Speaker 1: Oh, fellow conspiracy realist, this classic episode is a such
Speaker 1: a treat for us and hopefully a treat for you
Speaker 1: as well. We mentioned Edgar Casey in a recent recording
Speaker 1: about the prophecy of the Popes and the idea of
Speaker 1: prophecy in general, and Edgar Casey super into Atlantis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and super into the idea that there was some
Speaker 2: advanced civilization before what we know as civilization. Great, something
Speaker 2: must have existed because of all of these weird little
Speaker 2: pieces of evidence we find throughout.
Speaker 1: The world technologically superior to modern existence.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent.
Speaker 4: And it's one of those stories that I think has
Speaker 4: captured the imaginations of so many people because there just
Speaker 4: seems to be this idea of what came before us.
Speaker 4: And you know, I think there's a good reason that
Speaker 4: the whole idea of this underwater advanced civilization with technology
Speaker 4: that we couldn't possibly wrap our heads around has endured
Speaker 4: so much because I know there is something about lost
Speaker 4: civilizations that just causes the mind to kind of become
Speaker 4: pretty intrigued, at least for me personally, I don't know
Speaker 4: about you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're going to get into is Atlantis even
Speaker 2: the original lost civilization.
Speaker 5: Gain from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
Speaker 5: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
Speaker 5: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 5: A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is No.
Speaker 3: They call me Ben.
Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer Paul,
Speaker 1: Mission controlled decand most importantly, you are here and that
Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3: It occurs to me that although this.
Speaker 1: Soda is coming out in twenty twenty January, most likely
Speaker 1: this is the last episode we are going to record
Speaker 1: for the year. We're recording this at the very end
Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: Woo, Yes, the Lost Decade?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 1: What? Yeah?
Speaker 2: The teams.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because we're also covering something today that many
Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners have asked us to cover for
Speaker 1: years and years and years. We have touched upon this,
Speaker 1: we have mentioned it, but as you all know, longtime listeners,
Speaker 1: when we first set out creating this show, we generally
Speaker 1: wanted to go for more obscure things, things that were
Speaker 1: on the edges of the map, things that mainstream people
Speaker 1: probably would not have encountered.
Speaker 2: Before things that used to be on the map.
Speaker 1: Right, so we skipped over initially things like the jfk
Speaker 1: assassination in area fifty one, you know, the moon landing,
Speaker 1: all those History Channel hits. Today we are finally, we
Speaker 1: are finally investigating something that has been a long time
Speaker 1: coming or a long time going. If you go, if
Speaker 1: you believe the story, and that is the tale of Atlantis,
Speaker 1: not Atlanta Atlantis. So here are the facts, according to
Speaker 1: the folklore, the stories that we all know. Atlantis was
Speaker 1: a civilization located on a mysterious island and in ancient
Speaker 1: times we do very much mean ancient. This civilization was
Speaker 1: a seat of great culture and learning. Like later seats
Speaker 1: of learning such as Alexandria. People came to Atlantis from
Speaker 1: far and why to learn the secrets of technology, to
Speaker 1: divine the workings of the world and the gods, the heavens,
Speaker 1: and the firmament. We know that it was a city
Speaker 1: laid out on this island in sort of concentric rings,
Speaker 1: and it had a central canal going through to the center.
Speaker 1: But Atlantis had some issues. Despite the fact that it
Speaker 1: was so advanced in architecture, art and technology. It was
Speaker 1: destroyed nine thousand years ago, six hundred years ago when
Speaker 1: a wave and earthquake sent by Poseidon, the god of
Speaker 1: waves and the sea and earthquakes. When Poseidon got tired
Speaker 1: of them, he sent these natural disasters or divine disasters,
Speaker 1: to punish the inhabitants for their wicked ways.
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, there, weren't the gods pretty Bacchanalian themselves.
Speaker 1: The interesting choice of words there. Yeah, Any study of
Speaker 1: Greco Roman gods, even the Old Testament god of Judaism, Islam,
Speaker 1: and Christianity, shows a pretty clear study in hypocrisy. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean, do as I say, not as
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 4: I think didn't Zeus come down to Earth in the
Speaker 4: form of like a bull.
Speaker 3: A ram, a goose, goose?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So he could.
Speaker 4: With hisomever, right, Yeah? And I think he stayed in
Speaker 4: goose form when he did that, or.
Speaker 1: The way the story goes, yeah, weird and the you know,
Speaker 1: that's very common in tales of pantheons. But so back
Speaker 1: to Atlantis, we can already see how this story in
Speaker 1: folklore has so much in common with similar tales from
Speaker 1: around the world. Advanced civilizations laid low by divine forces
Speaker 1: and you know, some of the specifics are common to
Speaker 1: other stories. Gods seem to often punish ancient communities via floods.
Speaker 2: And we can see this as a parable of sorts.
Speaker 2: You can choose to read it in that way, which
Speaker 2: is a warning, right, tell people what not to do
Speaker 2: or else lest the be punished.
Speaker 3: A cautionary tale.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yes, parable the first mention of Atlantis. We
Speaker 1: do have the earliest known mention of Atlantis. Very interesting.
Speaker 1: It comes to us from Plato in his dialogues Timaeus
Speaker 1: and Critias. Plato describes Atlantis as not just an island,
Speaker 1: but a huge island. Says it's larger than Libya and
Speaker 1: Asia Minor put together. He also says that he is
Speaker 1: relaying this story third or even fourth hand, which we'll
Speaker 1: we'll get to because there's a character in his dialogue's
Speaker 1: character Critaeus c R.
Speaker 3: T I A S.
Speaker 1: And this guy says, okay, I heard the story of
Speaker 1: Atlantis from my grandfather, who heard it from Athenian politician
Speaker 1: named Solon. This was three hundred years before Plato was around,
Speaker 1: and that this guy, this politician, in turn, learned it
Speaker 1: from an Egyptian priest.
Speaker 3: And the Egyptian priest is.
Speaker 1: The one who says it happened nine thousand years ago.
Speaker 1: Now Atlantis was protected by the god Poseidon. They worshiped,
Speaker 1: and they made the son of Poseidon like a demi god,
Speaker 1: kind of like you alluded to earlier. In all they
Speaker 1: made his son king of the islands. His name was Atlas,
Speaker 1: so he ruled the island and the ocean surrounding it.
Speaker 1: And as the Atlanteans came up in the world, as
Speaker 1: they became more powerful geopolitically, their ethics declined. The place
Speaker 1: was a wash in corruption, in depravity, and perversion. Their
Speaker 1: armies met a lot of success. Eventually, according to the story,
Speaker 1: they conquered parts of North Africa. They went on to
Speaker 1: conquer at least part of Italy, the Etruscan part of Italy.
Speaker 1: And then eventually the people of Athens posseed up with
Speaker 1: some like minded Atlantis haters, and they drove the folks back.
Speaker 1: They drove them out of Italy, they drove them out
Speaker 1: of Egypt and North Africa. But at this point there
Speaker 1: were still very much in play. They just got their
Speaker 1: butts whipped once, and they were still planning to do
Speaker 1: more damage.
