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Speaker 1: Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to

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Speaker 2: Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and

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Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Mike, Where have we been? We did take

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Speaker 1: a very last minute trip this weekend for Up and Vanished, actually,

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Speaker 1: and I think that it was a very successful mission

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Speaker 1: and you'll learn more about that soon Top secret, Top

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Speaker 1: Secret Baby. Instead of having a conversation about the episode,

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Speaker 1: which the episode is basically a conversation in itself, just

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Speaker 1: to not leave you hanging, here's the teaser for the

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Speaker 1: next episode of Up and Vanished. Going into this season,

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Speaker 1: I told myself, I need to step out of my

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Speaker 1: comfort zone and do whatever I can within my legal

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Speaker 1: and own moral bounds to help find the truth about

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Speaker 1: what happened to Florence oc Piolock. All Rhodes led to

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Speaker 1: a man with the nickname Oregon John. He's got a

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Speaker 1: very bad rap sheet charges that include assault, sexual assault,

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Speaker 1: and cruelty to animals, and as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: Orgon John is the last person to have seen Flow alive.

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Speaker 1: In an effort to find the truth, I catfished Oregon

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Speaker 1: John on Facebook, pretending to be someone else where. Conversations

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Speaker 1: on Facebook Messenger eventually led to an in person meeting

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Speaker 1: at a bar in Ketchikan, Alaska. I met John face

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Speaker 1: to face and pretended I was somebody else, and over

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Speaker 1: the course of about two hours we learned details that,

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Speaker 1: in my mind, seemed to paint John as an even

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Speaker 1: more suspicious character. He had a bad answer for everything

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Speaker 1: in his own tall tales about how Flow was murdered

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Speaker 1: by another man and put inside a barrel under a

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Speaker 1: meth dealer's house and Nome. Was John actually tell the truth?

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Speaker 1: If he was, he made no effort in telling the

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Speaker 1: authorities this something pretty basic to do, especially if you're

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Speaker 1: considered a suspect. Instead, Oregon John fled Nome and he's

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Speaker 1: never stepped foot back there. Upon meeting John in person,

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Speaker 1: arguably my biggest fear in the moment was whether or

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Speaker 1: not John believed me. On more than one occasion, during

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Speaker 1: our conversation at the catch Acam bar, John mentioned that

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Speaker 1: a podcaster was investigating Flow's case. I'm pretty sure he's

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Speaker 1: talking about Up and Vanished. Through my own deductive reasoning,

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Speaker 1: I surmised that Kelly, not her real name, the woman

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Speaker 1: who had texted people about Flow's murder, had somehow relayed

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Speaker 1: to John that this podcast existed. It's my belief that

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Speaker 1: John was likely made aware of this podcast the day

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Speaker 1: before I met him, but he didn't do his research,

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Speaker 1: and though admittedly he was a little dubious about who

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Speaker 1: I really was, he'd already taken the bait. Had he

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Speaker 1: simply googled up and Vanished, he would have seen my

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Speaker 1: face immediately. I doubt our barn meeting would have ever

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Speaker 1: even happened, but it did, and I think that in

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Speaker 1: that moment, John fully believed that I was who I

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Speaker 1: said I was. But the whole thing is a complex

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Speaker 1: mind game. But part me wants to like play with fire.

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Speaker 1: There's no rule book for this, there's no blueprint for

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Speaker 1: how long I keep this ruse going. Did he know

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Speaker 1: who I really was and just meant me to try

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Speaker 1: to discreetly clear his name. Well, if he did, he failed,

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Speaker 1: and none of what he said seemed to redeem his

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Speaker 1: character at all. I tend to believe John may have

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Speaker 1: had his suspicions about me, but his own narcissism got

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Speaker 1: in the way. And on the off chance that I

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Speaker 1: was in fact this podcaster, he probably believed he could

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Speaker 1: talk his way out of this, but he failed. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he walked into my trap, and he exposed his true character.

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Speaker 1: The clock is sticking because sooner or later, just about

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Speaker 1: anyone can figure out that I'm doing a podcast about

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Speaker 1: this case. Is there value in seeing how he reacts

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Speaker 1: when I tell him that I tricked him? There's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a danger elem out there. I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of worried about it, to be honest. What are my

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Speaker 1: options here? I can keep playing along as this catfish,

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Speaker 1: but for how long? Maybe he smartens up, or maybe

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Speaker 1: he just shows us as true fucking colors. I almost

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Speaker 1: want to take a boulder stance here. It's just unknown territory.

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Speaker 1: But if I just pulled the cat out of the

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Speaker 1: bag in front of him, this guy is the biggest,

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Speaker 1: most annoying enigma. Do I push Oregon John even further?

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Speaker 1: Do I continue catfishing him? Or do I tell him

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Speaker 1: who I really am? If this guy became convinced that

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Speaker 1: he was going down, I think he'd feel very threatened

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Speaker 1: by that that shit is concerning. I went two months

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Speaker 1: with no contact. Then I opened up my fake Facebook

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Speaker 1: account and took another shot in the dark. He hadn't

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Speaker 1: messaged me in two months either. What does that mean exactly?

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Speaker 1: I took Andy's advice and I messaged him again as

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Speaker 1: this fake person. Okay, here goes nothing, I said. I

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Speaker 1: looked up that missing girl on Google and it says

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Speaker 1: they didn't find her yet. Did the FBI keep it

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Speaker 1: a secret? He read it. He's online right now and

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Speaker 1: in no time at all he read it. He's typing.

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Speaker 1: He simply said, I don't know. Well, okay, now where

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Speaker 1: I say? I replied and said, I feel like the

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Speaker 1: nome PD is in on it or something. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: find anything about the barrel they found under the house.

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Speaker 1: Are they the ones who found that? He read it

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Speaker 1: but didn't respond, I said, what should think? No response?

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Speaker 1: Feels like the tone is changing a bit. I sent

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Speaker 1: him a gift. It's a black and white video of

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Speaker 1: a kid from what looks like a nineteen forties movie,

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Speaker 1: just tapping his fingers waiting no response. Well, this is

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Speaker 1: going nowhere. Let me send them a screenshot of one

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Speaker 1: of Kelly's messages that mentions his name. He read it.

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Speaker 1: Now my messages aren't going through, he blocked me. Classic.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest is a very talented Emmy Award winning journalist.

