WEBVTT - Episode 1: When Sales Is A Calling

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Season five of On the Job, a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>about finding your life's work. On the job is brought

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<v Speaker 1>to you by Express Employment Professionals, a leading staffing provider

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<v Speaker 1>that employs nearly six hundred thousand people annually across more

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<v Speaker 1>than eight hundred thirty franchise locations in the US, Canada,

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<v Speaker 1>South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. Our vision is to

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<v Speaker 1>help as many people as possible find good jobs by

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<v Speaker 1>helping as many clients as possible find good people. Whether

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking for your first job or you're seeking a

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<v Speaker 1>new challenge in your career, Express Employment Professionals will be

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<v Speaker 1>with you every step of the way. We understand what

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<v Speaker 1>it takes to land a new position at a top

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<v Speaker 1>employer in today's job market. Plus, we never charge a

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<v Speaker 1>fee to find you a job. And just like finding

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<v Speaker 1>a job, finding the best people to fill open positions

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<v Speaker 1>in your company requires more than sorting through applications. It

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<v Speaker 1>takes real people, real interviews, discovering the skills you need.

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<v Speaker 1>At Express, we find people for jobs and companies of

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<v Speaker 1>all sizes and industries, from the production floor to the

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<v Speaker 1>front office to the C suite. Express knows jobs get

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<v Speaker 1>to know Express. This is on the Job, a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>about finding your life's work. On the job, is brought

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<v Speaker 1>to you by Express Employment Professionals. This season, we're bringing

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<v Speaker 1>you stories of folks following their passion to carve their

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<v Speaker 1>own career path. To start off this season, I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to focus on a kind of overlooked occupation, a job

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<v Speaker 1>that if you're good at it, people might not know

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<v Speaker 1>that you're doing it. All right, I'm according working in sales.

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<v Speaker 1>So for this episode, I talked to a guy named

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<v Speaker 1>Chris in Baltimore. Chris Lundy forty two years old. Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>He is a clinical oncology specialist, which basically is a

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<v Speaker 1>fancy term for I sell your drugs. Chris has worn

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of hats besides being a pharmaceutical rep in

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<v Speaker 1>his career, but he says that no matter what it was,

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<v Speaker 1>he was born to sell, and so were you. We've

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<v Speaker 1>all been We've all been selling. We just didn't know it.

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<v Speaker 1>If you've ever dated, you've sold, you know, maybe not successfully,

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<v Speaker 1>but actually maybe not successfully. But think about that, right,

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<v Speaker 1>You gotta you gotta a lot of times you gotta

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<v Speaker 1>go to someone who's a perfect stranger and you have

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<v Speaker 1>to bring that person along a continuum that makes this

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<v Speaker 1>perfect stranger. Kiss you. It's all about relationships. It's all

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<v Speaker 1>about relationships, man, Thank you. That's the that's the point

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<v Speaker 1>the dating game aside. He's right, we do all sell

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<v Speaker 1>each other on ideas constantly. We convinced people to think

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<v Speaker 1>about us differently by how we dress, by what our

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<v Speaker 1>social media looks like. And Chris's approach to sales is

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<v Speaker 1>that people really can tell when someone's not being real.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that everybody has a like authenticity radar. I

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<v Speaker 1>really do. And I think that if people sensed it, like,

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<v Speaker 1>wait a second, this guy is not some some's fishy

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<v Speaker 1>about them, I think they start to close up. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>He says that's what sets him apart. There are a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of salespeople who will treat their clients like a

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<v Speaker 1>walking dollar sign and say anything to sell their product.

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<v Speaker 1>At least I see me. I just I can't do

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<v Speaker 1>any of that stuff. You gotta be authentic, because again,

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<v Speaker 1>you're trying to convince someone to think differently. You're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to convince someone to behave differently. It's not Hey, here's

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<v Speaker 1>a pen that I want you to buy. Give me money.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give you this pen. I'm trying to change your behavior.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to get it to the point where every

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<v Speaker 1>time a patient comes in with disease X, you think

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<v Speaker 1>about me and you think about my product. That's a behavior. Man.

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<v Speaker 1>The Chris you're hearing now, that's the Chris whose job

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<v Speaker 1>it is to be likable, to constantly be talking to people,

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<v Speaker 1>and generally be pretty extroverted. But growing up just outside

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<v Speaker 1>of DC as a kid, he was a lot different.

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<v Speaker 1>So I kind of was like a little loner, geek

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<v Speaker 1>kind of kid. I love comic books, you know. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember my mother used to talk about that. How I

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<v Speaker 1>could be in my room and if it weren't for

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<v Speaker 1>having to eat food, I could be in my room

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<v Speaker 1>for like eight nine hours. Just I didn't pay I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't pay a lot of attention to the real world.

