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Speaker 1: Oh, fellow conspiracy realist, this classic episode is a such

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Speaker 1: a treat for us and hopefully a treat for you

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Speaker 1: as well. We mentioned Edgar Casey in a recent recording

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Speaker 1: about the prophecy of the Popes and the idea of

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Speaker 1: prophecy in general, and Edgar Casey super into Atlantis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and super into the idea that there was some

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Speaker 2: advanced civilization before what we know as civilization. Great, something

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Speaker 2: must have existed because of all of these weird little

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Speaker 2: pieces of evidence we find throughout.

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Speaker 1: The world technologically superior to modern existence.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: And it's one of those stories that I think has

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Speaker 4: captured the imaginations of so many people because there just

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Speaker 4: seems to be this idea of what came before us.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I think there's a good reason that

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Speaker 4: the whole idea of this underwater advanced civilization with technology

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Speaker 4: that we couldn't possibly wrap our heads around has endured

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Speaker 4: so much because I know there is something about lost

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Speaker 4: civilizations that just causes the mind to kind of become

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Speaker 4: pretty intrigued, at least for me personally, I don't know

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Speaker 4: about you guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're going to get into is Atlantis even

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Speaker 2: the original lost civilization.

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Speaker 5: Gain from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History

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Speaker 5: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now

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Speaker 5: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 5: A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is No.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer Paul,

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Speaker 1: Mission controlled decand most importantly, you are here and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: It occurs to me that although this.

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Speaker 1: Soda is coming out in twenty twenty January, most likely

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Speaker 1: this is the last episode we are going to record

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Speaker 1: for the year. We're recording this at the very end

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Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Woo, Yes, the Lost Decade?

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Speaker 3: Is that?

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Speaker 1: What? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: The teams.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because we're also covering something today that many

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Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners have asked us to cover for

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Speaker 1: years and years and years. We have touched upon this,

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Speaker 1: we have mentioned it, but as you all know, longtime listeners,

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Speaker 1: when we first set out creating this show, we generally

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Speaker 1: wanted to go for more obscure things, things that were

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Speaker 1: on the edges of the map, things that mainstream people

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Speaker 1: probably would not have encountered.

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Speaker 2: Before things that used to be on the map.

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Speaker 1: Right, so we skipped over initially things like the jfk

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Speaker 1: assassination in area fifty one, you know, the moon landing,

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Speaker 1: all those History Channel hits. Today we are finally, we

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Speaker 1: are finally investigating something that has been a long time

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Speaker 1: coming or a long time going. If you go, if

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Speaker 1: you believe the story, and that is the tale of Atlantis,

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Speaker 1: not Atlanta Atlantis. So here are the facts, according to

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Speaker 1: the folklore, the stories that we all know. Atlantis was

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Speaker 1: a civilization located on a mysterious island and in ancient

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Speaker 1: times we do very much mean ancient. This civilization was

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Speaker 1: a seat of great culture and learning. Like later seats

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Speaker 1: of learning such as Alexandria. People came to Atlantis from

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Speaker 1: far and why to learn the secrets of technology, to

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Speaker 1: divine the workings of the world and the gods, the heavens,

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Speaker 1: and the firmament. We know that it was a city

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Speaker 1: laid out on this island in sort of concentric rings,

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Speaker 1: and it had a central canal going through to the center.

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Speaker 1: But Atlantis had some issues. Despite the fact that it

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Speaker 1: was so advanced in architecture, art and technology. It was

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Speaker 1: destroyed nine thousand years ago, six hundred years ago when

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Speaker 1: a wave and earthquake sent by Poseidon, the god of

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Speaker 1: waves and the sea and earthquakes. When Poseidon got tired

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Speaker 1: of them, he sent these natural disasters or divine disasters,

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Speaker 1: to punish the inhabitants for their wicked ways.

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Speaker 4: Wait a minute, there, weren't the gods pretty Bacchanalian themselves.

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Speaker 1: The interesting choice of words there. Yeah, Any study of

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Speaker 1: Greco Roman gods, even the Old Testament god of Judaism, Islam,

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Speaker 1: and Christianity, shows a pretty clear study in hypocrisy. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, do as I say, not as

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Speaker 1: I do.