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Speaker 1: This guy is not afraid at all to put himself

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Speaker 1: on the front lines of pretty much every news story

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Speaker 1: in the world. I sat down with him and talked

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Speaker 1: about some pretty big true crime cases you've probably heard of,

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Speaker 1: and even UFOs. His name is Brian Inton, and he

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Speaker 1: works at News Nation. If you followed the UFO story

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Speaker 1: at all, news Nation has been staying on the pulse

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Speaker 1: of all things UAP, and Brian has a very interesting

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Speaker 1: take on what these things are and where we go

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Speaker 1: from here. So, without further ado, here's Brian Inton. What's

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Speaker 1: up man, how you doing?

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Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me in your hotel room.

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Speaker 1: I know it's cool, glorious Orlando. Yeah, I'm looking.

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Speaker 2: At at the theme parks and oh yeah, beautiful Orlando.

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Speaker 1: Shopping centers and you know outlet malls. Yeah, yeah, as

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Speaker 1: much as you want. So this is your Brian Inton,

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Speaker 1: your Emmy Award winning journalist, reporter. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about your career a little bit today, and

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Speaker 1: just firstly, how you got into all this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was in local news Miami for quite

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Speaker 2: a while. That's where I'm from, South Florida, And I

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Speaker 2: started working at News Nation, which it was an upstart

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Speaker 2: new cable news channel, and one of my first stories

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Speaker 2: was the Gabby Potito story. So they sent me to Northport, Florida,

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Speaker 2: you know, when she was missing, when Brian was missing,

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Speaker 2: and basically just camped out there, camped out on the

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Speaker 2: lawn for a couple months and.

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Speaker 1: A couple of months.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and uh, where'd you shower? Well, we had

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Speaker 2: a hotel, we had a fair field in close by,

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Speaker 2: so we would go there and like rest up and shower,

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Speaker 2: and but we actually rented a spot on the neighbor's

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Speaker 2: lawn because the police were keeping all the reporters. Sorry

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Speaker 2: and like jumping around, you're good. The police were keeping

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Speaker 2: all the reporters off the street there, and there was

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Speaker 2: no sidewalking, you know, like you can usually stay on

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Speaker 2: the sidewalk as like a reporter they can't get but

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Speaker 2: they were not letting you do that, no, because there

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Speaker 2: was no sidewalk. So and it was like this kind

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Speaker 2: of weird Florida. Speaking of weird Orlando, it's like a

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Speaker 2: weird Floorida neighborhood. There was no sidewalk, and so they

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Speaker 2: basically like, we had nowhere to go. So luckily the

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Speaker 2: neighbors were super cool and we ended up paying them

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Speaker 2: to let us have a spot on their lawn so

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Speaker 2: that we could stay there just in case, like Brian

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Speaker 2: came home. That kind of thing. Right, That's how I

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Speaker 2: got into this whole like true crime world. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: starting with that story.

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Speaker 1: So when the Gabby Potito story first landed on your desk,

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Speaker 1: what did you know at that point? Like where was

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Speaker 1: it at?

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Speaker 2: It was really early on and basically they were missing.

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Speaker 2: We didn't know much of anything at all. It hadn't

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Speaker 2: gotten a lot of national coverage. I guess one of

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Speaker 2: our bosses must have been for some reason sent us there.

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Speaker 2: Thought it was interesting. And my first thought was like,

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Speaker 2: cause I looked at Gabby's social media on the drive

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Speaker 2: from Miami. My photographer Luis was driving, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe this is like some kind of social media prank

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Speaker 2: or something like they purposely went. That was my first thought,

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Speaker 2: like are they doing Maybe they're doing this is like

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Speaker 2: a you know, to get attention or something. And I

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Speaker 2: thought like we'd be there for a couple of days

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Speaker 2: and they would be found and we would move on

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Speaker 2: to the next thing and they'd be okay. But it just,

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Speaker 2: you know, all the twists and turns started happening, and

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Speaker 2: I like just kind of became obsessed with the story.

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Speaker 1: Like hell, so like it was just weird.

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Speaker 2: Like being outside Brian Laundry's parents house, they wouldn't talk

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Speaker 2: to us. Then we started talking to Gabby's parents and

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Speaker 2: they were saying that that Brian's parents were ignoring their calls,

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Speaker 2: Like it just didn't make sense, like why, you know,

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Speaker 2: if they were both missing, why would Brian's parents not

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Speaker 2: be communicating with Gabby's parents. And I just like it

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Speaker 2: just it was like a just a mystery, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I just felt like I needed to stay

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Speaker 2: at that house.

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Speaker 1: Did it feel like that at any moment something could happen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, if Brian walks, if he goes home,

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Speaker 1: the yeah, peese will know that. You guys will know, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: That's why we didn't want to leave, like because there

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Speaker 2: was this time where we didn't know if he was

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Speaker 2: gonna walk in, you know, if they were going to

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Speaker 2: show up, and then later on there were like FBI

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Speaker 2: raids at the house, which we didn't know were gonna

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Speaker 2: happen unless we just stayed there, right, So we were

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Speaker 2: really nervous to leave. Like I don't know, my gut

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Speaker 2: just said, like stay at that house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean not too long after your coverage.

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Speaker 1: It just that case really gained national attention. Yeah, more

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Speaker 1: so than a lot of cases I've seen in the

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Speaker 1: past five ten years. Yeah, what was your reaction to that?

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Speaker 1: And why do you think that was exactly?

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Speaker 2: I think it's because like she had a really you know,

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Speaker 2: interesting social media presence. She had a lot of videos,

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Speaker 2: She had, you know, an Instagram page about their van

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Speaker 2: life that I think people connected to. I don't know what.

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Speaker 2: There was just something about Gabby. I think that people,

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Speaker 2: a lot of domestic violence victims felt the connection to it.

