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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Joe Jackson is an enigma. He showed up in

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Speaker 1: seventy eight seventy nine on the UK's new wave scene,

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Speaker 1: all nervous energy and biting wit with hits like is

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Speaker 1: she really going out with him, putting him in the

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Speaker 1: same conversation as Elvis Costello and Squeeze. But where a

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Speaker 1: lot of his peers stayed in that lane, Jackson kept

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Speaker 1: moving into the jump blue swing of Jump and Jive,

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Speaker 1: into the sophisticated, Latin tinged jazz sounds on night and day,

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Speaker 1: into classical composition, into a music hall concept album under

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Speaker 1: an alter ego named Max Champion, and so much more.

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Speaker 1: He's rarely made the same record twice, and that restlessness

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Speaker 1: has probably cost him the kind of mainstream consistency that

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Speaker 1: turns an artist into a household name. But I can't

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Speaker 1: help but love the boldness of his approach, even if

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Speaker 1: it's made him, over the course of his career, a

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Speaker 1: little unknowable to fans. I was hoping by the end

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Speaker 1: of a conversation he might be a little more knowable,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if that really happened, but I

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Speaker 1: do think I have a bit of a better sense

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Speaker 1: as to why He's maintained a sense of mystery throughout

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Speaker 1: his career, and really, I think it's because he just

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Speaker 1: doesn't take himself all that seriously. On today's episode, I

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Speaker 1: speak with Joe Jackson about his new studio album, Hope

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Speaker 1: and Fury and dig into some of the songwriting on

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Speaker 1: it and some of his older albums. Plus, we discussed

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Speaker 1: Joe's collaboration with his longtime, criminally underrated bass player Graham Maybe,

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Speaker 1: and get into what makes comedy an important part of

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Speaker 1: Joe's artistic sensibility. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.

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Speaker 1: Here's my interview with Joe Jackson from Amazon Music Studio

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Speaker 1: one twenty six grow Back.

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Speaker 2: I forgot we did this question.

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Speaker 1: This is pretty cool, amazing.

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Speaker 3: Don't ask you want to think of you and I'm

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Speaker 3: not give the answer.

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Speaker 4: That you want.

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Speaker 5: Mazing.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I've got this girl. Huh.

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Speaker 1: Such a great writ I don't even want to turn

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Speaker 1: it off.

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Speaker 2: Let me kurd light upould do it. I think he's thinking.

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Speaker 6: And we're not talking to God.

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Speaker 3: A little stay sister, find me to be your guy.

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Speaker 3: Don't ask you want to think of you and I'm

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Speaker 3: not give the answer that you want me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I'll want to break it out. You gotta

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Speaker 5: do it, it's all. Yeah, damn, it's weird. It's weird

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Speaker 5: that you it's kind of strange that you picked that

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Speaker 5: one that you did that.

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Speaker 2: I always thought it could have been written about me,

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Speaker 2: because like, I can't sing, I ain't pretty, and my

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Speaker 2: legs are thin, so you know that fits. Yeah, I'd

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Speaker 2: completely forgotten we did the version of that. Actually it's

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Speaker 2: but it sort of has this Afro Cuban vibe going

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Speaker 2: through it. So, I mean, if I ever do a

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Speaker 2: cover version of something, it's because I can see a

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Speaker 2: way to do it it's different to the original version. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't see any point in that.

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Speaker 1: So you see, you definitely sense a way to do

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Speaker 1: it different, But there's also probably something about it you

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Speaker 1: sense that must feel familiar in some way or feel

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Speaker 1: like it it fits also.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose. So yeah, it's more about you know,

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Speaker 2: can I see a different way to do it that's interesting?

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Speaker 2: And can I can I sing it and actually capable

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Speaker 2: of singing it? I mean that was hard to sing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, did you know that song from uh from one

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Speaker 1: of First Way Back?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean it wasn't something that's Uh, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't I don't know. It's just I guess maybe

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Speaker 2: I heard it on a radio somewhere or something and

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Speaker 2: thought I could see a way.

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Speaker 1: To do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember. Now. It's kind of like a

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Speaker 2: last Fleetwood Mac classic, you know. Yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 2: not what you think of when you think of Fleetwood makes.

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Speaker 1: No not for a long time. It hasn't wrote. But

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Speaker 1: Peter Green, who wrote that, was the you know, leading

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Speaker 1: the band at the time. He did have a I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I'm just spacing this based on

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Speaker 1: Santana taking or doing or a Black Magic Woman. Oh

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Speaker 1: oh right, yeah, I was gonna say, oh, come on

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Speaker 1: by t by doing Black Magic Woman, which you wrote.

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Speaker 1: But I would feel like he had a bit of

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Speaker 1: a Latin flair.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Something. No, No, okay, you certainly do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm a Latin music not Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When did that start?

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you exactly because I was in London in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight something like that. It was around the

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Speaker 2: time that I recorded my first album, Yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: went into a second hand record shop. I saw this

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Speaker 2: speed up LP. It was called Salsa Live by the

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Speaker 2: Fania All stars, and I was intrigued by it because

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Speaker 2: the cover art was a painting of Latin musicians standing

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Speaker 2: on the platform in the New York subway. And this

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Speaker 2: was in the seventies, and all the trains are covered

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Speaker 2: in graffiti and stuff, and they looked like gangsters, you know,

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Speaker 2: with their instrument cases and like big broad brimmed hats

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Speaker 2: and stuff. And I thought, this looks really cool, and

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Speaker 2: I took it home, listened to it, and I couldn't

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Speaker 2: make sense of it. I couldn't understand the rhythms. They

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Speaker 2: were alien to me. I was so fascinated by it.

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Speaker 2: I started reaching out to everyone I knew in London,

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Speaker 2: all the musicians I knew in London, Does anyone know

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Speaker 2: any Latin percussionists, any Latin musicians who can kind of

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Speaker 2: teach me about this music. And managed to find a

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Speaker 2: couple of people, and that's where it started. And then

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Speaker 2: when I got to New York, one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I was most interested in was the Latin music scene.

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Speaker 2: And so, you know, the first tours I ever did

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Speaker 2: in the US, we would always be sort of based

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Speaker 2: in New York and we would have days off, you know,

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Speaker 2: like the early eighties and I would be going to

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Speaker 2: Latin gigs wow, and most of my band and crew

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Speaker 2: they wanted to go to CBGB's you know, which is

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Speaker 2: great too, right, And they didn't get it at all.

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Speaker 2: They thought it was crazy. But it was an amazing

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Speaker 2: time for Latin music in New York. It was such

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Speaker 2: a vibrant scene. I just loved it.

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Speaker 1: Where would you go at that time for Latin music?

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Speaker 2: If you remember, there was I mean I would go

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Speaker 2: to places like the Corso Latin Bore Room one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty fifth Street. And then there was a thing

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Speaker 2: called Salsa meets Jazz Monday Nights at the Village Gate

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Speaker 2: in Greenwich Village, which was amazing. They would have a

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Speaker 2: couple of the top Latin bands in the city and

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Speaker 2: then they would have guest jazz soloists playing with them,

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Speaker 2: people like Stanley Turrentine and nat Adalie and you know,

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Speaker 2: like really great players. That was incredible. I went every week.

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Speaker 1: That's why I loved it. I never heard those guys

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Speaker 1: do anything Latin. And you know, I can recall you know,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty yeah, yeah, pretty think of him as being

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Speaker 1: pretty smooth in terms of pretty soulful player.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but there would also be people like

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Speaker 2: Pachito de Rivera, who's both Latin and a great jazz player,

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Speaker 2: you know. Yea, But I saw so many great artists there.

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Speaker 2: I mean everyone who was Ray Bareto was my favorite.

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Speaker 2: I saw so many gigs. Barretto always had the greatest band.

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Speaker 2: It was so exciting. Yeah, I couldn't understand why my

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Speaker 2: peers were not into this music. Yeah, was anyway?

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Speaker 1: Was there ever? I'm trying to. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: it didn't really come around in popular music until like

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Speaker 1: Miami Sound Machine or something.

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Speaker 2: You know, probably you got a bit of it with Santana,

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Speaker 2: I guess, But yeah, whose brother actually not a thing

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Speaker 2: about Yes, brother was in a band that I think

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Speaker 2: was signed of Fanya. Uh his brother was I think

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Speaker 2: in that group, uh Mallow or something, And I think

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Speaker 2: I think they were signed to Find You. But they

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Speaker 2: were like more they were kind of like Santana, but

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Speaker 2: even more like kind of more down the Latin.

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Speaker 1: Rock niche than even Santana was. You know, But nothing

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Speaker 1: from but find You didn't seem to really get too

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Speaker 1: much traction in mainstream music, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, uh, yeah, if if you see mainstream

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Speaker 2: as being Anglo American pop rock, which was most people did.

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Speaker 1: But it is, but I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, when I first started living

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Speaker 2: in New York in the eighties, I was going to

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Speaker 2: Latin gigs and jazz gigs all the time, and that,

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Speaker 2: to me was the sound of New York, you know,

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Speaker 2: to me it was it was a Latin and jazz

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Speaker 2: town rather than a pop rock town.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So that that's that was very much what fed into

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Speaker 2: my album Night and Day, which I thought no one

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Speaker 2: was going to like. Yeah, but it.

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Speaker 1: Was a huge departure from the first three albums.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons I thought no one wouldn't

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Speaker 2: like it.

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Speaker 1: And it's looking in hindsight, it was a it was

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Speaker 1: a quick you made that detour rap quick. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's the fourth album, but it's only three years later,

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 2: I guess that album, Yeah, but years were years back then.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about that, Well, they lasted a lot longer

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Speaker 2: than they do now, you know, I mean distance between

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Speaker 2: your third, first, and third and fourth albums. Yeah, looking back,

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Speaker 2: it was just a few years. But at the time

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Speaker 2: it didn't seem like, oh, it's you know, we made

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Speaker 2: an album last week. Let's make another one this week.

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Speaker 2: It didn't feel like that at the time. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: yet that's what you were doing. I mean the first

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Speaker 2: two albums, well just came out in the same Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah recorded months of I mean fun we recorded in

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Speaker 2: the summer of seventy eight and it came out in

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Speaker 2: January seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: From the second one, I can't remember when were recorded,

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Speaker 2: but I think it came out in September seventy nine. Okay,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean who puts that two albums a year?

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Speaker 2: The Beatles and the Beatles did yeah, you know, well

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Speaker 2: back then people did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Was there a reason you did? Like, was there?

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Speaker 2: No? It was just like, let's I weren't really thinking

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Speaker 2: about that much. I just had enough songs for another

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Speaker 2: album and everyone seemed to want to do it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What was what was your relationship with A and M?

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Speaker 1: Like at that time it was pretty good.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, when they were a pretty good,

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Speaker 2: pretty good label at the time.

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Speaker 1: Incredible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they had a lot of great people

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Speaker 2: and it was a really different era when the record

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Speaker 2: company made a difference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also like it was that A and

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Speaker 1: M was you know, it's like KRB Albert and Jerry Moss,

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Speaker 1: that's the those are the founders. That's the A and

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Speaker 1: M in it. And then you know, and it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a substantial label, you know, And I don't know

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Speaker 1: it was an independent and yet it wasn't independent, but

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Speaker 1: because those guys were such record you know, record industry guys,

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Speaker 1: but they were also musicians, but there were also originally

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Speaker 1: did you meet them ever?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: What were they like?

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Speaker 2: Jerry must seemed like a pretty cool guy. I mean

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Speaker 2: I met him a few times. Herb I only met

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Speaker 2: once or once or twice I think, and it just

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Speaker 2: seemed like incredibly laid back. Yeah. I don't know how

225
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Speaker 2: much they had to do with with my career, to

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Speaker 2: be honest, I don't think they were the people most involved.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that also you were Courted the first

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Speaker 1: album before The Police is for I mean the Police

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Speaker 1: were label mates, yes, and their first album came out

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Speaker 1: after it. Court is your first album. It came out

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Speaker 1: before I thought it was.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember, well, it.

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Speaker 1: Came out before yours came out, but you recorded yours

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Speaker 1: before it came out, and which is interesting just because

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Speaker 1: it feels like they were sort of the.

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Speaker 2: You know more about this than me, I'll just shut

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Speaker 2: up and.

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Speaker 1: You tell it like it is, I'll do about your career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did not know that, but yeah, we were

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Speaker 2: contemporaries and Squeeze as well. It was the other band

241
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Speaker 2: that we're like. But like I said, time was was

242
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Speaker 2: so much bigger than you know, the fact that someone's

243
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Speaker 2: first album came out six months before or after mine

244
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Speaker 2: might have seemed quite significant at the time. Yeah, it

245
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Speaker 2: certainly doesn't, you know.

246
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess where I was going with the Police

247
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Speaker 1: comment was and kind of I think most people's popular imaginations,

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Speaker 1: like it felt like they were the Police were sort

249
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Speaker 1: of the lead off to I'm sure it was happening already.

250
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Speaker 1: You know, there was Madness and all those other groups

251
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Speaker 1: that were sort of SKA tinged at the time.

252
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think their first time came out the same

253
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Speaker 2: year as mine. I think Madness and the Specials.

254
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Speaker 1: I think the special Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But in

255
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Speaker 1: terms of in terms of I guess going back to

256
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Speaker 1: popular music, I felt like the Police were sort of

257
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Speaker 1: like the ones that sort of broke it that out

258
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Speaker 1: of being local to whatever was happening. In the UK

259
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Speaker 1: and made it feel worldwide, made it feel global or

260
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Speaker 1: at least transcontinental. But it must have been, like you know, obviously,

261
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Speaker 1: if you've recorded your first album before that came out,

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Speaker 1: that was a thing that was brewing, right, that sort

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Speaker 1: of SKA new wave.

264
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think, like anyone else, I was

265
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Speaker 2: influenced by what was going on around me. And I

266
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Speaker 2: was in a certain place at a certain time, and

267
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Speaker 2: I was, you know, twenty three years old. And even

268
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Speaker 2: though I wanted to think that I was just being

269
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Speaker 2: original and I wasn't part of a movement or you

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Speaker 2: know that sort of stuff. You know, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was very influenced by everything that was going on

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Speaker 2: around me. And if I listened to my first album now,

273
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Speaker 2: but not that I do, to be honest, but it

274
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Speaker 2: just really sounds like London in nineteen seventy eight. You know,

275
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Speaker 2: It's very much of its time and place, and I

276
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Speaker 2: think you can't avoid that.

277
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Speaker 1: But that wasn't the intention, you did, want to know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, apart from.

279
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Speaker 2: Her, Yeah, I felt like this is my thing and

280
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Speaker 2: I don't want to be compared to anyone else, and

281
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Speaker 2: you know, and I would do interviews in Spain or somewhere,

282
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Speaker 2: and they'd say, so are you part of the new wave?

283
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Speaker 2: And I'd say, what are you talking about? I don't

284
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Speaker 2: even know what you're talking about.

285
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Speaker 1: You know, that term was particularly triggering for a lot

286
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Speaker 1: of artists, I think, you know.

287
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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like, you know, you don't want

288
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Speaker 2: to feel like you just part of the cults, you know,

289
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Speaker 2: ideology or something. You know, we all want to feel

290
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Speaker 2: like we're brilliant originals.

291
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Speaker 1: What was playing live like at that time? Was there?

292
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Speaker 1: Who were you? Who would you have been playing with

293
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Speaker 1: at that time, pre pre getting signed, pre your album?

