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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Thursday, September eighteenth. I'm Stephanie

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Speaker 2: Leidecker and I head up KAT Studios, where we make

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Speaker 2: true crime podcasts and documentaries like the Idaho Student Murders

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Speaker 2: streaming now on Peacock or the Idaho Massacre of season

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Speaker 2: three Catch It now on iHeart, and I get to

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Speaker 2: be here every night with Courtney Armstrong and Body move In.

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Speaker 3: So listen.

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Speaker 2: We're going a little off script tonight because we have

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Speaker 2: such a special guest, an extraordinary woman, here to talk

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Speaker 2: about resilience and inspiration and really how to get to

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Speaker 2: the other side of real trauma. Amanda Knox is with

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Speaker 2: a Tonight for the full hour. So before we go

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Speaker 2: any further, Courtney a little setup of the story.

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Speaker 4: Amanda Knox's story is one of the most widely covered

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Speaker 4: wrongful conviction cases in modern history. In two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 4: while studying abroad in Perusia, Italy, her roommate Meredith Percher

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Speaker 4: was murdered. Amanda quickly became the focus of the investigation.

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Speaker 4: Language barriers, cultural misunderstandings, and a media firestorm turned her

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Speaker 4: life upside down. Amanda spent nearly four years in prison

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Speaker 4: and endured eight years of trials. Finally before Italy Supreme Court,

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Speaker 4: she was acquitted of murder in twenty fifteen. Today, Amanda

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Speaker 4: is an advocate, journalist, and storyteller. She is the executive

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Speaker 4: producer of The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, now streaming

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Speaker 4: on Hulu. She also hosts the podcast Hard Knox. Amanda

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Speaker 4: serves as Advisory Council Chair for the Frederick Douglas Project

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Speaker 4: for Justice. She is an Innocence Network Ambassador and sits

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Speaker 4: on the board of the Innocent Center. Amanda Knox is

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Speaker 4: more more than a survivor of injustice. She's a leading

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Speaker 4: voice for truth, accountability, and reform.

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Speaker 3: Welcome amand an Ox. We're so excited. We're so excited.

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Speaker 2: I get a little bit of a chill even hearing

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Speaker 2: this setup there. We all really remember your story so

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Speaker 2: much when it first happened, and really seeing you on

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Speaker 2: the other side is such an inspiration for all of us,

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Speaker 2: and as I was saying before we started the show,

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Speaker 2: our community and audience, we're all justice junkies, So you

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Speaker 2: have come to just the right place. We are your

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Speaker 2: people and we want to hear it all. So I mean, listen,

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Speaker 2: congratulations on the extraordinary show. Your Hulu scripted series is

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Speaker 2: a harrowing watch. If you haven't seen it, anyone, please do.

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Speaker 2: It's on Hulu and it is really dizzying almost you

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Speaker 2: really feel the chaos. First of all, I love the

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Speaker 2: actress so much who plays you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's so incredible.

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Speaker 5: She really really takes just completely loses herself in the part.

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Speaker 5: And it's a hard part to lose yourself in because

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Speaker 5: she's playing you know, me at twenty years old, she's

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Speaker 5: playing me at thirty five years old.

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Speaker 3: As she's playing me at all.

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Speaker 5: Stages of fluency and Italian from none to everything. She

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Speaker 5: worked her butt off to perform this role, and I'm

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Speaker 5: just so proud of her and grateful to her. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's been an incredible time working with her.

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Speaker 3: It's an extraordinary watch too.

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Speaker 2: And to that end, I'm curious, you know, as an

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Speaker 2: executive producer, I mean, clearly you're taking your narrative back.

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Speaker 2: You're telling your story through your own vision, which is really.

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Speaker 3: Extraordinary, and it does.

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Speaker 2: It has a vibe, it's cool, it's petrifying, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's all of our worst nightmares, honestly. So I'm so

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Speaker 2: curious just watching your show from a different perspective, is

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Speaker 2: there a certain scene or something that while watching affected

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Speaker 2: you in a different way than you expected it to,

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Speaker 2: because perspective is such a powerful thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, I will say that working on this series has

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Speaker 5: been very different. It's been a very different experience for

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Speaker 5: me than the many other ways that I've attempted to

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Speaker 5: reclaim my story right, Like I have been screaming from

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Speaker 5: the rooftops what my story has been since, you know,

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Speaker 5: the early days of what was going on, and it's

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Speaker 5: been a very lonely battle trying to just prove my

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Speaker 5: innocence and be believed. But now working on this series,

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Speaker 5: I find myself a part of a community, like takes

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Speaker 5: a village to make a Hulu series, So I get

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Speaker 5: to share the burden of telling this story with others

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Speaker 5: who just are coming from their own places, like they

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Speaker 5: have their own context for appreciating what happened to me

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Speaker 5: and what happened, you know, to my roommate Meredith, what

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Speaker 5: happened to my co defendant and ex boyfriend, raphe La. Like,

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Speaker 5: there's so many people whose lives were just irrevocably impacted

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Speaker 5: by the series of events that took place in Italy,

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Speaker 5: And I think that one of the things that we

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Speaker 5: all had in mind was really trying to get it

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Speaker 5: right after so much of the telling of it was

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Speaker 5: so wrong and so exploitative and so scandalous and really

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Speaker 5: like lost track of what even the truth was for

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Speaker 5: the sake of that scandal, And so everyone was really

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Speaker 5: really intent on getting it right from a factual standpoint,

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Speaker 5: but also getting it right from an emotive standpoint. And

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Speaker 5: for me, there are so many beautiful scenes that really

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Speaker 5: matter to me in this series, everything from the kind

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Speaker 5: like a lot of the series is about human connection

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Speaker 5: and how we come together and how we are torn

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Speaker 5: apart and what are the.

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Speaker 3: Forces that do that.

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Speaker 5: But as an advocate, like as somebody now who is

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Speaker 5: devoting a significant amount of my energy and time to

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Speaker 5: trying to change the system that we all rely on,

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Speaker 5: the justice system that we rely on, for the better,

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Speaker 5: based upon what I've learned from my own experience. The

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Speaker 5: biggest scene that I was most concerned about getting right

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Speaker 5: from both a factual and emotive standpoint was the interrogation scene,

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Speaker 5: which is an episode two, and it's an intense scene,

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Speaker 5: and it's something that I was nervous going into this

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Speaker 5: because I knew that I was the only person, the

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Speaker 5: only person in this entire village of people who had

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Speaker 5: ever been interrogated before. And also I had gone through

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Speaker 5: my entire adult life being not believed and not just

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Speaker 5: not believed about what happened to me, but also blamed

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Speaker 5: like I was criminally charged for how I like what

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Speaker 5: happened in my interrogation, where I was absolutely at the

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Speaker 5: mercy of the police officers, and so I think, maybe

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Speaker 5: just from a trauma standpoint, like I was really concerned

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Speaker 5: about making sure that my partners in this process understood

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Speaker 5: what this experience was like for me, so that they

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Speaker 5: could represent that on screen. And part of the challenge was,

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Speaker 5: I mean, there were many challenges. One of the challenges

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Speaker 5: was that my approach to this telling of the story

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Speaker 5: has very much been grounded in the idea that there

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Speaker 5: are no black and white villains, right, that is, it

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Speaker 5: is so important for understanding how wrongful convictions happen, to

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Speaker 5: not turn it into a black and white narrative where

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Speaker 5: there's a victim and a villain and a hero and

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Speaker 5: nothing in between.

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Speaker 3: And there are.

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Speaker 5: Cases of like egregious cases of wrongful conviction where the

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Speaker 5: police knew exactly what they were doing and they were

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Speaker 5: framing incent people. But that's not what I believe happened

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Speaker 5: in my case, and that's not what happens in so

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Speaker 5: many wrongful conviction cases. What really happens is that police

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Speaker 5: officers and prosecutors convince themselves of the guilt of an

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Speaker 5: innocent person and then pursue a case against them with

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Speaker 5: confirmation bias, like cherry picking evidence to make a person

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Speaker 5: seem guilty, ignoring evidence that exonerates them, and finding excuses

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Speaker 5: to justify their preconceived ideas. And so that's what I

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Speaker 5: believed happened, and that was something that I wanted to convey.

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Speaker 5: I wanted people who watched this series to feel like,

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Speaker 5: no matter whose shoes they were stepping into, they could

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Speaker 5: appreciate how that person's mind was working. And so in

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Speaker 5: the interrogation room, you have a lot of people and

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of conflict happening, not just even between

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Speaker 5: me and the interrogators, but even amongst the interrogators. There

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Speaker 5: are those who are trying to be gentle with me,

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Speaker 5: trying to coax me. There are those who are being

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Speaker 5: really aggressive towards me. And everyone is coming to that scenario,

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Speaker 5: you know, exhausted, having already worked overtime numerous days. There's

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Speaker 5: the language barrier, there's the media, the media pressure, and

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Speaker 5: so everyone is coming into that scenario not their best

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Speaker 5: self and trying to like convey that dynamic, that psychological

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Speaker 5: dynamic between all of these different forces and how they

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Speaker 5: collide and the dramatic and tragic outcome that arises was

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Speaker 5: really important to me. And then the other thing that

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Speaker 5: was important to me. And you know, even as we

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Speaker 5: were filming, we didn't really have a clear plan for

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Speaker 5: how to portray this. You know, you see interrogation scenes

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Speaker 5: on TV, but you've never seen what it feels like

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Speaker 5: for the defendant, how they are encouraged to imagine things

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Speaker 5: that didn't actually happen. How do you convey what's happening

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Speaker 5: inside the mind of the person who's being interrogated.

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Speaker 2: You spoke very little Italian too, right, This is exactly

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Speaker 2: language barrier.

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Speaker 5: Oh one hundred percent. There was cultural barriers, language barriers,

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Speaker 5: and then of course there's this idea that they're implanting

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Speaker 5: in my mind at the time that I'm trying to

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Speaker 5: make sense of as I'm like blurring memories into each

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Speaker 5: other to try to make them make sense after they

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Speaker 5: tell me I have trauma induced amnesia. Like, there's so

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Speaker 5: much going on from a psychological standpoint, and I really

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Speaker 5: wanted to get it right so that people could actually

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Speaker 5: put themselves in the shoes of somebody who not only

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Speaker 5: is being interrogated, but who falsely confessed because so many

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Speaker 5: that's like a huge contributing factor to wrongful convictions and

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Speaker 5: it's so prejudicial. People just do not understand how an

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Speaker 5: innocent person could be compelled to testify against themselves or

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Speaker 5: others if they're innocent. And so that was something that

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Speaker 5: I needed to get right. And I really feel like

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Speaker 5: we did get it right.

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Speaker 3: You did, Oh yeah, like you guys tell me like

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Speaker 3: how well, I'm.

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Speaker 6: Very familiar with the read technique and I'm recognize it immediately,

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Speaker 6: and I thought that it did. It was such a

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Speaker 6: good visual example of the confusion and the sleep deprivation

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Speaker 6: and everything that they were implanting in you. You know,

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Speaker 6: it was just a really really well done scene. I

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Speaker 6: think when we were going over the questions earlier, I

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Speaker 6: kind of implanted in my own brain, I think that

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Speaker 6: it's going to.

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Speaker 3: Be episode that she answers with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think he's did a really good job, really good job.

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Speaker 3: Well thank you. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And but of course there were tons of other scenes

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Speaker 5: that were so you know, beautiful and personal, Like, have

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Speaker 5: you guys seen all of the episodes yet? Did you

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Speaker 5: guys get screener like all the all the ones that

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Speaker 5: are out, so you don't have the final two episodes?

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Speaker 3: No, no, we're not home yet. There's those spoilers. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 3: how it ends. I won't tell you how it ends.

