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Speaker 1: Or Hey, did you ever wish you had a different

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Speaker 1: kind of eyeball? Well, that's a weird question. I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty happy with my eyeballs right now. I like,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't want it to be cubic or you know,

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Speaker 1: any other shape rather than it's around. How about you?

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Speaker 1: I mean, my eyeballs are great, but there's just so

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Speaker 1: much that they miss them at the universe. You know,

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Speaker 1: they can't see infrared or ultra violet, or dark matter

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Speaker 1: or neutrinos or dark energy or all that great stuff.

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Speaker 1: But you can't see that you can, and you've been

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Speaker 1: holding out on us. Well, I guess I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you want your eyeballs to see more things?

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Speaker 1: Or do you want more eyeballs? Like, would you want

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Speaker 1: extra eyeballs for each of those types of light or things?

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Speaker 1: I wonder if I look more like a physics professor,

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Speaker 1: if I had four sets of eyeballs and even eat glasses,

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Speaker 1: you know, you would wouldn't just have four eyes, you

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Speaker 1: would have sixteen eyes, which would make me look like

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Speaker 1: four times as smart. Art. Well, it would definitely raise

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Speaker 1: your eye. Que Hi am r handmaker tennis and the

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Speaker 1: creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle

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Speaker 1: physicist and a professor at U C Irvine, and I

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Speaker 1: will always fund a grand proposal that tries to build

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Speaker 1: a new kind of eyeball. I thought you were gonna say,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna say you would find any proposal that makes

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Speaker 1: you want to have more eyes. Yeah, exactly, that's what

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Speaker 1: I mean. They don't have to be orbs implanted in

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Speaker 1: my physical wet wear. If we build a new kind

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Speaker 1: of technology that's sensitive to something new about the universe

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Speaker 1: and translates those signals into something we can understand, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of like an eyeball. Interesting. So if I sent

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Speaker 1: you an email proposing a seven billion dollar new kind

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Speaker 1: of eyeball, you would you would send me the money.

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Speaker 1: I will go to bout for you with the funding

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Speaker 1: agencies to fund that proposal, that they send it to

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Speaker 1: me for review, I will say fund fund fund No no, no.

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Speaker 1: That you said you would fund whatever proposal propos and

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Speaker 1: you kind of eyeball Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Please wait for

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Speaker 1: your check. Thanks. I look for it with my prototype eyeballs.

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Speaker 1: The Daniel Science Foundation might be in your junk mail folder.

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Speaker 1: Is that what the foundation does it just sends junk

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Speaker 1: mail encouraging people to make more eyeballs. Somebody's got to

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Speaker 1: do the hard work around here. But anyways, welcome to

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Speaker 1: our podcast. Daniel and Horror explain the universitate production of

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Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, in which we connect your eyeballs and

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Speaker 1: your earballs do all the interesting things going on out

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Speaker 1: there in the universe, the incredible cosmic rays streaking nearly

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Speaker 1: the speed of light through the universe, carrying with them

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Speaker 1: messages from the distant reaches of the cosmos, and bearing

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Speaker 1: secrets about strange physical processes. We try to digest all

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Speaker 1: of that information that's coming here to Earth and explain

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Speaker 1: all of it to you. Yeah, because it is a

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Speaker 1: pretty incredible universe full of things happening all the time,

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Speaker 1: every second of the day, every second of the night.

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Speaker 1: There is something going on in the universe, and it's

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Speaker 1: screaming for us to learn and discover it. That's right,

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Speaker 1: And almost everything out there in the universe produces some

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Speaker 1: kind of message. Is it a proton, is an electron?

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Speaker 1: Is it a photon, Is it a neutrino? Is it

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Speaker 1: dark matter? It always produces some kind of impact rippling

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Speaker 1: through the universe. And if clever apes on this third

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Speaker 1: planet from the Sun learned to listen to those messages,

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Speaker 1: they might just deduce some secrets of the universe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I think that's an interesting thing about the universe,

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Speaker 1: is that there's stuff happening all the time, and it

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Speaker 1: all has an effect on the rest of the universe, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: almost nothing happens that it doesn't affect anything else. Energy

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Speaker 1: is always flashing back and forth. Stars shootout energy, which

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Speaker 1: gets absorbed by other stuff, which heats up, which radiates

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Speaker 1: out energy. They're all these flows in the universe of

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Speaker 1: energy being released and captured and re released, an incredible

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Speaker 1: cosmic swirl. Yeah, there's stuff happening, and it's it's shooting

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Speaker 1: out stuff all the time, and we and we are

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Speaker 1: literally kind of bathd in information about the universe. All

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Speaker 1: that stuff is coming to us, passing through us. And

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Speaker 1: if we can only learn to see it, or at

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Speaker 1: least hear it in the right way with our earballs,

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Speaker 1: I guess we would learn a lot about the universe.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot about how our mental picture of

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Speaker 1: reality is determined by the senses that we have. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people are very visual, and so their mental

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Speaker 1: picture of how the universe looks depends on what they

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Speaker 1: are seeing, and they imagine that what they see is

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Speaker 1: what's there, and things they don't see aren't there. But

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Speaker 1: we know that there's a lot more going on in

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Speaker 1: the universe, that there are plenty of things out there

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Speaker 1: that we can't see with our eyeballs but are just

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Speaker 1: as real as the things that we can see. What

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Speaker 1: if you're more sort of touch oriented, what kind of

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Speaker 1: picture of the universe would you feel? I wonder about that.

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Speaker 1: For people who can't see, for example, what kind of

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Speaker 1: mental model of the universe they have. They must still

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Speaker 1: have some sort of three D model where they build

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Speaker 1: up shapes based on sound and touch and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of other clues. But I wonder if it's a very

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Speaker 1: different experience on their I really know, well, it is

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Speaker 1: a pretty incredible and exciting and active universe, and with

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things happening in it, and not more so,

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Speaker 1: are more fantastic or incredible than stars exploding or supernovas.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the most dramatic and least well understood

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Speaker 1: things that happened in the universe. At the end of

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Speaker 1: the life cycle of a star, sometimes they just go kaboom,

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Speaker 1: and they can shine briefly as bright or brighter than

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Speaker 1: the entire galaxy that they are in. Yet it's one

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Speaker 1: of the most explosive I guess events that can happen

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Speaker 1: in the universe, and it's kind of hard to believe

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Speaker 1: that we don't know a lot about them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when they happen, they're pretty bright, right, we can see

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Speaker 1: them all the way across from the next galaxy. They're

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Speaker 1: so bright, and they're really unusually transient. Most of the

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Speaker 1: things in the night sky just sit there and burn

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Speaker 1: and they're the same every day, every year. But supernova

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Speaker 1: are short lived that I light up the sky briefly

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Speaker 1: and then disappear. It's the kind of thing that's so

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Speaker 1: dramatic that you can actually find records of it in

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Speaker 1: ancient history. People like hundreds are even up to US

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago writing stories about these strange things that

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Speaker 1: appeared in the night sky. Wow. Can you imagine being

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Speaker 1: born at the time and looking up and then suddenly

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Speaker 1: this star starts burning super bright? What would you think

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Speaker 1: is going on? Would you freak out? It's hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine it because it's hard to put yourself in the

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Speaker 1: place of somebody who has no idea what the sky means, right,

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Speaker 1: They don't even know what a star was. I had

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Speaker 1: that same experience when I saw the eclipse birthand in

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Speaker 1: the path of totality. It was really an incredible experience,

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Speaker 1: and it made me wonder what it must have been

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Speaker 1: like twenty thousand years ago for stone age man to

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Speaker 1: look up and see this thing happening, and I thought

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Speaker 1: the world was ending. Clearly something important was going on

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Speaker 1: right right right, Or maybe they just thought that like, oh,

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Speaker 1: look it's Zeus, or look it's mercury taking off its start. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or somebody out there knows what I did, right, Every

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Speaker 1: guilty person on the planet was like, oh, I've been caught.

