1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: This show was independently created by iHeartMedia. Novarda's Pharmaceuticals Corp. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Is the exclusive advertising partner. It is intended for informational 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: and educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: Please speak with your healthcare professional before making any treatment decisions. 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're taking 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: you beyond breast Cancer. It's Wednesday, June twenty fifth, and 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: on today's show, we'll be skipping the need to know 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: and getting right into my fantastic and fun interview with 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: the very badass Melissa Ethridge. It's the latest installment of 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: our new series Life Beyond Living Beyond Labels, a powerful 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: podcast campaign brought to you by Iheartwomen's Sports. Our guest 12 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: today is Grammy winning singer, songwriter and breast cancer survivor 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: Melissa Ethridge. She joins me to reflect on her public 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: cancer battle, how it transformed her approach to life and advocacy, 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: and how music became a healing force during her recovery. 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: Beyond the diagnosis, she shares her ongoing passion for empowering women, 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: including her vocal support of women's soccer and her anthem 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: performance at the NWSI Championship last season, plus my total 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: lack of surprise learning that a women's sports team was 20 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: behind her rise to fame. This episode is a tribute 21 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: to living boldly, loving deeply, and refusing to be defined 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: by a diagnosis. Our Life Beyond series showcases the extraordinary 23 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: resilience and strength of successful women, diving deep into their lives, 24 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: highlighting their personal journey's passions and the ways in which 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: they're living beyond the labels they've been given by others. 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: My conversation with Melissa is coming up right after this, 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: Joining us now. She's a two time Grammy Award winner 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: and fifteen time nominee and Academy Award winner for Best 29 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: Original Song Again and lesbian rights activist, a mother, an author, 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: and a cancer survivor. She's got a star on the 31 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: Hollywood Walk of Fame. She crushed the national anthem at 32 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: the NWSL Championship game last year, and she recently paid 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: a visit to the secret Boston pup, the Lazy Nut tavern. 34 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: It's Melissa Athrage. 35 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: Hi, Melissa, Hello, Hello, Hello, how are you? 36 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: I'm good, but I'm jealous you've been to the Lazy Nut. 37 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: I have only seen photos and videos. I've not gotten 38 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: the chance to go yet. 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: It's an adventure, it really is. 40 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: Did they make you drink milort? 41 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I was working, so I wasn't drinking, 42 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: So okay, I know I watched them drink. 43 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 1: Yes, I could have taken credit for that. A bunch 44 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: of those scals came to Chicago and Wrigley for the 45 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: Red Stars game at Wrigley Field, and I introduced him 46 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: to the magical world of milort and they brought it 47 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: back to the Lazy Nut. So next time, when you're 48 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: not working, well, we'll make you do it. Let's talk 49 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: about your sports ties. Because I was so excited to 50 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: learn as I was researching for this that not only 51 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: are you a huge sports fan, but sports actually played 52 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: a big role in your big break as a musician. 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: So tell me about Verme's Bar in Pasadena and how 54 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: a friend from your women's soccer team actually was part 55 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: of the reason you got discovered. 56 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 2: Yes, it's crazy in Los Angeles. You just don't ever 57 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: know how it's going to happen. So I had moved 58 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 2: there in nineteen eighty two from Kansas. I grew up 59 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: in Leavenworth, Kansas, and I'd done a lot of playing, 60 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: and I got to LA and realized that there was 61 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: another ten million people trying to do what I was doing. 62 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: I wasn't unique, and nobody was paying for anybody to play. 63 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: Everybody was. You would buy your own tickets and you 64 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: would get like a gig once a month. And I 65 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,119 Speaker 2: was like, well, I'm going to starve if I try 66 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: to do this. So I went to a women's bar 67 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: because I'm a lesbian, and I went to a women's 68 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: bar and saw that they had a piano in the corner, 69 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: and I asked if they had music, and they said, no, 70 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: that's from the steakhouse that used to be here. But hey, 71 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: do you want to do something? And so I started 72 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: playing in Long Beach for about five nights a week. 73 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: Then when that started to fizzle out, there was a 74 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: gal who said, hey, there's a bar in Pasadena. It's 75 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: called Verni. He's a horrible name of a bar, but 76 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: it was named after mouse. Long story, and I went 77 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: there and they they took me in and I would 78 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: play like three nights there and two nights in Long Beach, 79 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: and it was just this perfect thing. And on Sundays, 80 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: the girls from the soccer team, I think it cal 81 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: Tech would come in after they had a game and 82 