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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're taking
Speaker 1: you beyond breast Cancer. It's Wednesday, June twenty fifth, and
Speaker 1: on today's show, we'll be skipping the need to know
Speaker 1: and getting right into my fantastic and fun interview with
Speaker 1: the very badass Melissa Ethridge. It's the latest installment of
Speaker 1: our new series Life Beyond Living Beyond Labels, a powerful
Speaker 1: podcast campaign brought to you by Iheartwomen's Sports. Our guest
Speaker 1: today is Grammy winning singer, songwriter and breast cancer survivor
Speaker 1: Melissa Ethridge. She joins me to reflect on her public
Speaker 1: cancer battle, how it transformed her approach to life and advocacy,
Speaker 1: and how music became a healing force during her recovery.
Speaker 1: Beyond the diagnosis, she shares her ongoing passion for empowering women,
Speaker 1: including her vocal support of women's soccer and her anthem
Speaker 1: performance at the NWSI Championship last season, plus my total
Speaker 1: lack of surprise learning that a women's sports team was
Speaker 1: behind her rise to fame. This episode is a tribute
Speaker 1: to living boldly, loving deeply, and refusing to be defined
Speaker 1: by a diagnosis. Our Life Beyond series showcases the extraordinary
Speaker 1: resilience and strength of successful women, diving deep into their lives,
Speaker 1: highlighting their personal journey's passions and the ways in which
Speaker 1: they're living beyond the labels they've been given by others.
Speaker 1: My conversation with Melissa is coming up right after this,
Speaker 1: Joining us now. She's a two time Grammy Award winner
Speaker 1: and fifteen time nominee and Academy Award winner for Best
Speaker 1: Original Song Again and lesbian rights activist, a mother, an author,
Speaker 1: and a cancer survivor. She's got a star on the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Walk of Fame. She crushed the national anthem at
Speaker 1: the NWSL Championship game last year, and she recently paid
Speaker 1: a visit to the secret Boston pup, the Lazy Nut tavern.
Speaker 1: It's Melissa Athrage.
Speaker 2: Hi, Melissa, Hello, Hello, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good, but I'm jealous you've been to the Lazy Nut.
Speaker 1: I have only seen photos and videos. I've not gotten
Speaker 1: the chance to go yet.
Speaker 2: It's an adventure, it really is.
Speaker 1: Did they make you drink milort?
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I was working, so I wasn't drinking,
Speaker 2: So okay, I know I watched them drink.
Speaker 1: Yes, I could have taken credit for that. A bunch
Speaker 1: of those scals came to Chicago and Wrigley for the
Speaker 1: Red Stars game at Wrigley Field, and I introduced him
Speaker 1: to the magical world of milort and they brought it
Speaker 1: back to the Lazy Nut. So next time, when you're
Speaker 1: not working, well, we'll make you do it. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about your sports ties. Because I was so excited to
Speaker 1: learn as I was researching for this that not only
Speaker 1: are you a huge sports fan, but sports actually played
Speaker 1: a big role in your big break as a musician.
Speaker 1: So tell me about Verme's Bar in Pasadena and how
Speaker 1: a friend from your women's soccer team actually was part
Speaker 1: of the reason you got discovered.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's crazy in Los Angeles. You just don't ever
Speaker 2: know how it's going to happen. So I had moved
Speaker 2: there in nineteen eighty two from Kansas. I grew up
Speaker 2: in Leavenworth, Kansas, and I'd done a lot of playing,
Speaker 2: and I got to LA and realized that there was
Speaker 2: another ten million people trying to do what I was doing.
Speaker 2: I wasn't unique, and nobody was paying for anybody to play.
Speaker 2: Everybody was. You would buy your own tickets and you
Speaker 2: would get like a gig once a month. And I
Speaker 2: was like, well, I'm going to starve if I try
Speaker 2: to do this. So I went to a women's bar
Speaker 2: because I'm a lesbian, and I went to a women's
Speaker 2: bar and saw that they had a piano in the corner,
Speaker 2: and I asked if they had music, and they said, no,
Speaker 2: that's from the steakhouse that used to be here. But hey,
Speaker 2: do you want to do something? And so I started
Speaker 2: playing in Long Beach for about five nights a week.