Speaker 2: And then Plato's writings continue about Atlantis again in that dialogue,
Speaker 2: this time to Mais, and he writes that this last
Speaker 2: civilization was in fact a location, a place where you
Speaker 2: could go. It was real. He calls it the Pillars
Speaker 2: of Hercules, the area where this where Atlantis existed, and
Speaker 2: these days, like if you looked it up right now, like, hey,
Speaker 2: what are the pillars of Hercules, serie, it would be
Speaker 2: called the Strait of Gibraltar, which is a known thing.
Speaker 2: You can look that up right now.
Speaker 3: You could travel there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could go right now if you want it.
Speaker 4: And Plato argued that despite being technologically advanced and having
Speaker 4: a pretty well organized society, the people of Atlantis didn't
Speaker 4: have infrastructure in place to protect them from the wolf
Speaker 4: that was at their door constantly, basically the threat of
Speaker 4: floods and earthquakes. You know, whether or not they were
Speaker 4: actually sent by gods or not, they had absolu. They
Speaker 4: were basically out there completely unprotected. And that great island
Speaker 4: of Atlantis, along with the city that was built upon it,
Speaker 4: did sink over the course of a single night and
Speaker 4: day right around ninety six hundred BCE.
Speaker 1: Now that would be intense, right right, because again, this
Speaker 1: is larger than Libya and Asia minor. This thing is
Speaker 1: almost its own continent. How could the entire thing be
Speaker 1: gone within forty eight hours? But especially by floods, especially
Speaker 1: by floods and earthquakes.
Speaker 2: Yea, earthquakes makes a little more sense to me.
Speaker 3: That's the question.
Speaker 2: This.
Speaker 4: So it means the sea level just rose so high
Speaker 4: that it swallowed up everything.
Speaker 1: Well, it depends on the kind of tectonic shift too,
Speaker 1: because the sea could have risen or the island.
Speaker 3: Could have just said yea, yeah, that makes sense. So
Speaker 3: here's the deal. That's the story.
Speaker 1: You could beat the full quotations in these dialogues, but
Speaker 1: Plato's tail spoiler alert has a number of vagaries and
Speaker 1: plot holes. First, he doesn't stop at saying that the
Speaker 1: inhabitants of Atlantis worshiped Poseidon. He says that they were
Speaker 1: blood descendants of Poseidon, and this links them more with
Speaker 1: myth than it does with any tribal community that would
Speaker 1: have been extant at the time, you know what I
Speaker 1: mean Atlantis. Also, I like that you pointed out that
Speaker 1: they had a good social system here, because they did
Speaker 1: have a constitution that was eerily incredibly similar to a
Speaker 1: constitution that Plato outlined as a good idea in the Republic,
Speaker 1: So it's it does have it has some troubling ties
Speaker 1: to fiction already. Even ancient Greeks at the time were
Speaker 1: not sure whether, to your point, Matt, whether Plato's story
Speaker 1: was meant to be taken as history or as a
Speaker 1: metaphor and allegory. You know what I mean. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like the braer Rabbit Aesop fables. You know, no one,
Speaker 1: no one really thought there was a talking rabbit, right,
Speaker 1: some people did. I'm sure, I don't want to ruin
Speaker 1: that for any of us listening.
Speaker 2: But in the written history books, right was never written,
Speaker 2: Oh one say, talking rabbit did this and his name
Speaker 2: was this?
Speaker 1: Right? And we have to emphasize this part because there
Speaker 1: were strong doubts about the veracity of this tale from
Speaker 1: the very beginning. And there were two more issues that
Speaker 1: come into play with the timeline that I think raise
Speaker 1: serious questions about this story. Just from the jump, before
Speaker 1: we get anywhere near the most recent millennium, there were
Speaker 1: problems with the story.
Speaker 2: The number one on our list here is that when
Speaker 2: Plato talked about Atlantis, this is the first time it
Speaker 2: had been mentioned before. The phrase Atlantis, the place, the thing,
Speaker 2: just the name itself. Atlantis was the first time it
Speaker 2: was ever mentioned when Plato wrote it down.
Speaker 1: So even though he says it happened nine thousand years ago,
Speaker 1: no one talked about it. This Egyptian priest who so
Speaker 1: willingly told his tale to an Athenian politician apparently never
Speaker 1: talked to anybody else about it at all. And it
Speaker 1: was just this one conversational thread through millennia.
Speaker 3: Why But it's.
Speaker 4: Also, like, I mean, it references the intervention of gods
Speaker 4: as though that is just of course that's what happened, right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: So you got to wonder is he making up some
Speaker 4: sort of teachable moment kind of tale, or where's.
Speaker 3: He getting this info from.
Speaker 1: There's another aspect here, The second part that I think
Speaker 1: is also I don't want to say damning, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't make the tale look good. If this was rediscovered
Speaker 1: knowledge and if it was legitimate, how come none of
Speaker 1: Plato's contemporaries, none of Aristotle's contemporaries deigned to mention it.
Speaker 1: It's a lot like imagine imagine aliens were discovered, extraterrestrials
Speaker 1: were discovered, they were real, and you turn on your
Speaker 1: local cable news to hear about it, and you find
Speaker 1: that only one cable outlet is reporting.
Speaker 3: On it, and it's Fox News. It's only Fox News.
Speaker 2: And it's some intense cataclysmic thing.
Speaker 3: Right right, right, it's a global event.
Speaker 1: You know why is only one source telling us those
Speaker 1: are pretty and those are pretty important pieces. Those are
Speaker 1: things we would think if this were a real place,
Speaker 1: we would have heard about a prior to Plato, or
Speaker 1: we would have at least heard as contemporaries saying something
Speaker 1: about Atlantis.
Speaker 2: I would say, right here, just we're going to explore
Speaker 2: a little more as we go. But you know, around
Speaker 2: the time that Plato is walking around, there had been
Speaker 2: quite a bit of history written down by that point, yes, right, yeah, However,
Speaker 2: there would still be at that time countless tales that
Speaker 2: had only been passed down through word of mouth, right,
Speaker 2: vocal histories that would still that we existed across the
Speaker 2: planet at that time that perhaps never did make it,
Speaker 2: you know, on papyrus or whatever, whatever instrument and piece
Speaker 2: of material you're going to write it down on. I mean,
Speaker 2: just we we have to put that out there as
Speaker 2: in there's still that room, which is where our show
Speaker 2: comes in for speculation, even though these things are going
Speaker 2: against it from the.
Speaker 1: Jump right right, and these valid concerns did not stop
Speaker 1: the party. The legend of Atlantis grew over time, from
Speaker 1: the time of Plato to the time that you are
Speaker 1: hearing this episode. Numerous later authors would argue that Plato
Speaker 1: had part of the story right, but that he was
Speaker 1: let's call it incorrect or confused on multiple accounts. And
Speaker 1: just like any other game of telephone, people embellished this thing.
Speaker 1: They tailored it to fit their own notions. So the
Speaker 1: original story was rephrased as it was retold over and
Speaker 1: over and over again, and soon the residents of Atlantis
Speaker 1: were no longer descended from gods.
Speaker 3: They were actually aliens or hybrids of aliens.
