WEBVTT - The Gen Z Protests that Shook India's Fascist Government

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to ACODAP and here a podcast where sometimes the

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<v Speaker 2>here is the world's largest democracy, and that I think

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<v Speaker 2>I'm actually not sure how many Americans are aware of it.

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<v Speaker 2>This is, in fact India a very basic factor of

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<v Speaker 2>democracies around the world.

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<v Speaker 3>If you're colling either the US or India the world's

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<v Speaker 3>largest democracy, you got to put an asterisk.

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<v Speaker 4>We'll get to that land of asterisks, Age of asterisks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, with you to talk about the age of asterisks

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe how to get out of it is Robert Evans.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, asterisking on that too. Why not?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, And I'm me a long. I guess asterisk

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<v Speaker 2>there too. Sure, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>I got nothing, I got nothing. Well, what are we

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<v Speaker 4>talking about today, Maya.

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<v Speaker 2>We are talking about the fact that a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>weeks ago in India, protesters managed to accomplish something that

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<v Speaker 2>is unprecedented in the twelve year reign of Indian Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister and enemy of the show, the butcher Gujarad himself

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<v Speaker 2>one Prime Minister.

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<v Speaker 4>Modi Narindra Modi, thank you very much. Yep, hate him,

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<v Speaker 4>Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The entire time he has been in power, no one

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<v Speaker 2>has successfully been able to manage to force him to

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<v Speaker 2>make a countet member resign. No, and protesters just did this.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this is the first.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not the first because there was the most recent

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<v Speaker 3>set of elections didn't go great for him. But this

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<v Speaker 3>is like the biggest break in his armor we've seen

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<v Speaker 3>since the Modi regime kind of clanked into place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and to understand sort of what that means, we

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<v Speaker 2>need to talk a bit about why Robert was like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>asteriskth that's a democracy.

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<v Speaker 4>On both this in the US. Yeah, which is that?

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<v Speaker 2>So Mody's ruling party is the BJP, and I would

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<v Speaker 2>classify the BJP as the world's largest fascist party. It

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<v Speaker 2>has a horrifying one hundred and forty million members Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>Age Christ.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, not good, very bad. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's also like not the only ultra right

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<v Speaker 2>wing Hindi nationalist party in India, there are also others.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, great, great things happening here.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is why you've had ethnic cleansings against Muslims

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<v Speaker 3>and other non Hindu groups and chunks of India over

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<v Speaker 3>the mooty years.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So they've been in power like effectively uncontested. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't do great in last lessons, but they held

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<v Speaker 2>on to power and they've been in power for twelve

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<v Speaker 2>years now, during which they have both transformed Indian politics

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<v Speaker 2>and also just continued to get more and more right wing. Yep,

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<v Speaker 2>there's something I think is worth mentioning with the BJP,

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<v Speaker 2>which is that it's not like most political parties, even

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<v Speaker 2>fascist ones, in that it's not like it's a political

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<v Speaker 2>party that like developed up prime military right. The VJP

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<v Speaker 2>was developed as the political wing of, you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>very very far right, anti Muslim like Hindu nationalists parabilitary

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<v Speaker 2>group called the RSS, which is responsible for a whole

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of absolutely hideous crimes even before the BJP took

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<v Speaker 2>power or even existed. So again, like, this is a

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<v Speaker 2>ruling party that is like the political wing of a

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<v Speaker 2>parabilitary not the other way around. And it's been running

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<v Speaker 2>India for twelve years. And as Robert sort of mentioned before,

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<v Speaker 2>the BJP has faced some challenges to their power. They've

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<v Speaker 2>also faced large scale protest movements before, most notably sort

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<v Speaker 2>of the Farmer's protests in twenty twenty and then twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four, which were about attempts to implement right wing

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<v Speaker 2>market reforms to India's like agricultural markets. But they've successfully

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<v Speaker 2>been able to maintain this policy of just refusing to

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<v Speaker 2>dismiss government ministers in the face of protests until now.

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<v Speaker 2>So what has actually been happening.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so these protests.

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<v Speaker 2>Have been rallying under the banner of I guess kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a meme organization or meme.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it started as a as a joke, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's called the Cockroach Johnson Party,

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<v Speaker 2>which is named after these comments. They were made by

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<v Speaker 2>India's Chief Justice of like the Indian Supreme Court calling

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<v Speaker 2>young unemployed people, quote, parasites and cockroaches.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a little bit of a reversal of like the

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<v Speaker 3>Hillary Clinton deplorables comment, where this person in politics uses

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<v Speaker 3>a derogatory nickname to refer to a group of people

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<v Speaker 3>he's opposed to and they kind of take it on

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<v Speaker 3>as a badge of honor.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And because it's fascist, right right, it's also yeah, fascist,

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<v Speaker 2>the Chief Justice Supreme Court is calling them cockroaches.

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<v Speaker 4>Jesus Christ. Yeah, this party is like obviously a joke.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like CJP like cockroach instead of BJP, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. That the main focus of these protests are

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<v Speaker 2>a series of scandals in India's education system, and it

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<v Speaker 2>feels kind of redundant to say, like, oh, yeah, like

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<v Speaker 2>what kind of education do you get? Has a huge

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<v Speaker 2>amount of you know, sort of determinants in like what

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<v Speaker 2>your life turns out to be and what your economic

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<v Speaker 2>conditions turns out to be in a sort of more

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<v Speaker 2>intense version of like the way that American sanitized testing works.