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Speaker 5: I will say that I did co write the final

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Speaker 5: episode with that showrunner, and so I'm very excited for

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Speaker 5: people to see that. Obviously, Wow, And it's where a

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Speaker 5: lot of really personal, like the stakes of the story

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Speaker 5: really become clear.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 5: There is that sort of promised confrontation between me and

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Speaker 5: my prosecutor that is teased in the first episode, but

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Speaker 5: there's also like a final confrontation between me and raphael A,

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Speaker 5: which is very beautiful. You know, like there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of really good it's good. It's a well written episode,

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Speaker 5: if I say so for myself.

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Speaker 3: So stay tuned.

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Speaker 2: I mean we can't write yeah, talking about like toking

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Speaker 2: pain and making that your purpose. Right, So here you are,

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Speaker 2: you get to tell the tale in the way that

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Speaker 2: you want to, twisted as it may be. But to

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Speaker 2: be on the other side of that is extremely major.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, body's been talking about this read technique for

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Speaker 2: a while and it's important stuff to sort of be

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Speaker 2: able to know what do you do in that situation?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well it's it's kind of a trap, is the problem,

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Speaker 5: and that unfortunately, when the police have decided that they

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Speaker 5: are going to get you to confess, there really is

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Speaker 5: no way out. The only way out is to be

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Speaker 5: quiet and to ask for an attorney. That's that's it,

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Speaker 5: and it's that's it. It's a trap, and it's designed

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Speaker 5: to be a trap, and that's what's And you're are in.

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Speaker 6: Another country, you know, like what are your rights? And

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Speaker 6: you don't know everything, and like you know, at least

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Speaker 6: if it were here, you wouldn't know what to do me.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I don't even know if you would, I would

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Speaker 3: not know what to do.

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Speaker 5: No, I mean, and I was twenty, I had any

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Speaker 5: experience with any Yeah, you're young, much less the Italian.

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Speaker 3: We're just a.

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Speaker 6: Baby, your baby over there, you know, and it's horrifying.

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Speaker 6: And then you got the language Bayrier on top of it. Again,

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Speaker 6: you're deprived of sleep, you just want to go, you

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Speaker 6: just wanted to end, So at some point you're willing

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Speaker 6: to basically say anything just to get out of that room. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 6: And it's I just think that that scene in episode

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Speaker 6: two again, please watch it. It's The Twisted Tail of

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Speaker 6: Amanda Knox. It's on Hulu and it's really that scene.

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Speaker 6: Just there was another scene that is in episode one,

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Speaker 6: and it's when Meredith is discovered and the actress that

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Speaker 6: plays you, Grace, she the camera kind of zooms in

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Speaker 6: on her and everything goes quiet, and it's really chaotic.

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Speaker 6: It gives me the chills because it's kind of like

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Speaker 6: you kind of get the impression that everything is it's

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Speaker 6: finally coming down, like you realize what's happening, and it's

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Speaker 6: just it's a terrifying moment in the episode.

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Speaker 3: And I thought that was really well done as well.

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Speaker 3: But great job, absolutely very impactful. And listen.

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Speaker 4: Stick around, because coming up we get to continue our

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Speaker 4: conversation with Amanda Knox and we'll be discussing everything.

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Speaker 3: From here to there.

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Speaker 4: Keep it here at True Crime Tonight, we are talking

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Speaker 4: true crime all the time.

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Speaker 2: And tonight we are very pleased to announce that we

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Speaker 2: have Amanda Knox with us to tell us her tale

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Speaker 2: of survival and resilience. Obviously, we've been talking a lot

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Speaker 2: about your dramatic series, The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox,

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Speaker 2: and we really encourage everyone to watch it because again,

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Speaker 2: you're the executive producer and you've been able to tell

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Speaker 2: your story your way, and it's really extraordinary because even

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Speaker 2: the nuanced performances and just the look of it, it

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Speaker 2: does set a stage and suddenly you're reminded you were

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Speaker 2: twenty years old.

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Speaker 3: These are the.

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Speaker 2: Most harrowing scenarios a young woman could be in and

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Speaker 2: looking at you right now, I mean to be any

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Speaker 2: other side of it.

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Speaker 3: Can we just say she has not aged? How is

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Speaker 3: that possible?

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Speaker 2: All I want to do is something's going on and

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Speaker 2: care I do too.

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Speaker 3: I want to know about your musing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly like you have not aged, And it's

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Speaker 2: pretty extraordinary, and that's while under a.

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Speaker 3: Ton of stress. So uh, I mean, when.

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Speaker 5: You look closer, you would see quite a few straggly

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Speaker 5: gray hairs.

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Speaker 3: That's okay, well, well turns yeah.

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Speaker 2: I always try to say that all of our wrinkles,

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Speaker 2: you know what, we earned them, hopefully with some smiles

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Speaker 2: at least. But no, it's really a joy to have

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Speaker 2: you and just to hear your perspective, because listen, we've

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Speaker 2: all followed your case, you know, for so so long,

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Speaker 2: and it really was one of the biggest cases probably

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Speaker 2: the twenty first century, right, I don't think I'm overstating that.

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Speaker 2: And as a young woman now years later, looking back

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Speaker 2: in hindsight, I'm sure you're pretty protective of the twenty

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Speaker 2: year old version of you. I mean, imagine just being

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Speaker 2: in this scenario for the very first time and not

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Speaker 2: speaking the language and experiencing something really traumatic and then

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Speaker 2: being wrongfully accused and a trial, and then suddenly the

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Speaker 2: headlines that come with that. No one's really prepared for

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Speaker 2: that to the extent that you had to face it

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Speaker 2: head on, and it's nothing shy of inspiring.

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Speaker 3: Times. Ten, let's say that, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, I can't take full credit for everything because I

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Speaker 5: certainly wasn't alone, Like my family absolutely came immediately to

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Speaker 5: my defense my friends as well, Like I was alone

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Speaker 5: in the sense that no one was there to hold

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Speaker 5: my hand in prison. That was certainly a really difficult

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Speaker 5: part of the experience, was being isolated from everyone.

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Speaker 3: I loved that way, and especially as.

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Speaker 5: The case kept going and then I was convicted and

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Speaker 5: facing you know, decades in prison, and I definitely had

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Speaker 5: a moment there where I was afraid that as hard

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Speaker 5: as my family was trying to save me and to

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Speaker 5: make me feel like I belonged with them, I was

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Speaker 5: on this path that was just taking me further and

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Speaker 5: further away from them, you know, my life, Like I

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Speaker 5: was stacking up life experiences that were.

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Speaker 3: Alienating to them. They didn't know what it.

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Speaker 5: Was like to be strip searched on a regular basis

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Speaker 5: and to be surrounded by traumatized people all day long,

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Speaker 5: and to be vilified viciously in.

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Speaker 3: An international media.

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Speaker 5: So like, yeah, in ways, I was very alone, but

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Speaker 5: I was never made to feel like some of the

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Speaker 5: other prisoners that I countered in prison, like a big

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Speaker 5: difference between me and them that which made me feel

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Speaker 5: like I was so profoundly lucky compared to them, Despite

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Speaker 5: being like the innocent person in a prison full of

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Speaker 5: mostly guilty people, I felt like I was profoundly lucky

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Speaker 5: compared to them because I was love like that I

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Speaker 5: at no point in my experience, and this is something

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Speaker 5: that I truly attribute my ability to survive. This is

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Speaker 5: the fact that from as long as I can remember,

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Speaker 5: my mom instilled in me this deep, deep knowledge that

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Speaker 5: I mattered and that I was love. And so even

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Speaker 5: when the whole world turned against me and absolutely was

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Speaker 5: communicating to me that the truth didn't matter and that

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Speaker 5: I didn't matter, I never lost sight of like that deep,

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Speaker 5: like visceral truth that I did matter and the truth

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Speaker 5: did matter. And so you know, I didn't give up

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Speaker 5: in the way that I saw a lot of people

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Speaker 5: around me who had lives of abuse and neglect and

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Speaker 5: poverty and exploitation, like the vast majority of the women

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Speaker 5: that I was imprisoned with were victims of crime before

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Speaker 5: they ever became criminals themselves, like, and they were by

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Speaker 5: and large forgotten by the people in their life, abandon betrayed.

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Speaker 5: And so I felt like that was something that really

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Speaker 5: became very clear to me after I was removed from

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Speaker 5: isolation and put into gen pop that there was a

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Speaker 5: big difference between me and the rest of my community

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Speaker 5: and that was the most important thing.

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Speaker 4: That's so as harrowing as that is, that's such an

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Speaker 4: inspiring thing for people to sort of take in the

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Speaker 4: importance of having instilled in you that you are important,

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Speaker 4: that you matter, that all of the matter.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, people ask me now, like, what can

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Speaker 5: I tell my kid to like, you know, if bad

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Speaker 5: things happen to us all in life, what is the

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Speaker 5: biggest lesson that I can convey to my kids?

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Speaker 3: What is the thing?

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Speaker 5: And like, it's so simple. It's just that they matter,

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Speaker 5: that they matter.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 5: If your kid knows that they matter, they can survive anything.

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Speaker 3: Because that's what got you through it all.

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Speaker 6: That's what got me mattered, and the truth mattered, and

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Speaker 6: your story was important, the truth.

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Speaker 5: But if you feel if you feel like deep down

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Speaker 5: you don't matter, well no, yeah, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm allowed to sweat to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, You've already paid your dues. Yeah, let it rip, baby,

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Speaker 2: let it rip.

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Speaker 3: This is true.

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Speaker 7: Crametonight on iHeartRadio, I'm body movin And I'm here with

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Speaker 7: Stephanieleidecker and Courtney Armstrong and we are so lucky enough

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Speaker 7: to be joined by Amanda Knox and she's talking about

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Speaker 7: her new scripted drama.

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Speaker 6: It is on Hulu. It's called The Twisted Tail of

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Speaker 6: Amanda Knox and Amanda, We're just so happy that you're

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Speaker 6: here and we just really appreciate it. Courtney, you mentioned

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Speaker 6: that you wanted to talk about this villain hero situation.

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Speaker 3: Did you want to?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I love that you said that earlier,

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Speaker 4: and it really comes across like there are nuances and

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Speaker 4: people that I began to I won't use the word hate,

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Speaker 4: but do really dislike watching it. Then I got to

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Speaker 4: see their perspective. So how important was that, you know,

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Speaker 4: as an executive producer just putting that together and deciding, okay,

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Speaker 4: we should do perspectives and here are the people whose

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Speaker 4: perspective we should do.

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Speaker 3: What was that like? Because it's very effective.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that was fundamental to the making of this show.

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Speaker 5: From the very very beginning. I was always saying, like,

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Speaker 5: I am not going to participate in the way that

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Speaker 5: these stories are typically told, which is again this very

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Speaker 5: black and white perspective of here's the villain, here's the victim,

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Speaker 5: here's the hero. Like, that's not what That's how my

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00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 5: story has been told wrong for so long, and I

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Speaker 5: think that it does a disservice to the truth.

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Speaker 3: Which again, the truth matters.

