1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: Also media, Hey, what's up and welcome to it could 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: happen here. I'm Andrew Sage. I'm andrews I on YouTube 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: and I'm joined by James. 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: It's me. It's nice to be back with you, Andrew 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: once again. Yeah. 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, in a time of poly crisis, unfortunately, Yeah, 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: the housing crisis. People are pretty familiar with the lack 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: of affordability of housing, the way that housing has been 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: speculated upon, you know, the way that more and more 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: people are finding it difficult to get something as simple 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: as shelter. Yeah, and it's particularly generational, right, Yeah. 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I don't generally love generational discourse, but it 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: is a marked difference for our generation compared to the 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: previous generation in terms of, yeah, housing security. 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: The data bears it out in terms of the age 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: at which people have previous generations were able to get 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: house in versus you know what millennials and our gen 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: z are dealing with where housing is concerned. 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. 20 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: And then on top of that, we're also lacking a 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: lot of public spaces, places to gather, places to reflect, 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: to socialized game to explore, to interact, to discuss land 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: and housing and social spaces are really what at the 24 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: heart of human survival. You know, we speak of the 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: hearth as in that space where you know, humans were gathering. 26 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: But unfortunately that that ownership of that space has been 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: concentrated in the hands of a few people, you know, 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: ritually's and corporations, the state, and some cases still literal aristocracies. Yeah, 29 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're you're very much familiar with that. 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just thinking about the land I grew up 31 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: on for people who were not privy to Andrew and 32 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: I talking before the show. I just spent some time 33 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: with the gwitch In people in the very north of 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: Alaska there, just in the sub Arctic, and someone was 35 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: asking me about like how I related to my ancestral land. 36 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 2: I was thinking about it, like the village I grew 37 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: up in was entirely owned by one family. They owned 38 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: our house in every other house, and my dad worked 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: for them, and so did almost everyone else who lived there, 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 2: like an extremely feudal relationship. 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's unfortunately the experience of a lot of people 42 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: through human history, or the experience of landlessness or homelessness. 43 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 3: Well, homelessness is. 44 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: Relatively recent all things considered, but or being extortion and rents, 45 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: which a lot of people unfortunately would have experienced throughout 46 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: that feudal period into a capitalism. 47 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. 48 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: But the thing is, for as long as humans have 49 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: been humans, long before the states existed, and long after 50 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: the states existed, people are going to stay where they 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: want to stay. They're going to be where they want 52 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: to be. Right all those take a coup with all 53 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: these laws and restrictions and property rights, all these things 54 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: and criminalize a very natural human inclination, people are still 55 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: going to do it right. And that thing that people 56 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: do is now known as squatting, right, but it wasn't 57 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: always so chastised and criminalized with that terminology before. It 58 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: was just you know, I find a piece of land, 59 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: nobody else is living there. You going to use that 60 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: piece of land to survive. So today we'll be talking 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: about issues with land ownership, looking into its history as 62 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: a resistance practice in England, and seeing where politicized approach 63 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: to squatron could take us in the future. Oh cool, 64 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: Crime thinks article on squating was really helpful for this, 65 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: so I'll link it. 66 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: In the show notes. 67 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: Land ownership and governance are inextricably linked. Private property and 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: land didn't emerge out of peaceful agreements, but violence was 69 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: of conquest. Colonialism, slavery, and steel repression have been the 70 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: true foundation of these now considered noble and official property titles. 71 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: What we call ownership today is just violence legitimized by law, 72 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: and it follows a very similar structure whether you're talking 73 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: about feudalism and empire, land inclosure, colonization. Your start of 74 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: the violence, it becomes officialized, and then rent is extracted. 75 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: This is not something that people took lining down. 76 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 3: Of course. 77 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: People have long resisted it, you know, but this is 78 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: why the government responds with the police and the armies 79 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: to protect the landlords. And the people have criticized and 80 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: have called out these practices. Thinkers like Ricardo Flores Margon 81 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: and Alexander Berkmann, peterko Potkin Qunan, all of these hammered 82 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: home the point of the absurdity at the heart of 83 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: land ownership, the idea that tod they could just pull 84 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: up somewhere, claim an area of land as theirs, and 85 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: back it by soldiers and pieces of paper. Now, anarchists 86 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: not in the business of fixating on just one system 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: of domination or the other, because they're very connected. You know, 88 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: landlords and governments and all the other authorities contribute to 89 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: the system of domination that we all live under as 90 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: and its core rights. 