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Speaker 4: I think didn't Zeus come down to Earth in the

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Speaker 4: form of like a bull.

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Speaker 3: A ram, a goose, goose?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So he could.

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Speaker 4: With hisomever, right, Yeah? And I think he stayed in

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Speaker 4: goose form when he did that, or.

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Speaker 1: The way the story goes, yeah, weird and the you know,

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Speaker 1: that's very common in tales of pantheons. But so back

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Speaker 1: to Atlantis, we can already see how this story in

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Speaker 1: folklore has so much in common with similar tales from

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Speaker 1: around the world. Advanced civilizations laid low by divine forces

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Speaker 1: and you know, some of the specifics are common to

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Speaker 1: other stories. Gods seem to often punish ancient communities via floods.

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Speaker 2: And we can see this as a parable of sorts.

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Speaker 2: You can choose to read it in that way, which

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Speaker 2: is a warning, right, tell people what not to do

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Speaker 2: or else lest the be punished.

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Speaker 3: A cautionary tale.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yes, parable the first mention of Atlantis. We

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Speaker 1: do have the earliest known mention of Atlantis. Very interesting.

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Speaker 1: It comes to us from Plato in his dialogues Timaeus

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Speaker 1: and Critias. Plato describes Atlantis as not just an island,

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Speaker 1: but a huge island. Says it's larger than Libya and

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Speaker 1: Asia Minor put together. He also says that he is

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Speaker 1: relaying this story third or even fourth hand, which we'll

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Speaker 1: we'll get to because there's a character in his dialogue's

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Speaker 1: character Critaeus c R.

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Speaker 3: T I A S.

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Speaker 1: And this guy says, okay, I heard the story of

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Speaker 1: Atlantis from my grandfather, who heard it from Athenian politician

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Speaker 1: named Solon. This was three hundred years before Plato was around,

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Speaker 1: and that this guy, this politician, in turn, learned it

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Speaker 1: from an Egyptian priest.

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Speaker 3: And the Egyptian priest is.

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Speaker 1: The one who says it happened nine thousand years ago.

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Speaker 1: Now Atlantis was protected by the god Poseidon. They worshiped,

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Speaker 1: and they made the son of Poseidon like a demi god,

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Speaker 1: kind of like you alluded to earlier. In all they

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Speaker 1: made his son king of the islands. His name was Atlas,

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Speaker 1: so he ruled the island and the ocean surrounding it.

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Speaker 1: And as the Atlanteans came up in the world, as

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Speaker 1: they became more powerful geopolitically, their ethics declined. The place

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Speaker 1: was a wash in corruption, in depravity, and perversion. Their

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Speaker 1: armies met a lot of success. Eventually, according to the story,

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Speaker 1: they conquered parts of North Africa. They went on to

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Speaker 1: conquer at least part of Italy, the Etruscan part of Italy.

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Speaker 1: And then eventually the people of Athens posseed up with

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Speaker 1: some like minded Atlantis haters, and they drove the folks back.

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Speaker 1: They drove them out of Italy, they drove them out

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Speaker 1: of Egypt and North Africa. But at this point there

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Speaker 1: were still very much in play. They just got their

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Speaker 1: butts whipped once, and they were still planning to do

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Speaker 1: more damage.

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Speaker 2: And then Plato's writings continue about Atlantis again in that dialogue,

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Speaker 2: this time to Mais, and he writes that this last

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Speaker 2: civilization was in fact a location, a place where you

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Speaker 2: could go. It was real. He calls it the Pillars

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Speaker 2: of Hercules, the area where this where Atlantis existed, and

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Speaker 2: these days, like if you looked it up right now, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: what are the pillars of Hercules, serie, it would be

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Speaker 2: called the Strait of Gibraltar, which is a known thing.

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Speaker 2: You can look that up right now.

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Speaker 3: You could travel there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you could go right now if you want it.

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Speaker 4: And Plato argued that despite being technologically advanced and having

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Speaker 4: a pretty well organized society, the people of Atlantis didn't

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Speaker 4: have infrastructure in place to protect them from the wolf

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Speaker 4: that was at their door constantly, basically the threat of

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Speaker 4: floods and earthquakes. You know, whether or not they were

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Speaker 4: actually sent by gods or not, they had absolu. They

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Speaker 4: were basically out there completely unprotected. And that great island

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Speaker 4: of Atlantis, along with the city that was built upon it,

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Speaker 4: did sink over the course of a single night and

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Speaker 4: day right around ninety six hundred BCE.