Speaker 1: And these people who believe this would argue that Plato
Speaker 1: in his contemporary we're just we're just framing extraterrestrials through
Speaker 1: a social lens that they could understand. And then they
Speaker 1: would say, well, the city's technology was super advanced. They
Speaker 1: had no idea how advanced it was. They used energy crystals,
Speaker 1: and they affected global oceanic patterns. They affected the world
Speaker 1: in more ways than we know. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: you read some fringe authors saying you can clearly tell
Speaker 1: that all of the quote unquote paranormal disturbances in the
Speaker 1: Bermuda triangle are ultimately traceable back to Atlantis and the
Speaker 1: infernal technology they created. This is not something you would
Speaker 1: read and you know, scientific American Just to be.
Speaker 2: Fair, hey, that is a fun thought experiment that the
Speaker 2: crystals have gone haywire or continue to function in some
Speaker 2: way down at the bottom of the ocean somewhere like
Speaker 2: the idea.
Speaker 1: Sure, and you know, technology functioning in automation after its
Speaker 1: creators have gone is something that could very likely become
Speaker 1: real in our modern day. You know, like the Ray
Speaker 1: Bradberry story, there will come soft rains, or like the
Speaker 1: all the deep space exploratory vehicles that we've put out
Speaker 1: that you know are going on one way trips, we're
Speaker 1: never going to see them again.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm also gonna put here really quickly just for
Speaker 2: you guys to think about. We I think we can
Speaker 2: collectively see where the ancient alien story kind of meets
Speaker 2: up there. As you were talking about the residents turning
Speaker 2: from descendants from gods into descendants of aliens or you know,
Speaker 2: extraterrestrials that would be interpreted, as you said, as gods.
Speaker 2: That is getting us closer closer, I say, to something
Speaker 2: that would be within the realm of reality, from from
Speaker 2: gods at least from our you know, understanding of the
Speaker 2: way the world functions right now, our limited understanding of it.
Speaker 2: But we can see, we can see the reasoning behind
Speaker 2: some of these things. That's not to say that any
Speaker 2: of it is true.
Speaker 1: Right again, you know, the people who were alive in
Speaker 1: that time, in the time of play is writing. People
Speaker 1: who were alive were not dumb. They were not cognitively
Speaker 1: that different from people today.
Speaker 3: They were you know, we're we're.
Speaker 1: Explainers, we're pattern finders. We we want to understand the
Speaker 1: world and we think it's worth understanding. So they were
Speaker 1: just as you're saying, Matt, they were. They were just
Speaker 1: putting the inexplicable, uh through the lens of what they
Speaker 1: thought would explain it. And today you can find multiple
Speaker 1: people still doing the same thing. You can find, for instance,
Speaker 1: you know, the the big shift that occurred in folklore
Speaker 1: fairly recently over the span of time was that stories
Speaker 1: of changelings and abductions by the uncaly or the Fay
Speaker 1: turned into stories of abductions by extraterrestrials or aliens or
Speaker 1: creatures from a different dimension. We're just sort of we're
Speaker 1: cooking the same dish with different ingredients, and we're subbing
Speaker 1: some stuff out, but the stories stay the same. And
Speaker 1: today you can find a lot of people arguing that
Speaker 1: Atlantis was not only a real place, but also the
Speaker 1: Plato got the location wrong. It's kind of like where Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's say it's like George Lucas comes up with
Speaker 1: Star Wars and people say, we love your original idea,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna change everything about it. But you're right,
Speaker 1: there's something called Star Wars. But here's what you got
Speaker 1: wrong about it. So it's almost like there's this this
Speaker 1: centuries long group of producers saying blade, oh baby, Atlantis,
Speaker 1: love it, love everything about it. By you know, when
Speaker 1: you think about it, it's more it's it's more like
Speaker 1: as it's more like a Bermuda, a Caribbean thing, right, right,
Speaker 1: I mean if you really just walk through it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's also you know it's it's or someone else says,
Speaker 1: it's more of a South China sea. You know, I've
Speaker 1: been looking at that, and that's just the kind of
Speaker 1: game that people play. Josh Clark are a longtime friend,
Speaker 1: a host of one of our pure podcasts stuff.
Speaker 3: You should know.
Speaker 1: He he wrote about this and he had a good
Speaker 1: quote where he says, Atlantis is in the Caribbean, Atlantis
Speaker 1: is in the South China Sea, Atlantis is in Switzerland,
Speaker 1: and that's really You'll for every one of those locations,
Speaker 1: you'll have people arguing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, we've even read that Atlantis was somehow a
Speaker 2: part of Antarctica. Yes, I've read that. Yeah, Yeah, they
Speaker 2: don't really stop. But the big question is, right with
Speaker 2: all of this, that we know, all these stories that
Speaker 2: have been told and how they've evolved, where are we
Speaker 2: left right now as we enter twenty twenty when it
Speaker 2: comes to Atlantis.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that really begs the question. Okay, if
Speaker 4: this is a thing, then where's the proof? You know
Speaker 4: what elevates said just from the realm of fantasy and
Speaker 4: a parable kind of situation to hard facts, you know,
Speaker 4: where is the proof of this lost civilization that fits
Speaker 4: the description of Atlantis?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and has anyone actually found something?
Speaker 3: We'll tell you when we come back from a quick break.
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. Well yes, actually, oh oh yes, accord.
Speaker 1: According to the people, Yes, multi people believe that they
Speaker 1: at least know where the mythic civilization of Atlantis was located,
Speaker 1: and some people believe that they have found it, and
Speaker 1: they've been searching for this for a long time now.
Speaker 1: Remember we're talking about two different kinds of Atlantis. One
Speaker 1: kind of Atlantis is the og one the Plato described
Speaker 1: semi utopian society downfall, punished by the gods. A god's
Speaker 1: a real b atlantis, you know, was by Gibaltar, the
Speaker 1: pillars or Hercules. And then the second Atlantis is the
Speaker 1: one that has all the bells and whistles of folklore
Speaker 1: and all of the personal attitudes of people writing about it. Later,
Speaker 1: in the first centuries of the Christian era, people didn't
Speaker 1: really talk too much about Atlantis. They said, you know what,
Speaker 1: Aristotle wrote it, He was quoted in Plato. Those guys
Speaker 1: are stand up dudes. They taught us a lot, so
Speaker 1: we don't need to worry about it. In the sixteen
Speaker 1: hundreds and sixteen twenty seven, there was, of course, Francis Bacon,
Speaker 1: the English philosopher and scientists who published a utopian novel
Speaker 1: titled The New Atlantis, and just like Plato, he was
Speaker 1: mainly I don't know, he was taking the story of
Speaker 1: Atlantis in a different direction. He wasn't saying it was
Speaker 1: necessarily true. He was more interested in exploring the ideas
Speaker 1: of a politically and scientifically advanced society on a previously
Speaker 1: unidentified island that did amazing thing, that did amazing things.
Speaker 1: In sixteen seventy nine there was a Swedish scientist named
Speaker 1: Olas Rudbeck who published a book called Atland, at La
Speaker 1: and d and this this is a work in four volumes,
Speaker 1: and over the course of this this is interesting. I
Speaker 1: haven't read all four volumes, but here's what happens. Essentially
Speaker 1: throughout this four volume work, rude Beek is trying assiduously
Speaker 1: to prove that the thing Plato called Atlantis was located
Speaker 1: in Sweden, which is, by the way, where he's from,
Speaker 1: and that all human languages are descended from Swedish, which is,
Speaker 1: by the way, what he speaks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean this is interesting though, because this
Speaker 2: is the first time where Atlantis is depicted as being
Speaker 2: at the center of humanity, right like the origin point,
Speaker 2: or at least one of the bottlenecks where through the
Speaker 2: origins of humanity went through which they traveled, of connecting
Speaker 2: everything that's occurred on this earth, all languages, all peoples,
Speaker 2: it all centered around Atlantis at one time before they
Speaker 2: spread across the earth.
Speaker 1: And it sounds it sounds weird now, but you're right,
Speaker 1: that's a huge pivot point. It's easy to dismiss it
Speaker 1: knowing what know about the evolution of language today, right,
Speaker 1: that Swedish was not the basis for things like Mandarin, Bantu,
Speaker 1: you know, or other other languages that had existed before then.
Speaker 2: Well, it also goes against the known migratory patterns of
Speaker 2: humanity and you know, our descendants across time. There's still
Speaker 2: a lot of questions there, of course, Yeah, but it
Speaker 2: goes against a lot of that.
Speaker 1: It also would have even back in the sixteen hundred.
Speaker 1: It's been a more compelling argument if the guy making
Speaker 1: it was not himself Swedish. You know, there's its smacks
Speaker 1: of nationalism, and at the time people in Sweden, other
Speaker 1: Swedes thought that makes sense, yeah, sweet, yeah Swede. And
Speaker 1: even then people out even then there were people who
Speaker 1: did not believe Rubik's association and they were pretty much
Speaker 1: everybody who wasn't Swedishi said, this doesn't make sense, and
Speaker 1: we have other examples. There are so many that we
Speaker 1: can't that we're trying. We've got to sort of emphasize
Speaker 1: the ones that show us pivot points. So in the
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and there was a US congressman, former US
Speaker 1: congressman with a great name, Ignacious L. Donnelly, and he
Speaker 1: published a book called Atlantis, The Antidiluvian World. And this
Speaker 1: this became a watershed moment for not the best choice
Speaker 1: of words, for what is sometimes called the occultization of Atlantis,
Speaker 1: which is taking member again, and we're talking about two
Speaker 1: different conceptual places. This one was putting the emphasis on
Speaker 1: suppressed technology, on this idea of a proto civilization upon
Speaker 1: which the majority of not all, of modern civilizations are based.
Speaker 1: So he says that Atlantis was more it did. Yes,
Speaker 1: it did have its capital, its seat on an island,
Speaker 1: but it was really an empire of sorts, and that
Speaker 1: immigrants from Atlantis had gone to ancient Europe, to Africa,
Speaker 1: to the American continents, and that their heroes would ultimately
Speaker 1: become the inspiration for gods and adventurers in other mythologies Scandinavian, Hindu,
Speaker 1: and Greek. So it's similar to Rudbik's claim, but this
Speaker 1: was the more popular version, was a more sophisticated argument
Speaker 1: because now he's saying, not only does language spring from
Speaker 1: this place, but everything you see that feels like a
Speaker 1: common thread throughout global mythology is because it all comes
Speaker 1: from the same place. We're recognized pattern, we're categorizing. And
Speaker 1: it's one of the most popular survivor arguments that the
Speaker 1: floods and the earthquakes consumed everything in a night and
Speaker 1: a day, and some people survived, or maybe they were
Speaker 1: just happened to be out of town, off the island,
Speaker 1: and they brought their knowledge to other ancient people. So
Speaker 1: that's why you'll see you'll see arguments that say, well,
Speaker 1: look at these unexplained carvings on the you know, toward
Speaker 1: the eastern side of South America or Central America, and
Speaker 1: you'll see people arguing that, well, the Olmecs were actually Atlantean,
Speaker 1: or those myths in some areas of the world about
Speaker 1: mysterious pale people who show up and tell you how
Speaker 1: to do things, those are stories about people from Atlantis.
Speaker 1: There's not a lot to back this up, but it's
Speaker 1: a very it was for its time. It's a blockbuster.
Speaker 1: It's something that people love because it ties into the
Speaker 1: concurrent rise of an interest in spirituality and science united
Speaker 1: that we can, despite the fact that we were bad
Speaker 1: at it earlier, our species can in fact understand the
Speaker 1: world around us. And so people who were followers of
Speaker 1: theosophy and people later who would become what we would
Speaker 1: later call new Agers or people who have New Age beliefs,
Speaker 1: loved this and they were saying, well, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: this means that esp clairvoyance, all these other things that
Speaker 1: are dismissed by the scientific the scientific institutions.
Speaker 3: Of these days.
Speaker 1: Maybe they were just ancient technology and Atlantis had a
Speaker 1: handle on it and it's being suppressed. And this is
Speaker 1: where we enter the story of a guy named Edgar
Speaker 1: Casey who did something really interesting. Have we ever talked
Speaker 1: about Edgar Casey on this show?
Speaker 3: Pretty sure we have?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's mostly an I mentioned when
Speaker 2: we are getting into some of these realms that's right
Speaker 2: of Lost History Year something like that. He comes up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he was a he was born in eighteen
Speaker 1: seventy seven. He was a clairvoyant and he would go
Speaker 1: into trances. He was known as the Sleeping Prophet, and
Speaker 1: in his trances he would answer questions that people ask
Speaker 1: him about everything from nutrition to chronic illness, reincarnation, future wars,
Speaker 1: future events of global import and he talked about Atlantis
Speaker 1: as well. His story is a little bit different from
Speaker 1: Rude Bek's, a little bit different from Bacon's and so on,
Speaker 1: because he and different from my boy Ignatius because he
Speaker 1: had a specific prediction that appeared, depending on where you stand,
Speaker 1: appeared to come true.
Speaker 4: And just a quick mentioned we did talk about Edgar
Speaker 4: Casey in an episode called Prophecy, Predictions and pre Science.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay, I think it was back in the
Speaker 4: YouTube days as well, so there should be a video
Speaker 4: version of okay in addition to the audio.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, Ben, he got very specific about a place where,
Speaker 2: at least some part of the thing that we call Atlantis,
Speaker 2: the city would rise up from the ocean depths at
Speaker 2: some point, and he pinpointed, he said he would rise
Speaker 2: off off the coast of Beamini that's right at the
Speaker 2: western end of the Bahamas. And he was like, that
Speaker 2: is definitely going to happen, you guys, I'm Edgar Casey.
Speaker 2: That's my word, and I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 3: That's how he talked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Atlantis is gonna hang out over there off Beamini.
Speaker 2: And guess what happened in nineteen sixty eight, nol.
Speaker 3: I don't have to guess.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's right here.
Speaker 4: A diver actually discovered an underwater rock formation. Yes, that's
Speaker 4: now known as the Bamini Road. Oh, it's fascinating or
Speaker 4: not it was man made, whether it was natural, it's
Speaker 4: just not known right now.
Speaker 2: Well, it appears to be natural. Just got to put
Speaker 2: that out there. It appears to be natural, but I
Speaker 2: don't believe it.
