1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: answers one question. Now, what the idea that I would 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: ever take Asian food to school in my lunch? Oh 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: my god, that was like unfathomable. Today, my kids like 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: they take noodles and seaweed packets, and so I saw 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: us back. I think it's just so funny. They'd take 16 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: him chee if I would let them. But it's just 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: it has a very strong smell that would that might 18 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: be a problem. It's that's my view where I would 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: draw the line exactly. It's delicious, but you know it's 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: just it's a very strong I feel if you said this, 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: and it just made me, it partially made me so sad. 22 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: A few of the people in the particular show that 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: I saw saying not wanting to smell like Chinese food, 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: Whereas to me, growing up, I knew it was like 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: a happy time for my mom and I, you know, 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: we were that meant we were going to be together 27 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: and we were going to eat great food and it 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: was so important. Like it's so funny how sense memory 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: affects us differently. I love hearing you say that, Brooke, 30 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: because it just goes to show, like what a part 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: of American culture Chinese food has become. My guest today 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: is award winning journalist and author Lee sa Ling. Lisa 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: has been a leader in news for decades, covering stories 34 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: for CNN, ABC, National Geographic. The list goes on. Her 35 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: big break came when she was just twenty one and 36 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: was sent to Afghanistan to cover its civil war. That 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: experienced shaped her immensely, and she since dedicated her career 38 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: to amplifying marginalized voices. I've watched an admiration as she's 39 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: gone on to develop an incredible body of work, including 40 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: This Is Life with Lisa Ling, which ran for nine 41 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: seasons on CNN and take Out, a fascinating docuseries currently 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: streaming on HBO Max. She's a true badass, and she's 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: an incredible storyteller, and I'm so thrilled to share a 44 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: conversation with all of you. So here is Lisa Ling. 45 00:02:54,639 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: Lisa Ling, so happy to see her smiling face, to 46 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: see you Brook. Now. I know more of you than 47 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: I do know you personally, but in some weird way, 48 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: I feel like we really do know each other. And 49 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: that's one of the beauties of what you put out there. 50 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: People think that they really know you. But I always 51 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: love to ask guests because in my life I'm always 52 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: slightly disappointed in how I'm introduced because it seems like 53 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: it's produced to the lowest common denominator or something that 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: I'm not really proud of or something. So how would 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: you like to be introduced? Or who is Leaslay? What 56 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: answer that question? We? Well, first of all, thank you 57 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: for having me, and I feel the same about you. 58 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: While we haven't spent much time together, you were part 59 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: of my upbringing. I feel like we in some ways 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: grew up together. I like to be introduced as a 61 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: mother and a storyteller, journalist, a lover of eighties music 62 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: and an eighties pop culture, which is why you were 63 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: such a fixture of it for me and someone who 64 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: is always trying to connect our fellow humans with one another. 65 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: See that is beautiful and it is what you've done. 66 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: And I love that you put mother first, which is 67 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: so so interesting. Can we go back a little bit 68 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: just to sort of talk about how you came to 69 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: be and where you came from because your parents immigrated 70 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: right to the US before you were born. Correct, yes, yes, 71 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,119 Speaker 1: they came at very different times. My father was ten 72 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: when his family immigrated to the United States. His parents 73 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: were highly educated people. My grandfather had an MBA from 74 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: University of Colorado because he had studied in the United 75 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: States a couple of decades before they actually immigrated, and 76 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: my grandmother had a music degree from from cambrid in England. 77 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: But because they were Chinese, he couldn't get a job 78 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: in finance and she couldn't get a job in the 79 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: professional world, so they ended up doing odd jobs and 80 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: eventually scraped together enough money to open a Chinese restaurant 81 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: in Carmichael, California, which is a suburb of Sacramento. When 82 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: neither of my grandparents even knew how to cook, but 83 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: they realized that it was one of the only pathways 84 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: to being able to kind of eke out some semblance 85 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: of the American dream. And so I grew up in Carmichael, California, 86 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: And at the time when my family settled there, there 87 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: were no Asians. It was not a diverse community at all. 88 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 1: But my family could settle there because they spoke perfect English. 