Speaker 2: Then when that started to fizzle out, there was a
Speaker 2: gal who said, hey, there's a bar in Pasadena. It's
Speaker 2: called Verni. He's a horrible name of a bar, but
Speaker 2: it was named after mouse. Long story, and I went
Speaker 2: there and they they took me in and I would
Speaker 2: play like three nights there and two nights in Long Beach,
Speaker 2: and it was just this perfect thing. And on Sundays,
Speaker 2: the girls from the soccer team, I think it cal
Speaker 2: Tech would come in after they had a game and
Speaker 2: they would play, and they were big fans and there
Speaker 2: was always a big table and they were great tippers
Speaker 2: and you know, they were wonderful. And one day they said,
Speaker 2: do you have a cassette? And I had made this
Speaker 2: silly demo and they said, because one of our coach's
Speaker 2: husband is a music manager and that you know, and
Speaker 2: you just you you take whatever anybody said. You're like, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: this is fine. So I gave him a tape and
Speaker 2: then the the wife came down and she loved it.
Speaker 2: She had a great night and she went back and
Speaker 2: she was like, look, you got to see this girl.
Speaker 2: And he's like, I don't want to say, I don't
Speaker 2: want to I don't want to go. So she finally
Speaker 2: got him to come down. He loved it. He signed
Speaker 2: me and he was my manager for thirty years. So, yes,
Speaker 2: soccer everything. I just I'm very grateful for those women,
Speaker 2: and yes, played a big part in my career.
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised to learn that a team of women
Speaker 1: are the ones who sought out how to lift up
Speaker 1: and help you rise. Along with their fun and enjoyment
Speaker 1: of you. It wasn't just about that. It was about
Speaker 1: let's help her now that we really enjoy I love that.
Speaker 1: There's another really great lesson in how your first album
Speaker 1: came together, kind of a surprising one from what we
Speaker 1: often hear about the music industry. Your first attempt at
Speaker 1: an album was actually rejected by Island Records because it
Speaker 1: was too polished. We normally hear about artists that want
Speaker 1: to be themselves and they make them more polished. But
Speaker 1: instead they said, nope, we don't like that, we like
Speaker 1: too you were, so you stripped it down to just
Speaker 1: you and the music, and that first album gets nominated
Speaker 1: for a Grammy. Were you surprised that they wanted you
Speaker 1: to be more gritty, less polished.
Speaker 2: No, I was, and I hadn't. I had no idea
Speaker 2: what I should do. I'd never made a record. I
Speaker 2: barely made a demo, and I was playing solo in
Speaker 2: this bar. And Chris Blackwell, who was the owner, he
Speaker 2: was just the guy who ran Island Records. This is
Speaker 2: back in the eighties, seventies and eighties, early nineties. There
Speaker 2: were actually guys who loved music that would go find
Speaker 2: it and sign it, and they were always looking for
Speaker 2: new stuff, and Chris loved what he saw. He saw
Speaker 2: me playing by myself, just in like jeans and a
Speaker 2: T shirt in the corner. He loved it. He heard
Speaker 2: like four songs that was all, and he says, I
Speaker 2: want you on my label, and he flew off to
Speaker 2: Jamaica wherever he went to, and I didn't see him
Speaker 2: until I turned it, so I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2: I got a producer and this guy was from northern
Speaker 2: California and he had done the way music was being
Speaker 2: done back then was very synthesizers were starting and it
Speaker 2: was very like produced and I didn't know how to do.
Speaker 2: So we sort of The guy kind of popped up
Speaker 2: my songs and I turned it in and Chris Blackwell
Speaker 2: actually said, well I hate this, and I was like,
Speaker 2: there you go. There was my chance, and I blew it.