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Speaker 1: Now that would be intense, right right, because again, this

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Speaker 1: is larger than Libya and Asia minor. This thing is

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Speaker 1: almost its own continent. How could the entire thing be

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Speaker 1: gone within forty eight hours? But especially by floods, especially

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Speaker 1: by floods and earthquakes.

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Speaker 2: Yea, earthquakes makes a little more sense to me.

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Speaker 3: That's the question.

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Speaker 2: This.

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Speaker 4: So it means the sea level just rose so high

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Speaker 4: that it swallowed up everything.

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Speaker 1: Well, it depends on the kind of tectonic shift too,

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Speaker 1: because the sea could have risen or the island.

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Speaker 3: Could have just said yea, yeah, that makes sense. So

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Speaker 3: here's the deal. That's the story.

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Speaker 1: You could beat the full quotations in these dialogues, but

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Speaker 1: Plato's tail spoiler alert has a number of vagaries and

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Speaker 1: plot holes. First, he doesn't stop at saying that the

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Speaker 1: inhabitants of Atlantis worshiped Poseidon. He says that they were

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Speaker 1: blood descendants of Poseidon, and this links them more with

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Speaker 1: myth than it does with any tribal community that would

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Speaker 1: have been extant at the time, you know what I

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Speaker 1: mean Atlantis. Also, I like that you pointed out that

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Speaker 1: they had a good social system here, because they did

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Speaker 1: have a constitution that was eerily incredibly similar to a

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Speaker 1: constitution that Plato outlined as a good idea in the Republic,

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Speaker 1: So it's it does have it has some troubling ties

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Speaker 1: to fiction already. Even ancient Greeks at the time were

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Speaker 1: not sure whether, to your point, Matt, whether Plato's story

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Speaker 1: was meant to be taken as history or as a

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Speaker 1: metaphor and allegory. You know what I mean. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like the braer Rabbit Aesop fables. You know, no one,

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Speaker 1: no one really thought there was a talking rabbit, right,

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Speaker 1: some people did. I'm sure, I don't want to ruin

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Speaker 1: that for any of us listening.

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Speaker 2: But in the written history books, right was never written,

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Speaker 2: Oh one say, talking rabbit did this and his name

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Speaker 2: was this?

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Speaker 1: Right? And we have to emphasize this part because there

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Speaker 1: were strong doubts about the veracity of this tale from

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Speaker 1: the very beginning. And there were two more issues that

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Speaker 1: come into play with the timeline that I think raise

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Speaker 1: serious questions about this story. Just from the jump, before

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Speaker 1: we get anywhere near the most recent millennium, there were

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Speaker 1: problems with the story.

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Speaker 2: The number one on our list here is that when

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Speaker 2: Plato talked about Atlantis, this is the first time it

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Speaker 2: had been mentioned before. The phrase Atlantis, the place, the thing,

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Speaker 2: just the name itself. Atlantis was the first time it

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Speaker 2: was ever mentioned when Plato wrote it down.

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Speaker 1: So even though he says it happened nine thousand years ago,

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Speaker 1: no one talked about it. This Egyptian priest who so

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Speaker 1: willingly told his tale to an Athenian politician apparently never

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Speaker 1: talked to anybody else about it at all. And it

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Speaker 1: was just this one conversational thread through millennia.

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Speaker 3: Why But it's.

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Speaker 4: Also, like, I mean, it references the intervention of gods

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Speaker 4: as though that is just of course that's what happened, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: So you got to wonder is he making up some

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Speaker 4: sort of teachable moment kind of tale, or where's.

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Speaker 3: He getting this info from.

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Speaker 1: There's another aspect here, The second part that I think

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Speaker 1: is also I don't want to say damning, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make the tale look good. If this was rediscovered

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Speaker 1: knowledge and if it was legitimate, how come none of

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Speaker 1: Plato's contemporaries, none of Aristotle's contemporaries deigned to mention it.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot like imagine imagine aliens were discovered, extraterrestrials

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Speaker 1: were discovered, they were real, and you turn on your

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Speaker 1: local cable news to hear about it, and you find

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Speaker 1: that only one cable outlet is reporting.

