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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm got godlie Ben, the s is

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Speaker 1: all ball. You've downloaded it. Uh, you're gonna really love.

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Speaker 1: We have a three part series, a three part series

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Speaker 1: with Justin Plente and I you know, look, I watched

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Speaker 1: Justin play when he was at OU as a quarterback

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Speaker 1: before he transferred to to Murray State. I've obviously watched

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Speaker 1: him grow as a coach, and who didn't love those

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Speaker 1: TCU teams with Andy Dalton and he's the offensive coordinator.

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Speaker 1: Then he became the head coach at Memphis, right, and

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Speaker 1: then he had Paxton Lynch's quarterback, and then he went

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Speaker 1: to Virginia Tech. And I thought, for sure, like it's

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Speaker 1: harder replaced Frank Beamer, but you know, you keep Bud

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Speaker 1: Foster and you bring in a brilliant offensive mind and

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Speaker 1: it just works. And Covid really kicked him into you

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Speaker 1: know what, and they could never get over that hump.

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Speaker 1: But they were close, felt like they were close. And

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Speaker 1: now you know, uh, Hendon Hooker, his old quarterback, is

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Speaker 1: starring for a national championship contender in Tennessee. So all

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Speaker 1: of that stuff going on. The granular details are what

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Speaker 1: I enjoy about doing the podcast and so many of

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Speaker 1: you enjoy about listening to the podcast. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to get into Kyrie Irving stuff. We do that enough

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Speaker 1: on radio and um on uh in the Bonus pod

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Speaker 1: which is which is the radio extra our podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm more. We start college basketball Monday. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I have after this three partner, I had a great

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Speaker 1: sit down with with Greg McDermott, the head coach of Creighton.

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Speaker 1: They got a top ten team. But I want to

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Speaker 1: offer this up to you as you get ready to

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Speaker 1: watch the college basketball season. Obviously there's a ton to

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Speaker 1: get to with the NBA college basketball. We've always said

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Speaker 1: it's about guard play, right, Like analysts that don't know anything,

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Speaker 1: they do two things. They always say it's about guard play,

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Speaker 1: and then they start listing off the names of people

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Speaker 1: on the roster, like that's a great defense mechanism. When

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Speaker 1: you first get started into broadcasting, what not to do

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Speaker 1: is not to show off that you know the correct

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Speaker 1: pronunciation of names. Tell me I know the names of people.

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Speaker 1: Tell me give me, give me something substance, here's something substantive. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have to have guard play, and obviously the logic

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Speaker 1: behind it is you handle pressure, guards break pressure. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's some of it. What do we have more of

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Speaker 1: now than we've ever had before? Three point shooting correct, Well,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna shoot threes better the more guards you have

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Speaker 1: on the floor, not just because UM guards tend to

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Speaker 1: shoot the basketball better than big guys, but they pass better,

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Speaker 1: they handle better, they deliver the ball better on rhythm,

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Speaker 1: on time. So guard play is important, but so is

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Speaker 1: and I think the second most important position in college

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Speaker 1: basketball is the four spot because a stretch flour opens

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Speaker 1: up the floor. But also you want to be able

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Speaker 1: to play that uh switch one through four. Defensively, you've

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Speaker 1: gotta be able to rebound because again, if you're playing

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Speaker 1: smaller players, you've gotta be The four spot is and

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Speaker 1: it's creeping up on the most important. Guard play is

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Speaker 1: always going to be the most important, but the one

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Speaker 1: in the fourth. That's why I love U. C. L A.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't love some of the other piece

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Speaker 1: is I don't love their lack of depth. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to replace Johnny Jusanger was a go you know,

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Speaker 1: a bucket getter, Jules Bernard as well, But what do

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Speaker 1: they have They have a four year starter at the four,

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Speaker 1: They got a four year starter at the point, doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean I think the Bruins is gonna win the national championship,

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Speaker 1: but think they'll be very competitive and that's a big

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Speaker 1: reason why. All Right, more of that genius analysis to

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Speaker 1: come on the pod, but I gotta get to this.

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Speaker 1: Justin Flente, former head coach at Memphis. Incredibly successful there.

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Speaker 1: Of course, they won the American Athletic Conference and uh,

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Speaker 1: he was the offensive coordinator for TCU. But his career

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Speaker 1: started in high school in Oklahoma at a Union high school,

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Speaker 1: Union High School. We'll take the tale from there. I

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Speaker 1: think you'll enjoy it. Well, uh, coach, There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things I want to get to, um, but let's start. Okay,

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Speaker 1: growing up were you in Tulsa, Oklahoma? Were you always

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Speaker 1: just a football guy or you all sports guy? Um? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma with awesome experience. You know,

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Speaker 1: basically my life centered around sports football, basketball, baseball, and

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Speaker 1: my parents basically used that for academy as leverage for

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Speaker 1: academic performance, you know, like they knew that when it

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Speaker 1: was basketball season, I wanted to play basketball and baseball season,

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Speaker 1: baseball and football football, and that's all I wanted to do,

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Speaker 1: and so they used that as um, Okay, we'll let

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Speaker 1: you do as much of that as you want, but

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Speaker 1: it needs to have um, you know, basically all a's

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Speaker 1: on your portcard. So school is important to my family,

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Speaker 1: which indirectly made it important to me. And all I

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Speaker 1: cared about with sports being outside, playing outside, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, in the in in the you know,

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Speaker 1: pe It was my favorite forty five minutes in elementary school,

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Speaker 1: Like I just that was just what loved. And um,

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Speaker 1: I'm jealous now of kids these days because they have

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Speaker 1: so much access to so many more so many more

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Speaker 1: videos like we were just thirsty for any information on

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's or um, you know, the Dallas Cowboys. So

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Speaker 1: so we're we're we're so we're about the same age.

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Speaker 1: But you were in Oklahoma. I was in southern California, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what I remember out here was like everybody and

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Speaker 1: eighties Los Angeles sports scene was pretty incredible, right. We

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Speaker 1: had the Lakers, Dodgers were good, raiders actually won uh rams,

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Speaker 1: and actually bad Angels were actually pretty good as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then my infatuation with college really came from my

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Speaker 1: parents because they were. My dad was in Ohiose stay

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Speaker 1: at lum and then as a former college coach in Tulsa,

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals everybody's baseball team. Yes, for the most part,

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Speaker 1: they used to have a um. The Tulsa Drillers years

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Speaker 1: and years ago used to be a farm system for St. Louis.

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Speaker 1: They're not. And then everybody loved ou football, right, Cowboys,

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Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys. We saw the Cowboys in the Chiefs every Sunday.

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Speaker 1: So the a f C game was the Chiefs. The

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Speaker 1: NFC game as the Cowboys and the NFC East was

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Speaker 1: unbelievable at the time, right, Lawrence Taylor was playing, and

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Speaker 1: you know you had it was Randall Cunningham, the Randall

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Speaker 1: Cunningham with the with the Eagles, right John Riggins and

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Speaker 1: uh and just counter trade football with the with the

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Speaker 1: with the Redskins and who's who's the other team? And

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Speaker 1: one of the Cowboys and who are not thinking of

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Speaker 1: the Giant? Oh and then the Giants of course, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my dad, my dad was a huge Giants face in

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Speaker 1: New York, big Jet. So okay, when did now did

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Speaker 1: you grow up in the Union District or did you

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Speaker 1: get kind of because I know in Oklahoma for a

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Speaker 1: long time. They recruit even for high school football, even

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Speaker 1: even public school. Yeah. No, same school system, entire life

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Speaker 1: K through twelve. Uh, really a cool experience. I had

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Speaker 1: a great experience there, and I had a balanced house.

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Speaker 1: My my mom went to oh you, my dad went

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Speaker 1: to Oklahoma State but finished at Tulsa. So like the

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Speaker 1: one thing, the one thing that it wasn't, which I

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Speaker 1: think was pretty cool. It wasn't the house that if

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Speaker 1: if a college team lost and everybody's day was ruined,

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Speaker 1: because we really didn't care that much. It was pretty balanced,

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Speaker 1: so it was just all about the sport and uh.

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Speaker 1: But Union High School, my sister and I my sister's

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Speaker 1: tears below me went to Darnabe Elementary all the way

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Speaker 1: up to to Union High School. It's an incredible, incredible

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Speaker 1: athletic and academic experience. They're just a fantastic school. So

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Speaker 1: you go to Union and I didn't know it back

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Speaker 1: back then. Now it was still like the biggest school

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Speaker 1: and it was working its way towards that. Like it

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Speaker 1: wasn't um. Tulsa was still moving south. It's continued to

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Speaker 1: move south since I've left, but at the time there

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Speaker 1: was UM over on seventy one and Mingo, there was

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Speaker 1: Union High School and Sam's and that was it, and

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Speaker 1: one nine nine only went to fifty one, and then

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Speaker 1: eventually it came all the way to seventy one. And

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Speaker 1: now obviously it wraps all the way around, but um,

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Speaker 1: it was a little bit on. It was on the

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Speaker 1: edge of Tulsa of you know, of being in south

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Speaker 1: South Postal, Okay. And so then again, my experience with

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma didn't start until I got there. In college, Union

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Speaker 1: and Jinks were the two big football powers we were

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Speaker 1: coming on. Edmund was the school when I was. Edmond

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Speaker 1: only had one school at the time, and they were

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Speaker 1: they were kind of the school in all the sports.

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Speaker 1: You know, Marcus Nash went to Tennessee. They had a

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Speaker 1: big time player every single year. But they were on

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Speaker 1: the verge of dividing up into multiple schools, which then

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Speaker 1: kind of thrust the next two biggest schools or our

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Speaker 1: best funded schools with the best demographics became Union and Jinks.

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Speaker 1: So we were right at the end of Edmund and

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Speaker 1: right at the beginning of of Union Jinks and what

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Speaker 1: that eventually became. Yes, this is fascinating because now so

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Speaker 1: uh now kids are in eighth grade. It's all about like, okay,

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Speaker 1: do you hold him back? You hold him back. You

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Speaker 1: find the right high school for the best coach the team,

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Speaker 1: can they play right away? So none of that. You

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Speaker 1: were doing, none of this right, none of this. You

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Speaker 1: enter high school, UM with the intended mind of playing

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Speaker 1: all three sports. Yes, my ninth grade year. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I was fortunate. My ninth grade year, our football team

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Speaker 1: went to the state semifinals, and I had the greatest

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Speaker 1: year of my life in ninth grade. In ninth grade.

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Speaker 1: Uh and at the time, the ninth grade wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the high school, so we were in the I or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But I played UM ninth grade football. I got called

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Speaker 1: out to play a couple of jv football games, and

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Speaker 1: I was the backup quarterback on the varsity football team.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know how many games I played that year.

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Speaker 1: And our varsity team was really good, so they blew

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people out. So I got to play

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Speaker 1: a bunch of varsity games. All my buddies would be

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Speaker 1: up in the stands, you know, watching cheering me on.

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Speaker 1: And then I went to basketball and played ninth grade basketball.

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Speaker 1: I joined it a little bit late because I had

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Speaker 1: been playing varsity football and had a wonderful experience that

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Speaker 1: we had a great team, great deal. I went to

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Speaker 1: baseball and got called up to play varsity baseball. We

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Speaker 1: had a really good baseball program. So I was and

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Speaker 1: in the process of having a really good experience, and

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Speaker 1: then in the middle of my baseball season, I had

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Speaker 1: to have ankle surgery and um, well it's a long story,

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Speaker 1: but basically I had some stories I did. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: a one time thing like I would literally I remember,

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Speaker 1: like yesterday going to the movies with my parents and

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Speaker 1: I and I was fine, and I and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: get out of the car. I couldn't put any weight

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Speaker 1: on my There were bone there was bone spurs and

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Speaker 1: bone chips in there that they would float in and out.

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Speaker 1: And when they would float out, yeah, I was done.

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Speaker 1: Like I couldn't do anything. So I was in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a baseball game, I would just be done

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Speaker 1: like I couldn't. It wasn't swelling, it wasn't big. So

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Speaker 1: anyway they had to go in and still up all

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Speaker 1: that planning out. So baseball was over. Um, and the

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest sporting mistakes I've ever made or

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest regrets I would say is after

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Speaker 1: my ninth grade year, Um, I stopped playing basketball. I

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Speaker 1: don't regret it because I was good. I regret it

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Speaker 1: because I loved it. I really, really, really enjoyed playing basketball.

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Speaker 1: But I became a little bit I had a little

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Speaker 1: bit of feeling about myself and my own town. Like

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Speaker 1: I was playing varsity football at Union High School in

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Speaker 1: ninth grade, at varsity baseball in high school ninth grade,

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Speaker 1: and I there was a little ego in me that

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Speaker 1: didn't want to go play tenth grade basketball, you know,

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Speaker 1: the next year, because I wasn't gonna be a varsity

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Speaker 1: basketball player. I stopped playing, which was stupid, you know,

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Speaker 1: which was dumb, And I really wish I hadn't done

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Speaker 1: that because it was I mean, I like, I get it,

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Speaker 1: but but it's it's like it's like when you go

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Speaker 1: to a really good buffet, You're like, man, I like this,

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Speaker 1: but I can't fill up on all that because then

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Speaker 1: I don't get to appreciate, you know, my my ninth

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Speaker 1: grade you were similarly, I was only basketball and baseball

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Speaker 1: and I met again. Imagine you're in California at baseball.

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Speaker 1: It's like February one, it really starts. So we go

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Speaker 1: to we go to the we go deep into the

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Speaker 1: playoffs in basketball. By the time I came out to baseball,

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Speaker 1: everybody's kind of already got a spot, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I love baseball. I really love playing baseball. And I

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Speaker 1: was okay at it, but I truly enjoyed it. But

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Speaker 1: then you know, after one year, you're like, what am

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Speaker 1: I doing? Like these guys all they do is by

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Speaker 1: baseball and it's not gonna happen. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: other part is it's not just the ego of playing

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Speaker 1: sophomore JB or whatever. It's the it's that I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't really want to sit and watch somebody else play.

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Speaker 1: Once I get to be a upper classes like, I'll

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Speaker 1: sit and watch the varsity play like that dude is

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Speaker 1: bigger and better than me. But I think it watched.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's just that I'm that's not my jam Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So your sophomore years, you start at quarterback. I did,

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Speaker 1: and we had a pretty good team. And your who's

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Speaker 1: your coach? Bill blanket Ship. This is Bill blankets Ships

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Speaker 1: first year? So wait, so he was at Union, he

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Speaker 1: was and he came from Edmund because I was getting

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Speaker 1: ready to divide up and Union was going to be

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Speaker 1: the next big school. Um. He replaced Rick Jones, who

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Speaker 1: went on to a legendary career in Arkansas. Great coach.

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Speaker 1: He's in Missouri right now helping helping the head coach

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Speaker 1: there with football. But um too, great human beings. But

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Speaker 1: Bill was our coach. There was the coach. It was

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Speaker 1: his first year and um so so okay, So if

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Speaker 1: you can't remember back like and and I think people

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Speaker 1: in Oklahoma that listen to this will understand, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure people outside of Oklahoma will understand. Like, uh,

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Speaker 1: whatever iconic high school football coach you can think of

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Speaker 1: in terms of success, that's Bill Blanket, you right, I mean, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's the guy. So but but and Union High School

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Speaker 1: after he got there became a much bigger thing. But

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Speaker 1: this are these are big things locally. So he gets

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Speaker 1: the job, do you meet with him? Does he have

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Speaker 1: a team meeting? How does it work at that level

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Speaker 1: in that time? So I can't remember how it worked out,

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Speaker 1: But I was on crutches, uh from my ankle, exactly

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Speaker 1: how you want to meet your new kids? And like

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Speaker 1: I went up there like on one leg and threw

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Speaker 1: the ball around and um, you know, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to throw the ball as hard as humanly possible

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Speaker 1: in front of coach blanket ship. I want to make

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Speaker 1: a great impression and I'm literally on one leg and um,

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Speaker 1: he comes over and we talked for a little bit

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Speaker 1: and he says, you know, if you'll listen to me,

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Speaker 1: you know, which I was gonna listen to anybody, like

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Speaker 1: my parents weren't gonna let me not listen to the coach.

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Speaker 1: But he said, if you listen to me, then I

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Speaker 1: can help you be a really good player, basically is

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Speaker 1: what he said. And I was like, tell me what

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Speaker 1: to do, you know, like I'm in like I've always

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Speaker 1: I was kind of that was our house, right, Coach,

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Speaker 1: tell you what to do, you go do it. And um,

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Speaker 1: So then we go to tenth grade and like nobody

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Speaker 1: it was weird and this hurt me in the long run,

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Speaker 1: but nobody in the grades above me. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go be the They just like handed me the job.

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Speaker 1: They just as a tenth grader. It was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go play safe. The Justin's going to be

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Speaker 1: the quarterback, Like there was no no competition, which was

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Speaker 1: unfortunate and ultimately kind of hurt me, I think in

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Speaker 1: the long run, because I never really got into a competition.

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Speaker 1: But um, I was. I was just the starting quarterback

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Speaker 1: in tenth grade, and we had a really good team

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Speaker 1: and we were we were kind of coming together. And

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Speaker 1: in the last regular season game, Um, in the game

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Speaker 1: we won, like fifty one to seven, I broke my

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Speaker 1: collar bone. Um, I broke it badly. Are you in

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Speaker 1: the game? Well, we weren't up yet. It was early

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Speaker 1: in the game, early in the game. But we went

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Speaker 1: on to beat beat the brakes off of them, which

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Speaker 1: was stupid, you know. Um, But I I I was

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Speaker 1: moving to my right running the ball, and I put

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Speaker 1: my shoulder down, got hit just right on the right spot,

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Speaker 1: and I broke it in a Z pattern. So I

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Speaker 1: broke it really bad, and so they carted me off

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Speaker 1: the field. And um, there's no backup quarterback because everybody

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Speaker 1: wanted to play to right. It was a receiver in

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Speaker 1: our class, like our slot receiver. UM was in tenth grade.