Speaker 2: But myself and the other two guys in the band
Speaker 2: with me that I had put together, we were like, Okay,
Speaker 2: what he wants is what he saw in the bar.
Speaker 2: He saw a girl alone. So we went in and
Speaker 2: in four days totally recorded the first album, just did
Speaker 2: like three songs a day, boom boom boom, and mixed
Speaker 2: it and then bang, here it is. He loved it,
Speaker 2: and it's still to this day one of people's favorite albums.
Speaker 1: It's interesting how much you can be swayed by not
Speaker 1: knowing what's expected and just being like, Okay, I guess
Speaker 1: this is what you do when you make an album.
Speaker 1: It's like when I first went to ESPN and for
Speaker 1: my first TV gigs and got my hair and makeup done,
Speaker 1: I looked like a fifty five year old New Jersey
Speaker 1: reeltur and I was like, well, I guess this is
Speaker 1: what I look like with a lot of makeup. Like
Speaker 1: I just didn't have any idea that I could say
Speaker 1: I don't really like that, or I don't think that's me.
Speaker 2: That's the thing about women helping women, And here were
Speaker 2: you and I in these places that had formerly been
Speaker 2: all men. I didn't know what to do. I didn't
Speaker 2: know how to behave. I didn't know anything, and you're
Speaker 2: just looking around trying to figure it out, and then
Speaker 2: you fall on your face a couple of times and go, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: this is what.
Speaker 1: I'm Okay, now I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and now, And that's why we like to
Speaker 2: help women. It's like, look, let me help you do
Speaker 2: this because it's a rough road on your own.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you put out three albums before you came out
Speaker 1: publicly as a lesbian at ninety three, and your first
Speaker 1: album after coming out was your big breakthrough hit. Yes,
Speaker 1: I am two mainstream, big radio hits come to my
Speaker 1: window and I'm the only one. Can you make a
Speaker 1: direct line between being publicly your full self and the
Speaker 1: success that followed.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I believe. I believe that what you put
Speaker 2: out in the world comes back to you. So being
Speaker 2: that open and honest people I think really related to it.
Speaker 2: But this is nineteen ninety three, this is long before
Speaker 2: social media, the internet was jazz starting, so that wouldn't
Speaker 2: play a big part. This was me coming out and
Speaker 2: slowly every little place, every town I played, every little
Speaker 2: local newspaper would do an interview. It wasn't like I
Speaker 2: came out and the whole world knew I was gay.
Speaker 2: Little by little, they and I would find that people
Speaker 2: would want to do articles and long articles with me
Speaker 2: and give me much space. So actually the publicity that
Speaker 2: I got coming out really helped bring this album to
Speaker 2: the forefront. It took a while, this album for a
Speaker 2: long time. It come to my window, had held the
Speaker 2: record for being on the charts for the longest time.
Speaker 2: It never I don't even think it ever broke the
Speaker 2: top ten, but it was on the charts because it
Speaker 2: just took that.
Speaker 1: It was like waves of people learning about it.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is slowly, slowly. And the gay part was
Speaker 2: a talking point and I ended up talking about being
Speaker 2: gay for about five years just that's all I could
Speaker 2: talk about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a hook when you need to
Speaker 1: separate yourself from the pack, and that's a scary hook
Speaker 1: in ninety three when you're not sure how people will respond.
