1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 2: This man was in a house with a dead body 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: and was either cleaning up for the killer or was 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 2: the killer. 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 3: And a guy came out with a trash bag. That's 6 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 3: all I see. 7 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 2: You just glance why that report wasn't provided to the defense, Like, 8 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: what's up with that? 9 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 3: Did you find somebody you recognized? 10 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 4: I did point out somebody. 11 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 5: Hail says. 12 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 6: Detectives told him later the picture he pointed out was 13 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 6: that of an Alliance police officer. 14 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: That is the one key part of this case that 15 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: just never sat right with me. Like the fact that 16 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 2: it was never turned over to the defense is shocking. 17 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 7: This is death and Deceit in Alliance, a real time 18 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 7: investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane. 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm Maggie Freeling. 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 7: About a month after the murder of Yvonne Lane, Alliance 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 7: police were stuck. They said that the persons of interest 22 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 7: had lawyered up. It seems like they're talking about David. 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 7: So the police were frustrated and did something some might 24 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 7: think is controversial. 25 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 8: One of the things that we became aware at the 26 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 8: definition that we did at the police's Tart and beck 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 8: In January was a. 28 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 9: Tune Chames that turned out. 29 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 8: To being a discussion between you and Altur Maclow and 30 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 8: then an unknown female who believed to be a psych 31 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 8: Do do you recall top of the psychic on the fifth? 32 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, a psychic. The detectives turned to a psychic 33 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 7: in their stalled investigation. This is Detective Samson in a 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 7: two thousand and eight deposition. David's attorney is questioning him 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 7: about two audio tapes that were discovered nearly ten years 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 7: after the murder and had previously not been handed over 37 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 7: to David's defense. The two tapes are of detective Samson 38 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 7: and Mucklow speaking to a supposed psychic. They recorded themselves 39 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 7: for investigation purposes. 40 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 9: Why did you guys decided to take a step. 41 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 4: To Bill muchel, I wanted to go up, and I 42 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 4: said I'd go with him. Was to his idea, Yes, 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 4: and he felt like. 44 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 3: I think he was being pressured from his wife. Say 45 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 3: the wife was into that? 46 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 4: No exactly, Yeah, what do you mean when you say 47 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 4: his life at the end of that she was into 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 4: the psychic reading this and that, and that's where he 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 4: was getting pressured from. And you should go see it. 50 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 4: Psychic so licence next quite two years. 51 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: I have identally, I don't know. 52 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 4: Mike, so Bill said he was wanted to go, or 53 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 4: may have on call or something, and I'll. 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 3: Go with you. 55 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 7: About a month after Evon's murder, Detective Samson and Mucklow 56 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 7: went to Cleveland to the psychic. 57 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 10: Yeah, be a mad it makes for death by okay. 58 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 3: You have no idea. I'm a believer. I know the 59 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 3: full moon. I want to do it, but. 60 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 7: First I just want to apologize for the poor audio quality. 61 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 7: I had to copy twenty two year old cassette tapes 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 7: and they didn't hold up well. It also sounds like 63 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 7: there's birds in the psychic's house. Besides all that, the 64 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 7: session sounds pretty much like you'd expect, at least at 65 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 7: the beginning. There's talk about the moon and astrological symbols 66 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 7: what some might call woo woo stuff, But the psychic 67 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 7: session does not continue like that at all. In fact, 68 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 7: within a few minutes it seems like the psychic is 69 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 7: a detective and she's asking all the right questions. 70 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 5: So we don't think she didn't follow me, And she didn't. 71 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 5: She didn't, she just h well, well, form to. 72 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 7: Which the psychic follows up later with a vision. Apparently 73 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 7: in her mind, she's picturing Yvonne giving someone money. It 74 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 7: confuses her. 75 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 9: I think. 76 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 7: The psychic is asking why would Yvonne be giving a 77 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 7: guy money. She didn't have any money, and that leads 78 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 7: to something shocking from Detective Mucklow. 