WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra - Patrick McGinnis

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business

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<v Speaker 1>Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast bringing you an in

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<v Speaker 1>depth interview you will not hear anywhere else. Well, this

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<v Speaker 1>week we caught up with a venture capitalist. His name

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<v Speaker 1>is Patrick McGinnis, but you don't know him as a

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<v Speaker 1>venture capitalist, and you probably haven't heard his name, but

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<v Speaker 1>I guarantee you you've heard of something he came up with,

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<v Speaker 1>FOMO Fear of missing Out, absolutely FOMO and also FOMO

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<v Speaker 1>now Fear of Better Options. He's also got a new

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<v Speaker 1>book out, Jason. It's called Fear of Missing Out, Practical

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<v Speaker 1>decision Making in a world of overwhelming choice. And what's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting is he really applies it to our COVID nineteen world,

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<v Speaker 1>something to think about as we are all sheltering in place.

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<v Speaker 1>So basically, this book is a reflection of where we

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<v Speaker 1>are today as a society, how we spend our time.

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<v Speaker 1>And I met in FOMO when I was back in

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<v Speaker 1>business school at Harvard Business School in the year two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and three, before there was any social media. But

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<v Speaker 1>now we're in a place where all of us are

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<v Speaker 1>living with fomo. We were inundating with information and social

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<v Speaker 1>media and all these influences, and so we have to

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<v Speaker 1>find a way to deal with it. Alright, So can

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<v Speaker 1>we go back to that first thing. I can't skip

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<v Speaker 1>past that because I mentioned this to my two teenagers

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<v Speaker 1>that I was going to interview you today and that

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<v Speaker 1>you're the inventor of fomo, and they're like, we want

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<v Speaker 1>to hear more about this. So on behalf of Will

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<v Speaker 1>and Henry. I am asking this question, how did you

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<v Speaker 1>how did you come up with this? What was the

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<v Speaker 1>what was the germ of the idea here? Yeah, so listen.

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<v Speaker 1>I I grew up a small town in Maine and

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<v Speaker 1>it's a very calm place, not like going on. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I lived in New York, but I was working

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<v Speaker 1>all the time, so I didn't have time pomo. And

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<v Speaker 1>then right before I went to business school, there were

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<v Speaker 1>two things that happened in here in New York City

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<v Speaker 1>that really affected me. Number one was I was working

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<v Speaker 1>in venture capital in two thousand and so everything blew

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<v Speaker 1>up and we basically lost all our money and it

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<v Speaker 1>was very traumatic. But far worse than that was I

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<v Speaker 1>lived through nine eleven. I lived in more in Manhattan,

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<v Speaker 1>and we all remember what that was like. And so

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<v Speaker 1>as a result, I just wanted to live life to

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<v Speaker 1>the fullest. Was carpet a d M for me. And

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<v Speaker 1>when I got to HBS, you know, it's such a

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<v Speaker 1>choice rich environment in terms of the amounts of classes

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<v Speaker 1>and job opportunities and parties and trips and and all

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<v Speaker 1>of these things were happening, and I just wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>do all of them. And even though I didn't there

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<v Speaker 1>was no social media. In fact, Marcu Zuckerberg was across

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<v Speaker 1>the river working on the first version of Facebook at

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<v Speaker 1>the exact same time that I was over in business school.

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<v Speaker 1>Even though we didn't have social media, we all lived

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<v Speaker 1>in such close product proximity to each other and we

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<v Speaker 1>could compare ourselves to each other that I basically felt

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<v Speaker 1>this anxiety that I was never doing enough and I

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't keep up. And I started calling that if you

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<v Speaker 1>were missing out. I shortened it to fomo, and I

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<v Speaker 1>wrote an article in our school newspaper called social Theory

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<v Speaker 1>at HBS Beginnesses, two foes, and I talked all about

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<v Speaker 1>fomo and its culture in our campus wow, and it

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<v Speaker 1>went viral. Well, you know, it's funny. I have to