Speaker 1: But to your point, it allows people to tell a
Speaker 1: story beyond here's a song. See if you like it, it's
Speaker 1: here's a song, and here's the woman behind it that
Speaker 1: has a story to tell. Did it feel different to
Speaker 1: you either writing that album or promoting that album. Did
Speaker 1: you consider how people would receive your music through the
Speaker 1: lens of your sexuality or the lyrics you were writing,
Speaker 1: or the stories you were telling it anyway?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was, of course, you know, the unknown. I'd
Speaker 2: never there really had never been someone that came out
Speaker 2: and didn't put out an album and like that, and
Speaker 2: so I didn't know. I had no idea and I
Speaker 2: would perform and what would end up happening is the
Speaker 2: first section of people were just gazed, just losing their minds,
Speaker 2: you know, and then the rest yeah, right, And it
Speaker 2: was and I found that they were gathering they other
Speaker 2: than the little bars they had in towns. There was
Speaker 2: no place that everyone gathered at once, and it was
Speaker 2: a It was very emotional to actually see that in
Speaker 2: the audience and see people being themselves. But then also
Speaker 2: to see straight people going oh, those are gay people,
Speaker 2: you know, and and everyone kind of going, oh, well,
Speaker 2: this is well, we like the same music. And that
Speaker 2: that was very empowering to me saying, Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: I've got both going on here. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: just serve one or the other. And I've always kept
Speaker 2: my well in the beginning, I don't now it's not
Speaker 2: a big deal now to do gender specific, but back
Speaker 2: then I was very just let it be they them,
Speaker 2: and you guys just you know, take it however you want.
Speaker 2: But it was it was scary, but it was great.
Speaker 2: It was great.
Speaker 1: I think it's not a surprise when you see communities
Speaker 1: rally around someone that speaks for and to them, particularly
Speaker 1: the queer community. Women like in spaces where you often
Speaker 1: feel like you're allowed to come, but it's not for you.
Speaker 1: It's you get tired of that, and sometimes trying to
Speaker 1: explain to men what it feels like to watch women
Speaker 1: play professional sports, what it feels like to see women
Speaker 1: be fully embodied and empowered and badass. It's just a
Speaker 1: different experience for me than watching your favorite guy play
Speaker 1: like You're getting a lot out of that. You want
Speaker 1: to be him. You idolize them. He's awesome, he's richie's famous,
Speaker 1: he's really successful, he's good at dunking great. It feels different.
Speaker 1: You have a million examples of power and earnest and
Speaker 1: authentic self in men across every space, and for women,
Speaker 1: feels like there's just not as many places to watch
Speaker 1: that unapologetically, and so I feel like music too. It
Speaker 1: it feels different to feel spoken to and included and
Speaker 1: pointed out, as opposed to just a part of it.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the reasons you wanted to have
Speaker 1: you on was to talk about your breast cancer diagnosis
Speaker 1: and your reaction to that, because I do think the
Speaker 1: community of people who have been through this speak to
Speaker 1: each other in a way that feels really powerful of
Speaker 1: like I've been there, I understand and it changed me.
Speaker 1: So in two thousand and four, you were diagnosed. You know,
Speaker 1: I just met with a friend a few weeks ago
Speaker 1: who told me that she remembered her mammogram, and she
Speaker 1: remembered the beginning of the follow up appointment that they
Speaker 1: asked her to come to. But she still, years later,
Speaker 1: can't recall anything that she was told. That day. After
Speaker 1: she was told you have breast cancer. She went home
Speaker 1: in a blur. She had to finish work, she had
Speaker 1: to take calls and meetings, and then her husband got
Speaker 1: home and said, how was your day, and she said,
Speaker 1: not great. Actually she doesn't remember any of that. So
Speaker 1: can you take me back to the moment that you
Speaker 1: heard those words and got the news and your reaction
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 2: It was a very slow I remember it in slow
Speaker 2: motion because it was it started. I was in Canada,
Speaker 2: I was on tour, and I had sort of I've
Speaker 2: come to a point in my life where I'd gotten
Speaker 2: my first divorce, my first relationship fell apart, I had
Speaker 2: two kids. I was super stressed. The music industry was changing.
Speaker 2: It was all There was no more singer songwriters or
Speaker 2: rock and roll I didn't know what I was going
Speaker 2: to do. I was I was unhappy. I had that
Speaker 2: just stressed, unhappy life. And I remember looking up to
Speaker 2: the heavens and saying, what what what do you want
Speaker 2: from me? What do I do? What do I do now?
Speaker 2: And that next morning, I woke up and was showering
Speaker 2: and I found lump and was like, well, that's not
Speaker 2: what I was talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't hand me something else more problems.