89 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: And was that difficult, Like, was it because it's all 90 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: you've known, But behaviorally from other people, I've heard you 91 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about it, it was. I was 92 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: never physically harassed, and I was never I never felt 93 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: discrimination from any of the adults. But the kids teased me. 94 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: I mean there were kids who literally teased me every 95 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: single day throughout middle school and high school. God, you know, 96 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: I had more nicknames than any any other kid that 97 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: I know. And it wasn't malicious. But when you're a 98 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: kid who is different from everyone else and your differences 99 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: are highlighted regularly, you know at that age when all 100 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: you want to do is fit in, All you want 101 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: to do is just be like everyone else accepted. Yeah, 102 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: those things are hard. Do you think it gave you 103 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: a certain resilience to just forge ahead. For sure, I 104 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: definitely think that it really drove me to one leave 105 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: that area to seek out a place that was more diverse, 106 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: but also to kind of proved to everyone else that 107 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: I was going to be not only okay, but that 108 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: I was going to survive through it and thrive. I 109 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: imagine it also gave you a certain amount of empathy 110 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: to provide a place for people to be heard. I 111 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: do think Brooke that that's one of the reasons why 112 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: over so many years, people have come to trust me, 113 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: Because I do think that so many of the stories 114 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: that I've worked on, you know, deal with people whose 115 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: voices are rarely heard, who don't get an opportunity to 116 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: speak out much and tell their own stories. And I 117 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 1: do believe that my background and kind of going through 118 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: similar kinds of things has allowed me to better understand people. 119 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: I'm as guilty as anyone for having preconceived ideas about 120 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: what someone's going to be like, what a community is 121 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: going to be like, but I do really try hard 122 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: in every experience that I have, in any every interview 123 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: that I conduct, I think to myself, you know, put 124 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: whatever a pans or judgments you have aside and really 125 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 1: just have a human to human conversation with this person, 126 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: irrespective of what you know he or she or they 127 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: may have done or may be accused of. For this 128 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: hour that we are sitting across from each other, just 129 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: have a conversation and allow this person to share their 130 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,239 Speaker 1: hearts and their truth and their truth. I also think 131 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: that in the same way that you say you're as 132 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: guilty as everybody, I think so many people in this 133 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: country are extremely guilty of lumping the entire Asian community 134 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: in one place. For sure. And you yourself had your 135 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: mother was Taiwanese, correct, My mom's Taiwanese and your father 136 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: is Chinese. And did they share any of their cultural 137 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: history as you were growing up? Did they teach you 138 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: everything about it? They really didn't. And I think that's 139 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: a very common thing among the children of a particularly 140 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: immigrant Asians. You know, maybe it's because I'm part of it, 141 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's a highly repressed culture, you know, 142 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: which is why I think so many of us really 143 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: carry so many layers of generational trauma that continues to 144 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: go unresolved and really impact us for generations. You know, 145 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: so many of our families went through you know, war 146 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: and crisis and trauma. But you know, unless they were 147 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: forced to confront it, they just kind of have buried it. 148 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: I mean, the whole sort of immigrating from distant lands 149 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: to this country where they felt so unwelcomed, right where 150 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: they were looked at as second class citizens, where they 151 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: just had to had to survive. You know, it's mind 152 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: boggling to me. So that's a long way of saying 153 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: that my parents did not communicate a lot of those 154 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: things that they went through in their past. But why 155 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: I have become such an advocate for our community really 156 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: addressing so many of these mental health issues that plague us. 157 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: When I started at the View with Barbara Walters, she 158 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: took me to lunch one day and started asking me 159 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: questions about my mom and my mom and dad divorced 160 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: when I was seven and she moved to Los Angeles. 161 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: I was still in northern California, And when Barbara Walters 162 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: started asking me those questions, I broke down. I mean, 163 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: she's just she has a knack for just making people 164 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: cry in an instant, like this is all true. But 165 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: I became emotionally because the truth was I didn't really 166 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: know anything about my mom's past. I just knew that 167 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: I harbored some resentment for her because of the divorce 168 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: and because she moved, And so that compelled me to 169 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: get myself into therapy and to start having conversations with 170 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: my mom, where I even took her back to Taiwan 171 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: and man Brooke. That was such a hard trip because 172 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: she thought that she was closing the book on so 173 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: many of the things that she experienced as a young 174 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,479 Speaker 1: person in Taiwan, which were really dark and ugly. But 175 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: that action of taking her to confront those things and 176 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: then talking about them and understanding her really allowed me 177 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: a deeper level of understanding of what she went through. 178 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: And eventually, although it took a lot of work, all 179 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: those feelings of resentment and abandonment just dissipated because I 180 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: better understood why she did the things that she did. 181 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: How did she feel at the end of it? Was 182 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: she thankful or was she she regret it? I think 183 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: she was so thankful. Again, as hard as it was, 184 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: I saw her in a different light, you know, like 185 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: I developed a kind of respect for her that I 186 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: can honestly say I didn't really have. Were you were 187 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: able to forgive her? Oh? Yeah? It was the first step. 188 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this has been a process, Brook and you know, 189 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: plant medicines have even contributed to this, to the process 190 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: as well. Right, that's a whole other way story. I 191 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: wish I could I'm the worst, but it was a huge, 192 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: huge first step, and I think both of us realized 193 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: that it was a path that we had to continue 194 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: to walk on. How did your dad react to that? 195 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: You know, I think my dad, because my mom's the 196 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: one who left, has just always been bitter, you know. 197 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: But you know, he's a very idiosyncratic person. And as 198 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: much as I love him, I mean, he was my 199 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: first love. I couldn't be buried to my dad. He's 200 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: very a tough guy. And again like that that also, 201 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: my parents are such different people. They really should have 202 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: never been together in the first place. They kind of had, 203 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, what amounted to like an arranged marriage. And 204 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: so I think that I've forgiven my mom for leaving 205 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: my dad because I know how my dad has been. 206 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: But what what what I did with my mom has 207 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: really been pivotal. And I channel this in my work 208 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: a lot, because people share with me things that they 209 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: may have never shared with their closest friends or family members, 210 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: And so often when I'm engaged in conversation with people, 211 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: they often go back to something that happened in their 212 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: own childhood, right that led them onto the path where 213 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: they are today. And one of the questions that very 214 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: often comes up when I talk to people who I 215 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: don't know may be incarcerated, or you know, we're self medicating, 216 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: or you know, started to pursue sex work for example. 217 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: You know, I often in the end ask them like, 218 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: what would seven year old Jason think about what you're 219 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: doing now? Well, what do you think that seven year 220 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: old Lisa would think about that trip and her life? 221 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: I mean, if I could talk to seven year old Lisa, 222 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: whose parents were going through that divorce that was so 223 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: traumatizing for me that you know, used to keep me 224 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: up crying in bed, you know, regularly, I would just 225 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: tell her it's going to be okay, that that that 226 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: her parents were such different people, and that in some 227 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: cases it might be better for the two of them 228 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: to not be together, that you could experience them as 229 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: independent individuals, that they didn't need to be together in 230 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: order for them and for you to feel like you 231 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: have a happy life. It doesn't appear that you relied 232 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: on anybody else to move yourself forward. You go to college, 233 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: but you leave, you leave before you graduate, which is 234 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: so risky to take your first job. How did you 235 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: find the courage to that? What was the reaction by 236 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: your parents or your peers and family? Right, my my 237 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: Asian parents, who were all about you know, education, which 238 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: is why they were right right, right, You know, my 239 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: parents were actually very understanding because I had a job 240 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: that was a kinder graduate school. I mean, I would 241 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: never encourage anyone to drop out of college for just 242 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: any job. But I had a job that was sending 243 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: me all over the world to cover stories that were, 244 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, we're making headline news, the civil war in Afghanistan, 245 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: the democracy movement throughout China, throughout Iran, even drug wars 246 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: throughout South America, the Russian referendum elections. So and you're 247 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: twenty one. I was in my early twenties. I'm sorry 248 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: my nineteens, really like, what path did you have to take? 249 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: Because that's unheard enough to put a twenty one year 250 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: old in Afghanistan in both places and expect that a 251 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: they won't be traumatized, but be that they will have 252 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: the wherewithal to stay focused and get through it. Yeah, 253 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: I was really lucky. I auditioned for a show that 254 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: was seen in middle schools and high schools across the 255 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: country called Channel one News, and because it was as 256 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: a show that was seen in schools, they hired young 257 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: looking correspondence to cover and deliver the news. So Anderson Cooper, 258 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: before he was totally gray, was one of my colleagues 259 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: at Channel one, and they would with regularity send us 260 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: into the world. And you know, when I went to Afghanistan, 261 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: I went with the Red Cross, you know, which, as 262 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, as a highly reputable NGO. And back then, 263 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: when you traveled with NGOs, the likelihood of something happening 264 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: would be far less than had you not gone in 265 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: with them. So I felt pretty secure. And the world 266 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: was a different place too, it really was. I don't 267 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: think that Americans had the same kinds of targets on 268 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: our backs at the time. And for me, I've just 269 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: I've always been a kid who just was insatiably curious, 270 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: who never had a chance to really see much of 271 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: the world because I didn't have the money to do so. 272 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: So that chance to travel to distant locations and communicate 273 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: what I was seeing was so incredible, an eye opening, 274 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: And I'm sure you had multiple experiences, but was there 275 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: anyone one thing that happened during those years in that 276 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: time that just stood out to you. I mean, yeah, 277 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: and I'll keep this short, but you mentioned Afghanistan or 278 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: I mentioned Afghanistan. I mean that trip when I was 279 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: twenty one. I was a sophomore at the University of 280 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: Southern California, and you know, Afghanistan was a place that 281 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: I couldn't even identify on a map at that time, 282 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: and most of the people in my world couldn't identify 283 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: it either, and I probably still can't well exactly exactly. 284 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: And when we landed and I was immediately surrounded by 285 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: young boys who were armed to the teeth carrying weapons 286 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: that were larger than they were, what I saw was 287 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: so just shocked me to the core. And coming back 288 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: from that experience, I tried to engage my friends and 289 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: my colleagues about what I'd just seen there, and no 290 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: one had any clue that this scene existed in the world, 291 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: despite the fact that the United States was so deeply 292 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: embedded in Afghanistan, and that in fact, those very weapons 293 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: that some of those boys may have been carrying could 294 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: have been paid for by our country, by the United States. 295 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: For me that at that moment, I realized, like I 296 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: need to be Like, this is what I'm supposed to 297 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: be doing, is being out there, you know, whether it 298 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: was around the world or somewhere in my own backyard, 299 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: but communicating what I was seeing to a larger audience. 300 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: And you weren't even further. You wrote a book, correct 301 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: with your sister. Can you take me through a little 302 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: bit of that, because I was horrified when I heard 303 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: what had happened to her. Yeah. So in two thousand 304 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: and nine, my sister was working for an organization, a 305 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: news organization that al Gore was affiliated with, and they 306 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: were working on a story about the refugee crisis and 307 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: people who would risk their lives to escape from North 308 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: Korea finally to make it into China where they were 309 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: often exploited and forced into sex, slavery and other horrific conditions. 310 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: And as they're reporting on the border, they hired a fixer, 311 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: and we all hire fixers when we travel overseas, people 312 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: who have worked with press before to help them sort 313 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: of navigate the area. And when they were there, the 314 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: fixer led them over the border, and I don't even 315 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: think my sister and her colleagues really even realized that 316 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: they were over the border. And suddenly they heard shouting 317 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: and people running toward them, and they ran back into China, 318 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: and North Korean soldiers crossed over the border and violently 319 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: dragged my sister in her colleague back into North Korea, 320 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: where where they would stay for five months and be 321 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: held in captivity and eventually sentenced by the North Korean 322 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: government to twelve years hard labor. And it required former 323 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: President Clinton to go over and negotiate the release of 324 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: my sister in her colleague. And even when I talk 325 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: about it, it's like, oh, my god, I cannot believe 326 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: that actually happened. Did you have any communication with her 327 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: during that horrific time. Well, she was able to make 328 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: five calls during her five month captivity. Five months may 329 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: not sound like a lot, but when your sister is 330 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: inside the most reclusive, isolated country on Earth, you know, 331 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: one of our number one adversaries, it's terrifying. One day, 332 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, even yeah, I mean even you know, if 333 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: you're locked up in the most hardcore prison in the 334 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: United States, you can at least communicate or have visiting hours. 335 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: But you know, I didn't know that she had been 336 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: beaten with a rifle butt until after she had been 337 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: released from captivity. There was so much that we just 338 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: didn't know about her time there until she was released. 339 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: But I think all of my years of reporting and 340 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: developing connections with people really culminated in this moment. Anyone 341 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: in this situation would have done anything that they could 342 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: to have their their sibling released, And it was just 343 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: a crazy time surreal. Did your focus an approach to 344 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: reporting change in any way? You know? I it certainly has. 345 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: For my sister. She is far less inclined to want 346 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: to do international work, especially you know, to conflict zones. 