294
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Speaker 1: Were you playing out, playing live, working out those songs?

295
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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, only a couple of pub gigs. I didn't

296
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Speaker 2: have a regular band until I got the record deal

297
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Speaker 2: because I couldn't afford to pay them. So there's basically

298
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Speaker 2: the band that I made my demos with. You know,

299
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Speaker 2: I called them up and said, hey, do you want

300
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Speaker 2: to quit your whatever your job is and go on

301
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Speaker 2: the road and we can just about afford to pay

302
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Speaker 2: a living wage. So before that I was just doing

303
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Speaker 2: any kind of gig I could get, and not with

304
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Speaker 2: your not with the band, doing all kinds of stuff,

305
00:16:03,396 --> 00:16:07,196
Speaker 2: you know, like I played in the Playboy Club and

306
00:16:08,036 --> 00:16:10,476
Speaker 2: I played for a cabaret a duo called Coffee and

307
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Speaker 2: Cream when I really cheesy. I did that for six

308
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Speaker 2: months to save up money, you know. That's how I

309
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Speaker 2: saved up money to make the demos that became my

310
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Speaker 2: first album.

311
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Speaker 1: Wait, were you in Coffee and Cream?

312
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Speaker 2: I was the piano player. Don't shoot me. I'm only

313
00:16:27,076 --> 00:16:31,876
Speaker 2: the piano player. Yeah, it was my choice, but I

314
00:16:31,916 --> 00:16:34,716
Speaker 2: would just do anything, you know. Before that, I was

315
00:16:34,756 --> 00:16:38,956
Speaker 2: in top forty cover bands and playing weddings and playing

316
00:16:38,996 --> 00:16:44,156
Speaker 2: in restaurants and playing jazz gigs. Just I mean, it's

317
00:16:44,196 --> 00:16:47,156
Speaker 2: really weird to think back to when I made my

318
00:16:47,196 --> 00:16:49,996
Speaker 2: first album. I was only twenty three, and I felt

319
00:16:50,076 --> 00:16:52,916
Speaker 2: like a veteran at that point. I mean, I did

320
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Speaker 2: my first paying gig when I was sixteen, you know,

321
00:16:56,196 --> 00:16:58,756
Speaker 2: so I was doing all kinds of gigs and I

322
00:16:58,836 --> 00:17:04,036
Speaker 2: felt like sort of culmination of this long journey making

323
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Speaker 2: an album.

324
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Speaker 1: I was twenty three, sixteen or twenty three. It's it's

325
00:17:09,996 --> 00:17:11,076
Speaker 1: it's substantial.

326
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Speaker 2: Well again, when you're not age, it really is substantial.

327
00:17:13,916 --> 00:17:17,836
Speaker 1: Yeah, super substantial. What was your like, what was your

328
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Speaker 1: so if you're playing popular music at the time that

329
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Speaker 1: what was your repertoire pre.

330
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know what whatever was in the charts,

331
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Speaker 2: and just depending what kind of band it.

332
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Speaker 1: Was, remember certain songs you would loath to have.

333
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Speaker 2: I wasn't crazy about the Neil Diamond medley we did

334
00:17:40,036 --> 00:17:45,676
Speaker 2: with Coffee and Cream. But you know, I don't think

335
00:17:45,716 --> 00:17:48,356
Speaker 2: it's it's a bad thing to use the skills you

336
00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:51,716
Speaker 2: have to make money, No, and also you get it.

337
00:17:51,996 --> 00:17:56,276
Speaker 2: It's all experienced whatever you do, and and I think

338
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Speaker 2: it it's a good groundwork. I think people don't have

339
00:17:59,916 --> 00:18:02,476
Speaker 2: it so much anymore. But but you know, when you've

340
00:18:02,516 --> 00:18:05,436
Speaker 2: gone on stage and had glasses thrown at you, buy

341
00:18:05,716 --> 00:18:09,316
Speaker 2: an audience of skin heads and things like that, you know,

342
00:18:09,356 --> 00:18:12,556
Speaker 2: it does kind of toughen you up a bit, prepare

343
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Speaker 2: you for the long haul. And yeah, so I said

344
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Speaker 2: to me, it sounds like they're seen in the Blues

345
00:18:18,516 --> 00:18:20,796
Speaker 2: Brothers where they have to have chicken wire in front

346
00:18:20,836 --> 00:18:23,636
Speaker 2: of the bed and they said, we longed for chicken wire,

347
00:18:26,436 --> 00:18:27,156
Speaker 2: if only.

348
00:18:27,396 --> 00:18:30,276
Speaker 1: There would have been an improvement. Yeah, what records were

349
00:18:30,316 --> 00:18:34,036
Speaker 1: you listening to then? Formative Views that's sixteen to twenty

350
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Speaker 1: three making the first album.

351
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Speaker 2: What were you ingesting? Let me think, David Bowie Stevie Wonder,

352
00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:48,716
Speaker 2: Joni Mitchell, Steely, Dan Little Feet, and I mean for

353
00:18:48,796 --> 00:18:51,716
Speaker 2: a while, when I was like sixteen seventeen, I was

354
00:18:51,796 --> 00:18:54,476
Speaker 2: into prog rock and I liked A Soft Machine was

355
00:18:54,516 --> 00:18:57,516
Speaker 2: a favorite band, and anything kind of jazzy I liked

356
00:18:57,556 --> 00:19:01,836
Speaker 2: as well, King Crimson and people like that. A lot

357
00:19:01,876 --> 00:19:03,436
Speaker 2: of that stuff I don't really like now, not to

358
00:19:03,516 --> 00:19:07,396
Speaker 2: be honest, but and reggae music. Bob Marley, you know

359
00:19:07,956 --> 00:19:10,196
Speaker 2: in the late seventies that came that was huge in

360
00:19:10,276 --> 00:19:12,236
Speaker 2: England at the time, all that music, So I got

361
00:19:12,316 --> 00:19:12,876
Speaker 2: really into that.

362
00:19:13,156 --> 00:19:14,876
Speaker 1: Was it like Clapton doing it that got it huge

363
00:19:14,916 --> 00:19:17,196
Speaker 1: out there or was it legitimo was it already it

364
00:19:17,316 --> 00:19:17,876
Speaker 1: was huge?

365
00:19:17,916 --> 00:19:22,276
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob Marty really broke broke through. And there was

366
00:19:22,316 --> 00:19:25,156
Speaker 2: that Bob Marley Live album, which is a great live album.

367
00:19:25,196 --> 00:19:27,716
Speaker 2: I think that that was a big hit. Suddenly it

368
00:19:27,876 --> 00:19:30,876
Speaker 2: was all over the radio and it was It's just huge,

369
00:19:30,916 --> 00:19:34,756
Speaker 2: and then everyone was, you know, every record company was

370
00:19:34,756 --> 00:19:36,316
Speaker 2: signing reggae artists all of a sudden.

371
00:19:37,276 --> 00:19:41,716
Speaker 1: And did you did you notice other people? Were you

372
00:19:41,876 --> 00:19:44,396
Speaker 1: aware of the of the other like the Madness and

373
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Speaker 1: all those other sky bands that were sort of cropping

374
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Speaker 1: up around.

375
00:19:49,116 --> 00:19:52,396
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I remember going to see one of the

376
00:19:52,476 --> 00:19:55,236
Speaker 2: Specialist first gigs in a pub in London was fantastic.

377
00:19:55,436 --> 00:19:59,196
Speaker 2: It was packed. I remember saying to my friend, was with,

378
00:19:59,356 --> 00:20:00,916
Speaker 2: these guys are going to be huge any they know

379
00:20:00,996 --> 00:20:04,316
Speaker 2: which they were, you know, But Madness is a band

380
00:20:04,356 --> 00:20:07,476
Speaker 2: that have really had longevity, and I think they're underrated actually.

381
00:20:08,116 --> 00:20:10,516
Speaker 2: I mean they're very very popular in England especially, but

382
00:20:11,476 --> 00:20:15,156
Speaker 2: I think, you know, there's there's a real depth of

383
00:20:15,876 --> 00:20:19,876
Speaker 2: songwriting and musicianship there actually in some of their later stuff. Yeah, yeah,

384
00:20:20,396 --> 00:20:20,916
Speaker 2: I'm a fan.

385
00:20:21,476 --> 00:20:23,156
Speaker 1: There is on your first few records too, and I

386
00:20:23,236 --> 00:20:26,676
Speaker 1: feel like you maybe, I think I read that on

387
00:20:26,796 --> 00:20:29,556
Speaker 1: your first few records you sort of embarrassed with the

388
00:20:29,636 --> 00:20:30,876
Speaker 1: songs to a certain degree.

389
00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:35,076
Speaker 2: What now I am? Now, Yeah, I mean some of

390
00:20:35,116 --> 00:20:37,636
Speaker 2: those songs are pretty silly and pretty immature, I think,

391
00:20:37,676 --> 00:20:39,436
Speaker 2: but that's you know, of course, that's what you get

392
00:20:39,476 --> 00:20:43,876
Speaker 2: when you're twenty three. Some of the songs I still

393
00:20:44,036 --> 00:20:49,516
Speaker 2: like can still play kind of cliche sort of just

394
00:20:49,836 --> 00:20:52,156
Speaker 2: I mean, I became over the years as a writer

395
00:20:52,356 --> 00:20:55,396
Speaker 2: much more particular about what I put out and much

396
00:20:55,476 --> 00:20:57,716
Speaker 2: more critical of myself. It used to be like, well,

397
00:20:57,716 --> 00:20:59,196
Speaker 2: I got an idea sort of knock it into some

398
00:20:59,316 --> 00:21:00,636
Speaker 2: sort of shape recording, and that was it.

399
00:21:01,596 --> 00:21:01,756
Speaker 1: You know.

400
00:21:02,236 --> 00:21:04,556
Speaker 2: I didn't really think about it much. And there's a

401
00:21:04,556 --> 00:21:06,916
Speaker 2: good side to that as well. But if you're going

402
00:21:06,956 --> 00:21:10,196
Speaker 2: to keep going for decades, which I somehow managed to do,

403
00:21:10,956 --> 00:21:14,356
Speaker 2: that's wasn't good enough for me in a way. I mean, nowadays,

404
00:21:14,436 --> 00:21:17,276
Speaker 2: I'm my own worst critic. If I start working on

405
00:21:17,396 --> 00:21:21,276
Speaker 2: something that starts to remind me of something I've heard before,

406
00:21:22,636 --> 00:21:25,076
Speaker 2: you know, whether it's someone else's or mine, then it's

407
00:21:26,116 --> 00:21:29,956
Speaker 2: scrap it, you know, start again, or twist it in

408
00:21:30,076 --> 00:21:32,916
Speaker 2: some way. I read somewhere that when Bruce Springsteen released

409
00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:35,756
Speaker 2: a Born in the USA album that he had sixty

410
00:21:35,876 --> 00:21:38,476
Speaker 2: songs and it was a really difficult job to narrow

411
00:21:38,556 --> 00:21:41,236
Speaker 2: it down to whatever it is, ten or whatever twelve

412
00:21:41,476 --> 00:21:45,036
Speaker 2: on the album. I thought, my god, I can imagine

413
00:21:45,076 --> 00:21:48,636
Speaker 2: being in that situation, having that many songs and finding

414
00:21:48,676 --> 00:21:52,596
Speaker 2: it that hard to I mean, my latest album has

415
00:21:52,836 --> 00:21:55,116
Speaker 2: the nine songs that's it, but.

416
00:21:55,196 --> 00:21:56,836
Speaker 1: It sounds like there could have been many.

417
00:21:57,036 --> 00:21:59,916
Speaker 2: But there was a lot of other like you know,

418
00:22:01,556 --> 00:22:05,316
Speaker 2: was going down streets that turned out to be couldest

419
00:22:05,356 --> 00:22:08,836
Speaker 2: acts you know, along the way. So half Wreckage of

420
00:22:09,236 --> 00:22:11,436
Speaker 2: finished songs by the roadside along the way.

421
00:22:11,956 --> 00:22:14,556
Speaker 1: Do you ever revive a bad idea in the end.

422
00:22:15,556 --> 00:22:17,796
Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like you've okay, maybe I've fown

423
00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:19,276
Speaker 1: that way too soon, or coming back to it and

424
00:22:19,396 --> 00:22:21,836
Speaker 1: it ends up actually working out.

425
00:22:21,956 --> 00:22:24,236
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and the opposite. You know, something I'm really

426
00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:27,116
Speaker 2: excited about. This is a great song, and you know,

427
00:22:27,236 --> 00:22:28,396
Speaker 2: I sort of live with it for a while and

428
00:22:28,476 --> 00:22:33,316
Speaker 2: think nah, nah, and I might Actually, I mean, I've

429
00:22:33,396 --> 00:22:36,116
Speaker 2: done things like scrap the whole lyric of a song

430
00:22:37,196 --> 00:22:39,316
Speaker 2: and just put it aside, and then get an idea

431
00:22:39,356 --> 00:22:42,716
Speaker 2: and start again with a different lyric. Finally it's a song.

432
00:22:42,796 --> 00:22:45,236
Speaker 2: I mean, there's no real sort of pattern to any

433
00:22:45,276 --> 00:22:46,516
Speaker 2: of it. Actually, how hard is that?

434
00:22:46,556 --> 00:22:48,956
Speaker 1: Because I mean, you might, even if it's a bad lyric,

435
00:22:49,036 --> 00:22:52,396
Speaker 1: you must, at some point, on some level muscle memory,

436
00:22:52,436 --> 00:22:54,356
Speaker 1: even just at the muscle memory level, get.

437
00:22:54,636 --> 00:22:57,276
Speaker 2: Set on the lyric even if it's bad, you know, yeah,

438
00:22:58,236 --> 00:23:02,116
Speaker 2: but there'd be something about it that, you know, over time,

439
00:23:02,196 --> 00:23:05,556
Speaker 2: I figure out what it is that's bothering me and

440
00:23:06,356 --> 00:23:08,996
Speaker 2: why it's not good enough. You know, it's very hard

441
00:23:08,996 --> 00:23:11,956
Speaker 2: to explain because it's not scientific. It's not you know,

442
00:23:12,036 --> 00:23:15,796
Speaker 2: it's not an exact science, it's very much. I mean,

443
00:23:15,836 --> 00:23:17,956
Speaker 2: I've been asked to you right from the head or

444
00:23:17,996 --> 00:23:21,956
Speaker 2: from the heart, and it's neither. It's something else, and

445
00:23:22,036 --> 00:23:26,476
Speaker 2: it's something like intuition. It's intuitive. So it's like a

446
00:23:26,716 --> 00:23:30,356
Speaker 2: question of taste as well, you know, And so you

447
00:23:31,116 --> 00:23:33,036
Speaker 2: can only rely on your own taste and your own

448
00:23:33,156 --> 00:23:36,476
Speaker 2: intuition because you're the artist. That's what you're supposed to do. Yeah.

449
00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:39,836
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you feel like you must feel then, like

450
00:23:39,916 --> 00:23:41,156
Speaker 1: your taste has evolved quite a.

451
00:23:41,196 --> 00:23:46,796
Speaker 2: Bit from Yeah, I mean, it does get harder to

452
00:23:48,756 --> 00:23:50,916
Speaker 2: be as prolific as I was, for instance, back in

453
00:23:50,996 --> 00:23:53,796
Speaker 2: the eighties, where I seem to be constantly recording new

454
00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:56,156
Speaker 2: albums and touring, and from my point of view now,

455
00:23:56,596 --> 00:23:59,596
Speaker 2: the quality of it is uneven. You know, I made

456
00:23:59,756 --> 00:24:01,356
Speaker 2: at least three albums too many.