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<v Speaker 2>But there are a bunch of these sanitized tests that

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<v Speaker 2>you take that can determine a whole bunch about what

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<v Speaker 2>your future is going to be. And I think mostly obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>there have been a couple of big scandals recently, but

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<v Speaker 2>the most famous one is called the Neat scandal. Neat

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<v Speaker 2>and Eat is is basically it's India's like pre med exam. Basically, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's this huge exam that everyone who wants to go

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<v Speaker 2>into pre med has to take and get a certain

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<v Speaker 2>grade on. As I understand it, basically, yeah, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>one of these especially for kids who like aren't rich,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a massive barrier that you have to get

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<v Speaker 2>past if you want to like have a better life. Basically, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and these tests, and specifically the meat in particular. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>this is just the one if you want to become

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<v Speaker 2>a doctor. But like you know, there's a huge number

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<v Speaker 2>of people taking these tests. I'm going to quote from

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<v Speaker 2>Al Jazeera nearly two point three million test takers across

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<v Speaker 2>in and at examination centers in Doa, Dubai, Singapore and

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<v Speaker 2>Kampman Dou appeared for the neat this year on May third,

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<v Speaker 2>battling out for less than one hundred and thirty thousand

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<v Speaker 2>spots in medical colleges. So a very small percentage of

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<v Speaker 2>these of these two point three million people who are

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<v Speaker 2>taking this test can even possibly get a score good

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<v Speaker 2>enough to get them into a very small number of

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<v Speaker 2>spots in these medical colleges. And then it turns out

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<v Speaker 2>for this year's test that the answers to the test

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<v Speaker 2>had been leaked ahead of time and were being sold

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<v Speaker 2>on a telegram channels, And this turns into a massive

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<v Speaker 2>scandal and the government forces the students to take the

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<v Speaker 2>test again, and this is a complete disaster. Of eleven

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<v Speaker 2>students died by suicide as the result of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Good God, it's really bad, because it's like a mix

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<v Speaker 3>of everything you've heard about, particularly in Southeast Asia. You've

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<v Speaker 3>got a lot of like pressure as a kid to

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<v Speaker 3>do well in exams like this because there's not both

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<v Speaker 3>for cultural leases and because there's not other ways legally

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<v Speaker 3>to like get those jobs if your family is not rich.

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<v Speaker 3>And also the people whose families are rich, like often

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<v Speaker 3>can pay to get the answers ahead of time, which

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<v Speaker 3>is what the leak of this shows, right, Like the

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<v Speaker 3>fact that it leaks out is because people's rich kids

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<v Speaker 3>are getting these yeah. Well, and and also like if

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<v Speaker 3>you're rich enough, you can send your kid to like

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<v Speaker 3>a private college, right right, that too, you know, but

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<v Speaker 3>if you're a working class kid, it's you cannot afford

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<v Speaker 3>one of these one of these private universities. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 3>so your only way in is through these tests exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And these tests are also you know, they're like they're

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<v Speaker 3>like a huge sort of extraction engine inside of the

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<v Speaker 3>Indian economy where like, you know, one of the things

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<v Speaker 3>that Alda Zero talks about is the story of this

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<v Speaker 3>twenty one year old kid who is one of the

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<v Speaker 3>people who died by suicide, who in order to get

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<v Speaker 3>through these tests, you have to go through these like

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<v Speaker 3>massive extremely expensive coaching centers. Effectively in order to study

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<v Speaker 3>enough for it, and these things are these things are

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<v Speaker 3>really expensive, to the point where this kid's family like

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<v Speaker 3>sold their ancestral lands in order to be able to

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<v Speaker 3>pay for test coaching so this kid could become a doctor.

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<v Speaker 3>And she had passed the test after like not getting

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<v Speaker 3>high enough scores like the previous two times, and then

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<v Speaker 3>he had to take it again. There's stories like this

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<v Speaker 3>all over India and it's just a nightmare. Yeah, So

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<v Speaker 3>much of this too shouldn't be separated from the broader

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<v Speaker 3>issues gen Z and Jin's Alpha are having all over

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<v Speaker 3>the world, right, Yeah, like this is part of that.

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<v Speaker 3>Like this is we are fucked. We have no way

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<v Speaker 3>of making it in the economy you've left us, and

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<v Speaker 3>one of the tiny slim slippers of a way to

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<v Speaker 3>get ahead is just a scam too.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I get it. They should be pissed.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And like it's it's particularly intense in Indio because

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<v Speaker 2>there's a story recently that CNM was talking about where

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<v Speaker 2>there's a study that showed that there's a forty percent

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<v Speaker 2>unemployment rate for graduates under the age of twenty five.

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<v Speaker 4>Good God, that is nightmare.

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<v Speaker 3>I ish that's end of civilization kind of shit, like

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<v Speaker 3>any sane government would be worried about a revolution in

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<v Speaker 3>these conditions.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are the kind of unemployment levels that got you

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<v Speaker 2>the Arab spring, right, Like, yep, that's that's how this

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<v Speaker 2>stuff happens. And Facebook, yeah, and Twitter, I guess yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>well yeah, Facebook playing both sides on that one.