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Speaker 2: Just from the very beginning. It just it started picking

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Speaker 2: up steam. Like even for me when I when I

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Speaker 2: got there, I just had no idea the story would

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Speaker 2: like me so much and change my life. But like

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Speaker 2: there was just so much interest. Like I think I

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Speaker 2: had like twenty thousand Twitter followers when I started, and like,

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Speaker 2: you know, within a month, like hundreds of thousands, just

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Speaker 2: like people were just like clamoring for information.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, give me some. I'm just kidding. Yeah, Yeah, that's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, looking at that case, there's the

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Speaker 1: infamous phrase, now you know, missing white woman syndrome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I want to carefully talk about that

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to, you know, disparage anybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I feel like that's probably a part

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Speaker 1: of it. Just I mean, I think that in your

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Speaker 1: time as a reporter, do you find that certain listeners

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Speaker 1: or viewers are drawn to certain types of stories that

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Speaker 1: they either relate to or feel some connection to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I think with Gabby's story again, it

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Speaker 2: was like moms connected to it because they saw like

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Speaker 2: their kids in Gabby. And then once more details came out,

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Speaker 2: like just so many domestic violence survivors connected, like we

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Speaker 2: were outside the house. I mean, it was it was crazy,

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Speaker 2: like what was going on outside this house, Like we

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Speaker 2: when we were just camped out there, Like people were

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Speaker 2: just coming to the house from all over the country,

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Speaker 2: like women who had had domestic violence in their past

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Speaker 2: and just like coming to that house just to like

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Speaker 2: come there. And then they would tell us their story

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Speaker 2: there just to be there. They just felt like they

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Speaker 2: wanted to show support for Gabby's family. They wanted to

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Speaker 2: pressure the laundries, thinking that they knew something, and they

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Speaker 2: would come and be like, yeah, you know, I got

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Speaker 2: out of my relationship, and they just like really connected

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Speaker 2: to this this story.

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Speaker 1: This was in Bumble, Florida, right, I mean.

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Speaker 2: People were driving there from and it was hot. It

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Speaker 2: was hot, swampy floorda summer. I was drenched in sweat

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Speaker 2: all the time, and it was raining every day, and

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Speaker 2: you know, like it flooded there like all the there

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Speaker 2: was like this trench that just stick We were sticky

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Speaker 2: the whole time, Mosquitos, and these people would come out

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Speaker 2: there and just want to stand around and talk about

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Speaker 2: and I just realized like they had this connection to Gabby.

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Speaker 2: It was really And even I just saw Gabby Patito's

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Speaker 2: parents here at crime Con and we were talking about

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Speaker 2: it too, and even they're like, you know, there was

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Speaker 2: just something about the timing and they they can't even

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Speaker 2: figure out like why it just exploded.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it became a huge story that you

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Speaker 1: just could not miss if you were anywhere near a

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Speaker 1: TV or a radio or the internet.

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Speaker 2: At yeah, it seemed like yeah, no totally, and people

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Speaker 2: were just you know living for me, living that in

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Speaker 2: real time, and just like the obsession that people had

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Speaker 2: and like they just wanted constant information. It was kind

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Speaker 2: of overwhelming because again, like I was, you know, I

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Speaker 2: had been in local news and then it's not like

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Speaker 2: I had done a lot of big stories where there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of attention, you know. So I was

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Speaker 2: trying to put out information as quickly as I could,

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Speaker 2: but it was you know, some days it was hard.

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Speaker 1: After camping out for weeks, what was the next big

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Speaker 1: thing that happen in that case?

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Speaker 2: So I'm trying to think back. I mean, they started

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Speaker 2: searching the swamp. They got the information that he may

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Speaker 2: have been hiding out at the swamp. So then we

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Speaker 2: would spend a lot of time at the swamp, which

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Speaker 2: was like twenty minutes away. It is called the Carlton Reserve.

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Speaker 2: So we'd go back and forth between the house and

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Speaker 2: the swamp, talking to the families a lot during that time,

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Speaker 2: trying to get information from police, like all sorts of

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Speaker 2: weird stuff happening at the house. Like I didn't report

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Speaker 2: on this at the time, but like the police put

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Speaker 2: these hidden cameras, like in trees and stuff, because they

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Speaker 2: thought Brian Laundry might come in through the.

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Speaker 1: Back, like trail like game cameras, though they were.

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Speaker 2: More advanced in that they were like and the FBI

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Speaker 2: was involved, Like there were like these little surveillance cameras

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Speaker 2: that we got pictures of at the time, but like,

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to report it because if he was alive,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't want him to like not come back,

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Speaker 2: because I.

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Speaker 1: So where was this guy the whole time?

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Speaker 2: Though for real, it turns out he was dead. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they've got whole time. Well we don't know the exact timing,

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Speaker 2: but he he you know, killed himself in that swamp.

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Speaker 2: That's where they found the body. We don't know exactly

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Speaker 2: at what point though, were.

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Speaker 1: They able to determine that at any degree how long

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Speaker 1: he'd been there or how long he'd.

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Speaker 2: For Yeah, it had been a while because his body

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Speaker 2: was decomposed, it was like bones.

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Speaker 1: So likely early on he had killed himself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So there was this whole national search. People

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Speaker 2: thought he was on you know, hiking in South Carolina,

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Speaker 2: and people thought he was all there were all sorts

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Speaker 2: of crazy theories but it turned out he was dead

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Speaker 2: for a long time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So moving on to another story you heavily covered the

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Speaker 1: This is actually earlier this year, there was a horrific

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Speaker 1: story of four Idaho students that were brutally murdered in

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Speaker 1: their house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me about how you first learned about

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Speaker 1: that story and what you knew at that point in time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it had it happened, and I had heard

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Speaker 2: about it, and I was actually on vacation in Mexico

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Speaker 2: and I was like following it, like just on my

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Speaker 2: phone and really interested in it. And that was another

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Speaker 2: one that was like a mystery, which always kind of

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Speaker 2: like appeals to me, like, you know, well, where who's

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Speaker 2: the where's the killer? Who is the killer? Right? Small

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Speaker 2: college town on edge And actually Paige, who's here, We

321
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Speaker 2: were texting about it and she's like, you should go

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Speaker 2: do this story, Like it's really crazy. So we you

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Speaker 2: know where it happened in Moscow. Idaho's like not an

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Speaker 2: easy place to get to, so it takes a while

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Speaker 2: to get there, especially for Miami. But we went out

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Speaker 2: there and that was another one where I didn't really

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Speaker 2: know what to expect, but we ended up staying there

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Speaker 2: for like I think it was like six weeks two. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that was cold, I mean opposite, it was like

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Speaker 2: cold there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, oh yeah we're outside that house, you're up there,

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Speaker 1: I guess yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So but just another one that I just quickly

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Speaker 2: became like obsessed with, just because like no one knew

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Speaker 2: who the killer was. It was just brutal. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not like these kids were shot. I mean they

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Speaker 2: were all like brutally stabbed in their house while they

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Speaker 2: were sleeping.