91 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 3: In anarchists squat in and land use. 92 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: In the West, land ownership and government use exploitation and 93 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,559 Speaker 1: manipulation in a similar manner. Where a landowner builds a fence, 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: the government erects a boundary. Where landowner charges rent, a 95 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 1: government levies taxes. Where a landowner advertises a vacant house 96 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: so as not to waste it as an income producing property, 97 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: a government encourages migration to those of its territories which 98 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: are not producing adequate revenue. Where landowner evicts a tenant, 99 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: a government wages war against the population. 100 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 3: Right now, in the United States, as. 101 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: We can see, the government issueesian war not only against 102 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: its indigenous population, its black population, but also it's migrant 103 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: population and a few other populations. 104 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 3: The list unfortunately goes on. 105 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, like the two are so tied, right that, Like 106 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: in many parts of the United Kingdom, like as it 107 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: was moving towards like before, we have a universal franchise 108 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: right where people could vote if it were citizens and 109 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: over a certain age they had a property owner franchise, right, 110 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: Like if you owned land, you could vote, and if 111 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: you didn't then you couldn't landed voting. 112 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and in a sense that is still reflected 113 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: in the way that the government operates today. You know, 114 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: the land owners, the capitalist they still have far outsized 115 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: influence with anyone else, considering the laws and the policies 116 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: that our governments carry out. 117 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. 118 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And this is really. 119 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: Get into the heart of it, because you know, I 120 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: have had the abolition of slavery and the abolition of selfdom, 121 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: but in no way that the formal abolition of those 122 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: things end exploitation at all. It has continued in new 123 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: and old forms. You know, without the police and armies 124 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: and laws propping them up, private property would collapse. But 125 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: those things still exist, and it is through those things 126 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: that the power to exclude, extract, and dominate continues throughout 127 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: our society and continues to uphold violence throughout her society. 128 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: You know, slavery may have been formally abolished, but we 129 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: still find it in the prison system safe They may 130 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: have been formally abolished, but we still find it in 131 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: slightly different forms. With debt and the way that people 132 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: are tied on by debt, and as long as that 133 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: principle of extraction and expectation and rent is not dealt with, 134 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: we will continue to see new forms and old forms 135 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: bringing up Yeah, I want to play the devil's advocate 136 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: for a moment, right and say that maybe, you know, 137 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: the problem is just the violence of its origins, the 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: problem with land ownership and property. If it just came 139 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: from violent origins and no other violence continued, maybe it 140 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: could be excused. Maybe we could say, okay, well that's 141 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: in the past and we can do stuff about that. 142 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: But we could leave the system as it is. But 143 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: the violence didn't stop with the way that the system originated. 144 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: The violence continues, you know, and as Core notes, quote, 145 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: ownership is enforced through eviction, you know, families are thrown 146 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: out of homes, squatters beaten back by police, villages raised 147 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: to expand mining operations, et cetera. Yeah, and then these 148 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: economic theft and cultural destruction involved as well, you know, 149 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: because communities are uprooted, Indigenous traditions are severed, neighborhood cultures 150 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: getting raised by gentrification. And then all this dispossession drives 151 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: unemployments because without access to land, people are forced into 152 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: wage labor on the terms of capitalists. This is really 153 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: how that rapid period of industrialization got started, you know, 154 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: with the enclosure of the commons. 155 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just thinking about that. With the folks 156 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: are with with right there. Their lifestyle is to hunt caribou. 157 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 2: That is how they've lived for twenty thousand years. They 158 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: also fish for salmon, but there are still salmon. There 159 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: are fewer salmon due to climate change and the downstream 160 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: effects of that. Right, But like they have their own land, 161 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: a large portion of land. But like it's the fact 162 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: that someone in this case a drump administration, could lease 163 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: oil rights in other land, which would directly impact their land, 164 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: because in this case, the caribou can't carve if there 165 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: are oil wells where they want to have their carves, 166 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: right yeah, And so like it's not just that them 167 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: having some land of their own does not provide a 168 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: solution to the issue, which is that people can under 169 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: our current system own exploit and destroy a resource. It 170 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: should be common. 171 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: I mean, it really highlights the absurd notion that you 172 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 3: can just cut up. 173 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: Land, right yeah, exactly, which you can separate it by 174 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: by boundaries, and that its self contained in that way, 175 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: all the land and wars on the earth is connected. Yeah, 176 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: through all the cycles and systems is one big biosphere. 177 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: Right. 178 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: The damage done in one place will have an impact 179 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: on another place. And I mean that's so very obvious 180 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: to most of us now, but that our system of 181 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: land ownership ignores that. Our pretend it doesn't happen. 182 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah. Yeah, Instead, we're upholing this ridiculous notion that 183 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 3: you can maintain exclusive lordship, literal land lordship over a 184 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: couple of weeks of property and just do whatever you 185 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 3: want with it because it's under your. 186 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: Name, right, Yeah, And that's that's your problem, because it's 187 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: your landrease. It's completely ridiculous to make that claim. 188 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 189 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: And on top of all of these consequences, you know, 190 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: were also dealing with poverty and hunger because when people 191 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: are producing lots of food, rent and mortgages continue to 192 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: keep people in a permanent state of paying just to exist, right, 193 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: And then this concentrated ownership of land and of property 194 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: produces inefficient production and environmental degradation because property ends upsitting 195 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: Idle was used to speculate even though millions of people 196 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: are in need of that land are starving as a result. 197 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: Of lack of access to that land. 198 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 199 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: Also because so much land gets traded around as assets, 200 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: as property, rather than you know, it being what it is, 201 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: which is our commonwealth. There's no need for the owner 202 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: at the point in time to really care about, you know, 203 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: the quality of the soil, the impact on its ecosystems. 204 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: They don't have to. All they're concerning is their only 205 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: need is to concern themselves with profit. 206 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: Right, Like, it's an asset to be traded, not a 207 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 2: thing that has inherent value and should be protected, not 208 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 2: just because of its economic value, but because it's all 209 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: that we can leave future generations, right exactly. 210 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: And I mean with all these issues of the land 211 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: in mind, I think we can talk now about how 212 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: people have resisted, particularly in England. 213 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, which is really why I want to talk to 214 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: you in particular with this episode. 215 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm excited to hear which which particular moveing 216 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 2: you want to talk about. 217 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: I mean, the story can begin in the first century, yeah, right, 218 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: with the British tribes resisting the expansion of the Roman Empire. 219 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. 220 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: We could also speak about the diggers of the seventeenth 221 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: century in England, in massacred for trying to reclaim common land. Yeah, 222 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: England has a very long history of land struggles. 223 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, and it's completely or it's not lost to 224 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: us now. People have reclaimed, especially at the Diggers, right, 225 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 2: but there are still commons to an extent, but they're 226 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: nothing like what they were, right, Like, you can you 227 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: can go out to Clapham Common and just get grads 228 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: a sheep if you wanted to. And it's really sad 229 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 2: that we've lost that. We've completely as a nation like 230 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: accepted that land is the thing that people can only 231 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 2: shouldn't just be for everyone. 232 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I kind of see how that would 233 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: get to the extent that it did, because you know, 234 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: it was the capital of the British Empire, and in 235 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: many ways the British Isles was the laboratory where that 236 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: sort of experimentation with the control of people and land 237 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: got started and was then able to expand elsewhere. 238 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, very much, sir. 239 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean there's a long timeline that we 240 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: could go through, but I really want to focus on 241 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: the all the ways the people have been squatting in 242 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: England over the twentieth century. You know, after the Second 243 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: World War, it's no surprise anyone that Britain was going 244 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: through it. Whole neighborhoods were flattened, housing stock was in ruins, 245 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: and for the six years while the bombs were fallen, 246 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: not a single new home was built. So people took 247 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: matters into their own hands. 248 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: You know. 249 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: Across the country, families and veterans began to squat because 250 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: they came home from the war and they had nowhere 251 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: to live. In Brighton, a group of ex servicemen calling 252 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: themselves Virgilantes, led by the legendary Harry Cowley, started cracking 253 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: houses for families. The spirit of it eventually spread like wildfire, 254 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: and abandoned army camps which were once mean for demolition, 255 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: soon became makeshift neighborhoods. By nineteen forty six, over forty 256 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: five thousand people were squatted in more than a thousand locations, 257 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: and I mean the government was concerned this could only 258 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: lead to anarchy, but faced with tens of thousands of 259 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: people who had self freehoused, the state didn't really have 260 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: any choice but to step back, right, you know, direct 261 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: actions solved an issue that their bureaucracy. 262 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: Couldn't solve, and the pr of kicking out a. 263 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: Bunch of veterans from homes was not a line they 264 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: seemed willing to cross at that point in time because 265 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: times changed. 266 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: But yeah, they wouldn't have any fear of doing that. 267 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: Now there's only English that were squatting in the UK. 268 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: You know, you also had Bangladeshi immigrants that end up 269 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: coming into the UK, particularly around the nineteen seventies, and 270 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: the issue was that single men couldn't get council housing 271 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: unless they had a family, but they couldn't bring their 272 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: families over into the UK without housing, So it's like 273 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: a cash twenty two. They had all these rows of 274 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: council flats sitting empty, rotten, and young men who wanted 275 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: to bring their families over can't bring their families over, 276 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: can't get housing, What are they going to do? 277 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: They end up squatting. Organizers like Terry. 278 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick, working with groups like Race Today and later the 279 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: Bengali House and Action Group opened up derelict blocks to 280 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: Bengali families. Pelham House, for instance, which was slated for demolition, 281 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: was transformed into homes for three hundred people. By the 282 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: end of nineteen seventy six, Over one thousand Bangladeshis ended 283 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: up living in East End squads during that period, and eventually, 284 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: through that taking that full step of direct action, they won. 285 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: By the early nineteen eighties, the Council caved rehoused the 286 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: squat as locally and they ended up getting to live 287 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: right where they wanted to live. But unfortunately, as you 288 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: might expect, this came with racist violence. In nineteen seventy eight, 289 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: altub Ali was stabbed to death by three skinheads in 290 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: Whitechapel and there's now a park that was renamed in 291 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: his memory where the history of his people can be 292 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: remembered and live on. Beyond the English Shandi Bangladeshi immigrants, 293 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: you also had another marginalized group that took on the 294 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: tactic of squatted in Brixton. The Gay Liberation Front took 295 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: over houses along Relton Road and Mile Road, creating a 296 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: network of communal homes which shared gardens and as you 297 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 1: can imagine, in the seventies, eighties and nineties, you know, 298 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: this was really a refuge, you know, for queer people 299 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: dealing with isolation and hostility from their families, from their communities. 300 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: These squats ended up becoming places where they can find 301 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: love and solidarity and theater and radical politics. Railton Road 302 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: was also home to black radicalism and black radicals squat 303 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: in in that territory. Olive Morris and Liz Obi squatted 304 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies and resisted multiple eviction attempts, and 305 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: their space evolved into Sabah Bookshop and later the anarchist 306 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: one two one Center, which lasted until nineteen ninety nine. Now, 307 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: this intersection of black queer and anarchist squatron created Brixton's 308 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: reputation as a frontline of resistance. Police harassment, racist violence 309 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: and neglect would boil over into days of rioting in 310 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: Brixton in nineteen eighty one, and amidst that chaos, the 311 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: gay squads of Realton threw open their doors, even dragon 312 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: tables and chairs into the streets for a kind of 313 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: riot party, a mix of drag and defiance. And through 314 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: all this these squats allow people to survive. They became 315 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: places where people can experiment with alternative living, even had 316 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: some people declare on independence. There's a space in West 317 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: London called Frestonia, which issued its own stamps and had 318 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: a two year old as Minister of Education. 319 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you had other squats. 320 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: Ending up becoming seeds for future cooperatives and social centers 321 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: and even some businesses. 322 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 3: But this goal and age of squat and. 323 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: Kind of came into a decline by the nineties and 324 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: two thousand sons gentrification and new laws. 325 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 3: To tighten the screws. 326 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: You know, streets like Barrington Square or Saint Agnus's Police, 327 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: which were once thriving squatted communities. 328 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 3: Were cleared up. 329 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: You know, the law was changed to make couldn't quote 330 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: adverse possession harder, so long term squatters could no longer 331 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: as easily clean ownership. And then sitt councils like Lambeth 332 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: Council began selling off properties that it had ignored for decades, 333 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: evicting people who have been living there for decades or 334 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: reason families. 335 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess post thatcher like when they could sell 336 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: off the council houses like that massively contributed to the 337 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: decline of working class communities, right. And then Britain went 338 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 2: through this extreme manoliberal turn in the late nineties with 339 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: like New Labor, and Labour's entire thing came to be 340 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 2: punting down on the young people and the working class. 341 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 2: So like it lines up with our general political like 342 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 2: that was that I was a teenager at that time, Right, 343 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 2: I remember how belie it felt to be like all 344 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: the time getting this like oh cool Britanni, you know, 345 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: you know, like Britain is having its like renaissance as this, 346 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: like like like outside of empire, like as a cultural 347 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: capital or whatever. Meanwhile people are struggling to get by 348 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: and people that finding it hard to put food on 349 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: the table. It was just such a I mean, looking back, 350 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: it was the way things were going to be for 351 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: the rest of my life, at least up to now, 352 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: I guess. But at the time I remember it being 353 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: such a jarring experience. 