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Speaker 1: This is my fault. It's shining a spotline exactly. And

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Speaker 1: so in the same way, if you look the nights guy,

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Speaker 1: you see a supernova, what do you think? It depends

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Speaker 1: on what you think a star is. And those folks

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Speaker 1: are so ignorant they had no idea what they were

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Speaker 1: looking at, And of course that makes me project forward.

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Speaker 1: You know, what weird things are we seeing in the

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Speaker 1: sky that we just don't really understand at all. And

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Speaker 1: in a thousand years, people will look back and be like, wow,

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Speaker 1: Daniel was so clueless. He had no idea what he

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Speaker 1: was looking at. Like yeah, Like if you extrapolate the

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Speaker 1: progress of science since human knowledge into the future, like

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Speaker 1: who knows what we're going to know in the future, right,

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Speaker 1: maybe everything? Yeah, And who knows what ideas we have

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Speaker 1: today that we take for granted will be overturned by

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Speaker 1: some crazy discovery. Maybe in ten years, maybe in a

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Speaker 1: hundred years, our entire picture of the cosmos could be

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Speaker 1: totally upended. Are you gonna be able like one of

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Speaker 1: those science fiction movies where you go like, oh, in

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Speaker 1: fifteen years, we'll be riding around in flying cars and

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Speaker 1: know the secrets of the universe. And then fifteen years

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Speaker 1: go by and nothing has happened. I hope not. But

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Speaker 1: you know, it is research, and so it's hard to predict.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really align with quarterly reports and predictions and

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. You just never know. The frustrating

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Speaker 1: thing about research, and this is what my grad students

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Speaker 1: have to learn, is that time spent is not equal

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Speaker 1: to progress made. Right, You can be busy, busy, busy, busy,

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Speaker 1: and get nowhere and then one afternoon, boom, it all

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Speaker 1: clicks together, and that's why research is not for everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess past performance is no indication of future returns, right,

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Speaker 1: definitely not, definitely not. But the exciting thing about astrophysics

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Speaker 1: and cosmology is that we do know that we know

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Speaker 1: very little about the universe. We know that most of

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Speaker 1: the things going on out there are things we don't understand,

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Speaker 1: which gives us you no hope that we will figure

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Speaker 1: something out. At least there is something out there to learn,

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Speaker 1: even if we're not quite sure exactly the way to

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Speaker 1: unravel the mystery. Yeah, And so it's interesting that we

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Speaker 1: don't know a lot about its supernova. It's a kind

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Speaker 1: of a big explosion, but it's it's there's still a

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Speaker 1: lot that we don't know about them, and it might

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Speaker 1: be because maybe we're not looking at them in the

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Speaker 1: right way. Yeah, the way that we look at the

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Speaker 1: universe with eyes and ears and touch and telescopes to

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Speaker 1: see mostly pote Hans, it's just one slice of the universe,

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Speaker 1: and if you look at it in other ways, you

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Speaker 1: see a totally different universe. Yeah. But just to make

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Speaker 1: sure we haven't touched any supernose happening, there's a big

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Speaker 1: sign on it says do not touch, and I always

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Speaker 1: try to follow the rules. You're kind of pedantic in

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Speaker 1: that way, Yeah, exactly. But you know, depending on the

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Speaker 1: eyeball you use to look at the universe, even when

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Speaker 1: it comes to photons, if you look in the infrared

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Speaker 1: or the ultra violet or the visible light, you see

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Speaker 1: a very different kind of universe because the different processes.

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Speaker 1: The stuff you were talking about earlier, the stuff that's

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Speaker 1: always going on in the universe, shines in different kinds

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Speaker 1: of light. But going beyond that, stuff in the universe

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Speaker 1: can shine in things that are not even light. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so supernova do that. They produce not just visible light,

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Speaker 1: but all kinds of light and all kinds of particles

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Speaker 1: that might be able to tell us what's going on

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Speaker 1: during those crazy events. And so today on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: we'll be asking the question what can nutrinos ellas about

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Speaker 1: super novas? And how do we get a neutrino to

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Speaker 1: appear on the program to answer these questions? Would you

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Speaker 1: have any opinions or would you be neutral about everything?

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Speaker 1: They're so weak? Oh boy, that is a deep physics

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Speaker 1: joke right there. We won't even bother explaining it until later,

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Speaker 1: But I had a more basic question, Daniels, it's supernovas

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Speaker 1: or super nova? I think those who have learned Latin

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Speaker 1: will write in and say it's super nova with an

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Speaker 1: a E at the end. But I'm pretty sure I

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Speaker 1: hear physicists say supernovas all the time. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: it's a good idea to correct them. Why not? Physicists

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Speaker 1: don't like to be corrected. So what you're saying not

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Speaker 1: on the pedantic actually it's pronounced supernovae doesn't meanly go

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Speaker 1: over very well in a seminar. Well. I've recently discovered that,

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Speaker 1: you know, fungas, you can say fun guy, or you

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Speaker 1: can just say funguses. Fungus is that is a terrible

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Speaker 1: sounding word. Yeah, it's optional in the English language at least,

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Speaker 1: But fun guy is so much funner because it sounds

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Speaker 1: like you're a fun guy. I know, right, But you know,

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Speaker 1: but if your name is Gus, then it's also good

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Speaker 1: to be one of the fun Gusses. I see. I

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Speaker 1: guess that could be the name of a band made

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Speaker 1: all of gusses, right, ten fun Gusses, the Fuses. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that they'll sell out in no time. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: they'll be opening for the Grateful Dads sometime soon. Oh hey,

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Speaker 1: they're probably better anyways, so we might be the opening act.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, it is kind of interesting to think that

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Speaker 1: a supernova not just produces visible light in a big

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Speaker 1: flash that we can see with our eyes, but it

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Speaker 1: also produces a whole bunch of other things that maybe

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Speaker 1: we can use to learn what's inside of him. And

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Speaker 1: so Daniel went out there into the wilds of the

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Speaker 1: internet to ask listeners what do neutrinas teach us about supernova?

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much to everybody who volunteered, and if

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Speaker 1: you are a listener who has never participated, please write

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Speaker 1: to us two questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

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Speaker 1: We would love to have your voice on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Think about it for a second. What do you think

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Speaker 1: we can learn about supernova from neutrinos. Here's what people

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Speaker 1: had to say. I remember seeing a documentary or something

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Speaker 1: a few years back about using trinos to see on

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Speaker 1: the to see what goes on on the inside of

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Speaker 1: stars image And when a supernova explodes, it puts out

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Speaker 1: just massive amounts of neutrinos and they sail through everything.

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Speaker 1: So if we could detect them and read their states.

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Speaker 1: That probably give us a lot of really good information

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Speaker 1: about what's going on inside of a supernova. I guess

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Speaker 1: they'd tell us the direction of the supernova because they

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Speaker 1: both fly through anything in spice and arrive at protector,

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Speaker 1: and they would car light in an energy sense with

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Speaker 1: the size of the bluff in some way. Putrinos probably

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Speaker 1: come in slightly different frequencies and different energy levels, different

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Speaker 1: so other qualities perhaps, and depending on exactly the type

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Speaker 1: of supernova that occurs, perhaps the new trino's can give

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Speaker 1: us a bit of information about how big these star

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Speaker 1: wars that exploded, or if it was a particular type

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Speaker 1: of explosion. I imagine they can probably give us quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of information. Maybe they tell us what kind

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Speaker 1: of nuclear reactions have occurred during this explosion, which would

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Speaker 1: tell us the composition and size of the star. From

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Speaker 1: what I know, the no can tell us what happened

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Speaker 1: after the supernova, if we have a neutron star, if

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Speaker 1: we have a black hole. Probably, but for sure I

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Speaker 1: know that it can tell us if we have a

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Speaker 1: neutron star after a supernova. So what I know about

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Speaker 1: supernova first of all is that they're basically a star

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Speaker 1: that exploded, and it sends off thousands of solar masses

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Speaker 1: of particles and material, and it also sends out a

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Speaker 1: lot of energy, like a lot of energy. And what

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Speaker 1: I'm imagining is since neutrinos are so incredibly small and

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Speaker 1: they could go and travel through even all of Earth

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Speaker 1: without even hitting a single atom and Earth, then that

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Speaker 1: means they're moving incredibly fast and there's a lot of them.