79 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 5: Got a tip maclaming the other day. She's supposed to 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 5: be hanging hanging a rut well hanging Marama, the guy 81 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 5: by the name of Tommy. But we're supposedly selling drugs, 82 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 5: and supposedly Tommy was giving was supplying her with some 83 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 5: kind of drug. We didn't find any like cocaine or 84 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 5: crack cocaine in the house, but we didn't find a 85 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 5: little bit of marijuana. 86 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 7: So Mucklow says she's hanging around a drug deal Tommy. 87 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 7: I'm censoring Tommy's last name, like a lot of the 88 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 7: people you'll hear in this show. I'm not trying to 89 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 7: imply that any of these people are the killer of Yvonne, 90 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 7: so to protect them, I'm leaving their full names out. 91 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 7: But I do think it's fair to say they at 92 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 7: least should have been investigated anyway. Tommy was never interviewed 93 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 7: that we know of. There's no record of him anywhere 94 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 7: in the files, and he's mentioned dozens of times in 95 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 7: this recording with the psychic as someone Yvonne was interacting 96 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 7: with to get drugs, And where did Tommy get his drugs? 97 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: Turns out it's from a cop. Here's mucklow in his deposition. 98 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 11: Fully, Dave mclahoney was a officer on the police department, 99 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 11: was a sergeant, made lieutenant and then he resigned here 100 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 11: about six months ago. 101 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 5: He must have he must have said that, you know, 102 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 5: he must have gave us a verbal tip that Tommy 103 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 5: was providing her with drugs. 104 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 7: This tip coming from a fellow officer should have made 105 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 7: it pretty credible to them, and at least they should 106 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 7: have followed up on it. They even say he's kind 107 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 7: of like a psycho and had an extensive violent record 108 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 7: including assault, menacing, and domestic violence, so why didn't they 109 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 7: look into him? And this line of questioning by the 110 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 7: psychic leads to even more shocking information and names that 111 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 7: were never looked into that we know of. 112 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: Love Marijana. 113 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 5: You know, he talked to me other night and now 114 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 5: I just asked him and he said he got real nervous, 115 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 5: and you know, I don't know that cha correct thing. 116 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: You brought that up? 117 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 9: And he steps through the stroke. 118 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 5: He's amusing myself in shadow or cool. I mean, you 119 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 5: know if he comes and talking. When I brought up 120 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 5: on von Lansain, I don't know nothing about it. 121 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 12: I have not. 122 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 5: He was just like you know, pacing and trolling around 123 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 5: the circle. I hard to say. I I really don't 124 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 5: know the kid that well. He's a barfly, hang out 125 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 5: in all of our local bars. He's he's only twenty. 126 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 10: Four five, yeah, I and gentlemen that in that on 127 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 10: the bar over there that we've got, uh another position, Mike, Kelly, 128 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 10: Frank Kellen can hang out and high. We got some 129 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 10: boris you used to dance at Kelly's. 130 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, Yes, thank you. 131 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 9: Psychic. 132 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 7: The tape is hard to understand, but what we can 133 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 7: glean is that now the suspect pool is even larger. 134 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 7: Yvonne was hanging out with some shady characters and she 135 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 7: was allegedly an exotic dancer. When exactly she was is 136 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 7: unknown because again there's no record of this in the 137 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 7: police investigated file. So the psychic is suspicious and she 138 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 7: starts pushing harder. She didn't watch ye Of course, the 139 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 7: psychic seems little incensed at the police's blockheadedness. 140 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 9: You're telling me there's only been for the money back. 141 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 5: She was very promiscuous though, According. 142 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 7: To this conversation with the psychic, Yvonne may be an 143 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 7: exotic dnswer and if the psychic suspicions are right, maybe 144 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 7: selling sex for money too. This could certainly widen the 145 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 7: pool of suspects. Yet there's no record of any investigation 146 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 7: into that part of her life, even though the police 147 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 7: say they're aware of it. No record, not once in 148 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 7: any documents. And it gets weirder. So the question is, 149 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 7: if true, who was soliciting Yvonne for sex? Well, the 150 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 7: psychic finds that out too. 151 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 9: And she may not be watching right right. 