354 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's quite an interesting quote unquote end of history, right. 355 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, it's just the end of caring. Like 356 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 2: it was just such a yeah to be to be 357 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 2: told that we'd like perfected human existence. Meanwhile, racialized violence 358 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 2: was on the increase, right, Like people were struggling. We 359 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 2: like had become more connected and aware of each other struggles. 360 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: Like we could see people around the world, not just 361 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: in the UK struggling, right, or the communities that like 362 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 2: my parents grew up in, just gut it by the 363 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 2: withdrawal of the failure of the industries that were there 364 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 2: before the whole towns with like no reason for existing anymore, 365 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: and then to come on top of that and have like, 366 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 2: oh yeah, but it will cost you more just to 367 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: exist in this town which is shit now and there's 368 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: nothing to do, but we're going to use all the 369 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: power of the state to try and extract every penny 370 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: that you have. 371 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: To squeeze everything out of you. 372 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, just a bleak vision going home now. I just 373 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: see the continuation of that decline of like some of 374 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 2: those towns you know, where there's no particular reason people 375 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 2: to live there and it's where they're from and it's 376 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 2: where their community is, but it's getting harder and harder 377 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 2: for them to live there. And you know, the industries 378 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: that used to at least give people a chance to 379 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 2: like have a dignified life there are now gone. Yet 380 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: the ability of landlords to extract you know, get landlords 381 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 2: now right, These giant corporations building these generic homes, although 382 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 2: for the UK it's still very much there and the 383 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 2: state has doubled down on supporting them and completely refused 384 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: to support its own people. 385 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: Yep, in London, as and elsewhere, the state and the 386 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: capitalist market of hand in hand to relea erase our autonomy, 387 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: our independence, our ability to live and survive. 388 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, ivan as places like. 389 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: Berlin and Amsterdam and Copenhagen had some leaps forward where 390 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: squadron was concerned, you know, legalized housing cooperatives and that 391 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: sort of thing. Particularly in London, that was the opposite 392 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: of the case. You know, things got harder. 393 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Britain led the charge in like this kind 394 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: of particularly cruel and callous neoliberalism right from the nineties 395 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: to today, like with absolutely no concern for the well 396 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 2: being of its people. Even Yeah, you would see it 397 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 2: going to continental Europe, you know, compared to living in Barcelona, 398 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 2: which I did later, Like, squads still existed, people economically, 399 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 2: things were equally dire, right, if not worse. Spain had 400 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 2: a really rough time as fifty of two thousand and eight, 401 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 2: but like the communities hadn't been quite so destroyed by 402 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: the state as they were in many areas of the UK. 403 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean I don't want to paint 404 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: a completely dark picture of London, right because there is 405 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: still anarchy, struggle, there's still radical social centers, there's still yeah, yeah, squats, 406 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: and I mean some squads end up being temporary you know, 407 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: short lived social spaces and centers species to help organize 408 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: sorts of protest or to you know, create comment culture. 409 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 2: But yeah, like it's not. Yeah, I mean I've made 410 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 2: London sound like some kind of like blade renal thing, 411 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: which is not by any mean that I've not spent 412 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,719 Speaker 2: a great deal of my life in London. It's too 413 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: much city for me. 414 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 3: That's fair. 415 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 2: But I do, like I enjoy visiting friends and their 416 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 2: projects there and that kind of thing. And I think 417 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: even post COVID there's been some resurgence. It's difficult. I 418 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 2: don't want to suggest that things are not still extremely 419 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 2: difficult for people trying to make ends meet, because they are. 420 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 2: But like people are aware of the concept of mutual 421 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: aids who may not have been before, and that's been good. Yeah, 422 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: they're still our squad So is struggle. There is still 423 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 2: people fighting very hard to like live a dignified life 424 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: and secure that for other people as well. 425 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 426 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's really what I want to highlight. 427 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: You know that what Squadron represents really is, you know, 428 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, both a struggle for necessity but also an 429 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: example of where I imagination can take us. You know, 430 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: our resistance does not have to take on the same 431 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: old forms of protesters and to devoid we see, right, 432 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: there are things that we can do as ordinary people, 433 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: whether we're black, whether we're gay, whether we're a Bangadasha, immigrants, 434 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: a veteran, as an ordinary boos Son. You can also 435 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: you know, take on direct action to create homes, resist racism, 436 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: build communities, and fight the state. 