457
00:24:01,676 --> 00:24:03,836
Speaker 1: I think which ones would not make the cut if

458
00:24:03,916 --> 00:24:05,316
Speaker 1: you were now deciding.

459
00:24:05,396 --> 00:24:08,916
Speaker 2: You know what, I don't want to say because some

460
00:24:09,196 --> 00:24:11,956
Speaker 2: so someone will say to me, oh, this album of yours, bloke,

461
00:24:13,556 --> 00:24:15,876
Speaker 2: it's my favorite album. I love it. What am I

462
00:24:15,916 --> 00:24:17,116
Speaker 2: going to say? No, you're wrong.

463
00:24:17,996 --> 00:24:18,156
Speaker 7: You know.

464
00:24:19,756 --> 00:24:24,236
Speaker 2: If someone likes it, then great, but just for me.

465
00:24:24,396 --> 00:24:28,036
Speaker 2: But because I'm entitled to an opinion, about it too. Yeah, right,

466
00:24:28,156 --> 00:24:30,716
Speaker 2: And some of the albums are better than others just

467
00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:34,116
Speaker 2: for my own taste, but I don't want to spoil

468
00:24:34,196 --> 00:24:35,996
Speaker 2: anyone else's enjoyment of any of it.

469
00:24:36,316 --> 00:24:40,196
Speaker 1: What about musically, like stepping out once you once you

470
00:24:40,596 --> 00:24:44,596
Speaker 1: get to there, you're really you're you're really stretching out musically.

471
00:24:46,076 --> 00:24:49,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, that album in general, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just

472
00:24:49,676 --> 00:24:52,356
Speaker 2: sort of it was really kind of starting a new

473
00:24:52,476 --> 00:24:56,076
Speaker 2: chapter where I feel like I was being more myself

474
00:24:57,036 --> 00:25:00,476
Speaker 2: and not so much influenced by what was going on

475
00:25:00,516 --> 00:25:04,436
Speaker 2: around me at the time. And and like I said,

476
00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:06,436
Speaker 2: it was bringing in a lot of those influences which

477
00:25:06,476 --> 00:25:09,036
Speaker 2: I thought were more New York influences of jazz and

478
00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:15,036
Speaker 2: Latin music rather than rock and roll. And even leaving

479
00:25:15,076 --> 00:25:17,676
Speaker 2: out the guitars, I still meet people who say there

480
00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:20,876
Speaker 2: were no guitars on night and day? Really, And I said, well,

481
00:25:20,996 --> 00:25:24,116
Speaker 2: did you hear any that no one seemed to notice?

482
00:25:24,156 --> 00:25:26,796
Speaker 2: Which is funny. Had this idea of it's just it's

483
00:25:26,836 --> 00:25:31,476
Speaker 2: all keyboards and percussion, And like I said, I didn't

484
00:25:31,476 --> 00:25:32,996
Speaker 2: think anyone was going to like it. I thought it

485
00:25:33,036 --> 00:25:36,916
Speaker 2: would be a really hard sell, and I was going

486
00:25:36,996 --> 00:25:40,156
Speaker 2: to do it anyway. Definitely stretching out musically because I

487
00:25:40,356 --> 00:25:42,916
Speaker 2: was capable of that, you know, I mean on the

488
00:25:42,956 --> 00:25:46,356
Speaker 2: first couple of hours, was a case of deliberately simplifying it,

489
00:25:46,356 --> 00:25:47,836
Speaker 2: which a lot of people were doing at the time.

490
00:25:48,436 --> 00:25:49,916
Speaker 2: You know, it felt like the thing to do at

491
00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:53,556
Speaker 2: the time. Even if you were you could be a

492
00:25:53,636 --> 00:25:57,516
Speaker 2: very good musician, but you'd play really simple deliberately, right,

493
00:25:57,916 --> 00:26:00,316
Speaker 2: you know. I mean my band was a pretty damn

494
00:26:00,356 --> 00:26:03,716
Speaker 2: good band, you know, but it was just keep it

495
00:26:03,876 --> 00:26:07,756
Speaker 2: really really simple. And I just stopped even thinking about that.

496
00:26:09,196 --> 00:26:12,316
Speaker 1: That was that likely a reaction to the progra that

497
00:26:12,436 --> 00:26:14,756
Speaker 1: was popular and all that, you know, sort of being

498
00:26:14,836 --> 00:26:16,636
Speaker 1: tired of it, people being sort of probably tired of

499
00:26:16,716 --> 00:26:17,916
Speaker 1: the frips of the world.

500
00:26:18,196 --> 00:26:20,756
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that going back, yeah, to the beginnings of

501
00:26:21,196 --> 00:26:23,996
Speaker 2: punk and all that. Yeah, it was, And at the

502
00:26:24,076 --> 00:26:26,596
Speaker 2: time I thought it was all great fun. I didn't

503
00:26:26,596 --> 00:26:29,996
Speaker 2: take it seriously at all. It just punk bands just

504
00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:34,396
Speaker 2: made me laugh, so I thought it was great. Really.

505
00:26:35,076 --> 00:26:37,876
Speaker 2: I had I once had a beer with Joe's Strauma

506
00:26:37,916 --> 00:26:41,636
Speaker 2: from The Clash, who was a great guy, and we

507
00:26:42,076 --> 00:26:47,436
Speaker 2: talked about how how critics especially lacking and they lacked

508
00:26:47,476 --> 00:26:51,196
Speaker 2: the humor a gene, you know, he was saying, how

509
00:26:51,236 --> 00:26:53,596
Speaker 2: that when when they were writing songs for the Clash,

510
00:26:53,636 --> 00:26:55,836
Speaker 2: him and Mick Jones, they would be cracking each other

511
00:26:55,996 --> 00:26:58,476
Speaker 2: up because they were, as we say in England, taking

512
00:26:58,516 --> 00:27:04,076
Speaker 2: the piss, you know, mocking making fun of and then

513
00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:10,876
Speaker 2: the reviews were come out excororating social political anger and

514
00:27:10,996 --> 00:27:15,476
Speaker 2: protesting this, and they'd be laughing for more. I was like, yes, exactly,

515
00:27:15,876 --> 00:27:18,516
Speaker 2: I felt exactly the same way. It was amazing how

516
00:27:18,596 --> 00:27:19,676
Speaker 2: seriously it was all taken.

517
00:27:20,236 --> 00:27:23,876
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people critics that you were taking yourself seriously

518
00:27:23,876 --> 00:27:26,236
Speaker 1: a lot often right, like you right.

519
00:27:26,556 --> 00:27:28,916
Speaker 2: Well, they have no sense of humor. It's been my

520
00:27:28,996 --> 00:27:32,436
Speaker 2: observation over the years. It's the one thing that they

521
00:27:32,556 --> 00:27:36,196
Speaker 2: missed consistently. Yeah, as you know, they take everything at

522
00:27:36,236 --> 00:27:40,036
Speaker 2: face value and take it very seriously. It's funny.

523
00:27:41,196 --> 00:27:43,276
Speaker 1: Would you read reviews then or now?

524
00:27:44,076 --> 00:27:48,156
Speaker 2: Back then I would, Yeah, Nowadays I don't. I avoid

525
00:27:48,196 --> 00:27:51,716
Speaker 2: them Yeah yeah, yeah, because that could just drive you crazy. Yeah.

526
00:27:52,436 --> 00:27:54,356
Speaker 2: If you pay too much attention to any of that stuff,

527
00:27:54,396 --> 00:27:56,836
Speaker 2: you they're not not being able to create anything. Yeah.

528
00:27:58,476 --> 00:28:04,876
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Joe Jackson. I always

529
00:28:04,876 --> 00:28:09,076
Speaker 1: found it funny, you know, critics just the as if

530
00:28:09,196 --> 00:28:11,956
Speaker 1: new wave wasn't bad enough a term, it's like, and

531
00:28:12,036 --> 00:28:14,276
Speaker 1: then critics moved on to some point.

532
00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:19,876
Speaker 2: Like, you know, like sophistic pop okay, sophisto pop likes

533
00:28:19,916 --> 00:28:23,276
Speaker 2: pretty pullity and you okay, and and uh it was.

534
00:28:24,756 --> 00:28:28,996
Speaker 1: I think they threw in, who's the band that made that?

535
00:28:29,156 --> 00:28:34,196
Speaker 1: Uh Steve, Steve McQueen was the Prefabs, pre Fab Sprout. Yeah,

536
00:28:34,436 --> 00:28:35,036
Speaker 1: and they were great.

537
00:28:35,076 --> 00:28:36,516
Speaker 2: I mean, album was great.

538
00:28:36,796 --> 00:28:39,756
Speaker 1: That was amazing. But then you know their clients fist

539
00:28:39,916 --> 00:28:43,916
Speaker 1: pop pop sound terrible. You know, it's like it's a

540
00:28:43,996 --> 00:28:44,636
Speaker 1: terrible name.

541
00:28:44,956 --> 00:28:45,756
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course it is.

542
00:28:48,156 --> 00:28:51,196
Speaker 1: I guess I should bring up at this point that

543
00:28:51,476 --> 00:28:54,996
Speaker 1: Sonny Rollins just died, yes, ninety six or something, it

544
00:28:55,076 --> 00:28:57,796
Speaker 1: was ninety five, ninety six. Yeah, he got, he gotn't

545
00:28:57,796 --> 00:29:00,396
Speaker 1: played for quite quite a while. He was still playing

546
00:29:00,396 --> 00:29:01,476
Speaker 1: a still sorry.

547
00:29:01,676 --> 00:29:05,076
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw him again, Like going back to the

548
00:29:05,396 --> 00:29:06,996
Speaker 2: days when I was first living in New York in

549
00:29:07,036 --> 00:29:09,476
Speaker 2: the eighties, I saw Sonny Rollins perform a couple of times,

550
00:29:10,076 --> 00:29:13,356
Speaker 2: and I was absolutely blown away he had been back then,

551
00:29:13,516 --> 00:29:15,676
Speaker 2: you know. I mean one of the shows that I

552
00:29:15,756 --> 00:29:18,036
Speaker 2: saw he did was one of the most powerful performances

553
00:29:18,076 --> 00:29:20,556
Speaker 2: I've ever seen, you know, by by a jazz musicians.

554
00:29:20,596 --> 00:29:24,236
Speaker 2: Certainly my hair was standing on it. You know, he

555
00:29:24,396 --> 00:29:25,316
Speaker 2: was really special.

556
00:29:25,836 --> 00:29:28,196
Speaker 1: Wow, what do you know? What? Where was it? Do

557
00:29:28,236 --> 00:29:28,636
Speaker 1: you remember?

558
00:29:29,196 --> 00:29:31,996
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was the bottom Line, which was a great venue.

559
00:29:32,036 --> 00:29:33,196
Speaker 2: It was long gone unfortunately.

560
00:29:34,156 --> 00:29:37,036
Speaker 1: Is that it was that because I know you also

561
00:29:38,436 --> 00:29:42,516
Speaker 1: you inspired for Body and Saul by his volume.

562
00:29:42,676 --> 00:29:46,076
Speaker 2: Yeah, that wasn't It was just, you know, we were

563
00:29:46,116 --> 00:29:50,196
Speaker 2: trying to think of a cover concept and we felt

564
00:29:50,236 --> 00:29:54,556
Speaker 2: we tried something with that classic blue note look, sort

565
00:29:54,596 --> 00:29:59,556
Speaker 2: of homage to that, which other people have done since then.

566
00:30:00,156 --> 00:30:02,476
Speaker 2: Maybe they had done before then, but if so, I

567
00:30:02,596 --> 00:30:05,676
Speaker 2: wasn't aware of it. But it was more just just

568
00:30:05,756 --> 00:30:07,116
Speaker 2: the look of it, you know. It wasn't just the

569
00:30:07,196 --> 00:30:08,676
Speaker 2: fact that I was a fan of Sonny your Eyes.

570
00:30:09,116 --> 00:30:10,396
Speaker 1: It's still an amazing album cover.

571
00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,516
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it. A few years later, Rolling Stone

572
00:30:15,116 --> 00:30:17,796
Speaker 2: published a little thing with they put the Sunny Rollins

573
00:30:17,836 --> 00:30:22,756
Speaker 2: album in Mind side by side. They busted me, you know,

574
00:30:23,516 --> 00:30:26,756
Speaker 2: apparently I ripped it off and they're revealing to the

575
00:30:26,836 --> 00:30:29,396
Speaker 2: world this terrible ripoff that I did.

576
00:30:29,916 --> 00:30:32,876
Speaker 1: Me play something from the new album any particular song

577
00:30:32,956 --> 00:30:36,276
Speaker 1: you like off the album? Do you have a favorite?

578
00:30:36,516 --> 00:30:40,876
Speaker 2: No? I would never even if I did. I wouldn't

579
00:30:40,916 --> 00:30:45,596
Speaker 2: tell you. But now I'm always reluctant to pick favorites.

580
00:30:45,596 --> 00:30:47,956
Speaker 2: I feel like that's not my job. But if I

581
00:30:48,036 --> 00:30:50,316
Speaker 2: didn't really like every track, I wouldn't put it out

582
00:30:50,356 --> 00:30:51,356
Speaker 2: that way I feel about it.

583
00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:57,156
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm play this made God laugh as.

584
00:31:00,196 --> 00:31:07,916
Speaker 8: Everything still side, which means you never know what's coming next.

585
00:31:09,196 --> 00:31:13,996
Speaker 1: Of luck, the stroke of ten, the freaking, the flash

586
00:31:14,236 --> 00:31:15,036
Speaker 1: of fame.

587
00:31:16,796 --> 00:31:18,196
Speaker 4: So now down.

588
00:31:18,916 --> 00:31:20,196
Speaker 7: But that's not to it.

589
00:31:20,996 --> 00:31:26,556
Speaker 4: To listen to why the wise man said another day

590
00:31:27,436 --> 00:31:33,276
Speaker 4: another song, SA say where you could be wrong?

591
00:31:33,836 --> 00:31:37,796
Speaker 6: You made shot life when you told in your pants.

592
00:31:39,196 --> 00:31:43,756
Speaker 7: Come on, you know it's true, and you make shot not.

593
00:31:44,156 --> 00:31:48,956
Speaker 6: When you made you out of your pance moreful you.

594
00:32:00,116 --> 00:32:02,516
Speaker 1: So I love the I love the It's a great

595
00:32:02,596 --> 00:32:05,076
Speaker 1: song and you celebrate on it. It's also a great

596
00:32:05,116 --> 00:32:07,316
Speaker 1: performance by your bass player by Grant.

597
00:32:07,156 --> 00:32:09,436
Speaker 2: Oh It's yeah, Well he's always great, Gray.

598
00:32:09,516 --> 00:32:11,636
Speaker 1: I mean that I would say that sounds amazing, isn't it.

599
00:32:13,876 --> 00:32:16,116
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about him? But yeah, what

600
00:32:16,476 --> 00:32:19,596
Speaker 1: one did? What was the genesis of that song?

601
00:32:20,676 --> 00:32:22,756
Speaker 2: It was a quote that I read somewhere and I

602
00:32:22,796 --> 00:32:25,956
Speaker 2: can't remember who who it was, but they said, if

603
00:32:25,996 --> 00:32:28,996
Speaker 2: you want to make the God's laugh, tell them your plans.