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<v Speaker 1>My mind was always always daydreaming, always all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>That was his life for a while, in his own world.

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<v Speaker 1>His favorite comic book here was Adam Warlock. He kept

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<v Speaker 1>to himself right up until about the tenth grade. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember writing an essay. I don't even remember what it

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<v Speaker 1>was about. The teacher was mister Howard. It looked like

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<v Speaker 1>he wasn't even sure that I actually wrote it, Like

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<v Speaker 1>he may have suspected plagiarism or something like that, and

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<v Speaker 1>so and like he took you like he made you

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<v Speaker 1>stay after class. Yes, yeah, because he thought you didn't

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<v Speaker 1>write it. Well, it's not that he was being accusatory.

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<v Speaker 1>It was more like disbelief, you know, like where I'm from, man,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I'm kind of from like the hood man, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>so you don't get a whole bunch of like writing talent.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that it just really stood out for him.

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<v Speaker 1>And he pauses and looks at me. He goes, you're

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<v Speaker 1>a really good writer. Do you know that? The proof

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<v Speaker 1>was there? He had won essay and speech contest before,

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<v Speaker 1>but he didn't figure it was because he was good.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought other people sucked, you know. So it took

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<v Speaker 1>a while to realize, like, wait a second, Wait a second,

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe it's not that everybody else runs slow. Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>I am actually fast. I don't know, just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>took off. I just started talking more, sharing the thoughts

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<v Speaker 1>I had instead of suppressing them, and people, people you know,

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<v Speaker 1>liked it. It worked. This late blooming moment really set

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<v Speaker 1>him on the trajectory to where he is now. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. It just changed overnight, it seemed, and all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, I was like mister social extrovert, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a type personality, Homecoming King, captain of the football team.

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<v Speaker 1>It was, yeah, it was. It was not gradual. After

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<v Speaker 1>high school, he went up to college and got an

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<v Speaker 1>English degree, where he was also acting in plays and

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<v Speaker 1>had his own radio show on campus. I started to

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<v Speaker 1>really hone my skills in terms of communicating and sharing ideas.

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<v Speaker 1>The first big job he got out of school before Pharma,

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<v Speaker 1>was working with the Philadelphia Eagles in the PR department

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<v Speaker 1>media relations. So everything from setting up interviews. Let's say

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<v Speaker 1>ESPN wanted to talk to our quarterback or something, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I would facilitate that. He was basically the liaison between

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<v Speaker 1>players and the public. So his skill set would kick

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<v Speaker 1>in during moments where say he and some players might

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<v Speaker 1>stop at a Wendy's while on the road and inevitably

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<v Speaker 1>get crowded by fans asking for autographs. My job. One

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<v Speaker 1>of the things I had to do. I had to

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<v Speaker 1>be the no guy, because you can't have a superstar player,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, shutting people down, telling them no, they look bad.

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<v Speaker 1>So I had to be the bad guy. Having lived

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<v Speaker 1>in Philly myself for a couple of years, I can

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<v Speaker 1>say that they're not fans that like being told no exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess, like, what is the biggest thing you

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<v Speaker 1>learned from that job? When like nobody wants to hear this,

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<v Speaker 1>that or that, Like you gotta win at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, what's your record. I've got an NFC

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<v Speaker 1>Championship ring. When I pull it out, people think it's

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<v Speaker 1>a super Bowl ring because it's big and it's full

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<v Speaker 1>of diamonds and stuff. It's not a super Bowl ring,

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<v Speaker 1>like we weren't that proud of that ring. It's an

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<v Speaker 1>NFC Championship ring, which means there was a ring that

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<v Speaker 1>was bigger than that, and that's the ring we want it.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll get back to the story in a second. First,

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<v Speaker 1>a word from Express Employment Professionals. A strong work ethic

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<v Speaker 1>takes prime and a job well done. This is you.

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<v Speaker 1>But to get an honest day's work, you need a callback.

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<v Speaker 1>You need a job. Express Employment Professionals can help. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>connect you to the right company. We're committed to your

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<v Speaker 1>success and never charge a fee to find you a job.

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<v Speaker 1>Express Nose Jobs, get to no Express find your location

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<v Speaker 1>at expresspros dot com or on the Express Job's app.