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: they would play, and they were big fans and there 83 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: was always a big table and they were great tippers 84 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: and you know, they were wonderful. And one day they said, 85 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: do you have a cassette? And I had made this 86 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 2: silly demo and they said, because one of our coach's 87 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: husband is a music manager and that you know, and 88 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: you just you you take whatever anybody said. You're like, yes, okay, 89 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: this is fine. So I gave him a tape and 90 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: then the the wife came down and she loved it. 91 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 2: She had a great night and she went back and 92 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: she was like, look, you got to see this girl. 93 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: And he's like, I don't want to say, I don't 94 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: want to I don't want to go. So she finally 95 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: got him to come down. He loved it. He signed 96 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 2: me and he was my manager for thirty years. So, yes, 97 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: soccer everything. I just I'm very grateful for those women, 98 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: and yes, played a big part in my career. 99 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm not surprised to learn that a team of women 100 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: are the ones who sought out how to lift up 101 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: and help you rise. Along with their fun and enjoyment 102 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: of you. It wasn't just about that. It was about 103 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: let's help her now that we really enjoy I love that. 104 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: There's another really great lesson in how your first album 105 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: came together, kind of a surprising one from what we 106 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: often hear about the music industry. Your first attempt at 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: an album was actually rejected by Island Records because it 108 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: was too polished. We normally hear about artists that want 109 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: to be themselves and they make them more polished. But 110 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: instead they said, nope, we don't like that, we like 111 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: too you were, so you stripped it down to just 112 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: you and the music, and that first album gets nominated 113 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: for a Grammy. Were you surprised that they wanted you 114 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: to be more gritty, less polished. 115 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 2: No, I was, and I hadn't. I had no idea 116 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: what I should do. I'd never made a record. I 117 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: barely made a demo, and I was playing solo in 118 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: this bar. And Chris Blackwell, who was the owner, he 119 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: was just the guy who ran Island Records. This is 120 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: back in the eighties, seventies and eighties, early nineties. There 121 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: were actually guys who loved music that would go find 122 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: it and sign it, and they were always looking for 123 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: new stuff, and Chris loved what he saw. He saw 124 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: me playing by myself, just in like jeans and a 125 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: T shirt in the corner. He loved it. He heard 126 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: like four songs that was all, and he says, I 127 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: want you on my label, and he flew off to 128 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: Jamaica wherever he went to, and I didn't see him 129 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: until I turned it, so I didn't know what to do. 130 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: I got a producer and this guy was from northern 131 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 2: California and he had done the way music was being 132 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: done back then was very synthesizers were starting and it 133 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: was very like produced and I didn't know how to do. 134 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: So we sort of The guy kind of popped up 135 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: my songs and I turned it in and Chris Blackwell 136 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: actually said, well I hate this, and I was like, 137 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: there you go. There was my chance, and I blew it. 138 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: But myself and the other two guys in the band 139 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: with me that I had put together, we were like, Okay, 140 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: what he wants is what he saw in the bar. 141 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: He saw a girl alone. So we went in and 142 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: in four days totally recorded the first album, just did 143 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 2: like three songs a day, boom boom boom, and mixed 144 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: it and then bang, here it is. He loved it, 145 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: and it's still to this day one of people's favorite albums. 146 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: It's interesting how much you can be swayed by not 147 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: knowing what's expected and just being like, Okay, I guess 148 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: this is what you do when you make an album. 149 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: It's like when I first went to ESPN and for 150 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: my first TV gigs and got my hair and makeup done, 151 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: I looked like a fifty five year old New Jersey 152 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: reeltur and I was like, well, I guess this is 153 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: what I look like with a lot of makeup. Like 154 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: I just didn't have any idea that I could say 155 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: I don't really like that, or I don't think that's me. 156 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: That's the thing about women helping women, And here were 157 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: you and I in these places that had formerly been 158 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: all men. I didn't know what to do. I didn't 159 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: know how to behave. I didn't know anything, and you're 160 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: just looking around trying to figure it out, and then 161 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 2: you fall on your face a couple of times and go, oh, okay, 162 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: this is what. 163 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: I'm Okay, now I get it. 164 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and now, And that's why we like to 165 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: help women. It's like, look, let me help you do 166 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 2: this because it's a rough road on your own. 167 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you put out three albums before you came out 168 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: publicly as a lesbian at ninety three, and your first 169 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: album after coming out was your big breakthrough hit. Yes, 170 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: I am two mainstream, big radio hits come to my 171 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: window and I'm the only one. Can you make a 172 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: direct line between being publicly your full self and the 173 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: success that followed. 