604
00:32:29,796 --> 00:32:31,516
Speaker 2: And I thought that was really interesting. The more I

605
00:32:31,556 --> 00:32:33,596
Speaker 2: thought about it, and more I thought it was a

606
00:32:33,636 --> 00:32:38,836
Speaker 2: happy thought, because you know, we all need to figure

607
00:32:38,876 --> 00:32:41,756
Speaker 2: out that we can't control everything. And the sooner you

608
00:32:41,836 --> 00:32:44,596
Speaker 2: realize that, the better, because it makes life less stressful

609
00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:47,876
Speaker 2: and generally, you know, nicer if you can do that.

610
00:32:48,676 --> 00:32:51,316
Speaker 2: It's funny because yeah, there's been a couple of people

611
00:32:51,996 --> 00:32:54,356
Speaker 2: interpreted as a sad song, and I don't think it

612
00:32:54,436 --> 00:32:58,036
Speaker 2: is at all. But that was the origin of it actually,

613
00:32:58,196 --> 00:33:01,116
Speaker 2: after I had written the song, and and by the way,

614
00:33:02,276 --> 00:33:05,076
Speaker 2: no song is all about the lyrics. It's just that

615
00:33:05,196 --> 00:33:08,596
Speaker 2: that's what we all end up talking about, you know.

616
00:33:09,556 --> 00:33:14,356
Speaker 2: But having written a song, I decided to try and

617
00:33:14,396 --> 00:33:17,196
Speaker 2: find out where i'd heard this quote. And turns out

618
00:33:17,236 --> 00:33:20,436
Speaker 2: Woody Allen said something very similar, but he got it

619
00:33:20,476 --> 00:33:23,596
Speaker 2: from an old Yiddish proverb which I'm not going to

620
00:33:23,636 --> 00:33:26,676
Speaker 2: try to say in Yiddish, but it because man plans

621
00:33:26,716 --> 00:33:29,476
Speaker 2: and God laughs, you know. So it's been around for

622
00:33:29,556 --> 00:33:30,796
Speaker 2: a while, this idea.

623
00:33:31,396 --> 00:33:34,716
Speaker 1: Are you always aware of the sort of the meta

624
00:33:34,796 --> 00:33:38,316
Speaker 1: text of a set of lyrics that you write or.

625
00:33:39,956 --> 00:33:44,116
Speaker 2: Meta text? Do I have meta texts? I'm not sure,

626
00:33:46,836 --> 00:33:53,836
Speaker 2: there's always layers to it. I find it very difficult

627
00:33:53,876 --> 00:33:56,516
Speaker 2: to I mean, I don't write I don't want to

628
00:33:56,556 --> 00:33:59,196
Speaker 2: write songs that are didactic telling you what to think.

629
00:33:59,396 --> 00:34:04,196
Speaker 2: You know, this is that what it is. And like

630
00:34:04,276 --> 00:34:08,356
Speaker 2: I said, songs are seventy percent music anyway. Yeah, I think,

631
00:34:08,836 --> 00:34:11,276
Speaker 2: you know, for me anyway, I mean, I think there's

632
00:34:11,316 --> 00:34:15,396
Speaker 2: a tradition of songwriting that's different that it's more about storytelling,

633
00:34:15,436 --> 00:34:17,356
Speaker 2: it's more about lyrics. It's more of a folk tradition.

634
00:34:18,116 --> 00:34:20,236
Speaker 2: That's not really what I do. And I think for

635
00:34:20,316 --> 00:34:22,676
Speaker 2: the most part, it's the music that really moves people,

636
00:34:23,516 --> 00:34:27,276
Speaker 2: and the words kind of tag along afterwards, and sometimes

637
00:34:27,396 --> 00:34:33,036
Speaker 2: they're you know, worth thinking about. I mean, I certainly

638
00:34:33,076 --> 00:34:37,516
Speaker 2: try to write the best lyrics I can, but it's

639
00:34:38,756 --> 00:34:40,676
Speaker 2: I'm really primarily a music guy.

640
00:34:41,556 --> 00:34:44,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think people listen for different things. Some people

641
00:34:44,596 --> 00:34:49,196
Speaker 1: are lyrics people, some people are I tend not to be,

642
00:34:49,636 --> 00:34:51,916
Speaker 1: and yeah, I don't either. I kind of take in

643
00:34:52,156 --> 00:34:55,596
Speaker 1: the whole thing, you know. Yeah, and if the lyrics

644
00:34:55,596 --> 00:34:59,036
Speaker 1: are particularly interesting, they'll draw me in at some point,

645
00:34:59,436 --> 00:35:01,716
Speaker 1: and bad lyrics can probably ruin out an otherwise a

646
00:35:01,756 --> 00:35:02,116
Speaker 1: good song.

647
00:35:03,476 --> 00:35:06,476
Speaker 2: No. On the contrary, this is one of the reasons

648
00:35:06,516 --> 00:35:08,396
Speaker 2: I think music is more important the lyrics, because there's

649
00:35:08,396 --> 00:35:10,436
Speaker 2: a lot of songs I really like that. If I

650
00:35:10,476 --> 00:35:13,436
Speaker 2: really think about the lyrics, they're pretty stupid. It don't

651
00:35:13,476 --> 00:35:16,716
Speaker 2: even make sense or anything. Not to mention the fact

652
00:35:16,756 --> 00:35:18,916
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of music I really love, where

653
00:35:18,956 --> 00:35:21,396
Speaker 2: the words are in a language that I have no

654
00:35:21,516 --> 00:35:22,076
Speaker 2: idea about.

655
00:35:22,316 --> 00:35:22,996
Speaker 1: What's often.

656
00:35:24,836 --> 00:35:26,436
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a good thing.

657
00:35:26,836 --> 00:35:28,276
Speaker 1: Removes that he's sort of critical.

658
00:35:28,436 --> 00:35:31,396
Speaker 2: Yeah, the lyrics might be terrible. I might be listening

659
00:35:31,476 --> 00:35:33,476
Speaker 2: to some music from Serbia. You know it was the

660
00:35:33,556 --> 00:35:36,636
Speaker 2: worst lyrics ever. I would never know. I'm just enjoyed it.

661
00:35:37,076 --> 00:35:39,316
Speaker 1: And sometimes you know, like the class like just like Joe,

662
00:35:39,396 --> 00:35:42,076
Speaker 1: and then we're singing, you know, like such an accent

663
00:35:42,116 --> 00:35:45,836
Speaker 1: did make every other word.

664
00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:48,556
Speaker 2: That's the thing I could never understand about Shane mc gowan,

665
00:35:48,596 --> 00:35:51,076
Speaker 2: because he wrote great lyrics and when he sang, you

666
00:35:51,076 --> 00:35:55,076
Speaker 2: couldn't understand a word. Amazing.

667
00:35:55,276 --> 00:35:57,276
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I didn't know he was even

668
00:35:57,316 --> 00:35:59,556
Speaker 1: revered as a songwriter until he passed away, and then

669
00:35:59,596 --> 00:36:00,636
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it became.

670
00:36:01,676 --> 00:36:07,716
Speaker 2: Really turn to songwriter reed. But it was I mean

671
00:36:07,916 --> 00:36:09,356
Speaker 2: I envied him in a way because I saw the

672
00:36:09,396 --> 00:36:11,796
Speaker 2: poke's live once and I think he sang on about

673
00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:14,596
Speaker 2: three songs and he would say thank you very much,

674
00:36:15,996 --> 00:36:19,996
Speaker 2: and everyone would cheers, like, yeah, good old drunk, shambolic Shane,

675
00:36:20,076 --> 00:36:23,116
Speaker 2: not making any sense. We love it, you know, I thought, oh,

676
00:36:23,236 --> 00:36:23,916
Speaker 2: that's a good gig.

677
00:36:26,636 --> 00:36:28,756
Speaker 1: Did you ever did you ever get to know him?

678
00:36:28,836 --> 00:36:31,396
Speaker 1: Or no? No, no, did you get did you ever

679
00:36:31,436 --> 00:36:33,756
Speaker 1: get to know many peers or like as in terms

680
00:36:33,836 --> 00:36:36,556
Speaker 1: of beyond you know you mentioned having a beer.

681
00:36:36,676 --> 00:36:41,076
Speaker 2: I mean I met quite a few people. Andy Partriy

682
00:36:41,116 --> 00:36:42,876
Speaker 2: is just a bit of a bit of a friend

683
00:36:43,316 --> 00:36:46,756
Speaker 2: of XTC, someone that I think you have a lot

684
00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:49,956
Speaker 2: in common with someone no one ever compares me to

685
00:36:50,596 --> 00:36:53,836
Speaker 2: musically very different. No, I think we have a lot

686
00:36:53,876 --> 00:36:59,476
Speaker 2: in common. Really, yeah, yeah, and yeah Joe's trauma was

687
00:36:59,916 --> 00:37:02,276
Speaker 2: was a great guy. I was really sad when he died.

688
00:37:02,436 --> 00:37:06,316
Speaker 2: I can't believe he's actually not with us still. But

689
00:37:07,276 --> 00:37:09,116
Speaker 2: I can't say, you know, it's I don't hang out

690
00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:12,756
Speaker 2: up with a whole bunch of my peers. I'm not

691
00:37:13,076 --> 00:37:15,716
Speaker 2: friends with these people. I mean, I don't mean that

692
00:37:15,756 --> 00:37:18,036
Speaker 2: in a dismissive what it's just not the way it's

693
00:37:18,196 --> 00:37:18,636
Speaker 2: turned out.

694
00:37:18,876 --> 00:37:21,716
Speaker 1: What do you find yourself listening to primarily these days.

695
00:37:22,956 --> 00:37:25,636
Speaker 2: Whole kinds of stuff. I'm really all over the map,

696
00:37:25,836 --> 00:37:28,436
Speaker 2: a lot of jazz, a lot of Latin music. Still

697
00:37:29,756 --> 00:37:31,916
Speaker 2: listening to a lot of music from Colombia, which I

698
00:37:31,996 --> 00:37:36,076
Speaker 2: think some really interesting music coming out Columbia. I got

699
00:37:36,116 --> 00:37:39,796
Speaker 2: into early jazz in recent years, so listening to people

700
00:37:39,876 --> 00:37:45,356
Speaker 2: like Rahines, Sydney Beshet, Jery Rollmorton. Late twenties, early thirties

701
00:37:45,436 --> 00:37:48,756
Speaker 2: jazz I really love and late fifties early sixties jazz

702
00:37:48,796 --> 00:37:53,196
Speaker 2: are the two eras that I really love. But I mean,

703
00:37:53,916 --> 00:37:56,196
Speaker 2: I don't hear a lot of interesting stuff in the

704
00:37:56,356 --> 00:38:00,596
Speaker 2: pop rock, the Anglo American pop rock world. Yeah, I

705
00:38:00,676 --> 00:38:03,116
Speaker 2: don't think it's that great. I mean there's some things

706
00:38:04,756 --> 00:38:09,036
Speaker 2: from outside of the Anglo American sphere, you know. Yeah,

707
00:38:09,316 --> 00:38:12,396
Speaker 2: some interesting music from I mean like Stromai from Belgium.

708
00:38:12,596 --> 00:38:15,876
Speaker 2: I think it's really cool. Wow. Yeah, you know, that's

709
00:38:15,916 --> 00:38:19,076
Speaker 2: a band from Berlin called Zed. I really like, you know,

710
00:38:19,756 --> 00:38:23,076
Speaker 2: Rosalia from Spain is really interesting. So there's some some

711
00:38:24,076 --> 00:38:26,956
Speaker 2: some you know, original things breaks through here and there.

712
00:38:27,636 --> 00:38:30,956
Speaker 1: I don't know there was the band the band was sorry,

713
00:38:31,156 --> 00:38:33,676
Speaker 1: was the band from Berlin? You said, Okay, I don't know, Z.

714
00:38:33,876 --> 00:38:37,236
Speaker 1: But the other two Stroma and Rosalie. I mean they're

715
00:38:37,396 --> 00:38:40,596
Speaker 1: they're really I don't want to say I'm on guard,

716
00:38:40,676 --> 00:38:44,156
Speaker 1: but they do things outside of what they're contemporaries that's

717
00:38:44,516 --> 00:38:48,116
Speaker 1: interested in their their sort of vocabulary as musicians seems

718
00:38:48,796 --> 00:38:53,196
Speaker 1: extra you know, extra extraordinary perhaps, so.

719
00:38:53,236 --> 00:38:56,156
Speaker 2: That must be with Draji to that, right, Yeah, it

720
00:38:56,156 --> 00:38:59,596
Speaker 2: feels very different, right, It's not just something that you

721
00:38:59,636 --> 00:39:02,196
Speaker 2: can easily put a label on and you know, file

722
00:39:02,276 --> 00:39:04,436
Speaker 2: it and it's this, this, this, and it's for these

723
00:39:04,516 --> 00:39:11,116
Speaker 2: people and that's more interesting area. But it's harder to

724
00:39:11,196 --> 00:39:15,676
Speaker 2: pin it down. Yeah, in just a minute, we'll be

725
00:39:15,756 --> 00:39:23,076
Speaker 2: back with more from Joe Jackson. It's funny that early

726
00:39:23,156 --> 00:39:28,116
Speaker 2: on there was this sort of keep it simple philosophy. Yeah,

727
00:39:28,716 --> 00:39:30,676
Speaker 2: you eventually ditch it and then it really is. So

728
00:39:30,716 --> 00:39:35,356
Speaker 2: it feels like, you know, in a weird way. Probably

729
00:39:35,356 --> 00:39:37,756
Speaker 2: that's probably what you heard in the prog rock when

730
00:39:37,796 --> 00:39:39,596
Speaker 2: you were young that you enjoyed, even though you don't

731
00:39:39,876 --> 00:39:43,516
Speaker 2: like it now the presentation of it maybe. But yeah,

732
00:39:43,596 --> 00:39:45,756
Speaker 2: well this goes back to when I was, you know,

733
00:39:45,916 --> 00:39:48,676
Speaker 2: fifteen or something like this, and I because it's because

734
00:39:48,676 --> 00:39:51,796
Speaker 2: I had a classical training, you know, so I learned

735
00:39:51,836 --> 00:39:55,116
Speaker 2: to read music when I was eleven, and it's no

736
00:39:55,236 --> 00:39:59,796
Speaker 2: big deal, you know, So I think that I kind

737
00:39:59,836 --> 00:40:02,556
Speaker 2: of maybe there was a couple of years where I

738
00:40:02,676 --> 00:40:05,756
Speaker 2: turned my nose up at pop music, and but then

739
00:40:05,796 --> 00:40:07,756
Speaker 2: I started to get interested in it again. And the

740
00:40:07,796 --> 00:40:09,596
Speaker 2: things that interested me were the things that I thought

741
00:40:09,636 --> 00:40:14,556
Speaker 2: were musically more sophisticated. But then after a while there

742
00:40:14,596 --> 00:40:17,396
Speaker 2: were things like people like David Bowie. You know that

743
00:40:17,956 --> 00:40:20,836
Speaker 2: that would have brought me back more towards pop music.

744
00:40:21,436 --> 00:40:24,156
Speaker 1: Because it blended a bit of the sophistication of.

