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Speaker 1: Pushkin. In the opening lines of his New York Times

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Speaker 1: best selling memoir Let Love Rule, Lenny Kravitz writes that

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Speaker 1: he is deeply two sided. His young life was all

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Speaker 1: about opposites and extremes, black and white. He grew up

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Speaker 1: between his West Indian grandparents home in Brooklyn and his parents'

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Speaker 1: home on the Upper East Side, where he was surrounded

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Speaker 1: by his family's famous friends, legends like Miles Davis and

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Speaker 1: Duke Ellington. When Lenny was eleven, his mother, Roxy Roker,

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Speaker 1: landed his starring role on the iconic sitcom The Jeffersons,

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Speaker 1: moving the family out west to Los Angeles, where Lenny

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Speaker 1: fell in love with classic rock, funk, and skate culture.

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Speaker 1: It's also where Lenny and Rick Rubin eventually became fast

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Speaker 1: friends in the late eighties. In this conversation, Lenny tells

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Speaker 1: Rick candid stories about his relationship with Lisa Bonne and

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Speaker 1: talks about how writing his memoir helped him finally find

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Speaker 1: peace with his overbearing father. They also talk about the

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Speaker 1: time Lenny, Rick, and Johnny Cash were all roommates, and

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Speaker 1: the day Lenny received the most devastating news of his life.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record. Liner notes for the digital age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmonds. Here's Rick Ruben and Lenny Kravitz. For

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Speaker 1: some reason, I didn't realize that you grew up in

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Speaker 1: New York City. I had no idea. For some reason,

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Speaker 1: I thought you were a California kid. So I was

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Speaker 1: born in bed Sty, and for the first five years

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Speaker 1: in my life, I lived in bed Sty on the

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Speaker 1: weekdays and then lived on the Opper east Side with

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Speaker 1: my parents on the weekends. My mom was doing theater,

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Speaker 1: my mom was working at NBC, my father was at NBC,

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Speaker 1: and so they were real busy, but I saw them

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Speaker 1: every day. They'd come from Rockefeller Center over the bridge

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Speaker 1: to Brooklyn, have dinner with me, play with me, hang

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Speaker 1: out for a bit, put me to bed, and then

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Speaker 1: my mom would go to a play. My dad would

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Speaker 1: go to a jazz club or do whatever because he

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Speaker 1: was also promoting jazz. And then when I turned five,

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Speaker 1: I moved to the Upper east Side, which was eighty

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Speaker 1: second between Fifth and Madison, across from the Metropolitan Museum

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Speaker 1: of Art, and I lived there on the weekdays. But

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Speaker 1: that was my life, going back and forth between Bedstein

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Speaker 1: the Upper east Side, which was a very interesting contrast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you know. Do you know how your parents met. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they met at Rockefeller Center. My mother was a secretary

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Speaker 1: working for some you know, big cat there, and my

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Speaker 1: father was an assignmon editor for NBC News and they met.

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Speaker 1: My father started out as a page worked his way up,

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Speaker 1: was there for many years, and he met my mom

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Speaker 1: at work. I think they bonded over, you know, theater

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Speaker 1: and music and the arts, and they started dating and

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Speaker 1: then he asked her to marry him, and they got married. Yet, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: do you have any brothers and sisters or just you?

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Speaker 1: I have two sisters from my father's first marriage, so

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Speaker 1: half sisters, but you know they're my sisters, don't We

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Speaker 1: don't do the half and the whatever. They're my sisters.

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Speaker 1: But it was really nice to find out that I

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Speaker 1: had sisters. When did you find out? I was small.

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Speaker 1: I remember being like, I don't know, three or something

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Speaker 1: when I met them. They lived up state in New York.

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Speaker 1: They lived in Monroe, about an hour and twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: outside of the city. I was an only child, and

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Speaker 1: I always kind of wished I had brothers or sisters,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I had these two sisters,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was cool, and then they started,

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Speaker 1: you know, spending more time with us. They started going

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Speaker 1: on family holidays with us. My mom insisted that my father,

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Speaker 1: you know, men in this relationship. I think he wasn't

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Speaker 1: so close to them at the time that they got together,

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Speaker 1: or just that he was you know, you know, taking

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Speaker 1: his time or whatever from whatever breakup he had had before.

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Speaker 1: But my mom let him know that she could not

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Speaker 1: marry him and be with him if he hadn't if

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Speaker 1: he didn't fix that and he didn't get tight with

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Speaker 1: his family. That's the kind of person that my mother was,

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Speaker 1: as you know personally, you you knew her, and so

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Speaker 1: that's how that happened. I understood your mom was a

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Speaker 1: strong force, yeah, and all about family and love. I

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Speaker 1: think I only met your dad one time, if I

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Speaker 1: remember correctly. We were I can't remember where it was,

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Speaker 1: but we were next to a tour bus. I remember

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Speaker 1: we were outside. Really yeah, we were outside of a

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Speaker 1: tour bus, either coming before or after a show, and

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Speaker 1: we just talked for a little bit. But I remember

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Speaker 1: he seemed like a cool cat. No, he was cool

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Speaker 1: with all of our dynamics you know that were interesting

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Speaker 1: and tough and beautiful. He was a cool person. And

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Speaker 1: you know, in writing this book that I just wrote,

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Speaker 1: it helped me to understand and love him even more

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Speaker 1: because for the first time I saw him as a character.

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Speaker 1: I saw him as a person, as a man living

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Speaker 1: his life, dealing with whatever demons and things that he

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Speaker 1: had to deal with. And I realized that he was

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Speaker 1: operating on what he had, what he experienced with his parents,

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Speaker 1: what he experienced in the military, all the things that

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Speaker 1: he went through. He was dealing with what he had

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Speaker 1: and he did the best he could with it. And

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Speaker 1: for the first time, as I said, I was able

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Speaker 1: to see him as not my dad, but as this person,

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Speaker 1: and it was really freeing. Even though we made peace

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Speaker 1: before he died, there were still things I realized that

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Speaker 1: I was holding onto, and in writing this book, it

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Speaker 1: all vanished and I loved him and liked him more

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Speaker 1: than I ever had. And that was beautiful. That was

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Speaker 1: the gift and the reward and the success of writing

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Speaker 1: this book. Beautiful, beautiful. What motivated what motivated to do

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Speaker 1: the book? I never thought I would write a book.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't interested in writing a book. A mutual friend

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Speaker 1: introduced me to David Ritz, who is an incredible writer

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Speaker 1: and has written all of these books on everybody from

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Speaker 1: Ray Charles to Marvin Gaye to woul Rita Franklin. And

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Speaker 1: I met him at a dinner. We were at a

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Speaker 1: Japanese restaurant in New York, and he said, you should

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Speaker 1: write a book, and I want to help you write it.

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Speaker 1: And I basically told him that I really never thought

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Speaker 1: about it and wasn't interested in it. But by the

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Speaker 1: time the dinner was over, he convinced me. I thought

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Speaker 1: he was really interesting and smart, and I took it

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Speaker 1: as a challenge. I thought, well, why not. And then

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Speaker 1: he and I started hanging out, and then I spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time on my own, and then we'd

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Speaker 1: hang out again. And you know, it took a few

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Speaker 1: years to slowly put together, and it took me a

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Speaker 1: while to actually find my voice how I wanted to

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Speaker 1: tell the story. And then in writing the book, I

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Speaker 1: realized that I only wanted it to be about the

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Speaker 1: first twenty five years from my birth to the release

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Speaker 1: of the first album and and the beginning of that tour.

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Speaker 1: So the album came out when I was twenty four. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's right around the time we met. If I

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Speaker 1: remember correctly, we met. We actually met before the album

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Speaker 1: came out. I met you at the Roxy. No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember I did that. I did that showcase at

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Speaker 1: the Roxy, and you were there after the show waiting

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Speaker 1: to talk to me, and I was like so excited

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Speaker 1: to meet you, and we hit it off right away.

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Speaker 1: It was just very natural. You felt like a brother,

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Speaker 1: and then we never stopped hanging out. It's true. I remember.

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Speaker 1: I remember being at a music convention where all of

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Speaker 1: the different labels were talking about their new upcoming artists,

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Speaker 1: and I remember thinking everything was terrible, like all the

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Speaker 1: everyone's presentation was like all this new music and nothing

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Speaker 1: was interesting. And then there was a clip of you

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Speaker 1: and it was like, oh, there's one good new artist.

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Speaker 1: It was like I was so excited that there was

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Speaker 1: one new good artist. And that's what got me to

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Speaker 1: come to see the showcase at the Roxy, just based

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Speaker 1: on seeing a little clip at a record event and

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Speaker 1: thinking this is you know, this stands apart from everything.

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Speaker 1: And then I saw the live performance, which was unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: And you probably met my mother that night because she

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Speaker 1: was there. I can't remember. I mean I met her

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Speaker 1: plenty of times. He was there, Lisa was there. We

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Speaker 1: were all there. Yeah, but you and I hung out

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Speaker 1: for a while. I remember it was in the It

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Speaker 1: was in the audience. Everybody had left and there's just

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Speaker 1: a few people around and you and I were just out.

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Speaker 1: I remember you were wearing the audience You're wearing kind

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Speaker 1: of a winter over. Yep, it was long. I remember

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Speaker 1: it was kind of like an old pimp coat to

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Speaker 1: be to be honest. So funny the details that we remember. Yeah, Man,

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Speaker 1: in the in the process of working on the book,

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Speaker 1: did you remember pieces of stories that, over time and

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Speaker 1: thinking about it, came back to you in a way

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Speaker 1: that you didn't know that you knew them. I was

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Speaker 1: quite surprised at how much I remembered, But I tend

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Speaker 1: to have a really good, you know, long term memory.

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Speaker 1: I remember things from my childhood from you know, when

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Speaker 1: I was three years old with detail. Wow. But then

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Speaker 1: you know, don't ask me what you know happened yesterday

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Speaker 1: or where I put something, you know. But for some reason,

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't have to dig as hard as

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Speaker 1: I thought I would have to. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: also a time in my life that I really cherished,

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Speaker 1: like I understood somehow that I had a really good childhood.

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Speaker 1: Whatever it was, like, the ups and the downs, whatever,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed my childhood. I enjoyed, you know, growing up

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Speaker 1: in New York City in the late sixties as a

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Speaker 1: very small child and the seventies at a time where

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Speaker 1: music was so incredible. I mean, all you had to

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Speaker 1: do was turn on the radio and everything was there.

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Speaker 1: I remember listening to w ABC and my father's VW

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Speaker 1: Bug and you'd hear Simon and Garfunkel next to Aritha Franklin,

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Speaker 1: next to Jimmy Hendrix, next to Led Zeppelin, next to

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Speaker 1: you know, whomever. You know. It just was all over

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Speaker 1: the place. And my mother was an actress. She was

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Speaker 1: in the theater doing avant garde theater. She was in

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Speaker 1: this incredible theater group called the Niger Ensemble Company. So

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Speaker 1: I was going to plays. We were going to operas

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Speaker 1: and ballets and symphonies in Central Park and Shakespeare in

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Speaker 1: the Park and the Jackson Five at Madison Square Garden

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Speaker 1: and James Brown at the Apollo and you know, Miles

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Speaker 1: Davis and you know Duke Ellington at the Rainbow Room

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Speaker 1: and wow, Sarah Vaughan, and I mean it was so colorful,

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Speaker 1: and my parents had so many wonderful characters around. I

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Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoyed my childhood and then growing up on the

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Speaker 1: Upper East Side and having the Metropolitan Museum as your backyard.

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Speaker 1: I'd go in there by myself and get lost and

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Speaker 1: look at the art. And I even had a notebook.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I must have been nine years old. I

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Speaker 1: had a notebook, and I would take notes on the

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Speaker 1: art that I saw and what I liked, and I

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Speaker 1: would buy They had postcards in there that you could

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Speaker 1: buy with pictures of the art, and I would get postcards,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I was a member of the chess club,

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Speaker 1: played chess, and and then I'd go to bed Sty

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Speaker 1: and have that whole life. I got to see the

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Speaker 1: birth of hip hop, which of course Brooklyn was one

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Speaker 1: of the spots, right absolutely. And I remember the first

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Speaker 1: time seeing a guy in the front of his house

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Speaker 1: in the in the yard in front of his house

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Speaker 1: with two turntables and these big old speakers that he

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Speaker 1: had built, and he was mixing and doing this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't understand what he was doing. Like he's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm playing music, right, but I didn't. I didn't understand it.

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Speaker 1: I was like you're playing records like but then I

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Speaker 1: it caught on quickly and I saw what they were doing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, guys started break dancing and bringing out

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Speaker 1: the linoleum floors, you know, onto the sidewalk and it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I got to see all that, and then

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Speaker 1: I moved to LA when I was eleven, moved to

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Speaker 1: Santa Monica. Went to school in Santa Monica John Adams

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Speaker 1: Junior High. It's nineteen seventy five when my mom started

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Speaker 1: the Jeffersons and I got to see the birth of

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Speaker 1: Dogtown and Z boys incredible. I went to school. I

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Speaker 1: had English class with this guy named Mike Humpston. His

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Speaker 1: big brother was West Humpston, and I remember him bringing

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Speaker 1: in a Dogtown board that was hand drawn with the

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Speaker 1: cross and the Dogtown and the whole thing, and he

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Speaker 1: brought it in and showed, yeah, this is this is

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Speaker 1: what my brother's doing. This is Dogtown. So I got

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Speaker 1: to see so many things happen as a as a

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Speaker 1: child that were so exciting and cultural, groundbreaking, historical InCred

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Speaker 1: It's funny. It's funny you talk about Dogtown and seeing

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Speaker 1: the birth of hip hop and how cool is that? Right? No,

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Speaker 1: it's unbelievable, and it's they're almost the same thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're both Yes, they're both examples of counterculture movements. You know,

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Speaker 1: we tend to think of hip hop as a music movement.

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Speaker 1: It's a counterculture movement. When I saw the Dogtown documentary,

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Speaker 1: I watched it not looking at it as this is

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Speaker 1: about skateboarding. I thought, Oh, this is the Deaf Jam story,

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Speaker 1: except they're riding skateboards instead of making music. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a it was a counterculture rebellion story, and you got

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Speaker 1: to witness two in a row that, even though they

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Speaker 1: looked different, we're really tapping into the same kind of

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Speaker 1: youth culture energy of changing the world. Super exciting, super

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Speaker 1: exciting and inspiring. And then on top of it, I'm

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Speaker 1: growing up between a so called black and white world,

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Speaker 1: Jewish and Christian, both my parents, all these people not

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Speaker 1: having any understanding of the problems with race. For the

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Speaker 1: first six years of my life, I had no clue

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Speaker 1: that any of this was an issue, because that's just

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Speaker 1: the way it was. My mother looked like she did,

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Speaker 1: my father looked like he did. Both sets of grandparents, aunts, uncle's, cousins, etc.

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Speaker 1: Our house is full of every race and every type

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Speaker 1: of person from every background, religion, you name it, and

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Speaker 1: it was that was normal life. And then I went

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Speaker 1: to first grade and uh me and my parents because

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Speaker 1: we walked in this first day of school, your parents

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Speaker 1: walk into school and as it seemed, everybody else's parents

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Speaker 1: matched except mine. And this kid ran out in front

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Speaker 1: of us and he pointed with his finger and he said,

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Speaker 1: your father's white and your mother's black. And it was

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Speaker 1: like this moment like what is what is that? What

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Speaker 1: does that mean? What is that? And why are you

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Speaker 1: making a scene? You know? And that's when my mother

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Speaker 1: started to talk to me and explain, you know, what

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Speaker 1: was what, you know, how the how society operated, you know,

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Speaker 1: how the world was seeing things. So it was a

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Speaker 1: really rich upbringing, you know, being able to have all

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Speaker 1: of these contrasts and to be able to have, you know,

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Speaker 1: both of these sides, to be able to spend your

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Speaker 1: childhood in between two opposites like the Upper East Side

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Speaker 1: and Bad Sty was phenomenal and taught me so much.

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Speaker 1: And then what's funny is Okay, So I moved to

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Speaker 1: la and I'm seeing the birth of all this skate culture.

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Speaker 1: So then I go back to New York. Skateboarding hadn't

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Speaker 1: reached then yet. So I'm I got my board and

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Speaker 1: I'm explaining all this stuff. It's nineteen seventy five, seventy six,

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Speaker 1: and they have no idea what I'm talking about. Nobody's

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Speaker 1: in the street riding skateboards in New York, and hip

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Speaker 1: hop hadn't reached the West Coast in that way yet.

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Speaker 1: So I'm watching all these guys breakdance and they're they're

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Speaker 1: getting together in their apartments and they're having these you know,

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Speaker 1: get together. Everybody's showing their moves and what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I remember hearing the bridges over for the first time,

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Speaker 1: you know, Boogie Down Productions, KRS one, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: back to LA and no one has a clue of

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, you know. So I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was on the I was on the inside of

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Speaker 1: these things that the opposite coast had no idea about. Yeah, incredible,

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Speaker 1: incredible timing, magic times, very very also in addition to

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Speaker 1: hip hop, because I was I was there at that

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Speaker 1: time too in New York. Well obviously you're you know,

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Speaker 1: you're one of the pioneers, my brother, but there was

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Speaker 1: also an incredible club dance music scene in New York

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Speaker 1: that's revolutionary, you know, like the ESG and Bush Tetras

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Speaker 1: and Conk all of the music that that, I guess

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Speaker 1: now the closest version of it in the world would

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Speaker 1: be LCD sound System. You know, they're they're sort of

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Speaker 1: in the lineage of that New York club dance music

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Speaker 1: that was so insistent and hypnotic and exciting. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that didn't exist anywhere else. That was a real New

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Speaker 1: York yeah vibe. And I didn't get that till later.

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Speaker 1: Like I missed that early hip hop, like that club

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Speaker 1: thing in New York. I was too young, But I

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Speaker 1: started to party in New York when I was you know, eighteen,

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Speaker 1: when I started going back to New York after high school,

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Speaker 1: and it was beginning of the house music and the

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Speaker 1: you know, the Paradise Garage and all those spots and

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Speaker 1: all those great DJs, and yeah, but I missed. I

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Speaker 1: missed that part of the of the clubbing. I was

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Speaker 1: too young. Do you remember punk Rocotole or was that

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Speaker 1: before you? My first introduction to punk was in Santa Monica,

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Speaker 1: that that sort of West Coast version of what was

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Speaker 1: going on there were like Black Flag black Flag, Circle Jerks,

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Speaker 1: Circle Jerks. There was a band that my that my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend's brother was in called Sin thirty four. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was that whole LA thing was Red Cross. One

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Speaker 1: of them absolutely, Red Cross had long hair and they

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Speaker 1: had more of a sixties punk rock style. They were

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Speaker 1: really cool. Yeah, they used to play, you know, on

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Speaker 1: the pier in different places in town and you know,

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Speaker 1: Santa Monica in Venice. So what else was going on

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Speaker 1: musically when you came to California? In addition to the

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Speaker 1: punk rock, they didn't have hip hop yet. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: when I got to La, Okay, I in New York City,

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Speaker 1: it was RMB, it was WBLS Frankie Crockery, so that

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Speaker 1: was R and B and funk. You know. I was

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Speaker 1: going to see things with my parents, So I knew

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Speaker 1: about blues, I knew about gospel, I knew about you know,

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Speaker 1: funk and R and B and soul. But rock was

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Speaker 1: not around me so much then and my parents weren't

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Speaker 1: so into it at that time. So I moved to LA.

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Speaker 1: I come to Santa Monica and I meet all these

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Speaker 1: kids who were skating and smoking weed and their parents

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Speaker 1: or hippies, and I hear led Zeppelin for the first time,

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Speaker 1: and I hear the Who, and I hear Cream and

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Speaker 1: you know, Hendrix and everything and that, the Doors and everybody.