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Speaker 1: How does it even happen?

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Speaker 2: And how did how was how did this person get away?

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Speaker 1: You know, I mean my first thought was this has

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Speaker 1: to be someone who knows them or something. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean how is he getting into the house? How was

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Speaker 1: he murdering four people with a knife? Yeah, and just

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Speaker 1: walking out the front door?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What was your first take on who the suspect could

348
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Speaker 1: be before we learned anything different?

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Speaker 2: I mean, the police on that one, it was it

350
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Speaker 2: was frustrating because the police were so tight lipped, like

351
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Speaker 2: it was just you know, kind of a small town

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Speaker 2: police department. They gave some press conferences in the beginning,

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Speaker 2: but then they just like shut down, so we didn't

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Speaker 2: really know what to think. I mean, honestly, I had

355
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Speaker 2: no idea who it was. There was no like little

356
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Speaker 2: tidbits of information. Then we slowly started to get things

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Speaker 2: looking for the Hyundai Elantra. They put out the picture

358
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Speaker 2: of that. But you know, we were just banging on

359
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Speaker 2: doors every day trying to figure out. You know, these

360
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Speaker 2: girls were popular girls, you know, did they have a stalker?

361
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Speaker 2: Like we we were, you know, trying to trying to

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Speaker 2: figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to me, it seemed like it was

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Speaker 1: either someone who knew them because it was so personal, yeah,

365
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Speaker 1: or it was a complete stranger who just chose to

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Speaker 1: do this one time. Yeah, that being the least likely scenario.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if the suspect they have did it,

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Speaker 1: then that is which might be. You know, tell you

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Speaker 1: why it would be so complex to solve or pin

370
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Speaker 1: that guy down. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: Weird and a lot of people in the beginning thought

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Speaker 2: it was someone who knew the victims because usually like

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Speaker 2: it is like it's someone that you know, is in

374
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Speaker 2: the circle or whatever, and it's it's looking back, I mean,

375
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Speaker 2: it's it's sad, like especially on social media, like there

376
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Speaker 2: were so many people and names were used, like the

377
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Speaker 2: people who.

378
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Speaker 1: Thought just singer pointing and and like there was this

379
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Speaker 1: one neighbor dude who like gave his DNA that like

380
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Speaker 1: went to the place like can I please give my DNA?

381
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Speaker 2: Like no one will leave me alone? Like someone on

382
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Speaker 2: social media put out his name and then next thing

383
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Speaker 2: you know, I'll yeah. And even like Kaylee, one of

384
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Speaker 2: the victims, her boyfriend was getting a lot of heat

385
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Speaker 2: because you know, a lot of people always think it's

386
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Speaker 2: the boyfriend, right, And I remember I went to Kaylee's

387
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Speaker 2: house to interview her parents, and they lived in Quartelaine,

388
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Speaker 2: which was like a while away is away up through

389
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Speaker 2: the mountains, and when I got there, this is when

390
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 2: you know there was still a killer on the run

391
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 2: and everything was very fresh. Kaylee's boyfriend was there with

392
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 2: the parents, and I remember being like, oh my god,

393
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,199
Speaker 2: like the boyfriend's here, like and I realized, like the

394
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 2: parents do not think this guy did.

395
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: It, like right, and yeah, but yeah, But I was like,

396
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Speaker 1: I'm an outsider. I don't know what's going on, but

397
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Speaker 1: they're cool with this. Maybe that tells me something.

398
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 2: Correct, So I was like, okay, like if they're like

399
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 2: the boyfriend's here chilling with them, when I'm doing the interview, like,

400
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 2: I don't think it's the boyfriend.

401
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: So did you leave thinking maybe he was less of

402
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 1: a suspect that I.

403
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 2: Did, Yeah, just because I believed I trusted the parents

404
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 2: intuition on that. Why would they have him at their

405
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 2: house when they're you know, dealing with all this. But

406
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 2: I remember it was just a really weird moment and

407
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,959
Speaker 2: they were like, please don't, like get him on camera,

408
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,719
Speaker 2: and we didn't. But I was just like, Oh, this

409
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: is so weird. He's here. But turns out like obviously

410
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it. The poor guy. You know.

411
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Speaker 1: They eventually did arrest a suspect. Yeah, tell me about this.

412
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 2: Guy, Brian Coberger. So he was getting his his his

413
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 2: PhD in criminology as a history of criminology. He was

414
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 2: studying at Washington State University, which is right near right

415
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 2: over the border from Universe of Idaho where the murders happen.

416
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 2: It's like a ten minute drive. And I mean he's

417
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 2: he's been into crime and criminology his whole life. I

418
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: mean he got his master's in Pennsylvania and criminology and

419
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 2: everything we've learned about him. Kind of a creepy guy.

420
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,719
Speaker 2: A lot we heard from a lot of women who

421
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 2: had weird experiences with him. A lot of women thought

422
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 2: he was sexists that were in class with him, But

423
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: no history that we know of of like violence or

424
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 2: anything like that.

425
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Speaker 1: I mean, if this guy did do it, to me,

426
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: it seems almost like a new kind of monster where

427
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 1: he was obsessed with true crime in that way, and

428
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: you know, at some point decided to commit a crime, yeah,

429
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: and planned it out in hopes of trying to get

430
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: away with it.

431
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's creepy. I mean, you know, he had this

432
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: like study that he did as part of his doctoral

433
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: program where he was trying to get inside the heads

434
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: of like crime victims and emotions. And so if he

435
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 2: did do it, I mean, yeah, is it was it

436
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: like this obsession as part of his you know, study

437
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: of criminology.

438
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: And let's be real, if you didn't do it, who

439
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: else did? Yeah?

440
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 2: I mean they look the the you know, the case

441
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: is sealed, so there's a lot we don't know, but

442
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 2: based on what has been released, you know, they've built

443
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 2: a pretty strong case against him. His DNA was on

444
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: the knife sheath which was found inside. That's not that's

445
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: not good. How that get there right, and his cell

446
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 2: phone tracked around the house during the time of the murders,

447
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,239
Speaker 2: and his cell phone was mysteriously turned off during the

448
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: exact time of the murders. So there's definitely and that's

449
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 2: just what we know. I mean, it's like it's a

450
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: super secretive case, Like I've never seen anything like it,

451
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: the way they've they've got this gag order, So there's

452
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: probably a lot we don't know that they've connected.