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Speaker 1: So if neutrinos, which we know quite a bit about

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Speaker 1: and how they're given off from certain particles, reach us

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Speaker 1: from supernova, I guess it could tell us what was

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Speaker 1: in that star and what that explosion was. Like, these

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Speaker 1: are some amazing answers. Yeah, they're pretty specific and pretty

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Speaker 1: um physics sounding to meaning I mean like did they

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Speaker 1: actually like give you a good ideas there? They're not

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Speaker 1: just physics sounding their physics containing. I mean, these are

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Speaker 1: really insightful answers. After I got these, I thought, Wow,

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Speaker 1: did I accidentally email like a neutrino physics conference, Like

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Speaker 1: these folks know what they're talking about? Wow? Cool? And

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Speaker 1: then you wrote down the ideas and you're going to

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Speaker 1: use them for research and not credit that. That's right.

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Speaker 1: I got seven billion dollars neutrino telescope funded based on

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Speaker 1: these ideas. Good is it all because of my letter

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Speaker 1: that I sent you? That's right, I want to cut them.

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Speaker 1: I'm still waiting for the first check from the Daniel

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Speaker 1: Science Foundation hasn't arrived. Yeah, and got a junk mail

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Speaker 1: from yourself, he said, so, but it's so easy. I

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Speaker 1: have very serious doubts about this foundation. Now you can't

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Speaker 1: even send itself its own junk mail. I'm starting to

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Speaker 1: get the same feeling. But anyways, supernova are pretty incredible events,

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Speaker 1: and so maybe let's just take it back to the

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Speaker 1: basic level and it's still our listeners. What a supernova is.

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Speaker 1: Supernova is an exciting moment in the life cycle of

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Speaker 1: a star. It's a huge explosion that blows out most

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Speaker 1: of the matter and releases an enormous amount of energy

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Speaker 1: that was stored in the star. And depending on the

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Speaker 1: kind of star that you have that you start with,

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Speaker 1: you can get supernova's in two basic ways. One is

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Speaker 1: you can just have like a really big star, and

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Speaker 1: remember that what happens at the heart of stars because

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Speaker 1: of incredible gravitational pressure and high temperatures, is that you're

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Speaker 1: fusing lighter elements into heavier elements. At some point, those

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Speaker 1: elements get so heavy that when you fuse them, you

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Speaker 1: don't get energy. You lose energy, and the heart of

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Speaker 1: the star starts to cool and can no longer support

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Speaker 1: itself against gravity, and then it collapses and you get

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Speaker 1: this huge supernova that's called a core collapse supernova. And

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Speaker 1: there's another kind where it doesn't quite have enough mass

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Speaker 1: in order to have a core collapse supernova. It sits

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Speaker 1: there as a white dwarf for a little while, and

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Speaker 1: then somebody comes along and gives it some extra fuel

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Speaker 1: triggers the supernova, and then it collapses. And so you

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Speaker 1: get this gravitational collapse towards the heart of the star,

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Speaker 1: which creates this incredible high temperature and pressure situation and boom,

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Speaker 1: all the fuel very quickly undergoes fusion, and you get

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Speaker 1: an incredible explosion of all that energy in a very

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Speaker 1: very short amount of time. Yeah, but I guess, just

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Speaker 1: to be clear, not every star goes supernova, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's actually kind of a rare thing for us are

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Speaker 1: to explode, that's right. It doesn't happen very often. If

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Speaker 1: you have a galaxy of about a hundred billion stars,

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Speaker 1: you'll only get about one to three supernova's per century,

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Speaker 1: so it's an unusual outcome. A lot more often, for example,

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Speaker 1: a red dwarf will just turn into a white dwarf

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Speaker 1: and not go supernova, or like, our son is not

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Speaker 1: gonna explode, it's just gonna kind of puff up and

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Speaker 1: then kind of go out, and just similar for forever.

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Speaker 1: You know, our star's endpoint is likely to be a

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Speaker 1: white dwarf, which is just hot lump of metal, you

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Speaker 1: know it just like with a core collapse supernova. It's burned,

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Speaker 1: it's fused, and then the byproducts of that fusion are

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Speaker 1: things it can no longer burn, and then eventually it

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Speaker 1: just goes out. By going out, we mean it's no

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Speaker 1: more fusion. It's still like a big hot lump. And

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Speaker 1: that's what a white dwarf is, is just like a

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Speaker 1: big glowing blob of fusion remnants which can no longer

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Speaker 1: burn anymore, but it sits there glowing for like a

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Speaker 1: trillion years until eventually becomes a black dwarf. Right, our

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Speaker 1: son has headed to be a hot mess, just like

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Speaker 1: most stars here on Earth as well. That's right, you're

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Speaker 1: turn that your career can end without a huge explosion

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Speaker 1: and just sort of fezzle out. Yeah, I thank you hopefully.

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Speaker 1: You know, I always hope for an uninteresting life, right.

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Speaker 1: Something I think is super interesting is that it's very

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Speaker 1: hard for us to predict when a star will go supernova.

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Speaker 1: So it's the kind of thing we usually just see afterwards.

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Speaker 1: It's not like we can say, oh, that star over

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Speaker 1: there is going to go supernova in seventeen days, let's

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Speaker 1: all point our telescopes at it. It's the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing we're like, whoa, look at that star. It just

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Speaker 1: went supernova. Quick point your telescope so we can catch

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Speaker 1: the last bits of it. Right. It's kind of unpredictable

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Speaker 1: when it happens, but it's it's not like it's random either, right,

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Speaker 1: Like it only happens in certain kinds of stars. Like

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Speaker 1: if you can something see a star and no, oh

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Speaker 1: that one's not gonna go supernova, or you can see

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Speaker 1: another star and say, oh that one can and might

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Speaker 1: one day go supernova. Yeah, but of the hundred billion stars,

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Speaker 1: it's not easy to predict which one is going to

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Speaker 1: go supernova. Part of that is because we don't understand

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Speaker 1: the life cycle of stars. Well enough to know like

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Speaker 1: which ones are going to go supernova, and it's not

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Speaker 1: easy to predict when they're going to go super nova.

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Speaker 1: So even if you're pretty sure that this star is

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Speaker 1: big enough and it's eventually going to go supernova, knowing

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Speaker 1: when that's going to happen is hard to predict. And

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Speaker 1: that's because we don't have a grasp on a lot

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Speaker 1: of the complex physics, and it depends a lot on

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Speaker 1: these physics. It's like predicting a hurricane. You know, can

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Speaker 1: you predict the path of a hurricane. There's no like

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Speaker 1: weird new quantum physics going on. It's just a lot

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Speaker 1: of calculations and the result is very sensitive to the details.

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Speaker 1: In the same way like can you predict when a

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Speaker 1: star is going to collapse? It depends on so much

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Speaker 1: crazy nuclear physics and really high density, high temperature situations

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Speaker 1: that we just can't describe yet, but I guess you can.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is you can sort of rule out

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Speaker 1: whole categories of stars from going supernova, and so there

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Speaker 1: is a certain category of stars that can go supernova.

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Speaker 1: That's true, although even the ones that you think can't

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Speaker 1: go supernova, like our son could eventually go supernova, Like

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Speaker 1: our son is gonna be a white dwarf if it

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Speaker 1: later acquired a binary star partner, like some other star

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Speaker 1: came nearby and they're orbiting near each other, and our son,

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Speaker 1: the white dwarf, stole a bunch of gas from this

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Speaker 1: new partner. It could then become a Type one A supernova.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes it's like this ramp them back to supernovas,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty hard to predict, but those are extraordinary events,

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Speaker 1: Like you need a whole another star to be to

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Speaker 1: come to our solar system. Yeah, that's true, you need

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Speaker 1: a whole of the star. Remember though, that a lot

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Speaker 1: of stars out there are in binary systems, and so

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of white dwarfs out there that could

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Speaker 1: potentially go Type one A supernova. I think it's super

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Speaker 1: cool because we have never seen the progenitor of a

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Speaker 1: supernova like we've seen them after the fact. We've never

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Speaker 1: had like a zoomed in, close up study of a

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Speaker 1: star just before it goes supernova because we've never been

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Speaker 1: able to predict when it was going to happen. M M,

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Speaker 1: I see interesting, all right, Well, just because they're rare

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're not cool. In fact, that just makes

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Speaker 1: them more special, right, and harder to to spot and

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Speaker 1: to study them. And these extreme events are sort of

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Speaker 1: the perfect laboratory for understanding what's going on inside the star,

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Speaker 1: Like how do you trigger a collapse? When does the collapse?

