WEBVTT - Ackman Starts Marketing Pershing IPO to Raise up to $10 Billion 

0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:10.559
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am.

0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.239
<v Speaker 1>He's done on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the

0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.520
<v Speaker 1>or watch us live on YouTube.

0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:26.480
<v Speaker 2>We want to first talk a little bit about an

0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.840
<v Speaker 2>IPO that's coming up later this month. Bill Ackman, the

0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.720
<v Speaker 2>billionaire investor, has kicked off formal marketing for the IPO

0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.720
<v Speaker 2>of his closed end fund and his hedge fund. And

0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.040
<v Speaker 2>this is something Billy Lipscheltz has been covering for us

0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.080
<v Speaker 2>here as our initial public offering Reporter, Billy, this is

0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.280
<v Speaker 2>not Bill Ackman's first go round with an IPO for

0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.360
<v Speaker 2>his hedge fund and his closed end fund, is it?

0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.640
<v Speaker 3>No, it's not really When you look at how this

0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.840
<v Speaker 3>has been playing out in kind of a mission that

0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.080
<v Speaker 3>they've been attempting to kind of achieve. You go back

0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.520
<v Speaker 3>to twenty twenty four when he set out to raise

0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.600
<v Speaker 3>twenty five billion dollars, then cut it to two billion,

0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.840
<v Speaker 3>and ultimately pulled the plug on that. This is now

0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.480
<v Speaker 3>a kind of reinvigorated, rethought out strategy where he will

0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.840
<v Speaker 3>raise money between five and ten billion dollars for the

0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.360
<v Speaker 3>closed end fund, and if you participate in that, you

0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.920
<v Speaker 3>get a stake in Perching Square proper. So trying to

0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.960
<v Speaker 3>incentivize to get this deal across the finish line, something

0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.119
<v Speaker 3>that they were not successful doing call it two years ago.

0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:25.280
<v Speaker 4>Why is he doing it and why is he doing

0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:25.679
<v Speaker 4>it now?

0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.440
<v Speaker 3>Billing He's doing it to bolster Assets Center Management, so

0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.680
<v Speaker 3>he has a fund listed in Europe. You generate fees

0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:35.480
<v Speaker 3>no matter what off a closed end fund. It's not

0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.320
<v Speaker 3>like an ETF where you can face some of the

0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.399
<v Speaker 3>redemption issues. So bolstering their AUM, bolstering the fees that

0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.399
<v Speaker 3>they're going to generate from this product, among others, reason

0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.760
<v Speaker 3>to go public. This has been something they've talked about

0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.400
<v Speaker 3>for quite some time, so it kind of is a

0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:51.600
<v Speaker 3>litmus test, if you will. There's obviously been a lot

0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.800
<v Speaker 3>of debate why do people go public? What do they

0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.400
<v Speaker 3>want to achieve? At least from the pitch for Perching

0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Squares to try to bring potential wealth to retail investors.

0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.320
<v Speaker 3>But certainly a bit of the skeptics see this kind

0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.120
<v Speaker 3>of similar to some of the other strategies we've seen

0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.200
<v Speaker 3>the likes of a Carlisle or Kkartake over the last

0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:09.960
<v Speaker 3>decade or so, and Billy just.

0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Remind us of how Bill Ackman's strategy has shifted over

0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:15.440
<v Speaker 2>the years, because once upon a time he was a

0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.280
<v Speaker 2>big activist investor and he's kind of morphed into more

0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.800
<v Speaker 2>trying to be like a Warren Buffett, you know, taking

0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.920
<v Speaker 2>these big stakes and other companies for long term investments.

0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.600
<v Speaker 4>Walk us through what that has looked like. It's been

0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:28.320
<v Speaker 4>a big shift.

