WEBVTT - Joe Jackson

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Joe Jackson is an enigma. He showed up in

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<v Speaker 1>seventy eight seventy nine on the UK's new wave scene,

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<v Speaker 1>all nervous energy and biting wit with hits like is

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<v Speaker 1>she really going out with him, putting him in the

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<v Speaker 1>same conversation as Elvis Costello and Squeeze. But where a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of his peers stayed in that lane, Jackson kept

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<v Speaker 1>moving into the jump blue swing of Jump and Jive,

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<v Speaker 1>into the sophisticated, Latin tinged jazz sounds on night and day,

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<v Speaker 1>into classical composition, into a music hall concept album under

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<v Speaker 1>an alter ego named Max Champion, and so much more.

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<v Speaker 1>He's rarely made the same record twice, and that restlessness

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<v Speaker 1>has probably cost him the kind of mainstream consistency that

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<v Speaker 1>turns an artist into a household name. But I can't

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<v Speaker 1>help but love the boldness of his approach, even if

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<v Speaker 1>it's made him, over the course of his career, a

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<v Speaker 1>little unknowable to fans. I was hoping by the end

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<v Speaker 1>of a conversation he might be a little more knowable,

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't know if that really happened, but I

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<v Speaker 1>do think I have a bit of a better sense

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<v Speaker 1>as to why He's maintained a sense of mystery throughout

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<v Speaker 1>his career, and really, I think it's because he just

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't take himself all that seriously. On today's episode, I

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<v Speaker 1>speak with Joe Jackson about his new studio album, Hope

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<v Speaker 1>and Fury and dig into some of the songwriting on

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<v Speaker 1>it and some of his older albums. Plus, we discussed

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<v Speaker 1>Joe's collaboration with his longtime, criminally underrated bass player Graham Maybe,

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<v Speaker 1>and get into what makes comedy an important part of

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<v Speaker 1>Joe's artistic sensibility. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's my interview with Joe Jackson from Amazon Music Studio

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<v Speaker 1>one twenty six grow Back.

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<v Speaker 2>I forgot we did this question.

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<v Speaker 1>This is pretty cool, amazing.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't ask you want to think of you and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not give the answer.

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<v Speaker 4>That you want.

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<v Speaker 5>Mazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, I've got this girl. Huh.

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<v Speaker 1>Such a great writ I don't even want to turn

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<v Speaker 1>it off.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me kurd light upould do it. I think he's thinking.

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<v Speaker 6>And we're not talking to God.

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<v Speaker 3>A little stay sister, find me to be your guy.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't ask you want to think of you and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not give the answer that you want me.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, I'll want to break it out. You gotta

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<v Speaker 5>do it, it's all. Yeah, damn, it's weird. It's weird

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<v Speaker 5>that you it's kind of strange that you picked that

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<v Speaker 5>one that you did that.

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<v Speaker 2>I always thought it could have been written about me,

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<v Speaker 2>because like, I can't sing, I ain't pretty, and my

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<v Speaker 2>legs are thin, so you know that fits. Yeah, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>completely forgotten we did the version of that. Actually it's

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<v Speaker 2>but it sort of has this Afro Cuban vibe going

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<v Speaker 2>through it. So, I mean, if I ever do a

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<v Speaker 2>cover version of something, it's because I can see a

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<v Speaker 2>way to do it it's different to the original version. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't see any point in that.

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<v Speaker 1>So you see, you definitely sense a way to do

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<v Speaker 1>it different, But there's also probably something about it you

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<v Speaker 1>sense that must feel familiar in some way or feel

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<v Speaker 1>like it it fits also.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I suppose. So yeah, it's more about you know,

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<v Speaker 2>can I see a different way to do it that's interesting?

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<v Speaker 2>And can I can I sing it and actually capable

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<v Speaker 2>of singing it? I mean that was hard to sing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, did you know that song from uh from one

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<v Speaker 1>of First Way Back?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I mean it wasn't something that's Uh, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't I don't know. It's just I guess maybe

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<v Speaker 2>I heard it on a radio somewhere or something and

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<v Speaker 2>thought I could see a way.

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<v Speaker 1>To do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't remember. Now. It's kind of like a

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<v Speaker 2>last Fleetwood Mac classic, you know. Yeah, I mean it's

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<v Speaker 2>not what you think of when you think of Fleetwood makes.

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<v Speaker 1>No not for a long time. It hasn't wrote. But

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Green, who wrote that, was the you know, leading

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<v Speaker 1>the band at the time. He did have a I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Maybe I'm just spacing this based on

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<v Speaker 1>Santana taking or doing or a Black Magic Woman. Oh

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<v Speaker 1>oh right, yeah, I was gonna say, oh, come on

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<v Speaker 1>by t by doing Black Magic Woman, which you wrote.

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<v Speaker 1>But I would feel like he had a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a Latin flair.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Something. No, No, okay, you certainly do.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I'm a Latin music not Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>When did that start?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm telling you exactly because I was in London in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy eight something like that. It was around the

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<v Speaker 2>time that I recorded my first album, Yeah, and I

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<v Speaker 2>went into a second hand record shop. I saw this

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<v Speaker 2>speed up LP. It was called Salsa Live by the

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<v Speaker 2>Fania All stars, and I was intrigued by it because

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<v Speaker 2>the cover art was a painting of Latin musicians standing

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<v Speaker 2>on the platform in the New York subway. And this

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<v Speaker 2>was in the seventies, and all the trains are covered

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<v Speaker 2>in graffiti and stuff, and they looked like gangsters, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with their instrument cases and like big broad brimmed hats

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff. And I thought, this looks really cool, and

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<v Speaker 2>I took it home, listened to it, and I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>make sense of it. I couldn't understand the rhythms. They

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<v Speaker 2>were alien to me. I was so fascinated by it.

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<v Speaker 2>I started reaching out to everyone I knew in London,

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<v Speaker 2>all the musicians I knew in London, Does anyone know

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<v Speaker 2>any Latin percussionists, any Latin musicians who can kind of

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<v Speaker 2>teach me about this music. And managed to find a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of people, and that's where it started. And then

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<v Speaker 2>when I got to New York, one of the things

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<v Speaker 2>that I was most interested in was the Latin music scene.

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<v Speaker 2>And so, you know, the first tours I ever did

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<v Speaker 2>in the US, we would always be sort of based

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<v Speaker 2>in New York and we would have days off, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like the early eighties and I would be going to

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<v Speaker 2>Latin gigs wow, and most of my band and crew

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to go to CBGB's you know, which is

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<v Speaker 2>great too, right, And they didn't get it at all.

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<v Speaker 2>They thought it was crazy. But it was an amazing

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<v Speaker 2>time for Latin music in New York. It was such

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<v Speaker 2>a vibrant scene. I just loved it.

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<v Speaker 1>Where would you go at that time for Latin music?

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<v Speaker 2>If you remember, there was I mean I would go

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<v Speaker 2>to places like the Corso Latin Bore Room one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty fifth Street. And then there was a thing

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<v Speaker 2>called Salsa meets Jazz Monday Nights at the Village Gate

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<v Speaker 2>in Greenwich Village, which was amazing. They would have a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of the top Latin bands in the city and

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<v Speaker 2>then they would have guest jazz soloists playing with them,

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<v Speaker 2>people like Stanley Turrentine and nat Adalie and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like really great players. That was incredible. I went every week.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why I loved it. I never heard those guys

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<v Speaker 1>do anything Latin. And you know, I can recall you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's pretty yeah, yeah, pretty think of him as being

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<v Speaker 1>pretty smooth in terms of pretty soulful player.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, but there would also be people like

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<v Speaker 2>Pachito de Rivera, who's both Latin and a great jazz player,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. Yea, But I saw so many great artists there.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean everyone who was Ray Bareto was my favorite.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw so many gigs. Barretto always had the greatest band.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so exciting. Yeah, I couldn't understand why my

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<v Speaker 2>peers were not into this music. Yeah, was anyway?

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<v Speaker 1>Was there ever? I'm trying to. I mean, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't really come around in popular music until like

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<v Speaker 1>Miami Sound Machine or something.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, probably you got a bit of it with Santana,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, But yeah, whose brother actually not a thing

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<v Speaker 2>about Yes, brother was in a band that I think

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<v Speaker 2>was signed of Fanya. Uh his brother was I think

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<v Speaker 2>in that group, uh Mallow or something, And I think

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<v Speaker 2>I think they were signed to Find You. But they

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<v Speaker 2>were like more they were kind of like Santana, but

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<v Speaker 2>even more like kind of more down the Latin.

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<v Speaker 1>Rock niche than even Santana was. You know, But nothing

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<v Speaker 1>from but find You didn't seem to really get too

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<v Speaker 1>much traction in mainstream music, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean, uh, yeah, if if you see mainstream

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<v Speaker 2>as being Anglo American pop rock, which was most people did.

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<v Speaker 1>But it is, but I don't know what it is.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean, you know, when I first started living

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<v Speaker 2>in New York in the eighties, I was going to

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<v Speaker 2>Latin gigs and jazz gigs all the time, and that,

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<v Speaker 2>to me was the sound of New York, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>to me it was it was a Latin and jazz

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<v Speaker 2>town rather than a pop rock town.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So that that's that was very much what fed into

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<v Speaker 2>my album Night and Day, which I thought no one

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<v Speaker 2>was going to like. Yeah, but it.

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<v Speaker 1>Was a huge departure from the first three albums.

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<v Speaker 2>That's one of the reasons I thought no one wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>like it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's looking in hindsight, it was a it was

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<v Speaker 1>a quick you made that detour rap quick. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the fourth album, but it's only three years later,

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty one.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess that album, Yeah, but years were years back then.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell me about that, Well, they lasted a lot longer

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<v Speaker 2>than they do now, you know, I mean distance between

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<v Speaker 2>your third, first, and third and fourth albums. Yeah, looking back,

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<v Speaker 2>it was just a few years. But at the time

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't seem like, oh, it's you know, we made

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<v Speaker 2>an album last week. Let's make another one this week.

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<v Speaker 2>It didn't feel like that at the time. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>yet that's what you were doing. I mean the first

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<v Speaker 2>two albums, well just came out in the same Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah recorded months of I mean fun we recorded in

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<v Speaker 2>the summer of seventy eight and it came out in

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<v Speaker 2>January seventy nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>From the second one, I can't remember when were recorded,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think it came out in September seventy nine. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, I mean who puts that two albums a year?

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<v Speaker 2>The Beatles and the Beatles did yeah, you know, well

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<v Speaker 2>back then people did.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Was there a reason you did? Like, was there?

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<v Speaker 2>No? It was just like, let's I weren't really thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about that much. I just had enough songs for another

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<v Speaker 2>album and everyone seemed to want to do it. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>What was what was your relationship with A and M?

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<v Speaker 1>Like at that time it was pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, yeah, when they were a pretty good,

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good label at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean they had a lot of great people

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<v Speaker 2>and it was a really different era when the record

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<v Speaker 2>company made a difference.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it's also like it was that A and

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<v Speaker 1>M was you know, it's like KRB Albert and Jerry Moss,

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<v Speaker 1>that's the those are the founders. That's the A and

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<v Speaker 1>M in it. And then you know, and it's a

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<v Speaker 1>it's a substantial label, you know, And I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>it was an independent and yet it wasn't independent, but

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<v Speaker 1>because those guys were such record you know, record industry guys,

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<v Speaker 1>but they were also musicians, but there were also originally

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<v Speaker 1>did you meet them ever?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>What were they like?

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<v Speaker 2>Jerry must seemed like a pretty cool guy. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>I met him a few times. Herb I only met

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<v Speaker 2>once or once or twice I think, and it just

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<v Speaker 2>seemed like incredibly laid back. Yeah. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 2>much they had to do with with my career, to

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<v Speaker 2>be honest, I don't think they were the people most involved.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting that also you were Courted the first

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<v Speaker 1>album before The Police is for I mean the Police

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<v Speaker 1>were label mates, yes, and their first album came out

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<v Speaker 1>after it. Court is your first album. It came out

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<v Speaker 1>before I thought it was.

0:12:22.476 --> 0:12:23.996
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember, well, it.

0:12:23.996 --> 0:12:26.036
<v Speaker 1>Came out before yours came out, but you recorded yours

0:12:26.076 --> 0:12:29.276
<v Speaker 1>before it came out, and which is interesting just because

0:12:29.316 --> 0:12:31.436
<v Speaker 1>it feels like they were sort of the.

0:12:33.396 --> 0:12:35.836
<v Speaker 2>You know more about this than me, I'll just shut

0:12:35.916 --> 0:12:36.156
<v Speaker 2>up and.

0:12:36.356 --> 0:12:41.596
<v Speaker 1>You tell it like it is, I'll do about your career.

0:12:42.396 --> 0:12:45.476
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I did not know that, but yeah, we were

0:12:45.516 --> 0:12:47.796
<v Speaker 2>contemporaries and Squeeze as well. It was the other band

0:12:47.836 --> 0:12:53.596
<v Speaker 2>that we're like. But like I said, time was was

0:12:53.676 --> 0:12:58.276
<v Speaker 2>so much bigger than you know, the fact that someone's

0:12:58.556 --> 0:13:01.356
<v Speaker 2>first album came out six months before or after mine

0:13:01.636 --> 0:13:03.876
<v Speaker 2>might have seemed quite significant at the time. Yeah, it

0:13:03.996 --> 0:13:04.876
<v Speaker 2>certainly doesn't, you know.

0:13:05.156 --> 0:13:06.556
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I guess where I was going with the Police

0:13:06.556 --> 0:13:10.676
<v Speaker 1>comment was and kind of I think most people's popular imaginations,

0:13:10.796 --> 0:13:13.276
<v Speaker 1>like it felt like they were the Police were sort

0:13:13.276 --> 0:13:16.516
<v Speaker 1>of the lead off to I'm sure it was happening already.

0:13:16.556 --> 0:13:20.036
<v Speaker 1>You know, there was Madness and all those other groups

0:13:20.236 --> 0:13:23.276
<v Speaker 1>that were sort of SKA tinged at the time.

0:13:23.396 --> 0:13:25.156
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think their first time came out the same

0:13:25.396 --> 0:13:27.636
<v Speaker 2>year as mine. I think Madness and the Specials.

0:13:27.676 --> 0:13:30.996
<v Speaker 1>I think the special Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But in

0:13:31.116 --> 0:13:33.556
<v Speaker 1>terms of in terms of I guess going back to

0:13:33.596 --> 0:13:35.316
<v Speaker 1>popular music, I felt like the Police were sort of

0:13:35.396 --> 0:13:39.636
<v Speaker 1>like the ones that sort of broke it that out

0:13:39.676 --> 0:13:43.476
<v Speaker 1>of being local to whatever was happening. In the UK

0:13:43.876 --> 0:13:47.076
<v Speaker 1>and made it feel worldwide, made it feel global or

0:13:47.076 --> 0:13:51.836
<v Speaker 1>at least transcontinental. But it must have been, like you know, obviously,

0:13:51.876 --> 0:13:53.836
<v Speaker 1>if you've recorded your first album before that came out,

0:13:53.876 --> 0:13:57.396
<v Speaker 1>that was a thing that was brewing, right, that sort

0:13:57.436 --> 0:13:59.236
<v Speaker 1>of SKA new wave.