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Speaker 1: What's going on in the collapse? Can you understand how

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Speaker 1: our shock wave of propagates through this crazy material? What

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Speaker 1: we're interested in understanding is like what happens when all

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Speaker 1: these forces are at play, Like inside a supernova you

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Speaker 1: have gravity, you have the strong force from the quirks,

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Speaker 1: you have the weak force producing neutrinos. You have electromagnetism

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Speaker 1: because everything's charged, so you have all the forces sort

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Speaker 1: of at play at the same time. It's a great

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Speaker 1: opportunity to understand those things or to probe those things

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Speaker 1: if you can get enough data, if you can say,

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Speaker 1: like what's going on inside the star? That's why it's

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Speaker 1: a very exciting thing to study. Yeah, it's always a surprise,

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Speaker 1: I guess, I mean, is he kid? And you never

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Speaker 1: know when they're gonna happen. All right, let's dig into

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Speaker 1: a little bit more into supernova and how many we've

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Speaker 1: seen over the course of human history, and then let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what neutrinos can tell us about them. But

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Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break. All right, we're talking

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00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: about the neutrinos that come from a supernova and what

429
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: they could tell us about what a supernova is all about,

430
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: because they're surprising events in the universe and we've never

431
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: actually seen one, I guess close up or in slow

432
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: motion because they just happened, like trying to catch a

433
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: close up film of a popcorn popping kind of you

434
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: never know which which colonel is gonna pop exactly after

435
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: it pops, you can then point your camera at it,

436
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: right or yes. And one of the issues is that

437
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: supernova are so rare that they don't happen very close

438
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: to us very often. It's also good news because if

439
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: a supernova went off, you wouldn't be hearing this podcast.

440
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 1: You know, we'd be fry. Yeah, you don't want to

441
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: too close up of a supernova, right, It would be

442
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 1: the last thing you see exactly, which means that if

443
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: you want a close up view of a star that's

444
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: about to go supernova, you have to focus one of

445
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: our space telescopes at it, and they can only look

446
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: really really deep at a very small patch of the sky,

447
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: and so you basically have to know where to look

448
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: or build like zillions more space telescopes to look at

449
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: the whole sky simultaneous, which, of course you know the

450
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: Daniel Science Foundation would be very excited to fund. Well,

451
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: you really tuned this foundation. But do you admit it's

452
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: all a scamp. So I'm not sure what it's just

453
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: my fantasy foundation. You know, maybe some billionaire who's listening

454
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: will think that guy really knows how to do science.

455
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to write him a check for fifty billion dollars.

456
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: Maybe that guy really clearly knows how to run a foundation.

457
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: I'll put him in charge. Exactly. This guy is confidence inducing.

458
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 1: Let me just write him a check. I see most

459
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: people play fantasy football, but physicists play fantasy foundation. Is

460
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: that what it is? What you're saying. So you get together,

461
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: you you make imaginary bets and on what science is

462
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: going to get funded? Yeah, but you know, the most

463
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: tantalizing and frustrating part of that is, while you might

464
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: never be a pro athlete, like you fantasize all of

465
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: these dreams about understanding the universe are really attainable, Like

466
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos really could buy us knowledge about the universe.

467
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: The only thing standing between us and understanding so many

468
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: things about the universe is a couple of dudes, right,

469
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: a couple of big checks. We know what to do,

470
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: we know how to do it, we just need the cash.

471
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: So it's frustrating to me that these fantasies are actually attainable. Well,

472
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: I'm confused, Daniel. Earlier you were saying that you can't

473
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: promise that you're going to get results with research, that

474
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: time doesn't equal results, But now you're saying money does

475
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: equal results. Or is that is that just what the

476
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: foundation says. Let's do the experiment and find out, you know,

477
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: send me the money. We'll see. Now, it's true that

478
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: you can't promise anything, and we could build like a

479
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: hundred new hubbles and seeing nothing interesting. But every time

480
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: we look out into the universe, we always find something

481
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: weird and surprising and bonkers that up ends our ideas.

482
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: And so I'm pretty confident that continued research will reveal something.

483
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: But yes, I won't make any actual promises any you

484
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: won't sign any legal contract now, but I'm all forced

485
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: off of funding science for sure, and it teaches incredible

486
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: things like the about supernovas, which is kind of interesting

487
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: to think that most are all supernovs really come from

488
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: a collapse, you know, like we tend to think of

489
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: explosions that's just things that react and then spew out

490
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: a bunch of energy. But actually all supernovaus, all right,

491
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: start off as as collapsing stars. The collapse, and the

492
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: key thing to understand there is that what happens inside

493
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: of the star depends on the temperature and the pressure,

494
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: like can you fuse hydrogen or can you fuse all

495
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: the way up to carbon or even further up the

496
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: periodic table. It just depends on the pressure and the temperature.

497
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: So the higher the temperature, the higher the pressure conditions

498
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: that you create, the more crazy things that could happen

499
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: inside that star. And so typically sort of steady state,

500
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: but as supernova, as you say, starts with the collapse,

501
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: which creates this incredible high temperature and high pressure inside

502
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: the star, and you can like burn a huge fraction

503
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: of the fuel inside the star in just seconds instead

504
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: of millions or billions of years. And that's why they're

505
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: so luminous, right, because that's kind of what's going on.

506
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: It's like in this when the star is just burning.

507
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: It doesn't have enough pressure and deeed to to fuse

508
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: some of the heavier elements. But when collapses, then you

509
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: have those conditions and then it all happens at the

510
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: same time, like in the type one a supernova. Typically

511
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: these are blobs made of carbon and oxygen, and they're

512
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: not hot enough to fuse carbon. But as soon as

513
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: they get over the tipping point, they get it just

514
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: enough gravity, it collapses and then all of a sudden,

515
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: boom fuses like a huge fraction, like a half or

516
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: a third of that carbon in a very brief amount

517
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: of time. And that's basically an explosion. Right. The difference

518
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: between a nuclear reactor and a nuclear bomb is whether

519
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: it's like a chain reaction and runaway explosion. And that's

520
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: what happens at the heart of a supernova when you

521
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: create conditions from the collapse, So you got to collapse

522
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: inwards and then a shock wave outwards. Yeah, it's like

523
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: a bounce, almost like a super bounce. It's a super bounce.

524
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: And people who do modeling of this stuff they try

525
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: to understand exactly what is happening. It's really complicated physics.

526
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: You know, are the photons getting absorbed by the iron.

527
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: Is it breaking up the iron which is causing this?

528
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: You know, whenever we do physics modeling, we can never

529
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: describe everything that's going on. It's just too many crazy details.

530
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: We always have to make judicious choices, like we think

531
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: it's a combination of these things and those things. And

532
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: so what they do is they develop these complicated models

533
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: and then they make predictions and they say, okay, well

534
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: the supernova should be this brighter, should last this long.

535
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: But the problem is we don't have that many observations

536
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: of supernova and we can't see inside them. We can

537
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: only basically see the light that they admit, well maybe

538
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: illuminate us. And what are some of the things we

539
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: don't know about supernova? Like we there's a lot we

540
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: don't understand about them, and what are some of these things?

541
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: So a lot of the things we don't understand us

542
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: about supernova involved what triggers that collapse, you know, what

543
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: is going on there, what makes that happen? How exactly

544
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: does that shock wave propagate to the core, how far

545
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: in does it get before the core starts to ignite?

546
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: And pushes back this question about when that turns around,

547
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: when them bounce exactly happens that we don't really understand.

548
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: But you know, more deeply than that, we just don't

549
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: understand matter at this density. You know, we think we understand,

550
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: for example, what happens when you take three quarks and

551
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: you put them together you get a proton or a neutron.

552
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: What hapens when you squeeze those protons and neutrons are

553
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: really really close together, so that it's more like a

554
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 1: six cork particle. Now do that with like a billion quarks.

555
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: What does that look like. It's the same kind of

556
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: question we ask about what's going on inside a neutron

557
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: star or what form of matter is happening inside a

558
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: black hole? These are all the same kinds of questions.

559
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: What happens when you squeeze things are really high temperatures

560
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: and pressures, and at lower energies. You know, we have

561
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: some ideas of the kind of things that happened, like

562
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: structures emerge. You get crystals of one temperature, and you

563
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: get gas at other temperatures, and you get fluids at

564
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: other temperatures. So there might be like whole new states

565
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: of matter that can be described by interesting new equations

566
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: that we've just never seen before, and this is the

567
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: way to probe it, to like say, what's going on

568
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: inside there? Well, create a shock wave that passes through it,

569
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: and let's understand how that chock wave propagates. And they

570
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: can tell you something about the phase of matter inside. Right.

571
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: It can maybe even tell us a little bit about

572
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: the Big Bang, right, because during the Big Bang you

573
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: also have these crazy conditions kind of like maybe what

574
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: do you see inside of a supernova? Yeah, the Big

575
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: Bang is like a huge supernova exactly. And it's very

576
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: hard for us to model those very early moments of

577
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: the universe because the forces are very very strong, very powerful.

578
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: And usually when we do modeling, we'd like to make

579
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: assumptions like we can ignore this, and we can ignore that,

580
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: we can ignore this other piece because it'd be too

581
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: complicated to model. But when everything is dense and all

582
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: the forces are at play, you can't ignore any of

583
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: those details, and the details really matter. You get them

584
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: a little bit wrong and your whole model is wrong.

585
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: So it's a very very challenging kind of thing to model,

586
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: and it's a kind of thing we'd really like to

587
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: learn about because we want to understand what the universe

588
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: was like in its first moments and what happens when

589
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: you squeeze matter to incredible densities. Yeah, and sometimes, like

590
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, studying matter under those extreme conditions tell you

591
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: a lot about the matter itself, right like, your theories

592
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: can only go so far. There's a lot you can

593
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: learn about even like a person under extreme conditions, right Like,

594
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: it gives you a bigger picture about the matter. Absolutely,

595
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: And that's exactly why we have our series of podcast

596
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: about extreme conditions, like how strong can a magnet we'll get?

597
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: Or how fast can you get something spitting? And the

598
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: reason is those extremes tell you what the rules are,

599
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: and they tell you what the boundary conditions are for

600
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: the universe. That says you can't go faster than this,

601
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: or you can't have something denser than this, And those

602
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: are the places when the universe illuminates the edge cases.

603
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: Right it tells you exactly how things operate. Well, one

604
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: thing we do know about supernovas or supernova is that

605
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: they produced neutrinos and a lot of neutrinos, and then

606
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: those neutrinos might tell us kind of about what's going

607
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: on inside of the explosion. Yeah, I love neutrinos. They

608
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: are fascinating particle. They appear in all the like core

609
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: mysteries of the universe, not even just talking about like

610
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: astrophysics and supernovas. Just from a pure particle physics point

611
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: of view, neutrinos are super fascinating. That's sort of the

612
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: least well understood particle of all the particles that we

613
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: have discovered. Yeah, they're pretty mysterious and ghostily. But so

614
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: maybe tell us what do we know about neutrinos? What

615
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: are they? For those of those who, um, maybe I

616
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: don't know. The trinos are fascinating little particle. You're probably

617
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: familiar with the up cork and the down cork, which

618
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: make up the proton and the neutron that's in the

619
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: nucleus of the atom, and then around the atom you

620
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: have electrons of course, so those are the three particles

621
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: you need to make up like normal matter. But there's

622
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: another particle out there that's part of this core set,

623
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: and that's the neutrino that's paired with the electron. And

624
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 1: it's not part of the atom, like you are not

625
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: made out of neutrinos in any sense, but it's a

626
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: particle that sort of can exist in nature's menu and

627
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: it turns out there's lots of particles out there which

628
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: can exist. There's sort of like on the menu of

629
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: the universe, but don't exist under normal circumstances. Neutrinos are

630
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: especially weird kind because they ignore most of the forces

631
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: in the universe. Like they don't feel electromagnetism because they're neutral, right,

632
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: No trino means little neutral particle in Italian. And they

633
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: don't feel the strong force, right, they don't have a color.

634
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: Those the two most powerful forces in universe. So all

635
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: they're left with is the weak force. And of course gravity,

636
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 1: which is like so ridiculously weak we don't even think

637
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: about it when it comes to particles. So neutrinos are

638
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: these little neutral particles that only feel the weak force.

639
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: It's almost like they're ignoring the rest of the universe

640
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: in a way, right, Like most of the universe, like

641
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: our particles talked to each other through these other forces.

642
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: But Newtinas are like, Nope, I'm just not gonna check

643
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: Twitter or Facebook. I'm just gonna only accept handwritten letters

644
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: unless they're junk male from the Daniel Foundation. Yeah, and

645
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, the neutrino was actually discovered by a professor

646
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: here at UC Irvine, for which he won the Nobel Prize.

647
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: And in my office I can often hear tours of

648
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: campus going by, and as they pass the physics building,

649
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: they say, and this is Ryness Hall, named after Fred Ryness,

650
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: who discovered the neutrino, the smallest fundamental particle. That always

651
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: makes me cringe because I'm like, the neutrino is not

652
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: smaller than the electron or the quirk. They're all the

653
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: same size, they're all points. But they call it the

654
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: smallest particle because of its ability to pass us through stuff.

655
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: Because it only feels the weak force, it can pass

656
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: through an incredible amount of matter without interacting with it. Well,

657
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: it's also small in this sense that it has very

658
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: little mass, right, Like it does feel gravity, but it's

659
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: just has very little mass for it to kind of

660
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: obey gravity. That's right. It does have non zero mass.

661
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: Like we know neutrinos have some mass, but we don't

662
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: know exactly what their masses. But they are very very small,

663
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: especially compared to the electron. Wait, did you say neutrinos

664
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: are very small? Their mass is very small, especially compared

665
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: to the electron. But you know they're not the lowest

666
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: mass particle right photons and zero mass blue ones have

667
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: zero mass. The reason people call them small, I think,

668
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: is because they're trying to understand how it is. And

669
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: neutrino can like pass through the entire Earth without even noticing.

670
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: They wanted to like slip through all those particles and

671
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: like slide around them without interacting. But a better way

672
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: to think about it is in terms of like transparency.

673
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: You know, light can go through your window without interacting

674
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: with glass. It can pass through right or through the air.

675
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: The air is transparent to light. It's not like the

676
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: lightest sliding around and avoiding all those molecules. It just

677
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: doesn't interact with them. It doesn't have the right frequency

678
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: to get absorbed by those molecules. And so those molecules

679
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: just ignore each other. They pass right through each other.

680
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: And that's what's happening with neutrinos. Neutrinos see the whole

681
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: universe as almost transparent, right, so they just pass right

682
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: through without even noticing. Yeah, they're just ignoring everyone. Everyone's like, hey,

683
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: talk to us with this strong force or the electroman

684
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: game for us, and they're like, nope, which is cruising

685
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: through you said, they're related to the electron. What does

686
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: that mean? Or they're paired with the electron, what does

687
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: that mean. We have all these rules and particle physics

688
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: about like what can decay into what? And for example,

689
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: a W boson it can decay into an upcork and

690
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: a down cork. You can also decay into an electron

691
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: and an electron neutrino. So the electron and electron neutrino

692
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: sort of like paired together by the W. W can't

693
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: for example, to came into an up cork and a

694
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: neutrino or a down cork and an electron, and so

695
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: they have this sort of relationship in the weak force

696
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 1: of the electron and the neutrino have exactly one electric

697
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: charge step between them negative one and zero, just like

698
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: the down cork and the upcork have an exactly one

699
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: electric charge between them. So we group them together into

700
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,479
Speaker 1: these pairs for that reason. They're sort of like made

701
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: together or they go well together. Yeah, And for those

702
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: of you who think quantum mechanically and in terms of

703
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: quantum fields, you know, the W particle sort of like

704
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: raises an electron into a neutrino, or the other W

705
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: can turn in a neutrino into an electron. It's sort

706
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: of like converts these fields from one to the other.

707
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: Or if you remember our episode about gauge symmetry, like

708
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: the whole reason we have forces and force particles is

709
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: to preserve these weird symmetries that fill all of space. Well,

710
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 1: the w particle does that, and it pairs the neutrino

711
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: and the electron together. They have a symmetry together, the

712
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: electron and the neutrino. I see the like the neutrino

713
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: doesn't pair us well with others. It somehow kind of

714
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: in the same category as electrons. Yeah, and we have

715
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: this thing called electron number, which is conserved, Like you

716
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: can't increase or decrease the number of electrons in the universe,

717
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: but neutrinos are a counted as electrons for that category. Interesting,

718
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: it's like a non non electron electron and the muon

719
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: and the tow which is like the weird heavy versions

720
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: of the electron. They have their own neutrino. There's a

721
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: muon neutrino and a tow neutrino, and there's a number

722
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: of muons that's conserved in the universe, and a number

723
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: of towels, and so each of those is paired with

724
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: their own lepton in that way, all right, So they're

725
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: ghostly particles that go through the universe, ignoring everybody else,

726
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: it seems. But what's weird is that they're produced um

727
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: not just in supernova, but they're produced by our son.

728
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: Like our son produces a huge amount of neutrinos, and

729
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: so it's weird to think that something in our universe

730
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: that likes to talk to us, that has electromagnetic forces

731
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: and all the other forces make make things that then

732
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 1: ignore the forces. Yeah, our Sun, it turns out, produces

733
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: an incredible number of neutrinos. It's like you know, you're

734
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: following somebody on Instagram and then you discover, oh my god,

735
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: they're huge on TikTok and I never even knew. Our

736
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: son produces so many new trinos that even here on

737
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: Earth there are a hundred billion passing through your fingernail

738
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: every second. So a hundred billion per square centimeter per

739
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: second is the flux on Earth. Now, imagine like how

740
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: many neutrinos passed through a square centimeter if you're right

741
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: on the surface of the Sun. It's just mind boggling.

742
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: How many there are because, as you said, like during

743
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: in these sort of like quantum or particle reactions, they

744
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: just get produced along with all the other stuff that

745
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: gets produced in these reactions. Yeah, the fusion that happens

746
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: inside the Sun, and this is not even during a supernova,

747
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: just normal everyday burning of the Sun also involves the

748
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: weak force, which means that neutrinos are produced. Can't remove

749
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: an electron without producing a new trino for example, because

750
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: of this conservation of the number of electrons, which includes neutrinos,

751
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: weirdly do you end up with lots of neutrinos produced

752
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: in those reactions. And one thing I think is super

753
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: cool is that if you only have a neutrino detector,

754
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: you can use it to take a picture of the Sun.

755
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: In neutrinos. You can make like an image of the

756
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: Sun in neutrinos. If you didn't have eyeballs and you

757
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: couldn't see photons, you could still tell that the Sun

758
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: was there just by using neutrinos, right, Yeah, I mean

759
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: it's sort of like if you couldn't see visible light,

760
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: but you could see other frequencies of light, you would

761
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: still know the Sun is there because it's producing across

762
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: all these frequencies. Absolutely, Remember it's a different kind of particle.

763
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: It's not just a different frequency photon. It's like a

764
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: completely different way to get information. It's like seeing a

765
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: car versus hearing a car. You're using a completely different

766
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: sense to now detect it. And if you google, you

767
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: can actually google like picture of the Sun in neutrinos,

768
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: and you can see this image that was made of

769
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: the Sun using neutrinos. I think it's super cool. Oh

770
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: so it's almost in a good way that we can

771
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: then turns don't interact with us. Like if neutrinos interactive

772
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: with us, they might fry us from all the nutrin

773
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: just coming out of the Sun, Like we would get

774
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 1: into trino sunburned, neutrino cancer. That's something I've never heard

775
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: of before, but you're right, it's an incredible amount of rediation.

776
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: On the other hand, maybe we could build like neutrinos

777
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: solar panels and that would solve our energy problems. Oh. Interesting,

778
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: that's a science fiction story for you right there. All right, Well, um,

779
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: so the Sun produces a lot of neutrinos, and supernovas

780
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: produce a lot of the trinos. So let's get into

781
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: what we can learn from them about what's going on

782
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: inside of these stellar explosions. But first, let's take another

783
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: quick break. All Right, we're talking about supernovas and what

784
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: can neutrinos tell us about them, because I guess um,

785
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: a lot of trinos get produced in the supernova, a

786
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: lot of neutrinos get produced in a supernova. In fact,

787
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: neutrinos carry away most the energy of a supernova. You

788
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: thought a supernova was bright and visible light, and it is.

789
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: That's nothing compared how bright it is in neutrinos. What

790
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: do you mean as bright? Like? As much more energy

791
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: is produced in the ne trinos than are made in

792
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: a supernova than act than regular light. A hundred times

793
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: of the energy produced in a supernova is carried away

794
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: in new trinos. So if you're just looking at a

795
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: supernova in the visible light, you're getting one percent of

796
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 1: its energy. WHOA, that's like a lot. That's like supernova

797
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: is mostly a a trino explosion. Yes, it's mostly a

798
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: neutrino explosion. It's like autrino explosion. Yeah, we've been following

799
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: it on Twitter, but it's been on TikTok this whole time.

800
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: And you know these supernovas, they're not small even in

801
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: the visible light. And there's some of these that are

802
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: just mind bogglingly bright in the visible light, like one

803
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: called a s A S S N fifteen l H

804
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: was a trillion times brighter than our sun momentarily. That's

805
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: like ten times as bright as our entire galaxy. And

806
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: that's in the visible light. Multiplied that by a hundred,

807
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: and that's the intensity of the energy carried away by

808
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: the neutrinos. WHOA, So I guess what's going on? Like

809
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: how you're saying, like for every little explosion that's happening

810
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: inside of supernova, it's producing a hundred times more neutrinos

811
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: than any anything else. Absolutely, the number of neutrinos produced

812
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: by supernova is something like ten to the fifty. That's

813
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: ten with fifty zeros after it, and some models go

814
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: up to predicting ten to the sixty. So it's an

815
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: incredible number. What's happening is that the nucleus of this

816
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: star is getting compressed, and so you have protons in there,

817
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: and you have some electrons that are in there, and

818
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: they get squeezed down to the electron and the proton

819
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: actually fused together and they turn into a neutron. So

820
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: that's called electron capture. But remember there's this conservation of

821
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: the number of electrons. You can't just delete an electron

822
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: from the universe. What happened is the proton and the

823
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: electron turn into a neutron, but they also pop out

824
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: a neutrino, so it's called the neutron ization of the core.

825
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: You make this thing super duper dense. You squeeze the

826
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: electrons and protons together to make neutrons. Plus you make

827
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: a neutrino every time that happens. Wait what Wait, so

828
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: you you can squeeze an electron and a proton together,

829
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: but they're like plus and minus. Wouldn't that like that's

830
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: how intense things are. They can overcome that basic repulsion. Well,

831
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: they're plus a mindus, so they're attracted to each other. Right,

832
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: That's how the electron is bound around the proton. But

833
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: typically electrons don't like to get squeezed down into the

834
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: nucleus because a quantum particle has a minimum energy. Like

835
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: you can find a quantum particle, it can't go down

836
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: to zero energy. You know have for example, if you

837
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: have a bowl and you put a marble in it

838
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: you can just sit at the bottom of the bowl

839
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 1: with no energy. It was a quantum marble. It couldn't

840
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: go to the bottom of the bowl. It would have

841
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: like a minimum energy level in which it would be

842
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: buzzing around. That's why electrons don't collapse into protons, and

843
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: normally they resist this because the Heisenberg and certainty principle says,

844
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: if you localize the electron, if you squeeze it down

845
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: to a small space, then it's gonna have a lot

846
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: of energy, has a lot of uncertainty in its momentum.

847
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: And so what's happening here is you're overcoming that with

848
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: the pressure. You're squeezing these electrons down into the proton

849
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: where they don't actually want to go, and turning it

850
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 1: into a neutron. A neutron and a neutrino, I guess

851
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: because the plus and the minus canceled out, but some

852
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: of that energy has to go somewhere. Yeah. It's really

853
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: interesting because you go from two charged particles a plus

854
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: a negative to two neutral particles. So it's like the

855
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 1: neutralization of the core. You get a neutron and a neutrino,

856
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: but a proton is really just made out of quarks,

857
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: and so it's it's actually more complicated, right, it's like

858
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: a minus one plus a two thirds minus two one

859
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: third or something like that. Yeah, what's actually happening is

860
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: that you have one of the quarks inside the neutron

861
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 1: emits the W changing into a different kind of quirk.

862
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: So that changes the proton into a neutron, and then

863
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: that W interacts with the electron and converts into a neutrino.

864
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: So that's what's putting sort of microscopically from the particle

865
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: physics point of view. All right, So then you push

866
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: together the electron on the proton and creates a neutrino,

867
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: and it creates a whole bunch of neutrinos in this

868
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: supernova explosion, and so that's really useful because, like neutrinos

869
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: are then easier to see kind of through the explosion,

870
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 1: so you could sort of get a trans X ray

871
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: picture almost of the supernova. One of the reasons that

872
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: you have so much energy released in terms of neutrinos

873
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: is that the star is mostly transparent to those neutrinos.

874
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 1: So when the neutrino is produced, it can fly out

875
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: from the star it's this crazy, incredible intense explosion that's happening.

876
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: But once you've made the neutrino is mostly able to

877
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: just escape and fly out into the universe. So every

878
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: time you get energy dumped into a neutrino boom, that's released.

879
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: On the other hand, if it turns into a photon,

880
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: that photon is created inside a really incredibly high dense

881
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: environment with all sorts of charged particles that it will

882
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: interact with, and so it gets reabsorbed very quickly. So

883
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: neutrinos fly right out of the superno of a, whereas

884
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: photons are mostly reabsorbed. If you see a photon from

885
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: the supernova, it was only emitted from the surface of

886
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: the supernova, not from the core. Interesting and in fact,

887
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: you're saying that because matrinos are can fly through the explosion,

888
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,919
Speaker 1: they sort of get here first before any actual light

889
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: from the explosion. That's really counterintuitive, but supernova neutrinos arrived

890
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: here before photons. You might think, how is that possible.

891
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: Photons travel with the speed of light. Neutrinos have a

892
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: little bit of mass, so they don't travel at the

893
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: speed of light. But the answer is that they are

894
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: released first. Supernova. Neutrinos can leave the core of the

895
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: supernova and fly immediately towards the Earth, but photons don't

896
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: get released immediately when the supernova starts. You need like

897
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: that shock wave to travel through the star and then

898
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: emit at the edge of the star. So that sort

899
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: of limited first by the speed of sound propagating that

900
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: chock wave, and then when the shock wave hits the

901
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,439
Speaker 1: surface of the star, then photons from the surface can leave,

902
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: and they'll spend their whole time trying to catch up

903
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: to those neutrinos us and not quite making it. It's

904
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: almost like the supernova in a way traps the visible

905
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: light so it can leave. We can't see the explosion

906
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: until afterwards, but the trinos can just fly out and

907
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: tells like, hey, supernova happened. Yeah, And it's the similar

908
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: things what happens inside our sun. You sometimes hear people

909
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: say that it takes a photon thousands of years to

910
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: travel from the center of the Sun to the surface.

911
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: It's a bit misleading because you know, what's actually happening

912
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: is a photon created at the center is just reabsorbed

913
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: and then the whole sun heats up and later it

914
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: emits a photon at the surface, but the principle is

915
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: the same that a photon created the heart of our

916
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: Sun also can't just leave the Sun and shine out

917
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: to Earth. Only photons from the surface can make it

918
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: from the Sun and hit the Earth. So you can

919
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: actually use new trinos as like an early warning system

920
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: for supernovas. But it wouldn't that depend on how far

921
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: away the supernova is, Like, if it's far enough away,

922
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: the photons will catch up eventually. Yes, if it is

923
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: far enough away, the photons will catch up because they're

924
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: going fat saster than the neutrinos. Yeah, but neutrinos are

925
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: really really light. Their mass is very very small, and

926
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: so they travel an incredibly high fraction of the speed

927
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: of light, you know, like point and so you're right,

928
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: photons are traveling faster, and so eventually they will overtake it.

929
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: But they'd have to come from extremely distant supernova for

930
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: that to happen, and all the supernovas we see are

931
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: pretty distant. You know, we haven't seen one in our

932
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: galaxy since sixteen hundreds, Like the last person to see

933
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: a supernova in the Milky Way was Kepler, whoa in

934
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: sixteen o four, like it's been a while, and that's

935
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: sort of a puzzle, like not we don't really understand it.

936
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: We're supposed to get like one to three per century,

937
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 1: and it's been like four hundred years and we've gotten zero.

938
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 1: So that's something nobody understands about supernova Like, if something

939
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: one happens in our Milky Way, it would be more

940
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: than just like a light shining getting brighter. It would

941
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: maybe be super bright light light up the nights. Guy,

942
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: it would And we saw a supernova in seven, not

943
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: from our actual gaxe or from like a nearby blob

944
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: from the Magellanic cloud. And this is in seven. They

945
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: saw this supernova it's called Supernovae A, and they actually

946
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: saw neutrinos from it before they saw the light from it. WHOA,

947
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: meaning like we had some lutrino detectors ready to go,

948
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: and we saw a spike before we saw the actual

949
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: flash exactly. We have particle physicists studying neutrinos just because

950
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: we want to understand like how often does an electron

951
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: neutrino turn into a muan neutrino or this kind of

952
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: like basic particle physics questions. So we have these neutrino telescopes,

953
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: like the when we talked about earlier that took a

954
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: picture of the Sun in neutrinos. So these things are

955
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: always running, they're always sensitive. In the late seventies, a

956
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: couple of theorists had this prediction. They said, you know what,

957
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: we did this calculation. We predict that when a supernova happens,

958
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 1: there will be an incredible flux of neutrinos. Nobody had

959
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,959
Speaker 1: ever thought that before. And then ten years later, after

960
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: these neutrino telescopes were built, they saw one. They saw

961
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: this flux, this momentary flash of neutrino knows that nobody

962
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: was expecting. And a few hours later they saw a

963
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: bright light from the same direction, and so that was

964
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: the supernova. In two different kinds of signals, we got

965
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: the preview, like the Trader kind of for the for

966
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: the main event exactly, or I guess not, because in

967
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: the Trina explosion is the main event of the event, Yeah, exactly.

968
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: The supernova itself is like the post credit scene. Yeah,

969
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: it's just it's just the the event, just sitting around

970
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: eating schwarma. But we only saw like twenty five neutrinos,

971
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: and that's a lot that's a lot of neutrinos. In

972
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: order to detect twenty five neutrinos, you need to have

973
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: billions and trillions of neutrinos passing through your detector, because

974
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: remember it's very rare that they interact, so most of

975
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: the neutrinos will pass right through you. So they saw

976
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: like twenty five neutrinos over a span of like thirteen seconds,

977
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: which is like nobody ever sees a new Trina detector

978
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: lighting up like that. They were going crazy. But this

979
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 1: is the only time it's ever happened. This is the

980
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: only supernova we've ever seen neutra arinos from. But I mean,

981
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: we have these neutrino telescopes running all the time, and

982
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: aren't there supernovs happening all the time. Shouldn't we see

983
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: these neutrino events then as all the time as well?

