WEBVTT - Lenny Kravitz 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:13.920 Pushkin. In the opening lines of his New York Times 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.840 best selling memoir Let Love Rule, Lenny Kravitz writes that 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.520 he is deeply two sided. His young life was all 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:25.959 about opposites and extremes, black and white. He grew up 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.960 between his West Indian grandparents home in Brooklyn and his parents' 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.680 home on the Upper East Side, where he was surrounded 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.360 by his family's famous friends, legends like Miles Davis and 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.600 Duke Ellington. When Lenny was eleven, his mother, Roxy Roker, 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.040 landed his starring role on the iconic sitcom The Jeffersons, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.400 moving the family out west to Los Angeles, where Lenny 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.800 fell in love with classic rock, funk, and skate culture. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.920 It's also where Lenny and Rick Rubin eventually became fast 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.960 friends in the late eighties. In this conversation, Lenny tells 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.960 Rick candid stories about his relationship with Lisa Bonne and 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.880 talks about how writing his memoir helped him finally find 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.360 peace with his overbearing father. They also talk about the 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.080 time Lenny, Rick, and Johnny Cash were all roommates, and 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:19.360 the day Lenny received the most devastating news of his life. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.800 This is broken record. Liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:31.680 I'm justin Richmonds. Here's Rick Ruben and Lenny Kravitz. For 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:33.520 some reason, I didn't realize that you grew up in 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.280 New York City. I had no idea. For some reason, 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.319 I thought you were a California kid. So I was 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:44.800 born in bed Sty, and for the first five years 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.960 in my life, I lived in bed Sty on the 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.680 weekdays and then lived on the Opper east Side with 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.640 my parents on the weekends. My mom was doing theater, 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.200 my mom was working at NBC, my father was at NBC, 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.720 and so they were real busy, but I saw them 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.760 every day. They'd come from Rockefeller Center over the bridge 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.720 to Brooklyn, have dinner with me, play with me, hang 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.480 out for a bit, put me to bed, and then 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:14.399 my mom would go to a play. My dad would 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.240 go to a jazz club or do whatever because he 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.960 was also promoting jazz. And then when I turned five, 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.480 I moved to the Upper east Side, which was eighty 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.519 second between Fifth and Madison, across from the Metropolitan Museum 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.520 of Art, and I lived there on the weekdays. But 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.440 that was my life, going back and forth between Bedstein 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:41.040 the Upper east Side, which was a very interesting contrast. Yeah, 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.120 do you know. Do you know how your parents met. Yeah, 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.120 they met at Rockefeller Center. My mother was a secretary 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:54.600 working for some you know, big cat there, and my 0:02:54.680 --> 0:03:01.240 father was an assignmon editor for NBC News and they met. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.800 My father started out as a page worked his way up, 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.480 was there for many years, and he met my mom 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:12.000 at work. I think they bonded over, you know, theater 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:16.680 and music and the arts, and they started dating and 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.480 then he asked her to marry him, and they got married. Yet, beautiful, 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.000 do you have any brothers and sisters or just you? 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.040 I have two sisters from my father's first marriage, so 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.240 half sisters, but you know they're my sisters, don't We 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.119 don't do the half and the whatever. They're my sisters. 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.800 But it was really nice to find out that I 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.160 had sisters. When did you find out? I was small. 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.560 I remember being like, I don't know, three or something 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.360 when I met them. They lived up state in New York. 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.000 They lived in Monroe, about an hour and twenty minutes 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.200 outside of the city. I was an only child, and 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.520 I always kind of wished I had brothers or sisters, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.680 and then all of a sudden, I had these two sisters, 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.480 and it was it was cool, and then they started, 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.119 you know, spending more time with us. They started going 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:06.320 on family holidays with us. My mom insisted that my father, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.680 you know, men in this relationship. I think he wasn't 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.520 so close to them at the time that they got together, 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.039 or just that he was you know, you know, taking 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.000 his time or whatever from whatever breakup he had had before. 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.279 But my mom let him know that she could not 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.600 marry him and be with him if he hadn't if 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.240 he didn't fix that and he didn't get tight with 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.960 his family. That's the kind of person that my mother was, 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.760 as you know personally, you you knew her, and so 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.440 that's how that happened. I understood your mom was a 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.680 strong force, yeah, and all about family and love. I 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.960 think I only met your dad one time, if I 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.960 remember correctly. We were I can't remember where it was, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.640 but we were next to a tour bus. I remember 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.880 we were outside. Really yeah, we were outside of a 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:59.039 tour bus, either coming before or after a show, and 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.080 we just talked for a little bit. But I remember 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.440 he seemed like a cool cat. No, he was cool 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:08.880 with all of our dynamics you know that were interesting 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.839 and tough and beautiful. He was a cool person. And 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.800 you know, in writing this book that I just wrote, 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.840 it helped me to understand and love him even more 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.200 because for the first time I saw him as a character. 