152 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, she was possibly seeing a police author. 153 00:08:58,840 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 9: I believe that. 154 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 5: And supposedly the youngest child, maybe this policeman's son, trente 155 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 5: ye well annoy. 156 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 7: Okay, dating a married guy with kids. Multiple sources have 157 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 7: said a cop maybe the father of Yvonne's youngest child, Trenton, 158 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 7: a married cop whose name we're going to beep because 159 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 7: no charges were ever filed. 160 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 5: Supposedly he took Benny over there through this policeman to 161 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 5: watch and stay there for two weeks. 162 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 7: And the detectives say they confronted the officer and he 163 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 7: wasn't me. 164 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 9: It wasn't me. I don't know, I don't know anything 165 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 9: about it. 166 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 5: I've ever, I don't know, and I didn't didn't have that, 167 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 5: you know. 168 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: And then they bring up another cop. 169 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 5: He's kind of a flirt, he likes trying to a conquest. 170 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: Yes, a great question. 171 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 7: The psychic asks, how did she get in with so 172 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 7: many cops? 173 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 9: How about the fun? 174 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 5: Well, supposedly when we we've asked him about it and 175 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 5: denied it at first, but then he said, yeah, we 176 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 5: I talked to her and she said she didn't want 177 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 5: to see me because. 178 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 7: And then the detectives bring up yet another officer. They 179 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 7: bring up Quentin Artists, who, if you remember, was the 180 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 7: cop harassing Yvonne. According to her mother. The cops told 181 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 7: the psychic that Artists tried to solicit Yvonne for sex. 182 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 10: I find out more about what he knew. I don't 183 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 10: think he would go have her killed. But they think 184 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 10: he knows more about her background than you guys think. 185 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 10: I think that you think thinks are small potato than 186 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 10: it's not bigger predatus than what you're thinking. 187 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 9: This girl really is get that. So they felt. 188 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 3: Agree with you. 189 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 10: Bigger potatoes. I just thinking, you guys need that take 190 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 10: up your grief. That yeah, an athlog with the past. 191 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 7: So yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. She's had 192 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 7: a lot to do with the cops. But it's in 193 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 7: contradiction to the Yvonne. Her family knows. 194 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 9: What the story we're getting from both sides of her family. 195 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 3: She didn't go anywhere. 196 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 5: She did at home like students. 197 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: But the psychic says, they're lying to you the most. 198 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 13: And she must sham. But she likes somebody's house. She 199 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 13: I don't like a kid, joli. It was always fast right. 200 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 13: They all came to the door and made out there 201 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 13: the many they backed to the bar. 202 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 9: She didn't know it. 203 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 10: Plead for us, what are you telling me? Everytime that 204 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 10: comes to my door? Doesn't balance? 205 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 7: That was tough to hear in parts, but the gist 206 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 7: is that the psychic is incredulous that Yvonne had so 207 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 7: much contact with multiple Alliance Police officers when they were 208 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 7: all duty. She said, something doesn't sound right here. She said, 209 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 7: you guys need a new police force, and she did 210 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 7: not let it go. 211 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 10: I want to know why she needs so many cans? 212 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 9: Why did she miss? 213 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 10: I want to know, what's the connection that so many 214 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 10: facts are in your life? Why would guys that are 215 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 10: married with kids be picking her up? What's the connection? 216 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 10: And listen a whole proof to the plaza? Why did 217 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 10: she have so many cups? I want to know why. 218 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 10: I'm curious? Why is you know so many caps? You 219 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 10: never asked that that I wondered about it? Why you 220 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 10: just to see nothing? 221 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: Is there? 222 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 9: Somewhere's going at because of what others? 