347 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: For me, because I have young kids as well, let's 348 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: just say I will still go, but I definitely take 349 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: security far more seriously. But I also brook feel like 350 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: because that story that she was reporting on was prevented 351 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: from being told, it's actually even made me more defiant 352 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: about wanting to tell those untold stories, about the conveying 353 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: the importance of telling those stories and really supporting journalists 354 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 1: who take these enormous risks in order for us to 355 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: be able to consume, you know, incredibly important information. I 356 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: do feel that many women, so many women, especially women 357 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: of color, women over forty, you know, they've had to 358 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: sort of fight to take space and be heard or 359 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: have a voice or bring those stories. Yeah, do you 360 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: think that you've had to fight in anyway to get 361 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: those opportunities? Definitely, I definitely believe that. Or I feel 362 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: grateful that I've been able to stay in this business 363 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: as long as I have and have shows that have 364 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: carried my name on them for as many years as 365 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: I have. But that doesn't mean that I haven't dealt 366 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: with my share of discrimination in the workplace. And I 367 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: can speak for myself. I mean, I don't want to 368 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: speak on behalf of all Asian women, but I know 369 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: I have not been the best advocate for myself because 370 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: I never really saw that modeled for me. You know, 371 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: Asian women, you know, demanding their worth or taking up space, 372 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: and it's taking a lot of work, I think for 373 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: so many of us to dislodge those feelings and feel 374 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: confident and comfortable taking up the space that we deserve 375 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: to take up absolutely and learning how to advocate for yourself. 376 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: I mean, did you when when you are feeling those things, 377 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: are feeling that that being in that position. Did you 378 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: talk to your bosses, did you complain to anybody? Did 379 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: you have any path? Well, I've I've I've always, you know, 380 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: because of this business, you have to have them. You know. 381 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: I have great agents who are who are bulldogs, quite honestly, 382 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: and they've even said to me, Lisa, let us negotiate 383 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: your contract because we know that you would do it 384 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: for free. And I just let them because it's the truth, 385 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: because I'm not good at negotiating. I'm not good about, 386 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: you know, recognizing my own worth. I do the work 387 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 1: that I do because I'm deeply passionate about it, and 388 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: I feel so fortunate to be able to do it. 389 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: But I have not, I've really suffered from kind of 390 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, recognizing my worth. And so after a particular 391 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: incident many years ago, when I was told that at 392 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: TCA the Television Criticismiation, my show was going to be 393 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: extended for another year, but that this white male, this 394 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: white male, and this white male, we're going to have 395 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: their contracts extended for an additional year, so two years total. 396 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: I was sort of flummixed because my show performed similarly, 397 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,239 Speaker 1: if not better than some of those white males I 398 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: called my agent, and I said, will you please tell 399 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: the network that if anyone at TCA asks me why 400 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: I didn't why I was the only one who wasn't 401 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: getting her contract extended for two additional years, I will 402 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: respond by saying, well, maybe it's because I'm not white 403 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: and male enough. And immediately thereafter I got a call 404 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: saying that my contract was also going to be extended 405 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: for two years. And I hated doing that, brook, but 406 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: I realized that I had to do it, not just 407 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: for me, but for every woman, an Asian woman who 408 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: would come after me like I had to do this. 409 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: I had to take a stand on behalf of all 410 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: those other women who who didn't also have models for 411 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: standing up for ourselves. What advice would you give women 412 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,719 Speaker 1: who don't have a team of people around them, I 413 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: would say, start to find you find your women, allies 414 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: out there, women who who are in the workplace. You know, 415 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: I think we've gotten really good at being independent and 416 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: feeling like we need to do everything on our own, 417 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: but it's so important to find a community of like 418 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: minded individuals who can help you figure out ways to 419 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: advocate for yourself. You know, find those people that you 420 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: can bounce ideas off of who can empower you, look 421 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: for people who can mentor you or from whom you 422 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: think you can learn something and also be that person 423 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: for someone else. And that's a very important message because 424 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: I think we can learn from those who have learned 425 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: already how to advocate for themselves. I mean, it starts 426 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: this sort of community of women who are really genuinely 427 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: lifting each other up and who are not afraid of 428 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: someone else's success, as if that's a threat. And I 429 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: don't know if it was the show you were talking about, 430 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: but this is Life, which we've all loved and watched 431 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: for so long, that went nine seasons, Yes, nine, come 432 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: on that. I know, it's incredible, It's incredible. My colleague 433 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: was like, Friends ran for nine seasons. Friends are Seinfeld 434 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: one of them? Yeah, what was it like to finish 435 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: that show. I'll be honest with you, I was really 436 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: really sad because they're really don't I don't know. To me, 437 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: there's no other show like it, you know, that really 438 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: embeds and really tries to foster a deeper understanding of 439 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: our fellow humans. But at the same time, Brooke, I mean, 440 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't be proud of the work that We've done, 441 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: and there are other things that I want to do 442 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: as well. You know, I'm not I'm not