Speaker 6: I mean, they're elderly by this point, and they're in

776
00:43:06,162 --> 00:43:12,442
Speaker 6: this courtroom defending their rights to this character that they

777
00:43:12,642 --> 00:43:14,242
Speaker 6: became involved with as young women.

778
00:43:14,922 --> 00:43:19,122
Speaker 1: Mildred showed up at court dressed in Nancy Drew's iconic

779
00:43:19,202 --> 00:43:22,522
Speaker 1: powder blue color. She attempted to make her points clear

780
00:43:22,802 --> 00:43:25,802
Speaker 1: as she distinguished the two Nancys. And when she says,

781
00:43:25,842 --> 00:43:29,242
Speaker 1: missus Adams, this is, of course, Harriet Strathmier Adams.

782
00:43:29,882 --> 00:43:33,882
Speaker 2: My Nancy would not be Missus Adams. Nancy, Missus Adams,

783
00:43:34,002 --> 00:43:37,362
Speaker 2: was an entirely different person. She was more cultured, and

784
00:43:37,402 --> 00:43:40,922
Speaker 2: she was more refined. I was probably a rough and

785
00:43:40,962 --> 00:43:43,482
Speaker 2: tumble newspaper person who had to earn a living, and

786
00:43:43,682 --> 00:43:46,682
Speaker 2: I was out in the world. That was my type

787
00:43:46,682 --> 00:43:49,362
Speaker 2: of Nancy. Nancy was making her way in life and

788
00:43:49,482 --> 00:43:52,722
Speaker 2: trying to compete and have fun. We just had two

789
00:43:52,762 --> 00:43:53,882
Speaker 2: different kinds of Nancies.

790
00:43:55,042 --> 00:43:57,202
Speaker 1: Mildred took her a moment on the stand to claim

791
00:43:57,242 --> 00:43:58,522
Speaker 1: her credit for herself.

792
00:43:59,122 --> 00:44:02,122
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not angry at them. I don't resent anything.

793
00:44:02,882 --> 00:44:05,722
Speaker 2: I think if there are misstatements of fact, they should

794
00:44:05,722 --> 00:44:08,882
Speaker 2: be corrected, because when a statement is made wrong and

795
00:44:09,002 --> 00:44:14,042
Speaker 2: is repeated over and over and over again, it becomes

796
00:44:14,122 --> 00:44:17,722
Speaker 2: firmly entrenched in the mind of the reading public as truth.

797
00:44:19,362 --> 00:44:21,882
Speaker 1: Mildred didn't come to court to fight over money from

798
00:44:21,922 --> 00:44:25,442
Speaker 1: the sale of the company. Nope. She just wanted the

799
00:44:25,482 --> 00:44:28,602
Speaker 1: world to know she had given them Nancy Drew. Mildred

800
00:44:28,722 --> 00:44:32,002
Speaker 1: wanted the truth to be known. When Harriet Stratamier took

801
00:44:32,042 --> 00:44:35,242
Speaker 1: the witness stand in the trial, she made quite a scene.

802
00:44:35,402 --> 00:44:38,882
Speaker 1: She testified for five days. At one point she got

803
00:44:38,922 --> 00:44:41,282
Speaker 1: so worked up she even fell out of her chair

804
00:44:41,322 --> 00:44:42,642
Speaker 1: and out of the witness.

805
00:44:42,322 --> 00:44:45,722
Speaker 4: Stand order in the court.

806
00:44:46,042 --> 00:44:48,722
Speaker 1: But through it all she stuck to her story.

807
00:44:49,202 --> 00:44:51,522
Speaker 8: A friend of mine who was the head of Juvenile

808
00:44:51,842 --> 00:44:54,922
Speaker 8: Literature division at the Library of Congress. At one point

809
00:44:54,962 --> 00:44:57,402
Speaker 8: she said of Harriet, she's gone off with the fairies.

810
00:44:57,522 --> 00:45:00,242
Speaker 8: I mean, she was believing her own hype that she

811
00:45:00,322 --> 00:45:02,082
Speaker 8: had written all these books herself.