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Speaker 5: And I am not in the business of committing the

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Speaker 5: same kinds of mistakes that were committed towards me. So

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Speaker 5: as we approach the story and we recognize that mistakes

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Speaker 5: were made and that harm was done, we have to

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Speaker 5: give the benefit of the doubt to everyone involved. We

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00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 5: have to view these set of facts through a humanistic lens,

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Speaker 5: and that, like it was a radical choice that was

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Speaker 5: very difficult at times, Like one of those characters is

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Speaker 5: the person who murdered my roommate, right, And if I

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Speaker 5: had extra like when we are originally visioning telling this story,

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Speaker 5: I like had so many more episodes in my head

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Speaker 5: than what we actually had in real life, because like

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Speaker 5: you know how in the show we have an episode

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Speaker 5: where you see, like we give a little Ameilee history

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Speaker 5: of Amanda, we give a little Ameilee history of raphae La,

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Speaker 5: we give a little Ameile history to Minini. I originally

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Speaker 5: wanted there to be also an amele history of Meredith

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Speaker 5: and an Amele history of Rudy Gadey and oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect storm.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, the perfect storm of these these people who

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Speaker 5: came together in a moment in their lives in this

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Speaker 5: like perfect crisis point. And like again, if I had

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Speaker 5: had more time in this show, I would have shown

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Speaker 5: like how you know Rudy Gaday the person who raped

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Speaker 5: and murdered my roommate, he was spiraling like he was

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Speaker 5: a young person who had been torn away from his

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Speaker 5: mother at a young age, then abandoned by his father,

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Speaker 5: had been you know, hopping around from Foster home to

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Speaker 5: Foster home, got into trouble, was breaking, you know, breaking

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Speaker 5: and entering, was stealing things, was spiraling, and then.

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Speaker 3: He committed this crime.

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Speaker 5: And one of the things that we do show in

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Speaker 5: the series is that this the crime could have been avoided.

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Speaker 5: Right like five days before Rudy Gidek committed this crime,

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Speaker 5: he was arrested for having broken and entered into a

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Speaker 5: different place, and he was in possession of stolen goods

439
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 5: and he was in possession of a knife five days

440
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 5: before this crime occurred. And if he had been I

441
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 5: don't know. To this day, I still do not understand

442
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 5: and there has never been a good answer out there

443
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 5: for why he was just released and not actually held

444
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 5: accountable to this crime. But like the consequences. Five days

445
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 5: later he broke into my house and murdered my roommate.

446
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 5: And none of this would have happened if something had

447
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 5: intervened in his life too.

448
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: So you know, you say that you know grace, and

449
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: you took the words literally about it, even as always

450
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: I was literally just going to ask, like, as you

451
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: say that, I almost get a little like chilled, clem

452
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: the level of grace that's required to see you right now,

453
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: even speaking about the man who committed the murder that

454
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: you were accused of. Friendly reminder, twenty years old, living

455
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: in a New Land, having like the greatest you know,

456
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: Italian adventure and you know a love adventure and record scratch,

457
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: life got really real and you know, where do you

458
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: find the grace now so many years later to forgive

459
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: you know, not to spoil the ending, but we know

460
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: the prosecutor who really.

461
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 3: Wanted you behind bars is somebody that you've really come

462
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 3: to terms with.

463
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 2: And even this killer, you describe his backstory and his

464
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: origin story with compassion.

465
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, I mean again, it goes back to the

466
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 5: fact that the truth matters, right, Like all of that

467
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 5: that I just told you about person who murdered my

468
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 5: roommate and then subsequently went on to blame me for it,

469
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 5: and you know, and now it's a trial for sexually

470
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 5: assaulting another person after he got out of prison. Like

471
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 5: this is clearly a very troubled person who had a

472
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 5: very troubled past. And a lot of people ask me

473
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 5: if I like set out to forgive my prosecutor or

474
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 5: to forgive, you know, the person who committed this crime.

475
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 5: And it wasn't about forgiveness for me. I didn't have

476
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 5: some spiritual awakening and I was like, I gotta forgive

477
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 5: these people, That wasn't it. I just wanted to understand why.

478
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 5: I wanted to understand why this happened. And understanding why

479
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 5: this happened from a very honest standpoint requires you to

480
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 5: come into contact with uncomfortable truths, unfortunate truths, and those

481
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 5: it's uncomfortable to realize that people who commit egregious harm

482
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 5: are also people, right, But it's true, and that's you.

483
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 5: Just Like for me, as somebody who cares about being

484
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 5: an effective person in the world world, I believe that

485
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 5: the only way that you can be effective.

486
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: Is to acknowledge what is true.

487
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 5: Like if I just in my brain wrote off both

488
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 5: of these two men as evil, I would approach them

489
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 5: and I would approach the world with a completely different mindset,

490
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 5: but it would be a mindset that I don't think

491
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 5: would be ultimately effective. I wouldn't be actually interacting with

492
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 5: the world as it is and with people as they are,

493
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 5: so instead I choose to acknowledge how they really are,

494
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 5: which is fragile people, and then decide.

495
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 3: What to do. You're a really evolved human being. I

496
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 3: have to say, like you're saying, I wish I was.

497
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 6: Just gonna say, oh my god, because like it's so

498
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 6: easy to hate and tell the story like from only

499
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 6: your perspective and say them you have soon yeah, and

500
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 6: them it's their fault and you know whatever. But you

501
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 6: really are an evolved person, right, Like you're telling all

502
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 6: sides of the story. It's just I'm very impressed, and

503
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 6: I'm very hard to impress.

504
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 4: So like.

505
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 5: I am, I know it's done, done, and yeah, body.

506
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: Move and stamp of approval, yeah, underline, exclamation point, end

507
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: of story.

508
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: Wow.

509
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 6: So yeah, because I just don't you guys think it's

510
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 6: just so much easier to tell only your side and

511
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 6: you know, say, you know I was a victim, right

512
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 6: I was, and just tell that story instead of telling

513
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 6: like a more nuanced.

514
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: On Hulu, the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, and it

515
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: is really good and harrowing and emotional and checks all

516
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: of the boxes and scary. You know, we were talking

517
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 2: about it during the break. I think the idea of

518
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: being imprisoned, especially for some crime you didn't commit, and

519
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: feeling like no one's listening to you and you're getting buried,

520
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 2: and other people's shame and guilt and confusion, and you know,

521
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: there's a time probably where you just want to call

522
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: it because you must feel hopeless, but somehow you just

523
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: push through mentally. Any tricks or any takeaway from that

524
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: that we should be aware of.

525
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's a big takeaway from the series. And

526
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 5: you'll see more of this also in the next two

527
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 5: episodes that come out, because they show me out of prison,

528
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 5: but still very much like you said, like buried beneath

529
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 5: this story, buried beneath the stigma's accusation defined by an

530
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 5: ordeal that I ultimately didn't have any agency, and I

531
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 5: didn't do anything right. But in terms of like the

532
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 5: prison of it all, like even the most recent episode,

533
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 5: it was a turning point for me, Like there was

534
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 5: this existential crisis that I experienced after I received the

535
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 5: verdict where it was like, oh my god, I'm not

536
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 5: like in this state of limbo where I'm fighting to

537
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 5: get my life back. This is my life and I

538
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 5: know it's not about me going home. Prison is my home.

539
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 5: So given that, fah, what do I do with that?

540
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: Now?

541
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 8: What?

542
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeh?

543
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 5: And it was the first step of this like long

544
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 5: process of acceptance. That was something that I instinctively rebelled

545
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 5: against because you know, here I am living a life

546
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 5: that isn't fair. But you know, tough reality check, none

547
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 5: of us are living lives that are fair. Like universal

548
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 5: message is, we're all living lives that are not fair.

549
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 5: There are all of us had elements of our lives

550
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 5: that we do not have any control over. And so

551
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 5: now what like just those things that are there that

552
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 5: are real that you have to contend with. Being in

553
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 5: denial of them does not make you an effective agent

554
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 5: in your own lives. So if you want to have

555
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 5: some kind of fulfilling purpose in your life, you have

556
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 5: to start by accepting the premises, like the premises that

557
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 5: you can't avoid. And for me, in that moment of conviction,

558
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 5: it was I'm going to spend at least another several years,

559
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 5: if not decades in prison.

560
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: So what do I do?

561
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 5: Well, I start looking around me and notice that there

562
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 5: is opportunity even here. Here is a place where, like

563
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 5: I said in an earlier segment, I'm actually one of

564
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 5: the lucky ones. Like not only am I love, but

565
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: I am healthy, and I'm educated, and I can read

566
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 5: and write. A lot of the people around me could

567
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 5: not read or write. I can speak Italian and English.

568
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 5: At this point, a lot of the people that I

569
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 5: was in prisoned with were foreigners and could not speak Italian.

570
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 5: And so they call it a hustle in prison. But

571
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 5: it's like a purpose. Like I had a job. It

572
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 5: was not an official job. I was not paid to

573
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 5: do this job. But I was the translator. I was

574
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 5: the scribe. I help people read their court documents. I

575
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 5: helped them write letters to their family, I helped them

576
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 5: communicate their ailments to the doctors. It was something that

577
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 5: I could do, and so I did it, and it

578
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 5: gave you know, be careful what you wish for. I

579
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 5: did go to Italy to become a translator, and like, whoops,

580
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 5: here I was just a translator, and you know, like

581
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 5: it did it make up for the fact that I

582
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 5: was in prison for something I didn't do, No, of course,

583
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 5: but it certainly wasn't just laying in bed crying my

584
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 5: eyes out every day. Like it was something that gave

585
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 5: me purpose. And then once you gain purpose, once you

586
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 5: gain momentum in your life, you can it's a mental shift,

587
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 5: and I think that was something that I had to

588
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 5: relearn once I got out of prison. And you know,

589
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 5: I don't again don't want to spoil alert anything, but

590
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 5: the ultimate sort of takeaways of my story, there are

591
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 5: a number of them, but one of them is that

592
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 5: to be an effective person in your own life, you

593
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 5: have to accept the premises, like these are the conditions

594
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 5: of your life. Now what now do something with them.

595
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 5: You can't change them, you can't change the past, you

596
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 5: can't change who you are. You can't get into other

597
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: people's minds and make them think different things. So given

598
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 5: all of that, what can you do? Don't waste your

599
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 5: time obsessing about what you can't do.

600
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 3: I just wanted to remind our listeners about your story

601
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: if it's okay, very quickly sure.

602
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 6: In two thousand and seven, Amanda Knoxy was a college

603
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 6: in Italy when her roommate Meredith Pircher was murdered. Knox

604
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 6: and her boyfriend were accused, launching years of sensational headlines

605
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 6: and courtroom battles. She was convicted, acquitted, and reconvicted before

606
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 6: Italy's highest court finally cleared her in twenty fifteen. After

607
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 6: nearly four years behind bars, she returned home and now

608
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 6: she speaks out about justice, wrongful convictions, hope, and the

609
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 6: power of media spins. So please continue, Amanda, I did

610
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 6: not want to interrupt you. Please continue.

611
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, no, I just wanted to say that

612
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 5: the other big takeaway that I hope people get from

613
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 5: watching the show is, you know, arriving at that universal

614
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 5: truth of feeling like they can regain agency in their

615
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 5: own lives in this way, but also the power of

616
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 5: human connection. Like one of the biggest stories of this

617
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: series and of my life, I feel like is my

618
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 5: attempt to communicate myself to the man who accused me

619
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 5: of a horrific crime and who felt justified in throwing

620
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 5: me in prison and asking me to stay there for

621
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 5: the right of my life? How do I communicate with

622
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 5: this person? And I really do feel like in a way,

623
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 5: we were set up to not be able to communicate

624
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 5: with each other because the justice system is so adversarial.

625
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 5: And my approach then became, Well, if I am in

626
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 5: a condition that is adversarial, of course we're not going

627
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 5: to communicate with each other. He's going to dig in

628
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 5: his heels. I'm going to stand up for myself, and

629
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 5: no communication, no understanding, is going to happen. So what

630
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 5: if I tried. I don't like put aside or pretend

631
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 5: that the bad thing didn't happen, But what if it

632
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 5: is possible to find common ground even with your worst adversary,

633
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 5: Like what could happen? And like, I'm a curious enough

634
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 5: person that I was driven, I was compelled to be like,

635
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 5: what will happen? I know what's going to happen. If

636
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 5: I don't, I know what's going to happen. If I

637
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 5: just hold it against him forever, nothing's going to happen.

638
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 5: So what if I do the opposite? What if I

639
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 5: try to find common ground? What if I try to

640
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 5: seek an ally in my adversary? What would happen. Then

641
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 5: maybe I fail, but maybe I don't. And that's what

642
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 5: the series also is about, which it was a cool

643
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 5: story for these days and ages.

644
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: I'll say, I was just gonna say that's time late,

645
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 2: especially right now.

646
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 3: It's a real universal truth.

647
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: The world changes, you change with it, period, and everyone's evolving.

648
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 5: Everyone's a process.

649
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, what Amanda in all of this?

650
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 4: And really your sort of empathy And also I love

651
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 4: how you talked about the translating and helping the women

652
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 4: that you were with, because it didn't seem like you

653
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 4: had a lot of help.

654
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 5: There was no I did not have any help. I

655
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 5: had to teach myself Italian with Harry Potter and a dictionary.

656
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Yeah, well well done.

657
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 3: If I could say.

658
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 5: To the fact that no one was speaking English and

659
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 5: it's had to figure it out.

660
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 4: Kind of when did you decide I'm going to become

661
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 4: an advocate?

662
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 3: Like what was there a point?

663
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 5: You know, that's a really fun question because that was

664
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 5: not what I was intending when I got out of prison.

665
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 5: I really just wanted to go back to being an

666
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 5: anonymous college student, and I first had to come into

667
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 5: the realization that that was not possible for me because

668
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 5: I was continuing to be stalked by media, and you know,

669
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 5: people recognized me constantly. I couldn't make friends, you know,

670
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 5: like people were texting about me in class and posting

671
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 5: pictures of me, and so I couldn't just go back

672
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 5: to being an anonymous person. I spent a lot of

673
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 5: time feeling really isolated and exiled, like here I am

674
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 5: in the free world, but I don't belong anywhere. I

675
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 5: don't belong to anyone, and I was really struggling. And

676
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 5: it wasn't until my mom forcibly took me to something

677
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 5: called the Innocence Network Conference, which is an annual gathering

678
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 5: of innocence projects throughout the world that here in the

679
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 5: United States, and I met other wrongly convicted people, and

680
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 5: I just got a glimpse, a glimpse of how my

681
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 5: story and what I went through played a role in

682
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 5: this much bigger story about justice and about our institutions.

683
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 5: And you know, I didn't know anything, Like I was

684
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 5: not a true crime fanatic before all of this happened

685
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 5: to me, So I knew nothing. I knew absolutely nothing

686
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 5: about the criminal justice system. And then I met person

687
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 5: after person after person who had gone who had been

688
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 5: interrogated and also confessed people who had eyewitnesses point out,

689
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 5: or people have been tortured by the police, like people

690
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 5: who had spent decades longer in prison than I had,

691
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 5: and here in the United States. And I realized that

692
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 5: this was a much more pervasive problem than I realized,

693
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 5: and that.

694
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: How could nobody know about this? How could I grow

695
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,959
Speaker 3: up entirely oblivious to this fact? Right?

696
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 5: And I realized that I was in this really unique position,

697
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 5: like as much as I had to deal with global vilification,

698
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 5: I was recognized as a person who had gone through

699
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 5: the justice system, and over time, more and more people

700
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 5: were recognizing that I was actually innocent, and I was

701
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 5: proof of what had been happening all along. You know,

702
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 5: I didn't look like the vast majority of people get

703
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 5: wrongly convicted. Most people are men, Most people are men

704
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 5: of minorities, Most people are men who are poor.

705
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: And I was not like that. I was a middle.

706
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 5: Class, college educated white girl from the suburbs, and it

707
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 5: happened to me, And so in a way, I was

708
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 5: like proof that there was something wrong with the system exactly.

709
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 5: And it wasn't just an Italian problem. This was a

710
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 5: global problem. And the ways that I was wrongly convicted

711
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 5: are ways that we wrongly convict people here in the

712
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 5: United States. And once that became clear to me, I

713
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 5: was like, I have to say something. And a lot

714
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 5: of people ask me, like, why don't you become a

715
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 5: lawyer or whatever, and it's like I could go to

716
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 5: the rest of my life without ever going into a courtroom.

717
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 3: Ember again, that's that.

718
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 5: But I am a writer and I am a storyteller,

719
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 5: and this is my skill set, and so I can

720
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 5: take what I know now about what happened to me

721
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 5: and what happened to other people, and I can share

722
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 5: it with an audience who wouldn't otherwise think that any

723
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 5: of this would be relevant to them. And that's really

724
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 5: important to me, and it's and it's made it's made

725
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 5: me feel purposeful all over again.

726
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm a translator all over again.

727
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 5: Right, I'm not translating language, I'm translating experience, it feels like.

728
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 4: But it's so great too. I mean, just the awareness,

729
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 4: because like you said, how do you not know about this?

730
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 4: None of us do. People There isn't enough awareness. And

731
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: also just the connection that you're talking about of you know,

732
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: when you went to that day that your mom brought

733
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 4: you to the conference and met other people.

734
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 3: It's unbelievable. It's almost like kis men.

735
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, it's meant to be because now you're right,

736
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 6: you're translating your experience to regular people who are turning

737
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 6: on their TV to watch a television show, and maybe

738
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 6: they're going to be open, their eyes will be open.

739
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 6: Like like you said, this can happen to anyone, you know,

740
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 6: even here in the United States, and in fact a

741
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 6: lot of the times here in the United States. So

742
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 6: kudos to you. Congratulations on that. That's fabulous. Thanks, you're welcome.

743
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 2: I know we're reading low on time, so yeah, mean's

744
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 2: going to take us out. But this is there one

745
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 2: tip we all want to know. What's the one thing

746
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: to anybody who wants to go to a different country

747
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: as a young person to explore the world.

748
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: I know where your embassy is. What is the I lay?

749
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 5: So here's the thing like to the state, it haunts me.

750
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 5: How you know, Meredith did everything right right, Like she

751
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 5: never went out alone at night, She called her parents

752
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 5: every single day, and even so this happened to her.

753
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 5: That isn't to say that you shouldn't go study abroad

754
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 5: like everyone of course study abroad like it's a beautiful

755
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 5: experience and it's very life affirming. But at the same time,

756
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 5: you should know that you are vulnerable, just like we

757
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 5: all are in the world. And so when something feels off,

758
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 5: when you don't feel safe, don't ignore that feeling, like

759
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 5: always asking and to ask for help and trust your

760
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 5: gut and hope for the best.

761
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 4: Well, that's advice everyone can use in pretty much every

762
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 4: aspect of life. Amanda, we thank you so so much

763
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 4: for joining us tonight. It is such a great pleasure

764
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 4: and honor and we've been so excited everyone. Amanda is

765
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 4: the executive producer of The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox.

766
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: It is streaming now on Hulu. Watch it. You will

767
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 3: love it.

768
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: It's almost a guarantee. Amanda is also the host of

769
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 4: the Hard Knocks podcast and the author of Free My

770
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 4: Search for Meaning. So one more thank you for your advice, h.

771
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: Stick around true grand tonight.

772
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeart Radio. Man,

773
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 2: we are talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie

774
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: Leidecker and I head of KT Studios where we make

775
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 2: true crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get to be

776
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong and Body Moven And if you're

777
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 2: not feeling inspired, then come on, what more do you need?

778
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: It's so telling, you know, again, Amanda Knox here to

779
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: confirm that extraordinary humans often are built from really tough times,

780
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 2: and boy does she walk the talk.

781
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, and her message could not come at a better time,

782
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 6: Like the whole thing about empathy and the boundaries you

783
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 6: can still you know, have empathy for people and hear

784
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 6: them out like this is what we need to hear

785
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 6: right now in my opinion, Like it's just so timely.

786
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 6: And you know, I am inspired one hundred million percent, no,

787
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 6: no bs, I am.

788
00:41:58,560 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: I feel good.

789
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: It's so interest soon you say that, because yeah, at

790
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 2: this time, more than ever. I love also said that, like,

791
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: you know, both things can be We talk about this

792
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: a lot. Both things can be true, Like you can

793
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: be mad about something or you've been victimized by something,

794
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: and at the same time, parallel, you're still able to

795
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 2: put yourself in somebody else's shoes and try to imagine

796
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: their perspective as a human.

797
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean that's that's the real deal, geez, the

798
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 3: real deal.

799
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 2: Well is well, thank you again, Amanda Knox for joining

800
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 2: us tonight. If you haven't watched her Hulu series, The

801
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: Twisted Tail of Amanda Knox, please do what a great

802
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: setup you just got and listen.

803
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 3: We still have like a half a night left of seat.

804
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: Tadline, so come on, you know, please call us eight a'

805
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: eight three one crime if you want to join the

806
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: conversation or leave us a talk back. We love to

807
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: get those, or you can always hit us up in

808
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 2: our socials at True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram and Facebook,

809
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 2: or at True Crime Tonight.

810
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 3: I think I confuse those cares right, too many.

811
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: Too many, too many, So listen, let's get back to

812
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: the basics here. A little bro Coburger update, no Frank Coburger. Well,

813
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 2: you know, there's not really a big update. It's just

814
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: that the investigation. So remember the video that came out

815
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: of him in prison, of course, yes, of course, washing

816
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: like the walking and.

817
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 6: Yeah, looking at the TV in that little cage and

818
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 6: he's just kind of an awkward and there's we kind

819
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 6: of realized it was like in this medical housing unit

820
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 6: prior to him getting his assignment in the J block

821
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 6: where he's at now with Chad Daboll. You know and everything. Well,

822
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 6: they're still investigating. They're still investigating how this video made

823
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 6: it out, and there's been no updates. And that's the update.

824
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 6: There's no updates.

825
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 2: It's a very big seale to have sort of inside

826
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: from prison video being leaked, right, it does break a

827
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: lot of laws, and it also lends itself to a

828
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: lack of security, and and and so I'm surprised there

829
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: hasn't been more more done in that category.

830
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 6: The Itea Department of Corrections, the officials they have confirmed

831
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 6: it's authentic, so it's definitely from that prison, because remember

832
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 6: initially we didn't know if it was like from Pennsylvania

833
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 6: or if it was you know, in Moscow or Ada

834
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 6: County jail. Very quickly though, those county jails and whatnot

835
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 6: said oh, it's not us, it's not us, that's not

836
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 6: our prison, that's not our jail. So the Idaho Department

837
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 6: of Correction officials have confirmed that it's authentic and it's

838
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 6: from their prison. But they have dismissed a speculation that

839
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 6: it might be fake or you know, AI generated. Remember

840
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 6: the speculation, Oh it's probably AI, it's probably I know

841
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 6: it's real, But there's no update.

842
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 3: That's that's yep, well, but it does.

843
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 4: It harkened back to it's going to be Amanda Knox

844
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 4: all night long for me anyway, But I know to

845
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 4: what happened. And this isn't spoiler because it's been out,

846
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 4: But in the scripted series, you see when Amanda and

847
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 4: her then boyfriend are in prison and there's people from

848
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 4: all ends who are trying to get any frum of

849
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 4: information or picture or video and just going to get

850
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 4: notoriety and putting it out. So with someone like Brian Colberger,

851
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 4: you could imagine that there's many people there who want

852
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 4: any kind of information on him to share with the world.

853
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 2: And they probably get paid top dollar to do so, right,

854
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 2: so you can sell that footage pretty quickly, I say, yuck.

855
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: I'm still kind of curious though about the weird red

856
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: hands that he had. And by the way, if you're

857
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: just joining us, we're talking about Brian Coburger.

858
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 3: He is now serving time.

859
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 2: Forever till his end of days behind bars forever for

860
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 2: the murder of four incredible college students in Idaho.

861
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 3: He has accepted guilt and.

862
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 2: His hands in this particular video are very red and

863
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 2: we assume it's from excessive hand washing because he does

864
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: have a bit of an OCD thing. So hopefully you know,

865
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger is still having a tough time getting along

866
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: with others because the last we heard, he was getting

867
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: tons of stuff.

868
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 6: Right, So listen, can we take a moment and just

869
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 6: kind of make a Brian goerger a little bit?

870
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 3: Are you guys okay with that?

871
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: I don't find anything about him that's fun.

872
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 4: I'm still feeling pious from the presence of amand an ox,

873
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 4: and I'm actually.

874
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: Not even being facetious.

875
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 4: I'm like filled with goodwill towards humanity and keeping boundaries.

876
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 3: You can do it both that she said. But here's

877
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 3: a story.

878
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, there was a man who was wrongfully imprisoned

879
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 4: for twenty seven years. His name is Brian Hooper Senior,

880
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 4: and he was exonerated and he has been freed. So

881
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 4: it happened for him after a very long time. So

882
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 4: a key witness against him spent all this time racked

883
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 4: with guilt and ultimately confessed to committing this murder that

884
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 4: happened in nineteen ninety eight. A woman named Anne Prasniak

885
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 4: was murdered. She was seventy seven years old, and Brian

886
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 4: Hooper Senior, who is now innocent and walking free, and

887
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 4: has been innocent the whole time he was in prison

888
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 4: based on incentivized testimony of several people, including Sheilaka Young

889
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 4: and for other witnesses, and despite the absence of any

890
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 4: physical evidence directly linking him to the murder. Since he

891
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 4: was innocent, he was incarcerated for two and a half decades.

892
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 4: But again, oh god, yeah, but he walks free.

893
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 3: Well, this is kind of in the same vein run.

894
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, now it makes sense at Courtney didn't

895
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: want to talk about Brian Colberger. Yeah, no, I do

896
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 2: not want to talk about Brian Coberger for one second time.

897
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 3: I ten years by Courtney Armstrong.

898
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: Fair enough, Okay, it all tracks now makes total sense

899
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 2: by the way I would be I don't.

900
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 3: Know that I would.

901
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: Be cool twenty five years. You stolen my life for

902
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: a crime I did not commit. Prison is no fun, horrible,

903
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: harrowing circumstances. And then to walk free when you've lost

904
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 2: loved ones, you've lost your job, you didn't have opportunities.

905
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I see people who come out.

906
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 2: And they are so beautifully empathetic and compassionate and fined forgiveness.

907
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: And it is jaw dropping, and I would hope that

908
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: I am capable of that, but I don't know. Putting

909
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 2: myself in there choos it would be hard.

910
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 3: It would be hard for me. But I have to say.

911
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 4: The woman I mentioned, or the person I mentioned rather,

912
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,439
Speaker 4: Sheilaki Young. They were serving time in Georgia and wrote

913
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 4: a spontaneous handwritten confession and admitted that she alone was

914
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 4: the one who killed this woman and thusly framed Hooper.

915
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 4: So yeah, so after all this time, she said she

916
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 4: was soul sick. She expressed really deep remorse, and she

917
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 4: gave this confession to law enforcement, to a chaplain, and

918
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 4: to family in recorded calls. So something changed in her

919
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 4: or she wanted to unsick her soul, which you know,

920
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 4: I think we've all done things not to this benefit,

921
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 4: but you just feel sick. I've never heard that expression before.

922
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 4: Did I wonder did they just take that at face value?

923
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 4: I wonder, like, I don't know if we had this

924
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 4: information or not, but or was there evidence to go

925
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 4: along with that? Well what happened because the evidence it

926
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 4: was based on really five people saying he did it.

927
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 4: There was nothing physical. So since there was no benefit

928
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 4: for this woman to gain. Her confession was deemed credible,

929
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 4: it was deemed consistent, and both the prosecutors and of

930
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 4: course Hooper's defense, they agreed it proved his innocence, and

931
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 4: a judge vacated the conviction. He said it was false

932
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 4: evidence that misled the jury, and he was released the next.

933
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 3: Day, the next day, the next day, he.

934
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 4: Was released the next day, and right now guess where

935
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 4: he is. He is living with his children in the

936
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 4: Twin Cities. He is working on rebuilding his life.

937
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 2: So you know, we also, I mean again, I'm always

938
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: quoting Shawshank redemption for some reason.

939
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: I don't know why, but you know, somehow for I

940
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 3: really did change my data. It is a good one.

941
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 3: It's important. It's a good one.

942
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: Hard one, right, but I would imagine that transition after

943
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 2: prison after all of those years is a really tough

944
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: one too. So lucky he had kids to go back

945
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: to and open arms. You know, She's so right, Amanda

946
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: Knox again saying that just knowing that somebody thinks that

947
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: you matter, and that you matter to someone that was

948
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: so important.

949
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 6: And she's right, Like the people that she was in

950
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 6: prison with, they felt maybe they didn't matter. That came

951
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 6: maybe from you know, abuse or addiction or you know,

952
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 6: a strange family and but not her right, and so

953
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 6: she had this strength that was instilled in her from

954
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 6: her mother growing up and just provided with love. And oftentimes,

955
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 6: you know, we I do, at least, you know, get

956
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 6: in my feels a little bit and have little pity parties.

957
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 3: I mean, doesn't good one Like yeah, I am.

958
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 6: A pity party queen. Okay, Like yeah, poor me, you

959
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 6: know you or you know me? And just hearing her

960
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 6: say that, just my mom loved me like so much,

961
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 6: and I just that meant a lot to me. I

962
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 6: don't know, it just made me feel a certain type

963
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 6: of way.

964
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: And we should all be mindful of that even at

965
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 2: this time, Like yeah, like give somebody that one weird

966
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 2: hug or just remind people that they matter. And again,

967
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: anyone listening you matter to us.

968
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 8: Know that.

969
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 4: Really, I honestly, I'm going to check in and see

970
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 4: if I actually do this and take this moment of inspiration.

971
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 4: But you know, there is a woman who very kindly

972
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 4: makes my obscenely huge iced coffee when I go to

973
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 4: get it at the store, and she's so nice and

974
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 4: you know, we chat.

975
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 3: I just wanted to do it all day. I just

976
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 3: want to be literally all day. She made hours straight.

977
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 3: I should tell this person so she can just hear it. Listen.

978
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 3: It don matter to me to see people every day.

979
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, So if you have anyone you look forward

980
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 4: to seeing, let us know who they are.

981
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 3: Give a shout out.

982
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 4: We're at your crimbs tonight eighty eight three one crime.

983
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 4: We'd love to hear inspiring stories, crime stories, whatever you got.

984
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: And Stephanie, yes, you know it made me think even

985
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: as she was talking, and of course I didn't want

986
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: to say it then. But who's your emergency contact number?

987
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 2: When you're asked? You have one phone call and you

988
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: don't have to say it here unless you want to.

989
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: But like that's a big piece of it too, Like.

990
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 2: Even knowing that you have somebody that will pick up

991
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: the phone, come hell or high water, in the darkens

992
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 2: of circumstances, who will stand behind you no matter what.

993
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 6: If you have one person and that will tell you

994
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 6: that for you can't tell you what that means honestly.

995
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 6: I mean, I know that sounds silly, but as somebody

996
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 6: who's chronically alone, it does mean a lot. I do

997
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 6: have an emergency contact. She means the world to me,

998
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 6: and just to have her in my phone is my ice.

999
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 6: You know, my es emergency. It means a lot, and

1000
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 6: she knows she is. She's listening.

1001
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 4: Well, I will, actually, I will say mine. It's Amy Lynn,

1002
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 4: my best friend since the very first day of moving

1003
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 4: into college. No two people have been more different on

1004
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 4: this planet, and no two people are more aligned. And

1005
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 4: I took a picture when we had the fires in

1006
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 4: Los Angeles. It was very scary. I was incredibly lucky.

1007
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 4: I just didn't know that the story was going to

1008
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 4: play out that way. And I just I wrote down

1009
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 4: because none of us remember phone numbers anymore. And I

1010
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 4: just wrote down on a stick on a sticky that's

1011
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 4: still in my wallet.

1012
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 3: My mother, my in law, and Amy Lynn. So that's

1013
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: God bless Amy Lynn. You know that's it.

1014
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: Your mother would bail you out of just about anything sured.

1015
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 3: But it's a good point.

1016
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 2: By the way, another little practical piece of takeaway is

1017
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: your right Courtney Armstrong. Nobody knows their numbers of anybody,

1018
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 2: and you should memorize your emergency contact number or a

1019
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 2: couple of your buds because imagine being in a heroin

1020
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: situation and you're like I don't have access to a phone.

1021
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 3: You get one phone call and you have no idea

1022
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 3: what the digits are.

1023
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's my big concern for me. I don't I

1024
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 9: use my cell phone for everything, and I don't know

1025
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 9: numbers by memory anymore. So that's a good tip for

1026
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 9: for everyone to have and like to have one relative

1027
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 9: that I have as my emergency contact. But my concern

1028
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 9: is they never seem to pick up when I call, so.

1029
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: A little bit.

1030
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, well it would be you calling a hospital or jail,

1031
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 6: God forbid, you know.

1032
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 2: Nobody ever picks up and those that's like, oh, straight

1033
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 2: to voicemail.

1034
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. That's my concern. I think I might have

1035
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:23,919
Speaker 3: to rethink the people I have right now.

1036
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, Stephanie, do you have someone you have? Lovely people?

1037
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 4: Listen you you get back what you put in. And

1038
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 4: Stephanie Ledecker is definitely proof of that because she has

1039
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 4: really really great, freaking people in her life. I can

1040
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 4: say that plainly, but yeah, does it without even saying

1041
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 4: the name was?

1042
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 2: Of course, No, it's in my mom because she sort

1043
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 2: of will she will always answer and then I and yeah,

1044
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: she will listen. I one time went to Paris by

1045
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: myself and didn't tell anybody I was going. And when

1046
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: I showed up in my hotel room, the phone was

1047
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 2: ringing in hand to it, hand to god, it.

1048
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 3: Was my mother. Wow, how does so? That's why she's

1049
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 3: my emergency contact.

1050
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 2: And at least she could get me to my brothers

1051
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 2: who would then come in and save the day. But

1052
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: I do have a very small circle, but they're diehard.

1053
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 9: Wo that nice?

1054
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 3: May we all be so lucky? Listen, stay with us.

1055
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 4: Coming up, we have Oh we have a really shocking

1056
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 4: pattern emerging in Colorado funeral homes. Oh boy, yeah, this

1057
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 4: is quite a story. Keep it here True Crime Tonight

1058
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 4: and give us a call eighty to eighty three one crime.

1059
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 3: We want to talk to you.

1060
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1061
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course,

1062
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and body move in and Boddy. You

1063
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 2: have breaking news happening right now. What's going on, very breaking,

1064
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 2: So get this okay, Travis Decker. Remember he is the

1065
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 2: man that is accused of his three young daughters back

1066
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 2: in June, and then he's been evading law enforcement since. Well,

1067
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 2: there's breaking news human remains believed to be him have

1068
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 2: been found.

1069
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 6: The quote is positive. Identification has not yet been confirmed.

1070
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 6: Preliminary findings suggest the remains belong to Dravistecker. The Sheriff's

1071
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 6: office said, So, we're going to keep following this and

1072
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 6: hopefully we'll get some confirmation hopefully it is him, and

1073
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 6: hopefully maybe they'll get some answers with this.

1074
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 3: But I don't know, but yeah, and just.

1075
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 4: End, I mean this man hunt and the many multiple

1076
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 4: people and agencies that have been working oh tirelessly.

1077
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, So hopefully.

1078
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 6: We're going to keep following this and hopefully maybe we'll

1079
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 6: have an update, you know, later in the show. I'm

1080
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 6: not sure, but from what I understand though, we have

1081
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 6: our associate producer Ava on the line. Yes, she's going

1082
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 6: to be giving us an update on the case that

1083
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 6: she's been following.