0:14:00.556 --> 0:14:04.956
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, I think, like anyone else, I was

0:14:05.036 --> 0:14:07.276
<v Speaker 2>influenced by what was going on around me. And I

0:14:07.436 --> 0:14:10.636
<v Speaker 2>was in a certain place at a certain time, and

0:14:10.796 --> 0:14:13.756
<v Speaker 2>I was, you know, twenty three years old. And even

0:14:13.796 --> 0:14:16.276
<v Speaker 2>though I wanted to think that I was just being

0:14:16.316 --> 0:14:18.676
<v Speaker 2>original and I wasn't part of a movement or you

0:14:18.756 --> 0:14:21.996
<v Speaker 2>know that sort of stuff. You know, I think, yeah,

0:14:22.036 --> 0:14:24.036
<v Speaker 2>I was very influenced by everything that was going on

0:14:24.076 --> 0:14:26.276
<v Speaker 2>around me. And if I listened to my first album now,

0:14:27.196 --> 0:14:29.196
<v Speaker 2>but not that I do, to be honest, but it

0:14:29.436 --> 0:14:33.116
<v Speaker 2>just really sounds like London in nineteen seventy eight. You know,

0:14:33.876 --> 0:14:37.716
<v Speaker 2>It's very much of its time and place, and I

0:14:37.796 --> 0:14:38.996
<v Speaker 2>think you can't avoid that.

0:14:40.036 --> 0:14:41.756
<v Speaker 1>But that wasn't the intention, you did, want to know,

0:14:41.956 --> 0:14:42.916
<v Speaker 1>I mean, apart from.

0:14:42.836 --> 0:14:45.876
<v Speaker 2>Her, Yeah, I felt like this is my thing and

0:14:45.916 --> 0:14:47.916
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be compared to anyone else, and

0:14:49.476 --> 0:14:53.796
<v Speaker 2>you know, and I would do interviews in Spain or somewhere,

0:14:53.796 --> 0:14:55.716
<v Speaker 2>and they'd say, so are you part of the new wave?

0:14:55.916 --> 0:14:57.796
<v Speaker 2>And I'd say, what are you talking about? I don't

0:14:57.836 --> 0:14:58.836
<v Speaker 2>even know what you're talking about.

0:14:59.396 --> 0:15:04.836
<v Speaker 1>You know, that term was particularly triggering for a lot

0:15:04.876 --> 0:15:06.236
<v Speaker 1>of artists, I think, you know.

0:15:06.356 --> 0:15:08.556
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's just like, you know, you don't want

0:15:08.556 --> 0:15:11.276
<v Speaker 2>to feel like you just part of the cults, you know,

0:15:11.356 --> 0:15:14.516
<v Speaker 2>ideology or something. You know, we all want to feel

0:15:14.556 --> 0:15:15.956
<v Speaker 2>like we're brilliant originals.

0:15:16.396 --> 0:15:18.716
<v Speaker 1>What was playing live like at that time? Was there?

0:15:19.556 --> 0:15:21.116
<v Speaker 1>Who were you? Who would you have been playing with

0:15:21.276 --> 0:15:24.636
<v Speaker 1>at that time, pre pre getting signed, pre your album?

0:15:24.676 --> 0:15:27.436
<v Speaker 1>Were you playing out, playing live, working out those songs?

0:15:29.436 --> 0:15:34.476
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, only a couple of pub gigs. I didn't

0:15:34.516 --> 0:15:37.316
<v Speaker 2>have a regular band until I got the record deal

0:15:37.596 --> 0:15:42.876
<v Speaker 2>because I couldn't afford to pay them. So there's basically

0:15:42.996 --> 0:15:45.756
<v Speaker 2>the band that I made my demos with. You know,

0:15:45.916 --> 0:15:48.196
<v Speaker 2>I called them up and said, hey, do you want

0:15:48.236 --> 0:15:51.436
<v Speaker 2>to quit your whatever your job is and go on

0:15:51.516 --> 0:15:53.996
<v Speaker 2>the road and we can just about afford to pay

0:15:54.356 --> 0:15:56.716
<v Speaker 2>a living wage. So before that I was just doing

0:15:56.756 --> 0:15:59.836
<v Speaker 2>any kind of gig I could get, and not with

0:15:59.996 --> 0:16:03.196
<v Speaker 2>your not with the band, doing all kinds of stuff,

0:16:03.396 --> 0:16:07.196
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I played in the Playboy Club and

0:16:08.036 --> 0:16:10.476
<v Speaker 2>I played for a cabaret a duo called Coffee and

0:16:10.556 --> 0:16:14.716
<v Speaker 2>Cream when I really cheesy. I did that for six

0:16:14.796 --> 0:16:17.436
<v Speaker 2>months to save up money, you know. That's how I

0:16:17.516 --> 0:16:20.516
<v Speaker 2>saved up money to make the demos that became my

0:16:20.596 --> 0:16:21.156
<v Speaker 2>first album.

0:16:21.276 --> 0:16:22.676
<v Speaker 1>Wait, were you in Coffee and Cream?

0:16:22.876 --> 0:16:27.036
<v Speaker 2>I was the piano player. Don't shoot me. I'm only

0:16:27.076 --> 0:16:31.876
<v Speaker 2>the piano player. Yeah, it was my choice, but I

0:16:31.916 --> 0:16:34.716
<v Speaker 2>would just do anything, you know. Before that, I was

0:16:34.756 --> 0:16:38.956
<v Speaker 2>in top forty cover bands and playing weddings and playing

0:16:38.996 --> 0:16:44.156
<v Speaker 2>in restaurants and playing jazz gigs. Just I mean, it's

0:16:44.196 --> 0:16:47.156
<v Speaker 2>really weird to think back to when I made my

0:16:47.196 --> 0:16:49.996
<v Speaker 2>first album. I was only twenty three, and I felt

0:16:50.076 --> 0:16:52.916
<v Speaker 2>like a veteran at that point. I mean, I did

0:16:52.996 --> 0:16:56.076
<v Speaker 2>my first paying gig when I was sixteen, you know,

0:16:56.196 --> 0:16:58.756
<v Speaker 2>so I was doing all kinds of gigs and I

0:16:58.836 --> 0:17:04.036
<v Speaker 2>felt like sort of culmination of this long journey making

0:17:04.076 --> 0:17:04.556
<v Speaker 2>an album.

0:17:04.916 --> 0:17:09.756
<v Speaker 1>I was twenty three, sixteen or twenty three. It's it's

0:17:09.996 --> 0:17:11.076
<v Speaker 1>it's substantial.

0:17:11.796 --> 0:17:13.836
<v Speaker 2>Well again, when you're not age, it really is substantial.

0:17:13.916 --> 0:17:17.836
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, super substantial. What was your like, what was your

0:17:18.196 --> 0:17:21.116
<v Speaker 1>so if you're playing popular music at the time that

0:17:21.196 --> 0:17:22.676
<v Speaker 1>what was your repertoire pre.

0:17:22.796 --> 0:17:25.356
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well you know what whatever was in the charts,

0:17:25.516 --> 0:17:28.276
<v Speaker 2>and just depending what kind of band it.

0:17:28.436 --> 0:17:32.236
<v Speaker 1>Was, remember certain songs you would loath to have.

0:17:36.436 --> 0:17:39.996
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't crazy about the Neil Diamond medley we did

0:17:40.036 --> 0:17:45.676
<v Speaker 2>with Coffee and Cream. But you know, I don't think

0:17:45.716 --> 0:17:48.356
<v Speaker 2>it's it's a bad thing to use the skills you

0:17:48.436 --> 0:17:51.716
<v Speaker 2>have to make money, No, and also you get it.

0:17:51.996 --> 0:17:56.276
<v Speaker 2>It's all experienced whatever you do, and and I think

0:17:56.356 --> 0:17:59.836
<v Speaker 2>it it's a good groundwork. I think people don't have

0:17:59.916 --> 0:18:02.476
<v Speaker 2>it so much anymore. But but you know, when you've

0:18:02.516 --> 0:18:05.436
<v Speaker 2>gone on stage and had glasses thrown at you, buy

0:18:05.716 --> 0:18:09.316
<v Speaker 2>an audience of skin heads and things like that, you know,

0:18:09.356 --> 0:18:12.556
<v Speaker 2>it does kind of toughen you up a bit, prepare

0:18:12.596 --> 0:18:16.116
<v Speaker 2>you for the long haul. And yeah, so I said

0:18:16.156 --> 0:18:18.476
<v Speaker 2>to me, it sounds like they're seen in the Blues

0:18:18.516 --> 0:18:20.796
<v Speaker 2>Brothers where they have to have chicken wire in front

0:18:20.836 --> 0:18:23.636
<v Speaker 2>of the bed and they said, we longed for chicken wire,

0:18:26.436 --> 0:18:27.156
<v Speaker 2>if only.

0:18:27.396 --> 0:18:30.276
<v Speaker 1>There would have been an improvement. Yeah, what records were

0:18:30.316 --> 0:18:34.036
<v Speaker 1>you listening to then? Formative Views that's sixteen to twenty

0:18:34.076 --> 0:18:35.036
<v Speaker 1>three making the first album.

0:18:35.516 --> 0:18:42.236
<v Speaker 2>What were you ingesting? Let me think, David Bowie Stevie Wonder,

0:18:43.356 --> 0:18:48.716
<v Speaker 2>Joni Mitchell, Steely, Dan Little Feet, and I mean for

0:18:48.796 --> 0:18:51.716
<v Speaker 2>a while, when I was like sixteen seventeen, I was

0:18:51.796 --> 0:18:54.476
<v Speaker 2>into prog rock and I liked A Soft Machine was

0:18:54.516 --> 0:18:57.516
<v Speaker 2>a favorite band, and anything kind of jazzy I liked

0:18:57.556 --> 0:19:01.836
<v Speaker 2>as well, King Crimson and people like that. A lot

0:19:01.876 --> 0:19:03.436
<v Speaker 2>of that stuff I don't really like now, not to

0:19:03.516 --> 0:19:07.396
<v Speaker 2>be honest, but and reggae music. Bob Marley, you know

0:19:07.956 --> 0:19:10.196
<v Speaker 2>in the late seventies that came that was huge in

0:19:10.276 --> 0:19:12.236
<v Speaker 2>England at the time, all that music, So I got

0:19:12.316 --> 0:19:12.876
<v Speaker 2>really into that.

0:19:13.156 --> 0:19:14.876
<v Speaker 1>Was it like Clapton doing it that got it huge

0:19:14.916 --> 0:19:17.196
<v Speaker 1>out there or was it legitimo was it already it

0:19:17.316 --> 0:19:17.876
<v Speaker 1>was huge?

0:19:17.916 --> 0:19:22.276
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Bob Marty really broke broke through. And there was

0:19:22.316 --> 0:19:25.156
<v Speaker 2>that Bob Marley Live album, which is a great live album.

0:19:25.196 --> 0:19:27.716
<v Speaker 2>I think that that was a big hit. Suddenly it

0:19:27.876 --> 0:19:30.876
<v Speaker 2>was all over the radio and it was It's just huge,

0:19:30.916 --> 0:19:34.756
<v Speaker 2>and then everyone was, you know, every record company was

0:19:34.756 --> 0:19:36.316
<v Speaker 2>signing reggae artists all of a sudden.

0:19:37.276 --> 0:19:41.716
<v Speaker 1>And did you did you notice other people? Were you

0:19:41.876 --> 0:19:44.396
<v Speaker 1>aware of the of the other like the Madness and

0:19:44.836 --> 0:19:48.396
<v Speaker 1>all those other sky bands that were sort of cropping

0:19:48.436 --> 0:19:49.116
<v Speaker 1>up around.

0:19:49.116 --> 0:19:52.396
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah. I remember going to see one of the

0:19:52.476 --> 0:19:55.236
<v Speaker 2>Specialist first gigs in a pub in London was fantastic.

0:19:55.436 --> 0:19:59.196
<v Speaker 2>It was packed. I remember saying to my friend, was with,

0:19:59.356 --> 0:20:00.916
<v Speaker 2>these guys are going to be huge any they know

0:20:00.996 --> 0:20:04.316
<v Speaker 2>which they were, you know, But Madness is a band

0:20:04.356 --> 0:20:07.476
<v Speaker 2>that have really had longevity, and I think they're underrated actually.

0:20:08.116 --> 0:20:10.516
<v Speaker 2>I mean they're very very popular in England especially, but

0:20:11.476 --> 0:20:15.156
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, there's there's a real depth of

0:20:15.876 --> 0:20:19.876
<v Speaker 2>songwriting and musicianship there actually in some of their later stuff. Yeah, yeah,

0:20:20.396 --> 0:20:20.916
<v Speaker 2>I'm a fan.

0:20:21.476 --> 0:20:23.156
<v Speaker 1>There is on your first few records too, and I

0:20:23.236 --> 0:20:26.676
<v Speaker 1>feel like you maybe, I think I read that on

0:20:26.796 --> 0:20:29.556
<v Speaker 1>your first few records you sort of embarrassed with the

0:20:29.636 --> 0:20:30.876
<v Speaker 1>songs to a certain degree.

0:20:32.476 --> 0:20:35.076
<v Speaker 2>What now I am? Now, Yeah, I mean some of

0:20:35.116 --> 0:20:37.636
<v Speaker 2>those songs are pretty silly and pretty immature, I think,

0:20:37.676 --> 0:20:39.436
<v Speaker 2>but that's you know, of course, that's what you get

0:20:39.476 --> 0:20:43.876
<v Speaker 2>when you're twenty three. Some of the songs I still

0:20:44.036 --> 0:20:49.516
<v Speaker 2>like can still play kind of cliche sort of just

0:20:49.836 --> 0:20:52.156
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I became over the years as a writer

0:20:52.356 --> 0:20:55.396
<v Speaker 2>much more particular about what I put out and much

0:20:55.476 --> 0:20:57.716
<v Speaker 2>more critical of myself. It used to be like, well,

0:20:57.716 --> 0:20:59.196
<v Speaker 2>I got an idea sort of knock it into some

0:20:59.316 --> 0:21:00.636
<v Speaker 2>sort of shape recording, and that was it.

0:21:01.596 --> 0:21:01.756
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:21:02.236 --> 0:21:04.556
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really think about it much. And there's a

0:21:04.556 --> 0:21:06.916
<v Speaker 2>good side to that as well. But if you're going

0:21:06.956 --> 0:21:10.196
<v Speaker 2>to keep going for decades, which I somehow managed to do,

0:21:10.956 --> 0:21:14.356
<v Speaker 2>that's wasn't good enough for me in a way. I mean, nowadays,

0:21:14.436 --> 0:21:17.276
<v Speaker 2>I'm my own worst critic. If I start working on

0:21:17.396 --> 0:21:21.276
<v Speaker 2>something that starts to remind me of something I've heard before,

0:21:22.636 --> 0:21:25.076
<v Speaker 2>you know, whether it's someone else's or mine, then it's

0:21:26.116 --> 0:21:29.956
<v Speaker 2>scrap it, you know, start again, or twist it in

0:21:30.076 --> 0:21:32.916
<v Speaker 2>some way. I read somewhere that when Bruce Springsteen released

0:21:32.916 --> 0:21:35.756
<v Speaker 2>a Born in the USA album that he had sixty

0:21:35.876 --> 0:21:38.476
<v Speaker 2>songs and it was a really difficult job to narrow

0:21:38.556 --> 0:21:41.236
<v Speaker 2>it down to whatever it is, ten or whatever twelve

0:21:41.476 --> 0:21:45.036
<v Speaker 2>on the album. I thought, my god, I can imagine

0:21:45.076 --> 0:21:48.636
<v Speaker 2>being in that situation, having that many songs and finding

0:21:48.676 --> 0:21:52.596
<v Speaker 2>it that hard to I mean, my latest album has

0:21:52.836 --> 0:21:55.116
<v Speaker 2>the nine songs that's it, but.

0:21:55.196 --> 0:21:56.836
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like there could have been many.

0:21:57.036 --> 0:21:59.916
<v Speaker 2>But there was a lot of other like you know,

0:22:01.556 --> 0:22:05.316
<v Speaker 2>was going down streets that turned out to be couldest

0:22:05.356 --> 0:22:08.836
<v Speaker 2>acts you know, along the way. So half Wreckage of

0:22:09.236 --> 0:22:11.436
<v Speaker 2>finished songs by the roadside along the way.

0:22:11.956 --> 0:22:14.556
<v Speaker 1>Do you ever revive a bad idea in the end.

0:22:15.556 --> 0:22:17.796
<v Speaker 1>Do you ever feel like you've okay, maybe I've fown

0:22:17.836 --> 0:22:19.276
<v Speaker 1>that way too soon, or coming back to it and

0:22:19.396 --> 0:22:21.836
<v Speaker 1>it ends up actually working out.

0:22:21.956 --> 0:22:24.236
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and the opposite. You know, something I'm really

0:22:24.276 --> 0:22:27.116
<v Speaker 2>excited about. This is a great song, and you know,

0:22:27.236 --> 0:22:28.396
<v Speaker 2>I sort of live with it for a while and

0:22:28.476 --> 0:22:33.316
<v Speaker 2>think nah, nah, and I might Actually, I mean, I've

0:22:33.396 --> 0:22:36.116
<v Speaker 2>done things like scrap the whole lyric of a song

0:22:37.196 --> 0:22:39.316
<v Speaker 2>and just put it aside, and then get an idea

0:22:39.356 --> 0:22:42.716
<v Speaker 2>and start again with a different lyric. Finally it's a song.

0:22:42.796 --> 0:22:45.236
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's no real sort of pattern to any

0:22:45.276 --> 0:22:46.516
<v Speaker 2>of it. Actually, how hard is that?

0:22:46.556 --> 0:22:48.956
<v Speaker 1>Because I mean, you might, even if it's a bad lyric,

0:22:49.036 --> 0:22:52.396
<v Speaker 1>you must, at some point, on some level muscle memory,

0:22:52.436 --> 0:22:54.356
<v Speaker 1>even just at the muscle memory level, get.

0:22:54.636 --> 0:22:57.276
<v Speaker 2>Set on the lyric even if it's bad, you know, yeah,

0:22:58.236 --> 0:23:02.116
<v Speaker 2>but there'd be something about it that, you know, over time,

0:23:02.196 --> 0:23:05.556
<v Speaker 2>I figure out what it is that's bothering me and

0:23:06.356 --> 0:23:08.996
<v Speaker 2>why it's not good enough. You know, it's very hard

0:23:08.996 --> 0:23:11.956
<v Speaker 2>to explain because it's not scientific. It's not you know,

0:23:12.036 --> 0:23:15.796
<v Speaker 2>it's not an exact science, it's very much. I mean,

0:23:15.836 --> 0:23:17.956
<v Speaker 2>I've been asked to you right from the head or

0:23:17.996 --> 0:23:21.956
<v Speaker 2>from the heart, and it's neither. It's something else, and

0:23:22.036 --> 0:23:26.476
<v Speaker 2>it's something like intuition. It's intuitive. So it's like a

0:23:26.716 --> 0:23:30.356
<v Speaker 2>question of taste as well, you know, And so you

0:23:31.116 --> 0:23:33.036
<v Speaker 2>can only rely on your own taste and your own

0:23:33.156 --> 0:23:36.476
<v Speaker 2>intuition because you're the artist. That's what you're supposed to do. Yeah.

0:23:37.316 --> 0:23:39.836
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And you feel like you must feel then, like

0:23:39.916 --> 0:23:41.156
<v Speaker 1>your taste has evolved quite a.

0:23:41.196 --> 0:23:46.796
<v Speaker 2>Bit from Yeah, I mean, it does get harder to

0:23:48.756 --> 0:23:50.916
<v Speaker 2>be as prolific as I was, for instance, back in

0:23:50.996 --> 0:23:53.796
<v Speaker 2>the eighties, where I seem to be constantly recording new

0:23:53.836 --> 0:23:56.156
<v Speaker 2>albums and touring, and from my point of view now,

0:23:56.596 --> 0:23:59.596
<v Speaker 2>the quality of it is uneven. You know, I made

0:23:59.756 --> 0:24:01.356
<v Speaker 2>at least three albums too many.

0:24:01.676 --> 0:24:03.836
<v Speaker 1>I think which ones would not make the cut if

0:24:03.916 --> 0:24:05.316
<v Speaker 1>you were now deciding.

0:24:05.396 --> 0:24:08.916
<v Speaker 2>You know what, I don't want to say because some

0:24:09.196 --> 0:24:11.956
<v Speaker 2>so someone will say to me, oh, this album of yours, bloke,

0:24:13.556 --> 0:24:15.876
<v Speaker 2>it's my favorite album. I love it. What am I

0:24:15.916 --> 0:24:17.116
<v Speaker 2>going to say? No, you're wrong.

0:24:17.996 --> 0:24:18.156
<v Speaker 7>You know.

0:24:19.756 --> 0:24:24.236
<v Speaker 2>If someone likes it, then great, but just for me.

0:24:24.396 --> 0:24:28.036
<v Speaker 2>But because I'm entitled to an opinion, about it too. Yeah, right,

0:24:28.156 --> 0:24:30.716
<v Speaker 2>And some of the albums are better than others just

0:24:30.916 --> 0:24:34.116
<v Speaker 2>for my own taste, but I don't want to spoil

0:24:34.196 --> 0:24:35.996
<v Speaker 2>anyone else's enjoyment of any of it.

0:24:36.316 --> 0:24:40.196
<v Speaker 1>What about musically, like stepping out once you once you

0:24:40.596 --> 0:24:44.596
<v Speaker 1>get to there, you're really you're you're really stretching out musically.

0:24:46.076 --> 0:24:49.556
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that album in general, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just

0:24:49.676 --> 0:24:52.356
<v Speaker 2>sort of it was really kind of starting a new

0:24:52.476 --> 0:24:56.076
<v Speaker 2>chapter where I feel like I was being more myself

0:24:57.036 --> 0:25:00.476
<v Speaker 2>and not so much influenced by what was going on

0:25:00.516 --> 0:25:04.436
<v Speaker 2>around me at the time. And and like I said,

0:25:04.436 --> 0:25:06.436
<v Speaker 2>it was bringing in a lot of those influences which

0:25:06.476 --> 0:25:09.036
<v Speaker 2>I thought were more New York influences of jazz and

0:25:09.196 --> 0:25:15.036
<v Speaker 2>Latin music rather than rock and roll. And even leaving

0:25:15.076 --> 0:25:17.676
<v Speaker 2>out the guitars, I still meet people who say there

0:25:17.716 --> 0:25:20.876
<v Speaker 2>were no guitars on night and day? Really, And I said, well,

0:25:20.996 --> 0:25:24.116
<v Speaker 2>did you hear any that no one seemed to notice?

0:25:24.156 --> 0:25:26.796
<v Speaker 2>Which is funny. Had this idea of it's just it's

0:25:26.836 --> 0:25:31.476
<v Speaker 2>all keyboards and percussion, And like I said, I didn't

0:25:31.476 --> 0:25:32.996
<v Speaker 2>think anyone was going to like it. I thought it

0:25:33.036 --> 0:25:36.916
<v Speaker 2>would be a really hard sell, and I was going

0:25:36.996 --> 0:25:40.156
<v Speaker 2>to do it anyway. Definitely stretching out musically because I

0:25:40.356 --> 0:25:42.916
<v Speaker 2>was capable of that, you know, I mean on the

0:25:42.956 --> 0:25:46.356
<v Speaker 2>first couple of hours, was a case of deliberately simplifying it,

0:25:46.356 --> 0:25:47.836
<v Speaker 2>which a lot of people were doing at the time.

0:25:48.436 --> 0:25:49.916
<v Speaker 2>You know, it felt like the thing to do at

0:25:49.956 --> 0:25:53.556
<v Speaker 2>the time. Even if you were you could be a

0:25:53.636 --> 0:25:57.516
<v Speaker 2>very good musician, but you'd play really simple deliberately, right,

0:25:57.916 --> 0:26:00.316
<v Speaker 2>you know. I mean my band was a pretty damn

0:26:00.356 --> 0:26:03.716
<v Speaker 2>good band, you know, but it was just keep it

0:26:03.876 --> 0:26:07.756
<v Speaker 2>really really simple. And I just stopped even thinking about that.

0:26:09.196 --> 0:26:12.316
<v Speaker 1>That was that likely a reaction to the progra that

0:26:12.436 --> 0:26:14.756
<v Speaker 1>was popular and all that, you know, sort of being

0:26:14.836 --> 0:26:16.636
<v Speaker 1>tired of it, people being sort of probably tired of

0:26:16.716 --> 0:26:17.916
<v Speaker 1>the frips of the world.

0:26:18.196 --> 0:26:20.756
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that going back, yeah, to the beginnings of

0:26:21.196 --> 0:26:23.996
<v Speaker 2>punk and all that. Yeah, it was, And at the

0:26:24.076 --> 0:26:26.596
<v Speaker 2>time I thought it was all great fun. I didn't

0:26:26.596 --> 0:26:29.996
<v Speaker 2>take it seriously at all. It just punk bands just

0:26:30.076 --> 0:26:34.396
<v Speaker 2>made me laugh, so I thought it was great. Really.

0:26:35.076 --> 0:26:37.876
<v Speaker 2>I had I once had a beer with Joe's Strauma

0:26:37.916 --> 0:26:41.636
<v Speaker 2>from The Clash, who was a great guy, and we

0:26:42.076 --> 0:26:47.436
<v Speaker 2>talked about how how critics especially lacking and they lacked

0:26:47.476 --> 0:26:51.196
<v Speaker 2>the humor a gene, you know, he was saying, how

0:26:51.236 --> 0:26:53.596
<v Speaker 2>that when when they were writing songs for the Clash,

0:26:53.636 --> 0:26:55.836
<v Speaker 2>him and Mick Jones, they would be cracking each other

0:26:55.996 --> 0:26:58.476
<v Speaker 2>up because they were, as we say in England, taking

0:26:58.516 --> 0:27:04.076
<v Speaker 2>the piss, you know, mocking making fun of and then

0:27:05.076 --> 0:27:10.876
<v Speaker 2>the reviews were come out excororating social political anger and

0:27:10.996 --> 0:27:15.476
<v Speaker 2>protesting this, and they'd be laughing for more. I was like, yes, exactly,

0:27:15.876 --> 0:27:18.516
<v Speaker 2>I felt exactly the same way. It was amazing how

0:27:18.596 --> 0:27:19.676
<v Speaker 2>seriously it was all taken.

0:27:20.236 --> 0:27:23.876
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and people critics that you were taking yourself seriously

0:27:23.876 --> 0:27:26.236
<v Speaker 1>a lot often right, like you right.

0:27:26.556 --> 0:27:28.916
<v Speaker 2>Well, they have no sense of humor. It's been my

0:27:28.996 --> 0:27:32.436
<v Speaker 2>observation over the years. It's the one thing that they

0:27:32.556 --> 0:27:36.196
<v Speaker 2>missed consistently. Yeah, as you know, they take everything at

0:27:36.236 --> 0:27:40.036
<v Speaker 2>face value and take it very seriously. It's funny.

0:27:41.196 --> 0:27:43.276
<v Speaker 1>Would you read reviews then or now?

0:27:44.076 --> 0:27:48.156
<v Speaker 2>Back then I would, Yeah, Nowadays I don't. I avoid

0:27:48.196 --> 0:27:51.716
<v Speaker 2>them Yeah yeah, yeah, because that could just drive you crazy. Yeah.

0:27:52.436 --> 0:27:54.356
<v Speaker 2>If you pay too much attention to any of that stuff,

0:27:54.396 --> 0:27:56.836
<v Speaker 2>you they're not not being able to create anything. Yeah.

0:27:58.476 --> 0:28:04.876
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back with more from Joe Jackson. I always

0:28:04.876 --> 0:28:09.076
<v Speaker 1>found it funny, you know, critics just the as if

0:28:09.196 --> 0:28:11.956
<v Speaker 1>new wave wasn't bad enough a term, it's like, and

0:28:12.036 --> 0:28:14.276
<v Speaker 1>then critics moved on to some point.

0:28:14.756 --> 0:28:19.876
<v Speaker 2>Like, you know, like sophistic pop okay, sophisto pop likes

0:28:19.916 --> 0:28:23.276
<v Speaker 2>pretty pullity and you okay, and and uh it was.

0:28:24.756 --> 0:28:28.996
<v Speaker 1>I think they threw in, who's the band that made that?

0:28:29.156 --> 0:28:34.196
<v Speaker 1>Uh Steve, Steve McQueen was the Prefabs, pre Fab Sprout. Yeah,

0:28:34.436 --> 0:28:35.036
<v Speaker 1>and they were great.

0:28:35.076 --> 0:28:36.516
<v Speaker 2>I mean, album was great.

0:28:36.796 --> 0:28:39.756
<v Speaker 1>That was amazing. But then you know their clients fist

0:28:39.916 --> 0:28:43.916
<v Speaker 1>pop pop sound terrible. You know, it's like it's a

0:28:43.996 --> 0:28:44.636
<v Speaker 1>terrible name.

0:28:44.956 --> 0:28:45.756
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course it is.

0:28:48.156 --> 0:28:51.196
<v Speaker 1>I guess I should bring up at this point that

0:28:51.476 --> 0:28:54.996
<v Speaker 1>Sonny Rollins just died, yes, ninety six or something, it

0:28:55.076 --> 0:28:57.796
<v Speaker 1>was ninety five, ninety six. Yeah, he got, he gotn't

0:28:57.796 --> 0:29:00.396
<v Speaker 1>played for quite quite a while. He was still playing

0:29:00.396 --> 0:29:01.476
<v Speaker 1>a still sorry.

0:29:01.676 --> 0:29:05.076
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw him again, Like going back to the

0:29:05.396 --> 0:29:06.996
<v Speaker 2>days when I was first living in New York in

0:29:07.036 --> 0:29:09.476
<v Speaker 2>the eighties, I saw Sonny Rollins perform a couple of times,

0:29:10.076 --> 0:29:13.356
<v Speaker 2>and I was absolutely blown away he had been back then,

0:29:13.516 --> 0:29:15.676
<v Speaker 2>you know. I mean one of the shows that I

0:29:15.756 --> 0:29:18.036
<v Speaker 2>saw he did was one of the most powerful performances

0:29:18.076 --> 0:29:20.556
<v Speaker 2>I've ever seen, you know, by by a jazz musicians.

0:29:20.596 --> 0:29:24.236
<v Speaker 2>Certainly my hair was standing on it. You know, he

0:29:24.396 --> 0:29:25.316
<v Speaker 2>was really special.

0:29:25.836 --> 0:29:28.196
<v Speaker 1>Wow, what do you know? What? Where was it? Do

0:29:28.236 --> 0:29:28.636
<v Speaker 1>you remember?

0:29:29.196 --> 0:29:31.996
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? It was the bottom Line, which was a great venue.

0:29:32.036 --> 0:29:33.196
<v Speaker 2>It was long gone unfortunately.

0:29:34.156 --> 0:29:37.036
<v Speaker 1>Is that it was that because I know you also

0:29:38.436 --> 0:29:42.516
<v Speaker 1>you inspired for Body and Saul by his volume.

0:29:42.676 --> 0:29:46.076
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that wasn't It was just, you know, we were

0:29:46.116 --> 0:29:50.196
<v Speaker 2>trying to think of a cover concept and we felt

0:29:50.236 --> 0:29:54.556
<v Speaker 2>we tried something with that classic blue note look, sort

0:29:54.596 --> 0:29:59.556
<v Speaker 2>of homage to that, which other people have done since then.

0:30:00.156 --> 0:30:02.476
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they had done before then, but if so, I

0:30:02.596 --> 0:30:05.676
<v Speaker 2>wasn't aware of it. But it was more just just

0:30:05.756 --> 0:30:07.116
<v Speaker 2>the look of it, you know. It wasn't just the

0:30:07.196 --> 0:30:08.676
<v Speaker 2>fact that I was a fan of Sonny your Eyes.