Speaker 2: And I found it and I remember touching it and
Speaker 2: wondering why the world did I feel this yesterday? You know,
Speaker 2: because it was it was big, and I I remember going,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, this could this Because my father had cancer.
Speaker 2: He died of cancer. My aunt, my grandmother was everywhere
Speaker 2: in my family, and I slowly I came home the
Speaker 2: next day. I was flying home anyway, and I had
Speaker 2: like a few days off before I was supposed to
Speaker 2: go to Boston actually, and I went to my doctor
Speaker 2: and was like, I found this, and she's like, I'm
Speaker 2: afraid I might know what this is. Sent me to
Speaker 2: the radiologist the next day, knowing that I only had
Speaker 2: so much time, and the radiologist was the was the
Speaker 2: one who had helped with my children you know, did
Speaker 2: the sonograms and the kids and stuff, so I knew her.
Speaker 2: And she biopsy did, which was it was so dense
Speaker 2: that she couldn't pull the thing out. She got to
Speaker 2: literally put her foot up and out of me in bloods.
Speaker 2: It's really a horrible experience. But she at that time,
Speaker 2: because she was a friend, she said, look, I'm not
Speaker 2: supposed to do this, but you know, I look at
Speaker 2: these all day and I know what this is, and
Speaker 2: I just want you to know that you're going to
Speaker 2: be fine. And she goes, and this is the worst
Speaker 2: that can happen to you, and she unbuttoned her blouse
Speaker 2: and showed me her double mistectomy. I had no idea
Speaker 2: that she had that. And she goes, this is the worst,
Speaker 2: but you're not even there, you know, and you will
Speaker 2: be fine. And just starting with that, just going okay,
Speaker 2: whatever this journey is, I'm going to be fine. And
Speaker 2: then I walked through it and it was. It was
Speaker 2: indeed the most incredible thing that ever happened to me,
Speaker 2: because I changed my life. I changed the stress. I
Speaker 2: no longer let stress run my life that was going
Speaker 2: to kill me. And I changed in my food habits,
Speaker 2: my exercise just my state of mind. I used a
Speaker 2: lot of cannabis that helped me. Here in California, we
Speaker 2: have that. It was very medicinal and it really changed
Speaker 2: me as a person, and I am now twenty one
Speaker 2: years cancer free.
Speaker 1: We got to take a quick break. When we come back.
Speaker 1: The rest of my conversation with Melissa Ethridge, I want
Speaker 1: to talk about the two thousand and five Grammy Awards.
Speaker 1: You were performing with Josh Stone. You sang a tribute
Speaker 1: to Janis Joplin and you were bald. What were the
Speaker 1: emotions heading into that performance and why did you choose
Speaker 1: to be bald instead of wearing a wig.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny. My surgeon who took the lumps out
Speaker 2: and took I had three separate surgeries to get everything out,
Speaker 2: get the margins clear. It was in the left nodes,
Speaker 2: but they were able to get it before it got
Speaker 2: all the way in there. And and this doctor said,
Speaker 2: so you're gonna need chemo. You're gonna need lots of
Speaker 2: chemo dose dents. Uh. And so you're gonna be bald,
Speaker 2: So you're gonna need a wig because no one wants
Speaker 2: to see a bald rock star. This is what she
Speaker 2: said to me. And I was like, what this just did?
Speaker 2: I was like scary and weird. And then I when
Speaker 2: I knew I was going to be toward the end
Speaker 2: of the Treatments, when I knew I was going to
Speaker 2: be on the on the Grammys, I asked my friends.
Speaker 2: I was like, what do you think should I be bald?
Speaker 2: I also had a stylist get me kind of a
Speaker 2: handkerchief as swayed. I had that I was maybe gonna
Speaker 2: wear that, and everything on my head made me so
Speaker 2: hot because I was getting hot flashes because they chemo
Speaker 2: puts you into menopause and and I was like, I
Speaker 2: just I can't. I'm just I'm just gonna go bald.