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.560 I saw him as a person, as a man living 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:31.000 his life, dealing with whatever demons and things that he 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.080 had to deal with. And I realized that he was 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.840 operating on what he had, what he experienced with his parents, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.680 what he experienced in the military, all the things that 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.880 he went through. He was dealing with what he had 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.280 and he did the best he could with it. And 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.679 for the first time, as I said, I was able 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.600 to see him as not my dad, but as this person, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.599 and it was really freeing. Even though we made peace 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.480 before he died, there were still things I realized that 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.080 I was holding onto, and in writing this book, it 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.800 all vanished and I loved him and liked him more 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.839 than I ever had. And that was beautiful. That was 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.560 the gift and the reward and the success of writing 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.719 this book. Beautiful, beautiful. What motivated what motivated to do 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.440 the book? I never thought I would write a book. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.599 I wasn't interested in writing a book. A mutual friend 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.400 introduced me to David Ritz, who is an incredible writer 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.360 and has written all of these books on everybody from 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.520 Ray Charles to Marvin Gaye to woul Rita Franklin. And 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.280 I met him at a dinner. We were at a 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:44.320 Japanese restaurant in New York, and he said, you should 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.760 write a book, and I want to help you write it. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.920 And I basically told him that I really never thought 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.800 about it and wasn't interested in it. But by the 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:55.719 time the dinner was over, he convinced me. I thought 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:00.839 he was really interesting and smart, and I took it 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.280 as a challenge. I thought, well, why not. And then 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.840 he and I started hanging out, and then I spent 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:08.320 a lot of time on my own, and then we'd 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.480 hang out again. And you know, it took a few 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.800 years to slowly put together, and it took me a 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.680 while to actually find my voice how I wanted to 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.840 tell the story. And then in writing the book, I 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.680 realized that I only wanted it to be about the 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.840 first twenty five years from my birth to the release 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.880 of the first album and and the beginning of that tour. 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.360 So the album came out when I was twenty four. Actually, yeah, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.760 that's that's right around the time we met. If I 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.680 remember correctly, we met. We actually met before the album 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.360 came out. I met you at the Roxy. No, yeah, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.440 I remember I did that. I did that showcase at 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.120 the Roxy, and you were there after the show waiting 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.520 to talk to me, and I was like so excited 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.000 to meet you, and we hit it off right away. 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:52.920 It was just very natural. You felt like a brother, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.240 and then we never stopped hanging out. It's true. I remember. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.160 I remember being at a music convention where all of 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:05.440 the different labels were talking about their new upcoming artists, 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.000 and I remember thinking everything was terrible, like all the 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.640 everyone's presentation was like all this new music and nothing 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.240 was interesting. And then there was a clip of you 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.200 and it was like, oh, there's one good new artist. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.040 It was like I was so excited that there was 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.600 one new good artist. And that's what got me to 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.480 come to see the showcase at the Roxy, just based 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.840 on seeing a little clip at a record event and 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.760 thinking this is you know, this stands apart from everything. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.320 And then I saw the live performance, which was unbelievable. 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.480 And you probably met my mother that night because she 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.800 was there. I can't remember. I mean I met her 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.440 plenty of times. He was there, Lisa was there. We 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.600 were all there. Yeah, but you and I hung out 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.200 for a while. I remember it was in the It 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.199 was in the audience. Everybody had left and there's just 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.400 a few people around and you and I were just out. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.920 I remember you were wearing the audience You're wearing kind 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.679 of a winter over. Yep, it was long. I remember 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.240 it was kind of like an old pimp coat to 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:10.120 be to be honest. So funny the details that we remember. Yeah, Man, 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.600 in the in the process of working on the book, 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:18.079 did you remember pieces of stories that, over time and 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.240 thinking about it, came back to you in a way 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.720 that you didn't know that you knew them. I was 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:27.320 quite surprised at how much I remembered, But I tend 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.560 to have a really good, you know, long term memory. 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.559 I remember things from my childhood from you know, when 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.400 I was three years old with detail. Wow. But then 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.280 you know, don't ask me what you know happened yesterday 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.880 or where I put something, you know. But for some reason, 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.079 you know, I didn't have to dig as hard as 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.920 I thought I would have to. And I think it's 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.439 also a time in my life that I really cherished, 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.840 like I understood somehow that I had a really good childhood. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.959 Whatever it was, like, the ups and the downs, whatever, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.560 I enjoyed my childhood. I enjoyed, you know, growing up 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:06.640 in New York City in the late sixties as a 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.880 very small child and the seventies at a time where 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.199 music was so incredible. I mean, all you had to 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.920 do was turn on the radio and everything was there. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.840 I remember listening to w ABC and my father's VW 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:26.000 Bug and you'd hear Simon and Garfunkel next to Aritha Franklin, 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.360 next to Jimmy Hendrix, next to Led Zeppelin, next to 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.040 you know, whomever. You know. It just was all over 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.160 the place. And my mother was an actress. She was 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:41.400 in the theater doing avant garde theater. She was in 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.320 this incredible theater group called the Niger Ensemble Company. So 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.520 I was going to plays. We were going to operas 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.480 and ballets and symphonies in Central Park and Shakespeare in 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.080 the Park and the Jackson Five at Madison Square Garden 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.480 and James Brown at the Apollo and you know, Miles 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.440 Davis and you know Duke Ellington at the Rainbow Room 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.560 and wow, Sarah Vaughan, and I mean it was so colorful, 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:13.040 and my parents had so many wonderful characters around. I 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.079 thoroughly enjoyed my childhood and then growing up on the 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.880 Upper East Side and having the Metropolitan Museum as your backyard. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.520 I'd go in there by myself and get lost and 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.400 look at the art. And I even had a notebook. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:28.920 I mean, I must have been nine years old. I 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.600 had a notebook, and I would take notes on the 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.240 art that I saw and what I liked, and I 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.240 would buy They had postcards in there that you could 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.160 buy with pictures of the art, and I would get postcards, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.800 and you know, I was a member of the chess club, 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.120 played chess, and and then I'd go to bed Sty 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.480 and have that whole life. I got to see the 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.080 birth of hip hop, which of course Brooklyn was one 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.880 of the spots, right absolutely. And I remember the first 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.000 time seeing a guy in the front of his house 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.760 in the in the yard in front of his house 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.839 with two turntables and these big old speakers that he 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.200 had built, and he was mixing and doing this whole thing. 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.240 And I didn't understand what he was doing. Like he's like, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.640 I'm playing music, right, but I didn't. I didn't understand it. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.920 I was like you're playing records like but then I 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.680 it caught on quickly and I saw what they were doing, 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.040 and you know, guys started break dancing and bringing out 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.680 the linoleum floors, you know, onto the sidewalk and it. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.320 You know, I got to see all that, and then 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.440 I moved to LA when I was eleven, moved to 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.000 Santa Monica. Went to school in Santa Monica John Adams 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:40.920 Junior High. It's nineteen seventy five when my mom started 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.960 the Jeffersons and I got to see the birth of 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.520 Dogtown and Z boys incredible. I went to school. I 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:53.880 had English class with this guy named Mike Humpston. His 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.440 big brother was West Humpston, and I remember him bringing 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.440 in a Dogtown board that was hand drawn with the 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.760 cross and the Dogtown and the whole thing, and he 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.719 brought it in and showed, yeah, this is this is 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.760 what my brother's doing. This is Dogtown. So I got 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.000 to see so many things happen as a as a 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:21.640 child that were so exciting and cultural, groundbreaking, historical InCred 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.760 It's funny. It's funny you talk about Dogtown and seeing 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.840 the birth of hip hop and how cool is that? Right? No, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:35.360 it's unbelievable, and it's they're almost the same thing. You know, 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:41.360 they're both Yes, they're both examples of counterculture movements. You know, 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.760 we tend to think of hip hop as a music movement. 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:48.640 It's a counterculture movement. When I saw the Dogtown documentary, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.880 I watched it not looking at it as this is 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.600 about skateboarding. I thought, Oh, this is the Deaf Jam story, 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.440 except they're riding skateboards instead of making music. It's it's 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:03.440 a it was a counterculture rebellion story, and you got 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.319 to witness two in a row that, even though they 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.600 looked different, we're really tapping into the same kind of 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:16.840 youth culture energy of changing the world. Super exciting, super 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.760 exciting and inspiring. And then on top of it, I'm 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.080 growing up between a so called black and white world, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:30.000 Jewish and Christian, both my parents, all these people not 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:35.960 having any understanding of the problems with race. For the 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.200 first six years of my life, I had no clue 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.840 that any of this was an issue, because that's just 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:42.840 the way it was. My mother looked like she did, 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:47.360 my father looked like he did. Both sets of grandparents, aunts, uncle's, cousins, etc. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.320 Our house is full of every race and every type 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.840 of person from every background, religion, you name it, and 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.680 it was that was normal life. And then I went 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.400 to first grade and uh me and my parents because 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.280 we walked in this first day of school, your parents 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.960 walk into school and as it seemed, everybody else's parents 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:14.120 matched except mine. And this kid ran out in front 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.440 of us and he pointed with his finger and he said, 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.760 your father's white and your mother's black. And it was 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.360 like this moment like what is what is that? What 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.080 does that mean? What is that? And why are you 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.200 making a scene? You know? And that's when my mother 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.760 started to talk to me and explain, you know, what 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.000 was what, you know, how the how society operated, you know, 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.360 how the world was seeing things. So it was a 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.040 really rich upbringing, you know, being able to have all 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.520 of these contrasts and to be able to have, you know, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.880 both of these sides, to be able to spend your 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.640 childhood in between two opposites like the Upper East Side 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:58.840 and Bad Sty was phenomenal and taught me so much. 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.200 And then what's funny is Okay, So I moved to 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:05.680 la and I'm seeing the birth of all this skate culture. 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.840 So then I go back to New York. Skateboarding hadn't 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.640 reached then yet. So I'm I got my board and 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:17.440 I'm explaining all this stuff. It's nineteen seventy five, seventy six, 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.560 and they have no idea what I'm talking about. Nobody's 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.240 in the street riding skateboards in New York, and hip 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.400 hop hadn't reached the West Coast in that way yet. 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.480 So I'm watching all these guys breakdance and they're they're 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.240 getting together in their apartments and they're having these you know, 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.080 get together. Everybody's showing their moves and what's going on. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.840 I remember hearing the bridges over for the first time, 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:45.400 you know, Boogie Down Productions, KRS one, and I'm going 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.240 back to LA and no one has a clue of 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.320 what I'm talking about, you know. So I felt like 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.680 I was on the I was on the inside of 0:16:53.680 --> 0:17:00.000 these things that the opposite coast had no idea about. Yeah, incredible, 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:06.320 incredible timing, magic times, very very also in addition to 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.359 hip hop, because I was I was there at that 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.760 time too in New York. Well obviously you're you know, 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.159 you're one of the pioneers, my brother, but there was 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.960 also an incredible club dance music scene in New York 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:25.680 that's revolutionary, you know, like the ESG and Bush Tetras 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.280 and Conk all of the music that that, I guess 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:33.040 now the closest version of it in the world would 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.800 be LCD sound System. You know, they're they're sort of 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:40.000 in the lineage of that New York club dance music 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:46.639 that was so insistent and hypnotic and exciting. Yeah, and 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.040 that didn't exist anywhere else. That was a real New 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.879 York yeah vibe. And I didn't get that till later. 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.200 Like I missed that early hip hop, like that club 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.399 thing in New York. I was too young, But I 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.680 started to party in New York when I was you know, eighteen, 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.960 when I started going back to New York after high school, 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.359 and it was beginning of the house music and the 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.720 you know, the Paradise Garage and all those spots and 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.560 all those great DJs, and yeah, but I missed. I 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.960 missed that part of the of the clubbing. I was 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.159 too young. Do you remember punk Rocotole or was that 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:24.760 before you? My first introduction to punk was in Santa Monica, 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.600 that that sort of West Coast version of what was 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:33.360 going on there were like Black Flag black Flag, Circle Jerks, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.399 Circle Jerks. There was a band that my that my 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.160 girlfriend's brother was in called Sin thirty four. But yeah, 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.520 it was that whole LA thing was Red Cross. One 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.480 of them absolutely, Red Cross had long hair and they 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.879 had more of a sixties punk rock style. They were 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.480 really cool. Yeah, they used to play, you know, on 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:57.359 the pier in different places in town and you know, 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.639 Santa Monica in Venice. So what else was going on 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.000 musically when you came to California? In addition to the 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.439 punk rock, they didn't have hip hop yet. Okay, So 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.520 when I got to La, Okay, I in New York City, 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.720 it was RMB, it was WBLS Frankie Crockery, so that 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.520 was R and B and funk. You know. I was 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.040 going to see things with my parents, So I knew 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:23.000 about blues, I knew about gospel, I knew about you know, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:28.159 funk and R and B and soul. But rock was 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:32.159 not around me so much then and my parents weren't 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:36.080 so into it at that time. So I moved to LA. 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.639 I come to Santa Monica and I meet all these 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.159 kids who were skating and smoking weed and their parents 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.400 or hippies, and I hear led Zeppelin for the first time, 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.440 and I hear the Who, and I hear Cream and 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.879 you know, Hendrix and everything and that, the Doors and everybody. 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.520 That opened my head up and blew my mind. Yeah, 0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:01.240 it's interesting that for you rock music is your music 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.040 as opposed to your parents music. Do you know what 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:05.880 I'm saying. It's like R and B would have been 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.720 your parents' music, and jazz of course that was in there, 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.200 that was in their wheelhouse, you know, so you grew 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.320 up always hearing that. But then when you heard I 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.080 guess hard rock music, that was sort of yeah, that 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.760 was yours. Yeah, absolutely, I discovered that on my own 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.639 with my friends, and you know that all went together, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:29.040 skating and surfing and Zeppelin and smoking weed and you know, 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.159 hanging out. That was all one thing. We'll be right 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.840 back with more from Lenny Kravitz and Rick Rubin after 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:42.400 a quick break. We're back with Rick Rubin and Lenny Kravitz. 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.320 When did you start playing? Well, we had a piano 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.040 in New York in our apartment. We had a little 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:53.000 spin it upright piano in our little one bedroom apartment 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.280 that I used to bang on. And then my dad 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.760 had an acoustic guitar, a classical one with nylon strings 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:04.240 that my mother apparently had bought him because he sort 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.639 of expressed some interest in maybe learning how to play it, 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.920 and I think she was into the idea of being 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.560 serenaded by her husband. But he never he never quite 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.800 got it. So this guitar used to be in the 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.120 closet and I used to bring I used to take 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:20.880 it out when they would go out. When I had, 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.399 you know, the babysitter would come watch me, and I 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:25.560 would go into the closet and it was this forbidden 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:27.800 thing that I wasn't allowed to play with, but I 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.000 was completely attracted to it. So I started like that. 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.080 And then my father bought me my first guitar when 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:38.040 I was maybe eight, took me to Manny's on forty 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:42.320 eight Street and bought me an acoustic guitar. And that's 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:44.080 how I started. And then I went I went to 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.240 a I went to a summer camp upstate New York 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.400 in Roscoe, New York. It was a camp called Lincoln 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.679 Farm where kids learned how to live on a farm 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.320 and deal with animals and deal with you know, planting 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.680 and kayaking and you know, all the things you would do. 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.320 And there was a guy there who was teaching kids 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.520 how to play basic chords on guitar, and I learned 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.800 how to play you know, country roads, Take Me Home, 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:15.000 you know, West Virginia and all that, and learning how 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.800 to play folk songs. Then when I went to LA, 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:20.840 I got my first electric guitar, and my dad bought 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.560 me a Fender jazz Master like Elvis Costello. I didn't 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.399 know about Elvis Costello then, but and then I traded 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:28.840 it in a couple of years later for a less 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:32.520 Paul and that's where I started copying, you know, learning 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:36.000 how to play Zeppelin and Kiss and you know, Jimmy 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.359 Hendricks and trying to figure all that stuff out. And 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:43.359 then drums came, and then bass came after that. What 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:45.400 was the first band who put together or first band 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.960 who played with They weren't bands at first. They were 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.439 jam sessions. We used to have friends that we'd go 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.199 to their houses near where I grew up, most of 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.920 them in Baldwin Hills, and we would jam and we 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.720 would sit there and just calm up on two chords 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:05.119 for you know, five hours. Those those jam sessions in 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.000 Baldwin Hills were like funk jam sessions. We're learning how 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:12.480 to play Rick James and the Gap Band and you know, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:14.879 earth Wind and Fire and all that. And then I 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.720 would jam with my friends in Santa Monica and we'd 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.760 be playing the rock stuff, you know. Yeah, so I 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:23.959