437 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I think about a lot in Greece, right 438 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: where anarchists have squatted places that were built for like 439 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 2: the era when people could come from northern Europe to 440 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: southern Europe to spend their money and then avoid the winter. 441 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 2: And since you know, general economic decline, that doesn't happen 442 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: as much, and now people have squatted those hotels to 443 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 2: allow migrants to dignified place to live, right. Yeah, that's 444 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: it's really beautiful project. It's envisioning another world literally in 445 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 2: the ruins of the old world exactly. I think it's 446 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 2: a really beautiful thing that people do to to you know, 447 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 2: take that action to address not just to protest something, 448 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 2: but to say, like the system which deprives people of 449 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: even a safe place to live, even the dignity of 450 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 2: being able to sleep in it under a roof at night, 451 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 2: Like we are going to take action that strikes the 452 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 2: roots of that to ensure that we give others that 453 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 2: the dignity that they deserve, and that's really special. 454 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 3: Agreed, Agreed, And I mean I don't want to. 455 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: Romanticize squat in as you know, just a easy way 456 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: of life. 457 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 3: It certainly is not. But it's a quote crime. 458 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: Think the lesson of history is that in times of 459 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: how it is in deprivation, people squat the empty is 460 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: the fact that this has been made illegal. 461 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 3: There's not blind. 462 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: People to the empty buildings or to the use of 463 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: squat And as a tactic, the crack speak in Amsterdam 464 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: East promotes the slogan what neat Marg Khan knog steats, 465 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: what is not allowed is still possible? 466 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 3: Forgive my terrible Dutch. 467 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, mine's not much better. Yeah, I like that's a lot. 468 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: Like I think the issue of homelessness in the United 469 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 2: States in particular is something that like I think about 470 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: a lot because I travel a lot. I remember sitting 471 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 2: in a cafe in Kurdistan and I'd just been I 472 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: was outside of just walking around and some people invite 473 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: me to join their dominoes game. So I was playing 474 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: dominoes and you know, like practicing my terrible Kurdish and 475 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 2: these guys were asking me like, is it true that 476 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: like people, and like they were especially interested in, like 477 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: the veterans who had been US soldiers, like sleep on 478 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: the street in America. And I was like, yeah, that's 479 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 2: the thing, like, and they were like, why, what's the 480 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: deal with that? And the answer is that we have 481 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: enough houses for everyone, but we've just treated them as 482 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 2: a commodity to exchange. Right, We've been told that people 483 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 2: can't live there, even though there's space for them to live, 484 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 2: and even though it's actively hurting them living on the street. Right, 485 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 2: it's such a condemnation of the situation we're in as 486 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 2: a society in need. 487 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 3: It is what does the future look like? You know? 488 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: None of us can really know, Yeah, but maybe we 489 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: can sketch some outlines of how we can approach lanus differently. 490 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: We could look to the past and a commonstrations of 491 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: the past as inspiration for what might return, and we 492 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: could look to our own imagination of what the future 493 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: can look like as we refuse domination. 494 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 3: You know, we can. 495 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: Squat, of course, to show the cracks in this concept 496 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: of property. You know, we can collective eze and collectively 497 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: organize spaces for farming or production. You know, we can really, 498 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: really could do any number of things. I think the 499 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: guidance thread though, has to be equity. You know, it 500 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: has to be recognition that nobody has a right to land. 501 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,719 Speaker 1: They don't use that absence. See landlord is some something 502 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: utterly absurd and can be rejected out right. I think 503 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: we can also consider the non human in our approach 504 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: to land in the future, you know, considering the rights 505 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: and responsibilities we have toward animals and plants that live 506 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: in spaces that you know, should have their own existence 507 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: beyond human utility. There will always be conflicts about how 508 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: we can use these spaces and also how we might 509 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: resolve these disputes. But I think it is clear that 510 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: whereever there's somebody who attempts to monopolize land by force, 511 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: we can respond adequately. I think the tactic of squat 512 00:29:51,720 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: in is one small, unfinished but necessary step towards a 513 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: future where we reject property, where land is shared, where 514 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: domination is abolished, where we as a human community and 515 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: as a living community, can free decide together how we 516 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: live on this earth. We'll just have to see that's 517 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: it for me or power to all the people this 518 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: has been It could Happen Here. 519 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 3: I'm Andrew Sage. That is James Stout and peace. It 520 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 521 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 522 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 3: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 523 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 524 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 3: You can now find sources for it could Happen Here 525 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 3: listened directly in episode descriptions. 526 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.