Speaker 2: And I remember telling the lighting director and every said,
Speaker 2: I said, I'm going to be bald. So I don't
Speaker 2: know if that changes how you're going to do anything.
Speaker 2: And I just didn't want anybody to make fun of me.
Speaker 2: And right before I went on my guitar player, he said,
Speaker 2: he goes, Melissa, you don't know what you're about to do,
Speaker 2: do you? And I said, I don't know what you mean,
Speaker 2: and he goes, well, just watch And I went out.
Speaker 2: And I still get a little choked up because the
Speaker 2: audience was so warm and loving and they just just
Speaker 2: received it so well and it was one of the
Speaker 2: greatest moments of my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it actually inspired a song by India I Ree
Speaker 1: I Am not my Heart No, Yeah, I love pretty powerful.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, one of my best friends, unfortunately, was recently
Speaker 1: diagnosed with multiple my law and she is going to
Speaker 1: undergo a stem cell transplant in a couple months, and
Speaker 1: she's going to lose her hair. And we were talking
Speaker 1: the other day about if she wants to wear a
Speaker 1: wig that looks like her, or wear a wig that's
Speaker 1: like totally wacky and fun, or just go bald. And
Speaker 1: she said the same thing about how she's already hot
Speaker 1: all the time, and so she's a little worried about
Speaker 1: this wedding. Do you have advice for her or for
Speaker 1: others who are scared about that particular moment where everybody
Speaker 1: will know that you're going through something. It will be
Speaker 1: written all over your face and your hair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay. It's okay for everyone to know that.
Speaker 2: It's okay for people to know that you're at a
Speaker 2: point in your life where you're changing and you're working
Speaker 2: on it, and you're working on health, and it's nothing
Speaker 2: to be sad about. You are doing what you need
Speaker 2: to do. And part of that weird shame about our
Speaker 2: hair and what we look like is a part of
Speaker 2: the problem of why we're sick. So time to let
Speaker 2: that go. Time to know that we look gorgeous without
Speaker 2: our hair or not. And I love it because sometimes
Speaker 2: I see people bald women and I'm like, could be
Speaker 2: a choice? Could be? You know, because I'm telling you,
Speaker 2: losing my hair felt amazing. One. I love people rubbing
Speaker 2: my head. That was really really I would get massages
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, just rub my head. And I
Speaker 2: would actually recommend just once in every woman's life to
Speaker 2: shave her head, whether she's sick or not, but just
Speaker 2: to shave her head because there's a lot of energy
Speaker 2: and hair and you let it go and it's really
Speaker 2: a great experience. And someday I'll go back to really
Speaker 2: short hair. I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1: You've always written very personal song, songs about issues that
Speaker 1: matter to you, songs about your life. Did your cancer
Speaker 1: battle make it into your music?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The first album I made after that was
Speaker 2: called The Awakening because it's less about being sick, because
Speaker 2: that was just the symptom of the change that I
Speaker 2: needed to make in my own spirit, in my own life.
Speaker 2: And it's more about waking up to oh this, I'm
Speaker 2: in charge of me. I can't. I got to be
Speaker 2: okay first before I help anybody else. And so many
Speaker 2: women we take care of everybody else. We want everyone
Speaker 2: to be happy and then we'll be happy. And that's
Speaker 2: a You keep doing that and you will get sick
Speaker 2: because that's not how we're made. We're made to make
Speaker 2: sure we are good, we are well, and that's the
Speaker 2: only way we can help anybody else.
Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, what's been the hardest part for you over
Speaker 1: the course of the decades that you've been in the
Speaker 1: public eye and had a voice and an agency of
Speaker 1: standing up for things even when society might not be ready,
Speaker 1: or maybe when the loudest voices might be trying to
Speaker 1: shout you down. What's been the toughest part for you?
