1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. This week we talked about the 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: Great Fear of seventeen eighty nine. Yeah. So when I 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: saw this paper when I was working on stuff for OnEarth, 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I don't think we've ever talked 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: about this particular thing. It sounds really interesting and I 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: think it would be good to talk about it. And 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: so instead of putting this paper in Unearthed, I will 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: do a whole episode about it. And then when I started, 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: like when I went to actually put it on the calendar, 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: I kind of went, Tracy, you know, this means you're 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: going to need to talk about the beginnings of the 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: French Revolution, which always turns out to be harder than 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be. It's complex. It's one of 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: the most complex parts of history for us. Yeah, it's 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: really and it's deceptively simple sounding if what you are 18 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: thinking about is the things that come up as highlights 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, like the tennis court oath 20 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: and the you know, eventual overthrowing of the monarchy and 21 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: eventually their executions. Like that kinds of stuff is sort 22 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: of easy to visualize. But like, in addition to all 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: the stuff involving the common people, the nobility and the 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,639 Speaker 1: clergy also had their own issues going on. We didn't 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: touch on any of that really at all. Yeah, and 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: that would have been a whole other episode than the 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: Great Fear episode. Every time I write something where I'm 28 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: going to have to detail the beginnings of the French Revolution, 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm like this every time. It's difficult. Yeah, yeah, I've 30 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: done it enough times one would think it might get easier. No, No, 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: every time it could be a completely different episode depending 32 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: on which parts of it were focusing on. This is 33 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: one of those pieces of history that makes me think 34 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: of men in Black. Oh yeah, yeah, because there's that 35 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: great quote that Tommy Lee Jones gives at the end 36 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: of it. A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, 37 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: dangerous animals, and you know it. Yeah, It's like, I 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: understand how these people would have gotten panicked and freaked 39 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: out to the point that they would see a cloud 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: of dust from a herd of animals and be like, oh, moldieu, 41 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: we're being attacked. Like I understand because you're just trying 42 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: to protect what you have, and if you have very little, 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: it becomes very very important to protect it. Yeah, I 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: get how that panic happens. Yeah. I had a quote 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: by a historian called Henry Bertram Hill. This is from 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: a paper that I think was published back in the 47 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties or sixties, and he described this the Great 48 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: Fear as a phenomenon as quote, a spontaneous and organized 49 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: movement fanned by rumor, hunger, uncertainty, and what was at 50 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: least can see as oppression. And I was like, yeah, 51 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: that does sum it up sort of the atmosphere that 52 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: was leading to all of this. One of the things 53 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: that was challenging about this is the writing that's specifically 54 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: focused on it. It's kind of limited in how much 55 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: of it there is. I did get the English language 56 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: translation of George Lefebre's book on the Great Fear that 57 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: was translated into English in nineteen seventy three. I know 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: of one other book length treatment just of this which 59 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: I did not get. It was focused mostly on I 60 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: think a specific region of France. But a lot of 61 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: the other stuff that I read, whether it was journal 62 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: articles or I mean journal articles specifically for a lot 63 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: of it. A lot of it is just like really 64 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: detailed and in the weeds and is looking at like 65 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: like the reports of peasant uprising in like one specific 66 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: region and looking at them in hyper hyper scrutiny based 67 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: on the information that we have available today. And I 68 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: was like, that's this is not really helping me talk 69 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: about this like as a phenomenon in a way that's 70 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: going to be understandable to our predominantly English speaking audience, 71 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: who the incredibly large majority of does not live in France, 72 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: and I would say has never been to France and 73 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: has no frame of reference for all of these different 74 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: villages and towns that are being named. Like this is 75 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: like a lot of detail about a tiny little piece 76 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: of it that is not translating into what I can 77 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: make into an episode, which made it kind of difficult 78 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: to work on. And then also the parallels to things 79 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: that we still experienced today made it frustrating to work on. Yeah, 80 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: some of this really reminded me of how a random 81 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: person can say something on social media, totally random person. 