1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 2: This week's Adult Education, We've got Emily Nagosky on, and 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 2: I'm really excited to talk to her because not only 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 2: is she a writer, educator, researcher, activists, she talks a 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: lot about sex and she's got some ted talks out there, 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 2: She's got a bunch of books. But let's get comfortable 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: with the idea of talking about sex. Hey, Emily, Hello, 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: how are you. 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm good? How are you good? 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: I am very excited to speak with you. You've got 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: obviously you know, your books and like you're just you're 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: doing a lot. You're talking, you know, very openly about sex, 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 2: which I think is a I have certain friends that 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: shy away from it, and then I have certain friends 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: that are like, let's talk about it, like a very 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: you know, loves loves to talk about sex. But I'm 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: curious the correlation with with you between because I used 18 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: to always just be like, if you're not having sex, 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: then we're not intimate, and that being kind of what 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: was in my brain of what intimacy was. But it's 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: so much more than that. So can you kind of 22 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: break that down with like the stigmas around, like, well, 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: if we're not having sex, then we're not intimate. 24 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so what does it mean to be intimate with someone? 25 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: For me, that's about the boundaries that you set, and 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: boundaries certainly can be about physical boundaries. There are limitations 27 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: on which parts of my body can be touched in 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: which ways by which people right, and we each get 29 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: to set those rules for ourselves, and those boundaries can 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: always be renegotiated and changed as a relationship changed. But 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: the more parts of your body you would let a 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: person touch in a wider variety of ways, that certainly 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: can be greater intimacy. And also there's the whole other 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: part of emotional intimacy. Lord knows there's an overlap between 35 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: emotional intimacy and physical intimacy, which is I think where 36 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: people conflate the two because they're not distinct from each other. 37 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: It requires a degree of emotional vulnerability to open yourself 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: up to being touched in parts of your body that 39 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: maybe for years of your life you were told are 40 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: shameful and dirty and wrong and bad and gross. So 41 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: to allow another person to have contact with those parts 42 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: of your body, and also to allow someone to have 43 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: those contact with parts of your personality, parts of your self, 44 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: parts of your identity that you were told by other 45 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: people were unacceptable. To share that with someone is to 46 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: be intimate. In my opinion, that's sort of the way 47 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: that the two are parallel. 48 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: Do you find it the people that I have a 49 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: hard time talking about sex? What? What? What do you 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: find comes up for them? That's the block with it? 51 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: Oh, they got raised to believe that it is unacceptable 52 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: to talk about sex. 53 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Okay. 54 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: These are people who struggle to talk about sex so 55 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: much that they can't even talk about sex with the 56 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: person they have sex with. 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: Right, how do you then kind of overcome that? 58 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: Then? 59 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: Like, how do you get comfortable with the fact with 60 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: the idea of talking about sex? 61 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: What a great question. A therapy is always an option, 62 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: but really it's about recognizing that if you are in 63 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: any way dissatisfied with your sex life, there is no 64 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: magic wand anyone can wave to make it better. To 65 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: sort of like psychically transmit to our partner this is 66 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: what I want, without you ever having to say the 67 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: words with your mouth or write them in a letter 68 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: or otherwise explicitly communicate to your partner what it is 69 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: that you want or to find out what it is 70 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: your partner has been waiting for and wanting, and you'd like, 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: how are you supposed to know? Many of us were 72 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: raised with the idea that to talk about sex is 73 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: it already means you're doing something wrong. There must be 74 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: something broken and dysfunctional and wrong with your relationship if 75 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: you have to talk about it. And the reality is 76 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: that the people who self identify as having extraordinary optimal 77 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: sex lives talk about sex all the time. The more 78 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: you talk about it, the better it gets. So it 79 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: starts with the what if? What if it? What if 80 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: it was okay for me to say these words out loud, 81 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: even just by myself. I'm in a room and I'm 82 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: just gonna say clitteris, glitteris, vulva, breast, labia, vagina, scrotum, penis. 