0:30:09.116 --> 0:30:10.396
<v Speaker 1>It's still an amazing album cover.

0:30:11.476 --> 0:30:14.516
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like it. A few years later, Rolling Stone

0:30:15.116 --> 0:30:17.796
<v Speaker 2>published a little thing with they put the Sunny Rollins

0:30:17.836 --> 0:30:22.756
<v Speaker 2>album in Mind side by side. They busted me, you know,

0:30:23.516 --> 0:30:26.756
<v Speaker 2>apparently I ripped it off and they're revealing to the

0:30:26.836 --> 0:30:29.396
<v Speaker 2>world this terrible ripoff that I did.

0:30:29.916 --> 0:30:32.876
<v Speaker 1>Me play something from the new album any particular song

0:30:32.956 --> 0:30:36.276
<v Speaker 1>you like off the album? Do you have a favorite?

0:30:36.516 --> 0:30:40.876
<v Speaker 2>No? I would never even if I did. I wouldn't

0:30:40.916 --> 0:30:45.596
<v Speaker 2>tell you. But now I'm always reluctant to pick favorites.

0:30:45.596 --> 0:30:47.956
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that's not my job. But if I

0:30:48.036 --> 0:30:50.316
<v Speaker 2>didn't really like every track, I wouldn't put it out

0:30:50.356 --> 0:30:51.356
<v Speaker 2>that way I feel about it.

0:30:51.516 --> 0:30:57.156
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm play this made God laugh as.

0:31:00.196 --> 0:31:07.916
<v Speaker 8>Everything still side, which means you never know what's coming next.

0:31:09.196 --> 0:31:13.996
<v Speaker 1>Of luck, the stroke of ten, the freaking, the flash

0:31:14.236 --> 0:31:15.036
<v Speaker 1>of fame.

0:31:16.796 --> 0:31:18.196
<v Speaker 4>So now down.

0:31:18.916 --> 0:31:20.196
<v Speaker 7>But that's not to it.

0:31:20.996 --> 0:31:26.556
<v Speaker 4>To listen to why the wise man said another day

0:31:27.436 --> 0:31:33.276
<v Speaker 4>another song, SA say where you could be wrong?

0:31:33.836 --> 0:31:37.796
<v Speaker 6>You made shot life when you told in your pants.

0:31:39.196 --> 0:31:43.756
<v Speaker 7>Come on, you know it's true, and you make shot not.

0:31:44.156 --> 0:31:48.956
<v Speaker 6>When you made you out of your pance moreful you.

0:32:00.116 --> 0:32:02.516
<v Speaker 1>So I love the I love the It's a great

0:32:02.596 --> 0:32:05.076
<v Speaker 1>song and you celebrate on it. It's also a great

0:32:05.116 --> 0:32:07.316
<v Speaker 1>performance by your bass player by Grant.

0:32:07.156 --> 0:32:09.436
<v Speaker 2>Oh It's yeah, Well he's always great, Gray.

0:32:09.516 --> 0:32:11.636
<v Speaker 1>I mean that I would say that sounds amazing, isn't it.

0:32:13.876 --> 0:32:16.116
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you about him? But yeah, what

0:32:16.476 --> 0:32:19.596
<v Speaker 1>one did? What was the genesis of that song?

0:32:20.676 --> 0:32:22.756
<v Speaker 2>It was a quote that I read somewhere and I

0:32:22.796 --> 0:32:25.956
<v Speaker 2>can't remember who who it was, but they said, if

0:32:25.996 --> 0:32:28.996
<v Speaker 2>you want to make the God's laugh, tell them your plans.

0:32:29.796 --> 0:32:31.516
<v Speaker 2>And I thought that was really interesting. The more I

0:32:31.556 --> 0:32:33.596
<v Speaker 2>thought about it, and more I thought it was a

0:32:33.636 --> 0:32:38.836
<v Speaker 2>happy thought, because you know, we all need to figure

0:32:38.876 --> 0:32:41.756
<v Speaker 2>out that we can't control everything. And the sooner you

0:32:41.836 --> 0:32:44.596
<v Speaker 2>realize that, the better, because it makes life less stressful

0:32:44.676 --> 0:32:47.876
<v Speaker 2>and generally, you know, nicer if you can do that.

0:32:48.676 --> 0:32:51.316
<v Speaker 2>It's funny because yeah, there's been a couple of people

0:32:51.996 --> 0:32:54.356
<v Speaker 2>interpreted as a sad song, and I don't think it

0:32:54.436 --> 0:32:58.036
<v Speaker 2>is at all. But that was the origin of it actually,

0:32:58.196 --> 0:33:01.116
<v Speaker 2>after I had written the song, and and by the way,

0:33:02.276 --> 0:33:05.076
<v Speaker 2>no song is all about the lyrics. It's just that

0:33:05.196 --> 0:33:08.596
<v Speaker 2>that's what we all end up talking about, you know.

0:33:09.556 --> 0:33:14.356
<v Speaker 2>But having written a song, I decided to try and

0:33:14.396 --> 0:33:17.196
<v Speaker 2>find out where i'd heard this quote. And turns out

0:33:17.236 --> 0:33:20.436
<v Speaker 2>Woody Allen said something very similar, but he got it

0:33:20.476 --> 0:33:23.596
<v Speaker 2>from an old Yiddish proverb which I'm not going to

0:33:23.636 --> 0:33:26.676
<v Speaker 2>try to say in Yiddish, but it because man plans

0:33:26.716 --> 0:33:29.476
<v Speaker 2>and God laughs, you know. So it's been around for

0:33:29.556 --> 0:33:30.796
<v Speaker 2>a while, this idea.

0:33:31.396 --> 0:33:34.716
<v Speaker 1>Are you always aware of the sort of the meta

0:33:34.796 --> 0:33:38.316
<v Speaker 1>text of a set of lyrics that you write or.

0:33:39.956 --> 0:33:44.116
<v Speaker 2>Meta text? Do I have meta texts? I'm not sure,

0:33:46.836 --> 0:33:53.836
<v Speaker 2>there's always layers to it. I find it very difficult

0:33:53.876 --> 0:33:56.516
<v Speaker 2>to I mean, I don't write I don't want to

0:33:56.556 --> 0:33:59.196
<v Speaker 2>write songs that are didactic telling you what to think.

0:33:59.396 --> 0:34:04.196
<v Speaker 2>You know, this is that what it is. And like

0:34:04.276 --> 0:34:08.356
<v Speaker 2>I said, songs are seventy percent music anyway. Yeah, I think,

0:34:08.836 --> 0:34:11.276
<v Speaker 2>you know, for me anyway, I mean, I think there's

0:34:11.316 --> 0:34:15.396
<v Speaker 2>a tradition of songwriting that's different that it's more about storytelling,

0:34:15.436 --> 0:34:17.356
<v Speaker 2>it's more about lyrics. It's more of a folk tradition.

0:34:18.116 --> 0:34:20.236
<v Speaker 2>That's not really what I do. And I think for

0:34:20.316 --> 0:34:22.676
<v Speaker 2>the most part, it's the music that really moves people,

0:34:23.516 --> 0:34:27.276
<v Speaker 2>and the words kind of tag along afterwards, and sometimes

0:34:27.396 --> 0:34:33.036
<v Speaker 2>they're you know, worth thinking about. I mean, I certainly

0:34:33.076 --> 0:34:37.516
<v Speaker 2>try to write the best lyrics I can, but it's

0:34:38.756 --> 0:34:40.676
<v Speaker 2>I'm really primarily a music guy.

0:34:41.556 --> 0:34:44.556
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think people listen for different things. Some people

0:34:44.596 --> 0:34:49.196
<v Speaker 1>are lyrics people, some people are I tend not to be,

0:34:49.636 --> 0:34:51.916
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, I don't either. I kind of take in

0:34:52.156 --> 0:34:55.596
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing, you know. Yeah, and if the lyrics

0:34:55.596 --> 0:34:59.036
<v Speaker 1>are particularly interesting, they'll draw me in at some point,

0:34:59.436 --> 0:35:01.716
<v Speaker 1>and bad lyrics can probably ruin out an otherwise a

0:35:01.756 --> 0:35:02.116
<v Speaker 1>good song.

0:35:03.476 --> 0:35:06.476
<v Speaker 2>No. On the contrary, this is one of the reasons

0:35:06.516 --> 0:35:08.396
<v Speaker 2>I think music is more important the lyrics, because there's

0:35:08.396 --> 0:35:10.436
<v Speaker 2>a lot of songs I really like that. If I

0:35:10.476 --> 0:35:13.436
<v Speaker 2>really think about the lyrics, they're pretty stupid. It don't

0:35:13.476 --> 0:35:16.716
<v Speaker 2>even make sense or anything. Not to mention the fact

0:35:16.756 --> 0:35:18.916
<v Speaker 2>that there's a lot of music I really love, where

0:35:18.956 --> 0:35:21.396
<v Speaker 2>the words are in a language that I have no

0:35:21.516 --> 0:35:22.076
<v Speaker 2>idea about.

0:35:22.316 --> 0:35:22.996
<v Speaker 1>What's often.

0:35:24.836 --> 0:35:26.436
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it's a good thing.

0:35:26.836 --> 0:35:28.276
<v Speaker 1>Removes that he's sort of critical.

0:35:28.436 --> 0:35:31.396
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the lyrics might be terrible. I might be listening

0:35:31.476 --> 0:35:33.476
<v Speaker 2>to some music from Serbia. You know it was the

0:35:33.556 --> 0:35:36.636
<v Speaker 2>worst lyrics ever. I would never know. I'm just enjoyed it.

0:35:37.076 --> 0:35:39.316
<v Speaker 1>And sometimes you know, like the class like just like Joe,

0:35:39.396 --> 0:35:42.076
<v Speaker 1>and then we're singing, you know, like such an accent

0:35:42.116 --> 0:35:45.836
<v Speaker 1>did make every other word.

0:35:46.476 --> 0:35:48.556
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing I could never understand about Shane mc gowan,

0:35:48.596 --> 0:35:51.076
<v Speaker 2>because he wrote great lyrics and when he sang, you

0:35:51.076 --> 0:35:55.076
<v Speaker 2>couldn't understand a word. Amazing.

0:35:55.276 --> 0:35:57.276
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, I didn't know he was even

0:35:57.316 --> 0:35:59.556
<v Speaker 1>revered as a songwriter until he passed away, and then

0:35:59.596 --> 0:36:00.636
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden it became.

0:36:01.676 --> 0:36:07.716
<v Speaker 2>Really turn to songwriter reed. But it was I mean

0:36:07.916 --> 0:36:09.356
<v Speaker 2>I envied him in a way because I saw the

0:36:09.396 --> 0:36:11.796
<v Speaker 2>poke's live once and I think he sang on about

0:36:11.836 --> 0:36:14.596
<v Speaker 2>three songs and he would say thank you very much,

0:36:15.996 --> 0:36:19.996
<v Speaker 2>and everyone would cheers, like, yeah, good old drunk, shambolic Shane,

0:36:20.076 --> 0:36:23.116
<v Speaker 2>not making any sense. We love it, you know, I thought, oh,

0:36:23.236 --> 0:36:23.916
<v Speaker 2>that's a good gig.

0:36:26.636 --> 0:36:28.756
<v Speaker 1>Did you ever did you ever get to know him?

0:36:28.836 --> 0:36:31.396
<v Speaker 1>Or no? No, no, did you get did you ever

0:36:31.436 --> 0:36:33.756
<v Speaker 1>get to know many peers or like as in terms

0:36:33.836 --> 0:36:36.556
<v Speaker 1>of beyond you know you mentioned having a beer.

0:36:36.676 --> 0:36:41.076
<v Speaker 2>I mean I met quite a few people. Andy Partriy

0:36:41.116 --> 0:36:42.876
<v Speaker 2>is just a bit of a bit of a friend

0:36:43.316 --> 0:36:46.756
<v Speaker 2>of XTC, someone that I think you have a lot

0:36:46.996 --> 0:36:49.956
<v Speaker 2>in common with someone no one ever compares me to

0:36:50.596 --> 0:36:53.836
<v Speaker 2>musically very different. No, I think we have a lot

0:36:53.876 --> 0:36:59.476
<v Speaker 2>in common. Really, yeah, yeah, and yeah Joe's trauma was

0:36:59.916 --> 0:37:02.276
<v Speaker 2>was a great guy. I was really sad when he died.

0:37:02.436 --> 0:37:06.316
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe he's actually not with us still. But

0:37:07.276 --> 0:37:09.116
<v Speaker 2>I can't say, you know, it's I don't hang out

0:37:09.196 --> 0:37:12.756
<v Speaker 2>up with a whole bunch of my peers. I'm not

0:37:13.076 --> 0:37:15.716
<v Speaker 2>friends with these people. I mean, I don't mean that

0:37:15.756 --> 0:37:18.036
<v Speaker 2>in a dismissive what it's just not the way it's

0:37:18.196 --> 0:37:18.636
<v Speaker 2>turned out.

0:37:18.876 --> 0:37:21.716
<v Speaker 1>What do you find yourself listening to primarily these days.

0:37:22.956 --> 0:37:25.636
<v Speaker 2>Whole kinds of stuff. I'm really all over the map,

0:37:25.836 --> 0:37:28.436
<v Speaker 2>a lot of jazz, a lot of Latin music. Still

0:37:29.756 --> 0:37:31.916
<v Speaker 2>listening to a lot of music from Colombia, which I

0:37:31.996 --> 0:37:36.076
<v Speaker 2>think some really interesting music coming out Columbia. I got

0:37:36.116 --> 0:37:39.796
<v Speaker 2>into early jazz in recent years, so listening to people

0:37:39.876 --> 0:37:45.356
<v Speaker 2>like Rahines, Sydney Beshet, Jery Rollmorton. Late twenties, early thirties

0:37:45.436 --> 0:37:48.756
<v Speaker 2>jazz I really love and late fifties early sixties jazz

0:37:48.796 --> 0:37:53.196
<v Speaker 2>are the two eras that I really love. But I mean,

0:37:53.916 --> 0:37:56.196
<v Speaker 2>I don't hear a lot of interesting stuff in the

0:37:56.356 --> 0:38:00.596
<v Speaker 2>pop rock, the Anglo American pop rock world. Yeah, I

0:38:00.676 --> 0:38:03.116
<v Speaker 2>don't think it's that great. I mean there's some things

0:38:04.756 --> 0:38:09.036
<v Speaker 2>from outside of the Anglo American sphere, you know. Yeah,

0:38:09.316 --> 0:38:12.396
<v Speaker 2>some interesting music from I mean like Stromai from Belgium.

0:38:12.596 --> 0:38:15.876
<v Speaker 2>I think it's really cool. Wow. Yeah, you know, that's

0:38:15.916 --> 0:38:19.076
<v Speaker 2>a band from Berlin called Zed. I really like, you know,

0:38:19.756 --> 0:38:23.076
<v Speaker 2>Rosalia from Spain is really interesting. So there's some some

0:38:24.076 --> 0:38:26.956
<v Speaker 2>some you know, original things breaks through here and there.

0:38:27.636 --> 0:38:30.956
<v Speaker 1>I don't know there was the band the band was sorry,

0:38:31.156 --> 0:38:33.676
<v Speaker 1>was the band from Berlin? You said, Okay, I don't know, Z.

0:38:33.876 --> 0:38:37.236
<v Speaker 1>But the other two Stroma and Rosalie. I mean they're

0:38:37.396 --> 0:38:40.596
<v Speaker 1>they're really I don't want to say I'm on guard,

0:38:40.676 --> 0:38:44.156
<v Speaker 1>but they do things outside of what they're contemporaries that's

0:38:44.516 --> 0:38:48.116
<v Speaker 1>interested in their their sort of vocabulary as musicians seems

0:38:48.796 --> 0:38:53.196
<v Speaker 1>extra you know, extra extraordinary perhaps, so.