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<v Speaker 1>Now back to on the job. After the NFL, he

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to make the leap to pharmaceutical sales. So we

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<v Speaker 1>went for a job at MERK, a huge company, and

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<v Speaker 1>they basically said, you were in media relations. You don't

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<v Speaker 1>have any experience in sales. And I tried. I had

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<v Speaker 1>to explain to them, listen, every day I have to

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<v Speaker 1>convince young millionaires, egotistical millionaires, to do things that they

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to do, you know. And if you don't

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<v Speaker 1>think that sales, then and I don't know what to

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<v Speaker 1>tell you, you know. And so that that line actually

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<v Speaker 1>got me in the door. So he could obviously talk

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<v Speaker 1>to talk. But the job isn't selling a product to

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<v Speaker 1>the general public. It's selling life saving drugs to medical professionals.

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<v Speaker 1>And they don't know you, so the trust isn't there.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you're trying to convince a doctor to practice

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<v Speaker 1>a certain way, and this guy knows that he's got

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<v Speaker 1>more education than you, he's got more expertise than you,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's supposed to listen to what you're telling him

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<v Speaker 1>to do. Like that's insane. The marketing department would train

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<v Speaker 1>reps to go in with fancy graphs and selling points.

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<v Speaker 1>But Chris did the exact opposite, meeting with doctors for

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<v Speaker 1>multiple appointments without mentioning his product at all. And so

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<v Speaker 1>I started by asking questions like, what's important to you?

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<v Speaker 1>What do you not care about? Tell me about your patients,

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<v Speaker 1>what are your needs? What keeps you up in night?

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<v Speaker 1>Those kinds of things I'm saying, tell me about you.

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<v Speaker 1>And then once the relationship be set, and once that

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<v Speaker 1>rapport is there, now we can talk about what I

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<v Speaker 1>have to offer and what I can do and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>provide for you and your patients. In an old fashioned

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<v Speaker 1>industry full of reps just trying to sell, sell, sell,

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<v Speaker 1>Chris's authenticity started to really shine through. Yeah. Once I

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<v Speaker 1>saw like my numbers start to reflect what I was

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<v Speaker 1>actually doing, I was like, how about that? I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to get mister Howard on the line and tell him. Look, man,

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<v Speaker 1>he cut to see selling around New York City, where

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<v Speaker 1>the competition was fierce, and there was one experience early

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<v Speaker 1>on in his career that really stuck with him. So

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<v Speaker 1>there was this doctor, he was huge, He had an

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<v Speaker 1>office in like a nice area in New York. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't remember where this was, but it was nice, fancy, nice,

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<v Speaker 1>pretty office. You couldn't see this doc. You go in,

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<v Speaker 1>there's there's other reps from other companies all over the place.

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<v Speaker 1>You'd wait for two hours and still barely even get,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, ten seconds with this guy. Chris and other

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<v Speaker 1>reps noticed that this doctor was never there on Tuesdays.

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<v Speaker 1>They all assumed it was his day all but after

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<v Speaker 1>some digging, Chris found out those weren't his off days.

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<v Speaker 1>Tuesdays were his Picking Avenue days. Picking Avenue is the

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<v Speaker 1>avenue in Brooklyn that you do not want to go to,

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<v Speaker 1>right like, you gotta have Picking Avenue. You're getting robbed,

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<v Speaker 1>you getting mugs, something's going wrong. It's a dangerous part

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<v Speaker 1>of town. It turns out that doctor was from a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty rough neighborhood and those were his days to give

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<v Speaker 1>back to the community at a small clinic. So Chris

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<v Speaker 1>decided that's where he'd go. I understand that I'll probably

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<v Speaker 1>get my wheels and rims stolen from my car, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to Picking Avenue. And I went in and

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<v Speaker 1>I told the receptionist that, you know, I was a

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<v Speaker 1>pharmaceutical rep. And she looked at me like I was

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<v Speaker 1>an alien, Like what, like, we're actually getting a pharmaceutical

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<v Speaker 1>rep here? Like are you sure you want to be here?

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<v Speaker 1>After about an hour, he got to see the doctor.

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<v Speaker 1>He was so happy. First first he was shocked because

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<v Speaker 1>no one went there, and he was happy that he

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<v Speaker 1>was actually getting attention at this location at Picking Avenue

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<v Speaker 1>for his patients on Picking freaking Avenue. And then the

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<v Speaker 1>doctor started to criticize farmer reps he'd interacted with, because

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<v Speaker 1>they'll always go to the fancy office but never there

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<v Speaker 1>because he's not a lot of money in it. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>he got a lot of patients on like state care

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<v Speaker 1>or governmental care. It's not a nice, fun, easy place

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<v Speaker 1>to go. And that's how Chris started building a relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with this doctor to the point where at the plush

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<v Speaker 1>office I was able to walk in and reps are

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<v Speaker 1>like mad, like what are you doing going back? How's

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<v Speaker 1>he getting back there? But that's what he was. I

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<v Speaker 1>went to Picking Avenue. I served him where he needed

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<v Speaker 1>to be served. I carry that everywhere I go. What

0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 1>do you need? I mean, think about it? Right in

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.800
<v Speaker 1>sales you got to use car lot. That car salesman

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.200
<v Speaker 1>isn't thinking about what you need he's thinking about how

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.640
<v Speaker 1>can I get what I want out of you? Right?

0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:06.000
<v Speaker 1>And so if you're a salesperson, but your lead foot

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.920
<v Speaker 1>is what do you need? Man, you just differentiated yourself

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 1>right there, right off the break. You're not like the others.

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 1>So that really gets on the point of like, when

0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.520
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of people think of sales as

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 1>a occupation, they probably think of like they used car guy.

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.680
<v Speaker 1>But to go back to your comic book days, do

0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.760
<v Speaker 1>think you use your powers for good? I do? I do,

0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 1>I see and also work with people who don't. And

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.480
<v Speaker 1>when we're talking about the pharmaceutical industry, we're talking about

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of money. So yeah, there's a lot of

0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 1>negative stigma you know that comes with it, and it's

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.679
<v Speaker 1>unfortunate because the people who do do it the right way.

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 1>They really are like changing people's lives. Chris started off

0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 1>in primary care generic drugs, and that he works with

0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.920
<v Speaker 1>cancer drugs. It's different. He'll go into an appointment talking

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.040
<v Speaker 1>about a drug that could help a particular patient, and

0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 1>the next appointment, that patient's no longer with us, you know,

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.480
<v Speaker 1>like we can't even pick up on the conversation because

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.200
<v Speaker 1>the patient is gone. It's a much more urgent world

0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 1>over here. There are real stakes involved. This isn't just

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 1>paul an allergy meds. Yeah, yeah, this is this is

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 1>life for death over here. Was ever a moment in

0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 1>your career where you thought, this is why I do

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>what I do. A couple of years back, we were

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 1>at a sales conference and they brought in an elderly

0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:46.440
<v Speaker 1>woman who had stage four lung cancer. That's usually you know,

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.040
<v Speaker 1>like all right, see you later, get your affairs in

0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.920
<v Speaker 1>order kind of thing. The woman told a story about

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 1>how her grandson was trying to lift her spirits and

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.200
<v Speaker 1>made her promise to go skydiving with him later that year.

0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 1>And now her she was convinced that she wasn't you know,

0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:05.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna be around long. So sure, Scott, I haven't no problem.

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 1>And it didn't matter what he said. He could say

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna go to Mars, she'd be like, yep. And

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.360
<v Speaker 1>she was telling us this story, and then behind her

0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.360
<v Speaker 1>they pull up the picture of her jumping out of

0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:24.480
<v Speaker 1>the plane. She lived because of our drug and she

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.040
<v Speaker 1>kept her promise that she never thought she would have

0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 1>to with her grandson. They both jumped out of a

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.240
<v Speaker 1>plane together to hear that story, and to see that image,

0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 1>it's like damn, like, yo, we really are helping save

0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:48.120
<v Speaker 1>people's actual lives. Just throwing a scenario your way. You

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:53.240
<v Speaker 1>sold the drug to her doctor that saved her life

0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.400
<v Speaker 1>and allowed her to have this moment, and she never

0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 1>knows your name. How do you feel about that? That's

0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 1>all right, that's all right. Yeah, that's okay, because um

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.480
<v Speaker 1>we won, we went to the playoffs. We got the

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>big ring, you know, So, yeah, hasn't it hasn't. It

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter. The job got done. For On the Job,

0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm Otus Gray. Thanks for listening to On the Job,

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.440
<v Speaker 1>brought to you by Express Employment Professionals. The season of

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 1>On the Job is produced by Audiation. The episodes were

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 1>written and produced by me Otus Gray. Our executive producer

0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.120
<v Speaker 1>is Sandy Smallens. The show was mixed by Matt Noble

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 1>for Audiations Studios at the Loft in Bronxville, New York.

0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Music by Blue Dot Sessions. Find us on iHeartRadio and

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts. If you liked what you heard, please consider

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.399
<v Speaker 1>rating and reviewing the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.760
<v Speaker 1>you listen. We'll see you next time. For more inspiring

0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 1>stories about discovering your life's work, Audiation,