done. And 443 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: even though I've reached middle age, I feel like I'm 444 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: just starting. I mean, you haven't wasted any time. Let's 445 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: just put it that way. You've gone and this is 446 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: great for your daughter in particular, to see is that 447 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: you keep going. But take Out is a food travel 448 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: docu series and it's on HBO Max, and you explore 449 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: the Asian food scene sort of in the US. If 450 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: there's so much, so many different I didn't know, and 451 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: I've traveled, but I haven't, but I was so ignorant 452 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: to so many different foods and cultures. And what struck 453 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: me is how in touch you became with your own 454 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: Asian history and pride and culture. That was almost it 455 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: was enhanced. Yes, your trip to Taiwan, I'm sure, but 456 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: even this show is able to do that and it 457 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: gets emotional. Well, yeah, this show really it's about Asian 458 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: American history. I mean really, it's about all of our history, 459 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like Asian American history is 460 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: American history. You know these stories of Japanese internment right 461 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: of you know, the first settlers Filipino settlers in the 462 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: Bayous of Louisiana who brought shrimp into the American diet. 463 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: You know, these are all stories that we all own, 464 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: right And for me, I think there was always this 465 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: sort of separation between being Asian and being American. But 466 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: it was really this realization that Asian Americans are kind 467 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: of its own culture. You know, being an American is 468 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: a distinctive identity undo itself. I am no more Asian 469 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: than I am American. Like it's a combination of all 470 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: these things. And just to be able to produce a 471 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: show about these buried stories and histories, stories that I 472 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: may have been ashamed of growing up because I was 473 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: so insecure about my Asian identity and really ashamed of 474 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: Asian food. Like the idea that I would I would 475 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: ever take Asian food to school in my lunch, Oh 476 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: my god, that was like unfathomable. Today, my kids like 477 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: they take noodles and seaweed packets and so I sauce back. 478 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: I like, it's just so funny. They take kim chee 479 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: if I would let them. But it's just it has 480 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: a very strong smell that would that might be a problem. 481 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: It's odorous, that might be where I would draw the 482 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: line exactly, it's delicious, but you know it's just you know, 483 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: strong smell. You also, a few of you said this, 484 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: and it just made me. It partially made me so 485 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: sad a few of the people in the particular show 486 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: that I saw saying not wanting to smell like Chinese food. 487 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: Whereas to me growing up, that was a happy time 488 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: for my mom and I, you know, we were that 489 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: meant that just meant we were going to be together 490 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: and we were going to eat great food and it 491 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: was so important. Like it's so funny how sense memory 492 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: affects us differently. I love hearing you say that broke 493 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: because it just goes to show like what a part 494 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: of American culture Chinese food has become. The show is 495 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: called Nawa And I always just would like to touch 496 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: upon a pivotal moment in your life that you've experienced 497 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: where you've had to really ask the question, now, what 498 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: and how did you go forward? Well, I mean I 499 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: have been sort of asking that lately. You know, when 500 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: my show ended, I mean I was doing a show 501 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: for nine seasons, that's nine years, and before that, my 502 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: show on Oprah's network own that was five seasons, so 503 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about fourteen years of my life, 504 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: and so when that ended, you know, that's a question 505 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: that I still have been asking. I mean, I know, 506 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: in my heart of hearts, I'm just beginning and there's 507 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: so many things left to do and so many stories 508 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: that need to be told. But figuring out, like what 509 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: pat what kind of platform? What you know, how to 510 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,719 Speaker 1: go about telling these kinds of stories, you know, just 511 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: given that I have been so sort of entrenched in 512 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: a particular style, a particular method of storytelling. So I'm 513 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: kind of going through that now, and I but I 514 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: feel fortunate that I have, throughout my life in career 515 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: kind of stood for something and that I like to 516 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: think that I still have a kind of credibility that 517 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: will allow me to continue telling similar kinds of stories 518 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: that have depth and meaning and that my kids will 519 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: be proud of. That was the amazing Lisa Ling. If 520 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: you want to hear more from her, go watch Take 521 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: Out with Lisa Ling, streaming now on HBO Max. Do 522 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: you have a guess that you'd like to hear on 523 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: the show, Head over to Apple Podcasts and leave a comment. Oh, 524 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: while you're at it, please Please don't forget to rate 525 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: and review the show. It helps me learn and it 526 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: helps new listeners follow us. Thanks for listening now, What 527 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: with Brookshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead producer 528 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and editing 529 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: by Darby Masters and Abou Zafar. Our executive producer is 530 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahed Fraser.