0:38:53.236 --> 0:38:56.156
<v Speaker 2>That must be with Draji to that, right, Yeah, it

0:38:56.156 --> 0:38:59.596
<v Speaker 2>feels very different, right, It's not just something that you

0:38:59.636 --> 0:39:02.196
<v Speaker 2>can easily put a label on and you know, file

0:39:02.276 --> 0:39:04.436
<v Speaker 2>it and it's this, this, this, and it's for these

0:39:04.516 --> 0:39:11.116
<v Speaker 2>people and that's more interesting area. But it's harder to

0:39:11.196 --> 0:39:15.676
<v Speaker 2>pin it down. Yeah, in just a minute, we'll be

0:39:15.756 --> 0:39:23.076
<v Speaker 2>back with more from Joe Jackson. It's funny that early

0:39:23.156 --> 0:39:28.116
<v Speaker 2>on there was this sort of keep it simple philosophy. Yeah,

0:39:28.716 --> 0:39:30.676
<v Speaker 2>you eventually ditch it and then it really is. So

0:39:30.716 --> 0:39:35.356
<v Speaker 2>it feels like, you know, in a weird way. Probably

0:39:35.356 --> 0:39:37.756
<v Speaker 2>that's probably what you heard in the prog rock when

0:39:37.796 --> 0:39:39.596
<v Speaker 2>you were young that you enjoyed, even though you don't

0:39:39.876 --> 0:39:43.516
<v Speaker 2>like it now the presentation of it maybe. But yeah,

0:39:43.596 --> 0:39:45.756
<v Speaker 2>well this goes back to when I was, you know,

0:39:45.916 --> 0:39:48.676
<v Speaker 2>fifteen or something like this, and I because it's because

0:39:48.676 --> 0:39:51.796
<v Speaker 2>I had a classical training, you know, so I learned

0:39:51.836 --> 0:39:55.116
<v Speaker 2>to read music when I was eleven, and it's no

0:39:55.236 --> 0:39:59.796
<v Speaker 2>big deal, you know, So I think that I kind

0:39:59.836 --> 0:40:02.556
<v Speaker 2>of maybe there was a couple of years where I

0:40:02.676 --> 0:40:05.756
<v Speaker 2>turned my nose up at pop music, and but then

0:40:05.796 --> 0:40:07.756
<v Speaker 2>I started to get interested in it again. And the

0:40:07.796 --> 0:40:09.596
<v Speaker 2>things that interested me were the things that I thought

0:40:09.636 --> 0:40:14.556
<v Speaker 2>were musically more sophisticated. But then after a while there

0:40:14.596 --> 0:40:17.396
<v Speaker 2>were things like people like David Bowie. You know that

0:40:17.956 --> 0:40:20.836
<v Speaker 2>that would have brought me back more towards pop music.

0:40:21.436 --> 0:40:24.156
<v Speaker 1>Because it blended a bit of the sophistication of.

0:40:24.356 --> 0:40:26.156
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I also started to think, well, you know,

0:40:26.276 --> 0:40:28.116
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be stuck up about anything. I mean,

0:40:28.276 --> 0:40:31.076
<v Speaker 2>all kinds of music, can you have something good about them?

0:40:31.156 --> 0:40:33.276
<v Speaker 2>So I think that's been my attitude ever since.

0:40:33.996 --> 0:40:36.196
<v Speaker 1>Do you keep up with your sort of classical training?

0:40:36.396 --> 0:40:39.356
<v Speaker 1>Is that as a muscle that you've continued to I

0:40:39.436 --> 0:40:42.716
<v Speaker 1>think it's just kind of part of the arsenal of something.

0:40:42.956 --> 0:40:47.436
<v Speaker 2>It's just in there. So do you practice practice a lot?

0:40:49.396 --> 0:40:51.036
<v Speaker 2>I play quite a lot, so I guess it's all

0:40:51.076 --> 0:40:54.516
<v Speaker 2>practicing in a way. YEA, yeah, I mean I don't

0:40:54.556 --> 0:40:57.036
<v Speaker 2>practice scales and stuff like that for hours like I

0:40:57.116 --> 0:41:03.316
<v Speaker 2>did when I was a teenager, but and you what will.

0:41:03.236 --> 0:41:04.876
<v Speaker 1>You pick up like a piece you haven't played and

0:41:05.036 --> 0:41:07.076
<v Speaker 1>just try to get through it occasionally.

0:41:07.156 --> 0:41:10.076
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, one's the last. I mean did so it's kind

0:41:10.116 --> 0:41:13.356
<v Speaker 2>of cool. Well, I'm not recently, to be honest. I

0:41:13.436 --> 0:41:16.196
<v Speaker 2>mean technically I was probably much better at eighteen than

0:41:16.236 --> 0:41:21.676
<v Speaker 2>I am now. Yeah, But in terms of being able

0:41:21.716 --> 0:41:25.516
<v Speaker 2>to improvise and be creative at the keyboard, I was

0:41:25.556 --> 0:41:28.756
<v Speaker 2>not very good then. I think I'm still getting better

0:41:28.876 --> 0:41:29.116
<v Speaker 2>at that.

0:41:30.116 --> 0:41:32.436
<v Speaker 1>So you weren't early on, you weren't good at improvising.

0:41:33.876 --> 0:41:38.596
<v Speaker 2>I mean I tried, you know, but I think I've

0:41:38.636 --> 0:41:40.636
<v Speaker 2>gotten better, but I think I'm still learning. I think

0:41:40.676 --> 0:41:43.036
<v Speaker 2>my playing is still still getting better. Yeah.

0:41:43.876 --> 0:41:45.996
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that must have been. It must have been great

0:41:46.036 --> 0:41:48.956
<v Speaker 1>then being around guys like her and Jerry Marson. I

0:41:48.956 --> 0:41:50.516
<v Speaker 1>guess Quincy Jones would have been at A and M

0:41:50.596 --> 0:41:52.556
<v Speaker 1>at that time, or at least.

0:41:52.556 --> 0:41:55.116
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I wasn't hanging out with these people, but

0:41:55.636 --> 0:41:57.436
<v Speaker 2>I mean I was aware that I was with a

0:41:57.676 --> 0:42:01.036
<v Speaker 2>fairly cool record label, you know, and other acts that

0:42:01.116 --> 0:42:05.476
<v Speaker 2>I liked. I like Squeeze quite a lot, and some

0:42:05.636 --> 0:42:08.436
<v Speaker 2>of the things that were really interesting I picked up

0:42:08.476 --> 0:42:11.556
<v Speaker 2>on a M, like they had yellow Magic orchestra from Japan.

0:42:12.356 --> 0:42:15.076
<v Speaker 2>I remember picking up a couple of their records from

0:42:15.076 --> 0:42:17.236
<v Speaker 2>the A and M officers and really enjoyed them.

0:42:17.476 --> 0:42:22.356
<v Speaker 1>I don't know they're on an MS. Yeah, how did

0:42:22.396 --> 0:42:25.476
<v Speaker 1>you find your guys? How did you find your band?

0:42:26.676 --> 0:42:28.996
<v Speaker 2>Well, they were local guys. The bass players of the

0:42:29.036 --> 0:42:33.116
<v Speaker 2>drummer Graham maybe Dave Olton. We're local guys that, I mean.

0:42:33.156 --> 0:42:35.996
<v Speaker 2>Graham I met when I was eighteen or something, so

0:42:36.116 --> 0:42:38.796
<v Speaker 2>we were playing in different kinds of bands together, and

0:42:38.996 --> 0:42:44.036
<v Speaker 2>Dave Olton was playing with, you know, other people I

0:42:44.156 --> 0:42:47.596
<v Speaker 2>knew and you know, so we all grew up in

0:42:47.676 --> 0:42:50.636
<v Speaker 2>the same area around Portsmouth on the south coast of England.

0:42:52.116 --> 0:42:53.676
<v Speaker 2>But by the time I made my first album, I

0:42:53.756 --> 0:42:56.476
<v Speaker 2>was living in London and Gary the guitarist, was in London,

0:42:56.476 --> 0:43:01.076
<v Speaker 2>who was someone that I met then. So yeah, it

0:43:01.276 --> 0:43:03.716
<v Speaker 2>was just a kind of pretty organic kind of thing.

0:43:04.436 --> 0:43:07.996
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty wild that those guys were just around and

0:43:08.236 --> 0:43:12.596
<v Speaker 1>I mean they were they're really great players. Yeah, did

0:43:12.636 --> 0:43:14.476
<v Speaker 1>they have him? Did they have their own things going on?

0:43:14.836 --> 0:43:15.276
<v Speaker 2>What were there?

0:43:15.596 --> 0:43:16.996
<v Speaker 1>What were they at when you kind of fot were

0:43:16.996 --> 0:43:19.996
<v Speaker 1>they were they? What were their ambitions?

0:43:20.116 --> 0:43:22.356
<v Speaker 2>Just I don't know what Actually, you have to ask them.

0:43:22.436 --> 0:43:25.636
<v Speaker 2>I suppose just doing gigs, whatever gigs they could get,

0:43:25.756 --> 0:43:29.036
<v Speaker 2>and doing part time jobs and scraping by.

0:43:29.556 --> 0:43:31.716
<v Speaker 1>And how do you typically work with them?

0:43:33.076 --> 0:43:33.236
<v Speaker 3>Dave?

0:43:33.556 --> 0:43:38.156
<v Speaker 1>Dave's still around often, right, not always, but I mean, well.

0:43:38.076 --> 0:43:42.836
<v Speaker 2>He hasn't wanted to tour for quite a long time. Yeah,

0:43:42.916 --> 0:43:45.996
<v Speaker 2>he's kind of was. I mean the reason I broke

0:43:46.076 --> 0:43:47.636
<v Speaker 2>up my first man was because he didn't want to

0:43:47.676 --> 0:43:48.276
<v Speaker 2>tour anymore.

0:43:48.516 --> 0:43:49.196
<v Speaker 1>Is that what happened?

0:43:49.316 --> 0:43:52.156
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And rather than just replace him and carry on,

0:43:52.236 --> 0:43:55.076
<v Speaker 2>I thought, well, maybe it's time for a break, take

0:43:55.156 --> 0:43:59.516
<v Speaker 2>some time off and rethink. But he came back on

0:43:59.636 --> 0:44:01.716
<v Speaker 2>board later and we did a couple more albums and

0:44:01.756 --> 0:44:03.756
<v Speaker 2>tours together, and then he kind of dropped out again.

0:44:04.636 --> 0:44:08.836
<v Speaker 2>So I've had a sort of procession of drummers, some

0:44:09.116 --> 0:44:13.556
<v Speaker 2>eight ones actually, so Doug Yol, who's I'm working with now,

0:44:13.876 --> 0:44:16.116
<v Speaker 2>been working together for about ten years.

0:44:16.956 --> 0:44:18.596
<v Speaker 1>How does it work when you bring something to your

0:44:18.636 --> 0:44:21.356
<v Speaker 1>band it? How do you work with them?

0:44:21.436 --> 0:44:24.356
<v Speaker 2>How do you work Make a demo of some sort

0:44:25.356 --> 0:44:27.396
<v Speaker 2>and say we'll listen to this and kind of get

0:44:27.436 --> 0:44:31.836
<v Speaker 2>familiar with it, learn the chord changes, learn learn the parts.

0:44:33.116 --> 0:44:39.956
<v Speaker 2>In some cases there'll be things that that really suit

0:44:40.036 --> 0:44:42.796
<v Speaker 2>them and sound great, and other times it doesn't really

0:44:42.836 --> 0:44:46.276
<v Speaker 2>work and we have to negotiate. So it's kind of like, well,

0:44:46.716 --> 0:44:48.916
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't seem to work for you, what can you

0:44:48.996 --> 0:44:52.836
<v Speaker 2>do that's along the same lines, And so it becomes

0:44:53.036 --> 0:44:57.676
<v Speaker 2>collaborative to a certain extent, but I have the final

0:44:57.756 --> 0:45:00.756
<v Speaker 2>say because someone has to and it should be the

0:45:00.796 --> 0:45:04.236
<v Speaker 2>guy whose names on the record. So people have asked me,

0:45:04.276 --> 0:45:07.156
<v Speaker 2>as you're burning democracy, and it's not as a dictatorship actually,

0:45:07.676 --> 0:45:10.516
<v Speaker 2>but it's what they call it nine dictatorship where the

0:45:10.596 --> 0:45:11.676
<v Speaker 2>dictator is not a bad.

0:45:11.596 --> 0:45:14.276
<v Speaker 1>Guy anti.

0:45:15.836 --> 0:45:15.956
<v Speaker 2>Sir?

0:45:16.116 --> 0:45:19.596
<v Speaker 1>Can we please change this? Can I change this part?

0:45:19.636 --> 0:45:22.236
<v Speaker 1>It's not suitable. I mean, so you you have the demo,

0:45:22.316 --> 0:45:26.596
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty fleshed out, and they mostly learn it how

0:45:26.716 --> 0:45:27.436
<v Speaker 1>you presented it.

0:45:27.796 --> 0:45:30.436
<v Speaker 2>But there's always some things that change along the way.

0:45:30.836 --> 0:45:33.036
<v Speaker 2>And I quite enjoy that that process because I do

0:45:33.156 --> 0:45:35.676
<v Speaker 2>want people to feel like they're involved in it and

0:45:35.716 --> 0:45:38.196
<v Speaker 2>they're not just you know, like session guys or something.

0:45:38.396 --> 0:45:38.596
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:45:40.156 --> 0:45:43.916
<v Speaker 2>I'm very particular about picking the people who I like

0:45:43.996 --> 0:45:47.716
<v Speaker 2>their personality, both as people and as players, you know,

0:45:47.876 --> 0:45:52.036
<v Speaker 2>and trying to find ways to especially in a live situation.

0:45:52.436 --> 0:45:54.796
<v Speaker 2>I was trying to find ways to make everyone in

0:45:54.876 --> 0:46:00.196
<v Speaker 2>the band shine, you know, give each player share of

0:46:00.236 --> 0:46:02.516
<v Speaker 2>the spotlight. Yeah, that's one of the really fun things

0:46:02.516 --> 0:46:03.676
<v Speaker 2>about playing live. I think.

0:46:03.956 --> 0:46:09.356
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the begs parts, those they're not that fleshed, are

0:46:09.396 --> 0:46:10.196
<v Speaker 1>they are the flesh?

0:46:10.836 --> 0:46:12.836
<v Speaker 2>Some of them are, Yeah, some of them are. But

0:46:13.036 --> 0:46:15.636
<v Speaker 2>there's Yeah, there's this baselines part of the song as

0:46:15.676 --> 0:46:18.956
<v Speaker 2>I conceived it, you know, so so I you know,

0:46:19.076 --> 0:46:21.476
<v Speaker 2>some of the baselines are what I've written. Some of

0:46:21.556 --> 0:46:24.156
<v Speaker 2>them are Graham doing something along the lines that I

0:46:24.236 --> 0:46:26.636
<v Speaker 2>ask him to do, because I know him well enough

0:46:26.676 --> 0:46:30.596
<v Speaker 2>that he's generally going to come up with something I like. Yeah, so,

0:46:31.516 --> 0:46:33.596
<v Speaker 2>and if I don't like it, I'll tell him that

0:46:34.236 --> 0:46:39.596
<v Speaker 2>that's my prerogative. But yeah, it's it's hard to explain

0:46:39.596 --> 0:46:42.236
<v Speaker 2>it because the question comes up quite a lot, you know,

0:46:42.556 --> 0:46:45.996
<v Speaker 2>how much, say, do the musicians have in the creation

0:46:46.116 --> 0:46:48.876
<v Speaker 2>of their own parts? And it's it's not like black

0:46:48.956 --> 0:46:51.156
<v Speaker 2>and white, This is kind of somewhere in the middle.

0:46:52.516 --> 0:46:55.396
<v Speaker 2>How much does a song come to you when when

0:46:56.396 --> 0:46:59.236
<v Speaker 2>fully formed? How much do you kind of hear the

0:46:59.276 --> 0:47:03.236
<v Speaker 2>full thing a lot of the time. Yeah, yeah, I

0:47:03.276 --> 0:47:07.076
<v Speaker 2>don't know why, but I don't think in terms of well,

0:47:07.156 --> 0:47:10.116
<v Speaker 2>I have this few cores and what do I do now?

0:47:10.196 --> 0:47:10.316
<v Speaker 7>You know?

0:47:10.356 --> 0:47:14.516
<v Speaker 2>I tend to sort of hear whole the whole kind

0:47:14.556 --> 0:47:18.956
<v Speaker 2>of sound world in my head if you like, hard

0:47:19.036 --> 0:47:21.916
<v Speaker 2>to describe with us sounding a bit kind of pretentious.

0:47:21.636 --> 0:47:25.516
<v Speaker 1>Let's play. Maybe I'm not sorry for sure, it's im agreeable.

0:47:25.556 --> 0:47:27.356
<v Speaker 1>Whatever you whatever you like, Okay.

0:47:40.756 --> 0:47:44.196
<v Speaker 6>Hello cruel mode. I'm not going away, so I might

0:47:44.316 --> 0:47:46.076
<v Speaker 6>as well at my side.

0:47:52.716 --> 0:47:56.236
<v Speaker 8>For other dancer I never gave, and for every damn

0:47:56.356 --> 0:48:07.116
<v Speaker 8>wild That'll failed to say, for every little fat I didn't.

0:48:06.956 --> 0:48:17.556
<v Speaker 6>Chase, for every little fool just like my face, I

0:48:17.756 --> 0:48:18.396
<v Speaker 6>know that you.

0:48:18.756 --> 0:48:24.276
<v Speaker 1>Die, I know that you want it. I know that

0:48:24.476 --> 0:48:27.196
<v Speaker 1>you need leave it alone.

0:48:27.316 --> 0:48:30.516
<v Speaker 6>Because I'm not gonna say that I'm not sorry.

0:48:31.156 --> 0:48:32.596
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sorry at all.

0:48:35.756 --> 0:48:38.676
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry at.

0:48:38.516 --> 0:48:51.556
<v Speaker 1>All for every cause.

0:48:51.356 --> 0:48:54.276
<v Speaker 7>That I didn't support in any love that I broke

0:48:54.436 --> 0:49:05.356
<v Speaker 7>saying what I thought for every California dude I let

0:49:05.396 --> 0:49:06.556
<v Speaker 7>the love to observe.

0:49:06.636 --> 0:49:10.396
<v Speaker 1>I had an attitude I feel seen.

0:49:14.996 --> 0:49:18.876
<v Speaker 7>For every FLYNT choose to fly and all the crocodilechies.

0:49:19.036 --> 0:49:20.596
<v Speaker 6>I refuse to cry.

0:49:28.116 --> 0:49:28.436
<v Speaker 5>That you.

0:49:31.356 --> 0:49:32.476
<v Speaker 1>You so.

0:49:35.796 --> 0:49:39.036
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm saying no, it's funny to because I haven't

0:49:39.036 --> 0:49:44.076
<v Speaker 2>actually listened to that for a while and and because

0:49:44.156 --> 0:49:46.996
<v Speaker 2>we've been were what is it, twelve shows into our

0:49:47.036 --> 0:49:49.436
<v Speaker 2>tour now, and we're playing this song live and it

0:49:49.556 --> 0:49:50.356
<v Speaker 2>sounds different.

0:49:51.116 --> 0:49:51.836
<v Speaker 1>How's it change?

0:49:52.076 --> 0:49:57.316
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's things just just sound different, you know. Yeah,

0:49:57.356 --> 0:50:00.476
<v Speaker 2>it's funny. Yeah, they're here now, and I think, well,

0:50:00.636 --> 0:50:03.796
<v Speaker 2>the bass sounds different, the drums sound different, the balance

0:50:03.916 --> 0:50:07.516
<v Speaker 2>between the guitar and the keyboard sounds different. But in

0:50:07.596 --> 0:50:10.436
<v Speaker 2>a way that's we're not it. We're not really changed

0:50:10.476 --> 0:50:14.316
<v Speaker 2>the song, you know. But yeah, it's funny. It's just

0:50:14.396 --> 0:50:17.716
<v Speaker 2>hard to explain. It just takes on a different life live.

0:50:17.796 --> 0:50:19.476
<v Speaker 1>I think, does it feel good to hear it the

0:50:19.516 --> 0:50:20.076
<v Speaker 1>original way?

0:50:20.196 --> 0:50:20.356
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

0:50:20.356 --> 0:50:21.356
<v Speaker 2>I think that's pretty good.

0:50:21.436 --> 0:50:21.636
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:50:21.956 --> 0:50:25.996
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I think we're doing some little different things

0:50:26.036 --> 0:50:29.076
<v Speaker 2>to it now. Yeah yeah. Interesting?

0:50:29.236 --> 0:50:30.996
<v Speaker 1>Is that kind of Is that worth investigating for you?

0:50:31.116 --> 0:50:31.236
<v Speaker 8>Ever?

0:50:31.396 --> 0:50:35.356
<v Speaker 1>That will have? The way a song changes live, I.

0:50:35.356 --> 0:50:37.836
<v Speaker 2>Don't know, it just sort of evolves. I Mean, one

0:50:37.876 --> 0:50:42.356
<v Speaker 2>thing I do find is that very often things get

0:50:42.436 --> 0:50:44.676
<v Speaker 2>better as a tour goes on, and you think, oh,

0:50:44.836 --> 0:50:47.756
<v Speaker 2>I wish we could record the album now. And I

0:50:47.796 --> 0:50:51.316
<v Speaker 2>actually did that once on an album called Fool for

0:50:51.396 --> 0:50:55.156
<v Speaker 2>a few years ago. That's what we actually did. Finally,

0:50:56.036 --> 0:50:58.636
<v Speaker 2>we did a one month tour where we played all

0:50:58.676 --> 0:51:02.156
<v Speaker 2>the new songs, and then the idea was wherever we

0:51:03.276 --> 0:51:05.996
<v Speaker 2>finished up, assuming it was somewhere where there was a studio,

0:51:07.876 --> 0:51:09.716
<v Speaker 2>you know, the day after the Life Our show, we

0:51:09.756 --> 0:51:12.036
<v Speaker 2>would go in the studio and record the album. It

0:51:12.036 --> 0:51:16.876
<v Speaker 2>turned out to be Boise, Idaho, which I love because

0:51:16.916 --> 0:51:19.116
<v Speaker 2>everyone was saying, what the hell are you doing recording

0:51:19.156 --> 0:51:22.756
<v Speaker 2>an album there? It's actually not a bad place. We

0:51:22.836 --> 0:51:25.916
<v Speaker 2>did the album in a week, wow, you know, did

0:51:25.996 --> 0:51:27.996
<v Speaker 2>some of the vocals later in New York and mixed

0:51:27.996 --> 0:51:30.636
<v Speaker 2>it in New York. But that was great. But it's

0:51:30.676 --> 0:51:35.356
<v Speaker 2>so logistically so hard to do that. So this album

0:51:35.476 --> 0:51:38.236
<v Speaker 2>was quite different because so we actually I did some

0:51:38.476 --> 0:51:41.836
<v Speaker 2>demos for it that turned out really well, and we

0:51:41.956 --> 0:51:44.516
<v Speaker 2>ended up using a lot of the demo tracks on it,

0:51:44.636 --> 0:51:46.836
<v Speaker 2>including some of the lead vocals, which I didn't expect,

0:51:47.316 --> 0:51:48.276
<v Speaker 2>you know, I thought I was going to have to

0:51:48.316 --> 0:51:50.636
<v Speaker 2>do them all over again. But I was listening to

0:51:50.716 --> 0:51:52.916
<v Speaker 2>them and thinking, wait a minute, I don't know how

0:51:52.956 --> 0:51:54.996
<v Speaker 2>to do this any better, so we may as well

0:51:55.076 --> 0:51:57.476
<v Speaker 2>keep it. So we saved some time. I don't like

0:51:57.556 --> 0:51:59.316
<v Speaker 2>to spend a lot of time in the studio anyway

0:52:00.276 --> 0:52:03.796
<v Speaker 2>always or just because generally I don't know. So some

0:52:03.876 --> 0:52:06.036
<v Speaker 2>of the lead vocals on there are from Yeah, the

0:52:06.156 --> 0:52:11.436
<v Speaker 2>demo vocals, that's that's amazing, but you know, I couldn't

0:52:11.476 --> 0:52:13.116
<v Speaker 2>figure out why you're do them any better.

0:52:14.116 --> 0:52:17.036
<v Speaker 1>That's great though. A lot of times I hear, you know,

0:52:17.356 --> 0:52:19.396
<v Speaker 1>people will down the line put out a demo of

0:52:19.516 --> 0:52:21.116
<v Speaker 1>a song, yeah, and.

0:52:22.076 --> 0:52:24.276
<v Speaker 2>You're here like, wow, the demo is actually.

0:52:24.036 --> 0:52:26.396
<v Speaker 1>Better than that, you know, But I think it's maybe

0:52:26.476 --> 0:52:27.676
<v Speaker 1>hard to believe that.

0:52:27.916 --> 0:52:30.956
<v Speaker 2>For something else, right, you know, But it's very interesting

0:52:31.036 --> 0:52:33.476
<v Speaker 2>of what happens sometimes if you if you don't have

0:52:33.596 --> 0:52:36.756
<v Speaker 2>much time and you've got to just get it done

0:52:37.316 --> 0:52:39.956
<v Speaker 2>and not be too fussy, and you're telling yourself, well,

0:52:39.956 --> 0:52:43.036
<v Speaker 2>it's only a demo anyway, and I guess that in

0:52:43.196 --> 0:52:46.716
<v Speaker 2>that process you're kind of relaxed in a way, but

0:52:47.476 --> 0:52:49.636
<v Speaker 2>at the same time you're not you're not wasting any time,

0:52:49.716 --> 0:52:52.236
<v Speaker 2>so you kind of, whether you realize it or not,

0:52:52.356 --> 0:52:55.556
<v Speaker 2>you're actually zeroing in on what's important, which you can

0:52:55.636 --> 0:52:58.516
<v Speaker 2>lose sight of if you've been too long in the studio,

0:52:58.516 --> 0:53:01.316
<v Speaker 2>which a lot of people do. So I think it's

0:53:01.396 --> 0:53:03.156
<v Speaker 2>quite an interesting lesson in there somewhere.

0:53:03.356 --> 0:53:11.796
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that song I'm Not Sorry musically pretty cool, Yeah,

0:53:12.596 --> 0:53:16.236
<v Speaker 1>did it. But it's cool because it's because there's an

0:53:16.276 --> 0:53:20.396
<v Speaker 1>aggressiveness to it. But then there's you know, the sort

0:53:20.436 --> 0:53:24.316
<v Speaker 1>of like Latin harmonic thing going on. And usually those

0:53:24.316 --> 0:53:29.436
<v Speaker 1>two things aren't aren't melded together. But that's that's even

0:53:29.476 --> 0:53:31.836
<v Speaker 1>in your music, those things, because there's songs that are

0:53:31.876 --> 0:53:33.876
<v Speaker 1>viewers that feel acerbic and have like a more of

0:53:33.956 --> 0:53:36.836
<v Speaker 1>a that kind of aggressive feel, and then there's songs

0:53:36.836 --> 0:53:40.836
<v Speaker 1>that are of course have had Latin grooves. But it's

0:53:41.156 --> 0:53:43.716
<v Speaker 1>it feels rare that those two things kind of converge.

0:53:44.156 --> 0:53:44.276
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:53:45.196 --> 0:53:51.276
<v Speaker 2>That's an interesting angle. I think maybe because it's it's

0:53:51.316 --> 0:53:56.196
<v Speaker 2>actually quite humorous, you know. I mean, it strikes some

0:53:56.316 --> 0:53:59.836
<v Speaker 2>people as being angry, but it's it's really more more humorous.

0:54:00.996 --> 0:54:04.356
<v Speaker 2>There's a bit of a kind of you know, deffun

0:54:04.716 --> 0:54:09.436
<v Speaker 2>attitude it. I mean, it's very different, and it's a

0:54:09.476 --> 0:54:15.036
<v Speaker 2>bit of a kind of anti cancel culture sort of idea.

0:54:16.876 --> 0:54:19.516
<v Speaker 2>You know, I quite like the idea just saying, you know,

0:54:19.716 --> 0:54:21.556
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sorry, whatever it is. If you've had some

0:54:21.756 --> 0:54:25.356
<v Speaker 2>problem with me, I'm not sorry. And there's a line

0:54:25.396 --> 0:54:29.316
<v Speaker 2>in the song that goes, don't apologize to someone who

0:54:29.396 --> 0:54:32.036
<v Speaker 2>just wants to make you their bitch. You know. It's

0:54:32.076 --> 0:54:35.436
<v Speaker 2>like the last thing you should do is apologize. So

0:54:35.716 --> 0:54:39.276
<v Speaker 2>that's that's the message, but it's I think done in

0:54:39.356 --> 0:54:42.316
<v Speaker 2>a rather humorous way rather than an angry way. There's

0:54:42.356 --> 0:54:44.516
<v Speaker 2>one song on the album I'm I'm not going to

0:54:44.516 --> 0:54:46.676
<v Speaker 2>say it's my favorite, but I'm particularly proud of in

0:54:46.956 --> 0:54:49.836
<v Speaker 2>certain ways. It's called an End of the Pier and

0:54:50.276 --> 0:54:53.156
<v Speaker 2>the idea that I had for the song, I got

0:54:53.196 --> 0:54:55.116
<v Speaker 2>to a point where I thought it's over ambitious. I

0:54:55.156 --> 0:54:58.116
<v Speaker 2>don't think I could pull this off. And I more

0:54:58.236 --> 0:55:00.716
<v Speaker 2>or less, you know, I might be exaggerating a bit,

0:55:00.796 --> 0:55:02.876
<v Speaker 2>but like shut myself in a room for a week

0:55:02.956 --> 0:55:06.756
<v Speaker 2>and you know, with a rhyming dictionary and a phosaurus,

0:55:08.316 --> 0:55:10.436
<v Speaker 2>and just worked on it and reworks it and reworks

0:55:10.436 --> 0:55:12.676
<v Speaker 2>it until I thought, wait a minute, yeah it works.

0:55:13.036 --> 0:55:15.036
<v Speaker 2>I did pull it off. Wow.

0:55:16.436 --> 0:55:17.836
<v Speaker 1>So I.

0:55:19.836 --> 0:55:21.956
<v Speaker 2>You know, if you want to know, you haven't asked.

0:55:21.996 --> 0:55:24.516
<v Speaker 2>If you want to know my favorite lyricist, there are

0:55:24.596 --> 0:55:34.076
<v Speaker 2>people like I Regressing, Johnny Mercer, Lorenz Hart, Colporter, you know,

0:55:34.636 --> 0:55:41.716
<v Speaker 2>all those guys just just the the the brilliance of

0:55:41.796 --> 0:55:45.636
<v Speaker 2>the wordplay and I just love that, you know, and

0:55:45.796 --> 0:55:51.556
<v Speaker 2>the wit I love so. I like the idea of

0:55:51.676 --> 0:55:54.356
<v Speaker 2>being a craftsman when it comes to, you know, crafting

0:55:54.396 --> 0:55:56.916
<v Speaker 2>the words of the song, even though I'm saying that

0:55:56.996 --> 0:55:59.396
<v Speaker 2>they're not as important as the music. Ultimately, I don't

0:55:59.436 --> 0:56:02.316
<v Speaker 2>think they are. It's the music that still is what

0:56:02.476 --> 0:56:03.076
<v Speaker 2>moves you. I think.

