WEBVTT - Looking Through Telescopes: Part 2 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:14.000 Forward Thinking. He's here, and welcome to Forward Thinking, about 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.919 podcast that looks at the future and says, but my eyes, 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.320 my eyes, my eyes are like a telescope. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.919 I'm Lauren foc Obama, and I'm Joe McCormick. And we're 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:25.960 so glad to have Lauren back with us this time. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:28.880 Thank you, Joe. Yeah, I believe while I was out 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.319 you guys talked about telescopes. We did, but we didn't 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.479 finish talking about them, that's right. So without you, Lauren, 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:39.080 we recorded the first part of a podcast episode about telescopes, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.800 and today we're going to tackle part two. So what 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.879 are we talking about? Last time we we sort of 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.040 started with some musings about the history of telescopes and 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.680 what they mean to us, the fact that they're not 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.960 just for creating images that are pleasing to the eye, 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.680 but they're actually very important scientific instruments. They give us knowledge. 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.160 It's very useful for determining our place in the universe 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.000 and learning things that we couldn't otherwise know. Yeah, like 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.959 being able to confirm the fact that the Earth is 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.080 not the center of the universe, right, that was one 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.560 of the thing. Yeah, pretty good. Well, I mean there 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.040 were a lot of different lines of evidence that eventually 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:20.960 converged to disprove the geocentric models, the idea that everything 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.080 revolves around the Earth. But but being able to see 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.480 stuff in outer space certainly helped, right, So when Galileo 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.760 looked through his telescope and saw moons orbiting Jupiter and 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.280 saw the phases of Venus and things like that, that 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.600 was some good evidence. Okay, really it seems like we're 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.720 we're all going around the Sun instead of it all 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.679 going around us, and that trend is continued. So we 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:45.440 saw how the Hubble telescope helped us, uh narrowed down 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.240 the age of the universe, and how other telescopes have 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.640 have taught us all kinds of things about the our 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:54.920 whole model of cosmology, the history of the universe, where 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.600 we all come from. And now we want to take 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.080 where we've gone and project forward. Right, So we're looking 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.000 into the future of telescopes. We're gonna be talking about 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:10.400 some telescopes that are in various stages of being constructed. 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.840 Some of them are just in the concept stage, haven't 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.080 been built. At all. Uh, some of them are space 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.200 bound telescopes. Some of them are here on Earth or 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.600 will be here on Earth. Yeah, and I think, and 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:24.960 hopefully all will agree with me, I think it is 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.200 best to start with the good old James Webb space 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.720 telescope because I think this is one of the coolest 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.680 things going on in science today. I'm pretty excited about it. Yeah. 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.480 This is a sort of the successor to the Hubble, right, 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.440 it's the next generation space observatory, and it's really meant 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:46.240 to to gaze further than the Hubble ever could. And 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.200 we all hope that the the mirrors aboard the James 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:54.880 Webb will be properly installed and properly formed, because we 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.600 talked in the last episode about how the Hubble famously 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:02.560 had an aberration on its primary mirror, a multibillion dollar opperation, 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.720 so we had to send up service missions to repair 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.400 the Hubble telescope to get it working in proper order. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.240 But that might not be so much an option with 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.400 the James web space Telescope, because well, a couple of 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.240 reasons Shuttle program being being shelves is a big one. 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.280 That's one of them. The other one being that James 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.200 web space telescope is not going to be easily accessible 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.200 because it's not going to be in low Earth orbit. Now, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.000 this is a large infrared telescope with a six point 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:35.320 five meter primary mirror. Uh, and you know it's it's 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.080 supposed to look at everything from the beginning of the 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.080 universe up to present day, like to really look at 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:47.640 not just how how conditions were moments after the Big Bang, 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:52.880 but how the universe evolved over time, how did galaxies form, 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.320 how did how did stars form? Right, Because you have 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.960 to remember, when you use a telescope that can see 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:03.120 as far as these space telescopes can, you're essentially using 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.480 some kind of visual time machine. Yeah, you're looking back 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.480 in time. That's exactly right, because light only travels at 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.440 a certain speed. Yeah, the speed of light, as it 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.400 turns out, exactly, So when you peer across the galaxy, 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.000 you're not seeing things happening in real time. You're seeing 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.360 the light that left those things as far away as 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.000 they are, and it's taken all this time for that 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.680 exactly to cross the distance in between to reach you. Right. 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.240 So the further and further you peer out into the universe, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.080 the further and further back you're seeing in time. Yeah. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.120 For example, I mean, if you were to look at 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.000 the Sun, don't don't look at the sun, never look 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.680 directly into the Sun. But if you were, you know 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.640 how how far back that goes? Right? About ten minutes 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.400 and eight minutes. Yeah, it takes about eight minutes for 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:49.279 light from the Sun to reach the Earth, So you 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:51.880 are actually looking back in time by eight minutes. You're 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.520 not looking at where the Sun is now or how 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.960 the Sun appears now. You're looking at how the Sun 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.880 appeared eight minutes ago. So same sort of of idea, 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.760 except you just extend it and the further out you go, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.680 the further back in time you're looking. Yeah. So the 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.320 Hubble has been able to show us some really amazing 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.880 ancient stuff like early galaxies in the ultra deep field. 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.360 This stuff is really exciting. The James Web Space Telescope 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.279 is going to let us see even further back right, 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.760 and it's it's the design is really neat. The primary 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:29.440 mirror actually is segmented and can fold up hexagonal segments. 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.839 So the cool thing about it is that it can 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.320 be folded for launch, because obviously this is a very 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.280 delicate instrument and launch I don't know if you guys 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.120 know this, but if you were to strap a lot 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.599 of rocket fuel to your bottom and then push yourself 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.880 up into space by lightning set rocket fuel, it's a 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.320 bit of a bumpy ride. It's pretty hardcore. It's the 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.080 most metal of all launches. It is. It makes even 0:05:55.120 --> 0:06:00.240 astronauts puke. Yes, astronauts are the best people at not puking. Like, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.080 of all the people in a not puking contest, they 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.200 would be at the top. So in the puking spectrum, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.880 they are trained. They are close to to zero p 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.960 right there, the least puky, but sometimes even they puke, 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.760 whereas babies would be way on the other end of 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.960 that spec Yeah, they'd be high puking coefficient, possibly only 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:24.479 exceeded by the young girl in the Exorcist. But anyway, 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.360 that's not her fault. She's possessed. I didn't well, I 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.560 didn't say it was her fault. I was merely saying, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.279 but it is a very bumpy ride. And telescopes, of course, 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.360 the mirrors, the huge mirrors that we used to create 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:44.880 gigantic reflecting telescopes optical and infrared like the James Webb 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.159 is going to be are very delicate. Yes, And the 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:52.520 James Webb telescope will have four instruments aboard it, the 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:57.600 near infrared camera or near CAM, the near infrared spectrograph 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:02.039 or near SPEC, the mid infra red instrument mirror, and 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.800 then finally the fine guidance sensor slash near Infrared imager 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:12.120 and slit less spectrograph or figures nearest. Yeah, that one 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.720 is that one does not go into acronym form very 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.800 and he was one of my favorite Roman emperors. Didn't 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.080 he didn't he play fiddle while Rome just swallow. Well, 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.040 so so what what ranges of of light? Is this 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.280 thing going to be detecting? From point six to twenty 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.080 eight micrometers in wavelengths? So point six by the way, 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:38.080 some numbers. So so a micrometer is is essentially one 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.920 thousand nanometers, right, So if you look at the spectrum 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.000 of light and you look at the different wavelengths and 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.160 you look at six d nanometers, that would be point 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:53.280 six micrometers. That's how far down uh, the and the 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.360 visible spectrum the this will be able to look and 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.160 that that's somewhere in the orange slash red area. So 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.600 you know, you think of your roy G BIV. Your 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.600 longer wavelengths are on the roy side, so it's not 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:10.840 gonna be able to see anything from yellow on, but 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.800 red and orange it will be able to look at 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.440 as well as infrared. And keep in mind we mentioned 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.520 this in our previous episode when we talked about infrared telescopes. 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.400 The data that we get from these often we end 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.320 up putting it through some sort of visualization software so 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.960 that we add color that we can actually perceive right right, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.320 which is easier for us to look at. Yeah, we 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.719 you see these amazing gorgeous pictures of space, like the 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.280 amazing nebula right right. Anything from a nebula or a 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.320 supernova that you've ever seen has been a basically an 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:45.600 artist's rendition of of figuring out what those wavelengths would be, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:47.440 sort of sort of scaling it, you know, like if 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:49.240 if you've ever done music and you know how to 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.520 how to scale octaves down or up the right right. Similarly, though, 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.080 I do want to clarify based on artists rendition, that 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:59.040 doesn't just mean like a guess. It's a very scientific 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.400 ascessive guessing. Yeah, but it's essentially you take you take 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.800 the data you have and you extrapolate from it in 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.800 order to get us an image that we can perceive 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.640 if you can see, And I'm just saying that the 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:18.240 really pretty colors are specifically chosen, yes, for reasons, I mean, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.679 in addition to being mathematically sound, because they are really pretty. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.800 It's both at the same time. It's true. Yes, So 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:25.599 we mentioned it's going to be looking at some of 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.319 the earliest things in the universe. What does this really mean? 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.400 So we're saying it's peering beyond where the Hubble scene, 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.440 beyond the altar deep field, way way back in time 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.360 into I guess, beyond the first billion years of the 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.760 universe's existence, right way into the past. What's it going 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.120 to see? So you kind of need to know a 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:46.920 little bit about the Big Bang theory for this to 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:51.320 make sense. But in for a good long while compared 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.200 to what the time scale that we humans are used to. 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.160 I mean, it's a blink of an eye in the 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.760 galactic time scale, but a good long while. Uh. In 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.040 g and matter, we're all kind of one thing. It 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.440 was the universe was extremely dense, so dense that light 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:11.120 could not pass through it. Uh. Then it eventually expanded out. 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.560 And once it expanded out, and you started getting some 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.920 cooling and you had energy and mass separating out. You 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.960 started to have the formation of stars and galaxies, and 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.080 it's that first generation of stars that we're looking for 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.520 with James Webb. Yeah, we're really looking at more about 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.440 the formation of the earliest galaxies. But yes, you know 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.240 that those would be of course, yeah, yeah, the earliest 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:40.840 star probably, So yeah, it's um, maybe we'll find out, 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.120 but yeah, it's it's the it's it's a really exciting idea, 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.000 the idea of being able to get a closer look 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.440 at these conditions because a lot of this just exists 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.959 right now in the realm of hypothesis or theory, where 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.559 we have done the calculations and we know what we 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.520 expect to find, but this will be the actual finding. Yeah. 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.720 So that's always exciting because that whole testing hypotheses through 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.960 observation exactly, and it may turn out that we see 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.360 things we didn't expect, which means we have to adjust 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.800 what we believe, which is really exciting. Yeah. So that's 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.920 what scientists absolutely love, um or at least I think 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.760 the theoretical ones do, right right, Um, Okay, So so 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.360 these mirrors that we're talking about, I mean Is it 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.520 the same stuff that's in my bathroom mirror? What's what's 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.520 up with these guys? No? No, no, no. So the 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:35.080 James Web Telescope we mentioned it has interlocking hexagonal mirrors, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.120 and that's so it can sort of fold out of 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.000 its cocoon like a butterfly when it reaches the place 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.640 in space where it needs to be. But the mirrors 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:48.720 are made out of BILLI um, okay like that stuff? 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:50.440 I mean you don't. You don't want to go breathing 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.040 a lot of berrillium dust? What that's about? All I 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:57.280 knew about burrillium? Yeah, I I know nothing about billium. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.440 I have no practice. Keep going to say berrillium sphere, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.520 but I'm almost certain that was in a Star Trek 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:09.640 episode actually, from what's that movie with with the Tim 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:14.720 Allen and oh Galaxy Quest? It always reminds me of 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:22.120 Sailor Moon. So, okay, let's let's science. So why beryllium 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.760 for the mirrors? Well, there are a lot of properties 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.880 about brillium that make it a really good idea to 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:29.840 use it in these mirrors. Number one is very light 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.199 and it's strong for its weight. But the telescope's mirror 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.800 also has to hold its shape at the cryogenic temperatures 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:38.400 in deep space, So this is going to be like 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:43.280 a negative four hundred degrees fahrenheit or negative trees. See, 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.880 at these extreme temperatures, most materials are going to contract 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.920 or change their volume, which is bad news if you're 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.400 talking about something that is going to allow you to 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.920 get a look at a distant universe. If the shape changes, 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.080 then clearly that that was like one of the issues 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:00.720 with the hubble. It was that it wasn't that the 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.839 mirrors shape changed, but because of that aberration, we didn't 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.400 get those clear pictures we were expecting. Yeah. Yeah, and 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.040 if you're if you don't remember from from last episode, 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.760 the fraction by which it was off was like some 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.920 some sliver of a human hair's width, and yet it 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:20.679 was sometimes beyond the accepted UH range of error. So 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.400 we're talking about an incredibly thin margin of error here. 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.640 Creating these telescopes require some really precision engineering. Yeah. So 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.480 so if the stuff to forms, that would be bad, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.920 but brillianm wouldn't do that. Well. It will deform, because 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.520 pretty much all materials will, but brillium holds up pretty 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:43.000 well comparatively. It will still deform. So the project engineers. 