Speaker 1: I don't know man because it looks sure, it could
Speaker 1: all be just a pattern that we are inventing that
Speaker 1: we attempt to see. But if you pull up photographs
Speaker 1: of it, it looks it looks like these are gigantic
Speaker 1: stones laid out in a pattern, right, like a cobblestone
Speaker 1: road for giants.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Again, experts have poo pooed the idea that it was
Speaker 1: man made. It's also sometimes called the Beamini wall, and
Speaker 1: they look like they're limestone blocks laid out in order
Speaker 1: in a pattern. It's not hard to find. You can
Speaker 1: see a ton of photographs of it. However, there are
Speaker 1: people who feel that there's a geological, non human argument
Speaker 1: for its creation, and then there are people who feel
Speaker 1: like it has been created by some ancient civilization.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't that be relatively easy to test for, like in
Speaker 3: terms of the composition or the consistency of the material.
Speaker 3: I'm no underwater geologist or anything, which you would think that,
Speaker 3: you know, taking a sample, you could date it at
Speaker 3: the very least, and then kind of figure out what
Speaker 3: kind of material it's made of, and based on that,
Speaker 3: figure out if it was cobbled together from different stuff,
Speaker 3: or if it's consistent or whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, I think this calls for a Bemini trip. Guys, yes, Bahamas,
Speaker 2: sure you don't. Of course we need to go.
Speaker 3: Can I bring my snorkel and a face mask or
Speaker 3: have to.
Speaker 2: We're going to get a snorkel, We're going to get
Speaker 2: face mask, oxygen tanks. We're going to send Paul down there.
Speaker 2: We're going to start an Applebee's on the ocean.
Speaker 3: Under the ocean, well, it's.
Speaker 2: Gonna be right above like floating.
Speaker 3: This is floating. Yeah, but the events based under the water, you.
Speaker 2: Can snorkel the Bemani Road to get.
Speaker 3: There, There we go, there we go. Yeah, gotta have
Speaker 3: T shirts.
Speaker 1: And then also flippers. What's the what's the fancy word
Speaker 1: for those you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2: Flippers?
Speaker 3: Are you just calling flippers?
Speaker 2: I think so fins?
Speaker 3: Maybe fins, fliers, foot fins.
Speaker 2: Here's guys, here's the best part about the Applebee's that's
Speaker 2: gonna float above the Beamini Road.
Speaker 1: Is it that they play Atlantis the Lost Empire four
Speaker 1: to seven.
Speaker 2: I mean, that will certainly be a feature. The best
Speaker 2: part is that when you go there, you're gonna have
Speaker 2: your four basic food groups. Okay, okay, beans, yeah, bacon, whiskey. Right, oh,
Speaker 2: and there's a fourth one, lard.
Speaker 3: Why did you just hold up three fingers?
Speaker 2: I just in my head, I was like, there are
Speaker 2: four things within my hand. Betrayed me?
Speaker 6: Really did?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: Hang on, I'm gonna make eye contact with with Michigan
Speaker 1: Control sufficient.
Speaker 3: Okay, we got we got it. Okay, we got a
Speaker 3: weird nod though. I think we can lean into this
Speaker 3: a little a.
Speaker 1: Little further, but yeah, yeah, it's it's weird because Bemini Road.
Speaker 1: What's fascinating about this is that it's when people are
Speaker 1: arguing it's man made. It's often presented as a relatively
Speaker 1: unique thing, but it's it's one of several types of
Speaker 1: formations found throughout the world. There's a tessellated pavement in Tasmania.
Speaker 1: There's the uh in Oklahoma. There's this jointed bedrock that
Speaker 1: has been called a Phoenician fortress in Furnace.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: There's a place called Battlement Mesa in Colorado.
Speaker 2: What was that when you just mentioned before the Battlement what.
Speaker 3: We're Phoenician fortress and furnace Oklahoma.
Speaker 2: Also, I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what it's called. And how much of that,
Speaker 1: how much of that branding is for how much that
Speaker 1: branding is to get tourism. It doesn't matter now because
Speaker 1: I think it got paved over in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: So Beamini Road.
Speaker 1: Has some cons it's got some pros. Like you said,
Speaker 1: no old people are still fighting over it being man
Speaker 1: made or natural thing, mainly those b geologists saying that
Speaker 1: it's just something that happened. And then it would be
Speaker 1: a lot of supporters of Edgar Casey, some of some
Speaker 1: of the members of the Association for Research and Enlightenment,
Speaker 1: the nonprofit formed to study his work, who argue that
Speaker 1: it is man made revidence of a greater civilization. Man
Speaker 1: Egar Casey is just so fascinating. When I was I
Speaker 1: was younger, I used to be really into it. But
Speaker 1: the thing, though, is regardless of which way you look
Speaker 1: at it, he did say that there was something.
Speaker 3: There in Bemini.
Speaker 2: Well, he said it was going to rise up.
Speaker 3: Okay, so he wasn't completely right.
Speaker 2: But maybe he just meant it would rise up in
Speaker 2: our consciousness because we would be made aware of it.
Speaker 1: Oh, here we go, all right, I'll play your reindeer games.
Speaker 1: So maybe there's some interpretation that we're lacking here. It's true,
Speaker 1: it's true. Maybe you know, maybe, like Plato, the arguments
Speaker 1: out whether you're speaking allegorically or literally. So this is
Speaker 1: great because we're already touching on some controversies right. Two
Speaker 1: big big problems was solving the mystery of the Atlantis story. First,
Speaker 1: as we said, there's so much added to the original tale.
Speaker 1: If you think about it now, Plato himself would not
Speaker 1: recognize a lot of the things that are considered canonical
Speaker 1: Atlantis folklore in the modern day. He would essentially be
Speaker 1: going like, what the hell as an alien? Are you
Speaker 1: guys thinking of gods? Yeah, because he might say there's
Speaker 1: no such thing as there's no such thing as aliens.
Speaker 3: You know, and one man's alien, there's another man's.
Speaker 1: God, right exactly, And then he would say something around
Speaker 1: along the lines of like no, no, if there were aliens,
Speaker 1: they've got gods to They're probably the same ones.
Speaker 3: Maybe not.
Speaker 1: I don't know, seas like space beside and rules all
Speaker 1: of it, who knows. Secondly, and this is the most
Speaker 1: important part of the story, we know lost civilizations exist.
Speaker 1: This world is littered with remnants and ruins of groups, communities, villages,
Speaker 1: entire cities, some of which remain unidentified the modern day.
Speaker 1: We keep finding evidence of unknown people from ages past,
Speaker 1: and it is possible, if not plausible, that one of
Speaker 1: these groups may have provided the real world grain of
Speaker 1: factual sand upon which this whole pearl of the Atlantis
Speaker 1: myth slowly accreted over time. You'll see why accreted is
Speaker 1: a terrible pun. In a minute or so after a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: And we're back and we're going to delve into some
Speaker 2: of these Uh, well, well they're not pearls. What do
Speaker 2: we call them? We're gonna call them because Atlantis is
Speaker 2: the pearl, right, These are the grains that are around
Speaker 2: the pearl.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, okay, if Atlantis is the if Atlantis is
Speaker 1: the main dish, okay, if Atlantis is the Applebee's entree, yes,
Speaker 1: a lot of civilizations. These are the the apps in
Speaker 1: the side, dish apps, apps.