82 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: Probably it could be a bot, but like, let's just 83 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: assume that it is an actual person. Random person with 84 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: sixty seven followers says a wild thing on social media, 85 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: and then it gets picked up as an example of 86 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: something in the traditional media, and now the talking point 87 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: has become that this weird, fringe thing that a person 88 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: said on X or something is like a widely held view, 89 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: and then that gets reinforced as the view that really 90 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: is the predominant thing based on something a random person 91 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: said that got picked up in a news article. Yeah, 92 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: and it self replicates because then people will read it 93 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, that sounds reasonable, I agree with that, 94 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: and then it becomes a thing that more than more 95 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: people believe. Yeah. And that is how I felt about 96 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the way that the Great Fear was 97 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: spreading around a panicked person saying the brigands are coming, 98 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: and then somebody writing to their delegate at the National 99 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: Constituent Assembly saying we need help, and then that letter 100 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: getting read in front of the National Constituent Assembly, and 101 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: now this is a serious issue. It has been read 102 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: before the National Constituent Assembly. Yea. And living with that 103 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: kind of rapid information misinformation spreading really is exhausting, Frankly. 104 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: In addition to the random social media comments becoming supposedly 105 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: a representative view of what large numbers of people think. 106 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: We're now seeing this with AI videos. Oh man, the 107 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: recent launch of tools for making AI videos has just 108 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: led to so many videos that, if you are not 109 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: paying attention, might seem like a real thing, but if 110 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: you look closely as obviously not a real thing. But 111 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: they are being circulated incredibly widely before somebody is able 112 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: to like film a response video going that horse's leg 113 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: clips through the car right right or whatever. And all 114 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: of this is like at us point when we are 115 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: all as a as a mass, highly susceptible to it 116 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: because everyone is on edge already. Yeah, yeah, which makes 117 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: it worse and worse. And I'm not to start my 118 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: own conspiracy theory, but I believe there are people that 119 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: are trading on that knowledge that people are on edge 120 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: and scared, and it is easy to get their attention 121 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: and get them to buy into something that either confirms 122 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: that their fear is legitimate or yeah, you know anyway. Yeah, 123 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: one of the things that I kept thinking about as 124 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: I was writing this wasn't actually one of the things 125 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: from the very immediate past or like what's going on 126 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: right in this moment, but it was from a few 127 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: years ago when suddenly on social media a lot of 128 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: people were complaining about how many people in their neighborhoods 129 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: were setting off fireworks. Uh huh, and a lot of 130 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: people seem to genuinely believe that the CIA was distributing 131 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: fireworks to people in order to disrupt everybody's sleep and 132 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: keep them on edge. Oh I missed this one entirely. Yeah, 133 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: I feel like this was This might have been in 134 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: the stay at Home Order era of COVID if I'm 135 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: remembering correctly. I mean, my memory is a sieve at 136 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: this point, so I could be conflating multiple different things. 137 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: But it was like or other people were then like 138 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: or or It's June and Independence Day is coming up, 139 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: and people are getting a jump on that because we're 140 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: all bored and tired of you know, so many people 141 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: being stuck in their houses and so many other people 142 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: still working every day because they're considered essential, and like 143 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: not having outlets for any of the stresses that are happening. Yeah. Yeah, Listen, 144 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: our neighborhood is always a high firework arena. So I'm like, right, 145 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: that's just Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I'm glad we 146 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: got to talk about this. I hope to not revisit 147 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: the beginning of the French Revolution for a while because 148 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: it makes him tired. It's a lot. I don't know 149 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: if we have ever done an episode that was specifically 150 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: focused on, like what the aristocracy's issues were, No, not 151 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: really going into the French Revolution, I don't like. I 152 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: think a lot of the episodes have been focused mostly 153 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: on the common people and the lack of bread and 154 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: the bread prices and all of that stuff. Yeah, we've 155 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: definitely touched on stuff that touches the aristocracy, but it's 156 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: in a secondary way, like great, Like I'll talk about 157 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: Leonard Berutier, Marie Antoinette's hairdresser all day long, but oh right, 158 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: and his how it affected him, but it's not really 159 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: talking about what was going on. Yeah, more broadly within 160 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: the aristocracy. Yeah, what were the grievances of the nobility? Yeah, 161 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: we talked about Clarence Bird's Eye this week. Yep. He 162 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: is fascinating to me. I feel like he and I 163 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: could not be buddies. No. I know that's a weird 164 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: metric to use when studying people in history, but you 165 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: kind of can't help it right to be like, yeah, 166 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: this is a person I would like to hang out with. 167 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: He was often very funny, and by all accounts people 168 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: loved him. He was very personable. But yeah, he just 169 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: he seemed like an odd, strange person. The animal thing 170 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: is the problem for me, but I do feel some 171 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: kinships with him. One of the cute things that came 172 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: up in that ker Lanscape biography is that when he 173 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: was in high school, I think it was he got 174 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: the nickname bugs because he likes to look at bugs. Okay, 175 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: I don't know why. I find that very funny. Hey, bugs, 176 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: and it's not bugs, bunny, it's literally insects. That's great. 