0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.520
<v Speaker 3>To your point, we all remember herbal life in the

0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.000
<v Speaker 3>back and forth between Acman and Icon, and now if

0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.040
<v Speaker 3>you look at the holdings, whether it's in his fund

0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.760
<v Speaker 3>or in the European listed closed end fund, we're talking

0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.120
<v Speaker 3>about some positions in some pretty big companies. You've got

0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:48.079
<v Speaker 3>Amazon dot Com, Howard Hughes, Google, Uber, Meta, some of

0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.560
<v Speaker 3>the bigger names. Obviously, he's been very vocal about Fanny

0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.400
<v Speaker 3>and Freddie and trying to bring them both public and

0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.360
<v Speaker 3>obviously would benefit from that. So when you look at

0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.520
<v Speaker 3>kind of the development of his career, he very much

0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.280
<v Speaker 3>has leaned into trying to be able to turn Pershing

0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.880
<v Speaker 3>Square into a modern version of Berkshire Hathaway. And interestingly enough,

0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.120
<v Speaker 3>obviously Buffett is stepped away from Berkshire. So now maybe

0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.680
<v Speaker 3>is this a perfect time, at least from the actman

0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.320
<v Speaker 3>camp to step into that spotlight and be kind of

0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.600
<v Speaker 3>a person who can be an investor that folks look

0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.560
<v Speaker 3>at as a north star. Obviously, it remains to be

0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.280
<v Speaker 3>seen and this will be a key test of that.

0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.200
<v Speaker 3>But to your point, we've seen a big shift.

0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.560
<v Speaker 5>So Bareley, what's the expectation here for this offering? Is

0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.240
<v Speaker 5>this going to be a retail led type of offering

0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.200
<v Speaker 5>or does this have a lot of institutional demand?

0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.240
<v Speaker 3>What do we know it'll be retail lad They've laid

0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.120
<v Speaker 3>out that they have a good chunk a few billion

0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.240
<v Speaker 3>dollars kind of earmarked for institutional investors, family offices and

0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.480
<v Speaker 3>kind of that. Like, but the big pitch really is

0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.480
<v Speaker 3>for this to be raised predominantly again, maybe not predominantly

0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.600
<v Speaker 3>two point eight billion dollars secured from qualified investors according

0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.320
<v Speaker 3>to Pershing Square, but it is catering to retail investors

0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.600
<v Speaker 3>and that's why you're seeing it take such a long

0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.520
<v Speaker 3>road show, launching today, expected to price on April twenty eighth.

0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.000
<v Speaker 3>You typically would see in a normal roadshow about seven

0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.040
<v Speaker 3>to eight days. This is more than two weeks and

0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.280
<v Speaker 3>the big pitch is being able to interact with the

0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.480
<v Speaker 3>retail investing crowd, much like they try to do a

0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.680
<v Speaker 3>few years ago, and trying to get people to agree

0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.360
<v Speaker 3>that this is a good investment for them. But if

0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.680
<v Speaker 3>you've paid attention to Bill Ackman and kind of his

0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.520
<v Speaker 3>ventures and adventures if you will, on X and Twitter,

0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.440
<v Speaker 3>very much trying to lean into the average investor, and

0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:22.800
<v Speaker 3>that was something they pitched again back in twenty twenty four,

0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:27.000
<v Speaker 3>trying to build pushing into something similar to Berkshire Hathaway

0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.479
<v Speaker 3>where they would have, you know, a Carnival esque event

0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.279
<v Speaker 3>every year where people could who are investing in the

0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.840
<v Speaker 3>fund could actually be able to meet and interact with.

0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.200
<v Speaker 4>Management and Bailly.

0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:40.080
<v Speaker 2>So far, no indication that the uncertainty the geopolitics of

0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.600
<v Speaker 2>it is going to put them off in terms of

0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:43.520
<v Speaker 2>pursuing this IPO.

0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:45.680
<v Speaker 4>No, and they marched forward. And I think that was

0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:46.320
<v Speaker 4>one of the things.

0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.240
<v Speaker 3>I can't remember if Actman put it on X or

0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.080
<v Speaker 3>set it in a podcast or something, was kind of

0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.720
<v Speaker 3>pitching that, well, you know, the time to deploy assets

0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.239
<v Speaker 3>is when markets are pulling back, and this actually fits

0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.359
<v Speaker 3>into the strategy in the kind of broader scheme of

0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.279
<v Speaker 3>what they want to do, and again just try to

0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.000
<v Speaker 3>simplify the fact that at least from the Pershing Square

0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.200
<v Speaker 3>corner in the Pershing Square camp, if you launch this

0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.320
<v Speaker 3>deal and do have a longer road show, you know

0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.760
<v Speaker 3>that there is uncertainty and there is a lot of

0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.160
<v Speaker 3>kind of issues with the geopolitical backdrop. But they're continuing

0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.919
<v Speaker 3>to push forward on that. Ultimately, what does this look like.

0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:18.680
<v Speaker 3>We'll continue to keep an eye on that over the

0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:20.840
<v Speaker 3>next two weeks, but again it'll be key to see

0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.680
<v Speaker 3>how this price is and what they actually bring in

0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.680
<v Speaker 3>house on April twenty eighth, because just a few weeks

0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.239
<v Speaker 3>ago in March, Robin Adventures tried to raise a billion

0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.200
<v Speaker 3>dollars for a closed nd fund and fell about thirty

0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.800
<v Speaker 3>percent short of their target. So certainly not the layup

0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:37.840
<v Speaker 3>that many people might have thought.

0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.000
<v Speaker 2>Stay with us more from Boomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:49.320
<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.480
<v Speaker 1>weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, cocklay and Android

0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.839
<v Speaker 1>Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.960
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.520
<v Speaker 5>A lot of geopolitics on the front burner, of course.

0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.120
<v Speaker 5>But it is still earnings season right now. We've got

0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.800
<v Speaker 5>the big banks kicking off earnings today. Goldman Sacks put

0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:09.680
<v Speaker 5>out some numbers here.

0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:10.360
<v Speaker 4>I thought the numbers.

0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.240
<v Speaker 5>I'm an equities guy, so I looked at their equity

0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:13.920
<v Speaker 5>line first, and they just crushed it.

0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.159
<v Speaker 4>A little bit light relative to.

0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.400
<v Speaker 5>Expectations on the fixed side, the fixed income sign but

0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.320
<v Speaker 5>those are bond people who really cares. But anyway, it's

0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.800
<v Speaker 5>a big business. It's a big business. But let's check

0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:25.680
<v Speaker 5>in with Neil Sites. He covers his stuff for a

0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.320
<v Speaker 5>Bloomberg Intelligence, you know, talk to us about Goldman Sachs

0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:29.640
<v Speaker 5>and the quarter they just released.

0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.880
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, So I think the general broad strokes is that

0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.839
<v Speaker 6>the core capital markets business is firing right as we

0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:41.320
<v Speaker 6>sort of entered this quarter, this quarter's results, we obviously

0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.160
<v Speaker 6>saw markets in flux, right, and obviously plenty of uncertainty

0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.760
<v Speaker 6>down the pike here, But ultimately a lot of volatility

0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:53.839
<v Speaker 6>in the quarter, particularly inequities and fixed income products mostly

0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.320
<v Speaker 6>geared towards the later quarter, and so there was sort

0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.240
<v Speaker 6>of a high bar coming into these results in expectations

0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:03.000
<v Speaker 6>for a trading legs sort of beat and Frankly, we

0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.400
<v Speaker 6>saw that really come through in the equities business. Now

0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.240
<v Speaker 6>on fixed income, that's where the bigger miss has sort

0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:13.520
<v Speaker 6>of overshadowed strength in other categories for Goldman and so,

0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.720
<v Speaker 6>you know, a lot of that relates to specific products. Obviously,

0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.360
<v Speaker 6>when you have volatility, it's not always perfectly positive volatility

0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.520
<v Speaker 6>for the trading business, so a little bit of sort

0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.480
<v Speaker 6>of you know mix within that. And then when you

0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:30.240
<v Speaker 6>look at the investment banking business, I mean M and A, ECM,

0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.000
<v Speaker 6>debt fees, all of those beat expectations. That was a

0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.720
<v Speaker 6>big story heading into twenty twenty six was the expectation

0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:43.520
<v Speaker 6>for capital markets for debt issuance, equity issuance, particularly IPOs

0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.840
<v Speaker 6>and M and A to come back firing. The first

0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:49.480
<v Speaker 6>quarter was solid. The backlog has dipped a little bit

0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.400
<v Speaker 6>from a four year high in the prior quarter, so

0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.240
<v Speaker 6>coming off a little bit part of that is due

0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.600
<v Speaker 6>to when you have such strong results, things come out

0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.920
<v Speaker 6>of the backlog. But I think the bigger question as

0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.320
<v Speaker 6>we move forward is with the elevated volatility that's positive

0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.240
<v Speaker 6>to trading, that tends to be not so helpful for

0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.880
<v Speaker 6>the investment banking side. So how our clients transacting early

0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.520
<v Speaker 6>in the second quarter is a key question, and Goldman

0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.160
<v Speaker 6>says they remain engaged.

0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.160
<v Speaker 2>So when it comes to that surprise drop in fixed

0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.200
<v Speaker 2>income trading, do we think that that's Goldman specific or

0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.480
<v Speaker 2>is that something that could have a read through to

0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:22.680
<v Speaker 2>the other big banks.

0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.200
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I think that's what we're sort of going to

0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.559
<v Speaker 6>be looking very closely at. It feels that it could

0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.320
<v Speaker 6>be a little bit unique to Goldman. Again, it depends

0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.640
<v Speaker 6>on the actual positioning within this business. When you look

0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.760
<v Speaker 6>at some of the other large piers in the space, JP, Morgan,

0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.200
<v Speaker 6>Bank of America, City Group, they all sort of guided

0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.439
<v Speaker 6>to mid teens growth across the trading business for the

0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.440
<v Speaker 6>first quarter, and that guidance came in early mid March.

0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.280
<v Speaker 6>So the expectation is this could be a Goldman unique

0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:57.720
<v Speaker 6>scenario where fixed income trading revenue was particularly weak. But

0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.160
<v Speaker 6>we'll have to watch, right. I mean again, volatility tends

0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.440
<v Speaker 6>to be positive for the trading business, but it's not

0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.920
<v Speaker 6>a perfect relationship, and so we'll have to be watching,

0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.559
<v Speaker 6>particularly given the sort of high bar and the expectations

0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:12.640
<v Speaker 6>coming in that trading was going to be so strong.

0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.280
<v Speaker 5>Hey, Neil, I'm thinking about twenty twenty six could be

0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.479
<v Speaker 5>just a monster, monster year for IPOs.

0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:18.719
<v Speaker 4>Here.

0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.240
<v Speaker 5>I'm thinking SpaceX, maybe some of these AI names like Anthropic.

0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.560
<v Speaker 5>What are some of the big investment banks saying about

0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:26.679
<v Speaker 5>that opportunity?

0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.200
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and I think that is that is a big

0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.040
<v Speaker 6>opportunity in the offing, right. I think a lot of

0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.600
<v Speaker 6>it now relates to, Okay, these IPOs are coming at

0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.319
<v Speaker 6>what pace? Will they come right? And so are these

0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.360
<v Speaker 6>twenty twenty six stories are they first half, second half?

0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.640
<v Speaker 6>Or do things get kicked into twenty twenty seven? If

0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.360
<v Speaker 6>you know, the uncertainty that we're living through today prolongs

0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:52.680
<v Speaker 6>and it sort of causes sponsors and strategics to sort

0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.800
<v Speaker 6>of put pencils down and sort of reassess that that opportunity.

0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.080
<v Speaker 6>Goldman noted IPOs a little bit softer in March. I

0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.239
<v Speaker 6>don't think that surprises anyone, right, just given the volatility.

0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.480
<v Speaker 6>I think they remain bullish moving forward on that business.

0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.840
<v Speaker 6>So I think it's just going to be a timing

0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.800
<v Speaker 6>question of rather when, not necessarily if. But of course,

0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.800
<v Speaker 6>you know plenty of uncertainties still out there, so that

0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:17.800
<v Speaker 6>remains the big question.

0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Has David Solomon, the CEO, said anything about the geopolitical uncertainty,

0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.360
<v Speaker 2>the war and Iran and what that means for business

0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:26.200
<v Speaker 2>prospects overall.

0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I think he has hinted at that sort of

0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.920
<v Speaker 6>that same sentiment right where the volatility keeps clients engaged.