Speaker 2: And the dessert that also comes with it.
Speaker 4: Okay, I gotta tell you, I can't place a signature
Speaker 4: Applebee's app in my mind. Like I think of outback,
Speaker 4: I think of a blue then onion, I think chili is,
Speaker 4: I think Southwestern.
Speaker 3: Egg rolls, jalapeno poppers. Maybe that's generic though, Oh you mean.
Speaker 2: Like Paul's got him locked in load and I'm just
Speaker 2: trying to see if.
Speaker 3: I oh.
Speaker 4: Paul, I know he's not allowing himself to be recorded,
Speaker 4: which that still bothers me.
Speaker 3: But I'm not gonna leave that alone.
Speaker 4: Paul says in our ears, from from his mouth to
Speaker 4: our ears, to your ears, that every dish at Applebee's
Speaker 4: is a signature dish.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Sure, Okay. What I'm thinking, at least in my my
Speaker 2: traversings to Applebee's is the chicken fingers with honey mustard
Speaker 2: as an appetizer.
Speaker 1: Well, you can also get the classic combo. I pulled
Speaker 1: up the menu.
Speaker 2: Oh, where you build your own sampler.
Speaker 1: Essentially, Yeah, brisk at casadea is an appetizer, which is
Speaker 1: crazy because that's a meal. The case is a good meal.
Speaker 1: But yes, it is true. Let let Paul be our
Speaker 1: Plato of Applebee's and you are Aristotle interpreting that, and
Speaker 1: then we'll figure out who the Casey is. The Iggercasey
Speaker 1: later is that you?
Speaker 2: No, I figured out the perfect Applebee's appetizer, you guys,
Speaker 2: because it speaks so loudly to app two Applebee's for
Speaker 2: me it breadsticks with Alfredo sauce.
Speaker 3: I saw that sounds disgusting.
Speaker 2: What it's perfect?
Speaker 3: I think we're just not high. That's probably a speak
Speaker 3: for yourself.
Speaker 1: But right, so it is true though from time to time,
Speaker 1: and this is the crazy tantalizing for some people, irritating
Speaker 1: for other people. Thing about the search for Atlantas and
Speaker 1: places like this. Every so often archaeologists and historians do
Speaker 1: find stuff. They find hard evidence of things, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Things like a swampy prehistoric city in coastal Spain, suspicious
Speaker 4: undersee rock formation in the Bahamas. That's the one all
Speaker 4: might be sources for a potential genesis of the Atlantis story.
Speaker 4: Of these, the site with the widest acceptance is the
Speaker 4: Greek island of Santorini. Santorini Sanerini, ancient Therah, that's what
Speaker 4: it was called back in the day, a half submerged
Speaker 4: remnant of a volcano known as a caldera, created by
Speaker 4: the massive second millennium BC volcanic eruption, which created a
Speaker 4: tsunami that could have really, you know, hastened the collapse
Speaker 4: of the Minoan civilization.
Speaker 3: On crete, crete, crete, get it a crete. That horrible
Speaker 3: joke paid off.
Speaker 1: It went all the way after the from before the
Speaker 1: commercial break or metastasized, depending on whether you think that
Speaker 1: was chuckleworthy or cancerous.
Speaker 3: Oh all right, well here we are.
Speaker 2: It's like a good spin artichoke.
Speaker 3: Man, there there is.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're absolutely right, You're absolutely right, because people
Speaker 1: do continue to find things. There's another real life place
Speaker 1: that has a lot in common with the Atlantis myth
Speaker 1: and geographically could be something that people in Plato's time
Speaker 1: would have been aware of, and that is a coastal
Speaker 1: city called Helike or Helique, which is located on the
Speaker 1: Gulf of Corinth in Greece. So it was and it's
Speaker 1: heyday the center of the Acaan League, and the Acaan
Speaker 1: League was a confederacy of sorts of twelve different cities.
Speaker 1: By the time Plato was coming up in the Game
Speaker 1: of Philosophy, this city was already hundreds of years old.
Speaker 1: Like Atlantis, it was wealthy, like Atlantis, it controlled the
Speaker 1: seas around it, and like Atlantis, it had established colonies
Speaker 1: and other nearby areas. Like Italy, the residents, like those
Speaker 1: of mythic Atlantis, also worshiped Poseidon. For five days December three,
Speaker 1: seventy three BCE, witnesses in the area of this city
Speaker 1: noticed that vermin and other small animals snakes and sex
Speaker 1: mice and so on, were leaving the coast and they
Speaker 1: were going to the mountains that formed the southern border
Speaker 1: of the Hilike Delta.
Speaker 3: And we all know what adult is.
Speaker 1: Modern seismologists have also noted that some animals do appear
Speaker 1: to have a preternatural sense, a little bit of predictive
Speaker 1: ability when it comes to imminent earthquakes.
Speaker 2: Some of that low level, low rumble no it's not rumble,
Speaker 2: but the movement that it is occurring vibrations. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: are so of such a low frequency, but it just
Speaker 2: can be sensed.
Speaker 1: And oddly enough, you know, we did look in this
Speaker 1: into this a little bit in earlier episodes, but oddly enough,
Speaker 1: we see tremendous anecdotal evidence that some animals can predict
Speaker 1: the weather. Matt, you had the most or predict those disasters, Matt,
Speaker 1: you had the most salient argument there with the idea
Speaker 1: that they're very attuned to vibrations that maybe people ignore, right,
Speaker 1: or maybe they can also sense barometric changes.
Speaker 2: Barometric is where I'm interested. Yeah, I want to study that.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to. I've always wanted to get some
Speaker 1: more some more research on people who can predict the
Speaker 1: weather due to an injury flaring up. Yeah, there's also
Speaker 1: probably a pressure change joints. Yeah, yeah, I always thought
Speaker 1: that was a super I still do. If someone if
Speaker 1: someone who has kind of a messed up leg tells
Speaker 1: me that a storm's coming, I believe them.
Speaker 3: I'm going inside, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm waiting outside for the first bolt to hopefully
Speaker 2: strike true.
Speaker 3: That's very regular of you, trust. But verify. I gotcha.
Speaker 2: I was just talking about hoping to get struck by lightning.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'll just keep going.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I just want to know. I just want
Speaker 1: to see if you'll get powers. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think surviving a lightning strike is a superpower as well.
Speaker 1: You know, multi their people have been struck by lightning
Speaker 1: multiple times.
Speaker 2: I told you guys before about Coach Trit from from
Speaker 2: my middle school, Travis Chidwell Well middle school science teacher.
Speaker 2: Coach Trit struck by lightning at least twice.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, really, yeah, at least twice.
Speaker 2: I know. I remember one of them was playing cards
Speaker 2: in his uh in his dining room, lightning bolt came
Speaker 2: right down through the chandelier and got.
Speaker 3: Him because gambling is a sin.
Speaker 2: And maybe that was it.
Speaker 3: Coach Tritt was the second time he was asking.
Speaker 2: That was the second time, I think the first time
Speaker 2: was out on the field for something.