1084
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 10: Ava.

1085
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: Are you there?

1086
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hi, guys, listen, Ava Kaplan keeps us all in

1087
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 2: line during the days. We're keeping her up relate because

1088
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 2: she's on the early shift. So Ava tell us everything.

1089
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 3: Hi, guys.

1090
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, going after Amanda Knox as yeah,

1091
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 8: is literally like being at the talent show and like

1092
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 8: Yanse is in front of me, and then I go

1093
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 8: and I'm doing like my magic trick or something.

1094
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 6: Listen, you are blue ivy Okay, you are that Ava kaplan.

1095
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 2: You come out there in the pants and you give

1096
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 2: it a good blue ivy stress.

1097
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 8: Okay, thank you, buddy. That means a lot to me.

1098
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 8: I mean, speaking of human remains, there is a crazy

1099
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 8: story coming out of Colorado that I want to talk

1100
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 8: to you guys about. Tell right, Okay, So get this,

1101
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 8: not one, but two Colorado's funeral homes have been at

1102
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 8: the center of corpse abuse scandals in the past several years.

1103
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 8: And in one of them. So there's a funeral home

1104
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 8: called quote return to Nature funeral home. This is in

1105
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 8: a town of Colorado called Penrods. I know, right, hate it.

1106
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 8: Two hundred decomposing bodies were discovered just like on the

1107
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 8: ground this one funeral home.

1108
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 3: What isn't that crazy? Do you mean like return to Nature?

1109
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 3: That's not actually so surprising?

1110
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 2: Well, literally, hold up, Ava, So it's a funeral home.

1111
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 2: At a funeral home, obviously you have the bodies and

1112
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 2: then you bury the bodies or you exhume the you

1113
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 2: cremate the body. They weren't doing that.

1114
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 8: They weren't doing that and instead of cremating the bodies

1115
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 8: like the family thought, they were just kind of like

1116
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 8: burying them around the property. And instead of giving the

1117
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 8: family their ashes, they were giving them what authorities believe

1118
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 8: was actually just dry cement. And oh, I know, it's crazy,

1119
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 8: and family started kind of being suspicious because imagine you're

1120
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 8: brinkling your father's ashes in the pond that's where you

1121
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 8: grow up, and instead of the kind of just like scattering,

1122
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 8: they start to harden. Well, apparently human remains are not

1123
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 8: supposed to harden, but something like dry cement does, so

1124
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 8: they were kind of reacting with water and with the

1125
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 8: elements and in the way that ashes should. So that

1126
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 8: was one major red flag. And another one was obviously

1127
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 8: the massive smell, which is what eventually triggered the search

1128
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 8: warrant that searched the property and found that there were

1129
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 8: these hundreds of bodies on the property.

1130
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 3: Terrible family, So sick. What a bunch of sickos? Again,

1131
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 3: that is not okay.

1132
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 8: Wod it's so beyond sick, and it would be crazy

1133
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 8: if it was just one situation. But okay, that's the

1134
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 8: most extreme one. Almost two hundred bodies. This is in

1135
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 8: twenty twenty three, but literally just this year twenty twenty five,

1136
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 8: another one. Authorities were like doing an inspection of another

1137
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 8: funeral home in Colorado twenty decomposing bodies just behind a

1138
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 8: secret door in a funeral home they found, and some

1139
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 8: of them the funeral home director admitted he has been

1140
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 8: storing in there for almost fifteen years.

1141
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, why why is he's storing the bodies in

1142
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: the secret room for fifteen years?

1143
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 8: That's a million dollar question. My understanding of first of all,

1144
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 8: why this is happening only in Colorado or maybe more

1145
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 8: in Colorado, is they have all these loopholes. Every state

1146
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 8: is supposed to have regulations. I looked into it. I

1147
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 8: learned that in Colorado you don't need to have any

1148
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 8: sort of license or qualifications to run a funeral home.

1149
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 3: You just have Tom are you kidding me? That'd serious.

1150
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 8: So you can just be like, Okay, I'm opening my

1151
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 8: funeral home now, no degree, no course, you can just

1152
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 8: do it. And because of all these scandals, it's starting

1153
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 8: to change and they're starting to kind of ramp up

1154
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 8: because apparently this is like a widespread pattern where people

1155
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 8: are opening up funeral homes and then just storing the

1156
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 8: bodies and then giving people fake ashes.

1157
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 3: And by the way, this is a very expensive process.

1158
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 2: If anybody's had to lay someone to rest, it is

1159
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 2: really expensive. It's costly, it's emotional. You're at such a

1160
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 2: vulnerable time, so you go to a funeral home, probably

1161
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: for the first time in crisis, right when you're completely grieving,

1162
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: and yeah, ticket, there's like prices everywhere, and you're you know,

1163
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: you don't want your loved one not to have everything

1164
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 2: so chick ching. You know, it's a real process. The

1165
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 2: fact that they're taking advantage of mourning human is so

1166
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 2: next level that I can't even imagine.

1167
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, and there's two more cases, just real quick. Similar

1168
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 8: also in Colorado, also in the past five years. One

1169
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 8: twenty twenty two Brand Junction, Colorado owners were convicted of

1170
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 8: selling body parts and then giving cimestick ashes. And then

1171
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 8: in another case in suburban Denver, a woman's body was

1172
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 8: found in the back of a heart where the funeral

1173
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 8: home had left it for over a year. And then

1174
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 8: in the same funeral home director's house, thirty sets of

1175
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 8: cremated remains were found dashed just throughout his house.

1176
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 4: This is insane, eva, it is so everyone we're all

1177
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 4: like gods back puzzled.

1178
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 3: Any what a weird thing to do too?

1179
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 4: And how do you not think through It's like, I'm

1180
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 4: going to open a funeral home. Isn't the next thought?

1181
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 4: What am I actually going to do with these bodies

1182
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 4: that will be arriving at my door? I mean, the answer, Colorado,

1183
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 4: the answer isn't go chill it don't chill in my

1184
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 4: backyard where it is not temperature controlled.

1185
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 3: Oh my, I have a question for the room though.

1186
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 2: So again, so they're taking the bodies and then they're

1187
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: giving fake ashes. So the understanding from the families are

1188
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 2: that their bodies are being cremated, not buried, because if

1189
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: they were being buried, they would probably witness that process.

1190
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 2: Why it's like it seems like it why keep the bodies?

1191
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 3: It's really easier to Yeah.

1192
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 8: I think that maybe it's an expensive process because they're

1193
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 8: like supposed to be sending out these bodies to be cremated,

1194
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 8: and they're giving like fake certifications of like I'm sending

1195
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 8: them out to be cremated. So maybe they just don't

1196
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 8: want to pay for the process, so they're just taking

1197
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 8: these poor people's money and then just putting their bodies

1198
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 8: in a secret door and then giving them cement and

1199
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 8: making a buck.

1200
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 3: That's my guess. But I don't know what a lame moved.

1201
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 3: I mean, Amanda Knox would not stand for that. No,

1202
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 3: she wouldn't.

1203
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 6: I When my mom passed, you know, her wish was

1204
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 6: to be cremated, and I can't tell you how comforting

1205
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 6: it was to me when I was able to go

1206
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 6: get her pick up her ashes and the urn and

1207
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 6: all that you know in those certificate and everything I needed,

1208
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 6: and it still sits right next to me over here,

1209
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 6: like literally on my desk, and like, I just cannot

1210
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 6: imagine these poor families who think that, you know what

1211
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 6: I mean.

1212
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 3: Like crying to concrete. I confessing to concrete.

1213
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 6: I used some of my mom's ashes in this tattoo.

1214
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 6: It's in the emerald on my arm that's her burstone,

1215
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 6: and they use some of her ashes in the ink. Listen,

1216
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 6: I'm just saying, I can't tell you that the amount

1217
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 6: of peace that that gave me, it's like it's like

1218
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 6: a healing thing, right like, because I don't have a

1219
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 6: headstone to go to, so I just kind of look

1220
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 6: at my emerald on my tattoo and you know I

1221
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 6: that's my mom. You know these people, they're going to

1222
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 6: be prosecuted. I would imagine and hope you spend a

1223
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 6: lot of time in jail. I mean, this is horrible.

1224
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 3: This is actually really interesting.

1225
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 8: It speaks exactly what you're saying, because these families are

1226
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 8: so mad that for a judge who was in charge

1227
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 8: of prosecuting the case where it was the almost two

1228
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 8: hundred bodies, has rejected a plea deal from the guy

1229
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 8: who was giving it good and he said that it

1230
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 8: was the first time, like as a judge that he's

1231
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 8: ever rejected a plea deal because the families worth like

1232
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 8: this is unacceptable. But like, and it's two hundred people,

1233
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 8: so you can imagine the sheer volume of family members

1234
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 8: who've been Oh.

1235
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 3: My god, it's beyond it's enraging.

1236
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 2: I feel enraged right now, honestly, Like, let me add them.

1237
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 2: That's just like again, kicking somebody at their lowest time

1238
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: when it's their most difficult moment.

1239
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 3: That, yeah, let them let them.

1240
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 8: It's crazy. So this is the one in the two

1241
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 8: hundred bodies. His name is John Halford and and his

1242
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 8: wife they own this place together. And a jury trial

1243
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 8: for John Halford is scheduled for February ninth of twenty

1244
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 8: twenty six, So.

1245
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 3: We'll put that on the calendar.

1246
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 8: We'll put that on the calendar because it's expected to

1247
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 8: last a month or longer.

1248
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 11: Because it's the sheer volume.

1249
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 3: God, it is crazy.

1250
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 8: A month or longer.

1251
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 3: I just want to like, eat up Aby. How great

1252
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 3: is She's like, get this? This is what we hear

1253
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 3: in the day. You get this.

1254
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 2: It's crazy. And it, by the way, it always is.

1255
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 2: It actually always tracks.

1256
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 8: You know.

1257
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 2: When you say that, I like I lean in and

1258
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 2: I sit up because you know what it's going to

1259
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 2: be a lot of crazy, really crazy.

1260
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 3: Yes, that's you did it again, kid, you did it again.

1261
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 3: Well done, well done.

1262
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 8: I mean hopefully there's a change. I've actually looked it

1263
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 8: up and in twenty twenty six, twenty seven, a whole

1264
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 8: new slew of regulations is coming to Colorado because, as

1265
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 8: you can see, in the past five years has done

1266
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 8: like multiple crazy scandals.

1267
01:05:55,640 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 2: That's yeah, get us your soul felt yeah, with the

1268
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 2: great Courtney Armstrong sick in the.

1269
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 4: Soul seriously, and the trial honestly, I actually had just

1270
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 4: flashed to it and that would be like I hope

1271
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 4: hell for these people to watch the parade of two

1272
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 4: hundred family members say this is how you impacted my

1273
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 4: life and what you did to my mother, sister, father,

1274
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 4: and boyfriend uncle.

1275
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 2: Can I have a request? Can we go back after

1276
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 2: this soul secting story, back to the Brian Coburger pictures,

1277
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 2: so body and I can have a giggle about them.

1278
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 3: Like, can we just lighten the vibe because that is yeah, yeah,

1279
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 3: like these pictures. Have you guys seen these selfies?

1280
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 6: You guys when I was on vacation, these selfies are

1281
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 6: released right, so I didn't get a chance to gossip

1282
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 6: about them. And I've been back a week now. This

1283
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 6: is my fourth day back or no fifth day back.

1284
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 6: This is our Friday.

1285
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 3: I forgot about it Friday.

1286
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 6: And I finally I want to make fun of him.

1287
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 6: I've been dying to make fun of him over these pictures.

1288
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 6: Can we take him minute?