0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.000
<v Speaker 6>So it's again positive to the trading as you think

0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.960
<v Speaker 6>about how you have to have institutional clients have to

0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.600
<v Speaker 6>reposition or allocate for a much wider range of outcomes

0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.880
<v Speaker 6>and scenarios when we're sort of going through what we've

0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:54.199
<v Speaker 6>had with AI, scare trades, software concerns, now war. That

0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.040
<v Speaker 6>all sort of creates a pretty good backdrop for the

0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.720
<v Speaker 6>intermediation type business when we have market that you know,

0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.400
<v Speaker 6>frankly are still only a handful of percent off of

0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.080
<v Speaker 6>all time highs. That's really strong. For the financing business

0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.480
<v Speaker 6>that Goldman's been growing in. That was a really bright

0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.120
<v Speaker 6>spot for the equities business in the first quarter. They're

0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.160
<v Speaker 6>continuing to deploy balance sheet into that business, so they

0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.959
<v Speaker 6>see an opportunity to sort of lean into client needs

0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:22.160
<v Speaker 6>and client demands in this environment. Albeit cautioning that you know,

0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.240
<v Speaker 6>there's a big uncertainty piece out there.

0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.439
<v Speaker 5>Neil, thanks so much, really appreciate it, Neil site he

0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.880
<v Speaker 5>covers all the big banks for and investment banks for

0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:32.040
<v Speaker 5>Bloomberg Intelligence.

0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.400
<v Speaker 4>We appreciate getting some of his time there.

0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:35.680
<v Speaker 3>Stay with us.

0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.120
<v Speaker 4>More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.760
<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.880
<v Speaker 1>weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.400
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.439
<v Speaker 5>We're back here on site at the New Jersey Institute

0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.720
<v Speaker 5>of Technology in Newark, New Jersey.

0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:02.760
<v Speaker 4>Our first guest on site, which is very cool.

0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 5>Cassie Hallberg joints that she's the CEO of NJI backed

0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:08.600
<v Speaker 5>startup Pure Trace Labs.

0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:10.800
<v Speaker 4>Cassie, thanks so much for being with us.

0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.600
<v Speaker 5>I'm looking at the backgrounds and the reading material that

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.760
<v Speaker 5>Scarlett and I have for all our guests today and

0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.680
<v Speaker 5>one theme runs through it and I don't know what

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.880
<v Speaker 5>that theme is, but that theme is pfas. Can you

0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:27.079
<v Speaker 5>tell us what PFAS is or are absolutely so.

0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.520
<v Speaker 7>P FAS is sometimes referred to as forever chemicals. They

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.000
<v Speaker 7>were crazy useful chemicals that were developed after World War

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 7>two because they are water resistant and heat resistant, so

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.319
<v Speaker 7>you may know them. From your nonstick cookware or from

0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.160
<v Speaker 7>your rain proof rainwear. The problem that we've got with

0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.920
<v Speaker 7>p fas is that they have gotten out into the

0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.400
<v Speaker 7>environment and they've gotten into the americans bloodstreams. So ninety

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.040
<v Speaker 7>eight percent of Americans haven't our bloodstream and unfortunately, it

0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:59.319
<v Speaker 7>is associated with health conditions such as cancer, birth defects

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:04.320
<v Speaker 7>in for utility, even high cholesterol. And one of the

0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.440
<v Speaker 7>things that we're trying to understand is how do we

0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.520
<v Speaker 7>do a better job of locating it? And other companies

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.079
<v Speaker 7>are also working on how do you do a better

0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 7>job of destroying this because the chemical bonds are very

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.720
<v Speaker 7>strong and they've proven very, very persistent in our environment.

0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:21.120
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so talk us.

0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Through what Pure Trees Labs that your CEO of does

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.160
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to pfs Absolutely.

0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:27.560
<v Speaker 5>So.

0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.720
<v Speaker 7>One of the challenges with pfas has been testing for them.

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 7>Our current methodology for testing takes two to three weeks,

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.240
<v Speaker 7>is very labor intensive, so it's very expensive. It costs

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.160
<v Speaker 7>anywhere from five to eight hundred dollars, and that means

0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.680
<v Speaker 7>that for the average homeowner, like you can't test your

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.560
<v Speaker 7>own water. Even though the EPA believes that up to

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:52.199
<v Speaker 7>half of Americans have p fats in our water, and

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.240
<v Speaker 7>so that's basically created a problem. So what Pure Trace

0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 7>Lab has been able to do through a wonderful invention

0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:04.600
<v Speaker 7>by doctor Howch is use mass spectrometry and paper spray

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.640
<v Speaker 7>mass spectrometry to be precise in order to test for

0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.600
<v Speaker 7>pfas and he can do it in under three minutes

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 7>and with very little labor, and so we can do

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.800
<v Speaker 7>it at a fraction of the costs. So we like

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.400
<v Speaker 7>to say we can do it in minutes versus weeks,

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 7>and we can do it at a third of the

0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 7>cost of what the current current methodologies are.

