WEBVTT - Star Wars Week 2026, Part 1: Hoth 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.760 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.000 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.120 My name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.639 And today on the podcast, we are going to be 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.440 starting a two part series of episodes exploring a kind 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:29.480 of salad bar of topics related to the Star Wars universe. Now, Rob, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.880 I know you love a calendar tie in. We've got 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.599 something going on on the calendar the week that these 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:36.920 episodes are airing, Right. 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.320 That's right, May the fourth, the unofficial turn basically official 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:43.080 holiday for all things Star Wars. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.959 Okay, that's a pun, Right the fourth be with you? Yeah, 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:48.600 very cute. 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:49.479 Yeah. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.400 So I think for all of the first episode today, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:55.600 we're going to be talking about a setting from the 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.000 Empire Strikes Back, my favorite of the Star Wars movies. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.280 It's going to be the planet Hath, the Ice World, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:06.000 location of the Hidden Rebel Bass where the first act 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.800 of the movie takes place. So we're gonna be talking 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.640 about wampas, We're gonna be talking about ton toons as organisms, 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:17.720 ton toons as sleeping bags, and maybe some other stuff. Rob, 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.959 I wonder if you have a similar kind of particular 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.320 childhood memories of the Hawth scenes to the ones that 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.240 I hold. So I really loved the Hawth segment of 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.400 Empire when I was a kid, not just because of 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.600 the ice planet aliens, I did really like those, but 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.560 I really liked the snow speed or battle scene. I 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.319 remember that always stood out to me as one of 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.920 my favorite, you know, spaceship battle scenes in the movies, 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.480 and I think it's because it wasn't just blasterbeams shooting 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.760 back and forth. I really liked the way that they 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:54.080 used the trick with the harpoons and the tow cables around. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.480 They use that to trip up the walker legs and 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.960 knock them down, really like action scenes with the tactile 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.520 all change up like that, where there's like a different 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.400 kind of I don't know, substance being deployed. And I 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.520 remember liking the Ewok battle in Empire or Sorry in 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.400 Jedi for the same reason, though that one maybe didn't 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.440 age quite as gloriously for me personally, but it's still great. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.119 Well, you love a good booby trap, and yeah both 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.680 have traps. Both of these involved setting traps for big 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:28.160 lumbering like machines, so uh and uh yeah, I mean, 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.720 I obviously I love Empire Strikes Back as well. It's 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.760 one of these weird films though for me that I 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.920 saw it so early on, like like as a as 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.640 a tiny child, and like grew up with it and 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.960 grew up with the toys from this movie, grew up 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.840 with the world of this movie. It's almost like growing 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.280 up like within a religion or a certain culture that 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.120 you It was only much later that I really sat 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.360 down and thought about, well, Okay, this is why I 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.760 liked it, this is why it connected with me, and 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.400 these are the things that's that are legitimately great about it, 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.680 because yeah, it was just all around me. In fact, 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.600 I had to bring this in. I have my Tonton 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.600 action figure, our action accessory from when I was a kid, 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.160 showing that off on the video for folks who have 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.000 the video. I didn't keep most of those things, but 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.240 I did keep the Tonton. And I think that there 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.160 are only a few aliens that I connected with so 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.280 much that I had to like hold on to them 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.200 in one way or another. There's this, There's Max Reebo, 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.480 There's a few others like that. In the I had 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:30.320 to keep the Tonton. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.799 You showed me earlier. Can you let the people those 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:35.960 who are watching on video, can you see the hinge 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.400 where the action figure goes into the back of the 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:38.720 ton Oh? 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.040 Yeah, right here, So there was also a saddle, there 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.080 were you know, accessories and all. But but yeah, there 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:45.800 was this little place where you just stick the feet 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.720 directly into the back of the tonton, which is not 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.480 how it actually worked in the show, but something like that, 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:53.520 of course occurs. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:55.760 Why did they make horses like that that you can 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:56.720 ride inside? 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.760 I don't know. I wonder if this was a common 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.600 toy build. I don't know. Toy historians will have to 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:04.600 ride in and let us know if this trick was 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.400 ever employed with just straight up like Cowboy and horse 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:09.840 action figure sets. 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.400 All right, well, maybe we should just jump right in 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.560 and talk a bit about the give a sketch of 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.839 the fictional world of the planet Hawth. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.680 All right, I'm gonna ahead and mention a book. I 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.120 have a number of different like Star Wars bestiaries, and 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.680 one is full of droids, So I guess it's a 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.359 I don't know what you would call that droid technical guide. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.320 But this one here, this is a field guide from 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.960 Star Wars. The wildlife of Star Wars a field guide. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:40.560 This one was by Tyrrel Whitlach and Bob Carral. They're 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.679 both from two thousand and one. Both of these authors, 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.240 by the way, are interesting figures in the history of 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.200 Star Wars because Corral wrote co wrote the nineteen eighty 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.760 four film The Ewok Adventure, and Whitlatch, an illustrator with 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.320 a background in zoology, served as a principal creature designer 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.240 for Star Wars Episode one, The Phantom Menace, which of 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.680 course has a lot of great creatures in it. Okay, so, 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.960 uh let's provide just a little overview of Hath First, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.760 just a reminder, and actually before I do the reminder, 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:15.560 I'm going to give our standard sort of geek disclaimer here. Uh, 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.800 Joe and I are not experts on Star Wars lore. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.120 We we we love a lot of it. We know 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.400 what we love. But you know, there's this is not 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.000 going to be like a a lore dump sort of episode. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.400 So there are things that we're going to talk about 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.840 that might not completely sync up with canon or extended 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.440 universe and the various different like religious divisions within Star 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.960 Wars fandom. Uh So, you know, refer to Wookipedia if 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.480 you have any additional questions, but certainly right in if 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.120 you have, you know, if you if you do want 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.160 to say yes, but actually, uh, right in, well, we're 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:53.520 happy to have those conversations. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.320 I feel more inclined to give the non expertise caveats 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.560 about like scientific domains, I would say, when it comes 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.040 to star Ward. Not even George Lucas is an expert 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:02.880 in Star Wars. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.520 I firmly believe things like this, like it ends up 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.680 belonging to everybody, so you can take what you want 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.960 and make that be your Star Wars, make that be 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.080 your universe, and so forth. So, you know, trying not 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.960 to get to me, trying not to get to in 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.000 a rut over any of it. But at any rate, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.400 let's talk about haw Hawk is the sixth planet where 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.279 I understand, revolving around a small lower level blue white sun. 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.160 As we all know, it's frigid. It's a frozen world, 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.000 mostly known to humans anyway for its vast glacier fields 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.599 and snow drifts. It also has a breathable atmosphere, which 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.400 from our point of view is a big deal. But 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.520 I guess within the Star Wars universe is not that exceptional. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.040 There are playing planets that have atmospheres that most humanoids 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:51.880 can breathe. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.560 Seems like almost all of them, right. 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:58.760 Yeah. Now, as the Wildlife of Star Wars field Guide 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:00.960 points out, there is a currently a great deal of 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:05.120 geothermal heat that never fully reaches the surface, yet adequately 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:09.640 warms various underground crake, underground caves, and grottos. So the 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.640 surface is also frequently pelted with castaways from the nearby 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.120 meteor belt. But still life persists on the planet and 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.960 to a great degree within the planet. So in these 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:27.200 various caves of rock, caves of ice, there's life down there, 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.200 and in particular where to understand, there's like nd in 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.160 plant matter, because there seems to be enough plant matter 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:39.560 on this world for an herbiv war population to thrive. 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.000 And these are of course the tontons. We mainly see 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.160 the one tonton species. I think in the movies this 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.400 is sometimes referred to as the giant tonton. But as 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.240 this book gets into and various other bits of Star 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:58.640 Wars you know, extended lore, have explored, there may be 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.520 as many as fifteen tons ton species, and so you 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:05.680 have like smaller tontons that are like crawling or climbing tontons, 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.320 and this just happens to be the biggest one that 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.000 can be domesticated or at least utilized as a steed 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.240 by humanoid visitors to this world. 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.440 Now that I think about it, the movie never actually 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.760 says that the tontons are herbivores, does it. You just 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.840 assume that since you see one get attacked by the wampa, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:28.480 a larger, obviously carnivorous animal. So at least in my brain, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.240 it went like, oh, okay, tontons are prey, therefore they 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.439 are herbivores. And I guess because animals that we ride 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.880 in reality tend to be herbivores. I know, if there 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:41.000 are any standard carnivorous animals that people ride as a 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:41.920 regular thing. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.920 I mean, it's weird enough that the carnivorous feline cat 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.719 is in such close proximity to us, you know, an 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.760 hot meat eater. But but yeah, I don't think we 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.240 ever see the tontons eating the movie. But yeah, we 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.920 just it's implied. It's or we just assume that they 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.360 eat plants, so therefore there must be enough plant on 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.280 Hoth or in Hath to sustain a sizable population of tontons, 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:09.000 and there are enough tontons to sustain some population of 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.520 apex predators the wamp interesting. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.640 Yeah, but as you're alluding to, those plants must be 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.240 mostly in places that we don't see in the film, 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.800 because again we just see these like glaciers and ice field. Right, 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:23.360 there's obviously not much to eat. 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.640 Yeah, they must be eating something that is under the snow, 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.920 under the eyes in one way or another. And geothormally 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:34.840 thermally heated cavern seems like a good enough beat. So 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.000 what does a tantan look like? I think most of 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.640 you are probably picturing it, but I or you if 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.439 you have video you saw me hold up the toy 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.160 and you're in that case, maybe reminded that it. It 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:49.760 kind of looks like a cross between a ram, a goat, 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:51.040 and a dinosaur. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:56.960 Yeah, yeah, that's very good. Yes, like theropod dinosaur posture 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.040 on the two back legs with the large hips and 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.080 then a counterbalancing tail and a big upper body. But 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.679 then yeah, a kind of fluffy, furry kind of appearance, 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.319 more like a goat with those rams horns, and then 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.600 the face is a little bit goat and also just 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.240 a little bit muppet a little bit luf dragon sort of. 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.120 Yeah. And I don't know if this makes sense, but 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.160 I used to think that they kind of look like 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.720 George Washington in the face. I don't know if that 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.440 makes a lot of sense, but I'll hold it up here. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:30.560 I don't know. I just as a kid, I would 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.280 look at that and think it kind of looks like 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.200 the guy on the dollar bill. But maybe that was 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:35.560 just me. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.800 I honestly can't say I see it, but I'm trying. 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.760 Okay, So what is this? Is it a mammal? Is 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.240 it a reptile? Well, some of the lore books would 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.800 say it is a repto mammalian creature, So some sort 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.199 of warm blooded creature with scales, fur, and thick blubber. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.000 The let's see sort of some other things worth mentioning. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.480 The field Guide here says, you know, I think the 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.240 other thing that is established in the movie is that 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:08.160 they smell bad. Characters are always commenting on this. The 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.520 field Guide says that they can somehow turn this odor off, 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.840 or at least cease to produce it while resting or 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.160 holding up with young so as not to attract predators. 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.840 Though given that they seem to have only one predator. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.920 Perhaps that predator just simply doesn't depend on smell. I 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:25.520 don't know, I'm just throwing that out there. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.360 Interesting. Well, now, I never thought about this. I always 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.880 just assumed the idea that they smell bad is like 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.760 people who aren't used to being around farm animals might 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.040 think that farm animals smell bad. But I guess the 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.400 other place you could go is that they have an 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:46.960 incredibly like biologically intentional, pungent odor like a skunk, that 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.079 is somehow used for something. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.199 Right right like you could be I mean, certainly, it 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.200 could be a way of communicating. It could be you know, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.640 it could be marking their territory. It could be the 0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:59.280 result of some sort of you know, some of the 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.800 oils in their coat or somehow pungent. Or it could 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.800 indeed be something that is, you know, signaling stay away 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.240 from me, like don't eat me, Wampa, I smell terrible. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.040 It could be defense. It could even be a signal 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:13.840 that there perhaps is something that they consume that makes 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.640 them potentially toxic for a predator to consume. And we 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.480 may come back to that idea here in a bit. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.440 Interesting Okay, Now, as a kid, I'm not sure I 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.560 ever really made that connection between tonton and dinosaur though 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.320 I just I was super into dinosaurs. I really love 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.719 Star Wars, but I didn't like think of them as 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.600 being really all that connected somehow. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:36.200 I don't know. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.760 The toys probably even interacted with each other, but I 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:40.400 just thought of the tonton more as a kind of 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.000 goat or ram like monster. 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.640 Well, can I offer one reason that I think our 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.439 brains might not have gone to this connection, even though 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:53.520 morphologically it seems so obvious. And it's the Taunton exists 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.240 on an ice world. And at least when I was 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.880 growing up, I would have said dinosaurs existed in a 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.440 hot weather and in hot weather only. I don't think 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.439 when I was a kid, I would have even entertained 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.560 the possibility that there could be a dinosaur on an 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.400 icy snowy world. But now I start to wonder, Yeah, 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:19.160 what exactly was the temperature range of environments that could 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.599 be occupied by dinosaurs? What do we know about that? 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.520 Yeah, this is a fascinating topic, and I think you're 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.840 right on because when we were kids, we're looking at 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.440 various excellent examples of paleo art and what's happening. It's 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.359 a tropical environment, there's a volcano erupting in the background, 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.720 there are no snow flurries, there's no ice, and you know, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.160 and they and all the dinosaurs are presented as being 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.760 just very large reptile creatures that we instantly associate with 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:45.880 warmer climates. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.760 Yeah, and they live in hell in literal like me, 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:52.960 molten lava environment. 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.679 Yeah. Yeah. And you know, to be clear, we are 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.840 talking about a distant Earth that was on the whole warmer. 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.080 And I think this idea of dinosaurs living in a 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.520 warm world and a kind of a tropical environment certainly 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.679 was more of the mainstay back in nineteen eighty and 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.440 even fifteen years ago. I think this was more common, 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:20.320 but paleontology increasingly paints a picture of prehistoric settings in 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:25.880 which dinosaurs sometimes lived in colder climates. So, and this 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:31.640 would actually include bipedal therapods. Bipedal therapods are among the 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:36.720 remains found in what is now southeastern Australia, which over 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.240 one hundred and ten million years ago, would have existed 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:44.120 within the Cretaceous Antarctic Circle. Is explored in the twenty 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.840 twenty article How Dinosaurs Thrived in the Snow by Riley 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:51.320 Black For Smithsonian Magazine. This region was a temperate rainforest, 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.640 but it's three months dark. Winters would have been harsh, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.240 featuring snow and ice. We also have evidence from the 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.080 Prince Creek formation in northern i Alaska. This suggests similar 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.360 snow dinos from that part of the world as well. Yeah. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.440 I don't think I would have been able to tell 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.720 you before reading up for this episode that there were 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.280 actually dinosaurs that lived above the Arctic Circle during the 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:18.280 Cretaceous period or during the Mesozoic generally, that there were 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.560 dinosaurs that you know, they probably had similar kinds of 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:26.280 adaptations to many larger animals that live in far northern 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.480 or southern climates near polar climates today. But yeah, we 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.600 know there were some large dinosaurs that lived up there, 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.920 and that raises a lot of interesting questions like did 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:40.360 they survive by migration or did they have extreme life 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.920 adaptations to stay up in those kinds of conditions year round. 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.120 Yeah. Yeah, and a lot of these questions I think 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.520 are still being discussed and we're still working out the answers. 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.680 But yeah, you'd be dealing with situations where for like 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.080 three months out of the year, this region might be 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.600 shrouded in darkness and subject to some extreme temperatures, and 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.520 yet the dinosaurs seem to have existed there at least 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.920 some populations of them remained through these periods. So I 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.800 was reading a bit more about this in Paleontology snow 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:16.240 Falling on Dinosaurs by Fluorian Modespakta. This was published in 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.280 Current Biology twenty twenty one, and the author points out that, Yeah, 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.960 we used to think that dinosaur activity was limited more 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:28.360 towards the warmer climates on a warmer Earth, but paleontology 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:33.760 finds in southern Australia in Antarctica as well, and then 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.720 also Northern Siberia and Northern Canada have challenged those assumptions. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:42.320 Prince Creek formation findings have painted a picture of considerable 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.640 polar dino diversity from seven different families plus one bird. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.440 And this includes large and small bodied dinos. It includes 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:54.720 both herbivores and carnivores. And this also includes the facultatively 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.720 bipedal hydrosaur that was once thought to be a separate 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.080 species and had a rarely had its own name, but 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.280 has now thought I think to basically be a variety 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.560 of the Edmontosaurus. But that could change. These things change 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.919 but yeah, it paints this picture. And we've seen this 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.720 in more more recent and updated paleol art, and I 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.280 believe it's made its way into some of the big 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.880 budget computer animated documentaries about prehistoric life, where we're now 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:30.120 seeing images of dinosaurs things we would even you know, identify, readibly, readily, 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.960 even with feathers, as dinosaurs roaming about in some sort 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.879 of a snowy, icy setting. Now, without getting into the 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:42.119 larger topic of broad dinosaur metabolism, the consensus today tends 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.239 to be that therapod dinosaurs were likely warm blooded, and 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.399 the same is likely true for the Edmontosaurus as well. 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.600 And as you know, it's interesting to think about about 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.320 this our current take on all this when considering the 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.359 tanton because when the when the Tonton was conceived, I 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.399 don't think there was any sense of like, hey, I 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.960 think dinosaurs actually were warm blooded and lived in snowy environments. 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.200 You know. It seems more like a clear Sci fi 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.320 hybridization of mammals and reptiles, which of course is a 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.240 great way to try and conceive what alien life forms 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.920 in an alien world might look like. If you look 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.919 at some of the Ralph McCrory early sketches for what 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.359 a ton tan was going to be. They're fascinating because 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.879 they kind of look like they look more like large 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.120 rodents or kind of like weird furry kangaroos. 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.920 Well, I see two different illustrations that you've included in 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.040 the outline here, I'd say, in the left one, yeah, 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.520 I see the large rodent. It looks like a big 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.679 mouse with a long shaggy tail and huge hind legs, bite, 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.640 big bipedal mouse. And then the one on the right 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.800 to me just looks like a furry velociraptor. 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:46.320 Yeah, yeah, it does. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:48.240 Yeah. 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.160 But it's also interesting to think about this as Okay, 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.639 it's kind of like a you know, thought experiment of 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.960 like what if reptiles could live in a snowy environment. Well, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:18:59.720 they'd have to be furry, they'd have to be kind 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.840 of half mammal, right, But you know, we increasingly, I guess, 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.399 realize that this isn't really necessary. A creature like this 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.720 without fur, though possibly with considerable feathers, could certainly work 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.520 in an environment similar to hawk and as we've discussed 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.359 before in the show, the penguin is just a great 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.720 example of how a dinosaur descendant does just fine in 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:20.640 a polar climate. 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.320 That's true. Penguins are dinosaurs, Yeah, the strange thing to 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:33.840 think about. 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.480 Now. We'll come back to some other scenes with tontons 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.080 here in a bit, but there's one scene involving the 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.760 tonton in Empire Strikes Back that is I'm sure already 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.440 on everybody's minds, and we teased it out a little earlier, 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.439 and that is, you know what happens inside of a 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.080 tonton sometimes. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.240 Sometimes sometimes what can be made of what's inside a 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.840 tonton if you're too cold? Yeah, So to set up 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:03.000 this scene at the beginning of the movie, Luke Skywalker 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.159 is out scouting. He's on the surface of Hawk, the 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.840 snowy world, on a tonton when he gets attacked and 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.720 dragged away by a wampa. And we're gonna come back 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.159 and talk about the wampa later in this episode, but 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.639 it is shown to be some kind of bipedal, carnivorous beast, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.800 like a predatory, abominable snowman. 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:21.160 Yeah. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.639 Luke later escapes the wampa's ice cave and then he 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:29.159 stumbles out into the snow as night is falling. So 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.400 it's going to be getting even colder on Hawth and 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.040 there he has a vision of his dead master, Obi 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.720 Wan Kenobi Obi Wan is telling him, Hey, gotta go 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.199 say hi to Yoda, Gotta go visit Yoda, And so 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:45.840 Luke is there in the cold saying Yoda, diego bus system. Meanwhile, 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.720 Han solo back at the rebel base. He learns that 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.000 Luke has not come in for the night, and so 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.840 he gets concerned about his friend and then rides out 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:58.200 on his own Tonton looking for him. So Han finds 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:03.000 Luke already collapsed in snow and delirious, and right when 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:08.480 Han gets there, his own Taunton dies. So improvising Han 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.720 takes Luke's lightsaber. I think this is the only time 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.840 in the main series we see Han solo using a lightsaber. 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.480 But he takes Luke's lightsaber and then he awkwardly turns 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.920 it on and slices open the Taunton belly, showing these 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:28.240 guts bulging out, many of which look like like transparent, 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:33.480 slimy white balloons. Kind of gross little appearance, and then 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:38.200 Han shoves the semi conscious loop inside the Tnton. We 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.960 don't see this directly happening. We get the Tonton in 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.720 the foreground and then you see something's happening on the 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:47.280 other side. You get some squishing sound effects, and Han says, 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:49.880 you know, it might not smell good, but it'll keep 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.960 him warm until Han is able to build the shelter. 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.240