1289
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 4: Yes? And I think actually that even audience members were

1290
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 4: prepared because really have a talk back.

1291
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 3: Taha is motioning wildly about so what is he raising

1292
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 3: his hands over just on tire? What just happened you?

1293
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 9: No, I just wouldn't let you know that a lot

1294
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 9: of people have been asking as a fact that we

1295
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 9: got to talk back, so I was gonna.

1296
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 3: I didn't know everyone, let's listen to that one. Let's

1297
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 3: do it. Oh shoot.

1298
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 10: In my opinion, I feel like Bryan's looks the selfie

1299
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 10: to try and show that he lives in active lifestyle

1300
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 10: and to also get authorities to possibly not look his

1301
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 10: way when it comes to the case.

1302
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 6: Yes, So I think there's two categories of selfies, right,

1303
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 6: there's pre murder selfies and post murder selfies. Yeah, right,

1304
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 6: and the pre murder selfies our talkback is right, like

1305
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 6: they're all of him hiking, trying on different clothes. There's

1306
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 6: you know that one that we've already seen of him

1307
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 6: kind of taking a picture of his little rear end

1308
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 6: in the mirror well and holding up pictures of his

1309
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 6: the handwriting, says Brian C. Coberger August seventeenth, with that code. Well,

1310
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 6: apparently that's something for class, some sort of verification for

1311
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 6: class uploads. But a majority of them are of him hiking,

1312
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 6: and to me, he's it's almost like he's trying to

1313
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 6: look normal.

1314
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 3: It sounds like he's trying to get his hinge profile

1315
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 3: in order.

1316
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I thought I was just the same photos

1317
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 2: for a dating app.

1318
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 6: Yesicly, it looks very much like he's taking these selfies

1319
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 6: for a dating app. Like now, if you guys go

1320
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 6: on a dating app, go look, they all look like this. Well,

1321
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 6: and I don't look like bran Coberger, but they're posed

1322
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 6: like this.

1323
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 3: Right.

1324
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 6: It's almost like he's kind of getting ready to maybe

1325
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 6: go and create some kind of profile.

1326
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 3: You know, it is very interesting. We have to a

1327
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 3: shout out, yeah, it's so scary.

1328
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 6: And then there's the post murder selfies, and of course

1329
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 6: the first one we've seen a lot, but now we

1330
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 6: have it in very clear detail of him the day

1331
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 6: on November thirteenth of twenty twenty two, the thumbs up shower,

1332
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 6: the one in front of the shower. It's clear at

1333
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 6: day and you can clearly see this band aid on

1334
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 6: his finger. You can clearly see it. I mean, it's

1335
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 6: the clarity on these pictures are phenomenal. So we have

1336
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 6: we have that, and then we have interested really okay,

1337
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 6: there's so many selfies of him holding his hair back,

1338
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 6: I know, like kind of slicked back. I don't know

1339
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 6: a lot of I did a little bit of research

1340
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 6: and a lot of people are saying he's trying to

1341
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 6: look like Patrick Bateman from American samar.

1342
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 3: That what people are saying, no.

1343
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: Because he does look like him quite a bit, and

1344
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 2: it does sort of track.

1345
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 6: And then you guys, these ones are even creepier. There's

1346
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 6: like three or four of him shirtless. One of them

1347
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 6: is in his home in Pullman, and then three or

1348
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 6: four of them are in his mother's kitchen and he's shirtless,

1349
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 6: and he's posing, he's flexing, and he's and these are

1350
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 6: all after the murder.

1351
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 3: Almost saluting in one of them in saluting. Listen, he's

1352
01:09:58,240 --> 01:09:58,679
Speaker 3: a goober.

1353
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 8: The pictures like I was like trying to have a

1354
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 8: peaceful night. I opened my phone. Broom, it's Brian Colberger

1355
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 8: like terrifying, britty faith.

1356
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah with that, Yeah, no, no warning.

1357
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 8: Scary body. You did not you needed to.

1358
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 3: Do, like I'm sorry, my gosh. Listen, stick around.

1359
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 4: We've got more to dig into, and we will also

1360
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 4: be hearing from you. Keep it here True Crime Tonight,

1361
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,679
Speaker 4: where we're talking true crime all the time.

1362
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We're

1363
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. By the way, this

1364
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 2: has been in a wild night and it continues because

1365
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 2: we also have breaking news. You will remember TAHA was

1366
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: covering a story about the singer David, who was on

1367
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 2: tour doing a concert.

1368
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,600
Speaker 3: His Seattle concert was canceled.

1369
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 2: Last night because there had been a fifteen year old

1370
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 2: girl found decomposing in the trunk of his tesla. It

1371
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 2: was impounded and authorities were suggesting that perhaps maybe it

1372
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,719
Speaker 2: had been there for almost a month. And we now

1373
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 2: know her name and that she was a missing girl

1374
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 2: since she was thirteen years old. So that was a

1375
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 2: tough tale even last night. And now there's brand new

1376
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 2: information breaking as we're on the air.

1377
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, so the police have basically raided his home. This

1378
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 6: is the synopsis of it all. Kind of doing this

1379
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,679
Speaker 6: ad lib right now. So singer David's home was thoroughly

1380
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 6: searched by the Los Angeles Police Department Homicide Unit and

1381
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 6: Wednesday evening. So last night as they tried to connect Celestieva,

1382
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 6: she's the victim, she's the little girl. Basically she's fifteen. Finally,

1383
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 6: the little girl who was found in his tesla trunk, right,

1384
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 6: they're trying to connect her to the property and the singer.

1385
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 6: So she was fifteen. She was identified Wednesday as the

1386
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 6: victim who were were found inside that tesla on September eighth.

1387
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,719
Speaker 6: TMZ actually told Banfield just now that police were looking

1388
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 6: for anything resembling blood evidence, and this is a quote.

1389
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 3: This is a quote.

1390
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,120
Speaker 6: They were checking drains to see if there was any

1391
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 6: blood evidence or any blood or tissue that was in

1392
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 6: the drains there. So they did a scouring of his

1393
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 6: house looking for any evidence. Police told TMZ that the

1394
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 6: home was about a block a block and a half

1395
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 6: from where the Tesla was parked before it was told

1396
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 6: so it was just down the.

1397
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,879
Speaker 3: Street in this house. What is dummy?

1398
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 2: What is he thinking? And by the way, what's that

1399
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 2: age difference? That's a very sixth okay age difference when

1400
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,679
Speaker 2: they met he was eighteen and she was thirteen.

1401
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 3: That's still weird to me. Of course it is still illegal.

1402
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 6: It's still yes, y, of course it is. So it's

1403
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 6: and he continued, he said, we know that tesla is his.

1404
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 6: The thing that's still not clear is who was actually

1405
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 6: driving that tesla round the body was placed in the car,

1406
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 6: and who parked it where it was eventually found and impounded.

1407
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 6: Those are the dots that still need to be connected.

1408
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 4: Well, has he I don't know if if this is

1409
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 4: out yet, body but has this turned officially to a

1410
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:18,440
Speaker 4: homicide and is he a suspect because earlier the autopsy

1411
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:22,640
Speaker 4: had not come out. Is it's not done, which, just

1412
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 4: to be clear, it has not been declared.

1413
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 2: He's a personal interest going through his house looking through

1414
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 2: history units, the homicide unit is right, So I mean,

1415
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 2: there's no other way for her to be.

1416
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 6: Really kind of in his trunk of course. Yeah, so

1417
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 6: I mean she didn't crawl in there herself. I can't,

1418
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, Like, I'm sure this is.

1419
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:42,880
Speaker 3: But I did.

1420
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 9: I was talking to someone else about this before if

1421
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 9: he if slightly giving the benefit of the doubt, Let's

1422
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 9: say imagine he's on tour. She's a part of his life.

1423
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 9: Could she have been staying there and his circle of

1424
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:56,639
Speaker 9: you know, music friends or all that or something else

1425
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 9: actually very true to could have been before we sort

1426
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 9: of go to him and.

1427
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,719
Speaker 6: Maybe it's just a coincidence that his hit is called

1428
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 6: like romantic homicide, right, Like, you know, there's just a

1429
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 6: lot of weird things, you know, and if you go

1430
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 6: and look at like all that digital I'm going to

1431
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 6: use air quotes evidence of their relationship. You know, there's

1432
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 6: photos of photo presumably her and him together throughout the

1433
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 6: last couple of years.

1434
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 3: Looks she's like her lyrics and songs unreleased.

1435
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 4: About the name Celeste, Yes, also let's not remember but

1436
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 4: also remember his You know, Celeste's mother who is desperately

1437
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 4: missing her daughter, and what a horrible day for her

1438
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:46,799
Speaker 4: to be facing the realization of what's really happened.

1439
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 2: She didn't have a good feeling about Celeste's boyfriend, whose

1440
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:59,480
Speaker 2: name just by coincidence also David. So again scenario tattoos

1441
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 2: that know, what are they so secretive about?

1442
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:01,679
Speaker 3: Again?

1443
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 2: I know it's a popular tattoo, but again, young girls,

1444
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 2: et cetera. And by the way, shout out to Harvey

1445
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 2: Levin and TMC really break in the story real time.

1446
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:13,719
Speaker 3: Absolutely is that crazy.

1447
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 8: I need to tell you guys. I was scrolling on

1448
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 8: Twitter earlier and I came across a David fan account

1449
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 8: that was like, at the end of the day, I

1450
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 8: will be rebranding. I do not condone murder. I sound

1451
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 8: like part of me was like, I just have to

1452
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,600
Speaker 8: last because the fact that a David fran account it

1453
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 8: is probably this poor, like thirteen year old girl who

1454
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 8: just like like your song and now she feels like

1455
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 8: she has to like make an official statement that she

1456
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:40,679
Speaker 8: does not condone murder. It's just so brutal. I feel

1457
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 8: so roud.

1458
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 4: For well, David has also had that that girl, that

1459
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 4: head of the fan club, whomever she is, and you

1460
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 4: are okay. This is not do you make your stamp,

1461
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 4: but you're okay. But brands have pulled back from David.

1462
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 4: I didn't realize he quite how popular his music had

1463
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 4: gotten something platinum.

1464
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, by the way, he's been on tour.

1465
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 2: So I actually like Tahas theory and I want to

1466
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 2: go with it because I do not believe, in my

1467
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 2: heart of hearts that any human could actually murder a girl,

1468
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 2: let her decompose in the trunk of your tesla for

1469
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 2: close to a month, knowing that her mother is missing

1470
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 2: her young, young daughter, and then go on tour and

1471
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 2: continue to perform. I find that hard to believe in

1472
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 2: close to impossible.

1473
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 3: And the car right near your house, like it just

1474
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 3: like how stupid could you be?

1475
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 4: Like Yeah, But also, guys, I mean if guilt or not,

1476
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 4: I don't care what you're doing. If someone calls, if

1477
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 4: the authorities call and say, hey, there's actually a body

1478
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 4: decomposing in a car that's actually registered to you, I

1479
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 4: think you go ahead and deal with it and put

1480
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,760
Speaker 4: what you're doing, put that tour on hold for a

1481
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,720
Speaker 4: moment that was a whatever the circumstances.

1482
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 3: I find that to be a very strange choice. Totally agree.

1483
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 2: But like Devil's advocate, so you have your whole career,

1484
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 2: this is your moment, lots of money on the line,

1485
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,639
Speaker 2: millions and millions of dollars, so you can actually go

1486
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 2: on tour.

1487
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 3: It's big business.

1488
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 2: And if you had nothing to do with something and

1489
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,639
Speaker 2: this crazy weird thing happened, Now that we know who

1490
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 2: she is and that she is for certain someone that

1491
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 2: he likely knows.

1492
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,879
Speaker 3: Well, that changes it. But maybe he didn't realize.