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.800
<v Speaker 5>So what is the market here for any type of

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.600
<v Speaker 5>p FASS detection treatment? Is it something that would be

0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.800
<v Speaker 5>done at the consumer level or the industrial level? Is

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:37.800
<v Speaker 5>just like just doing a radon test that I have

0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 5>to do for when I buy my home in New Jersey.

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.760
<v Speaker 7>I love the analogy with rate on because it's one

0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 7>we use often.

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.080
<v Speaker 4>So yes, the answer is yes.

0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 7>Industry needs it because they need to be checking that

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 7>it's not in our consumer packaging. The municipalities need to

0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 7>be doing it to make sure it's not in our water,

0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 7>Our farmers need to be doing it to make sure

0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.000
<v Speaker 7>it's not in their soil, because if it's in the soil,

0:14:58.040 --> 0:14:59.400
<v Speaker 7>it's going to get into the it's going to get

0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.800
<v Speaker 7>into the food. So so you know, what we're doing

0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.720
<v Speaker 7>and focusing in on is taking a first little bite,

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 7>which is can we bring this to the homeowner market.

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 7>We know that just under half of all households in

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.120
<v Speaker 7>America have p fasten their water. In New Jersey, we

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.040
<v Speaker 7>believe that that's up to actually eighty about eighty four percent.

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 7>So we've got the ability to give homeowners the ability

0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.960
<v Speaker 7>to actually test at a very reasonable price. And then,

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.080
<v Speaker 7>more importantly to your point about Radon, we've got the

0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 7>ability to give it to home inspectors. Traditionally, home inspectors

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 7>can't wait two to three weeks for a test result.

0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 7>But if we can get them a test result within

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.640
<v Speaker 7>one to two days, they can put this into the

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 7>real estate transaction. It doesn't mean you're going to blow

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 7>up your real estate transaction because there are solutions, so

0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.000
<v Speaker 7>you can if let's say you've got p fast in

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 7>your water, there is a solution for all different budgets.

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 7>You could potentially get a carbon activated water of a pitcher.

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 7>You could use a carbon activated water from your refrigerator.

0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 7>You can also go all out with reverse osmosis or

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 7>even a home filtration system, depending on what your budget

0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.040
<v Speaker 7>is and what you personally can do. But you can

0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 7>do things to remove these from your environment.

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but first things first, you got to figure out

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 2>how much is in there. Talk a little bit about

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 2>the role that NGIT played in helping doctor Chen, whose

0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 2>technology this is based on, really figure out this technology.

0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.320
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, they were amazing because doctor Chen walked in and said,

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:29.560
<v Speaker 7>I've got this great invention.

0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:30.360
<v Speaker 4>What do I do?

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.120
<v Speaker 7>You yelled Rika, And what NJIT was able to do

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 7>through their partner and JII was they actually walked out

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.840
<v Speaker 7>and started doing some business plans and cases. Right, is

0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 7>there a big enough market out there that it warrants

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.440
<v Speaker 7>being able to commercialize this? And if you are going

0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.440
<v Speaker 7>to commercialize it, who are you going to target? Who

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 7>are you going to target first? And what does that

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 7>look like? So they basically were able to take the

0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.600
<v Speaker 7>business aspect and marry that with a science and so

0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 7>many universities we've got brilliant ideas, but we don't necessarily

0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.080
<v Speaker 7>have professors trained in business. And so what NJ is

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 7>doing that's incredibly unique is they're bringing business and they're

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.880
<v Speaker 7>bringing technology together so that we can get those best

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:11.400
<v Speaker 7>ideas out into the marketplace.

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 4>Thirty seconds left. How hard is it to raise money

0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 4>these days?

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 7>We've been very lucky so far, so we've been able

0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:24.840
<v Speaker 7>to We're funded via the njii's Investment Fund, and we

0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.119
<v Speaker 7>will let you know as we find out if we

0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:28.879
<v Speaker 7>need more money.

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 1>This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 1>and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday,

0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.240
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 1>can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.480
<v Speaker 1>always on the Bloomberg terminal