WEBVTT - Death & Deceit in Alliance | 7. The Psychic 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.080 Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.080 This man was in a house with a dead body 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.480 and was either cleaning up for the killer or was 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:10.040 the killer. 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:12.879 And a guy came out with a trash bag. That's 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:13.680 all I see. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:18.279 You just glance why that report wasn't provided to the defense, Like, 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:19.160 what's up with that? 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:20.840 Did you find somebody you recognized? 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:23.880 I did point out somebody. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:24.120 Hail says. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.600 Detectives told him later the picture he pointed out was 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:29.880 that of an Alliance police officer. 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.519 That is the one key part of this case that 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.320 just never sat right with me. Like the fact that 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.959 it was never turned over to the defense is shocking. 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.000 This is death and Deceit in Alliance, a real time 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.760 investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane. 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:56.360 I'm Maggie Freeling. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.759 About a month after the murder of Yvonne Lane, Alliance 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.160 police were stuck. They said that the persons of interest 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.280 had lawyered up. It seems like they're talking about David. 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.920 So the police were frustrated and did something some might 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:19.520 think is controversial. 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:24.240 One of the things that we became aware at the 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.479 definition that we did at the police's Tart and beck 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.759 In January was a. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:31.839 Tune Chames that turned out. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:37.160 To being a discussion between you and Altur Maclow and 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.720 then an unknown female who believed to be a psych 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.959 Do do you recall top of the psychic on the fifth? 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.880 Yes, yeah, a psychic. The detectives turned to a psychic 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:54.120 in their stalled investigation. This is Detective Samson in a 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.160 two thousand and eight deposition. David's attorney is questioning him 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.880 about two audio tapes that were discovered nearly ten years 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:07.440 after the murder and had previously not been handed over 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.399 to David's defense. The two tapes are of detective Samson 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:16.520 and Mucklow speaking to a supposed psychic. They recorded themselves 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.240 for investigation purposes. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.160 Why did you guys decided to take a step. 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:26.120 To Bill muchel, I wanted to go up, and I 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.840 said I'd go with him. Was to his idea, Yes, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:30.160 and he felt like. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.960 I think he was being pressured from his wife. Say 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:36.000 the wife was into that? 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.320 No exactly, Yeah, what do you mean when you say 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.400 his life at the end of that she was into 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:46.720 the psychic reading this and that, and that's where he 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.240 was getting pressured from. And you should go see it. 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.520 Psychic so licence next quite two years. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.040 I have identally, I don't know. 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.760 Mike, so Bill said he was wanted to go, or 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.959 may have on call or something, and I'll. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:02.200 Go with you. 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.639 About a month after Evon's murder, Detective Samson and Mucklow 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.760 went to Cleveland to the psychic. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:21.600 Yeah, be a mad it makes for death by okay. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.639 You have no idea. I'm a believer. I know the 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:26.840 full moon. I want to do it, but. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.800 First I just want to apologize for the poor audio quality. 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.640 I had to copy twenty two year old cassette tapes 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.760 and they didn't hold up well. It also sounds like 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.360 there's birds in the psychic's house. Besides all that, the 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.200 session sounds pretty much like you'd expect, at least at 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:51.120 the beginning. There's talk about the moon and astrological symbols 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.080 what some might call woo woo stuff, But the psychic 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.880 session does not continue like that at all. In fact, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.080 within a few minutes it seems like the psychic is 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.960 a detective and she's asking all the right questions. 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.880 So we don't think she didn't follow me, And she didn't. 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.200 She didn't, she just h well, well, form to. 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.039 Which the psychic follows up later with a vision. Apparently 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.800 in her mind, she's picturing Yvonne giving someone money. It 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:20.600 confuses her. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:21.400 I think. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.440 The psychic is asking why would Yvonne be giving a 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.520 guy money. She didn't have any money, and that leads 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.640 to something shocking from Detective Mucklow. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.080 Got a tip maclaming the other day. She's supposed to 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.720 be hanging hanging a rut well hanging Marama, the guy 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.880 by the name of Tommy. But we're supposedly selling drugs, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:52.160 and supposedly Tommy was giving was supplying her with some 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.800 kind of drug. We didn't find any like cocaine or 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.160 crack cocaine in the house, but we didn't find a 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:56.919 little bit of marijuana. 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.920 So Mucklow says she's hanging around a drug deal Tommy. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.919 I'm censoring Tommy's last name, like a lot of the 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.360 people you'll hear in this show. I'm not trying to 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.440 imply that any of these people are the killer of Yvonne, 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.360 so to protect them, I'm leaving their full names out. 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.960 But I do think it's fair to say they at 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:19.520 least should have been investigated anyway. Tommy was never interviewed 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.479 that we know of. There's no record of him anywhere 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.560 in the files, and he's mentioned dozens of times in 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.240 this recording with the psychic as someone Yvonne was interacting 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.599 with to get drugs, And where did Tommy get his drugs? 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:39.040 Turns out it's from a cop. Here's mucklow in his deposition. 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:44.160 Fully, Dave mclahoney was a officer on the police department, 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.880 was a sergeant, made lieutenant and then he resigned here 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.360 about six months ago. 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:54.440 He must have he must have said that, you know, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.839 he must have gave us a verbal tip that Tommy 0:05:58.240 --> 0:05:59.839 was providing her with drugs. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.000 This tip coming from a fellow officer should have made 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:08.039 it pretty credible to them, and at least they should 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.760 have followed up on it. They even say he's kind 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.760 of like a psycho and had an extensive violent record 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:21.480 including assault, menacing, and domestic violence, so why didn't they 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.560 look into him? And this line of questioning by the 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:30.000 psychic leads to even more shocking information and names that 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.360 were never looked into that we know of. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:37.520 Love Marijana. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.800 You know, he talked to me other night and now 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.000 I just asked him and he said he got real nervous, 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.760 and you know, I don't know that cha correct thing. 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:45.240 You brought that up? 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:46.240 And he steps through the stroke. 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.240 He's amusing myself in shadow or cool. I mean, you 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:50.960 know if he comes and talking. When I brought up 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.400 on von Lansain, I don't know nothing about it. 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:53.800 I have not. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.200 He was just like you know, pacing and trolling around 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:02.520 the circle. I hard to say. I I really don't 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.680 know the kid that well. He's a barfly, hang out 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.919 in all of our local bars. He's he's only twenty. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:14.960 Four five, yeah, I and gentlemen that in that on 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:21.080 the bar over there that we've got, uh another position, Mike, Kelly, 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.800 Frank Kellen can hang out and high. We got some 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.640 boris you used to dance at Kelly's. 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.280 Thank you, Yes, thank you. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:30.840 Psychic. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.640 The tape is hard to understand, but what we can 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.240 glean is that now the suspect pool is even larger. 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.240 Yvonne was hanging out with some shady characters and she 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:46.120 was allegedly an exotic dancer. When exactly she was is 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.280 unknown because again there's no record of this in the 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.320 police investigated file. So the psychic is suspicious and she 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:59.080 starts pushing harder. She didn't watch ye Of course, the 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.240 psychic seems little incensed at the police's blockheadedness. 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:09.120 You're telling me there's only been for the money back. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:15.880 She was very promiscuous though, According. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.840 To this conversation with the psychic, Yvonne may be an 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.240 exotic dnswer and if the psychic suspicions are right, maybe 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.720 selling sex for money too. This could certainly widen the 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.760 pool of suspects. Yet there's no record of any investigation 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.960 into that part of her life, even though the police 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.319 say they're aware of it. No record, not once in 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:41.120 any documents. And it gets weirder. So the question is, 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:46.080 if true, who was soliciting Yvonne for sex? Well, the 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.000 psychic finds that out too. 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.080 And she may not be watching right right. 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:57.480 Yes, yeah, she was possibly seeing a police author. 0:08:58.840 --> 0:08:59.400 I believe that. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:06.600 And supposedly the youngest child, maybe this policeman's son, trente 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.839 ye well annoy. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:22.240 Okay, dating a married guy with kids. Multiple sources have 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.040 said a cop maybe the father of Yvonne's youngest child, Trenton, 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.240 a married cop whose name we're going to beep because 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:31.880 no charges were ever filed. 