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<v Speaker 1>thank you guys, because it went viral on campus, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I graduated and forgot about it. But Bloomberg Business

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<v Speaker 1>Week magazine wrote about it in two thousand and seven

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<v Speaker 1>in the context of HBS. That's the first time I

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<v Speaker 1>saw it outside of when I wrote about it. And

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<v Speaker 1>then slowly it's sort of crept into the vocabulary because

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<v Speaker 1>you know, every year kids were graduating from business schools

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<v Speaker 1>and bringing it to all of the firms that they

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<v Speaker 1>went to work for. Yeah, all right, well, good, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we're happy to be a footnote in the creation and Patrick,

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<v Speaker 1>you're welcome. But it's but it's such a big thing, right.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about this like just trying to have balance

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<v Speaker 1>and just being present, enjoying where you are rather than

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about what you're missing. And so how do you

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<v Speaker 1>get to this in a world where like everybody's having

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<v Speaker 1>a hard time about what they're missing right now, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>or what they're going to be missing on the other

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<v Speaker 1>side of this, because we can't go back to life

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<v Speaker 1>as we knew it. It's so true. And listen, it's

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<v Speaker 1>been interesting because in the beginning of the pandemic, we

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<v Speaker 1>all felt, I think a sense of relief that we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have that social pressure. And you know, it goes

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<v Speaker 1>beyond social pressure. Also is about how we spend our

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<v Speaker 1>money and how we invest our money. It has all

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<v Speaker 1>these other implications. But for that one moment, I remember thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, I haven't had fomo in two weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>And then over time, as we started to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>realize this is going to drag on, I think we

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<v Speaker 1>all started to feel it. And the big thing to

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<v Speaker 1>remember with fomo is that fomo is caused by two things.

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<v Speaker 1>Number One, it's the perception that something better is out

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<v Speaker 1>there happening than what you're doing at the moment. So

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<v Speaker 1>perception can be deception. You have to really dig into

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<v Speaker 1>whether something is as good as it looks on the surface.

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<v Speaker 1>And the second is it's about her behavior following the crowd.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you feel fomo, asked yourself, is this something

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<v Speaker 1>I truly want to do because it's something I want

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<v Speaker 1>to do? Or am I feeling pressure to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>keep up with the jones as an external pressure on me?

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<v Speaker 1>Can I just say, what's really interesting is and and

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<v Speaker 1>maybe this is all of a sudden like everybody doing zooms,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know there's tons of now fitness Zoom classes

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<v Speaker 1>when initially there wasn't a lot of things to choose from. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>everybody was ramping up, and I kind of loved it

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<v Speaker 1>because the world became so simple and there weren't a

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<v Speaker 1>ton of things I had to make decisions. And now

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<v Speaker 1>it's like do I want to do this Zoom business

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<v Speaker 1>class or this one? Do I want to do this

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<v Speaker 1>Zoom family meeting or this one? Like it's it's unbelievable,

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<v Speaker 1>how you know, again, fomo hits even in this world.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the thing that kind of blown my mind about

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<v Speaker 1>this is what has happened. Is we so we you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we all stay home. But the thing that provokes much

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<v Speaker 1>of our fomo, which is you know, connectivity and our

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<v Speaker 1>cell phones and social media. We're actually on it more

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<v Speaker 1>now than we were before. My screen time and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>careful about this. Look at your screen time, everybody, Like

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<v Speaker 1>it's frightening how much spending on our devices, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>so we're just we're getting into actually kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>worse place than we were before. I would say, let's

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<v Speaker 1>continue our conversation with Patrick McGinnis. He's got a new

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<v Speaker 1>book out. It's called Fear of Missing out practical decision

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<v Speaker 1>making in a world of overwhelming choice. Johnnys on the

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<v Speaker 1>phone on launch day. As Carol mentioned, he's got a

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<v Speaker 1>big event tonight virtual of course, because that's the world

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<v Speaker 1>we're living in. And Patrick, first of all, thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>sticking with us. And I have to ask you. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we were starting in the first part of our conversation