Speaker 1: And was he being a plato about this? Was he
Speaker 1: relaying a story without first hand proof?
Speaker 2: No, this is him, Coach trip struck by light And
Speaker 2: he was like, I got hit twice and I'm still here.
Speaker 3: Did you believe them?
Speaker 2: I did well? I I mean I was a middle
Speaker 2: school er.
Speaker 3: Do you have any like powder esque powers?
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't notice any, but he certainly was
Speaker 2: no good at science.
Speaker 3: No, I am, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I thought the story Powder is interesting, but due to
Speaker 1: us some intense problems I have with the director, I
Speaker 1: can't recommend the film.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that guy got big time camp.
Speaker 2: Wait wait, who should be? Who directed it?
Speaker 4: I forget his name, but he was found to have
Speaker 4: been participating in a lot of molestation.
Speaker 1: I believe Victor Salva also the creative mind behind.
Speaker 3: Jeepers Creepers, oh Man.
Speaker 1: Yep, and as the convicted known child abuser, but studios
Speaker 1: kept working with he kept uh yeah, he actually kept
Speaker 1: going after being convicted in nineteen eighty eight for the
Speaker 1: abuse of children.
Speaker 2: And then made Powder and then I watched it and
Speaker 2: I loved it, and I watched it again and again.
Speaker 1: And then made Jeepers Creepers, which, to be fair, I mean,
Speaker 1: to be fair, it's pretty.
Speaker 3: Solid little horror horror flic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a It's set a record for the largest
Speaker 1: Labor day box office opening ever.
Speaker 2: Wow. So so anyway, where's that flood when you need it?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: There we go, There we go. Where's Poseidon in all
Speaker 1: of this? And when he needs to flood the studio? Well,
Speaker 1: let's go back to Let's go back to this area, because,
Speaker 1: so we said three seventy three BCE, the small animals
Speaker 1: are starting to leave the coast. And we have to
Speaker 1: also remember that again, people of this age were just
Speaker 1: as smart as people are today, and just as many problems,
Speaker 1: just as many good points to themselves as a community
Speaker 1: and as individuals. But they were also much more in
Speaker 1: tune with the natural world around them, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, So they would have recognized that animals were leaving.
Speaker 1: In the middle of the night. On that fifth day,
Speaker 1: a huge earthquake struck the area. And then what happens
Speaker 1: when there are earthquakes around the ocean, a tsunami came
Speaker 1: from the Gulf of Corinth. In just a matter of minutes.
Speaker 1: According to the accounts, the city of Helika was overcome
Speaker 1: by the sea and it sank, just the way that
Speaker 1: Plato described Atlantis. It happened very quickly.
Speaker 2: Do you see what I mean, nool, He explains everything,
Speaker 2: it seems to.
Speaker 1: So why let's look, let's look a little bit at
Speaker 1: the you know, the geography, and then let's also, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I think we let's call this part of
Speaker 1: the argument multiple Atlantis is atlantasies.
Speaker 4: So you've got the Gulf of Corinth that has several
Speaker 4: factors that make it particularly prone to these types of disasters.
Speaker 4: It is a hotbed of tectonic plate activity. Humans were
Speaker 4: big fans of living there, and the three rivers that
Speaker 4: formed the delta also bring lots of silt deposits.
Speaker 2: To cover things up. Right, once something goes down gets
Speaker 2: covered over pretty easily, that's right.
Speaker 4: And the research you discovered ancient helike after twelve years
Speaker 4: of digging also found that this ravage of nature happened
Speaker 4: more than one time. The attractiveness of the area and
Speaker 4: its attendant destructiveness formed a cycle where humans established a
Speaker 4: city and then nature said no, thank you, removed it.
Speaker 4: And then after enough time had passed, people forgot what
Speaker 4: the problem was, what went so terribly wrong, and they
Speaker 4: built another city on top of the old one.
Speaker 3: Yep. And they may not have even known the old
Speaker 3: one was there. They may have just said, this.
Speaker 1: Soil is great, Look how well everything grows. It's so abundant.
Speaker 3: Why has no one built a city here? Because I
Speaker 3: have an idea.
Speaker 2: My gosh, I'm also gonna postulate that maybe they did. Remember,
Speaker 2: they just went, We're gonna build it better.
Speaker 1: This time, Yes, this time will instead of huts of straw,
Speaker 1: will build huts of wood, and then huts of brick,
Speaker 1: and we'll see if this big bad wolf is real.
Speaker 4: And like Coach Tritt before his second lightning, you know,
Speaker 4: they're like, well, you know, lightning doesn't.
Speaker 1: Strike twice exactly until it does. That's a different god,
Speaker 1: that's Zeus. And they're like, we're Poseidon folk. So archaeologists,
Speaker 1: like like we had mentioned before who discovered Elite. As
Speaker 1: they continued their investigation, they found evidence of more lost
Speaker 1: cities in the ground. Underneath that delta silt, they found
Speaker 1: cities from the Byzantine period that ended in the fifteenth
Speaker 1: century CE or AD. And then under that literally under that,
Speaker 1: they found a ruined Roman city from between the second
Speaker 1: and fourth centuries. And then under that that's where they
Speaker 1: found Alice, which was destroyed as we said in three
Speaker 1: seven three BCE. But what they weren't expecting.
Speaker 2: Here is where it gets crazy. I just want to
Speaker 2: set that up. Continue please.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they found an earlier ruined city from the
Speaker 1: Bronze Age. Now we're getting to the age where we
Speaker 1: have to kind of approximate things. They said, this one
Speaker 1: was from around twenty six hundred to twenty three hundred BCE.
Speaker 2: And then yes, they found evidence of human civilization or
Speaker 2: some kind of habitation that went even further back than that.
Speaker 2: We're talking Neolithic period. And you know, if you're estimating,
Speaker 2: which again, as Ben said, you have to, it would
Speaker 2: go back to twelve thousand years ago. How crazy is that?
Speaker 2: We you know, we set up the scenario kind of
Speaker 2: jokingly that that people would build a city here, then
Speaker 2: it would collapse, we would forget as humans, so then
Speaker 2: build again. But that is precisely what has has been
Speaker 2: happening there for thousands of years.
Speaker 1: All in all, there are six distinct that like, six
Speaker 1: distinct communities have all been discovered at this same spot.
Speaker 3: And they all rose, and they all fell, and they
Speaker 3: all got buried by the rivers.
Speaker 1: And this is the kind of stuff that makes a legend, right,
Speaker 1: And this is where we this is where we leave
Speaker 1: the episode today. Is it possible that Atlantis is a
Speaker 1: mixture of the mistranslations? I mean quite probably, And the
Speaker 1: story's not over the search for the city continues. There's
Speaker 1: a guy who thinks he's found the lost city in
Speaker 1: Spain a few years back, about sixty miles in inland
Speaker 1: away from the coast. And then, of course, most recently
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, a tech company called Merlin Burrows when
Speaker 1: public and said they may have found the lost city
Speaker 1: of Atlantis, and they think it's off the coast of
Speaker 1: Spain near the Donana National Park. They argue that they've
Speaker 1: found the remains of temples and towers, that they date
Speaker 1: the material between ten and twelve thousand years old, and
Speaker 1: they have some computer representations you can see about this.