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:38.120 Supposedly he took Benny over there through this policeman to 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.520 watch and stay there for two weeks. 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.719 And the detectives say they confronted the officer and he 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:43.599 wasn't me. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.800 It wasn't me. I don't know, I don't know anything 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:47.080 about it. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.760 I've ever, I don't know, and I didn't didn't have that, 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:52.000 you know. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.960 And then they bring up another cop. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:10:00.720 He's kind of a flirt, he likes trying to a conquest. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.600 Yes, a great question. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:07.000 The psychic asks, how did she get in with so 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:08.440 many cops? 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:10.320 How about the fun? 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.960 Well, supposedly when we we've asked him about it and 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.880 denied it at first, but then he said, yeah, we 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:18.520 I talked to her and she said she didn't want 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:19.719 to see me because. 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.760 And then the detectives bring up yet another officer. They 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.840 bring up Quentin Artists, who, if you remember, was the 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.640 cop harassing Yvonne. According to her mother. The cops told 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.360 the psychic that Artists tried to solicit Yvonne for sex. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.920 I find out more about what he knew. I don't 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:40.959 think he would go have her killed. But they think 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.920 he knows more about her background than you guys think. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.200 I think that you think thinks are small potato than 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.280 it's not bigger predatus than what you're thinking. 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.040 This girl really is get that. So they felt. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:56.280 Agree with you. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:03.120 Bigger potatoes. I just thinking, you guys need that take 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.959 up your grief. That yeah, an athlog with the past. 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.600 So yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. She's had 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.760 a lot to do with the cops. But it's in 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.640 contradiction to the Yvonne. Her family knows. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.559 What the story we're getting from both sides of her family. 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:19.880 She didn't go anywhere. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:20.840 She did at home like students. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.959 But the psychic says, they're lying to you the most. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.960 And she must sham. But she likes somebody's house. She 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.640 I don't like a kid, joli. It was always fast right. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:36.880 They all came to the door and made out there 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:37.880 the many they backed to the bar. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:39.240 She didn't know it. 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.960 Plead for us, what are you telling me? Everytime that 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.120 comes to my door? Doesn't balance? 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:51.360 That was tough to hear in parts, but the gist 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.000 is that the psychic is incredulous that Yvonne had so 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:59.719 much contact with multiple Alliance Police officers when they were 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:04.920 all duty. She said, something doesn't sound right here. She said, 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.680 you guys need a new police force, and she did 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:09.760 not let it go. 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.880 I want to know why she needs so many cans? 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:15.960 Why did she miss? 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.760 I want to know, what's the connection that so many 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.520 facts are in your life? Why would guys that are 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.319 married with kids be picking her up? What's the connection? 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.719 And listen a whole proof to the plaza? Why did 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.360 she have so many cups? I want to know why. 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.120 I'm curious? Why is you know so many caps? You 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:39.800 never asked that that I wondered about it? Why you 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:40.840 just to see nothing? 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:43.240 Is there? 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:48.760 Somewhere's going at because of what others? 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.560 Yeah, but you running around in circles when they question 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.840 knew why here is a girl who said nothing knows 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:56.240 so many? 0:12:56.400 --> 0:13:04.120 Please? Why would she do that? Why? Because she screwed 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.719 him up? But why did she scrom her? Were introduced 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:13.920 her childis Lisa? Now would be he didn't ever question that? 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:15.959 Why would a girl knows so many? Please me? 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:19.080 Now we will? 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:28.760 Of course we know they didn't. At this point, I 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.720 was so overwhelmed with what I was hearing from detectives 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.679 Mucklow and Sampson about their own colleagues, that I decided 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:37.600 to call an expert, you know, in. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:38.800 Terms of the police force. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:43.280 My god, I had more than eight or nine names 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.480 of officers who were potential sexual partners. 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.080 If you recognize this voice, it's Dwayne Pullman, local TV 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:55.080 anchor and investigative reporter you've heard earlier. Dwayne investigated David's 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:59.000 case for years, and Dwayne also found that what Mucklow 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.439 and Samson were telling the psychic about officers from Alliance 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.079 being involved with Yvonne was pretty widely known. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:11.720 Some police officers were involved with her, either sexually or 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.840 in the drug thing, or both. It's probable based on 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:22.720 the you know the fact that at that time, it's 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:27.000 not just speculation the police were. The officers were involved 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.280 in the farious activity and criminal activity. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.200 Now, remember earlier in the tapes, Mucklow and Samson told 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.880 the psychic that they found marijuana in Yvonne's house. Well, 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:41.080 there's no record of any marijuana in evidence from Yvonn's home, 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:46.320 so either that wasn't true or someone pocketed the marijuana. 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.160 If you remember from last episode, the Alliance police were 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.440 stealing drugs and money from the evidence room, So stealing 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.160 drugs from someone's home doesn't seem like a stretch. But 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.520 why would they do that, Well, maybe to sell, or 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.840 maybe it was to cover up some kind of connection 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:09.280 between the Alliance police and drug dealers, a connection that 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.880 went through yvont If you believe the police were involved, 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:17.800 well maybe they didn't actually kill yvon but they covered 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.360 it up to save their own asses so there'd be 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.360 no trail that led to them. And Dwayne also thinks 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:25.240 this is possible. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:31.200 My suspicion was always that there were so many. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:39.440 Illegal and troubling connections between police and the criminal element 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.800 that it almost felt like, let's clean it up kind 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.880 of thing, no matter who did it, let's clean this 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:47.800 up so none of us get drawn in. 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.320 He means clean up the scene of the crime, and 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.480 this makes total sense to me. The crime scene photos 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.520 show bleach and gloves on the counter, like someone was 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.240 cleaning up. And maybe the cover up wasn't for the drugs. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.320 Maybe it was to cover up that half of the 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.160 force was sleeping with her. In fact, Mucklow and Samson 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.480 actually speculate about this themselves. They think that maybe this 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.280 drug dealer is looking to have something on the cops 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:17.720 through Yvonne. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.560 Because this drug guy was putting her up to it, 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.560 so if he gets caught, he can block me out 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.800 of the cops for protection. 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.800 Came on the heels of corruption, and my only thought is. 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:38.720 That, given what we know about Yvonne is you know, 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.040 I'm pretty sure people didn't want a lot of that 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:43.120 stuff flying out. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.320 Well, yeah, particularly the officers. 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.280 Yeah right, maybe that's why they didn't look into leads 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.840 that led them to drug dealers. The detectives knew any 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.520 investigation into that side of her life, drugs or sex work, 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:00.440 could lead back to them. 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:01.360 Yeah. 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:08.920 I found Alliance to be a really difficult and troubling 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.600 place to try to get to truth on any subject. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:18.600 I can't get to facts on anything, and that actually 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.560 it was a pointer to me over the years became 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.200 a really clear thing. Is well, of course I can't 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:31.000 because the police controlled the narrative and they were dealing 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:41.000 with predominantly disadvantaged and impoverished individuals. So you know, that 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.840 kind of thing was just a swirl of smeary mess. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:56.640 The case is so troubling because any number of people 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.879 could have been a suspect in this case. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.119 Everyone in this town seems to have some kind of 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:08.720 secret or interest in this victim, whether it be drugs, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:13.840 sex or both. I mean, look, who's the suspect? Everybody? 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.000 So why'd you land on these two. 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.880 That's the question, why land on David and Joe. 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:26.040 The avenues or possibilities are endless on who it could 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:26.480 have been. 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.680 What if it's because David was the furthest away from 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.400 the drug and sex scene, no investigation into him would 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.680 lead back to the police in any way. 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.399 Can I say one percent that David Thorne is innocent? No, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:48.280 it's because I don't have enough information to absolutely say 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.520 one thing or the other. But what I do know 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:56.080 is with absolute one hundred percent guarantee, he did not 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:04.400 get any consideration or fair treatment by the system, and 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:10.200 quite frankly, was identified, early, focused on, and then rare 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:11.720 roaded into prison. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:12.720 That's what I know. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.520 Eric remember is Yvonne's starcross lover, bad boy she couldn't 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.440 get away from. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.680 He's supposedly the father of three of her children. 