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<v Speaker 4>Sha I ran.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a variety of foreign intelligence agencies from all over

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<v Speaker 3>the world, a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 4>Like, yeah, a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and speaking of things that have a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>problems that the education system as well, like there's other

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<v Speaker 2>issues with it, right the BJP again, they've been in

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<v Speaker 2>power for twelve years, so they've installed a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>rs guys like in the Department of Education, and so

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<v Speaker 2>you get this curriculum that in something that I think

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<v Speaker 2>is very familiar to Americans where you're just getting all

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<v Speaker 2>of this right wing nationalist bullshit just like attempting to

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<v Speaker 2>be pumped into the education system. They're doing that too. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And conditions over this are bad enough that yeah, people

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<v Speaker 2>take to the streets.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, as they should and did. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's I don't know, like a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the stuff reading this, it was like, oh, I've like

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<v Speaker 2>I've like been in this protest like so so originally

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<v Speaker 2>these originally the protests are not that large in scale,

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<v Speaker 2>but there's a there's a big march on July twentieth,

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<v Speaker 2>that's you know, like a march at the Parliament and

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<v Speaker 2>there's a giant police attack on it. That's it's an

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<v Speaker 2>attempt to crush the movement entirely, and it doesn't work.

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<v Speaker 2>It does exactly the opposite. It has you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>very very familiar pattern of a bunch of people watch

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<v Speaker 2>like a bunch of like actual literal children who are protesting,

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<v Speaker 2>like the answers to the test got sold to a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of rich kids. Then they get the shit beat

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<v Speaker 2>out of it. This suddenly like accelerates the protest massively

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<v Speaker 2>and massively increases the number of people who are in

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<v Speaker 2>the streets. And you know, this eventually does the unthinkable,

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<v Speaker 2>which is for the government to make the Minister of

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<v Speaker 2>Education resigned, and they're also able to get some reforms.

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<v Speaker 2>The Modi government in theory says it's going to address

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<v Speaker 2>like some of the kind of like bureaucratic things around

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<v Speaker 2>why it's so easy to get these questions. They also

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<v Speaker 2>promise not to arrest any of the protesters a thing

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<v Speaker 2>that is never true. They they are every single time

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<v Speaker 2>you promise this, they are always lying.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But is also the thing that a government does when

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<v Speaker 2>it is scared.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a sign that they know they can't start

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<v Speaker 3>talking about cracking heads from the jump.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think we're going to get a bit into

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<v Speaker 2>more of the reason why the government was so alarmed

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<v Speaker 2>about this later. But one of the things where I

0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.880
<v Speaker 2>think this probably unfortunately was good strategic timing by the

0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.000
<v Speaker 2>government is that these were these protests were sort of

0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:50.120
<v Speaker 2>like crystallizing into these more general like antimody protests, and

0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.240
<v Speaker 2>by sort of heading it off at the past here

0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.920
<v Speaker 2>over an issue where like in theory, the BJP also

0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.000
<v Speaker 2>wants the tests to work normally, although obviously this does

0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.319
<v Speaker 2>beg the question like, okay, so if it's government officials

0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.120
<v Speaker 2>who are selling the answers to the tests, like who

0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:07.360
<v Speaker 2>is running the governments?

0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:10.960
<v Speaker 4>Which is you know?

0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Another part of this, and another thing that is a

0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.160
<v Speaker 2>part of this is these products and services.

0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.800
<v Speaker 4>Robert, Oh god, I love a good product and a

0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:32.440
<v Speaker 4>good service. Ugh, we're back.

0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 3>We're filled with the bounty of products and services and

0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.199
<v Speaker 3>we're ready to hear more about the cockroach Janta.

0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so again kind of very familiar to a lot

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.160
<v Speaker 2>of protests that we have seen over our lives. These

0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.839
<v Speaker 2>are very very social media driven protests in a way

0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 2>that's also similar to a lot of the protests that

0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:55.480
<v Speaker 2>have been happening in actually particularly in neighboring regions protesting

0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 2>like Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, et cetera, et cetera. And

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you want any of like the Instagram

0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.840
<v Speaker 2>reels or whatever from these, god.

0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.960
<v Speaker 2>It's it's so just depressingly familiar in a lot of

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.840
<v Speaker 2>ways where it's very funny reading people talking about this

0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.079
<v Speaker 2>because they're like, ah, it's these like irony meme driven

0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, like kids making these like irony meme driven

0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.200
<v Speaker 2>things about like getting the shit beaten out in by

0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.600
<v Speaker 2>riot police and like, you know, it's like people doing

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 2>fit checks and then like getting like beaten with batons,

0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, oh, yeah, okay, we've all been there.

0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.840
<v Speaker 2>I've been having a very like I'm feeling old moment

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 2>watching these because it's like, oh god, I remember these

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.440
<v Speaker 2>from like twenty thirteen when we were doing the same

0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:42.720
<v Speaker 2>shit and.

0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:44.520
<v Speaker 3>Well, That's one of the tough things too as you

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.680
<v Speaker 3>get older, is both you know, and this is less

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.600
<v Speaker 3>the case when we're talking about a foreign movement, because

0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't think I have any ability to influence that.

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.480
<v Speaker 3>When you're talking to like younger activists, it's a mix

0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 3>of wanting to like let them know about the pitfalls

0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.520
<v Speaker 3>and problems that previous generations have encountered when you see them,

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:02.560
<v Speaker 3>you know, kind of heading in that same direction, and

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.680
<v Speaker 3>also not wanting to be like, well, just because I'm

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 3>burnt out doesn't mean you should because I mean I should, Yeah,

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 3>Like you shouldn't be excited about this thing just because

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 3>I can't get excited anymore.

0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:14.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:15.840
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, you know, and that's always the thing

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.080
<v Speaker 2>with these kind of protests. It's like sometimes you win, yeah,

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes you win, and there's there's never God. David

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 2>Graeber had this quote I forget who, Yes.

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, I know the one you're talking about where he's

0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 3>he's talking about like the dealing with like the surprise

0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 3>of victory.

0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I was actually gonna do a different one. Oh, Okay,

0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 2>that one's also good. But he had this quote with

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.400
<v Speaker 2>a revolutionary in Egypt, like from the twenty eleven like

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 2>uprising there, and you know, she had this quote where

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 2>it was like, you do these protests all the time,

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.720
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes thirty people show up and you're depressed, and

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 2>sometimes one hundred people show up and you know, you're

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 2>really happy, and then one day, eight hundred thousand people

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:57.000
<v Speaker 2>show up and you kind of forgot that could happen. Yeah,

0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>and that's kind of what this is, right, where it's like, yeah,

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 2>that's that's exactly how it goes.

0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 3>It starts as like a bit from a dude who's

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.280
<v Speaker 3>not even in India at the time, right, He's at

0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.040
<v Speaker 3>a school in the US, and he and so he

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 3>just makes this kind of meme page and it takes off.

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then suddenly you know, you actually have And

0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:17.800
<v Speaker 2>part of this is also like weird stuff about how

0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.440
<v Speaker 2>algorithms work. But like, part of what's been happening here

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 2>too is that there's been a huge shift in the

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 2>regime in India's ability to control social media, which something

0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 2>they've been very very good at up until this point.

0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 2>They've been really good at controlling both sort of online

0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 2>discourse and also have taken almost complete control over just

0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 2>the regular mainstream media and these protests and like the

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 2>way that people are just sort of casually being like hey,

0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.680
<v Speaker 2>fitcheck going out to a protest, and like the way

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.200
<v Speaker 2>that the self spread algorithmically, and the way that you know,

0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 2>you have people going out for protest stuff, but that

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.440
<v Speaker 2>also mixes with just you know, people who are going

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>out just to film it for like their Instagram reels

0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.200
<v Speaker 2>and it. But all of all of them end up

0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 2>like in the streets, and you get the situation where

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>like the mainstream media is just like absolutely refuses to

0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.840
<v Speaker 2>talk about the protest whatsoever. But then you know, if

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.840
<v Speaker 2>you're like on Instagram, you're on any social media site,

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.560
<v Speaker 2>it's the only thing you're seeing. And this kind of

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 2>weakens the control that the BGP has been able to

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 2>maintain over all of these spaces. Yeah, but that doesn't

0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 2>mean that like they've you know, lost control completely. You know,

0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 2>the BGP is like kind of in their counterattack phase

0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.080
<v Speaker 2>right now, and you get a really bleak look at

0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 2>how like right wing governments with longstanding sort of right

0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 2>wing online basis and media bases work where yeah, they

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 2>do these like harassment campaigns against women who went.

0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 4>Out protesting they should do.

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like it's all the stuff that you're familiar with, right,

0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Like they'll show clips if people like on news channels

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 2>and then people will like dox them and like start

0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.720
<v Speaker 2>stalking them and they get threats and.

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've heard people had to like hide and stuff. Yeah,

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.239
<v Speaker 3>especially like female activists while they were during the protests.

0:16:58.320 --> 0:16:59.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Yeah.

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.240
<v Speaker 2>And it's also you know, it's like it's like large

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.480
<v Speaker 2>scale threats of sexual violence are yep, a very common

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.000
<v Speaker 2>part of this, and that's god, yes, you know, that's

0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.760
<v Speaker 2>like how these people are able to maintain power. But

0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.240
<v Speaker 2>even as this sort of visual kind of attack is

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.119
<v Speaker 2>happening and it's extremely brutal and it's really a mess,

0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.639
<v Speaker 2>the control of the mainstream media is also slipping. One

0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.719
<v Speaker 2>of the things I learned like reading about this is

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.639
<v Speaker 2>there's a term that I guess generally kind of like

0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 2>opposition people are using with the protesters also used where

0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 2>they call they call the like the mainstream press like

0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.200
<v Speaker 2>goaty media, which is like it's like lap in Hindi.

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.840
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's basically like calling them like lapdog media

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.720
<v Speaker 2>instead of being watchdogs, which I love.

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.119
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, I like it a lot. Yeah, I

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 4>did too, that's great. It's like it's good.

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I don't I don't know exactly how

0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.120
<v Speaker 2>to steal that for us, but I love it.

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.000
<v Speaker 4>It's great. Yeah, I should be thinking about that. Yeah.

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.760
<v Speaker 2>But part of the problem with having, you know, this

0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of like incredible degree of like media centralization that

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.880
<v Speaker 2>the regime has been able to pull together is that,

0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, after being in power for so long, having

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 2>their narrative be like completely hegemonic for so long, they're

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.639
<v Speaker 2>running into like the cracks, you know, these sort of

0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.000
<v Speaker 2>cracks forming in their nationalist messaging because like they're running

0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.840
<v Speaker 2>into the fundamental problem that you can't eat national pride.