Speaker 2: Well, the toughest thing was probably just five years ago
Speaker 2: when I lost my son to an opioid overdose, because
Speaker 2: that's like, that just knocks you down and you don't
Speaker 2: there's so much guilt and shame involved in that as
Speaker 2: a parent that that can really really be hard, and
Speaker 2: it was, and it was during the pandemic, so it
Speaker 2: was a very very strange time. And what I've done
Speaker 2: to help with that is to start the Etherage Foundation,
Speaker 2: which is at the forefront now of providing funds for
Speaker 2: research into plant medicine, into psychedelics and how they can
Speaker 2: help and help with our emotional systems that lead to
Speaker 2: pain relief and opioids within heroin and then fentanyl and death.
Speaker 2: And so it's trying to change that. And there's a
Speaker 2: lot of misinformation and a lot of people saying different things,
Speaker 2: but I have a deep belief that as an alternative
Speaker 2: to opioids, in helping with addiction, opioid use, disorder, all
Speaker 2: these things, plat medicine can it really has a lot
Speaker 2: of answers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was really skeptical about it, to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, and I think because it was so often
Speaker 1: associated with folks who were presenting it in this sort
Speaker 1: of hippie dippy cult like way. And when I listen
Speaker 1: to doctors talk about the appropriate usage of it and
Speaker 1: how it sort of takes the topography of your brain
Speaker 1: that you've created over the years to help hide away
Speaker 1: trauma or go around something instead of through it and
Speaker 1: dealing with it. How it levels that out and you're
Speaker 1: forced to go through the things that your body has
Speaker 1: tried to protect you from, and that's the only way
Speaker 1: to actually integrate them into the rest of your memory
Speaker 1: and learning and get through them, process them, and move
Speaker 1: past them. As soon as that was explained to me,
Speaker 1: it made such sense, and having read a lot of
Speaker 1: books of late for the book that I wrote, I
Speaker 1: started to be much less judgmental about the things I
Speaker 1: didn't understand, particularly when they were presented to me in
Speaker 1: sort of a logical and thoughtful way as opposed to like,
Speaker 1: come to my tent in the woods and I'll show
Speaker 1: you the magic of ayahuasca. Right, But I love what
Speaker 1: I love you said, because you know, Robin Roberts always says,
Speaker 1: make your mess your message. It's easier said than done.
Speaker 1: But if you can find a way to turn the
Speaker 1: deepest of pain into something proactive where it feels like
Speaker 1: you're making a change and helping at least something came
Speaker 1: from it and you're not just just held down by
Speaker 1: it hurts, and you are also choosing to make something
Speaker 1: of it. And that's really powerful that you decided to
Speaker 1: do that. I want to close our conversation with something fun.
Speaker 1: So it's a speed round, a speed round for you
Speaker 1: because there are too many questions and too little time.
Speaker 1: What's the most nervous you've ever been for a performance?
Speaker 2: Singing the national anthem at the Old series Game seven
Speaker 2: two thousand one, two thousand and one. I believe giants angels?
Speaker 1: Okay. Dream collaborator for an album or a live show
Speaker 1: or a song.
Speaker 2: Wow, I've got a lot of my dreams have come true.
Speaker 2: I did sing with Bruce Springsteen. I've sung with a
Speaker 2: lot of people. Dream collab that kind of always changes.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was always Barbara Streis him for a
Speaker 2: long time, but I know she's never gonna sing with me,
Speaker 2: so that took you know, But now it'd be like,
Speaker 2: it'd be fun to do something like with Chapel Roone.
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say that. I knew it.
Speaker 1: I knew it.
Speaker 2: She's fun. That would be too much people's heads would
Speaker 2: explain exactly.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see you doing Pink Pony Club. I'd
Speaker 1: like to see it. I was at a show last
Speaker 1: night actually in the lead singer said, at this point,
Speaker 1: I have lived out all of my dreams and dreams
Speaker 1: I never had. At this point, I'm just stealing other
Speaker 1: people's dreams, like things he had never imagined he could do.
Speaker 1: He was doing so now he figured they must be
Speaker 1: somebody else's that he stole. Who's the musician who's talent
Speaker 1: you're most envious of? Alive or dead?
Speaker 2: Peter Gabriel made some music in the eighties and the
Speaker 2: nineties that I really wished I was that sort of
Speaker 2: it was. It was when tech and music was meeting,
Speaker 2: and he did it so well, and he wrote in
Speaker 2: Your Eyes, which I think is the greatest song ever,
Speaker 2: and I'm always jealous. I always go, God, I wish
Speaker 2: I've written that song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like tech plus mysticism. Somehow he made it.
Speaker 1: He made it mesh in a way that like felt right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's the thing you've gotten to do in your career
Speaker 1: that still feels like a pinch me. I can't believe
Speaker 1: that happened.
Speaker 2: Moment well, singing with Bruce Springsteen, Yeah, yeah, that was
Speaker 2: like bench main. I didn't want it to end. I
Speaker 2: listened to it and I can still hear my heart
Speaker 2: beat as I'm introducing him, you know, telling everyone, oh
Speaker 2: my God, I get to sing with Springstein, that's probably one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What about the goal or accomplishment you're working toward
Speaker 1: now in life, career or otherwise.
Speaker 2: Oh, now, it's about longevity. Now, it's about you know,
Speaker 2: when you when you reach your goals, when you when
Speaker 2: your dreams come true, you realize that it was never
Speaker 2: the dream, it was never the thing and getting the
Speaker 2: thing or doing the thing, it was the journey to
Speaker 2: the thing is the most fun, absolutely, And I've done
Speaker 2: enough that I know that for sure. So now I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: let me put these dreams out in front of me,
Speaker 2: let me put this goal. But let me take my time,
Speaker 2: you know, let me take my time going through the process,
Speaker 2: because I know when I get there, I'm going to
Speaker 2: want something else. It's gonna because it's about the dream.
Speaker 2: It's about keep moving. So my goal is to be
Speaker 2: in older older and older older age and still performing
Speaker 2: and rocking and making music and writing about my life
Speaker 2: and talking to you know, wonderful young women like you
Speaker 2: and just doing that. That's my that's the goal. Now.
Speaker 1: It's wild how many very successful people have the same
Speaker 1: message about what it feels like on the other side
Speaker 1: of success or the thing they always wanted, and it's
Speaker 1: impossible to impart that to people who are just getting started.
Speaker 1: You can never explain to them that the process of
Speaker 1: getting there is the thing too, because they're so hungry
Speaker 1: to prove to themselves and to others that they've made
Speaker 1: it or they've done it. There's a great song Hosier
Speaker 1: and Brandy Carlisle Damage Gets Done, that I think like
Speaker 1: hits it perfectly. There's this line about the it's the
Speaker 1: comforts that make us feel numb, and he writes about
Speaker 1: we'd go out with no way to get home, we'd
Speaker 1: sleep on someone's floor and wake up feeling like a millionaire.
Speaker 1: And you do remember, looking back now at your twenties,
Speaker 1: when you were broke, you weren't sure if you were
Speaker 1: ever going to make it at anything. You and your
Speaker 1: friends were sort of like, who are we what are
Speaker 1: we going to do? We're going to pay rent? And
Speaker 1: now when you're successful and rich later, you look back,
Speaker 1: you're like, man, that was fun.
Speaker 2: Fun at the wanting, the desire, the someday that yeah,
Speaker 2: And so I try to keep that as much as
Speaker 2: I can.
Speaker 1: It's hard in the moment when you're like, nobody, I
Speaker 1: really do need to pay rent, but it is. You
Speaker 1: can romanticize it later when it all works out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: All right, last question for you, since this is living beyond,
Speaker 1: if you look at Melissa Ethriche beyond breast cancer, you'll find.
Speaker 2: What, Oh, a woman having a great time in this
Speaker 2: life right now, just loving every moment, every moment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you so much, Thank you, Sarah anytime.
Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Good
Speaker 1: find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our
Speaker 1: producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers
Speaker 1: are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rutterer.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm
Speaker 1: your host Sarah Spain