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:31.000 Duayane interviewed him and left with a disturbing impression. 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:33.600 He was a hot mess. 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:40.720 Yeah, anger and rage, disjointed. 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:48.720 He was he literally very people scared me. He scared me. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.480 Detectives Mucklow and Samson also brought up Jeremy. Jeremy is 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.919 the boyfriend of Eric's mother, Linda. That's a little complicated, 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.280 but here's the important thing to remember. Linda had taken 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.400 in Vinnie. He was Yvonne's special needs child and the 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.000 son of Eric. Just two weeks before the murder, Yvonne 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.600 took Vinnie back. Vinnie was the four year old who 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.400 was in the house dressed and may have seen the murderer. 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.119 The theory is that Jeremy may have killed Yvonne to 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.000 get Vinnie back for Linda. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:25.320 Oh, we don't have a alibi for him, visions. Didn't 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.680 you talk to him? No, I'm talking about that non spas. Yeah, 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.280 well we did, and like did he say, uh, he's 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.200 covered and he gave his fingerprints. He said he'd take 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:35.879 a polygraph. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.760 But where is this investigation they did? 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.439 And to Jeremy, I haven't seen a record of it, 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.280 and why did they just drop him if he doesn't 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:46.240 have an alibi? 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:48.680 And then the psychic. 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:52.480 Describes her vision the person she says killed Yvonne. She 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.000 says he's about five foot eight, dark features, and said 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.159 Yvonne knew him very well. 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:00.880 I want to transject too, I would be a motorcy 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:05.879 coffee way and somebody who likes to crouch too. Well, 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.800 real big just crossing them. I do know the killer 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.520 has to have the most and he's somebody who's x M. 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.800 You're a marine guy that killed up the killer is 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:18.000 X army or marine. 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.240 Jeremy kind of looks starfare mustache. 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.400 Well there adolity. 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:32.400 Eight WHOA I described him to A D didn't. 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:32.399 I described the guy to A he didn't? 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.639 I I think back in John brought up took twenty. 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.520 Where was Jeremy born? He was? He was not in 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.679 the Vietnam War, but he was the Vietnam during the 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:48.800 clean up. Okay, yeah, forty I suld like to see 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.120 air Cameron's forty four. 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.600 So he's exactly the age that I just drove for 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:54.280 the killer. 0:21:54.840 --> 0:22:01.680 Hello, Jeremy is actually five nine, does have a mustache 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.560 and dark hair, dark eyes. And when I got his 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.600 arrest record, it also listed something that shook even me 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:13.119 somewhat skeptical of the abilities of psychics. He has a 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:17.119 cross tattoo on his arm. But whether you're a believer 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.720 or not, every one of these people should have been 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:24.760 looked into, and I have no record of it ever happening, 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:29.680 especially because remember Vinny, the four year old witness even 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.080 mentioned a Jeremy as the killer. This is Dwayne Pullman again, 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:35.680 So you know. 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.880 From that standpoint, I was just stunned by a system 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:44.800 that didn't evaluate even on motive, the potential, you know, 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.480 endless motives of others that could have been a play. 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.600 In his deposition, Detective Sampson was asked about all of 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:54.600 these people mentioned in the psychic tapes. 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.600 What I'm trying to find out is what when when 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:04.520 other names are brought up by whether they're coming in 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.640 and tips to EUI or whether you're getting together in 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:11.200 its situation like this and kind of joint me coming 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:11.840 up with thoughts. 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:12.679 I'm like, who could be? 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:16.040 You know, where can we look for some information? What 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:17.800 I'm trying to find out is all these names that 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:19.520 come up from here, where they look into or not. 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:28.040 I don't know the problem with the case and the 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.000 stuff that has I'm filled with. 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.880 Every time I talk about this case, I get angst 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:36.199 every time. 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:38.880 And I'm a pretty calm guy. 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.800 I've been doing journalism for thirty five years at a 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:45.680 pretty high level, and I've covered some crazy stuff. 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.280 And I felt. 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:52.600 For the first time in my life on this case 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:59.040 inadequate on getting to the truth. I've never felt that before. Yeah, 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:04.080 and I totally forgive me. I'm not trying to have a. 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:06.240 Session. 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.520 But you know that is really really difficult because I 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:12.520