1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, who joins us live 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 2: from Capitol Hill. 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Senator, it's great to have you back. 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: So here we are with our first economic contraction since 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: Are we already in a recession? 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 3: Well, some economists think we're already in a recession, and 9 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 3: the overwhelming majority say, if we're not already, we are 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 3: certainly sliding into one. The damage done by the chaos 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 3: around the Trump tariffs has really delivered a body blow 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 3: to our economy. And of course we've seen it in 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 3: the stock market, we've seen it in the bond market. 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 3: But look where we really are on this is that 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,319 Speaker 3: families are struggling and they're delivering that message. Remember how 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: Donald Trump won, He said he would lower costs on 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 3: day one, those were his words. On day one he 18 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 3: gets elected, he immediately says that is one of the 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 3: main reasons he won. We are one hundred days in, 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 3: and what has happened. The economy has shrunk and the 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 3: price and groceries is up for families all across this country. 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 3: That's a bad economic outlook. 23 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 4: Well, when we consider that outlook, then Senator knowing we 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 4: are a week away from the Federal Reserve's next rate decision, 25 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 4: if they choose not to cut next week, to wait 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 4: till June or July or even after that, would President 27 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 4: Trump be right that Chairman Power risks being too late. 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 3: The problem now is the crisis that Donald Trump has created. 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 3: Chairman Powell said as soon as Donald Trump started announcing 30 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 3: these red light green light tariffs that we were going 31 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: to have tariffs across the board on virtually every nation, 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 3: on virtually every product. That the consequence of that would 33 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 3: be to do two things. One is to drive up prices, 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 3: in other words, an increase in inflation, and two to 35 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: drive up unemployment. And you all know what that means. 36 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: That's stagflation, and it neuters the Fed's only tool, and 37 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 3: that is changing the interest rates, because if they increase 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 3: the interest traits, that will help push down inflation, but 39 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 3: it will drive up unemployment. And of course the reverse 40 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: is true. If they lower interest rates, they run the 41 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 3: risk of setting inflation a flame. At this point, so 42 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 3: Donald Trump has created a crisis, and now the tool 43 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 3: that the Fed would use becomes much less effective for 44 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: the FED to actually be able to use it. 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: This is Donald. 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 3: Trump's problem, and he has created it and now compounded it. 47 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 2: Well, we want to get to your reaction, Congressional reaction, 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: democratic reaction to the terif policies, Senator, because shortly after 49 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: this interview, you're going to force a vote that our 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 2: audience should know about. 51 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: Over the president's tariff authority. Here. 52 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: I know you have a couple of Republicans on board, 53 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: but this appears to. 54 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: Be going nowhere in the House, and I. 55 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: Wonder is there anything that Democrats can do beyond a 56 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: symbolic gesture to become a check on the president's policy here. 57 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 3: So let's just remember, just so everyone understands, why is 58 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: it that the President of the United States can wake 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: up in the morning and announce one tariff policy and 60 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 3: by mid afternoon being a second one, and by evening 61 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: be in a third one. It's all because there is 62 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 3: a statutory provision that says in an emergency, the president 63 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 3: can impose sanctions, but Congress can say, hey, there's no emergency. 64 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: So we get to roll that back. And that's what 65 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: Senator Widen and I have now proposed. This is the 66 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: bill that will be on the floor later today to 67 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: just roll back Donald Trump's authority to move in and 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 3: say tariff's up, tariff's down, exception for you, hire tariffs 69 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: for you over there. The significance of this is, look, 70 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 3: all the Democrats support it. That's not an issue. It's 71 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 3: really to put the Republicans on the record. You understand 72 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 3: what kind of damage this tariff red light green light 73 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 3: is creating. Republicans, so you have the opportunity right here 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: to take a stand and say we're actually going to 75 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 3: put some curves on what Donald Trump does. They can 76 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: vote for the resolution, or they can continue to say nope, 77 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 3: the only power in Washington is with Donald Trump. They 78 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 3: can bend a need to Donald Trump and say to 79 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: all Americans who are suffering because of higher prices than 80 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: a shrinking economy, and to all of the world that 81 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 3: says the United States is not a reliable trading partner. 82 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 3: We have the opportunity, if the Republicans will join us 83 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 3: to put some curves on Donald Trump and to reverse 84 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 3: the damage he's doing. We'll find out if the Republicans 85 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 3: are only here to take a mee to Donald Trump 86 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 3: or if they actually are willing to stand up for 87 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: the American people. 