0:56:03.116 --> 0:56:05.036
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's interesting though, But those guys like Johnny Mercer

0:56:05.116 --> 0:56:08.996
<v Speaker 1>and that like they are, you know, there's a lot

0:56:09.036 --> 0:56:13.036
<v Speaker 1>of clever world but they're fairly earnest songwriters.

0:56:12.396 --> 0:56:14.796
<v Speaker 2>You know. Yeah, but they also can be very witty

0:56:14.916 --> 0:56:19.556
<v Speaker 2>and you know, very funny, which I think is really

0:56:19.636 --> 0:56:22.396
<v Speaker 2>lacking in a lot of a lot of songwriting. Yeah.

0:56:22.676 --> 0:56:24.956
<v Speaker 1>Can we talk about the Duke Ellington album that you did?

0:56:25.116 --> 0:56:26.516
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, what made you?

0:56:27.036 --> 0:56:30.036
<v Speaker 1>What brat can you do? That was about twenty twelve,

0:56:30.076 --> 0:56:32.756
<v Speaker 1>I think, yes, I think it was. You did a

0:56:32.836 --> 0:56:36.356
<v Speaker 1>Duke album. Yeah, and it's pretty cool.

0:56:36.716 --> 0:56:38.996
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm really proud of it. And it actually is

0:56:39.036 --> 0:56:44.236
<v Speaker 2>a Joe Jackson album, you know. I mean, I I

0:56:44.316 --> 0:56:47.596
<v Speaker 2>did the arrangements, I was the producer, I did the

0:56:47.756 --> 0:56:52.636
<v Speaker 2>keyboard playing, programming, I did some of the vocals. The

0:56:52.716 --> 0:56:56.556
<v Speaker 2>only thing I didn't do was write the original source material. Yeah,

0:56:56.676 --> 0:56:59.276
<v Speaker 2>you know, right, yeah, So it was now idea I

0:56:59.356 --> 0:57:00.956
<v Speaker 2>had for a long time because I'm a huge fan

0:57:01.036 --> 0:57:04.116
<v Speaker 2>of Ellington and he is. One of the reasons that

0:57:04.596 --> 0:57:06.556
<v Speaker 2>he's inspiring to me is because of the way that

0:57:06.996 --> 0:57:10.996
<v Speaker 2>he constantly reworked his own material, different versions of his

0:57:11.076 --> 0:57:14.316
<v Speaker 2>own songs, which I've always done. It's one of the

0:57:14.396 --> 0:57:16.996
<v Speaker 2>things that keeps things interesting, you know, touring after so

0:57:17.116 --> 0:57:17.836
<v Speaker 2>many years.

0:57:18.076 --> 0:57:19.876
<v Speaker 1>Even the classic to take the A Train, it's like

0:57:19.916 --> 0:57:22.156
<v Speaker 1>there's yeah, there's many versions.

0:57:21.876 --> 0:57:25.996
<v Speaker 2>Yea, many versions of everything. For a long time, I'd

0:57:26.036 --> 0:57:28.476
<v Speaker 2>had ideas about what you could do this Ellington tune

0:57:28.516 --> 0:57:32.596
<v Speaker 2>with this kind of nomraigement whatever, And I can't remember

0:57:32.796 --> 0:57:34.196
<v Speaker 2>at what point I said, you know, I want to

0:57:34.316 --> 0:57:38.796
<v Speaker 2>try and do a whole project of this. And then

0:57:38.836 --> 0:57:41.796
<v Speaker 2>I started to make some rules for myself, because this

0:57:41.876 --> 0:57:43.636
<v Speaker 2>is one of the things you have to do to

0:57:43.756 --> 0:57:46.996
<v Speaker 2>create anything, is to set limits. You can't be limitless,

0:57:47.116 --> 0:57:50.436
<v Speaker 2>you know, it doesn't work. So one of my rules

0:57:50.636 --> 0:57:54.276
<v Speaker 2>was no horns, because I mean, I want to pay

0:57:54.356 --> 0:57:58.196
<v Speaker 2>tribute to Ellington, not compete with answer, right, So there's

0:57:58.236 --> 0:58:02.156
<v Speaker 2>no horns, and none of the songs have a traditional

0:58:02.356 --> 0:58:06.076
<v Speaker 2>swing rhythm, you know, so they're all different grooves and

0:58:06.156 --> 0:58:07.316
<v Speaker 2>different kinds of sounds.

0:58:08.396 --> 0:58:10.276
<v Speaker 1>Was that a struggle playing to the rhythm session that

0:58:10.356 --> 0:58:12.716
<v Speaker 1>you're going to play some tunes naturally?

0:58:13.436 --> 0:58:19.756
<v Speaker 2>No, which is crazy to say, Yeah, but that was

0:58:19.836 --> 0:58:23.276
<v Speaker 2>the whole idea. And sometimes if you give yourself the guidelines,

0:58:23.436 --> 0:58:28.236
<v Speaker 2>that's actually inspiring. It's not limiting. You know, it opens

0:58:28.356 --> 0:58:33.596
<v Speaker 2>up possibilities. You know, seems contradictory, but it doesn't close

0:58:33.636 --> 0:58:38.196
<v Speaker 2>down possibilities. And so I found myself of thinking, well,

0:58:38.516 --> 0:58:41.956
<v Speaker 2>what other directions could we take this? I mean, Caravan,

0:58:42.076 --> 0:58:45.116
<v Speaker 2>for instance, is sung by sus Sandy Him who's a

0:58:45.316 --> 0:58:50.796
<v Speaker 2>singer from Iran, and as she did the translation of

0:58:50.836 --> 0:58:56.236
<v Speaker 2>the lyrics into Farsi. So you know, I thought that

0:58:56.396 --> 0:58:58.196
<v Speaker 2>was such a cool idea. I mean, no one had

0:58:58.236 --> 0:58:59.996
<v Speaker 2>done that, but it seemed to me, in a way

0:59:00.036 --> 0:59:04.596
<v Speaker 2>an obvious thing to do. And again, Perdido, I had

0:59:04.636 --> 0:59:07.316
<v Speaker 2>this idea of it having a kind of Brazilian groove.

0:59:07.556 --> 0:59:09.636
<v Speaker 2>And there was a band from Holland I really like

0:59:09.716 --> 0:59:13.396
<v Speaker 2>called Zuko one oh three with a Brazilian singer Lillian Vera,

0:59:14.476 --> 0:59:17.676
<v Speaker 2>who also did the translation into Portuguese of the lyrics.

0:59:17.716 --> 0:59:20.716
<v Speaker 2>You know, So so it was like let's just try

0:59:21.076 --> 0:59:23.196
<v Speaker 2>just doing all kinds of different things with Ellington that

0:59:23.236 --> 0:59:27.316
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been done before, and different kinds of grooves using

0:59:27.436 --> 0:59:32.396
<v Speaker 2>electric guitar and electric violin and and just you're getting

0:59:32.436 --> 0:59:36.076
<v Speaker 2>away from the horns. And I think it turned out great,

0:59:36.116 --> 0:59:38.516
<v Speaker 2>and I'm very, very proud of the album. Actually, yeah,

0:59:38.836 --> 0:59:40.276
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure a lot of people didn't quite know what

0:59:40.356 --> 0:59:42.316
<v Speaker 2>to make of it, but there you go.

0:59:42.476 --> 0:59:44.996
<v Speaker 1>I think that's fine. It kind of reminded there was

0:59:45.396 --> 0:59:47.956
<v Speaker 1>like Mingus at some point put out an album where

0:59:47.956 --> 0:59:50.956
<v Speaker 1>he was like a lot of his sort of more

0:59:51.036 --> 0:59:52.996
<v Speaker 1>well known tunes, but there was like you know, with

0:59:53.276 --> 0:59:56.996
<v Speaker 1>with a band that was not really fit, not not fit,

0:59:57.156 --> 0:59:58.636
<v Speaker 1>but now she would think, you know, it was like

0:59:59.796 --> 1:00:02.756
<v Speaker 1>there was like a I think it was in the

1:00:02.836 --> 1:00:04.356
<v Speaker 1>mid seventies, and there was like a bit of a

1:00:04.396 --> 1:00:07.436
<v Speaker 1>shredder of a guitar player doing like pork you know,

1:00:07.476 --> 1:00:10.916
<v Speaker 1>good bye porn and things. It's like, yeah, it was

1:00:10.996 --> 1:00:13.516
<v Speaker 1>kind of kind of like defamed the songs, but in yeah,

1:00:13.756 --> 1:00:16.196
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, you know, critically defamed the songs. But it's

1:00:16.236 --> 1:00:19.916
<v Speaker 1>kind of interesting. You know, let's you hear jazz in

1:00:19.956 --> 1:00:22.756
<v Speaker 1>this kind of interesting modern context, right and putting caravan

1:00:22.876 --> 1:00:26.796
<v Speaker 1>back in like into like a Middle Eastern sort of context.

1:00:26.916 --> 1:00:29.636
<v Speaker 1>Is interesting too, because that's obviously the inspiration for the

1:00:29.756 --> 1:00:34.556
<v Speaker 1>melody and things as it driven you crazy that I mean,

1:00:34.596 --> 1:00:38.756
<v Speaker 1>I feel like for a lot of years, a lot

1:00:38.796 --> 1:00:43.956
<v Speaker 1>of decades, you've you've been ducking into jazz, yeah, and

1:00:44.236 --> 1:00:48.076
<v Speaker 1>making like really great records based around jazz tunes or

1:00:48.156 --> 1:00:52.596
<v Speaker 1>jazz arrangements, and it doesn't stick in the sense of

1:00:52.596 --> 1:00:54.956
<v Speaker 1>when people think Joe Jackson, they don't necessarily think jazzy.

1:00:55.516 --> 1:00:59.076
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a jazz musician. I'm a jazz fan, and

1:00:59.236 --> 1:01:01.716
<v Speaker 2>I can fake it a bit. I can play decent

1:01:01.836 --> 1:01:04.596
<v Speaker 2>jazz piano, but I'm not gonna, you know, go up

1:01:04.636 --> 1:01:09.396
<v Speaker 2>against the people who devote their whole lives to playing

1:01:09.476 --> 1:01:12.716
<v Speaker 2>jazz piano, you know what I mean. So yeah, I'm

1:01:12.956 --> 1:01:16.436
<v Speaker 2>I'm a I'm a jazz fan, and I like bringing

1:01:16.476 --> 1:01:19.676
<v Speaker 2>in different influences and seeing what you can fit with

1:01:20.276 --> 1:01:22.356
<v Speaker 2>what other you know, which pieces of the jigsaw you

1:01:22.436 --> 1:01:25.076
<v Speaker 2>can fit to which other pieces. I mean, I think

1:01:25.116 --> 1:01:28.476
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of what I do. You know, I don't

1:01:29.596 --> 1:01:35.476
<v Speaker 2>I can't really staying in a very specific genre. And

1:01:35.596 --> 1:01:37.916
<v Speaker 2>it's not a decision, you know, it's just the way

1:01:37.956 --> 1:01:41.196
<v Speaker 2>it comes out. The way it comes out comes from

1:01:41.236 --> 1:01:44.236
<v Speaker 2>who you are, and you know, so I'm just someone

1:01:44.276 --> 1:01:48.916
<v Speaker 2>who's had very very broad musical experience and interest, and

1:01:50.076 --> 1:01:52.876
<v Speaker 2>so what interests me is is finding ways to put

1:01:52.916 --> 1:01:58.556
<v Speaker 2>these different things together in a way that works. That's yeah,

1:01:58.596 --> 1:02:00.956
<v Speaker 2>I mean that probably sums it up as good as anything.

1:02:01.716 --> 1:02:04.276
<v Speaker 1>It feels like I feel, it feels like a good

1:02:04.276 --> 1:02:06.196
<v Speaker 1>summation of all the most of your work, you know.

1:02:06.956 --> 1:02:08.716
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's it's almost it's kind of like

1:02:08.796 --> 1:02:11.756
<v Speaker 2>being a co largist rather than a portrait painter or

1:02:11.796 --> 1:02:14.156
<v Speaker 2>a landscape pounds paint or something like that. Maybe.

1:02:14.476 --> 1:02:18.676
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So you're twelve dates and doing eighty date tour.

1:02:18.796 --> 1:02:20.396
<v Speaker 1>Roughly twelve dates and an eighty date tour.

1:02:20.876 --> 1:02:23.476
<v Speaker 2>I think if if you put the North American tour

1:02:23.516 --> 1:02:26.436
<v Speaker 2>or Europeans altogether, it's about eighty shows. Yeah, I think

1:02:26.476 --> 1:02:28.396
<v Speaker 2>we're about twelve shows in point.

1:02:28.676 --> 1:02:29.756
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I feel dancing.

1:02:32.036 --> 1:02:34.796
<v Speaker 2>If I thought about it, it probably would try not

1:02:34.916 --> 1:02:37.556
<v Speaker 2>to think about it. I mean, really it sounds cheesy,

1:02:37.636 --> 1:02:39.316
<v Speaker 2>but on the road it's just you have to just

1:02:39.396 --> 1:02:42.356
<v Speaker 2>concentrate on today. But you just think about today. I

1:02:42.356 --> 1:02:44.196
<v Speaker 2>don't think about the gigs. We already did or what

1:02:44.276 --> 1:02:47.916
<v Speaker 2>we're doing tomorrow. It's just really concentrate on today and

1:02:48.756 --> 1:02:51.796
<v Speaker 2>it's going great, and it's we're at that kind of

1:02:51.836 --> 1:02:54.196
<v Speaker 2>magic point of the tour where we got over some

1:02:54.316 --> 1:02:57.196
<v Speaker 2>of the initial nerves and glitches and so on, and

1:02:57.316 --> 1:03:00.356
<v Speaker 2>we're really enjoying it and it's just getting better.

1:03:00.676 --> 1:03:04.836
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. Yeah. Do you what makes a good show

1:03:04.876 --> 1:03:05.076
<v Speaker 1>for you?

1:03:05.196 --> 1:03:05.236
<v Speaker 3>Like?

1:03:05.276 --> 1:03:05.876
<v Speaker 2>Do you feel like it?

1:03:07.196 --> 1:03:09.596
<v Speaker 1>How do you what makes a good show for versus

1:03:09.676 --> 1:03:10.156
<v Speaker 1>a bad show?

1:03:10.796 --> 1:03:12.556
<v Speaker 2>Well? I think it goes with that saying that it

1:03:13.156 --> 1:03:15.436
<v Speaker 2>would be a show where I feel like I performed

1:03:15.476 --> 1:03:17.716
<v Speaker 2>well and the band performed well and we didn't screw

1:03:17.796 --> 1:03:21.476
<v Speaker 2>everything up. But beyond that, it's just something you can't define.

1:03:21.476 --> 1:03:24.516
<v Speaker 2>It's magic. It really is magic. It's something that happens

1:03:24.596 --> 1:03:29.356
<v Speaker 2>between between the band and the audience and everyone and

1:03:30.676 --> 1:03:35.996
<v Speaker 2>some nights it's just it's magic. I can't explain it

1:03:35.996 --> 1:03:38.396
<v Speaker 2>any better than that, and that's why it's great.

1:03:40.156 --> 1:03:41.676
<v Speaker 1>Do you do you have to think about the audience

1:03:41.716 --> 1:03:42.516
<v Speaker 1>in terms of set list?

1:03:42.556 --> 1:03:46.116
<v Speaker 2>Do you do? Oh? Yeah, I try to be as

1:03:46.156 --> 1:03:49.436
<v Speaker 2>objective as I possibly can. But how will this come across,

1:03:50.276 --> 1:03:52.836
<v Speaker 2>you know, to someone sitting in the you know, the

1:03:53.236 --> 1:03:56.356
<v Speaker 2>twentieth Rowe. I'm always thinking like that.