745
00:40:24,356 --> 00:40:26,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also started to think, well, you know,

746
00:40:26,276 --> 00:40:28,116
Speaker 2: I don't want to be stuck up about anything. I mean,

747
00:40:28,276 --> 00:40:31,076
Speaker 2: all kinds of music, can you have something good about them?

748
00:40:31,156 --> 00:40:33,276
Speaker 2: So I think that's been my attitude ever since.

749
00:40:33,996 --> 00:40:36,196
Speaker 1: Do you keep up with your sort of classical training?

750
00:40:36,396 --> 00:40:39,356
Speaker 1: Is that as a muscle that you've continued to I

751
00:40:39,436 --> 00:40:42,716
Speaker 1: think it's just kind of part of the arsenal of something.

752
00:40:42,956 --> 00:40:47,436
Speaker 2: It's just in there. So do you practice practice a lot?

753
00:40:49,396 --> 00:40:51,036
Speaker 2: I play quite a lot, so I guess it's all

754
00:40:51,076 --> 00:40:54,516
Speaker 2: practicing in a way. YEA, yeah, I mean I don't

755
00:40:54,556 --> 00:40:57,036
Speaker 2: practice scales and stuff like that for hours like I

756
00:40:57,116 --> 00:41:03,316
Speaker 2: did when I was a teenager, but and you what will.

757
00:41:03,236 --> 00:41:04,876
Speaker 1: You pick up like a piece you haven't played and

758
00:41:05,036 --> 00:41:07,076
Speaker 1: just try to get through it occasionally.

759
00:41:07,156 --> 00:41:10,076
Speaker 2: Yeah, one's the last. I mean did so it's kind

760
00:41:10,116 --> 00:41:13,356
Speaker 2: of cool. Well, I'm not recently, to be honest. I

761
00:41:13,436 --> 00:41:16,196
Speaker 2: mean technically I was probably much better at eighteen than

762
00:41:16,236 --> 00:41:21,676
Speaker 2: I am now. Yeah, But in terms of being able

763
00:41:21,716 --> 00:41:25,516
Speaker 2: to improvise and be creative at the keyboard, I was

764
00:41:25,556 --> 00:41:28,756
Speaker 2: not very good then. I think I'm still getting better

765
00:41:28,876 --> 00:41:29,116
Speaker 2: at that.

766
00:41:30,116 --> 00:41:32,436
Speaker 1: So you weren't early on, you weren't good at improvising.

767
00:41:33,876 --> 00:41:38,596
Speaker 2: I mean I tried, you know, but I think I've

768
00:41:38,636 --> 00:41:40,636
Speaker 2: gotten better, but I think I'm still learning. I think

769
00:41:40,676 --> 00:41:43,036
Speaker 2: my playing is still still getting better. Yeah.

770
00:41:43,876 --> 00:41:45,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, that must have been. It must have been great

771
00:41:46,036 --> 00:41:48,956
Speaker 1: then being around guys like her and Jerry Marson. I

772
00:41:48,956 --> 00:41:50,516
Speaker 1: guess Quincy Jones would have been at A and M

773
00:41:50,596 --> 00:41:52,556
Speaker 1: at that time, or at least.

774
00:41:52,556 --> 00:41:55,116
Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't hanging out with these people, but

775
00:41:55,636 --> 00:41:57,436
Speaker 2: I mean I was aware that I was with a

776
00:41:57,676 --> 00:42:01,036
Speaker 2: fairly cool record label, you know, and other acts that

777
00:42:01,116 --> 00:42:05,476
Speaker 2: I liked. I like Squeeze quite a lot, and some

778
00:42:05,636 --> 00:42:08,436
Speaker 2: of the things that were really interesting I picked up

779
00:42:08,476 --> 00:42:11,556
Speaker 2: on a M, like they had yellow Magic orchestra from Japan.

780
00:42:12,356 --> 00:42:15,076
Speaker 2: I remember picking up a couple of their records from

781
00:42:15,076 --> 00:42:17,236
Speaker 2: the A and M officers and really enjoyed them.

782
00:42:17,476 --> 00:42:22,356
Speaker 1: I don't know they're on an MS. Yeah, how did

783
00:42:22,396 --> 00:42:25,476
Speaker 1: you find your guys? How did you find your band?

784
00:42:26,676 --> 00:42:28,996
Speaker 2: Well, they were local guys. The bass players of the

785
00:42:29,036 --> 00:42:33,116
Speaker 2: drummer Graham maybe Dave Olton. We're local guys that, I mean.

786
00:42:33,156 --> 00:42:35,996
Speaker 2: Graham I met when I was eighteen or something, so

787
00:42:36,116 --> 00:42:38,796
Speaker 2: we were playing in different kinds of bands together, and

788
00:42:38,996 --> 00:42:44,036
Speaker 2: Dave Olton was playing with, you know, other people I

789
00:42:44,156 --> 00:42:47,596
Speaker 2: knew and you know, so we all grew up in

790
00:42:47,676 --> 00:42:50,636
Speaker 2: the same area around Portsmouth on the south coast of England.

791
00:42:52,116 --> 00:42:53,676
Speaker 2: But by the time I made my first album, I

792
00:42:53,756 --> 00:42:56,476
Speaker 2: was living in London and Gary the guitarist, was in London,

793
00:42:56,476 --> 00:43:01,076
Speaker 2: who was someone that I met then. So yeah, it

794
00:43:01,276 --> 00:43:03,716
Speaker 2: was just a kind of pretty organic kind of thing.

795
00:43:04,436 --> 00:43:07,996
Speaker 1: It's pretty wild that those guys were just around and

796
00:43:08,236 --> 00:43:12,596
Speaker 1: I mean they were they're really great players. Yeah, did

797
00:43:12,636 --> 00:43:14,476
Speaker 1: they have him? Did they have their own things going on?

798
00:43:14,836 --> 00:43:15,276
Speaker 2: What were there?

799
00:43:15,596 --> 00:43:16,996
Speaker 1: What were they at when you kind of fot were

800
00:43:16,996 --> 00:43:19,996
Speaker 1: they were they? What were their ambitions?

801
00:43:20,116 --> 00:43:22,356
Speaker 2: Just I don't know what Actually, you have to ask them.

802
00:43:22,436 --> 00:43:25,636
Speaker 2: I suppose just doing gigs, whatever gigs they could get,

803
00:43:25,756 --> 00:43:29,036
Speaker 2: and doing part time jobs and scraping by.

804
00:43:29,556 --> 00:43:31,716
Speaker 1: And how do you typically work with them?

805
00:43:33,076 --> 00:43:33,236
Speaker 3: Dave?

806
00:43:33,556 --> 00:43:38,156
Speaker 1: Dave's still around often, right, not always, but I mean, well.

807
00:43:38,076 --> 00:43:42,836
Speaker 2: He hasn't wanted to tour for quite a long time. Yeah,

808
00:43:42,916 --> 00:43:45,996
Speaker 2: he's kind of was. I mean the reason I broke

809
00:43:46,076 --> 00:43:47,636
Speaker 2: up my first man was because he didn't want to

810
00:43:47,676 --> 00:43:48,276
Speaker 2: tour anymore.

811
00:43:48,516 --> 00:43:49,196
Speaker 1: Is that what happened?

812
00:43:49,316 --> 00:43:52,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, And rather than just replace him and carry on,

813
00:43:52,236 --> 00:43:55,076
Speaker 2: I thought, well, maybe it's time for a break, take

814
00:43:55,156 --> 00:43:59,516
Speaker 2: some time off and rethink. But he came back on

815
00:43:59,636 --> 00:44:01,716
Speaker 2: board later and we did a couple more albums and

816
00:44:01,756 --> 00:44:03,756
Speaker 2: tours together, and then he kind of dropped out again.

817
00:44:04,636 --> 00:44:08,836
Speaker 2: So I've had a sort of procession of drummers, some

818
00:44:09,116 --> 00:44:13,556
Speaker 2: eight ones actually, so Doug Yol, who's I'm working with now,

819
00:44:13,876 --> 00:44:16,116
Speaker 2: been working together for about ten years.

820
00:44:16,956 --> 00:44:18,596
Speaker 1: How does it work when you bring something to your

821
00:44:18,636 --> 00:44:21,356
Speaker 1: band it? How do you work with them?

822
00:44:21,436 --> 00:44:24,356
Speaker 2: How do you work Make a demo of some sort

823
00:44:25,356 --> 00:44:27,396
Speaker 2: and say we'll listen to this and kind of get

824
00:44:27,436 --> 00:44:31,836
Speaker 2: familiar with it, learn the chord changes, learn learn the parts.

825
00:44:33,116 --> 00:44:39,956
Speaker 2: In some cases there'll be things that that really suit

826
00:44:40,036 --> 00:44:42,796
Speaker 2: them and sound great, and other times it doesn't really

827
00:44:42,836 --> 00:44:46,276
Speaker 2: work and we have to negotiate. So it's kind of like, well,

828
00:44:46,716 --> 00:44:48,916
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem to work for you, what can you

829
00:44:48,996 --> 00:44:52,836
Speaker 2: do that's along the same lines, And so it becomes

830
00:44:53,036 --> 00:44:57,676
Speaker 2: collaborative to a certain extent, but I have the final

831
00:44:57,756 --> 00:45:00,756
Speaker 2: say because someone has to and it should be the

832
00:45:00,796 --> 00:45:04,236
Speaker 2: guy whose names on the record. So people have asked me,

833
00:45:04,276 --> 00:45:07,156
Speaker 2: as you're burning democracy, and it's not as a dictatorship actually,

834
00:45:07,676 --> 00:45:10,516
Speaker 2: but it's what they call it nine dictatorship where the

835
00:45:10,596 --> 00:45:11,676
Speaker 2: dictator is not a bad.

836
00:45:11,596 --> 00:45:14,276
Speaker 1: Guy anti.

837
00:45:15,836 --> 00:45:15,956
Speaker 2: Sir?

838
00:45:16,116 --> 00:45:19,596
Speaker 1: Can we please change this? Can I change this part?

839
00:45:19,636 --> 00:45:22,236
Speaker 1: It's not suitable. I mean, so you you have the demo,

840
00:45:22,316 --> 00:45:26,596
Speaker 1: it's pretty fleshed out, and they mostly learn it how

841
00:45:26,716 --> 00:45:27,436
Speaker 1: you presented it.

842
00:45:27,796 --> 00:45:30,436
Speaker 2: But there's always some things that change along the way.

843
00:45:30,836 --> 00:45:33,036
Speaker 2: And I quite enjoy that that process because I do

844
00:45:33,156 --> 00:45:35,676
Speaker 2: want people to feel like they're involved in it and

845
00:45:35,716 --> 00:45:38,196
Speaker 2: they're not just you know, like session guys or something.

846
00:45:38,396 --> 00:45:38,596
Speaker 1: Yeah.

847
00:45:40,156 --> 00:45:43,916
Speaker 2: I'm very particular about picking the people who I like

848
00:45:43,996 --> 00:45:47,716
Speaker 2: their personality, both as people and as players, you know,

849
00:45:47,876 --> 00:45:52,036
Speaker 2: and trying to find ways to especially in a live situation.

850
00:45:52,436 --> 00:45:54,796
Speaker 2: I was trying to find ways to make everyone in

851
00:45:54,876 --> 00:46:00,196
Speaker 2: the band shine, you know, give each player share of

852
00:46:00,236 --> 00:46:02,516
Speaker 2: the spotlight. Yeah, that's one of the really fun things

853
00:46:02,516 --> 00:46:03,676
Speaker 2: about playing live. I think.

854
00:46:03,956 --> 00:46:09,356
Speaker 1: Yeah, the begs parts, those they're not that fleshed, are

855
00:46:09,396 --> 00:46:10,196
Speaker 1: they are the flesh?

856
00:46:10,836 --> 00:46:12,836
Speaker 2: Some of them are, Yeah, some of them are. But

857
00:46:13,036 --> 00:46:15,636
Speaker 2: there's Yeah, there's this baselines part of the song as

858
00:46:15,676 --> 00:46:18,956
Speaker 2: I conceived it, you know, so so I you know,

859
00:46:19,076 --> 00:46:21,476
Speaker 2: some of the baselines are what I've written. Some of

860
00:46:21,556 --> 00:46:24,156
Speaker 2: them are Graham doing something along the lines that I

861
00:46:24,236 --> 00:46:26,636
Speaker 2: ask him to do, because I know him well enough

862
00:46:26,676 --> 00:46:30,596
Speaker 2: that he's generally going to come up with something I like. Yeah, so,

863
00:46:31,516 --> 00:46:33,596
Speaker 2: and if I don't like it, I'll tell him that

864
00:46:34,236 --> 00:46:39,596
Speaker 2: that's my prerogative. But yeah, it's it's hard to explain

865
00:46:39,596 --> 00:46:42,236
Speaker 2: it because the question comes up quite a lot, you know,

866
00:46:42,556 --> 00:46:45,996
Speaker 2: how much, say, do the musicians have in the creation

867
00:46:46,116 --> 00:46:48,876
Speaker 2: of their own parts? And it's it's not like black

868
00:46:48,956 --> 00:46:51,156
Speaker 2: and white, This is kind of somewhere in the middle.

869
00:46:52,516 --> 00:46:55,396
Speaker 2: How much does a song come to you when when

870
00:46:56,396 --> 00:46:59,236
Speaker 2: fully formed? How much do you kind of hear the

871
00:46:59,276 --> 00:47:03,236
Speaker 2: full thing a lot of the time. Yeah, yeah, I

872
00:47:03,276 --> 00:47:07,076
Speaker 2: don't know why, but I don't think in terms of well,

873
00:47:07,156 --> 00:47:10,116
Speaker 2: I have this few cores and what do I do now?

874
00:47:10,196 --> 00:47:10,316
Speaker 7: You know?

875
00:47:10,356 --> 00:47:14,516
Speaker 2: I tend to sort of hear whole the whole kind

876
00:47:14,556 --> 00:47:18,956
Speaker 2: of sound world in my head if you like, hard

877
00:47:19,036 --> 00:47:21,916
Speaker 2: to describe with us sounding a bit kind of pretentious.

878
00:47:21,636 --> 00:47:25,516
Speaker 1: Let's play. Maybe I'm not sorry for sure, it's im agreeable.

879
00:47:25,556 --> 00:47:27,356
Speaker 1: Whatever you whatever you like, Okay.

880
00:47:40,756 --> 00:47:44,196
Speaker 6: Hello cruel mode. I'm not going away, so I might

881
00:47:44,316 --> 00:47:46,076
Speaker 6: as well at my side.

882
00:47:52,716 --> 00:47:56,236
Speaker 8: For other dancer I never gave, and for every damn

883
00:47:56,356 --> 00:48:07,116
Speaker 8: wild That'll failed to say, for every little fat I didn't.

884
00:48:06,956 --> 00:48:17,556
Speaker 6: Chase, for every little fool just like my face, I

885
00:48:17,756 --> 00:48:18,396
Speaker 6: know that you.

886
00:48:18,756 --> 00:48:24,276
Speaker 1: Die, I know that you want it. I know that

887
00:48:24,476 --> 00:48:27,196
Speaker 1: you need leave it alone.

888
00:48:27,316 --> 00:48:30,516
Speaker 6: Because I'm not gonna say that I'm not sorry.

889
00:48:31,156 --> 00:48:32,596
Speaker 1: I'm not sorry at all.

890
00:48:35,756 --> 00:48:38,676
Speaker 2: I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry at.

891
00:48:38,516 --> 00:48:51,556
Speaker 1: All for every cause.