174 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I believe. I believe that what you put 175 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 2: out in the world comes back to you. So being 176 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: that open and honest people I think really related to it. 177 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: But this is nineteen ninety three, this is long before 178 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 2: social media, the internet was jazz starting, so that wouldn't 179 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: play a big part. This was me coming out and 180 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: slowly every little place, every town I played, every little 181 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: local newspaper would do an interview. It wasn't like I 182 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: came out and the whole world knew I was gay. 183 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: Little by little, they and I would find that people 184 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: would want to do articles and long articles with me 185 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: and give me much space. So actually the publicity that 186 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: I got coming out really helped bring this album to 187 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 2: the forefront. It took a while, this album for a 188 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: long time. It come to my window, had held the 189 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: record for being on the charts for the longest time. 190 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: It never I don't even think it ever broke the 191 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: top ten, but it was on the charts because it 192 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: just took that. 193 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: It was like waves of people learning about it. 194 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: Yes, it is slowly, slowly. And the gay part was 195 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 2: a talking point and I ended up talking about being 196 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: gay for about five years just that's all I could 197 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: talk about. 198 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a hook when you need to 199 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: separate yourself from the pack, and that's a scary hook 200 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: in ninety three when you're not sure how people will respond. 201 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: But to your point, it allows people to tell a 202 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: story beyond here's a song. See if you like it, it's 203 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: here's a song, and here's the woman behind it that 204 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: has a story to tell. Did it feel different to 205 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: you either writing that album or promoting that album. Did 206 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: you consider how people would receive your music through the 207 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: lens of your sexuality or the lyrics you were writing, 208 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: or the stories you were telling it anyway? 209 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was, of course, you know, the unknown. I'd 210 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: never there really had never been someone that came out 211 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: and didn't put out an album and like that, and 212 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 2: so I didn't know. I had no idea and I 213 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 2: would perform and what would end up happening is the 214 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: first section of people were just gazed, just losing their minds, 215 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: you know, and then the rest yeah, right, And it 216 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: was and I found that they were gathering they other 217 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 2: than the little bars they had in towns. There was 218 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 2: no place that everyone gathered at once, and it was 219 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: a It was very emotional to actually see that in 220 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: the audience and see people being themselves. But then also 221 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 2: to see straight people going oh, those are gay people, 222 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: you know, and and everyone kind of going, oh, well, 223 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: this is well, we like the same music. And that 224 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: that was very empowering to me saying, Okay, you know, 225 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 2: I've got both going on here. I'm not going to 226 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: just serve one or the other. And I've always kept 227 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: my well in the beginning, I don't now it's not 228 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: a big deal now to do gender specific, but back 229 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: then I was very just let it be they them, 230 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 2: and you guys just you know, take it however you want. 231 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 2: But it was it was scary, but it was great. 232 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: It was great. 233 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: I think it's not a surprise when you see communities 234 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: rally around someone that speaks for and to them, particularly 235 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: the queer community. Women like in spaces where you often 236 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: feel like you're allowed to come, but it's not for you. 237 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: It's you get tired of that, and sometimes trying to 238 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: explain to men what it feels like to watch women 239 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: play professional sports, what it feels like to see women 240 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: be fully embodied and empowered and badass. It's just a 241 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: different experience for me than watching your favorite guy play 242 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: like You're getting a lot out of that. You want 243 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: to be him. You idolize them. He's awesome, he's richie's famous, 244 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: he's really successful, he's good at dunking great. It feels different. 