453
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: With how big true crime has become as a genre

454
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: and just in TV, film podcasts, do you think that

455
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: to some degree it may have a negative impact on

456
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: some people's psychological state.

457
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've thought a lot about this, again because I

458
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 2: wasn't like always a true crime junkie until a couple

459
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: of years ago, and I still don't.

460
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just what made you a true crime junkie?

461
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: Have you determined that's what you were?

462
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 2: Well, I just mean, like I you know, after Gabby

463
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: Batito we started this missing we got really into missing cases,

464
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 2: like and like you you mentioned earlier, like you know,

465
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: certain minorities and women and men not.

466
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: Getting a bunch of missing we have.

467
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a weekly segment. So anyway, that's where

468
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 2: like I kind of feel like I'm in the true

469
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: crime thing now because we do these.

470
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you definitely are.

471
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, but what was the question I forgot?

472
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, like just like the I mean, do you

473
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: think that all the consumption of this content can have

474
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: a negative impact on someone's psych Yeah.

475
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: I think it can feel like, you know, there's a

476
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: killer outside your room all the time, whereas.

477
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: Almost like generating a paranoia that may not even be

478
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: completely rational.

479
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if you watch this every day on TV,

480
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: and you know, you might think like, oh my god,

481
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: this is normal, this is you know, whereas.

482
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: Every neighborhood walk yeah a dangerous one.

483
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 2: Correct, Whereas we're like highlighting a lot of the awful

484
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: cases happening, But that's not happening every day or in

485
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: every city in America, you know. So I think, yeah,

486
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 2: I think, you know, you have to come at it

487
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: with a sort of you know, rational way of looking

488
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 2: at it.

489
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: I think, how do you keep your head on straight

490
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: when you're deep into missing persons cases, all this trauma

491
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: or horrific murder? How do you stay objective and focused

492
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: and report on stuff like that without it having any

493
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: sort of toll on yourself?

494
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: You mean like making me sad or I don't know.

495
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: Just any sort of a you know, human emotion or

496
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: connection to it all. How do you kind of stay

497
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: in bounds?

498
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, I try to look at

499
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: it as a job a lot of the time, and like,

500
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: you know, you're just doing your job. You got to

501
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: get the facts, you know, see if the victims' families

502
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: want to talking it. Yeah, and usually, like every big

503
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 2: story we do that's really emotional and sad, Like I'll

504
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: have like one moment where where like I'll have like

505
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: a release, you know, like like it's usually by myself,

506
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: Like I don't know when it'll come.

507
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: Maybe like you're not a robot.

508
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, like something will hit me and I'll

509
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 2: just kind of like let it all out and then

510
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: I'll just kind of go back to you know. You know.

511
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: But I think the ideas of like and gret I

512
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: looked up to a lot of these old school journalists,

513
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 2: you know, But I mean I think we can have

514
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 2: some emotion. I mean it's like, yeah, I mean, we're humans.

515
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know it is sad, Yeah, exactly, you know,

516
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, you don't have to be some you

517
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: know AI robot. Yeah, and you're almost more biased pretending

518
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: that you don't have emotion. Yeah, you know you're so Yeah, Okay.

519
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly so. But yeah, it takes a toll sometimes.

520
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: I think I want to switch gears for a second

521
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: to what I'm selfishly the most excited to talk to

522
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: you about. Okay, and I hope you have at least

523
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: a tidbit of info for me, but I want to

524
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: just break into it by ask you are aliens real? Yeah?

525
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 2: This is another one that I didn't expect myself to

526
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 2: get into, like, and never thought i'd be covering UFO

527
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: so much. Look Base And again, this is interesting because

528
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 2: it's kind of like with the true crime stuff, Like

529
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 2: I wasn't an alien guy, like, you know, probably three

530
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: months ago, Like I had never done an alien.

531
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: It was not cool back then. No.

532
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like I'm not, like I really don't have

533
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: like a bias on it, you know, but based on

534
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: everything I've learned, I think there's something out there. I mean,

535
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: I do I think that the government knows something. I mean,

536
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 2: there's clearly secret programs. What it is, I don't know, right,

537
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if aliens are real.

538
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: But I think there's I really think there's something out

539
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: there that they that they know.

540
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: Pretty recently, there was a bombshell story that News Nation

541
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: put out David Grush, and it was a ex military

542
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: whistle blower who had some very bizarre, just powerful claims. Yeah,

543
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: what would your take on that whole thing?

544
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: So, you know, he's he's got all the credentials. I mean,

545
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: he had like the highest level of top secret clearance

546
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: because he was, you know, an Intel official. You know,

547
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: he was in the Air Force for a long time.

548
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: You know, he his his representation, his his attorney now

549
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: getting him through this whistleblower process is the former Inspector

550
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: General for the Intel community. So he had like all

551
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: the credential. Like the thing that I was, he wasn't

552
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: just some dude. Yeah, And we like checked all this

553
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: out before we put him on News Nation, and I

554
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: just kept going back to like why would he make

555
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: it up?

556
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: What's the motivation?

557
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: What would the motivation be? And that like that's what

558
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: you do with all stories, right, like, because there's not

559
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: always proof when you go interview somebody, but you just

560
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: have to in your mind think, like, you know, are

561
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: they trying to play me? Is there a reason they

562
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: would be lying. And it's not just David Grush. I

563
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: mean a lot of other high level people have come forward,

564
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: not all of them publicly at this point, but like,

565
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: these are the people who we who our government has

566
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: told the biggest secrets to, and they've admitted that. I mean,

567
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: like they have the highest level clearance. They check into

568
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: their background as much as possible, they do psychological tests.

569
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: So like, if they're trusting them with that clearance, like,

570
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: why shouldn't we trust them now with what they're saying?

571
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: Right?

572
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: At least that's the way I've been thinking about it,

573
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: you know, I Mean I'm a skeptical too of some things,

574
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: but sure, but I think it's worthy of us talking about.