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.000 They were designing these mirrors, they had to test cool 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.760 them to the temperatures that they'll experience in deep space. 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.760 So they test them, they cool them down to those temperatures, 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.640 record the magnitude of the changes, and then pre correct 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.199 for those temperature based changes. Were polishing the mirrors in 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.840 the final stages of design, I imagine they must have 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.160 used liquid nitrogen will only get you down so cool. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.400 They must have had to use liquid helium to do that. 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.640 I really don't know what they mean. I think they 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.760 had to send them off to a separate facility for 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.200 the cooling. I imagine, so your average freezer does not 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.920 get down to min uh so. Anyway, what I'm trying 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.400 to convey is that getting something like this to work 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.160 is a marvel of modern science. It is a lot 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.720 of work. Even the smartest people among us are having 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.040 to do really hard work to make this work right, 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.320 and I think they deserve mega respect for what they're doing. Absolutely. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.640 And there are also one of the other things that 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.760 James Webb telescope is gonna be looking for We're gonna 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:45.960 be talking a lot about in this episode, which is 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.640 it's gonna look for the physical and chemical properties of exoplanets, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.600 and the hope there is that we might be able 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:58.200 to discover exo plants that are either already a habitat 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.520 for life or could be a potent ential habitats. Yeah. 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.800 So it's not the only space telescope out there that's 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:07.600 going to be doing this, or even I mean, there's 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.920 some some terrestrial ones that are going to be looking 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.120 for uh planets that could potentially support life as well. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.960 One of the other ones is the Advanced Technology Large 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.960 Aperture Space Telescope. Yeah, I've heard of this. So basically 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.240 this is a proposal that is for the further future 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.280 that goes even beyond the James Web right. It's and 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.520 it's an optical telescope, So we're still talking about looking 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:35.040 for light, whether it's visible spectrum yeah, yeah, well, or 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.360 it could be infrared. I mean, you know, optical does 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.400 not necessarily mean that it's not infrared, but it does. Uh. 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.720 It isn't looking for radio signatures or X rays or 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.920 anything like that. Um. And it's still in the design phase, 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.520 and it's supposed to look for the presence of life, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.120 among other things, on distant planets and and to remove 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.320 all ambiguity about it. You know, we often hear about 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.200 exoplants being discovered and then through analysis we try to 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.800 kind of determine what sort of chemicals might or might 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.200 not be present on that planet. This is supposed to 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.720 be a telescope that will be powerful enough for us 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.280 to get those answers without us saying, well, it probably 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.320 may be because you know, a lot of those upon 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.040 further study end up not panning out, or uh, it 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.720 turns out that we didn't have a good enough picture 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:25.840 of what we were looking at. In some cases, we 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.160 have exoplanets that you know, quote unquote exoplanets that we 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.520 have identified that have since disappeared, which may mean that 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:37.480 the original detection was an aberration itself. So this is 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:42.600 really meant to complex conclusions based on very limited data exactly, 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:46.280 and it it really does hammer home the fact that 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.520 we have to be careful about these kind of conclusions 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.400 and and for those of us in this room, we 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.960 have to be careful when we're reporting upon it to 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.240 make sure that we add that critical thinking layer and 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.320 say this is what it appears to be, but keep 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.000 in mind that until we have further observations, we cannot 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.439 be sure. So uh, that's just me trying to remind 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:13.240 myself to to practice good skills. Huh yeah. So the 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.240 acronym here is at last, which just makes me think 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.920 of Fitzgerald songs. But in fact that's all it's gonna 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.600 be playing deep in space. So if you were, if 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:24.560 you were able to put your ear right up against it, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.600 less sing the whole song. I'm not going to sing 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.640 the whole song. You already made fun to the end. 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.640 You made it fun of me for singing uh, oh 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.400 Susannah earlier. So listeners, you need to know this. Jonathan 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.960 Strickland knows the other stanzas to Oh Susanna. He knows 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.480 the ones beyond the first. Not only is he a 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.199 terrific podcast, what you're what you're telling them is that 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.159 I know the verses, not just the chorus. Yeah, that 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.680 might be right anyway, that that's beside the point. Let's 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.879 talk about telescope Okay, well alright, so so what the 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.600 deal last, Well, it's another ACID project. It's through the 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.639 Space Telescope Science Institute, which also does it did run 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:07.840 the Hubble program, and it's running the James Web Space 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.200 Telescope program as well. Um, and like you guys said, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.680 it's still in the design stage. The hope is that 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:19.080 it would be launching somewhere around like so it's still 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.680 pretty far out from the current day. Uh. And they're 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:27.080 entertaining three different mirror types right now, aiming for less 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.280 complexity and or mass than the Hubble and James Webb, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.160 but with better angular resolution and sensitivity like as much 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.520 as like like two thousand times the sensitivity of the Hubble, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.680 so it would be able to detect much fainter bodies 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.080 than would that that will become important to We'll be 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.040 talking about some telescopes that are going to be looking 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.880 at looking for stuff that a lot of other telescopes 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.960 will miss, but we really really need to know about them, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.080 right right, Yeah, you had a note in here about 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.320 how it's going to be looking for for biosignatures of life, Like, yeah, 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.480 it's like things like molecular oxygen, water and methane. This 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.480 is the sort of stuff that you know, again, we've 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.640 we've looked at like spectral analysis of exoplanets and said, oh, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.800 this might be methane on this planet, which would be 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.080 a biosignature that would be an indication that there's some 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:20.480 form of organic life. They're not necessarily the only source 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.439 of it. I feel like I've heard that about oxygen. Yeah, 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.679 I mean, because at least we know about Earth that 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.680 Earth didn't have an oxygen atmosphere until it was created 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.720 by I believe it was cyano back here. Yeah. And 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.000 then if you remember, you know, we've we've had some 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:40.760 close calls with detecting methane on on nearby bodies. Uh 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.400 not that long ago. That pan did not pan out 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.720 for us. You remember hearing about Mars and the supposed 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.280 detection of methane. Did we bring it with us? Yes, 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.240 we brought it with us. That was the problem. So 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.399 now in the case with telescopes, we don't have to 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.560 worry about that because we're just looking. We're not actually 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.600 sending a probe there what that could potentially end up 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:04.440 contaminating contaminating the sample exactly. Yeah. Um One interesting thing 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.439 that I was reading about when I read about this, 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.360 that I hadn't particularly thought about before, and it goes 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.840 back to what we were saying earlier about launching um SO. 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:14.880 One of the things that the designers have to think 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.479 about is how to get these giant suckers into space. 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.240 Um SO, two of their mere concepts here hypothetically compatible 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.280 with another thing that doesn't exist yet, which is NASA's 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.200 proposed Space Launch System or SLS, and um the third, 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.280 which I think is not really their favored design, would 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.320 be able to go up on one of the U. 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.040 S Air Force Department of Defense evolved expandable launch vehicles 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.960 like the Delta four and the Atlas five, which are 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.959 currently in use. So and we may also see something 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.920 like SpaceX step up and design either a vehicle specifically 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.720 for these or modifying one of their existing designs to 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.200 allow for this kind of thing, because we're already seeing 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:58.840 that sort of uh collaboration in getting astronauts to space. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.960 That was a pretty recent discussion where NASA said that 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:06.359 a SpaceX capsule would soon be taking astronauts up to 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.320 the International Space Station, which is pretty exciting stuff. So 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.159 we may see that as well. It's always kind of 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.080 terrifying to me whenever I read about one of these 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.800 really cool projects that is proposed and not yet developed 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.720 that is going to depend upon another really cool project 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.960 that's proposed but not yet developed, because if one or 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:28.080 the other falls through, then you don't have your project certainly. Yeah, 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.560 I mean, just you know, it just added another interesting 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:33.640 layer of it to me, which I guess is of course, 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:35.960 if you really think about it, it's obvious. But you know, 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.400 sitting there and saying like, well, so what we're gonna 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:42.840 do with this extremely expensive, like billion dollar, highly precise mirror. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.280 We're going to strap a lot of rocket fuel to it, um, 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:48.320 and then we're going to light a fire in the rockets. 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.399 Sounding a lot like a MythBusters episode right now, like 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:56.560 we've built this amazing thing, how do we blow it up? Uh? Now? 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.760 The next one I wanted to talk about, I imagine 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.040 the saying just kidding, we're going to hand it over 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:09.359 to the Russians. Also is the Transiting Exoplanets Survey Satellite 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.919 or TESTS, which I just like that acronym so. TESTS 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.080 is scheduled to launch in the near future and will 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.280 perform a survey of the sky in search of habitable 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.400 planets in the Goldilocks zone. So that's in that that 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.679 zone of orbits that we believe would be conducive to 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:29.679 supporting life based upon what we know from our sample 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:31.960 size of one planet that has life on it that 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.840