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<v Speaker 1>to get into this notion of sort of how the

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<v Speaker 1>world has changed and how FOMO still is creeping into

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<v Speaker 1>what we're doing. What is the effect of sort of

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<v Speaker 1>how we think about missing out or you also talk

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<v Speaker 1>about FOBO fear of a better option. How do we

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<v Speaker 1>think about that differently? Do you think on the other

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<v Speaker 1>side of this as we get to what some people

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<v Speaker 1>are calling sort of the next normal. Yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>really important question because I think we have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>to learn in this moment, and if we pay attention

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<v Speaker 1>and put down our phones for a minute and think

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<v Speaker 1>about what's going on, we can come out of this

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<v Speaker 1>actually better people, better society. And so I would think

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<v Speaker 1>on the FOMO side, it's really about paying attention right

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<v Speaker 1>now to what you truly miss and what you realize

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<v Speaker 1>you don't really miss. Writing that down actually and then

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<v Speaker 1>when you re emerge into the real world, remembering these

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<v Speaker 1>things like it's incredible the little things I miss. I

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<v Speaker 1>live in New York City. I missed the subway, I

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<v Speaker 1>miss going to a lot of the rest ran into

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<v Speaker 1>the neighborhood. What I don't miss is over scheduling myself

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<v Speaker 1>or being stressed out about some of the things that

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<v Speaker 1>don't really matter. So I think thinking about that right

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<v Speaker 1>now and being introspective about that helpful phobo, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a fear of a better option. This is the other

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<v Speaker 1>thing that I wrote about back in business school, but

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<v Speaker 1>it never got famous. But it's just as bad, I

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<v Speaker 1>would say, worse than fomo because phobo is about never

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<v Speaker 1>sort of accepting a deal, always wanting to trade up,

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<v Speaker 1>always wanting to wait for something better to come along.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that we've seen in this pandemic that

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<v Speaker 1>the people who were waiting for something better to come

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<v Speaker 1>along when it came to making the hard decisions about

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<v Speaker 1>closing down and social distancing, uh, they found out very

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<v Speaker 1>quickly that delaying decision making actually has terrible effects. I

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<v Speaker 1>totally agree with that. I think that's such an interesting insight.

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<v Speaker 1>Right the amount of time like you stew over making

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<v Speaker 1>a decision. Sometimes you just gotta just do it and

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<v Speaker 1>move on totally. I mean this, this is a great

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<v Speaker 1>example in public policy with whether it's COVID or it's

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<v Speaker 1>or it's Brexit. But it's also if you think about

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<v Speaker 1>you know, entrepreneurs versus incoming companies, these traditional companies that

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<v Speaker 1>they have all this money and resources, but they can't

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<v Speaker 1>move quickly. And the reason why you know, the auties

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<v Speaker 1>get eaten up by the teslas is because the startups

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<v Speaker 1>have to move. They don't have the resources just to

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<v Speaker 1>sit around and weave for something better. Yeah. Well, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's it also feels like many folks are gaining a

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<v Speaker 1>sense of clarity to your earlier point about fomo, about

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<v Speaker 1>sort of what they need and what they don't need.

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<v Speaker 1>But also when a lot is stripped away, maybe you

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<v Speaker 1>stop thinking, well, I'm going to do this thing next,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm really just doing this until I get a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to do X. And there's also this sense it

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<v Speaker 1>feels like right now Patrick that you know, we're all

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<v Speaker 1>much more aware of our mortality in in some ways,

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<v Speaker 1>and and maybe saying either Okay, I'm gonna make that

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<v Speaker 1>decision to do something different, or maybe I need to

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<v Speaker 1>sort of reassess and and really be honest about how

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<v Speaker 1>I'm feeling about this situation right now and not always

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<v Speaker 1>be a grass is greener sort of person. Now, for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>the reality is that we are having this opportunity, but

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<v Speaker 1>just with as what we lived within nine eleven, there