984
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: Yeah we should, But a lot of these supernovas are

985
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: very distant. Was sort of unusually close. It was in

986
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: this blob that orbits the Milky Way to Magel in

987
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: a cloud. Most of the supernovas we see are in

988
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: much more distant galaxies, And so the number of neutrinos

989
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: we get and the number we can detect is very,

990
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: very small, but we do expect that all these neutrinos

991
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: from all these distant supernovas sort of add up to

992
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: be like an overall supernova neutrino background, which we hope

993
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: the next generation of telescopes will be able to see.

994
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: So even if you can't like individually identify neutrinos from

995
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: one supernova, you might be able to tell that there

996
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 1: are a lot of supernovas out there producing a lot

997
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: of neutrinos that you can pick up. Interesting. Well, I

998
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: guess maybe to answer the question of the episode, then,

999
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: what can neutrinos tell us about supernova? What do you

1000
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: think they'll tell us if we can maybe see these

1001
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: a little bit better or a better resolution, and they

1002
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: can tell us a lot about what's going on inside

1003
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: the supernova. Because neutrinos have three different flavors electrons, muans,

1004
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: and towels, And while most of the neutrinos produced in

1005
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: the heart are electron neutrinos, as they fly through the star,

1006
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 1: they change from electron to muan to taw, this process

1007
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: called neutrino oscillation. We have a whole podcast episode about that,

1008
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 1: and that happens based on the density of the material

1009
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: and the kind of the material. So by looking at

1010
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: like the ratios of electrons and muans and town neutrinos,

1011
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: you can tell something about the density of the material.

1012
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: It's sort of like X raying the supernova. You can

1013
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: see what happened on the inside, not just on the surface.

1014
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: I see because maybe in this signal, this explosion of neutrinos,

1015
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: you can tell, oh, first there was this kind and

1016
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: then it changed into this other kind of neutrino, and

1017
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: then that would tell you kind of how the explosion

1018
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: um evolved. Can tell you something about the density and

1019
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: the layers of what's going on inside the supernova. And

1020
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: so there's sort of like the messenger of the core

1021
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: of the supernova mechanism. You're saying, like, right now we

1022
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: have we can have a neutrino telescope look at our

1023
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: son and get a picture of our son. But right

1024
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: now we don't have the technology too and get a

1025
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: picture of a supernova in neutrinos, not most of them,

1026
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: because neutrinos are so poorly interacting. Even supernovas that are

1027
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: super duper bright, we can't resolve most of them. It's

1028
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: just like how there are lots of black holes out

1029
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: there and meeting lots of gravitational waves. But it's not

1030
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: always easy to pick out one gravitational wave from one

1031
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: black hole because there's so many and they're so distant,

1032
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: so they all add up to sort of like a buzz.

1033
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: You want to pick out one specific supernova, it's got

1034
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: to be kind of bright and kind of nearby. But

1035
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: we're building the next generation of new trino detectors which

1036
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: should be even more sensitive to neutrinos, so we should

1037
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: be able to see supernovas and other galaxies in neutrinos,

1038
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: and they'll give us the information we need to start

1039
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 1: like answering some of these questions about what's going on

1040
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: when this core collapses. You're saying, like, right now we

1041
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: have more like a micro like a neutrino microphone was

1042
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: in a way, but maybe in the future will have

1043
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 1: more like a telescope natrino telescope, like a focused scope

1044
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: for it exactly. And the Daniel Science Foundation very excited

1045
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 1: to find that when junk mail and we could have

1046
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: a supernova early warning system. Right if we could detect

1047
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: these things happening before they shine in the visible light,

1048
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: then we can point our telescopes to them hours before

1049
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: they become luminous, and we can really see what happens

1050
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: just before the shock wave reaches the surface, which would

1051
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: be super fascinating interesting, be like having a third eyeball

1052
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: looking out for the next supernova. Yeah, you can also

1053
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: turn it the other way around. Not only can new

1054
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 1: trinos tell something about supernovas, but this one supernova also

1055
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: told us something about new trinos. Oh yeah, you mean,

1056
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: like there's still a lot we don't know about neutrinos, right, Yeah,

1057
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: And in the nineteen eighties we have no idea what

1058
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: the massive neutrinos was, like, how small was it? Exactly?

1059
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: The very difficult experiments to do. So when we got

1060
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: this pulse of neutrinos from that supernova, actually used it

1061
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: to figure out roughly how much mass does the neutrino

1062
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: have based on the difference in arrival times of neutrinos,

1063
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: Like two neutrinos are produced in the supernova at the

1064
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: same time but with different energies, which means slightly different velocities,

1065
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: and we can measure the arrival time on Earth and

1066
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: the energy on Earth, and then you do a bunch

1067
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: of math and you can figure out exactly what the

1068
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: mass of that neutrino had to be if it had

1069
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: this energy and this velocity. So we're able to figure

1070
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: out roughly what the mass of the neutrino was because

1071
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 1: we got a nice big blob of them from this supernova.

1072
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: And what you've learned is that it's a really small

1073
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: or really light. It's really really small mass exactly. The

1074
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: electron neutrino is some mass less than like twenty five

1075
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: e v, and in comparison, the electron has a mass

1076
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: of five hundred thousand ev. So the neutrino is much much, much,

1077
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: much much lower mass than even the electron, which is

1078
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: very low mass compared to lots of other particles. It's

1079
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: interesting that you know, so much a the energy of

1080
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: a supernova is trying into neutrinos. But then neutrinos are

1081
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: you know, ghostly and super light, so they're almost like

1082
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: impossible to see. Yeah, Like photons, they carry their energy

1083
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: mostly in their motion, not in their mass. Right, Photons

1084
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: are pure motion, they're just kinetic energy to have momentum

1085
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: but no mass. Neutrinos also have momentum and they have

1086
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: a very very small amount of mass, all right, So

1087
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: stay tuned for these new neutrino telescopes funded by the

1088
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 1: Daniel Junk Mail Foundation, which my one day gave everyone

1089
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: a next eyeball, at least internal eyeball for us to

1090
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: see the universe in other types of energies. That's right,

1091
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: and if you would like to support the mission of

1092
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: the Daniel Science Foundation, please send us a check or

1093
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: at least send us some junk mail. Daniel will recycle

1094
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: it and use that to make more junk mail. I

1095
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: guess it's just a junk mail making operations. You caught me.

1096
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: It's just a big spam. It's a hobby, Daniel. Let's

1097
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: let's face it. One day I want to build a

1098
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: junk male detector. That would be my next kind of eyeball.

1099
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: I'll focus on the Anverse to find the greatest sources

1100
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: of junk male in the universe. I see, yeah, well,

1101
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: I think every house is a junk male detector, or

1102
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,479
Speaker 1: at least a junk male collector. But maybe you could

1103
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: do like a citizen science project where you coordinate, you know,

1104
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 1: different households, and then you could pinpoint the source of

1105
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: these junk males junk male telescope network. I might tell

1106
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: you a lot about the postal universe. Yeah, all right,

1107
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: we'll stay tuned. And again just another reminder that there's

1108
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 1: a lot going on in this universe that is maybe

1109
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: not apparent to the naked eye. You know, there's a

1110
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: lot of interesting science and physics and incredible energy is

1111
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: being released out there that are regular human eyes can't see.

1112
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: So we're sort of in our everyday lives kind of

1113
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: ignorant about all of this amazing and miraculous processes going

1114
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 1: on in in nature. Yeah, and those are the things

1115
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: that we know we don't know about. There might even

1116
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: be more things, the unknown unknowns, that we don't even

1117
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: know that we can see. And it could be going

1118
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: on right under our very eyeballs. You could be getting

1119
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: a lot of junk bill and not even know it.

1120
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: That sounds like a good situation actually, but it's there, Daniel,

1121
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: it's clearing up your background and so I have questions.

1122
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: That's right, there's a huge pile in your backyard. You

1123
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: just haven't cleaned that part of it. All right. Well,

1124
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, see

1125
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

1126
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: and Jorge explained the Universe is a production of I

1127
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio, visit

1128
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1129
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Yeah.