223 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 10: Yeah, but you running around in circles when they question 224 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 10: knew why here is a girl who said nothing knows 225 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 10: so many? 226 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 9: Please? Why would she do that? Why? Because she screwed 227 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 9: him up? But why did she scrom her? Were introduced 228 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 9: her childis Lisa? Now would be he didn't ever question that? 229 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 9: Why would a girl knows so many? Please me? 230 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 3: Now we will? 231 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 7: Of course we know they didn't. At this point, I 232 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 7: was so overwhelmed with what I was hearing from detectives 233 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 7: Mucklow and Sampson about their own colleagues, that I decided 234 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 7: to call an expert, you know, in. 235 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 3: Terms of the police force. 236 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 6: My god, I had more than eight or nine names 237 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 6: of officers who were potential sexual partners. 238 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 7: If you recognize this voice, it's Dwayne Pullman, local TV 239 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 7: anchor and investigative reporter you've heard earlier. Dwayne investigated David's 240 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 7: case for years, and Dwayne also found that what Mucklow 241 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 7: and Samson were telling the psychic about officers from Alliance 242 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 7: being involved with Yvonne was pretty widely known. 243 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 6: Some police officers were involved with her, either sexually or 244 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 6: in the drug thing, or both. It's probable based on 245 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 6: the you know the fact that at that time, it's 246 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 6: not just speculation the police were. The officers were involved 247 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 6: in the farious activity and criminal activity. 248 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 7: Now, remember earlier in the tapes, Mucklow and Samson told 249 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 7: the psychic that they found marijuana in Yvonne's house. Well, 250 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 7: there's no record of any marijuana in evidence from Yvonn's home, 251 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 7: so either that wasn't true or someone pocketed the marijuana. 252 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 7: If you remember from last episode, the Alliance police were 253 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 7: stealing drugs and money from the evidence room, So stealing 254 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 7: drugs from someone's home doesn't seem like a stretch. But 255 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 7: why would they do that, Well, maybe to sell, or 256 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 7: maybe it was to cover up some kind of connection 257 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 7: between the Alliance police and drug dealers, a connection that 258 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 7: went through yvont If you believe the police were involved, 259 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 7: well maybe they didn't actually kill yvon but they covered 260 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 7: it up to save their own asses so there'd be 261 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 7: no trail that led to them. And Dwayne also thinks 262 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 7: this is possible. 263 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 3: My suspicion was always that there were so many. 264 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 6: Illegal and troubling connections between police and the criminal element 265 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 6: that it almost felt like, let's clean it up kind 266 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 6: of thing, no matter who did it, let's clean this 267 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 6: up so none of us get drawn in. 268 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: He means clean up the scene of the crime, and 269 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: this makes total sense to me. The crime scene photos 270 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: show bleach and gloves on the counter, like someone was 271 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: cleaning up. And maybe the cover up wasn't for the drugs. 272 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: Maybe it was to cover up that half of the 273 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: force was sleeping with her. In fact, Mucklow and Samson 274 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: actually speculate about this themselves. They think that maybe this 275 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: drug dealer is looking to have something on the cops 276 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: through Yvonne. 277 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 5: Because this drug guy was putting her up to it, 278 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 5: so if he gets caught, he can block me out 279 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 5: of the cops for protection. 280 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 3: Came on the heels of corruption, and my only thought is. 281 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 6: That, given what we know about Yvonne is you know, 282 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure people didn't want a lot of that 283 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 6: stuff flying out. 284 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, particularly the officers. 285 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 7: Yeah right, maybe that's why they didn't look into leads 286 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 7: that led them to drug dealers. The detectives knew any 287 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 7: investigation into that side of her life, drugs or sex work, 288 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 7: could lead back to them. 289 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 290 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 6: I found Alliance to be a really difficult and troubling 291 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 6: place to try to get to truth on any subject. 292 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 14: I can't get to facts on anything, and that actually 293 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 14: it was a pointer to me over the years became 294 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 14: a really clear thing. Is well, of course I can't 295 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 14: because the police controlled the narrative and they were dealing 296 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 14: with predominantly disadvantaged and impoverished individuals. So you know, that 297 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 14: kind of thing was just a swirl of smeary mess. 298 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 14: The case is so troubling because any number of people 299 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 14: could have been a suspect in this case. 300 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 6: Everyone in this town seems to have some kind of 301 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 6: secret or interest in this victim, whether it be drugs, 302 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 6: sex or both. I mean, look, who's the suspect? Everybody? 