Speaker 2: It looks interesting, almost looks Indonesian to me something, at
Speaker 2: least the rever presentations that they've placed online.
Speaker 1: Right right, And they call themselves a land and seat
Speaker 1: Merlin Boroughs that has calls itself a land and sea
Speaker 1: search company specializing in finding forgotten or hidden things. But
Speaker 1: if you read their press releases, they're also quick to
Speaker 1: point out they have a documentary on the horizon called Atlantica,
Speaker 1: which will put all the questions to rest.
Speaker 2: Yay, yeah, maybe maybe maybe they've actually figured it out.
Speaker 1: Maybe they have, maybe they have time will tell so
Speaker 1: Brian Dunning, who created the Skeptoid podcast, describes Atlantis. He says,
Speaker 1: the myth of Atlantis is in the simplest terms and
Speaker 1: Elvis sighting, and so he's looking at it more of
Speaker 1: a pop culture thing. And he says, you know, he
Speaker 1: talks about how people kept trying to keep Elvis alive.
Speaker 1: And he says similarly, over the course of the two thousand,
Speaker 1: in almost five hundred years since Plato wrote about Atlantis,
Speaker 1: and countless people have tried to match his fiction to
Speaker 1: some actual island or geographical structure. We already know the
Speaker 1: efforts from vain because he says Atlantis was never anything
Speaker 1: but an allegorical device used briefly by a philosopher who
Speaker 1: made stuff like this up all the time. And this
Speaker 1: is as established a fact as is the death of
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, because we know that Plato did work with
Speaker 1: allegory a lot.
Speaker 2: So this is what I want to put to you guys. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna have to organize it in my head
Speaker 2: quickly here before I go and three two, Okay, we're there.
Speaker 2: Do you guys think that it is possible at all
Speaker 2: that there was some kind of advanced civilization that existed
Speaker 2: at one point on the Earth, even if it was
Speaker 2: just very small. Let's just say, if we're gonna thought experiment,
Speaker 2: a base or a landing zone come paired to or
Speaker 2: similar to the way we visited the Moon the first
Speaker 2: time during the Apollo missions, where we landed, we're just
Speaker 2: in one area. It just kind of But in this
Speaker 2: case it's extraterrestrials of some form. They're highly advanced. They
Speaker 2: land on Earth just for a little bit to do
Speaker 2: some exploration. Do you think there's a site or there's
Speaker 2: a possibility that there is a site somewhere on this
Speaker 2: Earth where that occurred.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the tricky thing.
Speaker 2: There's a lot you have to unpack an order to
Speaker 2: get there.
Speaker 1: I would want clarification on what we mean by advance.
Speaker 1: I would say as far as an extra terrestrial site,
Speaker 1: it's tough because Earth is a living thing, and it's
Speaker 1: a voracious living thing.
Speaker 3: It eats evidence, you know.
Speaker 1: One of the first arguments against that would be that
Speaker 1: we don't see evidence of that in the fossil record
Speaker 1: or historical record. One of the arguments for it would
Speaker 1: be people saying we do. We just don't recognize what
Speaker 1: we've found, right, like. So, to answer the question in
Speaker 1: short form, I believe it is absolutely possible, depending on
Speaker 1: how we want to define advance to believe it is
Speaker 1: absolutely possible that earlier undiscovered civilizations were round. I think
Speaker 1: it's absolutely possible that humanity in terms of socio political
Speaker 1: entity or civilization has earlier iterations that we just haven't
Speaker 1: found because it's hard to find things and it's very
Speaker 1: easy to.
Speaker 3: Lose them, you know.
Speaker 1: But as far as extraterrestrials, I don't know if I'm
Speaker 1: willing to go that far. I just think it's I
Speaker 1: think it's an It takes a tremendous amount of hubrist
Speaker 1: for us to say we know for sure every lost civilization.
Speaker 4: But I mean Rome was an advanced civilization, you know,
Speaker 4: compared comparatively for the time, you know, and we found
Speaker 4: all of that. I mean, I figure, for let's a
Speaker 4: big enough footprint to have made an impact, we would
Speaker 4: find something.
Speaker 3: Right footprint versus time, right, right.
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got one more, one more thing to ask
Speaker 2: you guys. What if Atlantis was rather than an extraterrestrial civilization,
Speaker 2: it was like a sub terrestrial subterranean uh Like, Okay,
Speaker 2: let's just say some other intelligent force that emerged from
Speaker 2: the sea that came up and existed in some kind
Speaker 2: of way in a vehicle for a long period of time,
Speaker 2: or were they base and then it eventually just went
Speaker 2: back down into the ocean.
Speaker 3: Like Eldritch forces of some sort, maybe Eldridge.
Speaker 2: Maybe you know something, some intelligence that had been on
Speaker 2: this planet far before you know, the evolution of our species.
Speaker 4: Hmm, I don't know, Matt. It's an interesting question. It's
Speaker 4: an interesting thought experiment.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm trying to do with you, guys.
Speaker 1: We don't know a whole lot about the subterranean depths. Really.
Speaker 1: A few years back, god, several years back now, there
Speaker 1: was an expedition that we applied to that said they
Speaker 1: were going to go to Antarctica to try to discover
Speaker 1: the entrance to this huge cavern system that they believed existed.
Speaker 1: People who will argue for the quote unquote kind of
Speaker 1: hollow earth theory will typically more science based arguments will
Speaker 1: say not that the entirety of the Earth is hollow,
Speaker 1: but that there are vast caverns and systems that could
Speaker 1: house thriving ecosystems. Right, so I could see that, I
Speaker 1: would say also to illustrate how little we know about
Speaker 1: the world before us. Remember when we did the episode
Speaker 1: on the early mixtapes of Man right, Theofluens, Yeah and
Speaker 1: Denisovan's and Neanderthal. This year there was a new species
Speaker 1: of ancient human discovered no way, Yeah, Yes, waited in
Speaker 1: the Philippines. Homo luzoninsis okay.
Speaker 3: And it is.
Speaker 1: It's a small body hominin, similar to the Homo florensis
Speaker 1: and lived at least fifty thousand and sixty seven thousand
Speaker 1: years ago. Also turns out Homo erectus persisted in Java
Speaker 1: as recently as one hundred thousand years ago, tangentially related.
Speaker 1: The main reasons I bring it up here because A
Speaker 1: it's really fascinating, and B I think it is a
Speaker 1: fantastic illustration of how little we know about again, the
Speaker 1: civilizations that preceded our own, or the people in the
Speaker 1: world's you know, incredible.
Speaker 3: Incredibly weird.
Speaker 1: You have to wonder how long it's going to take
Speaker 1: our civilization to disappear.
Speaker 6: I don't know what, well, from now, five years, thirty years,
Speaker 6: give me a break, I mean, I'll you know, one
Speaker 6: thing we can say for sure is that on the
Speaker 6: timeline of history, of all history of the universe.
Speaker 4: We are but a spec and may not be quite
Speaker 4: as important as we think.
Speaker 3: So let's hold on to all.
Speaker 1: We got it, guys, and that's our classic episode for
Speaker 1: this evening.
Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear your thoughts. That's right, let
Speaker 3: us know what you think.
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