0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>And so if if literally the entire media all the

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 2>time is trying to ignore that these protests are happening,

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 2>and then also was telling you that your country is

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.000
<v Speaker 2>great and like Modi is great and you're such a

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 2>world great world leader, but then you know you can't

0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:41.040
<v Speaker 2>feed your family, that that's an actual problem. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.000
<v Speaker 2>and like and like normally, the way that nationalists would

0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:45.640
<v Speaker 2>sort of deal with this is to be like, yeah,

0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.000
<v Speaker 2>you don't have jobs and your economy sucks because of

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.639
<v Speaker 2>like some either immigrant group or in this case, it

0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:52.960
<v Speaker 2>would sort of like you should probably be doing this

0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.880
<v Speaker 2>with Muslims, but they've been in power for so long

0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 2>that it's like kind of hard to do that because

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 2>it's like this is your country now, right, like you

0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.399
<v Speaker 2>have taken control of it. And yet Yeah, and this

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of feeds into this, you know, question at a

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.399
<v Speaker 2>broader level about what these protests are actually about, because

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.080
<v Speaker 2>on a very basic level, they're about education perform and

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 2>they're about these tests, and they're about the education system

0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 2>as a whole. But on a broader level, it's more

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.399
<v Speaker 2>complicated because these protests, as you know, protests often do

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 2>function as a sort of aggregator of different kinds of

0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:31.919
<v Speaker 2>struggle with you know, different beliefs and motivations, and you

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:33.879
<v Speaker 2>get a whole bunch of different kinds of people.

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:34.280
<v Speaker 4>In the street.

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:39.520
<v Speaker 2>I want to read this quote from an interview Frontline

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 2>India did with the guy who was the founder of

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.680
<v Speaker 2>the CJAP, which is to say, just like the guy

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.440
<v Speaker 2>who made the meme that went viral, Yeah, yeah.

0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.879
<v Speaker 3>That is how he got the job, so to speak.

0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 3>And he's done a really good job, by the way,

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Like I think he's been really responsible. Yeah, he could

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 3>not have anticipated this happening, but he seems to be

0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:57.920
<v Speaker 3>really dedicated to the cause.

0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I want to quote him here talking about

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.320
<v Speaker 2>what the ideology of this party, if it existed, would

0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 2>be the ideology of the CJP, and many of our

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 2>young people are also very progressive, liberal, secular, will be secular,

0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.959
<v Speaker 2>democratic and socialist, and we strive for social justice. And

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.640
<v Speaker 2>he also mentions three people that he's you know, he's

0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 2>he's inspired by, and two of them I think are

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of not particularly surprising given this kind of like

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.720
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of what like secular, progressive, democratic y

0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.639
<v Speaker 2>politics look like, which is he mentions Gandhi and Nehru.

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.400
<v Speaker 2>But what's interesting and what I haven't seen literally at

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.760
<v Speaker 2>all in any other coverage at this protest, is that

0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:44.120
<v Speaker 2>the third person that he mentions is Ambedkar. Which, yeah,

0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I assume you, having been there and spend a deep

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:48.680
<v Speaker 2>amount of time in India, I assume you know who

0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:49.439
<v Speaker 2>Ambedkar is.

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.600
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, I don't know. Really interesting, Okay, not

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:53.360
<v Speaker 4>in a meaningful way.

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Now, this is actually kind of a good proxy. I

0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:57.720
<v Speaker 2>assume people listening to the show know who Gandhi is.

0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.119
<v Speaker 2>You've probably at least heard of Nehru who was the

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:01.440
<v Speaker 2>first Arime Minister of India.

0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:01.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.639
<v Speaker 2>MBITCR is a lot less well known. He's another one

0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 2>of the very important sort of independence era figures in India.

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.639
<v Speaker 2>But he is the guy around which like the anti

0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 2>cast movement rallies.

0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:15.640
<v Speaker 4>Was it was he in the fifties or sixties.

0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.080
<v Speaker 2>No, he like first starts this in like the like

0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the twenties and thirties, and then he's alive through independence.

0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:21.960
<v Speaker 4>Oh okay really that era?

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, he's he's around like in the era

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:26.679
<v Speaker 2>of like revolutionary struggle against the.

0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.960
<v Speaker 4>British creed independence yeah yeah, yeah.

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.119
<v Speaker 2>And then he you know, he like survives through independence

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:32.600
<v Speaker 2>and gets to see some of.

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.240
<v Speaker 3>That the partition of India and all that good stuff. Yeah,

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:36.440
<v Speaker 3>all the fun things happen.

0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:37.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 2>And this is a period, you know, if you look

0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>at like the nineteen ten's, twenties, thirties, this is a

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 2>period both about the anti colonial struggle and then also

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.080
<v Speaker 2>like what the struggle is going to be, right, Like,

0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:49.400
<v Speaker 2>who's whose vision of India is going to come out

0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.320
<v Speaker 2>of a post independence world if there is one? And

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Mbitcr's thing here is yes, like we want like we

0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.399
<v Speaker 2>want independence and we want socialism because you know, a

0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.240
<v Speaker 2>lot of the people of the like Nahry was technic

0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.440
<v Speaker 2>is like a kind of socialist right, like a lot

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 2>of a lot of the independence activists are. But he's

0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:09.919
<v Speaker 2>also in a position of we need to get rid

0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 2>of the cast system because he sees it as like correctly,

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.040
<v Speaker 2>as like an incredibly powerful sort of force of oppression

0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.720
<v Speaker 2>in Indian society, and he thinks that that's not something

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.240
<v Speaker 2>that they should like wait until independence to deal with.