1:03:56.756 --> 1:04:01.676
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. I'm excited to come out tomorrow smart.

1:04:01.796 --> 1:04:02.236
<v Speaker 2>I believe that.

1:04:02.436 --> 1:04:04.196
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, tomorrow, they see you guys.

1:04:04.876 --> 1:04:08.316
<v Speaker 2>Great. Yeah, it should be good. That's a good venue,

1:04:09.156 --> 1:04:11.476
<v Speaker 2>played a couple of times before, so it should be good.

1:04:11.676 --> 1:04:16.396
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited. Man. Quite a different attitude on I'm Not

1:04:16.476 --> 1:04:18.196
<v Speaker 1>Sorry that on Battleground.

1:04:18.316 --> 1:04:21.756
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh god. Yeah, well that's one of those songs

1:04:21.756 --> 1:04:25.036
<v Speaker 2>I'd rather forget big.

1:04:25.956 --> 1:04:28.796
<v Speaker 1>Was it ernest at the time or was at the time,

1:04:28.916 --> 1:04:29.476
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I.

1:04:29.516 --> 1:04:33.076
<v Speaker 2>Guess it was. But so that was a that was well,

1:04:33.116 --> 1:04:35.036
<v Speaker 2>you dragged it out of me, know that. That's one

1:04:35.076 --> 1:04:36.556
<v Speaker 2>of the albums that I don't think is one of

1:04:36.636 --> 1:04:39.276
<v Speaker 2>my best. Was Beat Crazy because the first two albums

1:04:39.276 --> 1:04:45.036
<v Speaker 2>are basically the same album. You know, Really Be Crazy

1:04:45.236 --> 1:04:46.876
<v Speaker 2>was kind of like trying to mix it up and

1:04:46.956 --> 1:04:49.236
<v Speaker 2>do something a bit different, but without really quite knowing

1:04:49.996 --> 1:04:51.836
<v Speaker 2>where I was going. So it's a bit of a

1:04:51.916 --> 1:04:55.876
<v Speaker 2>confused album. I think he's got some interesting ideas on it,

1:04:56.316 --> 1:04:59.476
<v Speaker 2>you know, some good bits, but I don't think it

1:04:59.556 --> 1:05:01.956
<v Speaker 2>worked very well. I think that was probably another reason

1:05:01.996 --> 1:05:05.156
<v Speaker 2>why when Dave the Drummer wanted to leave that I

1:05:05.316 --> 1:05:09.876
<v Speaker 2>decided to kind of just break out the band and

1:05:09.996 --> 1:05:11.836
<v Speaker 2>rethink rather than just kind of carry on.

1:05:12.236 --> 1:05:14.276
<v Speaker 1>You realized it wasn't gonna that was broken. I wasn't

1:05:14.316 --> 1:05:17.076
<v Speaker 1>gonna get better in that form. Yeah, at least at

1:05:17.076 --> 1:05:17.476
<v Speaker 1>that point.

1:05:17.516 --> 1:05:20.436
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we we got back together again twenty years

1:05:20.476 --> 1:05:23.436
<v Speaker 2>later or whatever it was to do the four album,

1:05:23.876 --> 1:05:26.516
<v Speaker 2>which was actually the best album we've made as a band.

1:05:26.596 --> 1:05:28.596
<v Speaker 2>I think it's a good album. You know, it's a

1:05:28.636 --> 1:05:31.356
<v Speaker 2>good it does. I mean, it's just it could you

1:05:31.436 --> 1:05:34.116
<v Speaker 2>can't compete with nostalgia. That's the thing. I mean a

1:05:34.196 --> 1:05:36.236
<v Speaker 2>lot of people said, well it's good, but although it's

1:05:36.276 --> 1:05:39.036
<v Speaker 2>not as good as look sharp though, you know, well, yeah,

1:05:39.836 --> 1:05:42.436
<v Speaker 2>they don't want it to be. That's good in a way.

1:05:42.596 --> 1:05:44.756
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's hard, Like you say, it's hard, just

1:05:45.036 --> 1:05:46.876
<v Speaker 1>too many memories built up.

1:05:46.876 --> 1:05:49.556
<v Speaker 2>And you can't compete with that. But I mean as

1:05:49.596 --> 1:05:52.516
<v Speaker 2>an album of songs and the playing the band was,

1:05:53.076 --> 1:05:55.596
<v Speaker 2>you know, playing much better. And I think it's a

1:05:55.636 --> 1:05:56.076
<v Speaker 2>good album.

1:05:56.356 --> 1:05:58.596
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, we hold on, We'll hold on, We'll play

1:06:01.196 --> 1:06:03.596
<v Speaker 1>I guess do do do y fabulous people?

1:06:05.236 --> 1:06:06.076
<v Speaker 2>That's good.

1:06:13.996 --> 1:06:16.436
<v Speaker 1>This is why I shout and making instead over. I

1:06:16.636 --> 1:06:17.716
<v Speaker 1>was taking my time.

1:06:17.756 --> 1:06:18.676
<v Speaker 4>I've joked in the bag.

1:06:20.636 --> 1:06:21.996
<v Speaker 1>This is why they're using bacon.

1:06:22.316 --> 1:06:25.276
<v Speaker 8>The kind of stuff is making me fatter about the day,

1:06:27.556 --> 1:06:31.276
<v Speaker 8>right right right, Coming from the song.

1:06:34.196 --> 1:06:39.276
<v Speaker 1>I grave and then I'm not avery one.

1:06:42.116 --> 1:06:44.596
<v Speaker 6>We're out of the from the mirror. It's getting out

1:06:44.636 --> 1:06:46.116
<v Speaker 6>of a clearer They.

1:06:45.836 --> 1:06:46.876
<v Speaker 2>Saying is to laugh.

1:06:48.796 --> 1:06:50.956
<v Speaker 1>This is the place I'm stuck with. I wish you

1:06:51.076 --> 1:06:57.236
<v Speaker 1>lots of luck with your iPhones over the grass, Yeah,

1:06:57.236 --> 1:06:58.876
<v Speaker 1>I think again, written.

1:07:00.156 --> 1:07:03.276
<v Speaker 2>Chicily. Yeah, I mean that's a really silly song. Yeah,

1:07:03.756 --> 1:07:08.676
<v Speaker 2>it actually came came to me in a dream. Doesn't

1:07:08.716 --> 1:07:11.196
<v Speaker 2>that sound like the pretentious artists. I woke up one

1:07:11.236 --> 1:07:14.676
<v Speaker 2>morning and I head, oh, do do do do? Dude

1:07:14.676 --> 1:07:15.916
<v Speaker 2>are stuck in my head and I thought, what the

1:07:15.956 --> 1:07:18.996
<v Speaker 2>hell is that? That's really dopey, but it's stuck with me,

1:07:19.116 --> 1:07:21.836
<v Speaker 2>and I thought, maybe it's a really silly song and

1:07:21.916 --> 1:07:23.956
<v Speaker 2>what the hell is it? And then I thought, do

1:07:24.196 --> 1:07:27.476
<v Speaker 2>ray Me. Oh, I wouldn't if I could do a

1:07:27.556 --> 1:07:31.396
<v Speaker 2>dough ray me song. That's different too, but use different

1:07:31.476 --> 1:07:34.956
<v Speaker 2>rhymes and you know meanings to dough a deer a

1:07:35.076 --> 1:07:38.796
<v Speaker 2>female deer, right, So it's a dough ray me song.

1:07:39.076 --> 1:07:41.116
<v Speaker 2>And it was just have fun with the words with

1:07:41.236 --> 1:07:45.716
<v Speaker 2>the wordplay and just do something really really silly and

1:07:45.956 --> 1:07:47.716
<v Speaker 2>it's funny. A friend of mine listened to it and

1:07:47.796 --> 1:07:49.516
<v Speaker 2>he said, this says like it could be a kids

1:07:49.596 --> 1:07:52.476
<v Speaker 2>song written for kids. That never occurred to me. I

1:07:52.556 --> 1:07:56.516
<v Speaker 2>don't have kids, And I thought that's interesting thought. And

1:07:56.636 --> 1:07:58.716
<v Speaker 2>I thought about it, and I could not have written

1:07:58.796 --> 1:08:00.796
<v Speaker 2>this song but when I was back when I was

1:08:00.836 --> 1:08:03.476
<v Speaker 2>in my twenties, because I was too serious like so

1:08:03.636 --> 1:08:06.676
<v Speaker 2>many young people, you know, you take yourself way too seriously,

1:08:06.796 --> 1:08:09.556
<v Speaker 2>and you're in your twenties. So I had to you know,

1:08:09.636 --> 1:08:12.316
<v Speaker 2>all this time had to go by for me to

1:08:12.396 --> 1:08:15.436
<v Speaker 2>be able to write a kid's song, which is kind

1:08:15.476 --> 1:08:15.916
<v Speaker 2>of interesting.

1:08:15.996 --> 1:08:17.676
<v Speaker 1>It's great some of the some of the best kids

1:08:17.716 --> 1:08:21.836
<v Speaker 1>songs aren't necessarily written, yeah, you know, for kids. It's

1:08:21.876 --> 1:08:23.476
<v Speaker 1>not like, you know, I don't think there's like a

1:08:23.596 --> 1:08:25.116
<v Speaker 1>great kids song.

1:08:25.916 --> 1:08:26.116
<v Speaker 5>You know.

1:08:26.956 --> 1:08:28.356
<v Speaker 2>Actually I'd never really thought about it.

1:08:28.436 --> 1:08:30.436
<v Speaker 1>But so it's like Randy Newman might be one of

1:08:30.476 --> 1:08:32.236
<v Speaker 1>the more successful ones in modern times, but it's like

1:08:32.276 --> 1:08:35.156
<v Speaker 1>it's not like he's specifically ever thought of himself someone

1:08:35.236 --> 1:08:36.156
<v Speaker 1>write songs.

1:08:35.876 --> 1:08:39.916
<v Speaker 2>For kids, you know, just that it's funny. I mean,

1:08:39.916 --> 1:08:43.036
<v Speaker 2>I thought it had a place on the album that

1:08:43.156 --> 1:08:45.396
<v Speaker 2>there was a place in the office, something just really

1:08:45.476 --> 1:08:49.396
<v Speaker 2>completely silly and yeah, you know, just humorous. And it

1:08:49.516 --> 1:08:53.676
<v Speaker 2>doesn't it doesn't mean anything really, it's just wordplay, having

1:08:53.756 --> 1:08:54.516
<v Speaker 2>fun with words.

1:08:54.876 --> 1:08:58.236
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, although I said that there must be there's

1:08:58.316 --> 1:09:03.516
<v Speaker 1>probably something like, you know, like there's some dissatisfaction with Yeah.

1:09:03.356 --> 1:09:06.116
<v Speaker 2>There's a sort of self deprecating thing about it. I

1:09:06.236 --> 1:09:08.556
<v Speaker 2>was trying to think of all the different meanings of

1:09:08.596 --> 1:09:12.676
<v Speaker 2>these sounds. Do ray me far? You know, Yeah, it's

1:09:12.756 --> 1:09:15.476
<v Speaker 2>just fun to write. It's fun to play with me,

1:09:15.636 --> 1:09:17.436
<v Speaker 2>me me when I look in the mirror, you know,

1:09:17.916 --> 1:09:24.116
<v Speaker 2>oh my god. So it's like making fun of myself

1:09:24.436 --> 1:09:26.516
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of ways and just just having a

1:09:26.596 --> 1:09:29.196
<v Speaker 2>bit of fun. So it balances some of the more

1:09:29.236 --> 1:09:31.356
<v Speaker 2>serious moments on the album, although I do think it's

1:09:31.436 --> 1:09:33.196
<v Speaker 2>generally a pretty upbeat album.

1:09:33.356 --> 1:09:35.996
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, do you do you feel like? Do you ever?

1:09:36.156 --> 1:09:39.036
<v Speaker 1>Do you ever That's maybe a bad way of phrasing it,

1:09:39.196 --> 1:09:42.276
<v Speaker 1>but do you ever wish your band had been more

1:09:42.316 --> 1:09:44.316
<v Speaker 1>of a band in terms of not having your name

1:09:44.396 --> 1:09:44.596
<v Speaker 1>on it?

1:09:45.996 --> 1:09:48.236
<v Speaker 2>No? I wish to be really really glad that it

1:09:48.396 --> 1:09:52.476
<v Speaker 2>wasn't that. Okay, yeah, because I don't get stuck with that,

1:09:55.876 --> 1:09:57.316
<v Speaker 2>you know, Well, I like so and so, but I

1:09:57.476 --> 1:10:01.516
<v Speaker 2>like X the band you know better, right, they cannot

1:10:02.036 --> 1:10:03.996
<v Speaker 2>they cannot throw that at me because it's always just

1:10:04.076 --> 1:10:05.836
<v Speaker 2>been I always felt like, no, I'm just going to

1:10:05.876 --> 1:10:08.396
<v Speaker 2>take responsibility for myself. It's not going to be a

1:10:08.436 --> 1:10:11.596
<v Speaker 2>band name and then I have to change it or

1:10:11.676 --> 1:10:15.396
<v Speaker 2>try to live it down or whatever. You know. I

1:10:15.476 --> 1:10:17.596
<v Speaker 2>think that was the right decision in the first place.

1:10:17.756 --> 1:10:22.036
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's uh. I'm happy to hear it, man, And

1:10:22.116 --> 1:10:24.436
<v Speaker 1>thanks for all the music over the years, you know,

1:10:24.516 --> 1:10:25.516
<v Speaker 1>even the ones you don't like.

1:10:25.756 --> 1:10:31.436
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's all right. It's a good album, right, some

1:10:31.556 --> 1:10:34.516
<v Speaker 2>good ideas on anything it does. I mean, I quite

1:10:34.556 --> 1:10:39.396
<v Speaker 2>like the title track. Yeah, that's kind of fun. We

1:10:39.476 --> 1:10:41.676
<v Speaker 2>thought about reviving it for this tour because somehow I

1:10:41.716 --> 1:10:43.636
<v Speaker 2>haven't done it. We may do, who knows.

1:10:44.196 --> 1:10:45.956
<v Speaker 1>If you can add that or oh well, you know,

1:10:46.436 --> 1:10:51.876
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, I've made my ma. Well great, nice to

1:10:51.916 --> 1:10:57.716
<v Speaker 1>meet you man, Thank you it too. In the episode description,

1:10:57.836 --> 1:10:59.516
<v Speaker 1>you'll find a linked to playlist of some of our

1:10:59.556 --> 1:11:02.476
<v Speaker 1>favorite songs from Joe Jackson. Be sure to check out

1:11:02.516 --> 1:11:05.356
<v Speaker 1>YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see all

1:11:05.396 --> 1:11:07.676
<v Speaker 1>around the news, and be sure to follow us on

1:11:07.796 --> 1:11:10.916
<v Speaker 1>Instagram at the Broken recod Broken Record is produced and

1:11:11.076 --> 1:11:13.636
<v Speaker 1>edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler

1:11:13.716 --> 1:11:17.716
<v Speaker 1>and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Pollinay. Broken Record

1:11:17.796 --> 1:11:20.436
<v Speaker 1>is production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show

1:11:20.636 --> 1:11:24.276
<v Speaker 1>and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin

1:11:24.316 --> 1:11:27.076
<v Speaker 1>Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and

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1:11:33.156 --> 1:11:35.316
<v Speaker 1>like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review

1:11:35.396 --> 1:11:38.156
<v Speaker 1>us on your podcast app. Our theme music expec. Kenny Beats,

1:11:38.316 --> 1:11:39.276
<v Speaker 1>I'm justin Richmond.