177 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: We mentioned in the episode that he was not a 178 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: particularly big sharer of emotions. There are not really any 179 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: indicators about his feelings on politics. He was not it 180 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like religious, but he was often worked, like 181 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: with missionary groups and stuff like. He had no problem 182 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: with that. So he clearly didn't have any big feelings 183 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: in terms of anything being okay or not. He was 184 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: not very emotive. Even in letters where he's writing to 185 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: his family about things like his relationship with Eleanor, he's 186 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: very low key about it, like they got married on 187 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: the quick. He didn't really tell a lot of people 188 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: ahead of time. It was just like, yesterday I was 189 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: a bachelor and today I am a husband, and this 190 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: is just what it is, so okay, let's keep going. Yeah, 191 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: and of course we talked about him, not really talking 192 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: a lot about his work on Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever 193 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: other than being like, man, I got to hunt all 194 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah. I his name had come up in 195 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: the Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever research and I had sort 196 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: of put him on my tentative list because I was like, oh, 197 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: that's an interesting and unusual, unexpected connection to go from 198 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever to all of this frozen food stuff. 199 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: So then I was glad that you snagged it for yours. Yeah, 200 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: he's been on my list for a minute, and I 201 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: didn't even think about it possibly being on yours. So 202 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry I did not check in with you on 203 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: that one. Usually we do. It had only been on 204 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: mine for literal a minute, not a figurative. That being said, 205 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: he did say some very funny things once when he 206 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: was living in Labrador and he was encountering huskies the 207 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: dog for the first time. His description of them howling 208 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: was that it sounded like a large crowd on election night, okay, 209 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 1: which is kind of a great way to describe there woooing. Yeah, yeah, 210 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: you've ever been around huskies, that's no joke. They are 211 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: talkative and it's loud. He was so interested in so 212 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: many things, and that part of him I identify with 213 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: and like, like, while his home was being built in Gloucester, 214 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: when he had money to build a huge house, he 215 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: took up photography and he took photographs of a lot 216 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: of things, but he took like ongoing black and white 217 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: photos of the house as it was being built, so 218 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: he had this beautiful record of it going from the 219 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: ground to this immense mansion, which just kind of cool. 220 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: He also was very fascinated with this thing that he 221 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: witnessed when he was in Labrador, which was fish being 222 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: frozen alive and then defrosted and swimming again. Oh okay, 223 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: And I didn't put it in the episode because I 224 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: already was like, we're already in whaling and killing things 225 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: and I don't need to add more. But he did 226 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: a lot of experiments in this space, which I just 227 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: find weird, Right, I'm not comfortable with it. Yeah, people are, 228 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: I know sh what other kookie things when he and 229 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: Eleanor were in Labrador. This one's weird to me. She 230 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: hit at one point because we mentioned she'd like fell 231 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: right into that lifestyle, got really good at hunting. At 232 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: one point she had shot a moose that they dressed 233 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: and frozen. They ate off of it for a really 234 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: long time, and the last piece that was left, which 235 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: they apparently moved around with and kept it frozen, was 236 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: the moose neck, which birds I said he had not 237 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: wanted to eat because he did not like it when 238 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: he had had moose neck in Labrador when he was 239 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: living there. But as he was thinking about frosted foods 240 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: and frozen foods, he thought, I wonder what's up with 241 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: that moose neck, and he defrosted it and cooked it 242 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: and said it was delicious and very tender after four years. Okay, 243 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: to which I say, not one of this information discusses freezerberg. 