0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.439
<v Speaker 2>And so he's a very very important like leader in

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.560
<v Speaker 2>the anti cast movements, and he's probably I think he's

0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.399
<v Speaker 2>probably just like their best known intellectual. I would really

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:35.399
<v Speaker 2>recommend reading his book, The Annihilation of Cast. Well, I

0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:37.680
<v Speaker 2>say book, it's like that it's not that long. Yeah,

0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Like it's probably like my favorite thing I've read and

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 2>from the writers of that era. It's an address that

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.800
<v Speaker 2>he's making basically to both I guess you'd call it

0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.480
<v Speaker 2>like more conservative pro in dependence activists and then also

0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:52.080
<v Speaker 2>to the socialists to be like, hey, you should also

0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:53.920
<v Speaker 2>talk about cast at the same time you're talking about

0:22:53.960 --> 0:23:08.120
<v Speaker 2>British oppression and also class The CJP founder like mentions

0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:12.360
<v Speaker 2>this because he's from a low cast background, and he

0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.919
<v Speaker 2>goes like, yeah, like no, like I wouldn't have been

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.400
<v Speaker 2>able to go to school in the United States and

0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.439
<v Speaker 2>like have the successes that I've had in my life

0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:23.640
<v Speaker 2>without ambicar. I thought this was really interesting because it's

0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.879
<v Speaker 2>not mentioned in any other reporting, even though it's like

0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:30.080
<v Speaker 2>in an interview he's said, and also, I think this

0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:34.160
<v Speaker 2>is a dynamic here that is like not well understood

0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:36.760
<v Speaker 2>in most places, that like, this is a still operative

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 2>system of oppression that people are still fighting against, and

0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:43.000
<v Speaker 2>that is relevant enough to be like one of the

0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.160
<v Speaker 2>things that gets mentioned by the guy who starts this movement.

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.520
<v Speaker 2>And that's not to say the rest of the movement

0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:52.399
<v Speaker 2>like necessarily is exactly this focused on it. Which is

0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.320
<v Speaker 2>one of the parts of this movement that's both why

0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.919
<v Speaker 2>it succeeded and also one of the kind of messy

0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 2>parts of it. Right, is that on the one hand,

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.320
<v Speaker 2>this has become a really or full vehicle for these

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:06.040
<v Speaker 2>sort of like broadly secular like pro democracy, like antibody,

0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:10.000
<v Speaker 2>anti dictatorship students, and there's always been like a fairly

0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:12.560
<v Speaker 2>large like cohort of you know, sort of like young

0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.879
<v Speaker 2>left leaning or leftist students. I mean there was a

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.160
<v Speaker 2>whole i don't know what you'd call it, like social

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.480
<v Speaker 2>panic slash government purge against this idea of like quote

0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.720
<v Speaker 2>unquote urban Naxles, which was supposed to be like oh,

0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:28.200
<v Speaker 2>there's like these like urban versions of like the nax

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:30.919
<v Speaker 2>like communist guerrillas that are in the universities, which is,

0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:33.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, in a lot of ways, very similar to

0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:37.600
<v Speaker 2>but a significantly more advanced and repressive version of the

0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:39.760
<v Speaker 2>stuff that like you see the Trump administration doing in

0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:42.640
<v Speaker 2>the US education system and the sort of like witch

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 2>hunts over you know, Palestine and stuff like that. So

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:49.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, you have that group of sort of like

0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:51.080
<v Speaker 2>center left and leftist students to where a lot of

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:53.720
<v Speaker 2>people who started the protest movement. But also there's also

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:56.680
<v Speaker 2>just like BJP kids, yeah, who are in the streets

0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:59.240
<v Speaker 2>because they're like, yeah, like we all got fucked in our.

0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Tests because bullshit. Yeah, yeah, it's the same reason. Now

0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.200
<v Speaker 3>you've got a decent chunk at least like a third

0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:08.399
<v Speaker 3>of the twenty or something percent of the people who

0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:12.399
<v Speaker 3>voted for Trump in twenty twenty four are more people

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:13.960
<v Speaker 3>who'd voted for Biden or for.

0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:15.280
<v Speaker 4>Hillary a few years earlier.

0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Right there are people who maybe they went for this guy,

0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:20.520
<v Speaker 3>but as soon as it stops working for them, as

0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.160
<v Speaker 3>soon as like the fascistm isn't delivering what it promises,

0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 3>they'll get pissed. They'll get out wide, up with the streets. Yeah,

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 3>you don't have to like them to recognize that as

0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 3>a phenomenon.

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:29.400
<v Speaker 4>Yep. Yeah.

0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a kind of like third phenomenon too, which is,

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:35.440
<v Speaker 2>as these protests go on, you get more and more

0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:39.960
<v Speaker 2>of different kinds of like both rural and urban workers,

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:43.280
<v Speaker 2>more urban workers and real workers. But this is you know,

0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.439
<v Speaker 2>the thing about education protests at their core is that

0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:49.800
<v Speaker 2>this is something that cuts across like rural urban divides

0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:53.200
<v Speaker 2>to an extent in the sense that like both poor

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:55.919
<v Speaker 2>rural kids and poor urban kids are still getting fucked

0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:59.399
<v Speaker 2>by this, you know, like by the exam system. But

0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:01.800
<v Speaker 2>then you know, you get workers starting to join it

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:05.560
<v Speaker 2>who also have these I think, I don't know the

0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:09.920
<v Speaker 2>way that commentators talk about it is that they're unconnected.

0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:13.840
<v Speaker 2>I think they're a lot more connected than that. But

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:15.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, you get you get you get these workers

0:26:15.960 --> 0:26:19.719
<v Speaker 2>with these like cost of living crisis concerns, who who

0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:22.199
<v Speaker 2>are also joining this protest, And I guess part of

0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:25.639
<v Speaker 2>this is a girl who spent a lot of time

0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 2>studying and writing aboutmen. But this is kind of the

0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.679
<v Speaker 2>exact class composition of Timen and how those protests unfold

0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:36.359
<v Speaker 2>it where you have its origins in like this, in

0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:39.800
<v Speaker 2>this specific student movement thing that has kind of specific

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:43.119
<v Speaker 2>student movement grievances that then you know, goes into the

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.920
<v Speaker 2>streets around their specific demands, and then everyone watches them

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:48.200
<v Speaker 2>get the ship beaten out of them, and that brings

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:49.879
<v Speaker 2>more and more people into the streets who have their

0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:53.680
<v Speaker 2>own kind of specific demands around like the economic conditions

0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:57.520
<v Speaker 2>they're in. And this is a very common like composition

0:26:57.720 --> 0:26:59.800
<v Speaker 2>for for revolts. I mean, it's it's the basis of

0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:03.399
<v Speaker 2>everything from like I mean God, like it's part of

0:27:03.440 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 2>the basis of the French Revolution. You can look at

0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:08.560
<v Speaker 2>like May sixty eight, like you know, so the revolts

0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 2>against Pinochet, like I mean, occupy is like a lot

0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:15.359
<v Speaker 2>to a large extent, like this class base, right, if

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 2>you have a bunch of students who are very concerned

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.280
<v Speaker 2>about debt, and then that brings in a bunch of

0:27:19.280 --> 0:27:21.680
<v Speaker 2>more working class people who are like not students anymore.

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:28.040
<v Speaker 2>But that's also what makes it dangerous. It's a very

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:30.080
<v Speaker 2>old kind of alliance, and it's a kind of alliance

0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:35.000
<v Speaker 2>that can always materialize because students and poor workers are

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>some of the first people to feel when the economic

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:42.000
<v Speaker 2>tides are shifting, and that like constantly creates these kind

0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:46.080
<v Speaker 2>of uprisings, right, and you know, they're dangerous enough that

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:49.000
<v Speaker 2>if you look at the last thirty years of Chinese politics,

0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of of the politics of modern China

0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:55.680
<v Speaker 2>are about specifically making sure that this exact coalition doesn't

0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:58.760
<v Speaker 2>form again. So you know, when the old working class

0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:00.959
<v Speaker 2>is sort of crushed with the like remains the welfare

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:04.080
<v Speaker 2>state in the nineties, like, there's a very deliberate attempt

0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:05.680
<v Speaker 2>to buy off the students at the same time to

0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:08.440
<v Speaker 2>make sure they never make common cause. And like any

0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:11.520
<v Speaker 2>time you've seen sort of student worker actions since then,

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:14.639
<v Speaker 2>there's this massive crackdown on it because the Chinese government

0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.360
<v Speaker 2>understands that this is this is a very very dangerous

0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:21.960
<v Speaker 2>political coalition, and it's a political coalition that has outlasted

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean literally like a lot of the working classes

0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.000
<v Speaker 2>that were originally in these uprisings, like the French revolutionary

0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:30.360
<v Speaker 2>like artis in class like that doesn't exist anymore, right,

0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:34.679
<v Speaker 2>Like the industrial working class in like France or like

0:28:34.800 --> 0:28:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Italy in the sixties, Like that also doesn't exist anymore,

0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:42.680
<v Speaker 2>but you still see this like specific configuration of classes

0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:47.960
<v Speaker 2>doing these protest movements. Yeah, there's obviously always a lot

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.360
<v Speaker 2>of different motivations, and conflict against the state tends to

0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 2>be the thing that can like solidify a kind of

0:28:55.560 --> 0:28:58.720
<v Speaker 2>identity that allows you to do any kind of mass movements, right,

0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Like this is like one of the few things that

0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:03.800
<v Speaker 2>can you know, fighting the police and having the state

0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:07.040
<v Speaker 2>repress you, and then having the states as a force

0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>you can fight against concretely that just appears when you

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:12.840
<v Speaker 2>oppose it, like is one of the things that like

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:15.800
<v Speaker 2>makes these kinds of protest stupens work. And then also

0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:19.280
<v Speaker 2>underneath that the economy is broken in a lot of

0:29:19.320 --> 0:29:21.880
<v Speaker 2>the ways you saw like in like twenty eighteen and

0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:24.160
<v Speaker 2>twenty nineteen, which is like I think the last big

0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:27.360
<v Speaker 2>cycle of these mass protests where you have this economic instability,

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:30.800
<v Speaker 2>and what I think is particularly similar between now and

0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:35.240
<v Speaker 2>like twenty eighteen, was that technically speaking, if you look

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.680
<v Speaker 2>at the economy in India right now, as long as

0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:41.680
<v Speaker 2>you ignore the youth unemployment rate. It looks like the

0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:42.640
<v Speaker 2>economy is growing.

0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:43.240
<v Speaker 4>Things are good.

0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's like the same thing as the US,

0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:46.840
<v Speaker 2>where it's like, well, I mean the economic indicators have

0:29:46.840 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 2>been getting worse, but like you know, technically speaking, it

0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 2>looks like the US economy is growing, but if you're

0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:56.160
<v Speaker 2>living under it, it's like, no, it's not. And there's

0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:58.680
<v Speaker 2>all of these sort of cracks and ripples in the

0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:01.040
<v Speaker 2>global economy in twenty eighteen was like this where like

0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:04.280
<v Speaker 2>the American economy was like doing fine, and a lot

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:06.680
<v Speaker 2>of like the major economies were in theory doing fine.