83 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: What if it's okay to say those words? And it's 84 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: exact the same as saying elbow, toe, kneecapchin. They're just 85 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: exactly the same emotionally in the same way. Because we 86 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: can have our conversations with a partner about money, the kids, 87 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: where we want to live, jobs, politics, we can talk 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: with people about difficult, complicated things so if we have 89 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: the skill set to have those conversations, then we have 90 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: the skill set to talk about sexuality also when we 91 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: are willing to consider the possibility that it actually is 92 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: just as normal and acceptable and welcome a part of 93 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: life and connection as all those other things. 94 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 2: So funny though, because those words just I mean, even 95 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: when you're younger, it's like, you know, you don't say 96 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: like some of those words, you know, because there's not 97 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: that comfortable. 98 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have this feeling from you if you're being like, 99 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: I want to say the sentence without saying any of 100 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: those words. 101 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: I know, right, and like, I don't know why I can't, 102 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 2: but because I am pretty, I mean, I openly talk 103 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: about sex. I have no problem talking about sex. But yeah, 104 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: I can definitely see how it's not the easiest conversation 105 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: to have. I mean, you know, I'm curious for you. Okay, 106 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: so it's starting to say those words. But is there 107 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 2: something where I think, honestly, if it's a very vulnerable thing, 108 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: because if you start talking about sex in your marriage 109 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: and you put yourself out there, but then you get rejected, 110 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: and I think that's the piece that I would not 111 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: deal with good. I mean that happened in my last marriage, 112 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 2: you know, where I would say something about it and 113 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: then it would be that rejection like a yeah, and 114 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: so then it's kind of like, yeah, all right, well 115 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 2: it's not just it's you know, yeah, you take it personal. 116 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. So these are the things people are afraid of 117 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: if you're feeling personally motivated, like I want to talk 118 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: about it with my partner, but I am afraid either 119 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say something that hurts their feeling, is they 120 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: take it personally. They take it as an attack or criticism. 121 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: If they're not doing it right or right. 122 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: That there's somehow like irreversibly wrong with them and the relationship, 123 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: when the whole goal of having the conversation, of creating 124 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: that invitation to talk about it is I want this 125 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: to be better for us. I think there's more that's 126 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: available that we could create if we collaborate. You want 127 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: it to be an open door, and there's this fear 128 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: that your partner is gonna take it not that way, 129 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: or you're afraid you're going to say something about what 130 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: you want and like that's going to horrify your partner 131 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: and they're never gonna be able to look at you 132 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: the same way. Again, those are two of the big 133 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: fears that people bring into these conversations that really set 134 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: it apart from conversations about the kids, or money, or 135 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: politics or all the other hard things that we talk 136 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: about with each other. And to solve that, I really 137 00:07:53,240 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: recommend apart from therapy is having a conversation about the conversation. 138 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: So if you're worried that your partner's going to take 139 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: it personally, they're going to take it as an attack 140 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: or criticism. And many of us are raised to be 141 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: just so tender around topics related to sexuality. We take 142 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: the least like your partner just says something like a 143 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: little to the left or a little bit faster, a 144 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: little slower, a little harder, and you're like, oh, no, oh, 145 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: I'm a failure, I'm a bad person. There's something terribly 146 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: like No, they're giving you the input that you need 147 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: in order to be the best sex partner your partner 148 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: has ever had, which ultimately, like, I mean, let's face it, 149 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: that's the goal, right, Yeah, we want to be the 150 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: best our partner ever had. They're literally telling us. 151 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 2: How right. 152 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: Awesome. 153 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like infidelity would go down a 154 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: bit like if they're getting met in the bedroom too, if. 155 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: For no other reason than just because you're with someone 156 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: who listens to what you say you want and like 157 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: that is a component of. 158 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: A healthy dream. 159 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so have a conversation about the conversation, right, I 160 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: want to have a conversation about sex. I personally, this 161 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: is how you introduce it. I did not grow up 162 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: culturally being taught that it was okay to talk about sex. 163 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: But you and I we do it. We want to 164 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: do it. So what's stopping us from being able to 165 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: talk about a thing that we do together and being 166 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: able to say I'm worried you're gonna take it as 167 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: a personal attack. I'm worried that I'm gonna say something 168 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: that's going to gross you out. So are there may 169 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: be like some ground rules we can establish for in 170 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: case one of us feels activated in that way. We 171 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: have a plan for like taking like a fifteen second 172 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: deep breath ba break to just like let the emotions 173 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: come back down. Or you can talk about like what 174 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: the barriers are. Like When I was growing up, I 175 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: was taught that this part of life, this part of 176 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: my body, this part of these set of behaviors are 177 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: unacceptable to talk about. And I don't know what my 178 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: brain or body thinks is gonna happen if I talk 179 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: about it, But my body is totally convinced that if 180 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: I dare to tell you my favorite things you do, 181 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: something terrible is gonna happen, right like letting each other know? Yeah, 182 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: I I don't even There wasn't even an explicit moment 183 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: in my life when I remember being taught this message, 184 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: and yet I have this set, this fear that if 185 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: I say it out loud, something bad will happen. If 186 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: you got raised as a boy, in particular, you were 187 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: raised to believe that you're supposed to already know everything 188 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: there is to know. You're supposed to not require any feedback. 189 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: And and your partner's orgasm is do you know, like 190 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: a at a county fair, there's that strength tester machine, right, 191 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: You're using a hammer and you hit the thing and 192 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: the thing goes up and it goes ding, and that 193 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: ringing of the bell means you're a man. That's what 194 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: your partner's orgasm is. It means you're a man. And 195 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: so if your partner doesn't have an orgasm, then you're 196 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: not a man. And that is why a lot of 197 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: people start faking orgasms because they are tired, and they 198 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: both won. Their partner has made it clear that they're 199 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: not allowed to communicate what they want and like verbally 200 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: and two, so like their partner's not doing like the 201 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: ideal thing because you're not allowed to tell your partner 202 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: the ideal thing. And also like because it's not ideal, 203 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: it requires like time and energy. And so you he 204 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: needs to feel like a man. So you're just gonna 205 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: go ahead and help him out with that and show 206 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: him the orgasm that he feels like needs to happen. 207 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 2: Right, cool, Wow, I like the man. 208 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: Now. 209 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: I'm always going to think of you when I go 210 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: to a state fair. And so there you go. So 211 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: couples that have had kids and they're tired, like you said, 212 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 2: to get that spark back. 213 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: What is your groceries cooking meals. 214 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: If it's past a certain time, like I'm out, you know, 215 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: but like what is what is your tip for couples 216 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: that have lost that spark in the bedroom and how 217 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: to get that back. 218 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. So one of the most important research groups studying 219 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: sexuality now is the Optimal Sexual Experiences Group in Ottawa, Canada. 220 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: Peggy Klein Plotz and Dana Maynard published a book a 221 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: few years ago called Magnificent Sex. And if that's not 222 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: just the most appealing. 223 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 2: I mean a title, what I mean like grabbing that 224 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: one from the shelf. 225 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: The researchers interviewed dozens of people of all backgrounds and 226 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: ages who responded to a call for people, do you 227 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: have extraordinary, excellent, magnificent sex? We want to talk to 228 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: you and like, don't you want to know how you 229 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: get to be a person who has that kind of sex? 230 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: And don't you want to know what that kind of 231 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: sex is like? If you want to be like the 232 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: kind of people who self identify as having extraordinary, magnificent, 233 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: optimal sexual experiences. Spontaneous horniness desire for sex barely scrapes 234 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: into the top ten characteristics. That is not what people 235 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: who have great sex lives talk about when they talk 236 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: about great sex. So if you're not experiencing the spark, cool, 237 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: you're doing it the way people who have great sex 238 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 1: lives do it. They plan, they schedule, they talk about 239 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: it because it's like a shared hobby you talk to 240 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: your partner about, like your favorite musicians. You get excited 241 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: about the album that's coming out, and the concert you're 242 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: gonna go to, you plan, you go to the concert together, 243 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: and you have a great time, and then on the 244 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: way home, and for days and weeks after, you keep 245 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: talking about this great experience you had at the concert. 246 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: That's how people who have great sex treat their sex lives. 247 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: They talk about it all the time. They're so excited 248 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: to share, Like, you know what, last time when we 249 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: did this thing that was really interesting and I had 250 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: a great time, and also I was wondering if maybe 251 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: we could try this other thing next time. What do 252 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: you think about that? They have, Like while they're chopping vegetables, 253 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: they're talking about, what if we try this other thing. 254 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: I've never done that before. Oh man, there's a part 255 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: of me that's like, WHOA, that's probably not okay. But anytime, 256 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: what we've learned is that anytime my body goes WHOA, 257 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: that's not okay, I'm probably gonna love it. So don't 258 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: worry about spark you time set up A time scheduling 259 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: doesn't work for everybody. Some people have the kind of 260 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: brain that like if something isn't that stresses me, they 261 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: just shut down. 262 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm like if I know that it's coming 263 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: tonight at eight pm, like I'm out. I got a 264 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: little bit of a cough. 265 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: So my first question, there's two different ways that that 266 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: could be happening, and one could be just that you 267 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: have the kind of brain that when you feel like 268 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: it's expected or obligatory, you have like this persistent demand 269 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: for autonomy, and you're just like, because you told me, 270 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: I have to no, Like, if it weren't on the calendar, 271 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: I might be interested. 272 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: Mom's tired, you know, no matter, I need one more 273 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: thing on my list. Yeah. 274 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: So that brings up the other part, which is, okay, 275 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: so it's one more thing on your list, But do 276 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: you like the sex available in your relationship? Because if 277 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: it's on your calendar at eight o'clock tonight, and what 278 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: you see on your calendar is, ugh, it's such a project. 279 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: No, it's great, I love it, but great, yeah, awesome. 280 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: If you are if you like the sex it's available 281 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: in your relationship, you are doing it. If you don't 282 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: like the sex it's available in your relationship, which is 283 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: probably a lot of other people's experiences. Please know it's 284 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: gonna sound so obvious when I say it out loud, 285 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: but please know that it is not dysfunctional not to 286 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: want sex. You do not like. You are not you 287 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: do not have a desire problem. If you don't like 288 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: the sex and don't want sex, you don't like you 289 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: have a pleasure problem. So the question is what kind 290 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: of sex is worth wanting? What kind of sex is 291 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: worth cordoning off the time and energy that is definitely 292 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: required in order for you to see it on your 293 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: calendar and not go. 294 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 2: Ugh, yeah, Emily, you're fascinating, you really are. 295 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: Can I just say that the other side of it, 296 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: where like you like the sex, you know that you 297 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: would have a good time. I would say, think about 298 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: it the same way you think about maybe like working 299 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: out or eating a giant mountain of vegetables. Love is 300 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: have you never had the experience where like I know 301 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: that if I just put on my shoes and went 302 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: out the door, I would be so glad I did that. 303 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: I know I would have a good time. 304 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: It's like my rum this morning. Did I want to run? 305 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: No? 306 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 2: But did I do it? Yes? And do I feel 307 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 2: like were you glad? Yeah? Great? Okay, good. That's a 308 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 2: great way to think of it. That's a really good 309 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 2: way to switch it. Like if you like them. 310 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, the people who are like I hate to exercise, 311 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: that's not a useful metaphor. So maybe like going to parties. 312 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: You know, you say yes, it's your best friend and 313 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: a party, of course, yes, and then the date approaches 314 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm gonna have to find childcare. Yeah, 315 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: it gonna be so tired, it's gonna be traffic. Do 316 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: I really want to put on hard pants and the week? 317 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: But you show up because it's a party and your 318 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: best friend, and if you have a good time at 319 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: the party, you're doing it right. 320 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: You You are great? Sum up for me? Last question, 321 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 2: what is your definition of intimacy? 322 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: For me, it's about daring to allow another person to 323 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: see and feel the parts of me that I feel 324 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: really belong in who I am. But there are a 325 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: lot of people who if I showed them those parts 326 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: of me, whether it's emotional or intellectual or physical, they 327 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: would not agree with me that those parts are good. 328 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: Great, I love it, Emily, tell us where, tell our 329 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 2: listeners where they can find you, and all the things 330 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 2: you've got going on. 331 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: Oh, mostly it's about the books. Come as you Are 332 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: is the first one. That's the one that's about basically 333 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: women's sexuality come together as the one for folks in 334 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: long term sexual relationships. And if you are listening to 335 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: this and being like I don't, I can't even get 336 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: five hours of sleep A night. Burnout is a book 337 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: I co wrote with my twin that's about people who've 338 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: been trained to believe that they are pretty happy, calm, generous, 339 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: and unfailingly attentive to the needs of others, but they 340 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: cannot cannot get anyone to care for their needs as 341 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: much as they care for others. 342 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: I love it. Emily, Thank you so much for coming 343 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 2: on my pleasure.