244 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: But that's a difference, right right. I also love the 245 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: fact and identify with the fact that he, unlike many people, 246 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: loved change, which I do too, you know, whereas a 247 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: lot of people would be like, hey, our industry is fine, 248 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: we know how we're doing this and he's like, yeah, 249 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: but you could update your equipment and everything could be 250 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: easier and better. He had this quote that he apparently 251 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: said all the time, which is that there is always 252 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: a better way of doing almost everything, which I kind 253 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: of love, but also sometimes people don't want change, and 254 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, right, I feel like he was a 255 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: little dogged in not ever giving up on ideas of 256 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: like changing things. But my other point of identification is 257 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: that when he and Eleanor lived in Peru, they had 258 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: zero boundaries about what animals they would take in his pets, 259 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: so no, no. They adopted two baby foxes, which kind 260 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: of harkened back to when they lived in Labrador. One 261 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: of them didn't live past its very early stage because 262 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: they had been found kind of abandoned as two kids, 263 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: but the other one lived with them a long time. 264 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: They had caught a penguin while out fishing, and he 265 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: took the penguin home and made it a pet. They 266 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: had a deer that lived in the house, which I 267 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: may or may not have experience with. They had a parrot, 268 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: like they just adopted a Kajulian animals and I'm like, 269 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: I get it, But then I mean, there's a weird 270 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: dichotomy in behavior because he loved nature but had no 271 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: It seems like he did not have the level of 272 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: emotional attachment that like I would have to it certainly right, yeah, 273 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, like I can't imagine nursing baby foxes back 274 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: to health and loving them and then being like, you're 275 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: gonna make a great pelt, like I can't, oh, which 276 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: he would be fine with and which is, like, to 277 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: be clear, not an uncommon approach to animal care, you know. 278 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: Having talked to like members of my family that grew 279 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: up on farms in the you know, forties and fifties, 280 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: they similarly would be like, oh, we had to sit 281 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: with that cow overnight because it was so sick, And 282 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, were you bonded forever? No, we 283 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: took it to market. Like I just can't. I can't 284 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: imagine it, just not to dog on anybody that lives 285 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: in a way in which you have to care for 286 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: animals and they are part of your livelihood and food. 287 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I eat meat. I'm always working on it, 288 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: but I just can't imagine being like I love this 289 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: penguin in, this deer that we've adopted. Time to go 290 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: back to New York. Like, I don't know what happened 291 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: to those animals, right, I can't remember if I've told 292 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: this story before, But when I was a kid, my 293 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: brother was allergic to cow's milk, and so we were 294 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: getting our we were getting goat milk from a goat 295 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: farmer who was friends with my parents. And they had 296 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: the problem of like the first year that they had 297 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: the goats. I mean, they had goats that were they 298 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: were getting milk from, but they also had goats that 299 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: were being raised for slaughter, and when it was time 300 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: to do that, it was awful. And so after that experience, 301 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: they started naming them things that would like remind them 302 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: that this was what was going to happen, so that 303 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: they had names like Amos freezer meat. And another thing 304 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: is a lot of wild animals that are really cute 305 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: don't make good pets. Yeah, and like there is a 306 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: real problem with people getting wild like animals today that 307 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: and then being like, oh this is this is it 308 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: is not working to have a raccoon inside of my 309 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 1: house with me. Yeah. I mean there are people that 310 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: are like wildlife rehabbers who can handle it and understand 311 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: the job, but the average person is not prepared for it. Yeah, 312 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of the rehabbers that are rehabbing these 313 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: animals are rehabbing them because they were inappropriately taken into 314 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: like a pet situation. Yeah. Yeah, so please don't do that. Listen, 315 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: it's tempting. Do I love my deck raccoons? Yes? Do 316 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: they get to come in the house? No? Do they 317 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: If they interact? If they are become too aware of us, 318 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: we stop feeding them because you don't want them to 319 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: become dependent. Right, I'm just happy to help a single 320 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: mom out now and again with a little little dish 321 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: of boiled eggs. It's hard. I understand the impulse. I 322 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: deeply understand the impulse to want to be snow white 323 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: and collect all the animals to you. Uh huh. I 324 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: can't imagine all of those animals did. Okay, yeah, yeah, 325 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: I think I might have said this previously on the show, 326 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: but I recently blocked an account on TikTok that had 327 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: these videos of someone feeding a bear on their deck. 328 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: It turned out that it was an AI video. Anything 329 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: you see that says Sora that has Sora branding, that 330 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: is AI. That's not a real thing. So this was 331 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: not a real person. Or a real bear. Still very 332 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: dangerous to feed bears and to promote the idea of 333 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: feeding bears. But I was like, yeah, I'm just I'm 334 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: not having this in my life block. No, No, bears 335 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: are legitimately dangerous. Yeah, and they don't understand that the 336 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: next door neighbor who was not feeding the bears is 337 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: a different person whose deck they should not go get 338 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: on expecting food. Yeah, anyway, I have feelings about these 339 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: things animals. I sure eat a lot of frozen foods. 