892
00:48:51,356 --> 00:48:54,276
Speaker 7: That I didn't support in any love that I broke

893
00:48:54,436 --> 00:49:05,356
Speaker 7: saying what I thought for every California dude I let

894
00:49:05,396 --> 00:49:06,556
Speaker 7: the love to observe.

895
00:49:06,636 --> 00:49:10,396
Speaker 1: I had an attitude I feel seen.

896
00:49:14,996 --> 00:49:18,876
Speaker 7: For every FLYNT choose to fly and all the crocodilechies.

897
00:49:19,036 --> 00:49:20,596
Speaker 6: I refuse to cry.

898
00:49:28,116 --> 00:49:28,436
Speaker 5: That you.

899
00:49:31,356 --> 00:49:32,476
Speaker 1: You so.

900
00:49:35,796 --> 00:49:39,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying no, it's funny to because I haven't

901
00:49:39,036 --> 00:49:44,076
Speaker 2: actually listened to that for a while and and because

902
00:49:44,156 --> 00:49:46,996
Speaker 2: we've been were what is it, twelve shows into our

903
00:49:47,036 --> 00:49:49,436
Speaker 2: tour now, and we're playing this song live and it

904
00:49:49,556 --> 00:49:50,356
Speaker 2: sounds different.

905
00:49:51,116 --> 00:49:51,836
Speaker 1: How's it change?

906
00:49:52,076 --> 00:49:57,316
Speaker 2: Well, it's things just just sound different, you know. Yeah,

907
00:49:57,356 --> 00:50:00,476
Speaker 2: it's funny. Yeah, they're here now, and I think, well,

908
00:50:00,636 --> 00:50:03,796
Speaker 2: the bass sounds different, the drums sound different, the balance

909
00:50:03,916 --> 00:50:07,516
Speaker 2: between the guitar and the keyboard sounds different. But in

910
00:50:07,596 --> 00:50:10,436
Speaker 2: a way that's we're not it. We're not really changed

911
00:50:10,476 --> 00:50:14,316
Speaker 2: the song, you know. But yeah, it's funny. It's just

912
00:50:14,396 --> 00:50:17,716
Speaker 2: hard to explain. It just takes on a different life live.

913
00:50:17,796 --> 00:50:19,476
Speaker 1: I think, does it feel good to hear it the

914
00:50:19,516 --> 00:50:20,076
Speaker 1: original way?

915
00:50:20,196 --> 00:50:20,356
Speaker 6: Yeah?

916
00:50:20,356 --> 00:50:21,356
Speaker 2: I think that's pretty good.

917
00:50:21,436 --> 00:50:21,636
Speaker 1: Yeah.

918
00:50:21,956 --> 00:50:25,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think we're doing some little different things

919
00:50:26,036 --> 00:50:29,076
Speaker 2: to it now. Yeah yeah. Interesting?

920
00:50:29,236 --> 00:50:30,996
Speaker 1: Is that kind of Is that worth investigating for you?

921
00:50:31,116 --> 00:50:31,236
Speaker 8: Ever?

922
00:50:31,396 --> 00:50:35,356
Speaker 1: That will have? The way a song changes live, I.

923
00:50:35,356 --> 00:50:37,836
Speaker 2: Don't know, it just sort of evolves. I Mean, one

924
00:50:37,876 --> 00:50:42,356
Speaker 2: thing I do find is that very often things get

925
00:50:42,436 --> 00:50:44,676
Speaker 2: better as a tour goes on, and you think, oh,

926
00:50:44,836 --> 00:50:47,756
Speaker 2: I wish we could record the album now. And I

927
00:50:47,796 --> 00:50:51,316
Speaker 2: actually did that once on an album called Fool for

928
00:50:51,396 --> 00:50:55,156
Speaker 2: a few years ago. That's what we actually did. Finally,

929
00:50:56,036 --> 00:50:58,636
Speaker 2: we did a one month tour where we played all

930
00:50:58,676 --> 00:51:02,156
Speaker 2: the new songs, and then the idea was wherever we

931
00:51:03,276 --> 00:51:05,996
Speaker 2: finished up, assuming it was somewhere where there was a studio,

932
00:51:07,876 --> 00:51:09,716
Speaker 2: you know, the day after the Life Our show, we

933
00:51:09,756 --> 00:51:12,036
Speaker 2: would go in the studio and record the album. It

934
00:51:12,036 --> 00:51:16,876
Speaker 2: turned out to be Boise, Idaho, which I love because

935
00:51:16,916 --> 00:51:19,116
Speaker 2: everyone was saying, what the hell are you doing recording

936
00:51:19,156 --> 00:51:22,756
Speaker 2: an album there? It's actually not a bad place. We

937
00:51:22,836 --> 00:51:25,916
Speaker 2: did the album in a week, wow, you know, did

938
00:51:25,996 --> 00:51:27,996
Speaker 2: some of the vocals later in New York and mixed

939
00:51:27,996 --> 00:51:30,636
Speaker 2: it in New York. But that was great. But it's

940
00:51:30,676 --> 00:51:35,356
Speaker 2: so logistically so hard to do that. So this album

941
00:51:35,476 --> 00:51:38,236
Speaker 2: was quite different because so we actually I did some

942
00:51:38,476 --> 00:51:41,836
Speaker 2: demos for it that turned out really well, and we

943
00:51:41,956 --> 00:51:44,516
Speaker 2: ended up using a lot of the demo tracks on it,

944
00:51:44,636 --> 00:51:46,836
Speaker 2: including some of the lead vocals, which I didn't expect,

945
00:51:47,316 --> 00:51:48,276
Speaker 2: you know, I thought I was going to have to

946
00:51:48,316 --> 00:51:50,636
Speaker 2: do them all over again. But I was listening to

947
00:51:50,716 --> 00:51:52,916
Speaker 2: them and thinking, wait a minute, I don't know how

948
00:51:52,956 --> 00:51:54,996
Speaker 2: to do this any better, so we may as well

949
00:51:55,076 --> 00:51:57,476
Speaker 2: keep it. So we saved some time. I don't like

950
00:51:57,556 --> 00:51:59,316
Speaker 2: to spend a lot of time in the studio anyway

951
00:52:00,276 --> 00:52:03,796
Speaker 2: always or just because generally I don't know. So some

952
00:52:03,876 --> 00:52:06,036
Speaker 2: of the lead vocals on there are from Yeah, the

953
00:52:06,156 --> 00:52:11,436
Speaker 2: demo vocals, that's that's amazing, but you know, I couldn't

954
00:52:11,476 --> 00:52:13,116
Speaker 2: figure out why you're do them any better.

955
00:52:14,116 --> 00:52:17,036
Speaker 1: That's great though. A lot of times I hear, you know,

956
00:52:17,356 --> 00:52:19,396
Speaker 1: people will down the line put out a demo of

957
00:52:19,516 --> 00:52:21,116
Speaker 1: a song, yeah, and.

958
00:52:22,076 --> 00:52:24,276
Speaker 2: You're here like, wow, the demo is actually.

959
00:52:24,036 --> 00:52:26,396
Speaker 1: Better than that, you know, But I think it's maybe

960
00:52:26,476 --> 00:52:27,676
Speaker 1: hard to believe that.

961
00:52:27,916 --> 00:52:30,956
Speaker 2: For something else, right, you know, But it's very interesting

962
00:52:31,036 --> 00:52:33,476
Speaker 2: of what happens sometimes if you if you don't have

963
00:52:33,596 --> 00:52:36,756
Speaker 2: much time and you've got to just get it done

964
00:52:37,316 --> 00:52:39,956
Speaker 2: and not be too fussy, and you're telling yourself, well,

965
00:52:39,956 --> 00:52:43,036
Speaker 2: it's only a demo anyway, and I guess that in

966
00:52:43,196 --> 00:52:46,716
Speaker 2: that process you're kind of relaxed in a way, but

967
00:52:47,476 --> 00:52:49,636
Speaker 2: at the same time you're not you're not wasting any time,

968
00:52:49,716 --> 00:52:52,236
Speaker 2: so you kind of, whether you realize it or not,

969
00:52:52,356 --> 00:52:55,556
Speaker 2: you're actually zeroing in on what's important, which you can

970
00:52:55,636 --> 00:52:58,516
Speaker 2: lose sight of if you've been too long in the studio,

971
00:52:58,516 --> 00:53:01,316
Speaker 2: which a lot of people do. So I think it's

972
00:53:01,396 --> 00:53:03,156
Speaker 2: quite an interesting lesson in there somewhere.

973
00:53:03,356 --> 00:53:11,796
Speaker 1: Yeah, that song I'm Not Sorry musically pretty cool, Yeah,

974
00:53:12,596 --> 00:53:16,236
Speaker 1: did it. But it's cool because it's because there's an

975
00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:20,396
Speaker 1: aggressiveness to it. But then there's you know, the sort

976
00:53:20,436 --> 00:53:24,316
Speaker 1: of like Latin harmonic thing going on. And usually those

977
00:53:24,316 --> 00:53:29,436
Speaker 1: two things aren't aren't melded together. But that's that's even

978
00:53:29,476 --> 00:53:31,836
Speaker 1: in your music, those things, because there's songs that are

979
00:53:31,876 --> 00:53:33,876
Speaker 1: viewers that feel acerbic and have like a more of

980
00:53:33,956 --> 00:53:36,836
Speaker 1: a that kind of aggressive feel, and then there's songs

981
00:53:36,836 --> 00:53:40,836
Speaker 1: that are of course have had Latin grooves. But it's

982
00:53:41,156 --> 00:53:43,716
Speaker 1: it feels rare that those two things kind of converge.

983
00:53:44,156 --> 00:53:44,276
Speaker 3: You know.

984
00:53:45,196 --> 00:53:51,276
Speaker 2: That's an interesting angle. I think maybe because it's it's

985
00:53:51,316 --> 00:53:56,196
Speaker 2: actually quite humorous, you know. I mean, it strikes some

986
00:53:56,316 --> 00:53:59,836
Speaker 2: people as being angry, but it's it's really more more humorous.

987
00:54:00,996 --> 00:54:04,356
Speaker 2: There's a bit of a kind of you know, deffun

988
00:54:04,716 --> 00:54:09,436
Speaker 2: attitude it. I mean, it's very different, and it's a

989
00:54:09,476 --> 00:54:15,036
Speaker 2: bit of a kind of anti cancel culture sort of idea.

990
00:54:16,876 --> 00:54:19,516
Speaker 2: You know, I quite like the idea just saying, you know,

991
00:54:19,716 --> 00:54:21,556
Speaker 2: I'm not sorry, whatever it is. If you've had some

992
00:54:21,756 --> 00:54:25,356
Speaker 2: problem with me, I'm not sorry. And there's a line

993
00:54:25,396 --> 00:54:29,316
Speaker 2: in the song that goes, don't apologize to someone who

994
00:54:29,396 --> 00:54:32,036
Speaker 2: just wants to make you their bitch. You know. It's

995
00:54:32,076 --> 00:54:35,436
Speaker 2: like the last thing you should do is apologize. So

996
00:54:35,716 --> 00:54:39,276
Speaker 2: that's that's the message, but it's I think done in

997
00:54:39,356 --> 00:54:42,316
Speaker 2: a rather humorous way rather than an angry way. There's

998
00:54:42,356 --> 00:54:44,516
Speaker 2: one song on the album I'm I'm not going to

999
00:54:44,516 --> 00:54:46,676
Speaker 2: say it's my favorite, but I'm particularly proud of in

1000
00:54:46,956 --> 00:54:49,836
Speaker 2: certain ways. It's called an End of the Pier and

1001
00:54:50,276 --> 00:54:53,156
Speaker 2: the idea that I had for the song, I got

1002
00:54:53,196 --> 00:54:55,116
Speaker 2: to a point where I thought it's over ambitious. I

1003
00:54:55,156 --> 00:54:58,116
Speaker 2: don't think I could pull this off. And I more

1004
00:54:58,236 --> 00:55:00,716
Speaker 2: or less, you know, I might be exaggerating a bit,

1005
00:55:00,796 --> 00:55:02,876
Speaker 2: but like shut myself in a room for a week

1006
00:55:02,956 --> 00:55:06,756
Speaker 2: and you know, with a rhyming dictionary and a phosaurus,

1007
00:55:08,316 --> 00:55:10,436
Speaker 2: and just worked on it and reworks it and reworks

1008
00:55:10,436 --> 00:55:12,676
Speaker 2: it until I thought, wait a minute, yeah it works.

1009
00:55:13,036 --> 00:55:15,036
Speaker 2: I did pull it off. Wow.

1010
00:55:16,436 --> 00:55:17,836
Speaker 1: So I.

1011
00:55:19,836 --> 00:55:21,956
Speaker 2: You know, if you want to know, you haven't asked.

1012
00:55:21,996 --> 00:55:24,516
Speaker 2: If you want to know my favorite lyricist, there are

1013
00:55:24,596 --> 00:55:34,076
Speaker 2: people like I Regressing, Johnny Mercer, Lorenz Hart, Colporter, you know,

1014
00:55:34,636 --> 00:55:41,716
Speaker 2: all those guys just just the the the brilliance of

1015
00:55:41,796 --> 00:55:45,636
Speaker 2: the wordplay and I just love that, you know, and

1016
00:55:45,796 --> 00:55:51,556
Speaker 2: the wit I love so. I like the idea of

1017
00:55:51,676 --> 00:55:54,356
Speaker 2: being a craftsman when it comes to, you know, crafting

1018
00:55:54,396 --> 00:55:56,916
Speaker 2: the words of the song, even though I'm saying that

1019
00:55:56,996 --> 00:55:59,396
Speaker 2: they're not as important as the music. Ultimately, I don't

1020
00:55:59,436 --> 00:56:02,316
Speaker 2: think they are. It's the music that still is what

1021
00:56:02,476 --> 00:56:03,076
Speaker 2: moves you. I think.

1022
00:56:03,116 --> 00:56:05,036
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting though, But those guys like Johnny Mercer

1023
00:56:05,116 --> 00:56:08,996
Speaker 1: and that like they are, you know, there's a lot

1024
00:56:09,036 --> 00:56:13,036
Speaker 1: of clever world but they're fairly earnest songwriters.

1025
00:56:12,396 --> 00:56:14,796
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, but they also can be very witty

1026
00:56:14,916 --> 00:56:19,556
Speaker 2: and you know, very funny, which I think is really

1027
00:56:19,636 --> 00:56:22,396
Speaker 2: lacking in a lot of a lot of songwriting. Yeah.

1028
00:56:22,676 --> 00:56:24,956
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the Duke Ellington album that you did?

1029
00:56:25,116 --> 00:56:26,516
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, what made you?

1030
00:56:27,036 --> 00:56:30,036
Speaker 1: What brat can you do? That was about twenty twelve,

1031
00:56:30,076 --> 00:56:32,756
Speaker 1: I think, yes, I think it was. You did a

1032
00:56:32,836 --> 00:56:36,356
Speaker 1: Duke album. Yeah, and it's pretty cool.