88 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 4: Well, last we spoke with you Senator, you argue that 89 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 4: it was not just about Republicans in Congress, but about 90 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 4: others in the Trump administration, including the Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, 91 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 4: who should be taking action here. We know that Besson 92 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 4: is testifying in the House Financial Services Committee next week. 93 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 4: Do you expect him to appear before the Banking Committee? 94 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 4: And what will he need to answer for if he 95 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 4: does so. 96 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: Look, Secretary Besson is going to have to explain he's 97 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 3: out here as the number one apologist for Donald Trump. 98 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 3: And some of the things I want to know from 99 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: Secretary Beson is what is he doing going in front 100 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 3: of a closed door group of well healed stock traders 101 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: and people who are active in the market and giving 102 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 3: advance information about where tariff policy is headed. I just 103 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 3: want to make sure that Secretary Besson understands he doesn't 104 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 3: just work for a handful of Wall Street investors and 105 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: how to make them Richard. He's actually here to work 106 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 3: for the American people and to provide stability in the 107 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: stock market. And part of that is to reassure people 108 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: that it is not corruption, that it is not a 109 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: rigged game. I'd like to hear from Secretary bessend about that, 110 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 3: and in fact, I've already sent him a letter about that, 111 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: but I'd like to get him in a hearing and 112 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 3: just be able to ask him a little more about that. 113 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: Sounds like you want to talk to Jeff Bezos as well, 114 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: and you did send a letter. Well, I do, but 115 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: to him this morning, Senator, you're calling on mister Bezos 116 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: to disclose information about his conversation with President Trump following 117 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: reports that Amazon was going to itemize the cost of 118 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: tariffs on products for consumers. Of course, Amazon is not 119 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: doing that. The White House called that idea of hostile 120 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: and political So here we are, Senators, should publicly traded 121 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: companies in the United States assume that Donald Trump is 122 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: the de facto chairman of their boards. 123 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 3: Like the way you have put it, that certainly is 124 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: how he wants to behave. But listen to that underlying message. 125 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 3: What Donald Trump is saying is if the American people 126 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 3: can see clearly what his tariffs are costing them, that 127 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: creates a real problem for Donald Trump and for the 128 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: Republicans in Congress. So his solution is not to do 129 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 3: something more sensible on tariffs. His solution is to try 130 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: to end access to the information and to persuade Jeff 131 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 3: Bezos that he needs to erase that information. And yes, 132 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: I want to hear about that conversation. In fact, I 133 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: want to hear about all of the conversations that Donald 134 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: Trump has with his million dollar donors and what it 135 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 3: is he is both promising and threatening as he tries 136 00:07:55,160 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: to create even more chaos and corruption in our economy. 137 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 4: Senator, I'd like to ask you about something else. As 138 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 4: he's working on making deals with trading partners, or at 139 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 4: least his administration is, they're also working on a deal 140 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 4: with Ukraine, suggesting a minerals deal specifically, could be signed 141 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 4: as early as this afternoon if Ukraine is willing. Should 142 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 4: that be taking the form of a formal treaty? Should 143 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 4: the Senate have a chance to weigh in on that? 144 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 3: Yes, the Senate should have an opportunity to weigh in. Look, 145 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: the Senate has and the House long supported Ukraine. It's 146 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: Donald Trump who has persuaded a handful of extremists that 147 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 3: somehow this country needs to be on the side of 148 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 3: the aggressor, on the side of Russia. That is fundamentally wrong. 149 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 3: The Ukrainians are fighting on the front lines for democracy 150 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 3: and understand this. If Vladimir Putin can get away with 151 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 3: an invasion of Ukraine, it's not like he will be 152 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 3: full and he will stop there. He's going to continue 153 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 3: to come after more and more of his neighbors. That 154 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: is a threat to all of Europe, but it is 155 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 3: also ultimately a threat to the United States of America. 156 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 3: I know that Donald Trump seems to have some kind 157 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 3: of love relationship with Vladimir Putin, although lately they seem 158 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 3: to have had a spat. But at the end of 159 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: the day, the interests of the United States are with 160 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 3: Europe and with Ukraine. We need to be once again 161 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: a dependable ally. That's what matters most. 162 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 4: All right, Senator, we know you have that vote to 163 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 4: get to you that we were just discussing, but we 164 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 4: appreciate you joining us. Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts, 165 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 4: the rnging member of the Banking Committee. We appreciate your time.