340 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: I have feelings about that, do I also, yeah, I 341 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: was not kidding when I said just yesterday I bought 342 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: some frozen food I brought. I bought frozen bees and 343 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: frozen at amamise and little ice cream. Yeah, I too bought. 344 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: I think I bought some yummy keenwe kale mixes for 345 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: quick and easy lunches. Throw a piece of grilled chicken 346 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: in there. I'm fed and it's fairly healthy. Great, I 347 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: love it. I love a little frozen food. I feel 348 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: like somebody might be upset that I put an s 349 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: on at a mammy. I was being silly. I think 350 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: I also bought some partially probably subconsciously inspired by this 351 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: episode some beyond beef forma. Yeah, I am ever trying 352 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: to get off of the animal proteins thing I think 353 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: we've talked about on the show before. Every time I 354 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: go completely off of them, I get a weird rash. 355 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: And I have done all of the nutritionist advice of 356 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: supplemental things, like usually they're like, oh, that's a vitamin 357 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: E deficiency, you can get it through these sources, and 358 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: they never work quite the same way. Yeah, So I'm 359 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: always always on the hunt for whatever I can that 360 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: will yeah, substitute and leave me not rash. Yeah, our household, 361 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: at least for my part, Like, there is some meat 362 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: in our food rotation, but there's also a lot of 363 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: tofu and a lot of beans and a lot of lentils. 364 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: And I recently had a doctor's appointment where it was 365 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: recommended that I add some more fatty fish into my diet, 366 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: which I did, and that seems to have made like 367 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: a measurable difference in multiple aspects of my health. So 368 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: as much as I try, I've like been trying to 369 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: reduce the animal protein, Like I feel like the fatty 370 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: fish is helping me. Yeah, I mean that's the trick, right, 371 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: especially as we get older. There are some nutrients that, yeah, 372 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: are just really hard for your body to get, yeah, 373 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: or to produce. Yeah, you know through other means. It's tricky. 374 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: It's a very tricky dance. I feel like every time 375 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: we talk about eating meat, people get irritated and say, 376 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: how can you say you love animals and you eat meat, 377 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: And I well, to tell you, the struggle is real. 378 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: We are also eating plant foods that are being farmed 379 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: and cared for by people who are horribly exploited. Yeah. Yeah, 380 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: it's never as clean a decision as anybody would like 381 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: it to be. Yea, unless you are growing all of 382 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: your own stuff, and I guess keeping chickens for eggs. Yeah, 383 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: it's hard. It's very hard. I do try to grow 384 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: most of our all of our lettuce at this point, 385 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: and quite a few veggies. But you know, the food 386 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: pipeline in the US is very complicated, yeah, and is wild. 387 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: I am certainly grateful that Clarence Bart's Eye lobbied for 388 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: more stringent laws regarding frozen food for sure and food safety. 389 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: He was doing it in part for marketability, because prior 390 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,479 Speaker 1: to that there was a lot of gross stuff getting 391 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: frozen and packaged for sale that when people thought it 392 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: out were like, what is this and he was trying 393 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: to rehab the image. But also that did benefit a 394 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: lot of people. So anyway, anyway, that's clearance bird's eye 395 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: as you know, foods and pets and the wailing problem. 396 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: We hope if this is your weekend coming up and 397 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: you have time off, that you spend it eating whatever 398 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: delights you the most and is nutritious for your body 399 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: and hopefully puts a smile on your face. If it's 400 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: not your weekend, I still hope you eat nutritious and 401 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: delicious things. I hope also that everybody is kind to 402 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: one another. We are in very stressful times and I 403 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: feel like everybody is on an anxiety hair trigger. So 404 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: anything we can do to help ourselves and others is 405 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: probably going to be a benefit. We will be right 406 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then on 407 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: Monday with something brand new. Stuff you missed in History 408 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 409 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 410 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.