303 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 6: So why'd you land on these two. 304 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: That's the question, why land on David and Joe. 305 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: The avenues or possibilities are endless on who it could 306 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 3: have been. 307 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 7: What if it's because David was the furthest away from 308 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 7: the drug and sex scene, no investigation into him would 309 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 7: lead back to the police in any way. 310 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 6: Can I say one percent that David Thorne is innocent? No, 311 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 6: it's because I don't have enough information to absolutely say 312 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 6: one thing or the other. But what I do know 313 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 6: is with absolute one hundred percent guarantee, he did not 314 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 6: get any consideration or fair treatment by the system, and 315 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 6: quite frankly, was identified, early, focused on, and then rare 316 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 6: roaded into prison. 317 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 3: That's what I know. 318 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 7: Eric remember is Yvonne's starcross lover, bad boy she couldn't 319 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 7: get away from. 320 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: He's supposedly the father of three of her children. 321 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 7: Duayane interviewed him and left with a disturbing impression. 322 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 3: He was a hot mess. 323 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, anger and rage, disjointed. 324 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: He was he literally very people scared me. He scared me. 325 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 7: Detectives Mucklow and Samson also brought up Jeremy. Jeremy is 326 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 7: the boyfriend of Eric's mother, Linda. That's a little complicated, 327 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 7: but here's the important thing to remember. Linda had taken 328 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 7: in Vinnie. He was Yvonne's special needs child and the 329 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 7: son of Eric. Just two weeks before the murder, Yvonne 330 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 7: took Vinnie back. Vinnie was the four year old who 331 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 7: was in the house dressed and may have seen the murderer. 332 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 7: The theory is that Jeremy may have killed Yvonne to 333 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 7: get Vinnie back for Linda. 334 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 15: Oh, we don't have a alibi for him, visions. Didn't 335 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 15: you talk to him? No, I'm talking about that non spas. Yeah, 336 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 15: well we did, and like did he say, uh, he's 337 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 15: covered and he gave his fingerprints. He said he'd take 338 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 15: a polygraph. 339 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: But where is this investigation they did? 340 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 7: And to Jeremy, I haven't seen a record of it, 341 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 7: and why did they just drop him if he doesn't 342 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 7: have an alibi? 343 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: And then the psychic. 344 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 7: Describes her vision the person she says killed Yvonne. She 345 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 7: says he's about five foot eight, dark features, and said 346 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 7: Yvonne knew him very well. 347 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 10: I want to transject too, I would be a motorcy 348 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 10: coffee way and somebody who likes to crouch too. Well, 349 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 10: real big just crossing them. I do know the killer 350 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 10: has to have the most and he's somebody who's x M. 351 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 10: You're a marine guy that killed up the killer is 352 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 10: X army or marine. 353 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 3: Jeremy kind of looks starfare mustache. 354 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 9: Well there adolity. 355 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 15: Eight WHOA I described him to A D didn't. 356 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 9: I described the guy to A he didn't? 357 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 5: I I think back in John brought up took twenty. 358 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 5: Where was Jeremy born? He was? He was not in 359 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 5: the Vietnam War, but he was the Vietnam during the 360 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 5: clean up. Okay, yeah, forty I suld like to see 361 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 5: air Cameron's forty four. 362 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 9: So he's exactly the age that I just drove for 363 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 9: the killer. 364 00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 7: Hello, Jeremy is actually five nine, does have a mustache 365 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 7: and dark hair, dark eyes. And when I got his 366 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 7: arrest record, it also listed something that shook even me 367 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 7: somewhat skeptical of the abilities of psychics. He has a 368 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 7: cross tattoo on his arm. But whether you're a believer 369 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 7: or not, every one of these people should have been 370 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 7: looked into, and I have no record of it ever happening, 371 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 7: especially because remember Vinny, the four year old witness even 372 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 7: mentioned a Jeremy as the killer. This is Dwayne Pullman again, 373 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 7: So you know. 374 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 6: From that standpoint, I was just stunned by a system 375 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 6: that didn't evaluate even on motive, the potential, you know, 376 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 6: endless motives of others that could have been a play. 377 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 7: In his deposition, Detective Sampson was asked about all of 378 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 7: these people mentioned in the psychic tapes. 