245 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: You have a million examples of power and earnest and 246 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: authentic self in men across every space, and for women, 247 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: feels like there's just not as many places to watch 248 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: that unapologetically, and so I feel like music too. It 249 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: it feels different to feel spoken to and included and 250 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: pointed out, as opposed to just a part of it. 251 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: You know, one of the reasons you wanted to have 252 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: you on was to talk about your breast cancer diagnosis 253 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: and your reaction to that, because I do think the 254 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: community of people who have been through this speak to 255 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: each other in a way that feels really powerful of 256 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: like I've been there, I understand and it changed me. 257 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: So in two thousand and four, you were diagnosed. You know, 258 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: I just met with a friend a few weeks ago 259 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: who told me that she remembered her mammogram, and she 260 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: remembered the beginning of the follow up appointment that they 261 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: asked her to come to. But she still, years later, 262 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: can't recall anything that she was told. That day. After 263 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: she was told you have breast cancer. She went home 264 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: in a blur. She had to finish work, she had 265 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: to take calls and meetings, and then her husband got 266 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: home and said, how was your day, and she said, 267 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: not great. Actually she doesn't remember any of that. So 268 00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: can you take me back to the moment that you 269 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: heard those words and got the news and your reaction 270 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: to it. 271 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 2: It was a very slow I remember it in slow 272 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: motion because it was it started. I was in Canada, 273 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: I was on tour, and I had sort of I've 274 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: come to a point in my life where I'd gotten 275 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: my first divorce, my first relationship fell apart, I had 276 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: two kids. I was super stressed. The music industry was changing. 277 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: It was all There was no more singer songwriters or 278 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: rock and roll I didn't know what I was going 279 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: to do. I was I was unhappy. I had that 280 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: just stressed, unhappy life. And I remember looking up to 281 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: the heavens and saying, what what what do you want 282 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 2: from me? What do I do? What do I do now? 283 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: And that next morning, I woke up and was showering 284 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: and I found lump and was like, well, that's not 285 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: what I was talking about. 286 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, don't hand me something else more problems. 287 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: And I found it and I remember touching it and 288 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: wondering why the world did I feel this yesterday? You know, 289 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: because it was it was big, and I I remember going, 290 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: wait a minute, this could this Because my father had cancer. 291 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: He died of cancer. My aunt, my grandmother was everywhere 292 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: in my family, and I slowly I came home the 293 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: next day. I was flying home anyway, and I had 294 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: like a few days off before I was supposed to 295 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: go to Boston actually, and I went to my doctor 296 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: and was like, I found this, and she's like, I'm 297 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: afraid I might know what this is. Sent me to 298 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: the radiologist the next day, knowing that I only had 299 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: so much time, and the radiologist was the was the 300 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: one who had helped with my children you know, did 301 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 2: the sonograms and the kids and stuff, so I knew her. 302 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: And she biopsy did, which was it was so dense 303 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: that she couldn't pull the thing out. She got to 304 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 2: literally put her foot up and out of me in bloods. 305 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: It's really a horrible experience. But she at that time, 306 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: because she was a friend, she said, look, I'm not 307 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: supposed to do this, but you know, I look at 308 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: these all day and I know what this is, and 309 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: I just want you to know that you're going to 310 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: be fine. And she goes, and this is the worst 311 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 2: that can happen to you, and she unbuttoned her blouse 312 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: and showed me her double mistectomy. I had no idea 313 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: that she had that. And she goes, this is the worst, 314 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: but you're not even there, you know, and you will 315 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: be fine. And just starting with that, just going okay, 316 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: whatever this journey is, I'm going to be fine. And 317 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: then I walked through it and it was. It was 318 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: indeed the most incredible thing that ever happened to me, 319 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 2: because I changed my life. I changed the stress. I 320 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 2: no longer let stress run my life that was going 321 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 2: to kill me. And I changed in my food habits, 322 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: my exercise just my state of mind. I used a 323 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: lot of cannabis that helped me. Here in California, we 324 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 2: have that. It was very medicinal and it really changed 325 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 2: me as a person, and I am now twenty one 326 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 2: years cancer free. 327 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: We got to take a quick break. When we come back. 328 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: The rest of my conversation with Melissa Ethridge, I want 329 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: to talk about the two thousand and five Grammy Awards. 