812
00:45:02,922 --> 00:45:05,522
Speaker 1: Hearing the account of the courtroom scenes, it feels like

813
00:45:05,642 --> 00:45:10,122
Speaker 1: poetic justice from Mildred and the other ghostwriters. The enduring

814
00:45:10,162 --> 00:45:14,082
Speaker 1: mystery was finally revealed and confirmed in a courtroom. Nancy

815
00:45:14,162 --> 00:45:18,042
Speaker 1: Drew had been written by Mildred and other ghostwriters based

816
00:45:18,082 --> 00:45:21,122
Speaker 1: off of outlines supplied first by Edward Stratemeyer and later

817
00:45:21,482 --> 00:45:25,162
Speaker 1: his daughter Harriet, who'd also revised the books after they'd

818
00:45:25,202 --> 00:45:29,282
Speaker 1: been published. Outside the courtroom, it felt like Mildred had won.

819
00:45:29,322 --> 00:45:32,202
Speaker 1: The truth was now on the public record. People would

820
00:45:32,362 --> 00:45:35,522
Speaker 1: know Mildred had written the books that first made them

821
00:45:35,562 --> 00:45:39,042
Speaker 1: fall in love with Nancy Drew, while Harriet had merely

822
00:45:39,122 --> 00:45:43,682
Speaker 1: rewritten them. However, inside the courtroom it was Harriet and

823
00:45:43,762 --> 00:45:46,922
Speaker 1: Simon and Schuster who won the lawsuit. The sale of

824
00:45:46,962 --> 00:45:49,442
Speaker 1: the book rights could go forward, and the publisher did

825
00:45:49,482 --> 00:45:52,002
Speaker 1: not have to pay Grosset and Dunlap for any of

826
00:45:52,042 --> 00:45:56,682
Speaker 1: the ghostwriters any additional money. Sometimes justice and truth are

827
00:45:56,762 --> 00:45:59,562
Speaker 1: not the same thing as any good mystery writer will

828
00:45:59,562 --> 00:46:02,482
Speaker 1: tell you. So what was it like for Jeff to

829
00:46:02,562 --> 00:46:05,042
Speaker 1: witness his friend Mildred finally be acknowledged.

830
00:46:07,002 --> 00:46:12,082
Speaker 8: Well, let's just say I'm very proud, because it was

831
00:46:12,122 --> 00:46:15,282
Speaker 8: so important for her to get, you know, the fair

832
00:46:15,442 --> 00:46:18,682
Speaker 8: credits that she deserved for so much. We were, you know,

833
00:46:18,762 --> 00:46:21,922
Speaker 8: without being related, We were really family and we had

834
00:46:22,282 --> 00:46:26,002
Speaker 8: the most gotten Going to start cheering up, we had

835
00:46:26,042 --> 00:46:30,442
Speaker 8: the most wonderful, loving relationship that was unlike any that

836
00:46:30,482 --> 00:46:31,722
Speaker 8: I had had with anybody.

837
00:46:32,202 --> 00:46:34,962
Speaker 1: For Melanie Rayhak, she also got to come full circle

838
00:46:35,162 --> 00:46:38,282
Speaker 1: emotionally as well. In writing her book on Nancy and

839
00:46:38,322 --> 00:46:40,882
Speaker 1: the women who created her. She got to live as

840
00:46:40,922 --> 00:46:45,322
Speaker 1: an amateur literary detective inspired by her girlhood hero as

841
00:46:45,322 --> 00:46:48,282
Speaker 1: she chased down a real life mystery. It made her

842
00:46:48,282 --> 00:46:51,402
Speaker 1: feel more connected to the women at the heart of

843
00:46:51,442 --> 00:46:53,122
Speaker 1: this story, both women.

844
00:46:53,802 --> 00:46:59,802
Speaker 6: Writing this book gave me really a new appreciation of

845
00:46:59,962 --> 00:47:03,722
Speaker 6: what all the generations of women who came before me.

846
00:47:04,602 --> 00:47:06,202
Speaker 7: Had gone through.

847
00:47:07,002 --> 00:47:09,722
Speaker 6: That I can do what I do in all kinds

848
00:47:09,722 --> 00:47:13,442
Speaker 6: of ways as a parent and as a writer just

849
00:47:13,642 --> 00:47:15,722
Speaker 6: made me very It made me very grateful in a

850
00:47:15,722 --> 00:47:18,442
Speaker 6: way that I had not been. There's a lot of

851
00:47:18,842 --> 00:47:21,442
Speaker 6: warring in the Nancy Drew world, and people tend to

852
00:47:21,442 --> 00:47:24,162
Speaker 6: take a side are you. Are you on the Mildred

853
00:47:24,162 --> 00:47:27,442
Speaker 6: side or the Harriet side? And I think where I

854
00:47:27,562 --> 00:47:30,802
Speaker 6: tried to land and my book is in the middle.

855
00:47:30,842 --> 00:47:35,282
Speaker 6: That it's important to recognize what each of them did,

856
00:47:35,322 --> 00:47:39,602
Speaker 6: which was not the same thing, but equally valuable or

857
00:47:39,682 --> 00:47:43,922
Speaker 6: equally necessary, because without them we wouldn't have her.

858
00:47:46,122 --> 00:47:48,882
Speaker 1: Eventually, even Mildred grew a little sick of all the

859
00:47:48,922 --> 00:47:51,602
Speaker 1: attention on her and the teen girl detective. As The

860
00:47:51,642 --> 00:47:54,482
Speaker 1: New York Times quoted in her obituary, she'd once told

861
00:47:54,482 --> 00:47:56,522
Speaker 1: a Times report her quote.

862
00:47:56,282 --> 00:47:59,722
Speaker 2: I'm so sick of Nancy Drew i could vomit.

863
00:48:00,242 --> 00:48:02,962
Speaker 1: Which this seems sensible considering all that she'd been through

864
00:48:03,002 --> 00:48:06,442
Speaker 1: over the decades. In the end, though, we'll give Mildred

865
00:48:06,482 --> 00:48:10,522
Speaker 1: the final word on Nancy Drew a kinder word. Mildred

866
00:48:10,562 --> 00:48:13,282
Speaker 1: once told the San Francisco newspaper that while Nancy Drew

867
00:48:13,602 --> 00:48:17,002
Speaker 1: may have seemed a lot like Mildred, it was actually

868
00:48:17,202 --> 00:48:18,722
Speaker 1: the reverse quote.

869
00:48:19,202 --> 00:48:22,122
Speaker 2: I didn't consciously make her like myself. I made her

870
00:48:22,162 --> 00:48:25,922
Speaker 2: good looking, smart and a perfectionist. I made her a

871
00:48:26,002 --> 00:48:28,402
Speaker 2: concept of the girl I'd like to be.

872
00:48:33,562 --> 00:48:34,962
Speaker 4: So, Zaren Dana.

873
00:48:35,122 --> 00:48:38,602
Speaker 5: There were certain book series that I was introduced to

874
00:48:38,682 --> 00:48:41,162
Speaker 5: as a kid that now I know we're part of

875
00:48:41,202 --> 00:48:42,562
Speaker 5: the Stratameier syndicate.

876
00:48:42,682 --> 00:48:44,402
Speaker 4: The Bobbsey Twins.

877
00:48:44,082 --> 00:48:48,122
Speaker 5: The Happy Hollisters, Pardy Boys, Yeah, the Hardy Boys, and

878
00:48:48,202 --> 00:48:52,402
Speaker 5: Nancy Drew though, have somehow remained in the zeitgeist far.

879
00:48:52,202 --> 00:48:54,202
Speaker 4: Longer than all these other ones.

880
00:48:54,562 --> 00:48:56,282
Speaker 3: What do you think is it about Nancy Drew that

881
00:48:56,282 --> 00:48:57,482
Speaker 3: people keep coming back to?

882
00:48:57,962 --> 00:49:00,802
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, having just you know, done all this

883
00:49:00,882 --> 00:49:03,002
Speaker 1: research about her and her appeal and listening to a

884
00:49:03,002 --> 00:49:04,882
Speaker 1: lot of people have like formed their opinions about it.

885
00:49:05,282 --> 00:49:09,802
Speaker 1: There is this irresistible qualit about a girl who is defying,

886
00:49:10,042 --> 00:49:11,962
Speaker 1: not you know, like in an aggressive way, but just

887
00:49:12,002 --> 00:49:15,442
Speaker 1: defying all of the expectations of her time period, in

888
00:49:15,442 --> 00:49:19,042
Speaker 1: particular of girlhood. And so she's just out there being adventurous.

889
00:49:19,042 --> 00:49:21,802
Speaker 1: She's carrying guns, she's driving her own car. She's just

890
00:49:21,802 --> 00:49:24,962
Speaker 1: like downright cool, but not in an attitude per se,

891
00:49:25,002 --> 00:49:26,962
Speaker 1: but in her actions, you know, and everybody was just

892
00:49:26,962 --> 00:49:28,642
Speaker 1: so impressed with her. You're just like, I want to

893
00:49:28,682 --> 00:49:29,442
Speaker 1: be like that girl.

894
00:49:29,802 --> 00:49:32,602
Speaker 3: I love a mystery book. I read a lot of

895
00:49:32,642 --> 00:49:35,242
Speaker 3: mystery which is why it's so baffling that I skipped

896
00:49:35,282 --> 00:49:38,282
Speaker 3: over Nancy Dry For some reason, I loved when I

897
00:49:38,322 --> 00:49:40,922
Speaker 3: was a kid, cam Jansen, did you ever read those books?

898
00:49:41,282 --> 00:49:43,682
Speaker 3: This is like our generational divide. It was a girl,

899
00:49:43,722 --> 00:49:46,002
Speaker 3: like a very plucky girl, solving mysteries because she had

900
00:49:46,002 --> 00:49:49,522
Speaker 3: a photographic memory. Ooh, I love it, which I'm like,

901
00:49:49,682 --> 00:49:52,722
Speaker 3: give us that you know network for ce Durrel.

902
00:49:53,482 --> 00:49:56,362
Speaker 5: I can remember being in fifth grade. We had something

903
00:49:56,402 --> 00:49:58,842
Speaker 5: called the book chain, where anytime you read a book

904
00:49:58,882 --> 00:50:00,802
Speaker 5: you got to write the name of the book and

905
00:50:00,842 --> 00:50:03,802
Speaker 5: the author, make a little construction paper.

906
00:50:04,482 --> 00:50:06,322
Speaker 4: Ring and put it on the chain.

907
00:50:07,082 --> 00:50:10,202
Speaker 5: And we came back from from probably Christmas break, and

908
00:50:10,242 --> 00:50:14,922
Speaker 5: I'd read nine Nancy Drew and Nancy Drew Slash Hardy

909
00:50:14,962 --> 00:50:17,922
Speaker 5: Boys and Hardy Boys books like this was my wheelhouse

910
00:50:17,922 --> 00:50:20,522
Speaker 5: for a while. I was so proud, like I was

911
00:50:20,562 --> 00:50:23,722
Speaker 5: going to walk in here with so much construction paper.

912
00:50:23,762 --> 00:50:25,362
Speaker 4: It was going to be like an art class me

913
00:50:25,922 --> 00:50:26,762
Speaker 4: cutting this up.

914
00:50:27,442 --> 00:50:30,242
Speaker 5: And I made all my nine rings and I went

915
00:50:30,282 --> 00:50:33,682
Speaker 5: to put them on the chain. My teacher said, Jason,

916
00:50:33,722 --> 00:50:36,642
Speaker 5: you really need to diversify your reading. She was a

917
00:50:36,682 --> 00:50:40,682
Speaker 5: spot on, totally right, but that stuck with me. Like,

918
00:50:40,682 --> 00:50:45,562
Speaker 5: all right, don't get too cocky walking into these reading competitions.

919
00:50:45,762 --> 00:50:48,322
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this summer reading competition. If you read

920
00:50:48,322 --> 00:50:50,482
Speaker 1: so much, I'm sure you guys are both readers like

921
00:50:50,522 --> 00:50:52,842
Speaker 1: I was, where you would come back to people like

922
00:50:52,882 --> 00:50:55,362
Speaker 1: the teacher, the librarian and they would not believe your list.

923
00:50:55,402 --> 00:50:58,242
Speaker 1: They're like, come on, did you really read all these books?

924
00:50:59,522 --> 00:51:01,082
Speaker 3: I was one of those kids. I was like the

925
00:51:01,122 --> 00:51:04,042
Speaker 3: annoying kid. He threw off the reading curve totally.

926
00:51:04,522 --> 00:51:06,242
Speaker 4: It worked. Look where it got you today.

927
00:51:07,042 --> 00:51:09,802
Speaker 5: Casting, No, you don't know if this could be a

928
00:51:09,882 --> 00:51:11,122
Speaker 5: movie's Aaron, what do you got?

929
00:51:11,642 --> 00:51:13,842
Speaker 1: Okay? I thought about this one right, and I did

930
00:51:13,882 --> 00:51:17,642
Speaker 1: it two ways. I thought modern casting and then timeless casting. Right,

931
00:51:17,882 --> 00:51:21,402
Speaker 1: So modern casting, imagine Mildred wort Is played by Kathy

932
00:51:21,482 --> 00:51:25,642
Speaker 1: Bates and Harriet Stratamyer Adams She's played by Jane Fonda,

933
00:51:26,162 --> 00:51:29,162
Speaker 1: and then you have Edward Stratamyer played by Paul Giamatti.

934
00:51:30,202 --> 00:51:32,562
Speaker 1: Now timeless casting.

935
00:51:32,242 --> 00:51:36,522
Speaker 3: Right, Paul Giamatti, As.

936
00:51:35,682 --> 00:51:38,322
Speaker 1: I know, I struggled on that one. I'll freely admit it.

937
00:51:38,522 --> 00:51:40,442
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, but I just kind

938
00:51:40,442 --> 00:51:42,922
Speaker 1: of liked he had like an honesty and like when

939
00:51:42,962 --> 00:51:45,242
Speaker 1: he played John Adams. He has this decency that just

940
00:51:45,282 --> 00:51:47,722
Speaker 1: emotes from him. But either way, I may not be

941
00:51:47,722 --> 00:51:50,562
Speaker 1: spot on in that call. But say, for timeless one

942
00:51:50,602 --> 00:51:55,922
Speaker 1: Mildred Wort, how about Shirley Maclain, Harriet Stratamyer Adams as

943
00:51:56,162 --> 00:51:59,882
Speaker 1: Catherine Hepburn, and Edward Stratimyer as Claude Rains.

944
00:52:00,202 --> 00:52:02,802
Speaker 4: Oh how's that?

945
00:52:02,922 --> 00:52:04,922
Speaker 3: I mean, you're really good at this.

946
00:52:04,922 --> 00:52:07,802
Speaker 5: This is just your segment from now because no one

947
00:52:07,882 --> 00:52:08,802
Speaker 5: can compete with this.

948
00:52:08,922 --> 00:52:10,322
Speaker 4: I love the Giamati.

949
00:52:10,842 --> 00:52:14,002
Speaker 5: You could have a big, big name actor there who

950
00:52:14,642 --> 00:52:16,762
Speaker 5: dies in the first ten minutes and then.

951
00:52:17,042 --> 00:52:20,002
Speaker 3: Yeah it is you gotta have someone with integrity, someone

952
00:52:20,082 --> 00:52:21,762
Speaker 3: with some real gravitas.

953
00:52:21,282 --> 00:52:23,522
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's because it feels like he's a decent guy.

954
00:52:23,562 --> 00:52:25,562
Speaker 1: You don't want him to seem like just like a businessman,

955
00:52:25,722 --> 00:52:28,122
Speaker 1: you know. So, yeah, did you guys have a very

956
00:52:28,122 --> 00:52:30,882
Speaker 1: special character from this one? Did anyone jump out for you?

957
00:52:31,242 --> 00:52:31,842
Speaker 2: Oh?

958
00:52:31,882 --> 00:52:34,722
Speaker 1: I like Jeff Lapan, the amateur detective.

959
00:52:34,242 --> 00:52:34,442
Speaker 4: You know?

960
00:52:34,762 --> 00:52:37,722
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I love an amateur detective showing up

961
00:52:37,762 --> 00:52:39,842
Speaker 3: in a Nancy Jerry story the right.

962
00:52:40,202 --> 00:52:43,082
Speaker 1: How about also as writers, I want for every writer

963
00:52:43,202 --> 00:52:45,962
Speaker 1: for them to have a like, basically a champion, like

964
00:52:46,042 --> 00:52:48,202
Speaker 1: Jeff who just goes out there and defends them, defends

965
00:52:48,242 --> 00:52:51,442
Speaker 1: their work, fights the publishing industry. I think, especially women

966
00:52:51,482 --> 00:52:54,082
Speaker 1: writers in particular, I think they all deserve at least

967
00:52:54,082 --> 00:52:55,002
Speaker 1: one Jeffrey Laypan.

968
00:52:55,322 --> 00:52:58,002
Speaker 5: One of the things that keeps coming up again and

969
00:52:58,042 --> 00:53:01,442
Speaker 5: again on these episodes, even episodes that have very little

970
00:53:01,482 --> 00:53:05,122
Speaker 5: to do with each other topics, is the idea of

971
00:53:05,162 --> 00:53:09,042
Speaker 5: people's motivations, like why what was so important for Jeff

972
00:53:09,122 --> 00:53:11,882
Speaker 5: to get involved in this story? And we see this

973
00:53:12,042 --> 00:53:16,322
Speaker 5: in earlier episodes with the people trying to recapture the

974
00:53:16,322 --> 00:53:18,962
Speaker 5: moon rocks and the people trying to prove the Pledge

975
00:53:18,962 --> 00:53:22,322
Speaker 5: of Allegiance is not written by who you think it is.

976
00:53:22,602 --> 00:53:26,322
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's just what life is. Find your thing,

977
00:53:26,482 --> 00:53:28,042
Speaker 4: go be obsessed with something.

978
00:53:28,202 --> 00:53:30,602
Speaker 5: I don't know what it's going to be for the

979
00:53:30,642 --> 00:53:32,562
Speaker 5: three of us, but we will find it by the

980
00:53:32,682 --> 00:53:34,522
Speaker 5: end of the series and let those enrich us.

981
00:53:35,402 --> 00:53:37,162
Speaker 3: So I mentioned it at the start of the show,

982
00:53:37,282 --> 00:53:40,522
Speaker 3: but the team here at Very Special Episodes is celebrating

983
00:53:40,562 --> 00:53:43,402
Speaker 3: International Women's Day this week, and so if you're looking

984
00:53:43,402 --> 00:53:46,802
Speaker 3: for more programming honoring the incredible women at the network

985
00:53:46,842 --> 00:53:51,402
Speaker 3: and worldwide, head over to iHeart Podcasts. International Women's Day

986
00:53:51,402 --> 00:53:55,482
Speaker 3: feed by searching Women take the Mic. Wherever you look

987
00:53:55,522 --> 00:53:59,282
Speaker 3: for podcasts, We're featured along shows like The Psychology of

988
00:53:59,282 --> 00:54:03,562
Speaker 3: Your Twenties, Dear Chelsea, Therapy for Black Girls. So if

989
00:54:03,602 --> 00:54:06,322
Speaker 3: any of those sound good, that's Women take the Mic

990
00:54:06,602 --> 00:54:12,962
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

991
00:54:13,082 --> 00:54:16,322
Speaker 5: Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people.

992
00:54:16,962 --> 00:54:21,442
Speaker 5: This episode was written by Zarn Burnett. Our producer, editor

993
00:54:21,522 --> 00:54:26,042
Speaker 5: and sound designer is Josh Fisher. Our story editor is

994
00:54:26,082 --> 00:54:31,482
Speaker 5: Marissa Brown. Additional editing and sound design by Jonathan Washington,

995
00:54:32,402 --> 00:54:37,682
Speaker 5: Mixing and mastering by Beheid Fraser. Original music by Elise McCoy.

996
00:54:38,602 --> 00:54:43,922
Speaker 5: Research and fact checking by Jocelyn Sears, Austin Thompson, Marissa Brown,

997
00:54:44,202 --> 00:54:49,682
Speaker 5: and Zaren Burnett. Show logo by Lucy Quintonia. Very Special

998
00:54:49,722 --> 00:54:53,722
Speaker 5: Episodes is hosted by Danish Schwartz, Zaren Burnette, and me

999
00:54:54,082 --> 00:54:58,042
Speaker 5: Jason English. I am your executive producer and we'll see

1000
00:54:58,082 --> 00:55:02,322
Speaker 5: you back here next Wednesday. Special Thanks to Julia Weaver,

1001
00:55:02,882 --> 00:55:07,922
Speaker 5: Ali Perry, Laura Tropiano and Carry Lieberman for including Very

1002
00:55:07,962 --> 00:55:12,922
Speaker 5: Special Episodes and the International Women's Day festivities. Very Special

1003
00:55:12,962 --> 00:55:15,962
Speaker 5: Episodes is a production of iHeart podcasts,