379 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 12: What I'm trying to find out is what when when 380 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 12: other names are brought up by whether they're coming in 381 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 12: and tips to EUI or whether you're getting together in 382 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 12: its situation like this and kind of joint me coming 383 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 12: up with thoughts. 384 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 9: I'm like, who could be? 385 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 8: You know, where can we look for some information? What 386 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 8: I'm trying to find out is all these names that 387 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 8: come up from here, where they look into or not. 388 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: I don't know the problem with the case and the 389 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: stuff that has I'm filled with. 390 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 6: Every time I talk about this case, I get angst 391 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 6: every time. 392 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 3: And I'm a pretty calm guy. 393 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 6: I've been doing journalism for thirty five years at a 394 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 6: pretty high level, and I've covered some crazy stuff. 395 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 3: And I felt. 396 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 6: For the first time in my life on this case 397 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 6: inadequate on getting to the truth. I've never felt that before. Yeah, 398 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 6: and I totally forgive me. I'm not trying to have a. 399 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 3: Session. 400 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 6: But you know that is really really difficult because I 401 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 6: worked really hard on this case. 402 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 3: Look, I don't know where you are in life. I 403 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 3: know where I am. 404 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 6: This this case has absolutely consumed just about everyone who 405 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 6: has touched it, and it's it's it's haunting. 406 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 3: The case is haunting. 407 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 6: The main part I'm trying to I'm trying to help you. 408 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 3: I hope I'm helping you. 409 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 6: Is that as you evaluate everything, the question really comes 410 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 6: down to. 411 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 3: Where do you go? 412 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 7: And I knew Dwayne was right. It turns out I 413 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 7: didn't open a can of worms. I opened a can 414 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 7: of rattlesnakes, corrupt cops, scandals, drugs, and sex. I'm exactly 415 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 7: where Dwayne was. Over a decade ago. Dwayne had one 416 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 7: TV special, but it led nowhere despite the heart and 417 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 7: work that went into it. 418 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: I was frustrated and worried. I was stuck. 419 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 7: I didn't want to end up where Dwayne did after 420 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 7: a decade, so I decided it was time to let 421 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 7: the professionals have a go. 422 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: Coming up on death and deceit in Alliance. 423 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 16: Spent a lot of time on that and I guess 424 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 16: one question is three hundred dollars to murder a woman 425 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 16: in cold blood? 426 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 6: The reason David Thorne is sitting in jail on now 427 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 6: is someone that you acknowledge is a fucking liar. 428 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 16: I know that the allegations are out there that even 429 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 16: some in the police force wereke an advantage of Yvonne's services. 430 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 3: If that's in fact what was happening. 431 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 6: There's a full blown declaration that they went after three 432 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 6: friends of David's. 433 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 16: Did they approached first and tried to coerce them into 434 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 16: testifying against David. 435 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 3: There are things that. 436 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 6: Make you say, well, why is he staying at a 437 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 6: freaking hotel in town that night? 438 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 3: You know, right off the bat. 439 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 16: A couple of things that raised my eyebrows are the 440 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 16: knife in the pants. How did Joe lead them to 441 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 16: the circumstances? And Joe did lead them there, then that's 442 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 16: a big deal. 443 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 7: Death and deceit in Alliance is produced and reported by 444 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 7: me Maggie Freeling, with editorial consulting from Amber Hunt. Aaron 445 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 7: Case is our legal researcher. Our executive producer is Steve Fishman. 446 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 7: Our engineer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Eric axelrod 447 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 7: Is our assistant producer.