575
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: Could you just summarize, just on a basic premise, what

576
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: his claims were.

577
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he claims that the US government has a

578
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: secret crash retrieval program and that for decades they have

579
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: had the secret program that has retrieved crashed spacecraft essentially. Now,

580
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: is it like the movies where it's Little Green Men

581
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: and you know, Saucer. Maybe it is, but he won't

582
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: give details because of all this classification stuff. But you know,

583
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: is it just weird metals? That they found that don't

584
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: register on the periodic table. That's a possibility, but he

585
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: says there is this program where they have this technology

586
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: and that they've been trying to replicate it, uh to

587
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: to you know, increase our to use within our like

588
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: defense department, you know, within the military, try to replicate

589
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: the technology for defense, and that other countries are also

590
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: doing the same thing, and that they're sort of like

591
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: this secret Cold War happening to try to try to

592
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: replicate that technology. That's essentially what he says.

593
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just craft, right, it was also claims

594
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: of bodies some sort calls.

595
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: Them biologics, which again it's like you could say bodies

596
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: and he won't clarify. Is it just you know, I

597
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: don't know what I mean, goop on these metals that

598
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: they found that have you know, DNA or something. Right,

599
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: that's possible, but we don't. Yeah, he says, he calls

600
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: it biologics that that I've come along with some of

601
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: these crashed craft.

602
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously this isn't an extraordinary claim.

603
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: It is, yeah, it's it's yeah, like with some of

604
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: my colleagues that were like, if this this is all true,

605
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: like this is like the biggest story. Like we're just

606
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: like doing this story, like we kind of came out

607
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: of like any other story, you know, like we're trying

608
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: to vet in, we're trying to stand And then I'm like,

609
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: wait a minute.

610
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: The implications here pretty big, crazy, you know, like yeah, yeah,

611
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, and he didn't have all of the physical

612
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: evidence that you'd want to see or go through to

613
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: back those claims up, right, Yeah, But he does say

614
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: that he has dozens or more. I think he's said

615
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: almost forty different people who've told him this stuff. Yeah,

616
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: over time. And I'm starting to think about, Okay, I

617
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: don't think that David rush is lying. I think he

618
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: believes this, yeah, no matter what. So it's either that

619
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: these forty people were telling him lies and gaslighting him

620
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: over a decade or more, which yeah, you know, to

621
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: what ends like I don't understand that fully or it's true,

622
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: And what would be the motivation for them to convince

623
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: this guy of something that is totally bullshit? Right? Right?

624
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: And he says that, you know, he's interviewed all he

625
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: was like doing his own little mini investigation when he

626
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: started to find out about this and started interviewing people

627
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: within the program, and he, like you said, he's got

628
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people who he's talked to, and he's

629
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: already brought those people to the Intel community, to you know,

630
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: the Marco Rubios, the people who have this secret access.

631
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: So a lot more people have talked than we realize.

632
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, it just goes back to like we's their motivation.

633
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: And when we interview skeptics, a lot of them say

634
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: what you just said, like they actually they don't believe

635
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: David Gresh's story, but they also don't think he's lying.

636
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: Like they wonder like, is this some kind of plant

637
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: to distract us from something else that he's been told.

638
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: Right, or he was told this, yeah, to eventually say

639
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: it to discredit something or I don't even know what

640
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: the end game there would.

641
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: Be, right, And you can go down a real rabbit hole. Oh,

642
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: just mentally if you start to play this, it's like,

643
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of crazy.

644
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: There was a congressional here ring pretty recently. I actually

645
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: went there. I flew in were you there or no?

646
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: I wasn't there?

647
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but you know it was it was my

648
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: first time ever being in a setting like that. I

649
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: was also and I was like, you know, I was

650
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: bringing cameras and recording equipment, and I didn't know if

651
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: I was going to be let in with this stuff.

652
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: But turns out you can bring all that shit in there,

653
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Okay, I guess that's one of our

654
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: rights or or something.

655
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: I'm always like intimidated when I go yeah, and all

656
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: this stuff.

657
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: Okay, cool. But it was so bizarre being in there

658
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: and seeing these military officials in suits and doing the

659
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: whole Congress thing saying what they were saying.

660
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was kind of like hard to believe, like yeah,

661
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: and you know, so it was David Grush and then

662
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 2: it was David David Pray, Vid Favor, and Ryan Graves,

663
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: that's correct. And I found, like, I mean, obviously what

664
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: Grush had had said to us in the interview and

665
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: said to Congress was like kind of the most like juicy,

666
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: But I found like what the other what the pilot

667
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: said to be like almost like crazier, because here you

668
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: had evidence like the tic TAC video that the Pentagon

669
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 2: ended up releasing themselves, and here again you got these

670
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: like F eighteen pilots, and David FRAVERR Was saying like

671
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: he's also like not into UFOs, you know, like he

672
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: didn't want to be sitting there, Like why would they

673
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: be making it up? Not to mention there is video,

674
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: Like there's real video of this stuff released by the government.

675
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: So like even if you don't believe David Grush, like

676
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: it's hard not to believe those pilots.

677
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you're a Navy pilot who flies

678
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much the most badass machines we have

679
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: to date, and that person's telling you that they saw

680
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: something in the sky that spooked them because it shouldn't

681
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: be there, or it's something that they cannot comprehend what

682
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: it was. I tend to want to believe them. I don't,

683
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, I think that, you know, unless they were

684
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: just seeing stuff all the time, which doesn't seem.

685
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: Like when there's a case, I mean there's there's a video, yeah,

686
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: and they were told not to talk about it, and

687
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: like you know, there's other people who say, you know,

688
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 2: stuff was erased afterwards, and there's there's something going on,

689
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: Like there's just there's just no way, there's not that

690
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: the government knows something. And I think that that they're

691
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: just you know, they're keeping it a secret.

692
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: And when you say the government. You know, I feel

693
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: like there's been a trope with you know, UFO lore

694
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: for so long where it's you know, the government knows

695
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: and they have alien bodies at Area fifty one or whatever. Yeah,

696
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: and it's this idea of you know, the government as

697
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: some big thing that's working in Unison, which right, clearly

698
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: we've learned that's not how it goes. Yeah, and so

699
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: I think that there's if it is all true, then

700
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: a lot of these people, maybe most of them, don't

701
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: know if it's true or not, and so it would

702
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: be some you know, department that's hidden somewhere.

703
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what David Grush says, that it's a like

704
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 2: a dark program, a dark secret program. So basically the

705
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: defense to budget, the defense budget is like it's like

706
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: more than fifty percent I think of our whole federal budget,

707
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: and you know, there's a lot of money that they

708
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: can't explain where it's going, Like everybody knows that they don't.

709
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like every dollar is accounted for.

710
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: So David Grush claims that you know, within the budget,

711
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 2: there's there's fat there that goes to fund this, and

712
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: that there's a we don't know which one, but that

713
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 2: there's a private contractor so not government, like some kind

714
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: of private defense contractor that gets paid to sort of

715
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: handle this and that way, you know, it stays on

716
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: the outside. That's what he says.

717
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: Do you think that if the government definitively said that

718
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: they have scientific proof of extraterrestrial life and they've been

719
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: coming here and for years, and we have these spacecraft

720
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: that are not from Earth, what are the implications do

721
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: you think for just the modern American or just citizen

722
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: in terms of how it may affect the way they

723
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: view the world or they're belief systems.

724
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've thought a lot about that, Like what if

725
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: the Pentagon just put out a statement and said, yes,

726
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: it's all true, or you know whatever. I'm curious what

727
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 2: you think, Like I don't know. Life is so crazy

728
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: now and like it all happens so fast, Like you

729
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: just see all this crazy COVID, Yeah care you see

730
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: all this great? Like honestly, like if there was a

731
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: press conference tomorrow and they said, we want to let

732
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: you know that we do have this program and we

733
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: can't get into detail, but we've been studying some of

734
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: these items that have crashed, Like don't you just feel

735
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 2: like everyone would freak out and then two days later

736
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: it'd be like I really don't think it would be that.

737
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: I mean, it'd be a big deal, but I don't

738
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: think like, you know, the world would stop.

739
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: No.

740
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: I think I think most people are kind of like, yeah,

741
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: there probably are aliens out there, you know, right.

742
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: I feel the same way. I feel like if if

743
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: the President walked out on the White House lawn and

744
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, really showed whatever he needed to to prove

745
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: that et life existed, and they had the proof and

746
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: the evidence of it, Yeah, I think that the American

747
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: public would half of them would say, holy shit, I

748
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: always knew it or that's crazy, and the other half

749
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: would say, nah, that's not true. He's lying.

750
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: Well that's the other thing. They might just not believe

751
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: it and they just for a conspiracy.

752
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: Now, And I'm like, you know, I think we live

753
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: in that time where people I don't agree with it

754
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: just choose to believe what they want to believe.

755
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: There is no truth anymore anyway, Like even if they

756
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: said it, like, some people wouldn't believe it, you know

757
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like, yeah, so but I don't. I

758
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 2: just I don't buy that it's like, oh, the world's

759
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,479
Speaker 2: not ready. I don't know, I just think everybody would.

760
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe my grandparents weren't ready. Yeah right, But I

761
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: think that the younger generation, the generation younger than me,

762
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: I think they don't give a shit at all.

763
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: I agree.

764
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: I think if they're just like, yeah, sure, we always

765
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: kind of thought that anyway.

766
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 2: Yeah right, like let me scroll my Instagram again.

767
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, it's like, yeah, we're going to eat later.

768
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, yeah, exactly that. That is what I think, honestly.

769
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's not as crazy as you know,

770
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: people might make it out to be in terms of

771
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: how we'd react to.

772
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, because even with these hearings. I mean when we

773
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: first did the interview with Grush, you know, we did

774
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: the interview and that was one thing. But now you've

775
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 2: got this guy to congressional hearing under oath. I mean,

776
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: you can go to jail if you lie, and then

777
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: you've got the two pilots with him all saying this

778
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 2: really crazy stuff and like people accepted it.

779
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's put himself a risk there. I mean

780
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: it's you know, he can go to jail if he's

781
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,959
Speaker 1: proven to be a liar there, right, right, right, Yeah, Yeah,

782
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: I just it's just a whole just strange topic that's

783
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: fun to talk about. And you know, my team and

784
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: me especially really enjoyed all the really have been enjoying

785
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: all the news nation coverage of it. And I wanted

786
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: to see if you had an opinion or thought on

787
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: maybe why some of the other larger news networks may

788
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: not report on it as much or as fast or

789
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: as in depth, and if it has something to do

790
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: with maybe just optically how it may be perceived or

791
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: I don't know.

792
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, it's been fun

793
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: covering it in an objective way because a lot of

794
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: people like you know, a lot of the UFO podcasters

795
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: and stuff who are cool, but it's like you kind

796
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: of know, like their believers. But yeah, like it's been fun,

797
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: like because the topic hasn't really gotten yeah, and it's

798
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: it's kind of been like it's been, it's been neat

799
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: and a lot of people have been appreciative of it.

800
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: You know, we always have skeptics on and it's not

801
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 2: like we're just saying it's true, you know. And I've

802
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 2: thought about, like why the other big networks don't cover it,

803
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: like even the congressional hearings didn't get a lot of

804
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: coverage from like you know, NBC, ABC, CBS. I think,

805
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: I mean, we're startup at News Nation, so you know,

806
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: when your startup, you're looking fryeballs. You're, yeah, going to

807
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: take risks on things, cover thing. The whole idea is

808
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: to cover stuff that other people aren't covering, because why

809
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: would they watch us if you can get it on

810
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: you know, the station you've always been watching. So I

811
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: think we were just willing to do something different, whereas

812
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 2: like if you're the New York Times or NBC and

813
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 2: you've got your thing going, like why are you going

814
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: to freak people out about aliens?

815
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: Like let's just you know, yeah and clearly, which that's

816
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: kind of how I perceived it too, where this was

817
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: a this is a risk that you guys are willing

818
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: to take, and I think you guys should take.

819
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: And it was a risk like our bosses, like when

820
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: we did the David Gresh interview, Ross Coltheart actually did

821
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: the interview. I mean we didn't air it for I

822
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 2: don't know how long it was. It was a while,

823
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: like we're sitting on it, and it was like people

824
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 2: were like we were sitting on it for a long time,

825
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: just trying to get more documents from him. Yeah, you know, this.

826
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: Was being talked about. This wasn't like, oh my god,

827
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: that's so crazy, let's go tell everybody.

828
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: No, we realized, and like our bosses also realized, like

829
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: we're you know, we're trying to establish credibility as a

830
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: new network. Like we can't just like put this on,

831
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: like people are gonna like, we have to really make

832
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: sure we're not wrong here and this guy isn't crazy,

833
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: or we're done.

834
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I mean, for what it's worth, it

835
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: hasn't been able to be proven untrue. Yea, yeah.

836
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: I think by now, like we someone would have said

837
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: like something, you know, yeah, hopefully.

838
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: Do you feel like in your lifetime career as a

839
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: reporter that you'll ever be saying the words that we've

840
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: definitively scientifically proven that ET's are real? I kind of do. Yeah, yeah,

841
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 1: do you I would like if i'd.

842
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: Like some report comes out from NASA on it's like, yeah,

843
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 2: they've confirmed.

844
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: Hey guys, yeah, the James Webb telescope. Yeah, there's a

845
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: bunch of people over here.

846
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 2: It wouldn't surprise me, now, yeah, I hope. So, yeah,

847
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 2: it'd be cool, I think, yeah, I mean it is

848
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: kind of freaky, you know, it's Yeah, it's.

849
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: A little weird. But just because we've always been so

850
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: used to the fact that it's just us.

851
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: I also think there's only so much that we can like,

852
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: I mean, just the way I always think about like ants, Like,

853
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: you know, ants are so small and they can't really

854
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: see us, but we can see them, like I'm sure

855
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 2: we're the ants for something else. I totally like, there's

856
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: only so much that we can probably see and feel.

857
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: And yeah, I know. I had an analogy very very

858
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: similar in my podcast called High Strange, where you know,

859
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: everyone always has the idea in their head if there's

860
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: aliens that exist, you know, why don't they show themselves?

861
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: Why aren't they talking to us? Yeah, I'm like that

862
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: seems a little narrow minded to me, or a little

863
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: small minded. If you were to take a stroll in

864
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: the wood and you saw an ant hill, you know,

865
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: would you sit down and talk to it or would

866
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: you just say, oh, yeah, that's them, And I'm not

867
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: going to kick the hill over because that's kind of

868
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: fucked up, right, I'm just gonna leave it there.

869
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Yeah, they may be so advanced.

870
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: That lets you're on shrooms, is what I said, and

871
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 1: then maybe you were talking to the you're right though.

872
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good analogy.

873
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I hope that in our lifetime we definitively

874
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: learned something. But it seems like every couple months now,

875
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: the universe gets bigger and bigger. Yeah, it's, you know,

876
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: way bigger than we thought. We've been around for longer

877
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: than we thought, and there's just so much space and

878
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: potential out there for it to exist. Even just scientifically

879
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: at this point, whether we have the proof or it's

880
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: happened here or not yet, I think science leans towards

881
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: the likelihood of other beings existing out there somewhere in

882
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: the universe.

883
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought too, Like so many people talk about

884
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: UFOs again, then there's so many people online. It's like

885
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: it'd be cool to see more actual research time. I

886
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: mean obviously like NASA does it, and there's some people

887
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 2: at Harvard, but like if they just dump some money

888
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: into this, like we could probably figure it out.

889
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Just in closing, what's next for you and your career?

890
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't know. I just kind of fly

891
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: by the seat of my pants.

892
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, andnestly. Yeah, like I never know that's that's respectable. Yeah,

893
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 1: pretty similar.

894
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: I mean I wish I like I've never been one,

895
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 2: Like oh my, I don't like I need more goals,

896
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 2: I guess, but yeah, just kind of like, you know,

897
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: I'm still covering coburger in Idaho that's gonna go to trial.

898
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: What is that? Do you know?

899
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: It was supposed to happen like this month, but they

900
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 2: just pushed it off. They don't have a day yet.

901
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: I think it'll be probably a year or more.

902
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: Oh damn.

903
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 2: Really yeah, so I'll stay on that and just you

904
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: know kind of I do also like I have. That's

905
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: why News Nation is good for me, because it's like

906
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: I'm not in a box like I do all sorts

907
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 2: of different kinds of stories, you know.

908
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I wanted to add to every time I

909
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: see h you know, talented reporter like yourself. I'm always like,

910
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: when do these guys sleep? Yeah, like they're getting up

911
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: at like three in the morning to go be on

912
00:44:59,200 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: air at five of them?

913
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah the morning.

914
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: You go to bed at six pm every day? Or

915
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: what is your schedule?

916
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't sleep that much. Is funny. Someone just

917
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 2: on Twitter like it was like you always have squinty eyes,

918
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, I'm just yeah, but you know

919
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: it's fun. Like I try to sleep like some you know,

920
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: I run in the mornings. I try to get my

921
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 2: mind off things sometimes, but like I just get like

922
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: into things, you know, I can't help. I mean, you

923
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: get it. It's not out yea. Yeah, And it's an adrenaline.

924
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: You just want to keep you know, investigating, looking into stuff.

925
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: Eventually you always find yourself there again, I'm on the train. Yeah,

926
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: I'm deep in it now and now I'm just you know,

927
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: on the flight, looking this back, doing that and yeah,

928
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: so and so about it, right, Yeah.

929
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: And social media is so crazy too, like you get

930
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: tips constantly. You're like even with coburger, you know, like

931
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: I got it. I was in Idaho. I got a

932
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: tip that they found the guy in Pennsylvania. I'm trying

933
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: to get to Pensylvan. It's just so much to keep

934
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: up with, you know, and you just always chasing. Yeah

935
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: then and yeah that'll keep you awake, Yeah for sure,

936
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 2: for sure. Well thanks so much man for for doing this.

937
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah person, Yeah.

938
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, let's buy you a drink or something later.

939
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be here for the weekend.

940
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: Cool Yeah, all right, cheers man.

941
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 3: Talking to Death is a production of tenorfoot TV and

942
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For tenorfoot TV,

943
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 3: executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive

944
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are

945
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 3: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup

946
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,

947
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: Sean Nurney, Dayton Cole, and Gustave Wilde for Cohedo. Production

948
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 3: support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing

949
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 3: and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover

950
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website

951
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: Talking to Death podcast dot com.

952
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Talking to Death.

953
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you

954
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe

955
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,520
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956
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,440
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