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<v Speaker 1>was this period of introspection and then we sort of

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<v Speaker 1>resume these sorts of yeas that we wish we hadn't done.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I actually suspect that there will be a

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<v Speaker 1>wave of a massive fomo when we are able to

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<v Speaker 1>live our lives again. And I think it's okay for

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<v Speaker 1>a little while, because when you have fomo means there

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<v Speaker 1>something to miss out on, because that's a good thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But we we definitely want to be conscious of what

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<v Speaker 1>we've learned right now because you know, if we learn

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<v Speaker 1>something and pay attention, we can just live much more

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<v Speaker 1>decisive lives. How do you apply fomo in the workplace? Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a very anybody been on LinkedIn lately and seeing

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<v Speaker 1>all of your friends with their promotions and you start

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<v Speaker 1>to feel like you're just not good enough. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>that is that is an incredibly sort of active use case.

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<v Speaker 1>But really I think about fomo in terms of not

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<v Speaker 1>only in terms of not being sort of grateful or

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<v Speaker 1>thankful for what you do have and then more fixating

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<v Speaker 1>on what you don't have, but all so in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of running businesses, when businesses start to do things because

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<v Speaker 1>of fomo, when Pepsi brings Crystal Pepsi on the market

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<v Speaker 1>because they want to keep up with sprite, when you're

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<v Speaker 1>doing things for the wrong reasons because you're following in

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<v Speaker 1>the crowd, you are apt to make mistakes. And so

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<v Speaker 1>how do you think We've been asking sort of big

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<v Speaker 1>thinkers that this question, like, what are the underappreciated ways

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<v Speaker 1>that you think we change as either humans or business

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<v Speaker 1>people investors On the other side of this, so, I

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<v Speaker 1>have a feeling, um that it's unfortunate that this whole

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<v Speaker 1>sort of situation has become quite political. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that we're going to see through the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>year that the political divide that is created by this

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<v Speaker 1>is going to play out in our election, and then

0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.960
<v Speaker 1>we're going to see effects on the election and potentially

0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.480
<v Speaker 1>with voting and voting rights and things like that. And

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<v Speaker 1>so I think the big question that I asked myself

0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.760
<v Speaker 1>as I look at this pandemic. Is what is the

0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.240
<v Speaker 1>role that it will have in effect our democracy? And

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<v Speaker 1>how can we as citizens come together to actually defend

0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.200
<v Speaker 1>something that's so precious to us. And I think that's

0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.880
<v Speaker 1>going to be the conversation this year. Right now, we're

0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.240
<v Speaker 1>all dealing with the medical emergency. Next we'll be dealing

0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.880
<v Speaker 1>with the economic impact, and we're gonna be dealing with

0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.839
<v Speaker 1>the impact to our democratic systems. And that was venture

0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.800
<v Speaker 1>capitalist and author Patrick McGinnis, inventor of the term fomo.

0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I have to say I was skeptical going in as

0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.400
<v Speaker 1>where my son's but then when he made the case, like, okay,

0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.440
<v Speaker 1>that checks out. I mean, fascinating to understand where it

0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.880
<v Speaker 1>came from and also how it applies to the life

0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.760
<v Speaker 1>that we're living right now. And can we just say,

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<v Speaker 1>you gotta love that he gave props to Bloomberg business Week.

0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Be Yes, they wrote about him years ago when he

0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.160
<v Speaker 1>created the term fomo. He wrote about it, he wrote

0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.320
<v Speaker 1>an article while he was at Harvard Business School, and

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.559
<v Speaker 1>apparently Business Week picked it up and that really gave

0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 1>him a lot of attention. So good A love that, Yeah,

0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.320
<v Speaker 1>good for him. It all comes together, all right, you've

0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.960
<v Speaker 1>been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra, be sure to

0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.640
<v Speaker 1>tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio Live Money through Friday,

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.560
<v Speaker 1>starting at two pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio.

0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm Jason Kelly and I'm Carol Masser, And this is

0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg h