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Speaker 1: Oh, Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V.

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Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. One of our episodes this

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Speaker 1: week was about balloons, not in the fun sense, not exactly.

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Speaker 1: So I had some stuff going on when the whole

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Speaker 1: Chinese balloon news was happening. I was not paying attention

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Speaker 1: to the news at all, but it was very difficult

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Speaker 1: to not notice that there was just a ton of

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Speaker 1: conversation about balloons happening. I had this to like vague

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Speaker 1: awareness that there was some kind of balloon. I was

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Speaker 1: seeing headlines that said things like why people are freaking

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Speaker 1: out about spy balloons? And I was like, people are

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Speaker 1: freaking out about spy ball were like, what is going on?

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Speaker 1: And because there was just there was just so much

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Speaker 1: conversation about this balloon and so much conversation about the

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Speaker 1: Japanese balloon bombs of World War Two that in my

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Speaker 1: head it morphed into one thing. And the United States

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Speaker 1: military had shot down a spy balloon off the West coast,

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Speaker 1: not off the coast of South Carolina. And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until I started working on this and actually reading any

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Speaker 1: of these articles that I was like, oh, I kind

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Speaker 1: of have a better sense of what happened. I was

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Speaker 1: not paying attention to any of this, right, I think

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Speaker 1: there's also that thing. I felt like there was a

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Speaker 1: wave of the initial reports splitting most people's reactions, at

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Speaker 1: least on social media, which, given is its own morass,

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Speaker 1: into two camps, one of like high level can spiracy

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Speaker 1: theory and the other being like balloons are super outdated,

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Speaker 1: It's just a balloon, yeah, and not recognizing that there

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Speaker 1: could in fact be a lot of technology involved in

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Speaker 1: a balloon. So it was an interesting thing to watch

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Speaker 1: develop through the lens of people's reactions. Yeah. Yes, Like

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Speaker 1: after the balloon had been shot down in like a

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Speaker 1: couple of days had passed and there was still all

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Speaker 1: of this conversation about balloons and unidentified objects that were

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Speaker 1: being shot down. That was when I was sort of

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Speaker 1: starting to look at the news again, and I started

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Speaker 1: people seeing people who were like, this is all a

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Speaker 1: distraction to distract everybody from the train derailment that happened,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, this too much is going on, right,

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Speaker 1: So there is a monument to the people who were

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Speaker 1: killed in Oregon by this balloon bomb and in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one it was threatened by a forest fire and

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Speaker 1: at the monument, like there is a monument with you know,

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Speaker 1: the names of the people who were killed on it,

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Speaker 1: like that's there, but then there's also a tree that

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Speaker 1: had shrapnel embedded in it from when it exploded, and

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Speaker 1: like that's the shrapnel tree. And so there were these

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Speaker 1: efforts to like save this one specific tree during this

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Speaker 1: forest fire, which I think they did successfully do, like

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Speaker 1: they wrapped the whole tree to try to protect it.

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Speaker 1: The I Think Park Service website says this site is

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Speaker 1: currently inaccessible, so I think post fire, it has not

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Speaker 1: returned to having public access yet, but there is a

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Speaker 1: monument there to that. I had a moment when we

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Speaker 1: were talking about the Japanese tissue paper balloons and their

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Speaker 1: testing procedure where I was like, if I were an

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Speaker 1: installation artist, boy, what I want to do some sort

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Speaker 1: of peace that featured that beautiful lit floor setup where

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Speaker 1: they would look for holes, because that would be an

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Speaker 1: amazing way to like one actually show people how kind

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Speaker 1: of fascinating this entire procedure was to build these things,

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Speaker 1: but too, like you can you know, listen if there

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Speaker 1: are any artist in the crowd they want to work

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Speaker 1: on an installation about the technology and ARTI wore this

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Speaker 1: is your idea, give it to you, go freely. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons that they went with these paper balloons.

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Speaker 1: The paper itself is made from like a shrub that's

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Speaker 1: related to the mulberry tree, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: just call it mulberry paper, even though like it's a

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Speaker 1: slightly different species of plants. But like it was all

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Speaker 1: stuff that was not critically needed for some other aspect

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Speaker 1: of the war effort. Like that was why they didn't

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Speaker 1: really want to go with like the rubberized balloons, was

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Speaker 1: they needed rubber for other reasons. So the only thing

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Speaker 1: of all of it that really did seem like more

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Speaker 1: of like a critical wartime need was the fact that

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Speaker 1: there were edible roots being used to make the paste itself.

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Speaker 1: And hunger was just such a huge problem and so

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Speaker 1: much of Japan with people literally starving to death, and

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Speaker 1: so the fact that people were stealing, I feel like stealing,

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Speaker 1: like what are you gonna do. You're gonna starve to death,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna eat the paste? Like, yeah, stealing has such

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Speaker 1: negative connotations, connotations I don't like there, but like that

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Speaker 1: that part of the story about about these schoolgirls basically

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Speaker 1: trying to subsist on the pace that they were using

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Speaker 1: to make this balloon paper struck me a little bit. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, it's super interesting. I had not thought about

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Speaker 1: how I had this moment while we were recording the Empisodow,

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Speaker 1: and particularly even though I had read it, it really

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Speaker 1: struck me when we were saying the words talking about

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Speaker 1: the Allied Forces use of balloons with the trailing chords.

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Speaker 1: After Winston Churchill was like, I think that'll work, and

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Speaker 1: I literally like the idea that it was like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: these will drag onto trees and cause forest fires, and

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Speaker 1: I just had one of those like heartbreak moments of like,

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Speaker 1: humans are awful. Yeah. The fact that they were slowly

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Speaker 1: dripping mineral oil was also a thing that I was

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Speaker 1: nah all of that. I was just like, this is,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, so interesting because the way their

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Speaker 1: problem solving to like maintain altitude while simultaneously traveling across

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Speaker 1: distances are kind of neat. And then it was like,

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Speaker 1: but all of this, all of this, it's just because

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Speaker 1: we all want to kill each other. And I got

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Speaker 1: very sad for a moment. Yeah, yeah, that's war is bad.

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Speaker 1: That hippie moment of the day. Yeah, I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of hippie moments when we talk about anything related

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Speaker 1: to like wars and combat and fighting and um. It's

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Speaker 1: like the balloons that Japan was launching just were ingenious

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Speaker 1: in so many ways, and they were also made to

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Speaker 1: indiscriminately harm people, which was why why there was a

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Speaker 1: band that was implemented on using balloons as bombers. There

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Speaker 1: are other international laws and treaties and things that are

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Speaker 1: in place now that are like more specifically about things

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Speaker 1: like aircrafts, terrible aircraft things like airplanes, Like there are

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Speaker 1: other laws that are related to like bombs that are

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Speaker 1: not just about balloons obviously, But anyway, anyway, I'm still

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Speaker 1: sort of baffled that for a period of time, it

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Speaker 1: seems like, even though I was not totally aware of

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Speaker 1: everything that was going on in the world, it seemed

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Speaker 1: like every time I looked at anything, it was about balloons,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, what is happening? Yeah yeah, balloons? Yeah, No.

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Speaker 1: Not can have such an iconic image of joy has

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Speaker 1: so often been actually used in a very harmful way.

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Speaker 1: We talked about GK. Chesterton this week and specifically his

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Speaker 1: anti eugenics advocacy. Yeah, I really that part we want

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Speaker 1: to hug him for, but the other parts really frustrating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah after the Yeah, Ellen Swaller Richards was just

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Speaker 1: like the latest example of talking about somebody who had

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Speaker 1: so many things about their lives that seemed so cool,

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Speaker 1: and then it was like, oh, and eugenics, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, I just I really want to talk about

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Speaker 1: somebody that that that opposed it. Like from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: I said that at the top of the show, I

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Speaker 1: did some digging around. There were a few people that

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Speaker 1: I was sort of thinking about doing an episode on,

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Speaker 1: and I finally wound up on G. K. Chesterton before

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Speaker 1: really realizing like the scope of the anti semitism discussion

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Speaker 1: and the fact that there are people that were probably

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Speaker 1: going to get emails from who will just vigorously defend

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Speaker 1: all allegations of anti Semitism against him, and that like

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Speaker 1: the argument really comes off to me as being like,

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Speaker 1: but he had Jewish friends and he condemned Hitler, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, sure that can be true. This writing over

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Speaker 1: here that he wrote and finds his name too, though,

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Speaker 1: like that also is true. Do you know what it

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Speaker 1: reminds me of in a different way is HP Lovecraft

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Speaker 1: because sure's writing super duper racist. But his wife, who

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Speaker 1: he divorced but they remain friends, and she always sort

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Speaker 1: of advocated for a much better image of him than

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Speaker 1: some people had, was always like, no, he really loves

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Speaker 1: black people individually. He just likes to write things to

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Speaker 1: rile people up. And I'm like, Okay, that's still racist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like if it's not clear to people that it is

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Speaker 1: somehow like a tool to make people think, then you're

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Speaker 1: probably just feeding people that want to think that already anyway, right,

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Speaker 1: I do Like part of me was like, should we

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Speaker 1: do more than one installment? Like should should it be

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Speaker 1: a multi part GK. Chesterton episode? Because they're really dig

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Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about. And in the course

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Speaker 1: of research, I read like a five thousand word essay

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Speaker 1: that was just on the detective stories, and a different

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Speaker 1: five thousand word essay that was just on the literary biographies,

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Speaker 1: and a different five thousand word essay that was just

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Speaker 1: like there were all these different five thousand I'm like,

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Speaker 1: who's commissioning five thousand word essays on G K? Chesterton

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Speaker 1: because they were all about that long, and they were

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Speaker 1: all focused on, like a discreete part of his literary career,

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Speaker 1: which did have a lot of overlap, like a lot

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Speaker 1: of these things pulled in multiple different genres and different

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Speaker 1: like his fiction would be very influenced by his political

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Speaker 1: ideas and all this stuff. And I was like, we're

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Speaker 1: just we're not going to be able to do justice

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Speaker 1: to any of it in one episode. And then I

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Speaker 1: was like, we're not. We wouldn't be able to do

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Speaker 1: justice in two episodes either, or even three. And also

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Speaker 1: my thing that I was hoping to have to just

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Speaker 1: talk about, great somebody that opposed eugenics was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: and now we need to talk about anti semitism, and

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Speaker 1: also like the sexism part two that we referenced, the

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Speaker 1: humans are imperfect and complicated. But I did find it

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Speaker 1: a little annoying that the thing that I chose for myself,

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Speaker 1: specifically that I because I wanted some opposition to eugenics,

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Speaker 1: was also like, and we also have this other part gross. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: His writing about Jewish people reminded me of a very

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Speaker 1: recent event of a well known comic strip artist posting

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Speaker 1: or rant about black people and how white people should

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Speaker 1: stay away from them, and I'm like, this is the same,

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Speaker 1: It's just been shifted around to modern language, like why

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Speaker 1: why why does anybody go like, yeah, this is a

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Speaker 1: reasonable thing to say. I don't understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and the things that people have written that have tried

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Speaker 1: to defend H. G. K. Chesterton, Like, it really reminds

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Speaker 1: me of when someone will say something really racist and

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Speaker 1: defenders will be like, but look at this picture of

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Speaker 1: this person with a black person. It's like, that does

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Speaker 1: not erase the thing that he just said, right, So

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Speaker 1: I got very I got very frustrated with some of that,

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Speaker 1: with the attempts to just like not just minimize it,

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Speaker 1: but sort of pretend that it that it didn't matter

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Speaker 1: that like this, like being one of the first people

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Speaker 1: to really vocally condemn Adolf Hitler somehow undid a lot

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Speaker 1: of writing that was just inherently anti Semitic, and how

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Speaker 1: it talked about like Jewish people as a group. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I will reiterate the thing that I said in the

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Speaker 1: in the top of the episode about how we're not

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Speaker 1: going to armchair diagnose him. He reminded me though, the

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Speaker 1: parts of his story that we're about like learning to

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Speaker 1: speak and to read like later than a lot of

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Speaker 1: other children do, and also seeming to like have a

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Speaker 1: tendency to be disorganized and kind of a daydreamer. Like

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Speaker 1: all of these things reminded me of multiple people in

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Speaker 1: my life. Many of those multiple people have diagnoses of

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Speaker 1: some sort, and none of them are the same diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: And so that's one of the many reasons that I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I just don't I'm not comfortable with like an armchair

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Speaker 1: labeling of any of this because, among other things, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a psychiatris right well, And I mean, as we've

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Speaker 1: often said, like unless the person is here and you

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Speaker 1: can actually like do testing on them, you know, or

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Speaker 1: you know, run them through like various exercises, it would

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Speaker 1: help determine those things you're kind of stabbing in the dark.

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Speaker 1: And that also has the potential to be like damaging

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Speaker 1: to people who could take that information and self diagnosed

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Speaker 1: and like quiet to somebody else. So like just a

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Speaker 1: too too dangerous do you want to hear a silly thing? Yes,

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Speaker 1: every time we mentioned Hilaire Bellock, I think of Belloc

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Speaker 1: from Readers of the Lost Ark, which might just be

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Speaker 1: because I want to think of Paul Freeman because I

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Speaker 1: think he's very handsome, and Readers of the Lost Dark

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Speaker 1: is a little difficult for me. I love it, but

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Speaker 1: I'm like, but the bad guy is very appealing. He

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Speaker 1: is from that same you know, group of actors for

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Speaker 1: me as Vincent Casselle, where they could play like the

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Speaker 1: evilist men on Earth, and I'm like, yeah, but maybe

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Speaker 1: they're actually the one that you should starte with. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's my listen, I have Indie on the brain. We're

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Speaker 1: about to get a new indie movie this year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's all very exciting. But Paul Freeman is blazingly handsome

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Speaker 1: in Readers to me. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful blue ice.

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Speaker 1: All right, so you know, a little bit like a lizard.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you can't trust him. Very appealing, I don't understand it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that seems like a reasonable place to wrap up our

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Speaker 1: blind scenes. Whatever's happening on your weekend, I hope it's good,

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Speaker 1: And if it's not good, I hope you have a

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Speaker 1: moment to just recover. I know a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: have a lot of things going on right now. You

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Speaker 1: can send us a note if you would like. We're

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Speaker 1: a history piecasts at iHeartRadio dot com, and we will

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Speaker 1: be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow in a brand

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Speaker 1: new episode on Monday. Stuff You Missed in History Class

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Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.