1033
00:56:36,716 --> 00:56:38,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really proud of it. And it actually is

1034
00:56:39,036 --> 00:56:44,236
Speaker 2: a Joe Jackson album, you know. I mean, I I

1035
00:56:44,316 --> 00:56:47,596
Speaker 2: did the arrangements, I was the producer, I did the

1036
00:56:47,756 --> 00:56:52,636
Speaker 2: keyboard playing, programming, I did some of the vocals. The

1037
00:56:52,716 --> 00:56:56,556
Speaker 2: only thing I didn't do was write the original source material. Yeah,

1038
00:56:56,676 --> 00:56:59,276
Speaker 2: you know, right, yeah, So it was now idea I

1039
00:56:59,356 --> 00:57:00,956
Speaker 2: had for a long time because I'm a huge fan

1040
00:57:01,036 --> 00:57:04,116
Speaker 2: of Ellington and he is. One of the reasons that

1041
00:57:04,596 --> 00:57:06,556
Speaker 2: he's inspiring to me is because of the way that

1042
00:57:06,996 --> 00:57:10,996
Speaker 2: he constantly reworked his own material, different versions of his

1043
00:57:11,076 --> 00:57:14,316
Speaker 2: own songs, which I've always done. It's one of the

1044
00:57:14,396 --> 00:57:16,996
Speaker 2: things that keeps things interesting, you know, touring after so

1045
00:57:17,116 --> 00:57:17,836
Speaker 2: many years.

1046
00:57:18,076 --> 00:57:19,876
Speaker 1: Even the classic to take the A Train, it's like

1047
00:57:19,916 --> 00:57:22,156
Speaker 1: there's yeah, there's many versions.

1048
00:57:21,876 --> 00:57:25,996
Speaker 2: Yea, many versions of everything. For a long time, I'd

1049
00:57:26,036 --> 00:57:28,476
Speaker 2: had ideas about what you could do this Ellington tune

1050
00:57:28,516 --> 00:57:32,596
Speaker 2: with this kind of nomraigement whatever, And I can't remember

1051
00:57:32,796 --> 00:57:34,196
Speaker 2: at what point I said, you know, I want to

1052
00:57:34,316 --> 00:57:38,796
Speaker 2: try and do a whole project of this. And then

1053
00:57:38,836 --> 00:57:41,796
Speaker 2: I started to make some rules for myself, because this

1054
00:57:41,876 --> 00:57:43,636
Speaker 2: is one of the things you have to do to

1055
00:57:43,756 --> 00:57:46,996
Speaker 2: create anything, is to set limits. You can't be limitless,

1056
00:57:47,116 --> 00:57:50,436
Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't work. So one of my rules

1057
00:57:50,636 --> 00:57:54,276
Speaker 2: was no horns, because I mean, I want to pay

1058
00:57:54,356 --> 00:57:58,196
Speaker 2: tribute to Ellington, not compete with answer, right, So there's

1059
00:57:58,236 --> 00:58:02,156
Speaker 2: no horns, and none of the songs have a traditional

1060
00:58:02,356 --> 00:58:06,076
Speaker 2: swing rhythm, you know, so they're all different grooves and

1061
00:58:06,156 --> 00:58:07,316
Speaker 2: different kinds of sounds.

1062
00:58:08,396 --> 00:58:10,276
Speaker 1: Was that a struggle playing to the rhythm session that

1063
00:58:10,356 --> 00:58:12,716
Speaker 1: you're going to play some tunes naturally?

1064
00:58:13,436 --> 00:58:19,756
Speaker 2: No, which is crazy to say, Yeah, but that was

1065
00:58:19,836 --> 00:58:23,276
Speaker 2: the whole idea. And sometimes if you give yourself the guidelines,

1066
00:58:23,436 --> 00:58:28,236
Speaker 2: that's actually inspiring. It's not limiting. You know, it opens

1067
00:58:28,356 --> 00:58:33,596
Speaker 2: up possibilities. You know, seems contradictory, but it doesn't close

1068
00:58:33,636 --> 00:58:38,196
Speaker 2: down possibilities. And so I found myself of thinking, well,

1069
00:58:38,516 --> 00:58:41,956
Speaker 2: what other directions could we take this? I mean, Caravan,

1070
00:58:42,076 --> 00:58:45,116
Speaker 2: for instance, is sung by sus Sandy Him who's a

1071
00:58:45,316 --> 00:58:50,796
Speaker 2: singer from Iran, and as she did the translation of

1072
00:58:50,836 --> 00:58:56,236
Speaker 2: the lyrics into Farsi. So you know, I thought that

1073
00:58:56,396 --> 00:58:58,196
Speaker 2: was such a cool idea. I mean, no one had

1074
00:58:58,236 --> 00:58:59,996
Speaker 2: done that, but it seemed to me, in a way

1075
00:59:00,036 --> 00:59:04,596
Speaker 2: an obvious thing to do. And again, Perdido, I had

1076
00:59:04,636 --> 00:59:07,316
Speaker 2: this idea of it having a kind of Brazilian groove.

1077
00:59:07,556 --> 00:59:09,636
Speaker 2: And there was a band from Holland I really like

1078
00:59:09,716 --> 00:59:13,396
Speaker 2: called Zuko one oh three with a Brazilian singer Lillian Vera,

1079
00:59:14,476 --> 00:59:17,676
Speaker 2: who also did the translation into Portuguese of the lyrics.

1080
00:59:17,716 --> 00:59:20,716
Speaker 2: You know, So so it was like let's just try

1081
00:59:21,076 --> 00:59:23,196
Speaker 2: just doing all kinds of different things with Ellington that

1082
00:59:23,236 --> 00:59:27,316
Speaker 2: hadn't been done before, and different kinds of grooves using

1083
00:59:27,436 --> 00:59:32,396
Speaker 2: electric guitar and electric violin and and just you're getting

1084
00:59:32,436 --> 00:59:36,076
Speaker 2: away from the horns. And I think it turned out great,

1085
00:59:36,116 --> 00:59:38,516
Speaker 2: and I'm very, very proud of the album. Actually, yeah,

1086
00:59:38,836 --> 00:59:40,276
Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people didn't quite know what

1087
00:59:40,356 --> 00:59:42,316
Speaker 2: to make of it, but there you go.

1088
00:59:42,476 --> 00:59:44,996
Speaker 1: I think that's fine. It kind of reminded there was

1089
00:59:45,396 --> 00:59:47,956
Speaker 1: like Mingus at some point put out an album where

1090
00:59:47,956 --> 00:59:50,956
Speaker 1: he was like a lot of his sort of more

1091
00:59:51,036 --> 00:59:52,996
Speaker 1: well known tunes, but there was like you know, with

1092
00:59:53,276 --> 00:59:56,996
Speaker 1: with a band that was not really fit, not not fit,

1093
00:59:57,156 --> 00:59:58,636
Speaker 1: but now she would think, you know, it was like

1094
00:59:59,796 --> 01:00:02,756
Speaker 1: there was like a I think it was in the

1095
01:00:02,836 --> 01:00:04,356
Speaker 1: mid seventies, and there was like a bit of a

1096
01:00:04,396 --> 01:00:07,436
Speaker 1: shredder of a guitar player doing like pork you know,

1097
01:00:07,476 --> 01:00:10,916
Speaker 1: good bye porn and things. It's like, yeah, it was

1098
01:00:10,996 --> 01:00:13,516
Speaker 1: kind of kind of like defamed the songs, but in yeah,

1099
01:00:13,756 --> 01:00:16,196
Speaker 1: I'm sure, you know, critically defamed the songs. But it's

1100
01:00:16,236 --> 01:00:19,916
Speaker 1: kind of interesting. You know, let's you hear jazz in

1101
01:00:19,956 --> 01:00:22,756
Speaker 1: this kind of interesting modern context, right and putting caravan

1102
01:00:22,876 --> 01:00:26,796
Speaker 1: back in like into like a Middle Eastern sort of context.

1103
01:00:26,916 --> 01:00:29,636
Speaker 1: Is interesting too, because that's obviously the inspiration for the

1104
01:00:29,756 --> 01:00:34,556
Speaker 1: melody and things as it driven you crazy that I mean,

1105
01:00:34,596 --> 01:00:38,756
Speaker 1: I feel like for a lot of years, a lot

1106
01:00:38,796 --> 01:00:43,956
Speaker 1: of decades, you've you've been ducking into jazz, yeah, and

1107
01:00:44,236 --> 01:00:48,076
Speaker 1: making like really great records based around jazz tunes or

1108
01:00:48,156 --> 01:00:52,596
Speaker 1: jazz arrangements, and it doesn't stick in the sense of

1109
01:00:52,596 --> 01:00:54,956
Speaker 1: when people think Joe Jackson, they don't necessarily think jazzy.

1110
01:00:55,516 --> 01:00:59,076
Speaker 2: I'm not a jazz musician. I'm a jazz fan, and

1111
01:00:59,236 --> 01:01:01,716
Speaker 2: I can fake it a bit. I can play decent

1112
01:01:01,836 --> 01:01:04,596
Speaker 2: jazz piano, but I'm not gonna, you know, go up

1113
01:01:04,636 --> 01:01:09,396
Speaker 2: against the people who devote their whole lives to playing

1114
01:01:09,476 --> 01:01:12,716
Speaker 2: jazz piano, you know what I mean. So yeah, I'm

1115
01:01:12,956 --> 01:01:16,436
Speaker 2: I'm a I'm a jazz fan, and I like bringing

1116
01:01:16,476 --> 01:01:19,676
Speaker 2: in different influences and seeing what you can fit with

1117
01:01:20,276 --> 01:01:22,356
Speaker 2: what other you know, which pieces of the jigsaw you

1118
01:01:22,436 --> 01:01:25,076
Speaker 2: can fit to which other pieces. I mean, I think

1119
01:01:25,116 --> 01:01:28,476
Speaker 2: that's kind of what I do. You know, I don't

1120
01:01:29,596 --> 01:01:35,476
Speaker 2: I can't really staying in a very specific genre. And

1121
01:01:35,596 --> 01:01:37,916
Speaker 2: it's not a decision, you know, it's just the way

1122
01:01:37,956 --> 01:01:41,196
Speaker 2: it comes out. The way it comes out comes from

1123
01:01:41,236 --> 01:01:44,236
Speaker 2: who you are, and you know, so I'm just someone

1124
01:01:44,276 --> 01:01:48,916
Speaker 2: who's had very very broad musical experience and interest, and

1125
01:01:50,076 --> 01:01:52,876
Speaker 2: so what interests me is is finding ways to put

1126
01:01:52,916 --> 01:01:58,556
Speaker 2: these different things together in a way that works. That's yeah,

1127
01:01:58,596 --> 01:02:00,956
Speaker 2: I mean that probably sums it up as good as anything.

1128
01:02:01,716 --> 01:02:04,276
Speaker 1: It feels like I feel, it feels like a good

1129
01:02:04,276 --> 01:02:06,196
Speaker 1: summation of all the most of your work, you know.

1130
01:02:06,956 --> 01:02:08,716
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's almost it's kind of like

1131
01:02:08,796 --> 01:02:11,756
Speaker 2: being a co largist rather than a portrait painter or

1132
01:02:11,796 --> 01:02:14,156
Speaker 2: a landscape pounds paint or something like that. Maybe.

1133
01:02:14,476 --> 01:02:18,676
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you're twelve dates and doing eighty date tour.

1134
01:02:18,796 --> 01:02:20,396
Speaker 1: Roughly twelve dates and an eighty date tour.

1135
01:02:20,876 --> 01:02:23,476
Speaker 2: I think if if you put the North American tour

1136
01:02:23,516 --> 01:02:26,436
Speaker 2: or Europeans altogether, it's about eighty shows. Yeah, I think

1137
01:02:26,476 --> 01:02:28,396
Speaker 2: we're about twelve shows in point.

1138
01:02:28,676 --> 01:02:29,756
Speaker 1: Yes, I feel dancing.

1139
01:02:32,036 --> 01:02:34,796
Speaker 2: If I thought about it, it probably would try not

1140
01:02:34,916 --> 01:02:37,556
Speaker 2: to think about it. I mean, really it sounds cheesy,

1141
01:02:37,636 --> 01:02:39,316
Speaker 2: but on the road it's just you have to just

1142
01:02:39,396 --> 01:02:42,356
Speaker 2: concentrate on today. But you just think about today. I

1143
01:02:42,356 --> 01:02:44,196
Speaker 2: don't think about the gigs. We already did or what

1144
01:02:44,276 --> 01:02:47,916
Speaker 2: we're doing tomorrow. It's just really concentrate on today and

1145
01:02:48,756 --> 01:02:51,796
Speaker 2: it's going great, and it's we're at that kind of

1146
01:02:51,836 --> 01:02:54,196
Speaker 2: magic point of the tour where we got over some

1147
01:02:54,316 --> 01:02:57,196
Speaker 2: of the initial nerves and glitches and so on, and

1148
01:02:57,316 --> 01:03:00,356
Speaker 2: we're really enjoying it and it's just getting better.

1149
01:03:00,676 --> 01:03:04,836
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah. Do you what makes a good show

1150
01:03:04,876 --> 01:03:05,076
Speaker 1: for you?

1151
01:03:05,196 --> 01:03:05,236
Speaker 3: Like?

1152
01:03:05,276 --> 01:03:05,876
Speaker 2: Do you feel like it?

1153
01:03:07,196 --> 01:03:09,596
Speaker 1: How do you what makes a good show for versus

1154
01:03:09,676 --> 01:03:10,156
Speaker 1: a bad show?

1155
01:03:10,796 --> 01:03:12,556
Speaker 2: Well? I think it goes with that saying that it

1156
01:03:13,156 --> 01:03:15,436
Speaker 2: would be a show where I feel like I performed

1157
01:03:15,476 --> 01:03:17,716
Speaker 2: well and the band performed well and we didn't screw

1158
01:03:17,796 --> 01:03:21,476
Speaker 2: everything up. But beyond that, it's just something you can't define.

1159
01:03:21,476 --> 01:03:24,516
Speaker 2: It's magic. It really is magic. It's something that happens

1160
01:03:24,596 --> 01:03:29,356
Speaker 2: between between the band and the audience and everyone and

1161
01:03:30,676 --> 01:03:35,996
Speaker 2: some nights it's just it's magic. I can't explain it

1162
01:03:35,996 --> 01:03:38,396
Speaker 2: any better than that, and that's why it's great.

1163
01:03:40,156 --> 01:03:41,676
Speaker 1: Do you do you have to think about the audience

1164
01:03:41,716 --> 01:03:42,516
Speaker 1: in terms of set list?

1165
01:03:42,556 --> 01:03:46,116
Speaker 2: Do you do? Oh? Yeah, I try to be as

1166
01:03:46,156 --> 01:03:49,436
Speaker 2: objective as I possibly can. But how will this come across,

1167
01:03:50,276 --> 01:03:52,836
Speaker 2: you know, to someone sitting in the you know, the

1168
01:03:53,236 --> 01:03:56,356
Speaker 2: twentieth Rowe. I'm always thinking like that.

1169
01:03:56,756 --> 01:04:01,676
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I'm excited to come out tomorrow smart.

1170
01:04:01,796 --> 01:04:02,236
Speaker 2: I believe that.

1171
01:04:02,436 --> 01:04:04,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, tomorrow, they see you guys.

1172
01:04:04,876 --> 01:04:08,316
Speaker 2: Great. Yeah, it should be good. That's a good venue,

1173
01:04:09,156 --> 01:04:11,476
Speaker 2: played a couple of times before, so it should be good.

1174
01:04:11,676 --> 01:04:16,396
Speaker 1: I'm excited. Man. Quite a different attitude on I'm Not

1175
01:04:16,476 --> 01:04:18,196
Speaker 1: Sorry that on Battleground.

1176
01:04:18,316 --> 01:04:21,756
Speaker 2: Oh oh god. Yeah, well that's one of those songs

1177
01:04:21,756 --> 01:04:25,036
Speaker 2: I'd rather forget big.

1178
01:04:25,956 --> 01:04:28,796
Speaker 1: Was it ernest at the time or was at the time,

1179
01:04:28,916 --> 01:04:29,476
Speaker 1: And yeah, I.

1180
01:04:29,516 --> 01:04:33,076
Speaker 2: Guess it was. But so that was a that was well,

1181
01:04:33,116 --> 01:04:35,036
Speaker 2: you dragged it out of me, know that. That's one

1182
01:04:35,076 --> 01:04:36,556
Speaker 2: of the albums that I don't think is one of

1183
01:04:36,636 --> 01:04:39,276
Speaker 2: my best. Was Beat Crazy because the first two albums

1184
01:04:39,276 --> 01:04:45,036
Speaker 2: are basically the same album. You know, Really Be Crazy

1185
01:04:45,236 --> 01:04:46,876
Speaker 2: was kind of like trying to mix it up and

1186
01:04:46,956 --> 01:04:49,236
Speaker 2: do something a bit different, but without really quite knowing

1187
01:04:49,996 --> 01:04:51,836
Speaker 2: where I was going. So it's a bit of a

1188
01:04:51,916 --> 01:04:55,876
Speaker 2: confused album. I think he's got some interesting ideas on it,

1189
01:04:56,316 --> 01:04:59,476
Speaker 2: you know, some good bits, but I don't think it

1190
01:04:59,556 --> 01:05:01,956
Speaker 2: worked very well. I think that was probably another reason

1191
01:05:01,996 --> 01:05:05,156
Speaker 2: why when Dave the Drummer wanted to leave that I

1192
01:05:05,316 --> 01:05:09,876
Speaker 2: decided to kind of just break out the band and

1193
01:05:09,996 --> 01:05:11,836
Speaker 2: rethink rather than just kind of carry on.

1194
01:05:12,236 --> 01:05:14,276
Speaker 1: You realized it wasn't gonna that was broken. I wasn't

1195
01:05:14,316 --> 01:05:17,076
Speaker 1: gonna get better in that form. Yeah, at least at

1196
01:05:17,076 --> 01:05:17,476
Speaker 1: that point.

1197
01:05:17,516 --> 01:05:20,436
Speaker 2: I mean, we we got back together again twenty years

1198
01:05:20,476 --> 01:05:23,436
Speaker 2: later or whatever it was to do the four album,

1199
01:05:23,876 --> 01:05:26,516
Speaker 2: which was actually the best album we've made as a band.

1200
01:05:26,596 --> 01:05:28,596
Speaker 2: I think it's a good album. You know, it's a

1201
01:05:28,636 --> 01:05:31,356
Speaker 2: good it does. I mean, it's just it could you

1202
01:05:31,436 --> 01:05:34,116
Speaker 2: can't compete with nostalgia. That's the thing. I mean a

1203
01:05:34,196 --> 01:05:36,236
Speaker 2: lot of people said, well it's good, but although it's

1204
01:05:36,276 --> 01:05:39,036
Speaker 2: not as good as look sharp though, you know, well, yeah,

1205
01:05:39,836 --> 01:05:42,436
Speaker 2: they don't want it to be. That's good in a way.

1206
01:05:42,596 --> 01:05:44,756
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard, Like you say, it's hard, just

1207
01:05:45,036 --> 01:05:46,876
Speaker 1: too many memories built up.

1208
01:05:46,876 --> 01:05:49,556
Speaker 2: And you can't compete with that. But I mean as

1209
01:05:49,596 --> 01:05:52,516
Speaker 2: an album of songs and the playing the band was,

1210
01:05:53,076 --> 01:05:55,596
Speaker 2: you know, playing much better. And I think it's a

1211
01:05:55,636 --> 01:05:56,076
Speaker 2: good album.

1212
01:05:56,356 --> 01:05:58,596
Speaker 1: Yeah right, we hold on, We'll hold on, We'll play

1213
01:06:01,196 --> 01:06:03,596
Speaker 1: I guess do do do y fabulous people?

1214
01:06:05,236 --> 01:06:06,076
Speaker 2: That's good.

1215
01:06:13,996 --> 01:06:16,436
Speaker 1: This is why I shout and making instead over. I

1216
01:06:16,636 --> 01:06:17,716
Speaker 1: was taking my time.

1217
01:06:17,756 --> 01:06:18,676
Speaker 4: I've joked in the bag.

1218
01:06:20,636 --> 01:06:21,996
Speaker 1: This is why they're using bacon.

1219
01:06:22,316 --> 01:06:25,276
Speaker 8: The kind of stuff is making me fatter about the day,

1220
01:06:27,556 --> 01:06:31,276
Speaker 8: right right right, Coming from the song.

1221
01:06:34,196 --> 01:06:39,276
Speaker 1: I grave and then I'm not avery one.

1222
01:06:42,116 --> 01:06:44,596
Speaker 6: We're out of the from the mirror. It's getting out

1223
01:06:44,636 --> 01:06:46,116
Speaker 6: of a clearer They.

1224
01:06:45,836 --> 01:06:46,876
Speaker 2: Saying is to laugh.

1225
01:06:48,796 --> 01:06:50,956
Speaker 1: This is the place I'm stuck with. I wish you

1226
01:06:51,076 --> 01:06:57,236
Speaker 1: lots of luck with your iPhones over the grass, Yeah,

1227
01:06:57,236 --> 01:06:58,876
Speaker 1: I think again, written.

1228
01:07:00,156 --> 01:07:03,276
Speaker 2: Chicily. Yeah, I mean that's a really silly song. Yeah,

1229
01:07:03,756 --> 01:07:08,676
Speaker 2: it actually came came to me in a dream. Doesn't

1230
01:07:08,716 --> 01:07:11,196
Speaker 2: that sound like the pretentious artists. I woke up one

1231
01:07:11,236 --> 01:07:14,676
Speaker 2: morning and I head, oh, do do do do? Dude

1232
01:07:14,676 --> 01:07:15,916
Speaker 2: are stuck in my head and I thought, what the

1233
01:07:15,956 --> 01:07:18,996
Speaker 2: hell is that? That's really dopey, but it's stuck with me,

1234
01:07:19,116 --> 01:07:21,836
Speaker 2: and I thought, maybe it's a really silly song and

1235
01:07:21,916 --> 01:07:23,956
Speaker 2: what the hell is it? And then I thought, do

1236
01:07:24,196 --> 01:07:27,476
Speaker 2: ray Me. Oh, I wouldn't if I could do a

1237
01:07:27,556 --> 01:07:31,396
Speaker 2: dough ray me song. That's different too, but use different

1238
01:07:31,476 --> 01:07:34,956
Speaker 2: rhymes and you know meanings to dough a deer a

1239
01:07:35,076 --> 01:07:38,796
Speaker 2: female deer, right, So it's a dough ray me song.

1240
01:07:39,076 --> 01:07:41,116
Speaker 2: And it was just have fun with the words with

1241
01:07:41,236 --> 01:07:45,716
Speaker 2: the wordplay and just do something really really silly and

1242
01:07:45,956 --> 01:07:47,716
Speaker 2: it's funny. A friend of mine listened to it and

1243
01:07:47,796 --> 01:07:49,516
Speaker 2: he said, this says like it could be a kids

1244
01:07:49,596 --> 01:07:52,476
Speaker 2: song written for kids. That never occurred to me. I

1245
01:07:52,556 --> 01:07:56,516
Speaker 2: don't have kids, And I thought that's interesting thought. And

1246
01:07:56,636 --> 01:07:58,716
Speaker 2: I thought about it, and I could not have written

1247
01:07:58,796 --> 01:08:00,796
Speaker 2: this song but when I was back when I was

1248
01:08:00,836 --> 01:08:03,476
Speaker 2: in my twenties, because I was too serious like so

1249
01:08:03,636 --> 01:08:06,676
Speaker 2: many young people, you know, you take yourself way too seriously,

1250
01:08:06,796 --> 01:08:09,556
Speaker 2: and you're in your twenties. So I had to you know,

1251
01:08:09,636 --> 01:08:12,316
Speaker 2: all this time had to go by for me to

1252
01:08:12,396 --> 01:08:15,436
Speaker 2: be able to write a kid's song, which is kind

1253
01:08:15,476 --> 01:08:15,916
Speaker 2: of interesting.

1254
01:08:15,996 --> 01:08:17,676
Speaker 1: It's great some of the some of the best kids

1255
01:08:17,716 --> 01:08:21,836
Speaker 1: songs aren't necessarily written, yeah, you know, for kids. It's

1256
01:08:21,876 --> 01:08:23,476
Speaker 1: not like, you know, I don't think there's like a

1257
01:08:23,596 --> 01:08:25,116
Speaker 1: great kids song.

1258
01:08:25,916 --> 01:08:26,116
Speaker 5: You know.

1259
01:08:26,956 --> 01:08:28,356
Speaker 2: Actually I'd never really thought about it.

1260
01:08:28,436 --> 01:08:30,436
Speaker 1: But so it's like Randy Newman might be one of

1261
01:08:30,476 --> 01:08:32,236
Speaker 1: the more successful ones in modern times, but it's like

1262
01:08:32,276 --> 01:08:35,156
Speaker 1: it's not like he's specifically ever thought of himself someone

1263
01:08:35,236 --> 01:08:36,156
Speaker 1: write songs.

1264
01:08:35,876 --> 01:08:39,916
Speaker 2: For kids, you know, just that it's funny. I mean,

1265
01:08:39,916 --> 01:08:43,036
Speaker 2: I thought it had a place on the album that

1266
01:08:43,156 --> 01:08:45,396
Speaker 2: there was a place in the office, something just really

1267
01:08:45,476 --> 01:08:49,396
Speaker 2: completely silly and yeah, you know, just humorous. And it

1268
01:08:49,516 --> 01:08:53,676
Speaker 2: doesn't it doesn't mean anything really, it's just wordplay, having

1269
01:08:53,756 --> 01:08:54,516
Speaker 2: fun with words.

1270
01:08:54,876 --> 01:08:58,236
Speaker 1: And yeah, although I said that there must be there's

1271
01:08:58,316 --> 01:09:03,516
Speaker 1: probably something like, you know, like there's some dissatisfaction with Yeah.

1272
01:09:03,356 --> 01:09:06,116
Speaker 2: There's a sort of self deprecating thing about it. I

1273
01:09:06,236 --> 01:09:08,556
Speaker 2: was trying to think of all the different meanings of

1274
01:09:08,596 --> 01:09:12,676
Speaker 2: these sounds. Do ray me far? You know, Yeah, it's

1275
01:09:12,756 --> 01:09:15,476
Speaker 2: just fun to write. It's fun to play with me,

1276
01:09:15,636 --> 01:09:17,436
Speaker 2: me me when I look in the mirror, you know,

1277
01:09:17,916 --> 01:09:24,116
Speaker 2: oh my god. So it's like making fun of myself

1278
01:09:24,436 --> 01:09:26,516
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways and just just having a

1279
01:09:26,596 --> 01:09:29,196
Speaker 2: bit of fun. So it balances some of the more

1280
01:09:29,236 --> 01:09:31,356
Speaker 2: serious moments on the album, although I do think it's

1281
01:09:31,436 --> 01:09:33,196
Speaker 2: generally a pretty upbeat album.

1282
01:09:33,356 --> 01:09:35,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you do you feel like? Do you ever?

1283
01:09:36,156 --> 01:09:39,036
Speaker 1: Do you ever That's maybe a bad way of phrasing it,

1284
01:09:39,196 --> 01:09:42,276
Speaker 1: but do you ever wish your band had been more

1285
01:09:42,316 --> 01:09:44,316
Speaker 1: of a band in terms of not having your name

1286
01:09:44,396 --> 01:09:44,596
Speaker 1: on it?

1287
01:09:45,996 --> 01:09:48,236
Speaker 2: No? I wish to be really really glad that it

1288
01:09:48,396 --> 01:09:52,476
Speaker 2: wasn't that. Okay, yeah, because I don't get stuck with that,

1289
01:09:55,876 --> 01:09:57,316
Speaker 2: you know, Well, I like so and so, but I

1290
01:09:57,476 --> 01:10:01,516
Speaker 2: like X the band you know better, right, they cannot

1291
01:10:02,036 --> 01:10:03,996
Speaker 2: they cannot throw that at me because it's always just

1292
01:10:04,076 --> 01:10:05,836
Speaker 2: been I always felt like, no, I'm just going to

1293
01:10:05,876 --> 01:10:08,396
Speaker 2: take responsibility for myself. It's not going to be a

1294
01:10:08,436 --> 01:10:11,596
Speaker 2: band name and then I have to change it or

1295
01:10:11,676 --> 01:10:15,396
Speaker 2: try to live it down or whatever. You know. I

1296
01:10:15,476 --> 01:10:17,596
Speaker 2: think that was the right decision in the first place.

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01:10:17,756 --> 01:10:22,036
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's uh. I'm happy to hear it, man, And

1298
01:10:22,116 --> 01:10:24,436
Speaker 1: thanks for all the music over the years, you know,

1299
01:10:24,516 --> 01:10:25,516
Speaker 1: even the ones you don't like.

1300
01:10:25,756 --> 01:10:31,436
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all right. It's a good album, right, some

1301
01:10:31,556 --> 01:10:34,516
Speaker 2: good ideas on anything it does. I mean, I quite

1302
01:10:34,556 --> 01:10:39,396
Speaker 2: like the title track. Yeah, that's kind of fun. We

1303
01:10:39,476 --> 01:10:41,676
Speaker 2: thought about reviving it for this tour because somehow I

1304
01:10:41,716 --> 01:10:43,636
Speaker 2: haven't done it. We may do, who knows.

1305
01:10:44,196 --> 01:10:45,956
Speaker 1: If you can add that or oh well, you know,

1306
01:10:46,436 --> 01:10:51,876
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I've made my ma. Well great, nice to

1307
01:10:51,916 --> 01:10:57,716
Speaker 1: meet you man, Thank you it too. In the episode description,

1308
01:10:57,836 --> 01:10:59,516
Speaker 1: you'll find a linked to playlist of some of our

1309
01:10:59,556 --> 01:11:02,476
Speaker 1: favorite songs from Joe Jackson. Be sure to check out

1310
01:11:02,516 --> 01:11:05,356
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see all

1311
01:11:05,396 --> 01:11:07,676
Speaker 1: around the news, and be sure to follow us on

1312
01:11:07,796 --> 01:11:10,916
Speaker 1: Instagram at the Broken recod Broken Record is produced and

1313
01:11:11,076 --> 01:11:13,636
Speaker 1: edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler

1314
01:11:13,716 --> 01:11:17,716
Speaker 1: and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Pollinay. Broken Record

1315
01:11:17,796 --> 01:11:20,436
Speaker 1: is production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show

1316
01:11:20,636 --> 01:11:24,276
Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin

1317
01:11:24,316 --> 01:11:27,076
Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and

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01:11:27,156 --> 01:11:29,716
Speaker 1: ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look

1319
01:11:29,756 --> 01:11:32,996
Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you

1320
01:11:33,156 --> 01:11:35,316
Speaker 1: like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review

1321
01:11:35,396 --> 01:11:38,156
Speaker 1: us on your podcast app. Our theme music expec. Kenny Beats,

1322
01:11:38,316 --> 01:11:39,276
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.