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Speaker 1: That opened my head up and blew my mind. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that for you rock music is your music

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Speaker 1: as opposed to your parents music. Do you know what

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00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like R and B would have been

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00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 1: your parents' music, and jazz of course that was in there,

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00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 1: that was in their wheelhouse, you know, so you grew

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Speaker 1: up always hearing that. But then when you heard I

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00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 1: guess hard rock music, that was sort of yeah, that

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00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: was yours. Yeah, absolutely, I discovered that on my own

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Speaker 1: with my friends, and you know that all went together,

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00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: skating and surfing and Zeppelin and smoking weed and you know,

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Speaker 1: hanging out. That was all one thing. We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back with more from Lenny Kravitz and Rick Rubin after

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Speaker 1: a quick break. We're back with Rick Rubin and Lenny Kravitz.

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Speaker 1: When did you start playing? Well, we had a piano

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Speaker 1: in New York in our apartment. We had a little

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Speaker 1: spin it upright piano in our little one bedroom apartment

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Speaker 1: that I used to bang on. And then my dad

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Speaker 1: had an acoustic guitar, a classical one with nylon strings

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Speaker 1: that my mother apparently had bought him because he sort

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00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 1: of expressed some interest in maybe learning how to play it,

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00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: and I think she was into the idea of being

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00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: serenaded by her husband. But he never he never quite

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Speaker 1: got it. So this guitar used to be in the

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Speaker 1: closet and I used to bring I used to take

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Speaker 1: it out when they would go out. When I had,

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00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: you know, the babysitter would come watch me, and I

364
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 1: would go into the closet and it was this forbidden

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00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 1: thing that I wasn't allowed to play with, but I

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Speaker 1: was completely attracted to it. So I started like that.

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Speaker 1: And then my father bought me my first guitar when

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Speaker 1: I was maybe eight, took me to Manny's on forty

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Speaker 1: eight Street and bought me an acoustic guitar. And that's

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Speaker 1: how I started. And then I went I went to

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Speaker 1: a I went to a summer camp upstate New York

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Speaker 1: in Roscoe, New York. It was a camp called Lincoln

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Speaker 1: Farm where kids learned how to live on a farm

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Speaker 1: and deal with animals and deal with you know, planting

375
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Speaker 1: and kayaking and you know, all the things you would do.

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Speaker 1: And there was a guy there who was teaching kids

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00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: how to play basic chords on guitar, and I learned

378
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: how to play you know, country roads, Take Me Home,

379
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, West Virginia and all that, and learning how

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00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: to play folk songs. Then when I went to LA,

381
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: I got my first electric guitar, and my dad bought

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Speaker 1: me a Fender jazz Master like Elvis Costello. I didn't

383
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: know about Elvis Costello then, but and then I traded

384
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Speaker 1: it in a couple of years later for a less

385
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: Paul and that's where I started copying, you know, learning

386
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: how to play Zeppelin and Kiss and you know, Jimmy

387
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: Hendricks and trying to figure all that stuff out. And

388
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: then drums came, and then bass came after that. What

389
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: was the first band who put together or first band

390
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: who played with They weren't bands at first. They were

391
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: jam sessions. We used to have friends that we'd go

392
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Speaker 1: to their houses near where I grew up, most of

393
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: them in Baldwin Hills, and we would jam and we

394
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: would sit there and just calm up on two chords

395
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: for you know, five hours. Those those jam sessions in

396
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: Baldwin Hills were like funk jam sessions. We're learning how

397
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: to play Rick James and the Gap Band and you know,

398
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 1: earth Wind and Fire and all that. And then I

399
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: would jam with my friends in Santa Monica and we'd

400
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: be playing the rock stuff, you know. Yeah, so I

401
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 1: had two group of friends learning again. Everything was always

402
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: like that. It was the yin and the yang, the contrast,

403
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: and then I slowly figured out how to put it

404
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: all together because I loved both sides. I remember going

405
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: to your house in Baldwin Hills. You went to my

406
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: mom's house, absolutely okay. And it's interesting too bringing up that,

407
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: like Funk, Funk wasn't so big in New York, but

408
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: Funk was really big in California. So it's it's interesting

409
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: that you got to be in that world. The fact

410
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: that you moved around the way you did really did

411
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: expose you to completely different experiences culturally and musically, and

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00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: it's almost like you lived multiple lives, even in even

413
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: just going from Baldwin Hills to Santa Monica. In those

414
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: two worlds, it's like most of the kids in each

415
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: of those places only played in that one play, and

416
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: you got to experience school. School was extremely clicky, like

417
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: at John Adams the surfer skater kids sat in one area,

418
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,959
Speaker 1: you know when outside, you know, for lunch and whatever.

419
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: The black kids were in one area. The Dungeons and

420
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: Dragons kids are in hanging out in one group. And

421
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: then you had the Mexican kids, which a lot of

422
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: them came from Venice, and you had them and it

423
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: was the whole V thirteen thing. And you know, then

424
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: you had like, we even had guys that were like truckers.

425
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: I don't even know how that happened, but guys who

426
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: would wear like Peter Built hats and t shirts and

427
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: they were into trucks. I mean, it was just all

428
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: these groups of people. And then you had the musicians

429
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: and the rock guys and then this guy's It was

430
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: very clicky. And I had a really hard time figuring

431
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: out who I was going to hang out with, because

432
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: I dug them all. So I did that. I hung

433
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: out with everybody. Do you remember any music shows that

434
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 1: you got to see concerts or performances once you got

435
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: to la that as a kid that really like caught you.

436
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: The first one was Earthwit and Fire, Incredible seventy five

437
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: went to the Forum. My godmother had tickets. I mean,

438
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: I knew Shining Star. I knew like I'd heard a

439
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: couple of tunes, but I wasn't into them. Went to

440
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: the Forum to go see them and changed my life. So, uh,

441
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: that was my first show. And then we used to

442
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: go see a lot of jazz concerts in LA. I

443
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: remember going to see going to Playboy Jazz. My parents

444
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: used to take me every year to the Playboy Jazz

445
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: Festival at the Hollywood Bowl and I, you know, we'd

446
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: go see all their friends from Miles to Sarah to

447
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: you know, Count Basie and you know everybody. It was.

448
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: I remember seeing Weather Report, getting to getting to hang

449
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: around with those jazz legends because they were frenzy your parents.

450
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: What was it like being a kid being around most people?

451
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: Could you tell they were different? And if they were,

452
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: how were they different? See, that's the thing. The first

453
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: person I met was Duke Ellington and I'm like five,

454
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: so I don't know anything, but they took me to

455
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: sound check because it was my birthday. My fifth birthday

456
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: was a Duke Ellington concert at the Rainbow Room and

457
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: they wanted to see him before the show sound check.