0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 2>But then you know, there was a series of currency

0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:12.800
<v Speaker 2>like crises and like there were like these economic collapses. Yeah,

0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:15.840
<v Speaker 2>there's like this hyperinflation in Turkey. You get these things

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:18.400
<v Speaker 2>in like Chile, and then you know, you start seeing

0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:20.520
<v Speaker 2>these protests. You get like Haiti, you get the yellow ves,

0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 2>you see like Hong Kong Lebanon a rock god like

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Iran for the first time of this giant cycle of

0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 2>protests in Iran me and Maar like even like Russia

0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:34.960
<v Speaker 2>briefly goes up. And I'm bringing this up to say

0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:37.640
<v Speaker 2>that like one of the things about a protest like this,

0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 2>right and there's been several other ones that were very

0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:45.240
<v Speaker 2>big protests in Indonesia over the last couple of months.

0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 2>These protests often a recur and b are in some

0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:55.400
<v Speaker 2>ways an early warning signal before like there's going to

0:30:55.400 --> 0:30:58.400
<v Speaker 2>be another giant round of these kind of protests.

0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:01.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean I hope, all right.

0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think there's a decent chance of

0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:06.240
<v Speaker 2>it because like, you know, the economy still hasn't like

0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:10.200
<v Speaker 2>hit rock bottom yet. No, and in the way that

0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:12.760
<v Speaker 2>like you know, you saw that in twenty twenty where like, yeah,

0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:15.280
<v Speaker 2>the bottom finally fell out of the economy with COVID.

0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 3>Furthermore, maybe this is putting it a little bit too strongly,

0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:20.560
<v Speaker 3>but like the people who do not like the regime

0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:23.600
<v Speaker 3>at particularly the activists, have like tasted a little blood

0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:26.880
<v Speaker 3>now yeah. Yeah, Like it's really hard once people win,

0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 3>once a movement wins, for it to not try to

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.320
<v Speaker 3>keep winning, right, That's kind of a natural instinct.

0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:36.800
<v Speaker 2>And and the BJP is is, you know, obviously doing

0:31:36.800 --> 0:31:37.920
<v Speaker 2>its best to do to.

0:31:37.960 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 4>Suppress this, yeah, to suppress or co opt yeah. Yeah.

0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:44.560
<v Speaker 2>But the problem that they're facing is is the fundamental

0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>problem of all of the regimes everywhere, which is that, like,

0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 2>it's a lot harder to maintain one of these kinds

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:53.240
<v Speaker 2>of regimes when you have been in power for a

0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:57.320
<v Speaker 2>long time and suddenly the economy implodes. And that's coming

0:31:57.360 --> 0:31:59.800
<v Speaker 2>for India the same way that's coming for the rest

0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:02.120
<v Speaker 2>of the world. And also in very specific ways of

0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 2>like you know, we've talked about I've talked about on

0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:07.480
<v Speaker 2>this show elsewhere, the effects of the blockade of the

0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:10.240
<v Speaker 2>shrade'formuz has been devastating in India in a way that

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:13.560
<v Speaker 2>it hasn't been in the US. Yeap, and you know,

0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:17.560
<v Speaker 2>you also have like heat waves that are also you know,

0:32:17.600 --> 0:32:22.400
<v Speaker 2>both economically and just like living devastating. There was an

0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:25.440
<v Speaker 2>expression in the Hong Kong protest that they were drawing

0:32:25.520 --> 0:32:28.640
<v Speaker 2>from a Mao quote but also it's way older than Mao,

0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:31.160
<v Speaker 2>as like Mao says in the thing where he says it.

0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:33.719
<v Speaker 2>But the Hong konger has had this line that like

0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 2>a single spark can start a prairie fire, and the

0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:39.080
<v Speaker 2>thing about the Indian economy is that it is throwing

0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:42.600
<v Speaker 2>sparks off everywhere. And that doesn't mean that every individual

0:32:42.760 --> 0:32:45.200
<v Speaker 2>spark is going to be the one that starts the fire,

0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:48.200
<v Speaker 2>but it means that as as you continue to get

0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:50.400
<v Speaker 2>more and more sparks, the odds that you see another

0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:54.560
<v Speaker 2>one of these revolts increases, and hopefully the odds that

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:57.080
<v Speaker 2>one of these protests and one of these movements can

0:32:57.320 --> 0:33:01.400
<v Speaker 2>finally knock off the fascists and yeah, fundamentally transform Indian

0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 2>society rices.

0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:04.840
<v Speaker 4>Yep, or at least get mody out.

0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:08.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just at a bare minimum, you know, I'll take

0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:14.560
<v Speaker 3>the minimum if that's what it is. Oh God, Okay, Well,

0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:18.160
<v Speaker 3>thank you Mia, and thank you the cockroach Janta over

0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:18.840
<v Speaker 3>in India.

0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:19.600
<v Speaker 4>Good work.

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Hell yeah, y'all, that is actually really nice to see.

0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:26.040
<v Speaker 4>Fucking rocks. Give them hell proud of you.

0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:35.720
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0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.360
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0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:41.440
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0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:42.280
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0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:47.680
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