1493
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 2: Maybe he just thought his car got stolen and that

1494
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 2: a random person was found in his car.

1495
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 3: Why would he stop his tour? I don't, I don't know.

1496
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 3: It's complicated stuff.

1497
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, well the car was found before it got impounded

1498
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 6: a block and a block and a half away from

1499
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 6: his house.

1500
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 3: Though, I mean it was right.

1501
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 9: But that's what I mean, like, if he did that,

1502
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 9: why would you put the body there and leave the car?

1503
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 9: It seems it seems almost a little like maybe I.

1504
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 6: Mean, I don't think we're dealing with the smartest, you know,

1505
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:49,639
Speaker 6: the brightest bulbming.

1506
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 11: Okay, but this is my this is my question.

1507
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 8: How long has she been decomposing for? Like, are she's

1508
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 8: been dead since she went missing? Oh?

1509
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 3: Close to him?

1510
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 2: I had read reports that said close to a month. Yeah,

1511
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 2: but it was you know, like, who's to really say?

1512
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 2: And again, the autopsy results haven't been released yet and

1513
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 2: that does take a second, so there's no real cause

1514
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 2: of death in this exact moment, not yet.

1515
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 4: The authorities estimate that her body was placed in the

1516
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 4: trunk about five days before it was impounded, and of

1517
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 4: course it was then impounded for several days before it

1518
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:27,599
Speaker 4: was opened.

1519
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 6: God, okay, can I can I talk about the song

1520
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 6: really quick?

1521
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1522
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 3: Okay? So which which one the one that has her

1523
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 3: lyrics in it?

1524
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 8: So?

1525
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:36,719
Speaker 3: Ok yeah?

1526
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,840
Speaker 6: The track It was leaked on SoundCloud in December of

1527
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 6: twenty twenty three, Okay, and it's called Celeste Demo on

1528
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,839
Speaker 6: Thin Okay. So this is obviously prior to her death, okay,

1529
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:52,919
Speaker 6: long prior to her death. And the singer mentioned Celeste

1530
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 6: twice in the song, saying, oh Celeste, the girl with

1531
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 6: my name hat twoed on her chest, smell her on

1532
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 6: my clothes like cigarettes. I hear her voice each time

1533
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 6: I take a breath. I'm obsessed. And then, oh, Celeste,

1534
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 6: afraid you'll only love me when undressed. But you look

1535
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 6: so gorgeous in that dress. Missing you so much makes

1536
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 6: me depressed, But I digress. What these are stupid?

1537
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 3: This guy's are relinguist.

1538
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, yeah, I'm going to hope that Taha's

1539
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 2: theory is correct. And then maybe somebody, maybe in his

1540
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 2: circle or a total stranger, has stolen his car that

1541
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 2: was probably in the driveway because he was that.

1542
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:36,600
Speaker 3: Just happens to have his girlfriend in the trunk.

1543
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:40,680
Speaker 2: And maybe she was there and they took her and

1544
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 2: put her in the trunk, maybe and maybe this morning

1545
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 2: and hopefully hopefully not burying her in Colorado.

1546
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 3: This is awful. I'm trying to find good and awful.

1547
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 10: Man.

1548
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 8: Okay, well, while we're talking lyrics, this is the course

1549
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 8: of romantic homicide. In the back of my mind, you

1550
01:19:58,160 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 8: died and I didn't even cry, not a sing.

1551
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 4: Here.

1552
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:02,600
Speaker 8: That's literally the chorus.

1553
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 2: It is, But that was really that the song that

1554
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:06,600
Speaker 2: was really Celeste.

1555
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 9: No, that's the difference. This other song is romantic homicide.

1556
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:12,799
Speaker 3: That's much better cure.

1557
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's also kind of a dark title, it is.

1558
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 8: And then you go out to say I killed you

1559
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 8: and I didn't even regret it. I can't believe I

1560
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:22,679
Speaker 8: said it, but it's true.

1561
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 6: But it's important to know, though, right that that was

1562
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 6: released a while ago.

1563
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 3: She was so less already missing at that point. Yes, no,

1564
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 3: she was not.

1565
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 6: In twenty twenty two. No no, no, she was at home.

1566
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 6: But they had met so my film, No, no, no,

1567
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 6: thank you.

1568
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 3: We know that three years ago they had met. It's

1569
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:43,840
Speaker 3: twenty was around that time, wasn't it. Yeah, if he

1570
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,560
Speaker 3: was eighteen and she was so possible.

1571
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,519
Speaker 2: It maybe rate it maybe before twenty Yeah, anyway, we

1572
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 2: just it is so painful watching all of us try

1573
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 2: to do mad I know that visual of all of

1574
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:58,639
Speaker 2: us thinking was not great.

1575
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 3: Were feel bad? Literally that was the other day the

1576
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 3: body was found.

1577
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:09,840
Speaker 9: She was missing at thirteen, and he's not adding anyway the.

1578
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 3: Math is not method. Yeah bad. Can we get a

1579
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:16,640
Speaker 3: talk back in do we think before the night is

1580
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:19,639
Speaker 3: enough time? Let's do it. Let's get a few more

1581
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 3: if we can.

1582
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 11: Hey, guys from Canada, Hiley, I'm wondering if you would

1583
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 11: cover the qu Pauk murder one time and the work you.

1584
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 9: Do by oh wow wow wow request especially.

1585
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 3: It would be an interesting one to cover. So we

1586
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 3: brought that up nexis.

1587
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 6: To it is and guess what you know, who kind

1588
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,080
Speaker 6: of is assessed that one? Indy and you can do

1589
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 6: it together.

1590
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:52,719
Speaker 3: And by the way, let's do it next. We should

1591
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 3: do it because Diddy's.

1592
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,839
Speaker 2: Going back to court, and there's also a very obvious

1593
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 2: connection between the Tupac story and because Hunter pleedgedly, Dinny

1594
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 2: and Ningy were in blah blah blah.

1595
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 3: You'll have to tell us how I will. I love it.

1596
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 9: I'm going to dig into it. My only fear is

1597
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 9: there's a lot of gang talk and you know the

1598
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,719
Speaker 9: red and blue, so I wear both of those colors,

1599
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,360
Speaker 9: so I don't want to have any in both of them.

1600
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, but no, we'll cover that.

1601
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 9: That's been one that that has been one that I've been.

1602
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,880
Speaker 3: Fascinated by, so we'll dig into me too. Actually, I'm

1603
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:24,759
Speaker 3: very interested in that one. And you know it's local

1604
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 3: to me, Yeah, very local to me. Yeah, And so

1605
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:29,680
Speaker 3: I guess we have another talk back to me here.

1606
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 3: Let's do it, Hi, True crime tonight.

1607
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 12: This is Erica from Upstate New York. I was just

1608
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,800
Speaker 12: listening to Monday Show and you said that you love

1609
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 12: talkbacks about positive things in somebody's life, so I wanted

1610
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 12: to share that I am going to Nashville in a

1611
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 12: member to try on wedding dresses for the first time

1612
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 12: for my wedding next year. I really hope that I

1613
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 12: run into you, Stephanie allegedly allegedly allegedly.

1614
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:02,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'll the wedding shopping with you, baby. You

1615
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 3: tell me where to be. I bet you. I'm real

1616
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 3: good at that. That's a that's a category. That's great,

1617
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:13,680
Speaker 3: that is gratulations. Let this be the kick off to

1618
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 3: the happy news talking. Yeah, yes, happy news please good.

1619
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 4: That is such an exciting moment. I hope you really

1620
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 4: love it. Like I remember so much trying dresses on

1621
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 4: and and I am not a girly girl.

1622
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:31,639
Speaker 3: I think that's fair to say.

1623
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 2: You have to know you, like all of us that

1624
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 2: you were. We are sometimes so girly and.

1625
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's not. Yeah, that's accurate. But it felt like magic,

1626
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 4: and I hope you feel like magic. And I'm sure

1627
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:45,599
Speaker 4: you will feel like magic when you find that dress.

1628
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 3: She's dressed it sounds like to go where is she

1629
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:50,719
Speaker 3: coming from?

1630
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 2: I once, yeah, upstate New York right, or oh maybe

1631
01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 2: she's probably all New Yorker right.

1632
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 4: Goodness, this is you guys. You guys are meant to

1633
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 4: Are we going to say yes.

1634
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 3: He's dress or what let's do it?

1635
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 6: You're like a big bridle like thing in Nashville or

1636
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 6: something is there? Like is it a destination for weddings?

1637
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:12,800
Speaker 3: I don't know, or.

1638
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 4: Maybe she's just getting married. I got married in Connecticut

1639
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 4: and so I also flew and my dress was in Connecticut.

1640
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 3: Oh so frustrating though for like fittings and stuff.

1641
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,719
Speaker 4: No, it was a very My engagement was so short

1642
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:31,800
Speaker 4: people actually thought I was Several people ask me if

1643
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,879
Speaker 4: I was pregnant. We were only engaged for fourteen weeks,

1644
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 4: so it's not like there were a lot of childs.

1645
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,639
Speaker 3: I try to travel with a wedding dress, I don't you.

1646
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 4: And my mom had you know, it was she wanted

1647
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 4: me to go to this whatever the tailor who makes

1648
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:46,760
Speaker 4: the dresses it.

1649
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 3: Was okay, So maybe it's something like that.

1650
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 2: Then Yeah, this is why Courtney was the opposite of

1651
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 2: a bridezilla, because that's it's why she's cool. Because yes,

1652
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 2: she's very girly, but then that's a pretty good statement

1653
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:58,640
Speaker 2: that you can hang Courtney or I'm strong that you

1654
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 2: just got that go in and record time. Well huge congratulations. Yeah,

1655
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 2: I feel like that's so nice to end on a

1656
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:06,000
Speaker 2: high note.

1657
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 9: Wasn't because this has been a tough week, so we

1658
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 9: needed some happy energy.

1659
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:11,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, big smile to the group.

1660
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 2: I love you guys, listen again, Big night, Amanda Ox,

1661
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us, Santa Taha into Ava and

1662
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:23,759
Speaker 2: Adam and Sam and Courtney and body Oscar in our hearts.

1663
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:26,440
Speaker 2: I love you guys. Let's have a great.

1664
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:27,880
Speaker 3: Tonight and a wonderful weekend.

1665
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 2: Everybody stays safe out there and have a great weekend.

1666
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 4: I'm back at you and good night from the studio

1667
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,960
Speaker 4: who brought you the pikedon Masacer and murder one oh one.

1668
01:25:56,720 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 3: This is in cells.

1669
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:03,360
Speaker 4: Also Woman Know What and Dami Either from the dark

1670
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 4: corners of the web, an emerging mindset.

1671
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 3: I can't have you girls, I will destroy you.

1672
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 4: A kind of subculture, a hidden world of resentment, cynicism,

1673
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 4: anger against women.

1674
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:20,759
Speaker 1: This is a wake up call for how we think

1675
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 1: about manhood.

1676
01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 3: A seed of loneliness explodes. I just hate myself. I

1677
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:29,479
Speaker 3: don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but

1678
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 3: I will punish you all for it. That was the

1679
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 3: point where I realized I can't help him. He doesn't

1680
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 3: want it. At a deadly tipping.

1681
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 4: Point, in cells will be added to the Terrorism Guide.

1682
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 12: Please say a driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing

1683
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 12: ten people.

1684
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 3: I just told my husband I know she's dead.

1685
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 4: Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which

1686
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:56,800
Speaker 4: I will have my revenge.

1687
01:26:57,080 --> 01:26:58,839
Speaker 3: This is in cells.

1688
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 9: If you could just drop that any minute and nobody

1689
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 9: will even notice.

1690
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 4: Listen to Season one of Inseels starting September twenty fourth

1691
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:11,639
Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get

1692
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 4: your podcasts.