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Speaker 1: A good friend of mine played baseball and basketball toget

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Speaker 1: we grew up, you know, playing sports together. He had

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Speaker 1: to move over to quarterback as a tenth grader. So

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Speaker 1: Bill in his entire time at Union never started a

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Speaker 1: tenth grade quarterback except for me, in his entire time there.

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Speaker 1: And then when I got hurt, he had to replace

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Speaker 1: me with another tenth grader because none of the kids above,

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Speaker 1: you know, wanted any part of it. So, um, I

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Speaker 1: had to have surgery. I had have two surgeries. They

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Speaker 1: put a plate with five screws on my shoulder and

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Speaker 1: and did a bone graph because it was broken pretty badly.

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Speaker 1: And um so then they months later they had to

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Speaker 1: take that plate back out. I was cleared for football,

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Speaker 1: I mean, excuse me, I was cleared for baseball. But

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Speaker 1: I had a really bad baseball season. I just I

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Speaker 1: was coming off the injury and I wasn't into it.

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Speaker 1: I was still probably you mad that I was. You

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Speaker 1: missed the end of the season, and I was worried

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Speaker 1: about my next season, quite honestly because of the severity

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Speaker 1: of the break. And I had a bad baseball season.

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Speaker 1: And after tenth grade, um, you know, I met with

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Speaker 1: coach b and all that sort of stuff, and I

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Speaker 1: decided that I was gonna see if I could be

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Speaker 1: basically coach Blankotship told me. Then he said, you you can.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna get his college scholarship. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: I was gonna a scholarship. I had no idea. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not something we talked about at my house, you know.

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Speaker 1: Um he said, but where that scholarship is will be

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Speaker 1: up to you, meaning how you work over the next

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Speaker 1: several years, how you train, how you dedicate yourself. Um,

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Speaker 1: we'll determine whether that's at you know, a junior college

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Speaker 1: or a Division two school or Division one school or

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Speaker 1: you know what now becomes known as Power five and

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Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. So that was the end

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Speaker 1: of baseball, and I became the football quarterback for They're

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Speaker 1: on out. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk

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00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 1: lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at

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Speaker 1: Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart

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00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 1: Radio app. Search f s R to listen live. So, okay,

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Speaker 1: that time in Tulsa, Oklahoma, what do you do in

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Speaker 1: the off season? Now, you go to a quarterback guru,

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Speaker 1: you go to the Elite eleven. You know, you have

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Speaker 1: a trainer, You do this, you do that. What do

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Speaker 1: you do? We? Well, I went to football offseason with

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Speaker 1: the school and then Bill sent me to track, which

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Speaker 1: was awful. And I went to track not to run

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Speaker 1: in the Yeah, I mean the first day. I'll never

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Speaker 1: forget the first workout. I mean, these guys can really run.

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Speaker 1: I can't run, yeah at all. And the first day

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Speaker 1: we ran ten two hundreds and you had to, you know,

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Speaker 1: you had to. You had to spread the two hundreds

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Speaker 1: and jog and the rest of the two hundred. And

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Speaker 1: then I mean I couldn't walk. I was done, like

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Speaker 1: I was smoked. I've never been a part of anything

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Speaker 1: like that. And I stayed in track and it really

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Speaker 1: helped me. It was hard and miserable. But you can't

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Speaker 1: give him my track story real quick. This this is

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Speaker 1: I have one track story. So I get done my

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Speaker 1: senior year at in high school and I had wanted

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Speaker 1: to play football. I played football growing up till high school.

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Speaker 1: And then my program, the program became very good after

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Speaker 1: I graduated. They hired the guy Myron Miller and they

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Speaker 1: were in the wing tea. They had to Sean Foster

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Speaker 1: and Frosty Brook. They had a bunch of pros. Sam

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Speaker 1: Baker was an offense lineman. Um. But my senior they

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Speaker 1: were awful. Different coach. They're bad, and they need a quarterback.

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Speaker 1: And I played quarterback all growing up, but never played

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Speaker 1: like real big boy football quarterback anyway, they wouldn't let me,

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Speaker 1: so they said, hey, we're not gonna let you play football,

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Speaker 1: but we want you to run track. When basketball's like

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Speaker 1: really like yeah, you know, it's just speed, quickness and endurance,

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Speaker 1: a little different sort of athleticism, all right. So talking

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Speaker 1: to the track coach, we get them playing football and

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Speaker 1: I go over to run tracks. So they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we have a meet tomorrow. You'll be fine, all right,

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Speaker 1: right and fine right, so you know, I'm like warming

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Speaker 1: up with the guys. And I had um, I had

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Speaker 1: had a running coach when I was a kid. Uh

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Speaker 1: And then Mark Vish was my trainer, so we had

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Speaker 1: done like in terms of my my form was excellent,

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Speaker 1: and we actually worked on like explosive the explosive techniques

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Speaker 1: of getting off the blocks as part of like our training.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, I got this, and then I got

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Speaker 1: the blocks. I'm past, I got running for him, you know,

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Speaker 1: I know that like my thumb to my middle finger,

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Speaker 1: you know. So, and I'm going and the two D

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Speaker 1: you know, you go around the turn right, so you

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Speaker 1: don't really have a feel for where you are. But

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Speaker 1: it was feeling pretty good. And I'm like, these guys,

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Speaker 1: I got this, I got this, and I and I

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Speaker 1: go past that turn and I'm in the lead and

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Speaker 1: you see the finish line, and I swear to god,

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Speaker 1: somebody took it moved it back because all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm like a stalled car on

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Speaker 1: the day, Like I didn't know. You don't run all

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Speaker 1: out right away right like I had no idea. There's

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Speaker 1: an art to it. I got smoked, smoked, so I know,

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Speaker 1: you know, like there's like so I don't know much.

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Speaker 1: It was tracked. H did you run in meats? No?

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Speaker 1: I did not. I mean no, I was nowhere close

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Speaker 1: to being anything those guys were. But I mean every

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Speaker 1: day I remember sitting in fifth period, in sixth period

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Speaker 1: was track, and I'm just looking at that clock thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm twenty four minutes away from just getting pasted.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm twenty three minutes away from tasted like

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Speaker 1: this is. But it was so good for me, it

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Speaker 1: was so good. I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure football

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Speaker 1: is like that too, though, because because I played for

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Speaker 1: a guy. My fresh year in high school. I went

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Speaker 1: to Tustin High School because there's a guy named Tom

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Speaker 1: McCluskey was a coach. And Tom played at Penn State

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Speaker 1: under a guy named Dick Harder S where he got

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Speaker 1: his name. So Dick is Dick was actually on Larry

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Speaker 1: Bird's staff. He's an old school fanatic defensive coach. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and then he crazy drills and like stuff you can

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Speaker 1: never get away with now and I never forget. McCleskey

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Speaker 1: told me the story. He's at Penn State and and

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you did this when you're a

427
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: head coach or I'm sure some coaches they put the

428
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: schedule up, you know when you walk in, so you

429
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: walk in the locker room and look and you know

430
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: everything you're doing that day. So every sudden didn't do

431
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: that like it was we didn't. He had the he had,

432
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: he knew what was doing. Everybody else knew what that

433
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: except the players. John McCloud, we walk in at Notre

434
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: Dame and you'd have the whole schedule. So he said

435
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 1: that guys would walk in and they would look at

436
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: some of the drills and they would go sit in

437
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: the locker and just start crying. They're like, man, that's

438
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: the worst, that's that's the way. Okay, So, um, at

439
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: what point did now, so this is Oklahoma, Gary Gibbs

440
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: is the coach, right, and at what point did they

441
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: begin to recruit you? Well, recruiting obviously was different than

442
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: than it is now. And it was my senior year.

443
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: My junior was just okay. My senior year was really good.

444
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: And about halfway into my senior year, things things began

445
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 1: to pick up dramatically, you know, like I really got

446
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: a little you know, for me. They got to be

447
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: fairly Oh you got involved, Um, Kansas State, who are

448
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: the other quarterbacks in the state? There was, Um, I

449
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: don't know that there was another guy in Oklahoma that

450
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: was a Division one guy. Brian Pressley was a really

451
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: good one at at Jinks but he was um short,

452
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: real short. But um his son's actually a really good

453
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: player now. But um, so there wasn't another like Division

454
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: one guy that I can remember. So you're the you're

455
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: so so in the Tulsa World, the Daily Oklahoma in

456
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: the preview, Max like, you're the guy. R W mcquarters

457
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: was a senior that year at him and Demon Parker

458
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: like in Tulsa those three Jason Freeman was at with

459
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: Skogee was a really really good player. But Demon and

460
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: in our w were I mean they were big time,

461
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: really big time. So what what what? What was? I mean?

462
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: What is that like? And you're in a football town,

463
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 1: football school and year three year starter and you're you know,

464
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: you're being recruited like I'm picturing kind of Johnny be Good.

465
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. No. I went through the longer hair

466
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: phase like in the in junior high you know, a

467
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: little bit of a mullet, but I did grow the

468
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: hair out on top. My kids see pictures of me

469
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: my senior year. There's one that was on the front

470
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: page or like the daily. Oh Coleman, it's just awful.

471
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: Like me and our w our w has got his

472
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: hair nice and tight, you know, it looks good, and

473
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: I mean I look like a complete loser. You know.

474
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: My hair is like shaved on the side and like

475
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: flopped over that. It's just the worst ever. So yeah,

476
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: my hair was terrible, but it was good. Life was good,

477
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, like you still have but she used to

478
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: have good hair, so you can still go back to it.

479
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: I don't have nearly this good of hair. So I

480
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: go back. I kicked myself like that was so cheap.

481
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get a good fade. I cut my own hair.

482
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: Have when of my buddies cut my hair? You know,

483
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: now you got a little money in your pocket and

484
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: you don't have the hair to get a good hair.

485
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't You should get to live your life backwards,

486
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: you know you really should. Yes, yes, well that's that's

487
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: why you have kids. So um, okay, was there any

488
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: choice other than Oklahoma? Yeah? So I didn't. Um. So

489
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 1: the weird part of this whole deal was I really

490
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: liked Um. I really liked Tulsa and Dave Raider was

491
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: the head coach there. I really liked. And they were

492
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: the only one that really threw the ball, like even Gary,

493
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: you know, the end of Gary Gibbs's deal, Like they

494
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: weren't really throwing the football. Tulsa was throwing the ball,

495
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: and like you know, had good quarterbacks coming through there. Um.

496
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: It's it's really interesting because because again as I'm picturing

497
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: all this, I'm wondering, like, Bill Blankenship, are you guys

498
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: running power? I guys back U we were ahead of

499
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: our time, like we were in eleven personnel, No huddle,

500
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: and you know, we didn't move as fast as some

501
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: of those places do now. But I mean it was

502
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: pretty cool system Like he was really pretty far ahead

503
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: of his time. But you can't it's hard shown in

504
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: Oklahoma when you're in the state of Oklahoma. Right. Well,

505
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: they both state schools fired their coaches my senior year, so, um,

506
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: was it before your senior he was during that during

507
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: that fall. So Garry Gibbs got fired and Howard Snoimberger

508
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: got hired. So Howard Snoimberger is gonna come run a

509
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: pro style offense at the University of Oklahoma for the

510
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 1: first time ever done. Like okay, I get to go

511
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: two hours and you know he built Miami's program, right yeah, Bernie,

512
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: those are like he was at Louisville, had won at Louisville,

513
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: which nobody had ever done. Like this is this is

514
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: a no brainer. That's when it became I was going

515
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: to you, Now, did you go there in the spring

516
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: or did you graduate? No? I stayed, and I stayed

517
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: in the spring. There wasn't a lot of that mid

518
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: term graduate stuff going on at the time, not that

519
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: I knew of. Um. I mean, if I would have

520
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: if that was a thing. I would have done it,

521
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, because I didn't have a spring sport. I

522
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: was really serious about so anyway, I did not want to. Um, Now,

523
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: did you guys win the whole thing? We lost in

524
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: the finals? Big time? Big time disappointed Midwest City for

525
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: a long time. That was nineteen whatever. That was the

526
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: fall of ninety four, because I graduated in the fall

527
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: of nine. Yeah, that was the long That was the

528
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,239
Speaker 1: last time a team from the West I want it.

529
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: There's a lot of conspiration. There's a lot of a

530
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: lot of things that have been going on about about

531
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: that game, about our signals and about them scouting us,

532
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: and they stole your signals semi final game. That's them.

533
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to accuse anybody of anything, but this

534
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: is okay, this is great thirty years later. I mean,

535
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: I'm still bitter about it. I'm not gonna lie. Like,

536
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: this is what people who are not athletes are competitors, right, Like,

537
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: do you remember the losses way more than you remember

538
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: the winds. You remember everything you know, and you like,

539
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: when you're around normal company, you don't want to blame anybody,

540
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: but when you're around private company, you're like, no, I mean,

541
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: we tell people we we have this discussion all the

542
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: time with um with my Oakland. Say, guys, where we

543
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: lost the last game in Gallagher and we had a

544
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: nine point lead and coach freaked out and suddening me

545
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: out because he thought they were gonna hack a got lea.

546
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: We lost all momentum and then we lost to Florida

547
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: in the early eight I love my coach, but he

548
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: freaked out over their press, and he took us out

549
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: of our secondary break, which is we scored all our

550
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: points off of and we just never couldn't establish a rhythm.

551
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: They're probably better than us, but we played really tight

552
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: and a style that we hadn't played all year. So yeah,

553
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: I mean that's what happens. So I guarantee you know.

554
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: We also got he also got a technical foul early

555
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: in the game from an official who killed us every

556
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: time heat, so yeah, I get it. So he stole

557
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: your signals? Huh, Yeah, that's the word. We actually ended

558
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: up getting in the huddle for the first time all

559
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: year in the second half and started just mowing them

560
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: down and then got the game to be really close

561
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: and basically they they held the ball for the last

562
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: several minutes and we didn't get them. If we had

563
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: gotten the ball back, I think we scored, but yeah,

564
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: there were in a fifth quarter, you would have won.

565
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: But oh well, so you show up to play for

566
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: Howard Schellenberger, right, he coached that because he only was

567
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: only one year. Was that us your freshman year? I've

568
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: read that. Okay, So you want to have about legendary

569
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: stuff that people have forgotten. The story goes, there's other

570
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: stories that I want you. I'd love you to share.

571
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: He didn't let you guys get water, that's correct, during

572
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: one five minute water break in the middle of practice. Now,

573
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: did you guys have an indoor back then? So you're

574
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: practicing outdoors in Oklahoma in the heat, and you got

575
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: one water And I'll tell you. I'll tell you this

576
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: after the first day, the first practice, so we had

577
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: two days at the time. He calls us up after

578
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: the first practice and says that one didn't count. We

579
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: still have two practices left today. So we had three

580
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: practices on the first day, three practices on the second day.

581
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: I think by the third day we got down to two.

582
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: But I mean it was legendary, I don't know how long,

583
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: Like it was incredible, like guys would have to get

584
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 1: so much water in them that they could hardly make

585
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: it through stretch without having a p So like I mean,

586
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: like you're just guzzling water to get ready to go

587
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: out there to practice, and like guys you would look

588
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: up and stretch and everything. You know, they had those

589
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: bushes over there by whatever that street is right in

590
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: front of the deal. And like guys would all be

591
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: upsetting their peeing in the bushes because like they were

592
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: set because they knew they weren't gonna get but one

593
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: five minute water bread and well and so like the

594
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: best part of the best part of college sports is

595
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: when you were sitting around the locker room afterwards and

596
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: or beforehand and they're talking about you know, guys are

597
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: talking about each other or crazy the coach. Are guys

598
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: revolting on this thing? Like what is was there? I

599
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't say back there? Again, this is also back then,

600
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: like you said, like dudes did not question coaches. You would,

601
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: but it wasn't the same as now. Right now, it

602
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: could never happen because social media and you go to

603
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: your parents or whatever. What was it like, well, it wasn't.

604
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: And again I was a freshman, so like people would

605
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: have happen to know, but correct, people haven't played sportsn't

606
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: understand like this is get in line and stay out

607
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: of the way, right, like this is don't screw this up.

608
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: So but yeah, it wasn't a real positive locker room.

609
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was pretty rough. Like the

610
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: older dudes, the real guys, you know, the real players,

611
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: they're like, you know, what are we doing? And but

612
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: there was also a group of guys that were there

613
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: were there were really dedicated, badass guys that like we're

614
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: kind of like, let's go we can you know, let's

615
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: take this channel, let's go this is this is what

616
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: it takes for us to be better. Let's let's go

617
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: do that. But you know, it was, uh, whatever day

618
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: it was that he finally we went from three practices

619
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: the two that was that was that was a good day.

620
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: I like the greatest day of that. I don't know

621
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: if it could have got another one of those were

622
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: the practicing quarterbacks. What were you guys doing? That was

623
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: so other than being out there knell for us, it

624
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: was no big deal, you know. And for me, like

625
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't even in the competition, so you know, it

626
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: was Garrett McGee and uh Eric Moore. Basically we're competing

627
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: for the job, and so I mean I wasn't getting

628
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: very many reps and so so here here's my recollection

629
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: of my first a couple of weeks of practice in

630
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: college where I had my dad was a former college coach.

631
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: He had coached me grown up in my two high

632
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: school coaches where college level coaches, former college players really good.

633
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: So I thought, I'm ready for whatever, you know, and

634
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: then I just got my proceed to get my ass

635
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: kicked for like three weeks straight, just like to where

636
00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm never going to play in college.

637
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: I stink um. What was your experience? Like, you're coming

638
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: from an incredibly decorated high school coach, you're the best

639
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: high school quarterback in the state, You're supposed to eventually

640
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: be the guy. What was what was your practice experience

641
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: like outside of the water break stop. Yeah, So we

642
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: had freshman two days to start with. So this was

643
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: back in the days when the freshman came in early

644
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: and practiced before the varsity practiced, and so like I

645
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: remember freshman two days or freshman camp or whatever they

646
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: called it. I remember like going out there to throw

647
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: the ball, and I can't throw the ball, Like my

648
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: shoulder pads don't fit right. You know, I've had the

649
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: same pair of pads for three straight years. They don't fit,

650
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: like it's up against my helmet. The ball is like

651
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: they're all brand new and they're hard, and like we're

652
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: doing drills I've never done, and I mean, I look,

653
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm terrible. I'm like this is this is this

654
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: is not good, Like what's the matter with me? You know,

655
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: why can't I? And I'm you know, anxious and nervous

656
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: and amped up and all that sort of stuff, And

657
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: so I did not throw them all very well to

658
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: start with. And then I was like, I don't remember

659
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: how many days we had a freshmen two days, maybe

660
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: it's five or something like that. I'm like, there's me

661
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: and one other quarterbacks. I'm like, how many reps are

662
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: we going to take? Like my arm is gonna fall off,

663
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: you know, like like there's nobody else here to share

664
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: the reps. Like it's just one one rep after another.

665
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, like, I'm never gonna make it. Well. Then

666
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: the varsity shows up and I realized, like those reps

667
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 1: go straight to zero now, and now you're now you don't.

668
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: You don't rep so, um, I realized pretty quickly that

669
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: I had a lot of work to do to to

670
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: be able to to play. When did you realize that

671
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: Snellenburger thing wouldn't make it? I don't know, Like I

672
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: think when um we were we lost to Oklahoma State twelve,

673
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: did nothing in Norman, and I don't know if we

674
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: had a hundred yards of offense, I had no idea.

675
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: Like again, like I was a bread shirt, but I

676
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: got to dress out. And when I walked in the

677
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: locker room after that game, I mean, all hell broke loose.

678
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 1: I've never seen the locker room like that in my life.

679
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: And I mean it was coaches, it was players, it

680
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 1: was this, it was it was crazy, and I remember thinking,

681
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: this is not how this is supposed to look like

682
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: it finally occurred to me, this is probably not really

683
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: how this is supposed to low So um, okay, so

684
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: where were you? What do you remember about when he was,

685
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: when he was let go, when when resigned whatever? When?

686
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure it wasn't the exact day, because it seems

687
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: a little odd that it would be the exact day.

688
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: But I the way I remember it is driving home

689
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: to Tulsa for Christmas break, and I remember getting home

690
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: and nobody being home, like my parents were at work

691
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: or whatever, and and sitting around and the phone just

692
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: starting to ring off the hook and it was local

693
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: obviously we didn't have cell phones at the time. It

694
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: was the local news media calling to want to talk

695
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: to me about UM coach number being fired. And that's

696
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: the way I remember it. I don't think it was

697
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: actually the day I came home from Christmas break, but

698
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 1: the way I kind of remember it was just sitting

699
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: at the house and the phone ringing and um it

700
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: being his phone call after you know, call, waiting and

701
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: beeping in on the other end, and you know, just

702
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: like constantly um that he'd been he'd been let go.

703
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: So what in those moments, because now, if you were

704
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: an exact same position, you know, you'd huddle with your

705
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: quarterback guy, maybe your high school coach, you know, somebody else,

706
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: your parents, You try to make a decision. Do I stay,

707
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: do I put myself in the portal? What did you do?

708
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: I was just anxious to see who they were gonna hire,

709
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, like I mean I went there, you know,

710
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: I was a little worried and a little taken back,

711
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: but I was almost too young to have an opinion,

712
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: you know, Like it was like, you know, I felt

713
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: like deep in my heart that something wasn't right with

714
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: the way things were going there. So you know, somebody

715
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: obviously above above us made that decision, somebody above coach

716
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: Noingberger made the decision to move in a different direction.

717
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: And I was curious to see, um, you know, what

718
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: was gonna happen. And I don't think it was very long.

719
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: It seems to me it wasn't much later that Blake

720
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: was named her coach. Now, his reputation is was that

721
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: he had great personality, you know, great recruiter, super warm,

722
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: obviously not totally involved in the open side of the football.

723
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: So he gets the job. Did he call you did?

724
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: How did it work? He did? He did? Um, it

725
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: was a pretty quick conversation, but they did. I remember

726
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: talking to him in my house and UM on the

727
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: phone and UM, just him saying, man, we're gonna go

728
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: get a good coordinator. You know, I want you with us,

729
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: you know that kind of deal. We're gonna do great things,

730
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: you know, just a brief introduction, certainly wasn't a very

731
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: long phone call, and Um, I said, awesome. I can't

732
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: can't wait to get back and get to work. So

733
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: you get back and what was elected? So they hire

734
00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: Dick Winder and um, Dick Winder was from Texas hack. Um.

735
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: If you can imagine, what's somebody that looks like, you know,

736
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: had been in the West Texas Sun for years on end,

737
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: you know, just I mean rough, like leather faced, uh

738
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: dip dribbling off the chin. Um, just like almost a

739
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: cartoon character, to be honest with you, and just a

740
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: really rough, grizzled voice. And they hired him. And I

741
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: had seen them play in the game. Zebie Lethridge was

742
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: their court was their quarterback, and I had seen him

743
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: play in the bowl game and it was pretty cool

744
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: what they were doing. It was a little bit different.

745
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: They were like breaking the huddle and sprinting up to

746
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: the line of scrimmage, um throwing the ball quite a bit.

747
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: I was. It was kind of interesting. So they call

748
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: I get back to school and they call me and say,

749
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: coach Winders here and he would like to meet you.

750
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: And I said great, So I, um, I think I

751
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: was in the dorm at the bud just across the street.

752
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: So I came over, I came upstairs, which again like

753
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: I didn't go into coach's offices right, Like it was

754
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: terrifying to be in the coach's offices. I didn't want

755
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: to be in the coach's officers, like that's where you

756
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: win if you're in trouble. But UM, I meet uh

757
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: coach Winder and he sticks his hand out and he says,

758
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: I've I've heard a lot about you. And I said

759
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: that's awesome, coach. Uh, me too, and he said I

760
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: didn't say any of it was good, and I was like, wow,

761
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to say, but I should tell you. Um.

762
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: And this all circles back later. But as the neatest

763
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: human being I've ever been around. UM, I absolutely loved him.

764
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: And he was completely opposite from Bill boy Kidship. You know,

765
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: Bill was this very polished, very measured, UM very calm

766
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: quarterback coach and Dick coach. Winder was the roughest, toughest

767
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: mena s ob you've ever met in your life. And

768
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: I would have jumped in front of a train in

769
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: front of for both of them, you know, like, and

770
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: it was really cool. It was hard at first because

771
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: Dick was on me so hard. It was really really difficult.

772
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: I've never been talked to like that. I've never been

773
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: I've never been coached like that before in my life.

774
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: I've always been the guy that did things the right way,

775
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like the pleaser, and he

776
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: was all over me right from the start. But I

777
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: absolutely adored and adored demand. What I remember about that

778
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: team was you guys came into Stillwater and I felt

779
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: like you were in three different offenses in one game.

780
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's the old like in basketball. You played

781
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: three different defenses and that means not of them are

782
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: any good. You're just trying to hide the fact the

783
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: end of good. But I remember like you ran some

784
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: like kind of old school you got like power of

785
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: eye formation sort of stuff. And then I want to say,

786
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: more played and you guys ran like wishbone and then

787
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: there was somewhere you were running shotgun. It felt like

788
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: a totally different It just felt like a mishmash of

789
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: of like a confluence of styles. But what was it

790
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: from from your perspective? Well, he had a very clear

791
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: vision of what he wanted offensively, and it all fit together.

792
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: The problem was there were some other people working behind

793
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: his behind his back the powers that be to try

794
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: and influence things in another way. And what compounded that

795
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: the problem was that we did not have much success

796
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: with the way you know, coach was trying to do

797
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 1: things because the quarterback play, myself and Eric it wasn't

798
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: very good. And so that made it look you know,

799
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: so then they then some other people started searching for

800
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: some different answers. I was a freshman and I was playing,

801
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: and I wasn't playing because I was good. I was

802
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: playing because there's nobody else to play. And I was

803
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 1: playing before I was ready. And Eric to some extent

804
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: was only a sophomore and he was playing to some

805
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: extent before he was ready. And and Eric, Eric would

806
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: have been and you tell him, Abron because you lived

807
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: in the way people play now, incredible, right, he'd be great,

808
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of allowing him to move and

809
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: run and throw right and the kind of some of

810
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: the simplifications of the reads. Right. But you know, if

811
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: you put a guy in a wrong style and he's

812
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: and he's not ready, yeah, it's hard, it's right. So

813
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: as things went, it was kind of a weird, a

814
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: bunch of elevators going on, Like as the next two

815
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: years passed. My knowledge and understanding of what we're trying

816
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: to get accomplished started to increase to where I started

817
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: to become a guy that started to actually know what

818
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: the heck was going on as my as my eligibility

819
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 1: went down, like my knowledge went up and I started

820
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: to figure it figure it out well. But the influences

821
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: on our offense started to become more influential and we

822
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: started to change. And you know, we moved Brandon Daniels

823
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: to quarterback and he didn't even want to play quarterback

824
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: and it was just a total mess. That was the

825
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: one that he was the guy who was like and

826
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: you guys try to run option with him. I mean

827
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 1: it was it was ridiculous. I mean, Brandon has this

828
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: is this is but this is a little bit interesting

829
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: for in your coaching career. Right where you right, and

830
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: you tell me if you see the parallel. And I've

831
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: seen this at plan of places when you're trying to

832
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: replace some legendary dude, some Ledgary and you know Switzer

833
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: and those guys, it's also their style becomes ingrained. And

834
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,919
Speaker 1: Nebraska has gone through this where they it's like this

835
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 1: is the only way in which we can win. This

836
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: is how you win football games, and and it it

837
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: felt like constantly trying to jam that triple option, you know,

838
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: down everybody's throats, like yeah, I don't know. Well it's

839
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: not a sometimes thing either, right, Like I mean, you

840
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: don't you don't do the you can't put in a

841
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,439
Speaker 1: you can, but you're wasting your time, like you can't

842
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: run it, like the adjustments in the practice it takes.

843
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: So I mean it was a total waste of time

844
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: and totally but you know, it totally gotten out of

845
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: Dick's hands and gotten into other people's hands. And it

846
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: was frustrating for me because here I was at the

847
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: end of my which would be my third year in college.

848
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: I was two and a half years in red shirt,

849
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: played and played, and I'm in the middle of this

850
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 1: red shirt sophomore year and I'm like the light bulbs

851
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: starting to go off for me, like I'm starting to

852
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: figure it out, and then but we are deviating so

853
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: far away from what we started off to do that

854
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter. Basically, Um so, your your last

855
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: game was a game still it was in Texas Tech EXE.

856
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: So my last game I hadn't been playing much and

857
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 1: there was a lot of rumors that coaches were getting

858
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: fired and all sort of stuff, and Dick comes to

859
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: me all week and he says, be ready, be ready,

860
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I got your coach, I got you,

861
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: you know. But I'm thinking to myself, ready for what? Man, Like,

862
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: I gotta figure out what I'm gonna do with my

863
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: life because this thing is going a toilet and um,

864
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: he says, I'm just telling you be ready. So we

865
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: go to Lubbock and uh, I can't remember if Eric

866
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: was playing or Brandon was playing. It might have been Brandon. Anyway,

867
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: they go through about the first two series and don't

868
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: do anything, and we're like, I think tech I think

869
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: at the time zebbie Lethrid's was the quarterback his senior year.

870
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: I think if they win, they go to the Big

871
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: twelve Championship and I think I think they win the

872
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: South that year. Um, so they're twenty something. My point

873
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: favorites to beat us because we're what year this is? Uh,

874
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: let's see here, Uh this is the Fall of nine. Okay. Um.

875
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 1: So after two series, Dick turns me and says, get

876
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: in there. He called me bucket. He says, Bucket, get

877
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: in there, because he said I had a bucket ass.

878
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: So he called me bucket all the time. I don't know,

879
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: that's just coach winder Man, like he called me a

880
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 1: lot of things. You can't call anybody anymore. Um but anyway,

881
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: so he so we get in there and like yeah,

882
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: and like I mean, we go throw the ball around

883
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,959
Speaker 1: and I have a great game, like we beat Texas Tech,

884
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: and um, it was kind of sad, you know, because

885
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, I think Coach winder and several other coaches

886
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: got fired the next day. I knew it was probably

887
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,479
Speaker 1: my last game at OHU, but I played really well.

888
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,439
Speaker 1: I stuck with the team through the season. I've used

889
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: this example with my players, you know, like when we

890
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: talk about what is quitting me, you know, because I

891
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: think it's a pretty blurred line that I think has

892
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: shifted a lot in the last several years and college sports.

893
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: Um but it stuck it out and played that last

894
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: game and you know, played pretty well. Like it was

895
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: like Big twelve Offensive Player of the Week or what

896
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, some corny deal like that. But um, but

897
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,720
Speaker 1: it was my that was my last game, and um

898
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: I left that winner for Murray State. Um. There's a

899
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: there's a there's a bunch as. So if you don't remember,

900
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: it's okay. Do you remember what that was like? Packing

901
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: up your stuff? Familiar year sucked, it's awful. Had a

902
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: little apartment off campus and my uh I got a

903
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: little rental U haul deal and hooked it up to

904
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: my truck. My sister helped me, and uh, I just

905
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: remember thinking, you know, this thinks for a long time,

906
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: I was really angry about the whole situation. To be

907
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: honest with you, Um, I got a hard time sleeping,

908
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: and I just felt like somebody else was controlling my

909
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: my life, you know, somebody that wanted to go to

910
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: school there. I felt like I was just figuring things out.

911
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 1: I didn't you know. I felt like if we were

912
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: given a chance to on what coach Winder wanted to

913
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: run through a little bit of time, that we could

914
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: get it figured out, you know, like and I felt

915
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: like I was about to be the guy that could

916
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: go do that and and and be productive. So I

917
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: was mad and sad, and like I said, like I

918
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: really had a hard time sleeping, Like I would lay

919
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: in bed and just start to think about it and

920
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: get really angry about about the situation. I will bet

921
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: and again I don't none of the stuff I know. Um.

922
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: The other part that's weird about it is like you

923
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: said that you weren't a one school family even going

924
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: into it, but once you become O US quarterback and

925
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: you signed there, your whole family can all become about ou.

926
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: But like you just you adopt all the traditions and

927
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: now all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I'm not,

928
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 1: that's not me anymore. It's a very. It's a very

929
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: because you know, when I want to know tore Dame,

930
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, my my parents, but everything notre Dame.

931
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: I have always like, yeah, always closed what I do,

932
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: always close what I And then you're in the you're

933
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: also you're in the state of Oklahoma, and you know

934
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: some people would deem it a failure. And what you're

935
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: saying is like something, we didn't even get a chance

936
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: to try it, let alone fail at doing it, and

937
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: that that I think that's what reads the anger is

938
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: like I'm not actually angry that I didn't succeed. I'm

939
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 1: angry I didn't get it. We didn't get a chance

940
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: to do it the way it should have been done.

941
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: Like I felt like I felt like it was somebody

942
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: else controlling it, you know, like you've always felt like

943
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 1: you've been able to make make your own decisions, or

944
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: like I developed a really close relationship with coach Winder,

945
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: you know, and it was just like I really believed

946
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: in what he was doing and how we're going to

947
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: go do it, and um, it was just I tell you,

948
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: I haven't heard time for a while, and it manifests

949
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: itself at night, you know, like I'd lay in bed

950
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: and I started to think about it. And a friend

951
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: of mine gaming a book that, Um, it's kind of

952
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: an ironic title, but it's that I don't believe in.

953
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: It's called Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. But in that

954
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: book there is an article on that very thing, on

955
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: like your mental makeup when you when you lay in

956
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: bed to go to go to sleep, and the mental

957
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: snowballs that occur that affects you start thinking about what

958
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: you have to do tomorrow. You start, I think, and

959
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: and it literally is just a snowball that that rolls downhill.

960
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 1: And I kid you not. I read that book when

961
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: I was twenty one years old, and for no real

962
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: reason was that small chapter in there, Like it wasn't

963
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: given to me to help me sleep. But I think

964
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: it was given to me to help me learn to

965
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: let some things go. And I'm telling you, like those

966
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: three pages in that book changed my life in terms

967
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: of my quality of life and sleep. Like I've I've

968
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: gone to bed the night before the Rose Bowl, I've

969
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: gone to bed before games and and all sorts of

970
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: stuff and slept like a baby. As those couple of

971
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 1: pages I read in that book. So Murray State you

972
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: had to go to because you'd already burned your red

973
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: shirt here correct, Yeah, so I had two years left.

974
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: I was in a weird situation. First of all, I

975
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: didn't know anything, Like there's no one Double A football

976
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma. So at the time, I don't know the

977
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: difference between Division two, Division one, Double A, Division three.

978
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't know the difference between

979
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: U c O and Missouri State. And I've got no

980
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: clumb completely ignorant of the whole situation. And what I

981
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: really wanted is my year back. What I really wanted,

982
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: you know, Like I was close to graduation, Like I

983
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: was a pretty like until we said earlier, I was

984
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: a pretty serious student, and so I have been getting

985
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: after it in the classroom and summer school and all

986
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. So I was pretty close to

987
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: to getting my degree in business and finance, and you know,

988
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 1: I thought about sticking it out, but I couldn't make

989
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: it in a year. I couldn't graduate any you know,

990
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't make it in three years. I could have

991
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: made it in three and a half. So anyway, I

992
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: was in a weird situation with only two years Agogabilly left.

993
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: We tried to ask the n c A to give

994
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: me my year and that didn't work. So um, you know,

995
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: I had an opportunity. I could have gone back to

996
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: Tulsa and not played a year and tried to play

997
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: for one year. But it's like I told my parents,

998
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, when we were having this discussion, Like Mom, Dad,

999
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: I only got two more years of playing this game,

1000
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: you know, like I may never play another down after

1001
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm done, and I can't give up one of those years.

1002
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: You know, we only get twelve games or whatever it is.

1003
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: So um. Denver Johnson was the head coach at Murray

1004
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: State and he had been the old line coach at

1005
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: Oklahoma for one year under John Blake, and he had

1006
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: been their college roommate of Bill Blankets Ship so um,

1007
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: I went to Murray and showed up the day before

1008
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: school started. Um and twenty one years old and moved

1009
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: into a dry county and moved back in the dorms

1010
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: and um, and you've been in Oklahoma night. And I

1011
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: tell you this was where I had to grow up

1012
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: because I went went to Union High School my whole

1013
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: life and then went to Oh You. And I'm not

1014
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: saying I was the most popular person, That's what I'm saying.

1015
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I knew a lot of people,

1016
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, like it was easy. Social interactional was easy.

1017
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: A bunch of kids from Union went to to Oh You,

1018
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: like I just I knew a lot of people. And

1019
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: I walked into the merche stand I didn't know all

1020
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: one person. And my coach tried to do me a

1021
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: favor and he got me hooked up in the dorm

1022
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: because I showed up the day before. I didn't have

1023
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: time to get an apartment or anything. I should literally

1024
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: showed up the day before they put me in the dorm.

1025
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: But they put me in the dorm by myself, so

1026
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: I had no roommate. So he's trying to hook me up, right, like, yeah,

1027
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, well, I was worse, and I don't know anybody,

1028
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: and I remember that the cafeteria was just out our

1029
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: outer window. Like for three days, I didn't go into

1030
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: the cafeteria because I didn't want to sit by myself.

1031
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: I was too embarrassed to go sit by myself. But

1032
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: I got hungry enough that I went in after to eat.

1033
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: But my point is I had never been that person.

1034
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: I've never been. I've never been uncomfortable before. I've never

1035
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: been the new guy. I'd never I've never I never

1036
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: had to go introduced myself for like start a conversation

1037
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: with somebody. It was a completely new world for me,

1038
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: and I really had to grow up socially in order

1039
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: to It was really a good developmental thing for me

1040
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: that I don't know if it would ever happened had

1041
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: it had it not happened there. It's interesting because so

1042
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: I I held back in eighth grade, grew then went

1043
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: to a high school in a different districts. So I

1044
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: went through that then, Uh, Notre Dame. You meet a

1045
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: couple of people before you go, but went through it

1046
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: with Notre Dame, went through it with I went to

1047
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: a bunch of different schools, kind of growing up just

1048
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: for myriad of reasons. So but I so I know

1049
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: that feeling, and I do think it's actually a really

1050
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: healthy thing. It's just it's it's tough for him. Yeah,

1051
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like my first, my first this is how

1052
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: I met Matt Holiday, how we became friends, was my

1053
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: first day in still Water. I just I was so

1054
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: excited to get out there that I drove to Lake

1055
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: have a Sux and had a buddy that was out

1056
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: Lake have a suit Sweetwater skiing jet ski for a day.

1057
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: I was supposed to stay the weekend and then you know,

1058
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: like Sunday, like take off for Oklahoma late Saturday night

1059
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: or something. I just I took off on like a Thursday,

1060
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: drove straight through, got there, went up and saw a

1061
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: coach and he was just like, you know, nobody's around,

1062
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: so maybe you want to go to the high school game.

1063
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: They got a kid, daddy's the baseball coach is gonna

1064
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: be the quarterback. So I went and saw him play

1065
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: and help people grab me. I went down and met

1066
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: him and he kind of blew me off. Whatever. We've

1067
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: been friends ever since. But it was the same thing

1068
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: where I was in you know, small town US A

1069
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: kind of like Muric Kentucky and you don't know anybody.

1070
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: You just like went me in direction to somebody who

1071
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: likes sports, and I'll be your friend. And it's like, uh, like,

1072
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: I think one of the challenges. And I deal with

1073
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: this with my kids because we've moved a little bit,

1074
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, and like trying to encourage them and tell them.

1075
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: I think they're much more empathetic to other people now

1076
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: having been through that, you know. Like I listened to

1077
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 1: the girls, my girls when they come home and they

1078
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: talk about a new student showing up in their class,

1079
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: and I think they just have a better understanding of that.

1080
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: It's like probably about anything, some of it's good for you,

1081
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: build some character. Too much of it's probably not good

1082
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: for you. But um, trying to stay true to yourself

1083
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: while you're trying to fit in a totally new group

1084
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: is an interesting dynamic, right, Like not getting into some

1085
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: other things that you normally wouldn't get into just to

1086
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: fit in with the new group. I think is, you know,

1087
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: in an important dynamic and all that stuff. What was

1088
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: the football like, Emory? It was great. I loved it,

1089
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: I mean I really did. I Mean we had really

1090
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: a pretty good team. We had a bunch of Division

1091
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: one transfers. Some of them were convicts, Um most of them, Um,

1092
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 1: we're all of them were good guys that I enjoyed

1093
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 1: being around. Um I had to. I had to really

1094
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: a really good, good experience there and a lot of

1095
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: fun and UM, you know, I am not proud Murray

1096
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: State alone. That place was there for me when I needed, um,

1097
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: a place to go and something to do, and really

1098
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: where I grew up. You know, like I became at

1099
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: least less at least more socially comfortable person through through

1100
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: going through my experience there. Why when is Murray football

1101
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: generally good? Uh, it's okay. You know they're basketball team.

1102
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: Why why have they been able to make it work

1103
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: in basketball? I don't know. They've been good for so long.

1104
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: I've I had so many good coaches there. They've got

1105
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: a nice facility there. I don't know why they've been good,

1106
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: um for so long. I don't know what the secret is,

1107
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: but they mean they were good when I was there,

1108
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 1: and they've been obviously jobs. It's interesting cause now we're

1109
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: I want to get to it. You get into coaching,

1110
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 1: because one of the things you mentioned about Oklahoma is

1111
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 1: something and I know it's not going well for jimbo

1112
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: at A and M, but I I thought something he

1113
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: said when he got the job is noting we both

1114
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: know to be true. But you proved to be true

1115
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,919
Speaker 1: with what happened to Oklahoma where he talked about you can't.

1116
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 1: It's so hard to win in any sport, football, especially

1117
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: unless everybody's pulling the same direction. Everybody's got the same agenda, right,

1118
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: And almost every story you'll hear about when things went

1119
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: bad was just too many chefs in the kitchen, multiple agendas, right.

1120
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: And the hard thing now for college sports is a

1121
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: lot of these kids don't have the we we went

1122
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: to college, it was just about beating your arch rival,

1123
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: winning a league championship, maybe competing for something bigger than that.

1124
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: Right now it's about a million other things other than

1125
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: that and some of that um. But it's always interesting

1126
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: on how if if you look at each school that

1127
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: has been successful with people pulling in the same direction. So, so, okay,

1128
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: you did did you or did you not play? Was

1129
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: it irinaly? You're gonna pay I graduated in December and

1130
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: finished my last year, and I had good seasons. Was

1131
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: a finalist. Walter Payton award and that sort of stuff

1132
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: and then got invited to the combine. So, um, I

1133
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: went to the combine and who is in my group

1134
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: but Tom Brady and so all of those pictures and

1135
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: everything that you see every year, Like I I'm standing

1136
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: right off to the side watching that whole thing, and um,

1137
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: do you have a room? Do you have a comment?

1138
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: You have a roommate? I did? It was Tim Lester

1139
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: who went on to be the head coach. He played

1140
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: at Western Michigan and he went on to be the

1141
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: head coach there. Um um, so we we did, we

1142
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: did the did the combine and how how did you do? Oh?

1143
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: I was terrible. I was. I mean for me, I

1144
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: was great, but compared to everybody else, I was not.

1145
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 1: You know, I was yeah. Like so Tom Brady is like,

1146
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm six too, and he's three and ath

1147
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: inches at least taller than I. But I mean, this

1148
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: is a this is a long, tall person. And I'm

1149
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: just gonna tell you, like, nobody knew he was gonna

1150
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: be what he what he was, Okay, nobody, But like

1151
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: when I went through at the combine, and um, we

1152
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: were throwing two receivers that we've never thrown two, and

1153
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: you're throwing a slant route and you're throwing an end

1154
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: route and all this first stuff. And let's just say,

1155
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: on paper, hypothetically, let's say let's say I was nine

1156
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: for ten in completions, and let's say Tom Brady was

1157
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,919
Speaker 1: nine for ten and completions at the combine. I'm gonna

1158
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: tell you my nine we're like here, here, here, and

1159
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: here in His nine were like right there. I mean

1160
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 1: it was it was pretty remarkable accuracy. Um. But anyway,

1161
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: so I didn't get drafted, and I knocked around trying

1162
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: to play. I played arena ball, and then the next

1163
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 1: year I got a call from the Giants and I

1164
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: and I flew to New York. Sean Payton was the

1165
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator. And I think they were gonna send a

1166
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: guy to the World League. I think is what they're

1167
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 1: gonna do. They want to sign a quarterback and I

1168
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: think they're gonna send him to whatever it was called

1169
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: at the time. I think it was the World And

1170
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: so I worked out for the Giants, and I mean

1171
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: I had been training, I mean I have. I was

1172
01:06:56,520 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: in great jade, and I ran and I threw and

1173
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, and this is this is me. This

1174
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: is the best that I got, you know, And they

1175
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 1: gave me my plane ticket home, and I remember, literally

1176
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: I can't remember, like sai yesterday, sitting on the bus

1177
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: with a couple of other players that come to work

1178
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: out on the way back to the airport, and I

1179
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: remember the song that was on the buses radio when

1180
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: I realized but that I was no longer a player,

1181
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: and it was Zapp and Roger I Want to be

1182
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 1: Your Man was playing on the on the deal and

1183
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 1: and I released. It wasn't some at least was some. No,

1184
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't like some sad, sad deal. But I remember

1185
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: taking this is it. I'm gonna have to go do

1186
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: something else, and um so that was kind of the

1187
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: end of the football dream there. So I gave it

1188
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,479
Speaker 1: about a year before we get the way Wait you

1189
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 1: you you you really glossed over Arenaly Okay, what was

1190
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 1: su Arena League is incredible? So um it was. I

1191
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: loved it. I thought I was like the greatest job ever.

1192
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: So they pay all your bills and put you up

1193
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: in a furnished department. For me, We're in Oklahoma City,

1194
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 1: which was cool for me because I went to Oklahoma

1195
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: City and now all my friends that stayed at oh

1196
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: You are graduating. So I graduate Marie State, basically go

1197
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: to the Combine, live in California, little By, go to Combine,

1198
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: and and then end up in Oklahoma City playing for

1199
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: the Wranglers, and um, all my buddies are graduating from college,

1200
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: so it's perfect. So um we practiced in Edmund and

1201
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 1: the practice was like an indoor soccer deal. I don't

1202
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: never forget this. It was right next to a dog

1203
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: food processing plant. Everything smells like marina. Yeah, you just

1204
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: it's just if you can imagine just open up a

1205
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: fresh backa dog flot and stick your head inside of it.

1206
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: That's exactly what everything smells like. Your clothes smell like that.

1207
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: We practiced in there every day. Every day was practice

1208
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: and I walk in there and I'm not even on

1209
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: the active roster. I'm just I'm on the team and

1210
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: like the third day were there. Bob Quirtis is the

1211
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: head coach, and like the the thirty five year old

1212
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: defensive end who's been in there in ren League for

1213
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: I don't know how long, married and got three kids.

1214
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm twenty four years old. I'm like, you know, we're like,

1215
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: let's go play golf and you know, what are we

1216
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: doing tonight? And he's like standing in the locker room

1217
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: just mf ing the head coach. The head coach just

1218
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 1: m finging back. I'm like what, like what are we doing?

1219
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: Like what is this deal? So um yeah, like holy God,

1220
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 1: he's calling him Bob, He's not calling him coach, you know,

1221
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: And I'm like, holy craft. But I played a lot

1222
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: of golf. Um, I think Silver Horn is where we

1223
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 1: played golf. Little right there, we played golf every day.

1224
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: Power the power lines like yes, yes, yep, yep, so

1225
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: we got free golf at Silver Horn. We played golf.

1226
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: I actually got a little bored, like um, they the

1227
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: head coach kept me there in the off season, which

1228
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: was kind of cool. So I got to stay in

1229
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 1: train in the off season and that's when I got

1230
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: to work out for the Giants. But I started going

1231
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 1: to to grad school at night, which is kind of

1232
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 1: fun for me. My parents helped me pay for it

1233
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: because I don't have any money, so we had UM.

1234
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 1: I started to work on my m b A at night,

1235
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 1: um at o U and down in downtown Oklaoma City,

1236
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: so I would come in there. It was pretty cool,

1237
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: like I would come in there and all these people

1238
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 1: had real jobs, so these people were like bankers and whatever.

1239
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: And I would come in like in foot flops and

1240
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 1: a T shirt and go suit in the class and

1241
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 1: really really enjoyed it. And I did pretty well and

1242
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. But I didn't finish because, Um, after about

1243
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: a year, I got a call from Denver Johnson had

1244
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: been my coach at Murray State, and he was the

1245
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 1: head coach at Illinois State, and he was asking if

1246
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to come to the quarterback coach. So so

1247
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: you okay, So you're on your You're on your way

1248
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: home from the giants. It's funny remember that song, because

1249
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 1: so my my story is this. Um. After after college,

1250
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 1: I played the USB L. Then I played the NBA

1251
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: Summer League that I was supposed to play in Italy,

1252
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: playing an Israeli passport. Long story anyway, Uh, I come

1253
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: back and I go to the camp with the Idaho

1254
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 1: Stampete and C B A. And the reason I chose

1255
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: Idaho was my USBL coach, Dannim Brian Gates now a

1256
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:58,759
Speaker 1: long time NBA assistant, and he was assistant under Rory White,

1257
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: and he's like d G don't worry. I know you'll

1258
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: make this team. So I go to Boise, Idaho for

1259
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: training camp and there's thirteen other point guards mine and

1260
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 1: they drafted one of them actually from Murray State, Aubrey Reese.

1261
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 1: Very good play, um, and then they had Darry McClinton

1262
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 1: who had been there year before. They had a bunch

1263
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: of other really good guards, but eventually got weeded down.

1264
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 1: Was the three of us, and Aubrey got hurt, so

1265
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 1: then there was only two of us, and Um, I

1266
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 1: had I thought I was gonna make the team. They

1267
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: kind of told me I was to make the teams.

1268
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: And we used to every day to go to practice.

1269
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: We get on this like hotel bus, you know, like

1270
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: one of those short bus deals, and we'd open up

1271
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 1: the Idaho American Statesman and on the back of it

1272
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 1: was to remember the transaction wire. And so NBA camps

1273
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: were coming to an end, and they would have guys

1274
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: that would get released, and so it would be a

1275
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 1: massive ball busting session of like, oh man, look who

1276
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 1: got released. He's gonna take someone a joke. But so

1277
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: I never get this, like when like the last day

1278
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: of camp and we opened it up and there's a

1279
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 1: there's a guy named Randy Livingston. So Randy Livingston, when

1280
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: I was a high school junior, was the best player

1281
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: in America. He was six ft four since five point

1282
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: guard from New Orleans. He tours a c L in

1283
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 1: the camp as a counselor. So he didn't have a

1284
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 1: great college career. L s U only two years. I

1285
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 1: think he played for like thirteen NBA teams. So I'll

1286
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: never get like, We're in the back of this bus

1287
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 1: and we're looking at the paper and we're busting everybody's balls, like, oh,

1288
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 1: Randy Livingston, and it was like DJ boy Guard go get.

1289
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, Randy Livingston in coming to fucking Boise, Idaho,

1290
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 1: you know. So sure enough, the next day we're doing um,

1291
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: we have media day and we're in the arena where

1292
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: they actually play, and I've never been in the arena.

1293
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: I actually played, so it's cool, and I made the team.

1294
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: The assistant coach comes over and says, hey, you're you're

1295
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 1: h I had gotten married to your wife, my girlfriend.

1296
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:07,719
Speaker 1: They should take a you haul together making all these plans,

1297
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: and right at the end, I looked down and you know,

1298
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what they call it on a football stadium,

1299
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: and the basketball's a vomitory and rights the tunnel that

1300
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:18,640
Speaker 1: leads to the locker room. We look down and I

1301
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 1: see a guy in raying Livingson is a very distinct

1302
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: looking dude. He's six forces five, black dude, bald head,

1303
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: has kind of a weird shaped head neck. And I

1304
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: swear to God, I saw him, and I and like

1305
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 1: they were Then they started fucking with me. Then they're like,

1306
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: you're just seeing ghosts. You know, you're just all messed up.

1307
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: We're finally in your head. It's like, no, dude, I'm

1308
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: telling I saw him. I saw Jesus, I saw the bigfoot.

1309
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: I saw him right. So we have a scrimmage that

1310
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 1: night with College of Southern Idaho Junior College, and again

1311
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 1: on the bus and then we get we warm up

1312
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 1: and I'm the only guy who doesn't play, and I

1313
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: thought I was competing to be the starting point guard

1314
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: and I'm the only guy doesn't play, and they don't

1315
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: say anything to me, and then you know, it became

1316
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: obvious by the time I got home. You know that

1317
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get cut, and sure enough, Brady Limison was

1318
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,759
Speaker 1: the guy. So I and so I don't remember the song.

1319
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: I remember the paper, I remember where we were sitting.

1320
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 1: I remember that moment where like, holy sh it, I'm

1321
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: getting all right. That's part one. Wait do you hear

1322
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: part two? It gets better and better. My thanks for

1323
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: Coach fent Day, for join us, thanks for you to download.

1324
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 1: You remember the Doug Gottlieb Show is daily uh that

1325
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: is uh three to five Eastern time, and we have

1326
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 1: a bonus podcast which there are no rules for it's

1327
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 1: called in the bonus. But my thanks for you for listening.

1328
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: Don't forget to write a review, download review and tell

1329
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: a friend about it, all right, tell a friend about it.

1330
01:15:47,160 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball number Timber, the

1331
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,600
Speaker 1: Timber Temper Temper