330 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: You were performing with Josh Stone. You sang a tribute 331 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: to Janis Joplin and you were bald. What were the 332 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: emotions heading into that performance and why did you choose 333 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: to be bald instead of wearing a wig. 334 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: Well, it's funny. My surgeon who took the lumps out 335 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 2: and took I had three separate surgeries to get everything out, 336 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: get the margins clear. It was in the left nodes, 337 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 2: but they were able to get it before it got 338 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: all the way in there. And and this doctor said, 339 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: so you're gonna need chemo. You're gonna need lots of 340 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: chemo dose dents. Uh. And so you're gonna be bald, 341 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: So you're gonna need a wig because no one wants 342 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 2: to see a bald rock star. This is what she 343 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 2: said to me. And I was like, what this just did? 344 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: I was like scary and weird. And then I when 345 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: I knew I was going to be toward the end 346 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: of the Treatments, when I knew I was going to 347 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: be on the on the Grammys, I asked my friends. 348 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: I was like, what do you think should I be bald? 349 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: I also had a stylist get me kind of a 350 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: handkerchief as swayed. I had that I was maybe gonna 351 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 2: wear that, and everything on my head made me so 352 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: hot because I was getting hot flashes because they chemo 353 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 2: puts you into menopause and and I was like, I 354 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: just I can't. I'm just I'm just gonna go bald. 355 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 2: And I remember telling the lighting director and every said, 356 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 2: I said, I'm going to be bald. So I don't 357 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: know if that changes how you're going to do anything. 358 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: And I just didn't want anybody to make fun of me. 359 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: And right before I went on my guitar player, he said, 360 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 2: he goes, Melissa, you don't know what you're about to do, 361 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: do you? And I said, I don't know what you mean, 362 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 2: and he goes, well, just watch And I went out. 363 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: And I still get a little choked up because the 364 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 2: audience was so warm and loving and they just just 365 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: received it so well and it was one of the 366 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 2: greatest moments of my life. 367 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, it actually inspired a song by India I Ree 368 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: I Am not my Heart No, Yeah, I love pretty powerful. 369 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 370 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: You know, one of my best friends, unfortunately, was recently 371 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: diagnosed with multiple my law and she is going to 372 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: undergo a stem cell transplant in a couple months, and 373 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: she's going to lose her hair. And we were talking 374 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: the other day about if she wants to wear a 375 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: wig that looks like her, or wear a wig that's 376 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: like totally wacky and fun, or just go bald. And 377 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: she said the same thing about how she's already hot 378 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: all the time, and so she's a little worried about 379 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: this wedding. Do you have advice for her or for 380 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: others who are scared about that particular moment where everybody 381 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: will know that you're going through something. It will be 382 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: written all over your face and your hair. 383 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay. It's okay for everyone to know that. 384 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 2: It's okay for people to know that you're at a 385 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: point in your life where you're changing and you're working 386 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 2: on it, and you're working on health, and it's nothing 387 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 2: to be sad about. You are doing what you need 388 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: to do. And part of that weird shame about our 389 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: hair and what we look like is a part of 390 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: the problem of why we're sick. So time to let 391 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 2: that go. Time to know that we look gorgeous without 392 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 2: our hair or not. And I love it because sometimes 393 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: I see people bald women and I'm like, could be 394 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 2: a choice? Could be? You know, because I'm telling you, 395 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 2: losing my hair felt amazing. One. I love people rubbing 396 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 2: my head. That was really really I would get massages 397 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 2: and I'm just like, just rub my head. And I 398 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: would actually recommend just once in every woman's life to 399 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: shave her head, whether she's sick or not, but just 400 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 2: to shave her head because there's a lot of energy 401 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: and hair and you let it go and it's really 402 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: a great experience. And someday I'll go back to really 403 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,479 Speaker 2: short hair. I'm looking forward to that. 404 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: You've always written very personal song, songs about issues that 405 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: matter to you, songs about your life. Did your cancer 406 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: battle make it into your music? 407 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The first album I made after that was 408 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 2: called The Awakening because it's less about being sick, because 409 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 2: that was just the symptom of the change that I 410 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 2: needed to make in my own spirit, in my own life. 411 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: And it's more about waking up to oh this, I'm 412 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: in charge of me. I can't. I got to be 413 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 2: okay first before I help anybody else. And so many 414 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 2: women we take care of everybody else. We want everyone 415 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: to be happy and then we'll be happy. And that's 416 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 2: a You keep doing that and you will get sick 417 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 2: because that's not how we're made. We're made to make 418 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 2: sure we are good, we are well, and that's the 419 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: only way we can help anybody else. 420 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, what's been the hardest part for you over 421 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: the course of the decades that you've been in the 422 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: public eye and had a voice and an agency of 423 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: standing up for things even when society might not be ready, 424 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: or maybe when the loudest voices might be trying to 425 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: shout you down. What's been the toughest part for you? 426 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: Well, the toughest thing was probably just five years ago 427 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: when I lost my son to an opioid overdose, because 428 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: that's like, that just knocks you down and you don't 429 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 2: there's so much guilt and shame involved in that as 430 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 2: a parent that that can really really be hard, and 431 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 2: it was, and it was during the pandemic, so it 432 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 2: was a very very strange time. And what I've done 433 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: to help with that is to start the Etherage Foundation, 434 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: which is at the forefront now of providing funds for 435 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: research into plant medicine, into psychedelics and how they can 436 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 2: help and help with our emotional systems that lead to 437 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 2: pain relief and opioids within heroin and then fentanyl and death. 438 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 2: And so it's trying to change that. And there's a 439 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: lot of misinformation and a lot of people saying different things, 440 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 2: but I have a deep belief that as an alternative 441 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: to opioids, in helping with addiction, opioid use, disorder, all 442 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: these things, plat medicine can it really has a lot 443 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 2: of answers. 444 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was really skeptical about it, to be honest 445 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: with you, and I think because it was so often 446 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: associated with folks who were presenting it in this sort 447 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: of hippie dippy cult like way. And when I listen 448 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: to doctors talk about the appropriate usage of it and 449 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: how it sort of takes the topography of your brain 450 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: that you've created over the years to help hide away 451 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: trauma or go around something instead of through it and 452 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: dealing with it. How it levels that out and you're 453 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: forced to go through the things that your body has 454 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: tried to protect you from, and that's the only way 455 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: to actually integrate them into the rest of your memory 456 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: and learning and get through them, process them, and move 457 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: past them. As soon as that was explained to me, 458 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: it made such sense, and having read a lot of 459 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: books of late for the book that I wrote, I 460 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: started to be much less judgmental about the things I 461 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: didn't understand, particularly when they were presented to me in 462 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: sort of a logical and thoughtful way as opposed to like, 463 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: come to my tent in the woods and I'll show 464 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,959 Speaker 1: you the magic of ayahuasca. Right, But I love what 465 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: I love you said, because you know, Robin Roberts always says, 466 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: make your mess your message. It's easier said than done. 467 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: But if you can find a way to turn the 468 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: deepest of pain into something proactive where it feels like 469 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: you're making a change and helping at least something came 470 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: from it and you're not just just held down by 471 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: it hurts, and you are also choosing to make something 472 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: of it. And that's really powerful that you decided to 473 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: do that. I want to close our conversation with something fun. 474 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: So it's a speed round, a speed round for you 475 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: because there are too many questions and too little time. 476 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: What's the most nervous you've ever been for a performance? 477 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 2: Singing the national anthem at the Old series Game seven 478 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: two thousand one, two thousand and one. I believe giants angels? 479 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: Okay. Dream collaborator for an album or a live show 480 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: or a song. 481 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 2: Wow, I've got a lot of my dreams have come true. 482 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: I did sing with Bruce Springsteen. I've sung with a 483 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 2: lot of people. Dream collab that kind of always changes. 484 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: I mean, it was always Barbara Streis him for a 485 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: long time, but I know she's never gonna sing with me, 486 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 2: so that took you know, But now it'd be like, 487 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: it'd be fun to do something like with Chapel Roone. 488 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say that. I knew it. 489 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: I knew it. 490 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: She's fun. That would be too much people's heads would 491 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: explain exactly. 492 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to see you doing Pink Pony Club. I'd 493 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: like to see it. I was at a show last 494 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: night actually in the lead singer said, at this point, 495 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: I have lived out all of my dreams and dreams 496 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: I never had. At this point, I'm just stealing other 497 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: people's dreams, like things he had never imagined he could do. 498 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: He was doing so now he figured they must be 499 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: somebody else's that he stole. Who's the musician who's talent 500 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: you're most envious of? Alive or dead? 501 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: Peter Gabriel made some music in the eighties and the 502 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: nineties that I really wished I was that sort of 503 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 2: it was. It was when tech and music was meeting, 504 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 2: and he did it so well, and he wrote in 505 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: Your Eyes, which I think is the greatest song ever, 506 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 2: and I'm always jealous. I always go, God, I wish 507 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 2: I've written that song. 508 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like tech plus mysticism. Somehow he made it. 509 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: He made it mesh in a way that like felt right, Yeah, 510 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: what's the thing you've gotten to do in your career 511 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: that still feels like a pinch me. I can't believe 512 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:42,479 Speaker 1: that happened. 513 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 2: Moment well, singing with Bruce Springsteen, Yeah, yeah, that was 514 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 2: like bench main. I didn't want it to end. I 515 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: listened to it and I can still hear my heart 516 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: beat as I'm introducing him, you know, telling everyone, oh 517 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: my God, I get to sing with Springstein, that's probably one. 518 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. What about the goal or accomplishment you're working toward 519 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: now in life, career or otherwise. 520 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 2: Oh, now, it's about longevity. Now, it's about you know, 521 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 2: when you when you reach your goals, when you when 522 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: your dreams come true, you realize that it was never 523 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 2: the dream, it was never the thing and getting the 524 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: thing or doing the thing, it was the journey to 525 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: the thing is the most fun, absolutely, And I've done 526 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 2: enough that I know that for sure. So now I'm like, oh, 527 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 2: let me put these dreams out in front of me, 528 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: let me put this goal. But let me take my time, 529 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: you know, let me take my time going through the process, 530 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 2: because I know when I get there, I'm going to 531 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: want something else. It's gonna because it's about the dream. 532 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: It's about keep moving. So my goal is to be 533 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 2: in older older and older older age and still performing 534 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 2: and rocking and making music and writing about my life 535 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: and talking to you know, wonderful young women like you 536 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: and just doing that. That's my that's the goal. Now. 537 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: It's wild how many very successful people have the same 538 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: message about what it feels like on the other side 539 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: of success or the thing they always wanted, and it's 540 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: impossible to impart that to people who are just getting started. 541 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: You can never explain to them that the process of 542 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: getting there is the thing too, because they're so hungry 543 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: to prove to themselves and to others that they've made 544 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: it or they've done it. There's a great song Hosier 545 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: and Brandy Carlisle Damage Gets Done, that I think like 546 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: hits it perfectly. There's this line about the it's the 547 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: comforts that make us feel numb, and he writes about 548 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: we'd go out with no way to get home, we'd 549 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: sleep on someone's floor and wake up feeling like a millionaire. 550 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: And you do remember, looking back now at your twenties, 551 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: when you were broke, you weren't sure if you were 552 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: ever going to make it at anything. You and your 553 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: friends were sort of like, who are we what are 554 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: we going to do? We're going to pay rent? And 555 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: now when you're successful and rich later, you look back, 556 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: you're like, man, that was fun. 557 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: Fun at the wanting, the desire, the someday that yeah, 558 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 2: And so I try to keep that as much as 559 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 2: I can. 560 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: It's hard in the moment when you're like, nobody, I 561 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: really do need to pay rent, but it is. You 562 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: can romanticize it later when it all works out. 563 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 564 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: All right, last question for you, since this is living beyond, 565 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: if you look at Melissa Ethriche beyond breast cancer, you'll find. 566 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 2: What, Oh, a woman having a great time in this 567 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 2: life right now, just loving every moment, every moment. Yeah, 568 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you so much, Thank you, Sarah anytime. 569 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports 570 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Good 571 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 572 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our 573 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers 574 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rutterer. 575 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and 576 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm 577 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: your host Sarah Spain