458
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: They sent me on his lap and I remember him

459
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: just being he had a white suit on head to

460
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: toe and his hair was greased back. It was like

461
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: salt and pepper, mostly mostly white, really elegant, soft spoken cat.

462
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: And I just loved the fact that I was sitting

463
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: there while this guy played piano and I misremember the

464
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: energy coming off of that piano. And then during the show,

465
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: the Duke Ellington Orchestra plays Happy Birthday for Me Wow,

466
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: and his lead saxophonist, Paul all Gonzalvez was his name

467
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: comes up to me right in my face, playing the

468
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: melody to Happy Birthday, right while the orchestra's playing, you

469
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: know the arrangement. And I didn't realize until I was

470
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: probably thirteen, who Duke Ellington really was. I mean the

471
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: American songbook, you know, the compositions, And it was the

472
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: same for Miles. Miles was this really dark. When I

473
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: say dark, I don't mean dark evil dark, just dark,

474
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: interesting character. And he'd be around us because he was.

475
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: He was around me my whole life because he was

476
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: married to my godmother, Cecily Tyson, and she and my

477
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: mother were like sisters. So I was around Miles my

478
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: whole life and he was just this character, and I

479
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: knew he was magical, and I could feel that energy. Yeah,

480
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: but again, not until I became a teenager did I

481
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: understand who Miles Davis was. And we're going to the

482
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: you know, I remember that was during the time when

483
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: he was turning his back to the audience and he

484
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: would just play with his back to the audience because

485
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: he liked the way it sounded. And it was also

486
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: you know, a motherfucker of a move too, you know.

487
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: But I think the beauty of my childhood and those

488
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: experiences were the fact that I did not understand who

489
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: these people were. Yeah. Of course, when your kid, it's

490
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: like you go into every situation open, you know, you

491
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: don't have, yes, you don't have a backstory to compare

492
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: things to, and you're just experiencing the world and it's

493
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: you know, anything we can do to maintain that state

494
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: as long as possible or tap back into it as

495
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: much as possible, keeps you alive and able to move

496
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: forward and grow. Yes, And then it's beautiful to have

497
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: been around them, to know them as human beings and

498
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: then say, oh shite, he's like, oh my god, this

499
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: guy had been around is like an alien, you know,

500
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: just the most incredible you know. So I'm glad that

501
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: it happened that way, you know, and there was nothing

502
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: about fame or stardom or it was just like these

503
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: were artists, you know. Yeah. So another another part of

504
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: it that's interesting is the more you spend time around

505
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: people like that. Yes, you can look back and step

506
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: away and think about how incredible they are and that

507
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: they're aliens and you can't believe it and they're the

508
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: greatest of all time, right, But then also you realize

509
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: they're just people too, you know, they really are just people.

510
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 1: They're just regular people. They may be good at what

511
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: they do, but they are regular people and everyone has

512
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: that in them. You know, everyone has that, So it's

513
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: not it's not we all absolutely everybody's. Everybody has a

514
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: unique gift, absolutely, and it's just for finding it into

515
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: it exactly. And my mother was always really good at

516
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: explain teaching me that through example by example, because she was,

517
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, in her own right, extremely famous. During that time,

518
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: The Jeffersons was a cultural phenomena. You know, eleven seasons

519
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: of this historical TV show, the first interracial couple on

520
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: primetime television, the first interracial kiss, and you know, the

521
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: show was groundbreaking. But during this time where she was

522
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: experiencing this new level of fame, because fame in the

523
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: theater world in New York is a different it's a

524
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: whole different thing. It's about artistry, and if you know,

525
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: you know. But if you don't know, you don't know.

526
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: If you're not a theatergoer, you know. And all of

527
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: a sudden, she became extremely famous, very fast. She was

528
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: already a grown woman, knew who she was, and was

529
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: so humble and kept her feet on the ground. I mean,

530
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: my mother during the height of her fame, we have

531
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: no made we have no housekeepers, we have no assistance,

532
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: there's no nothing. It's us. We're living together as a family,

533
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: and we're taking care of our house. Saturday morning, my

534
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: mother is scrubbing the toilet in her bathroom, scrubbing the floor,

535
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: cleaning the house. I'm cleaning the house, I'm ironing, I'm vacuuming,

536
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm doing the laundry, I'm washing the cars. When you know,

537
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: that's the way I grew up, and she was all

538
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: She would always tell me, that's my job, it's my craft.

539
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: But that's not just who I am, and that's not

540
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: the only thing that defines me. I'm a person and

541
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: She kept it real her entire life, and I'm so

542
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: fortunate that. And I didn't understand it then, because you know,

543
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: you're becoming fifteen and sixteen, and you know, my mom's

544
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: driving Oldsmobile Cutless Supreme, and you know, I'm like, where's

545
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: where's the roles, where's the Mercedes? Like what's going on here?

546
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: You're on you're you're you're on the number one show

547
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: in the country, and and she was like, I don't.

548
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: I don't need that. I don't I don't require her that.

549
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,239
Speaker 1: I don't. You know, it just wasn't her thing, and

550
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: she just kept it so real. And by the time

551
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: I released my first album when I was twenty four,

552
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: I had that in me. I had that base. You know.

553
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: I'd be on tour, come home from a you know,

554
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: sell out world tour, and uh, I'd come visit her

555
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: and she'd be like, all right, I needed to take

556
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: out the trash and do this and do that and

557
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: do this and that. And it was wonderful, you know,

558
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: because people are kissing your ass all over the planet

559
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: and you come home and it's like reality, no, and

560
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: I'm just and I'm just so thankful for that. All

561
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: all of that stuff kept me on the ground. Yeah,

562
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: what was it like for you having a mom who

563
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: was so famous. Well, that was weird because I was

564
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: not used to that. I mean, we were we lived

565
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: our life lives as New Yorkers and you and especially

566
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, because we lived off a Fifth Avenue. So

567
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 1: of course along Fifth Avenue you have a lot of

568
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: rich folks that live in gigantic apartments, you know, pre

569
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: war buildings, and so in New York City, if you

570
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: were poor, if you were middle class, if you were

571
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: extremely rich, you still took the bus. But that was

572
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: New York life. You take the bus if you try

573
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: to go down Fifth Avenue. So we moved around New

574
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: York City. You know, no one ever came up to

575
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: my mother, or very few people. Once we got to

576
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: La and the Jefferson's broke, you know, all of a sudden,

577
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: we're in Lucky Supermarket on Lincoln Boulevard, you know, and

578
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: Pico and people are chasing my mother down the aisle

579
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: while we're trying to buy groceries and people are freaking

580
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: out and you know, autographs and it was just it

581
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: was it was just a new thing, and she was

582
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: really gracious about it. She was so good about it

583
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: and took her time to deal with the people because

584
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: she knew that these people were making her life. Yeah,

585
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, if they're not watching those

586
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: Nielsen ratings aren't going anywhere, you know. But it was odd.

587
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: It was odd for a while too, like whoa people

588
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: like coming into your space and freaking out, you know,

589
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: I imagine, tell me about the first album? How did you?

590
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: How did the first album come to be? At that time,

591
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: I was hustling. I was trying to play, you know,

592
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: do studio work, which was sparse for me because I

593
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: wasn't known. Then I found a gig that was pretty good.

594
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: I would make demos for people if you if you

595
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: had a song and you needed it produced and you

596
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: needed a demo, you'd bring it to me. I'll play

597
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: all the instruments, I'll arrange it, I'll put it together

598
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: for you and then you you know, i'll produce your

599
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: vocal and do and okay, you got a demo, you

600
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: can go. So I used to do that. I played

601
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: behind other people in bands that were trying to make

602
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: it guitar player, bass player, drummer or whatever. And then

603
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: I realized that I needed to make my own expression,

604
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: but I didn't know what it was. I started trying,

605
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: but it was labored and it didn't feel right yet.

606
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: But I was searching. And then during the time when

607
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: Lisa and I got together, we were having just an incredible,

608
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: incredible relationship and a lot of magic and supernatural vibes

609
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: around us and love, creativity. And I moved into her

610
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: house in Venice at that time, and I put all

611
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: my instruments in a room and just all came to me.

612
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: Those songs started downloading, and it was from all my

613
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: experiences that I had before that, everybody that I'd seen,

614
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: everybody I'd heard, all the life that I'd lived, and

615
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: then it was our life and our love that opened

616
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 1: up that portal beautiful and let love rules spilled out.

617
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: I had no idea what style I was going to do,

618
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: what it was going to be, no idea, but it

619
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: started coming and coming. And then I borrowed money from

620
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: my dad, which he was good enough to lend me

621
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: to go into the studio to try to get this

622
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: stuff out of me, and I did. I went back

623
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: to New York, watch it did New Jersey to Hoboken

624
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: and hired Henry Hirsch, who became my longtime engineer for

625
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: many years, because when I was working with him earlier,

626
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: we realized that we had very similar tastes to music

627
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: and also to recordings and recording techniques. Went worked with

628
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: him put this stuff down. Wanted to hire a band

629
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: because I wanted a band experience. I wanted to be

630
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: in the studio like the documentaries I'd seen on all

631
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: the great bands, the Stones and the Beatles and everybody,

632
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: and you know, I wanted to have fun. I wanted

633
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: people there, and I wanted it to be this hang

634
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have girls around and you're gonna be

635
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: doing you know. And I didn't have the money to

636
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: hire musicians, and the guys that would play for very

637
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: cheap weren't cutting it. So Henry said to me, I

638
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: heard you play keyboards, I heard you play drums, I

639
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: heard you play bass, I heard you play guitar. Just

640
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: do it, you know, do it like you know Stevie

641
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: Wonder and Paul McCartney and Prince and just just do it.

642
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: I thought, well, that's gonna be boring. I want to

643
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: be around people. I want to have this this vibe.

644
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: But I had no choice, so I said, all right,

645
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: I'll do it. And it's funny because I was so

646
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 1: influenced and educated by people like Stevie Wonder and Paul

647
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: McCartney and Prince and you got guys like Todd Rundgren

648
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: and you know who were one man bands. But I

649
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: never thought of it. And once I started doing it,

650
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: that was it. I fell into a hole, man, that

651
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: was it became my sound. I had no idea. By

652
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: the way, I never knew that you played everything on

653
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: that record. I never knew that until now, what would

654
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: be the order of events to put down a song

655
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: when you're playing everything yourself. I'd start with drums, which

656
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: was challenging because I'm singing the song in my head

657
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 1: with the arrangement while I'm playing the drum track. So okay, shit,

658
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: oh wait a minute, Am I on the second verse?

659
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: Like you had to really know where the hell you were? Okay,

660
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: now I'm on the bridge. Now I'm on the outro,

661
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: and and I would just sing the song in my head,

662
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: or Henry would play piano or Offender Rhodes or something

663
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: and keep me. I teach him the arrangement, and now

664
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: I had somebody to play too, to actually groove with.

665
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: And then we would take that part off or keep

666
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: it in a couple of instances, and then build on

667
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: top of that. And then after I would normally have

668
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: a drum, then I would do the guitar and get

669
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: the chords and the rhythm, and then bass and then

670
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: keyboards and then whatever else. Then if I was doing

671
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: an orchestration, you know, I'd bring in the string players

672
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you know, just keep building on top.

673
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: And then since the first album, you really haven't stopped. No,

674
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: how many albums have you made. I don't know, twelve, wow,

675
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: thirteen twelve? Yeah, and you've done at least at least

676
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: one world tour for every one of those albums, I imagine.

677
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: Oh no, absolutely. The reason that the albums were two

678
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: or you know, most of them were three years apart,

679
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: sometimes four. You know, I tour a lot, and I

680
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: would go around the world and I would tour for

681
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: two years, you know, and then I have to chill

682
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: and I have to feel myself and see what's going

683
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: on inside of me, and you know, before I can

684
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: do another record. But yeah, I have not stopped. I

685
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: have I have two albums in the can right now.

686
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: What's the most fun part of the process for you?

687
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: Would you say recording, man, I love the studio. I

688
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: still love the studio as much as I did when

689
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: I was a kid. I remember going to recording studios

690
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: I was a young teenager with my dad in LA

691
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: when he was producing folks and trying to do things

692
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 1: in the music business. Just the magic of walking into

693
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: this space where music is made with the console and

694
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: the instruments and the equipment and the producer and the

695
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: arrangers and you know, all these folks that used to

696
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: hang out back in the day. And I still have

697
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: that feeling when I walk into my own studio because

698
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: it's a place where magic happens, and you don't know

699
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: what it's going to be. You don't know when it's

700
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: gonna come, you don't know how it's going to be

701
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: until you finish it. Even if you have it in

702
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: your head, A lot of times it comes out different

703
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 1: differently then you had imagined it. And I love that

704
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: process of painting with music and not knowing what you've

705
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: got until it's done, and there are always surprises, there

706
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: are always challenges. As you know. I love being in

707
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: the studio. I can be in here day and night

708
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: and I'm not I don't get tired of it. I've

709
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: been doing this now professionally for thirty one years, and

710
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: I was in studios hanging out, you know, during my

711
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: mid to late teens. Not jaded, beautiful. And there's something

712
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: also about being able to play all the instruments so

713
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: I can come in here, you know, by myself essentially,

714
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: and I can I can make something. There's something very

715
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: satisfying about that as well. We're gonna take a quick

716
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: break and then we'll be back with more from Lenny Kravitz.

717
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: We're back with Rick Rubin and Lenny Kravitz. You've started

718
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: doing creative work beyond music. What's the first thing you

719
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: got to do outside of music? Design? That was my

720
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: first thing. I didn't I didn't even see that really coming.

721
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: But it started by just designing my own places and working,

722
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, working on furniture and interiors, which was which

723
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: came because again not having any bread in the beginning

724
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: when I lived in Soho, before Soho was all chic

725
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: and all living on Broom Street, I used to go

726
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: out and take the furniture that people have put on

727
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: the side of the street for garbage, and I used

728
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: to take it and fix it or change it. Or

729
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, recover it or And it kind of started

730
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: like that when I did my first loft on Broom

731
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: Street back in the day when I was making Let

732
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: Love Rule. And you know, I've always been into design

733
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: as you have been. I mean I remember walking into

734
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: your house for the first time on Miller and I

735
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: was I was like, man, this guy, this guy's got

736
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: some taste. I mean, you such such beautiful place and

737
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: concepts and the way you put things together, so I

738
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: mean your designer as well, bro. But um, then I

739
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: ended up you know, buying places, fixing them up, selling them,

740
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: buying them, fixing it, selling it up. And then I

741
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: got to the point where it just got ridiculous. I

742
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: was like, I can't keep doing this. So I started

743
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: a company where I could do it for other people.

744
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 1: So I started Kravitz Design and it's been really great.

745
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: We've been working a lot and still working now even

746
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 1: during this time, on several private homes, a hotel in Detroit,

747
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: different products, working with different companies. And the last two

748
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: years I was creative director for Don Perignon, so I

749
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: did I did their photography, which is another thing I do.

750
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: I shot their ads, I designed their products, redesigned bottles, labels,

751
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, their whole presentations. That's something that I do

752
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: even when I'm recording, even when I'm on tour, I

753
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: continue to work. If I have to be working on

754
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: a project, say a hotel project that we're designing and

755
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: making furniture and doing things, my team will fly out

756
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: me when I'm on the road, hang out on the

757
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: tour bus or the plane or whatever. The hotel will

758
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: work and then they'll go back and you know, put

759
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: that into play. But it's something that I continue to

760
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: do no matter what I'm doing. It's it's interesting how

761
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: the different creative avenues play off each other and how

762
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: ultimately it really is just all about taste. It's the

763
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: same thing. It's the same thing. I would assume that

764
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: whether you're producing a record or designing your house, it's

765
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: the same thing. It's the same energy, it's the same flow.

766
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: You start with nothing, you start with an idea, a concept,

767
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: and you start and you it just grows until it's finished.

768
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the same process. In fact, you influenced

769
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: me a lot, actually, because the first time that i'd

770
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: really what was actually it's actually you and Sean Lennon

771
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: and Yoko, because you guys were the first people that

772
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: I saw that had opium beds in their houses. And

773
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: I remember getting into that whole thing and then starting

774
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: to learn about Balini Asian furniture and furniture from you know,

775
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: different places in the East, and but definitely you know,

776
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: as people. We haven't talked about it yet, but for

777
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: your listeners, I mean Rick and I lived together by

778
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: virtue of his generosity and his kindness. I remember you

779
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 1: just saying, you're saying, I just got this house, and uh,

780
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, when you're in La, you're you're you know,

781
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: stay there. It's all good. Just you can stay there.

782
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: It's a big house. I got room, and I remember

783
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: moving in there actually before you did. Yeah, this was

784
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: this was right at the time I was doing the

785
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: Argument and Go my Way video, or right before actually

786
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: because I uh, Cindy Blackman came. I flew her out

787
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: from New York and she came and stayed in the

788
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: house and auditioned and got the got the uh the

789
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: gig in your house. It was actually in your girl

790
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: in your it was like the gym, the gym downstairs.

791
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. And uh, but I remember living in

792
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: your house while there was plastic everywhere, it was dusty,

793
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: they were still paying and plastering and doing and I

794
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: loved it. I was like, yeah, construction, it was full,

795
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: construction zone full and I had like a futon on

796
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: the floor. But I was in heaven. I had this

797
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: I had this place to myself and it was a

798
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: really so very special time for me. Craig Ross was

799
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: was was living there with me as well, and we

800
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: were just having I remember having all these drummers coming in. Fact,

801
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: River Phoenix had a friend that he knew from Florida

802
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 1: that he flew in because he said, this is your drummer.

803
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 1: And it actually got down to that guy and Cindy Wow,

804
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: and we must have seen about fifty drummers that were

805
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: coming through your place. Man. Yeah. But it was just

806
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: a really special time where I was exploring La again

807
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: during this time of you know, my success, which was

808
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: very interesting. Yeah. I learned so much hanging out with

809
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: you and just I mean you really treated me like family, bro.

810
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: And I mean the whole story of you know, my

811
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 1: mother and her going through her sickness and her passing

812
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: with such a monumental song. There's a song on my

813
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: last album I don't even think we've talked about this,

814
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: but there's a song on my last album called Johnny Cash.

815
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: You should check it out. It was on Ray's Vibration,

816
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: and it's dealing with that with the day that I

817
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: found out that my mother passed, I was in Japan

818
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 1: touring for a month. I didn't know that my mother

819
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: was going to, you know, die that quickly. We thought

820
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: she had more time. I didn't want to go on

821
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: the tour, but she and my grandfather made me go.

822
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: My grandfather said, if you don't go, it's gonna kill her.

823
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: You have to go do your job. So I reluctantly went.

824
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: I flew home from Japan. I went straight to your house,

825
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: went to my room, went to the hospital, went and

826
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: saw her. We were there for hours, hours. My dad

827
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: had flown from New York. The family was there, and

828
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: it was time for everybody to take a break, go

829
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: get something to eat. I needed to take a shower,

830
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: do whatever. I drove to your house, and this was

831
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: when Johnny Cash was living in your house as well,

832
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: doing that classic album that y'all did. And I walked

833
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: in the house and the phone rang. I don't remember

834
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: who gave me the phone and they told me that

835
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: my mom passed. And the time that I was driving

836
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: from the hospital to your house. So I'm standing there

837
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 1: by the staircase with this portable phone in my hand.

838
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: Even though I knew it was coming, it was still

839
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: a very hard moment for me. And Johnny and June

840
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: are coming down the stairs and they looked at me

841
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: and said, hey, Lenny, Like I mean, I didn't know them.

842
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: We knew each other because we passed each other in

843
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: your hallways, you know. That's the extent that I knew

844
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash. We were flatmates in Rick Rubin's house, right,

845
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: And so they said what's wrong, and I said, my

846
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: mother just died. And the two of them came to

847
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: me and surrounded me and held me. I don't know

848
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: these people. And by the way, it's Johnny Cash, right,

849
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: and June Carter, and they held me and consoled me

850
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: and just were saying the most beautiful, comforting things and

851
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: that they were sorry. And it was just a real

852
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: moment of humanity, of just being human. And it was

853
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: a monumental moment in my life because the only people

854
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: that were there when I found out was them. Then

855
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: you drove with me to the hospital, and you were

856
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: the first. I mean, you came in there with me.

857
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 1: We saw my mother there together. Remember you were with me.

858
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: And anyway, So there's a song on the last album

859
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: where I was going through a breakup and I'm writing

860
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: to this person, and the chorus of the song says,

861
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: just hold me like Johnny Cash when I lost my mother,

862
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: whisper in my ear, just like June Carter, beautiful and

863
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: though I fight these tears that I hide, just hold

864
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: me tight for the rest of my life. And so

865
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: it deals with me reflecting on the last time that

866
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 1: I was comforted in such a way. What I needed

867
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: from this person that I was singing to was that

868
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash held me when my mother died. It's it's deep,

869
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: but it's yeah, this was all part of the adventure

870
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: of the experience of living with you. Yeah. My greatest

871
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: memory from that night. It's the only time I've ever

872
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: been in the room with a body after the soul

873
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: had passed. Yes, And I remember walking in and thinking

874
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: and I had seen her much more recently than you did.

875
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this part of the story.

876
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: I ran into her, I saw at a restaurant, I

877
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: saw in a restaurant at a weird time, at a

878
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: time when the restaurant should have been closed, an unusual time.

879
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: I went to a restaurant that I didn't normally go

880
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: to at a weird time of the day. It was empty.

881
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: I sit down and it was like three thirty in

882
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: the afternoon, which is like way after lunchtime. Most restaurants close,

883
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, usually they're open for lunch and open for dinner.

884
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: And just felt like going to get something needed a

885
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: weird time. Found that Angelie was open. Don't know why

886
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: I went there because it was a restaurant I never

887
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: went to sing. Sitting in there with my friend Fred,

888
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: who was the designer who helped me work on my

889
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: who built your house in Sutherland. We're sitting there and

890
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 1: who comes in but your mom. And this is maybe

891
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, three weeks before, so I was in Japan.

892
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: You're in Japan, maybe two weeks before, very soon. And

893
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: I remember the conversation we had because it was so

894
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: different than any conversation we had had over the last

895
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 1: few years. Because over the last few years, your mom

896
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: was very defiant, and she was very clear that she

897
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: was going to beat this and that she was going

898
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: to do everything it took to beat it, and she would.

899
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: And she was really strong and she was always doing

900
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: well through this and would try everything and do every

901
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: type of alternative therapy. Oh yeah, she went to Mexico,

902
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: did the whole holistic thing. Yeah, And we would I

903
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: remember we would research together for her and with her

904
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: and share ideas all the time. And I saw her

905
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: in the restaurant and she was completely different and in

906
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: this state of peace that was unbelievable. And I asked

907
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: her how things were going, and she said, everything is.

908
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: It's like, it's wonderful. I know that I'm going to pass.

909
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: I'm completely at peace with it. I'm ready and this

910
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: is this is like, this is what happens now. And

911
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: she was at one with the experience, ready for the experience.

912
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: And then back at the house, you came from Japan,

913
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: and I told you the story because I didn't know

914
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: if she got to tell you this, I don't know.

915
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know if she didn't. So I got to

916
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: tell you that she was ready to go, and it

917
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: was okay. And as we're having this conversation, the phone

918
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: rang because you need it felt like the energy of

919
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: you fighting for her with her shifted when you knew

920
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: that she was ready to go. It's like when you

921
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: heard the story, the energy changed. She was she you

922
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: now knew that she was ready to go, because she was.

923
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: And then the phone rings and it's the hospital, And

924
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: it was almost like energetically, once you knew the story,

925
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: she could go because until then you she was fighting

926
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: and she was obviously waiting for me to get off

927
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: that plane, you know exactly, because by the time I

928
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,760
Speaker 1: got there that day, I mean, it was the last moment.

929
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: And I remember when we went. You went to the

930
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: hospital with me, but I thought you were just like like, Okay,

931
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna go to the hospital with me and you're

932
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: gonna support me. And then I went in and you

933
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: kept walking. I was like, you want to come in

934
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: the room and you and you looked at me and

935
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 1: you were like yes. Like it was like it was

936
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: the most definite yes, Like yes, there was some connection.

937
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: And I'm sure from your years of knowing her and

938
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: also that that moment you guys had at that restaurant,

939
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: but you you wanted to be there and you went

940
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: in there with me, and uh, yeah, that was that

941
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: was her send off. Man. Yeah, And what so My

942
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: takeaway in that moment of seeing her was and having

943
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: just seen her two weeks earlier, was whatever was laying

944
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: on the table there was not her. That was just yeah,

945
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: of course, and I've never experienced that before, but it

946
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: was clear. It's like, that's just clothing, that's just bones,

947
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: that's just flesh. But the vessel, it's a vessel, and

948
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: it couldn't have been clear. That's where I learned it

949
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: in that moment, was that's not her. Yeah, it's amazing

950
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: all in all extraordinary memories and you know, the blessings

951
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: that I've had thus far, and you being a big

952
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: part of that story, that part of my life is

953
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful, man, I'm really grateful. Same. I love

954
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: having you in my life. We've been good friends for

955
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: a long time in their heart, their heart to come

956
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: by and one day and we're gonna we're gonna make

957
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: some music together. Great. I look forward, Yes, sir, well,

958
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,919
Speaker 1: I love you. I love you, brother. I'm so glad

959
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: to see your face and uh, let's speak sooner than later. Man,

960
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm down, all right, my brother. Love love, love love.

961
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: Thanks to Lenny Kravitz for sharing so much of his

962
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: incredible story with Ray. You can hear all of our

963
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: favorite Lenny Kravitz songs on the playlist at broken record

964
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: podcast dot com and be sure to subscribe to our

965
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast.

966
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: There you can find extended cuts of our new and

967
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 1: old episodes. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose,

968
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: Jason Gambrel, Urtin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and his executive produced

969
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: by Mio LaBelle Broken Record is a production of Pushkin

970
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: Industries and if you like Broken Record, please remember to share, rate,

971
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: and review our show on your podcast. Daft our theme

972
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond Bass