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Speaker 3: On it, and it's Fox News. It's only Fox News.

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Speaker 2: And it's some intense cataclysmic thing.

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Speaker 3: Right right, right, it's a global event.

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Speaker 1: You know why is only one source telling us those

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Speaker 1: are pretty and those are pretty important pieces. Those are

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Speaker 1: things we would think if this were a real place,

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Speaker 1: we would have heard about a prior to Plato, or

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Speaker 1: we would have at least heard as contemporaries saying something

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Speaker 1: about Atlantis.

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Speaker 2: I would say, right here, just we're going to explore

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Speaker 2: a little more as we go. But you know, around

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Speaker 2: the time that Plato is walking around, there had been

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Speaker 2: quite a bit of history written down by that point, yes, right, yeah, However,

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Speaker 2: there would still be at that time countless tales that

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Speaker 2: had only been passed down through word of mouth, right,

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Speaker 2: vocal histories that would still that we existed across the

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Speaker 2: planet at that time that perhaps never did make it,

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Speaker 2: you know, on papyrus or whatever, whatever instrument and piece

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Speaker 2: of material you're going to write it down on. I mean,

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Speaker 2: just we we have to put that out there as

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Speaker 2: in there's still that room, which is where our show

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Speaker 2: comes in for speculation, even though these things are going

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Speaker 2: against it from the.

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Speaker 1: Jump right right, and these valid concerns did not stop

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Speaker 1: the party. The legend of Atlantis grew over time, from

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Speaker 1: the time of Plato to the time that you are

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Speaker 1: hearing this episode. Numerous later authors would argue that Plato

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Speaker 1: had part of the story right, but that he was

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Speaker 1: let's call it incorrect or confused on multiple accounts. And

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Speaker 1: just like any other game of telephone, people embellished this thing.

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Speaker 1: They tailored it to fit their own notions. So the

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Speaker 1: original story was rephrased as it was retold over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again, and soon the residents of Atlantis

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Speaker 1: were no longer descended from gods.

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Speaker 3: They were actually aliens or hybrids of aliens.

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Speaker 1: And these people who believe this would argue that Plato

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Speaker 1: in his contemporary we're just we're just framing extraterrestrials through

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Speaker 1: a social lens that they could understand. And then they

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Speaker 1: would say, well, the city's technology was super advanced. They

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Speaker 1: had no idea how advanced it was. They used energy crystals,

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Speaker 1: and they affected global oceanic patterns. They affected the world

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Speaker 1: in more ways than we know. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: you read some fringe authors saying you can clearly tell

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Speaker 1: that all of the quote unquote paranormal disturbances in the

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Speaker 1: Bermuda triangle are ultimately traceable back to Atlantis and the

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Speaker 1: infernal technology they created. This is not something you would

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Speaker 1: read and you know, scientific American Just to be.

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Speaker 2: Fair, hey, that is a fun thought experiment that the

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Speaker 2: crystals have gone haywire or continue to function in some

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Speaker 2: way down at the bottom of the ocean somewhere like

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Speaker 2: the idea.

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Speaker 1: Sure, and you know, technology functioning in automation after its

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Speaker 1: creators have gone is something that could very likely become

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Speaker 1: real in our modern day. You know, like the Ray

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Speaker 1: Bradberry story, there will come soft rains, or like the

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Speaker 1: all the deep space exploratory vehicles that we've put out

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Speaker 1: that you know are going on one way trips, we're

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Speaker 1: never going to see them again.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm also gonna put here really quickly just for

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Speaker 2: you guys to think about. We I think we can

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Speaker 2: collectively see where the ancient alien story kind of meets

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Speaker 2: up there. As you were talking about the residents turning

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Speaker 2: from descendants from gods into descendants of aliens or you know,

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Speaker 2: extraterrestrials that would be interpreted, as you said, as gods.

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Speaker 2: That is getting us closer closer, I say, to something

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Speaker 2: that would be within the realm of reality, from from

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Speaker 2: gods at least from our you know, understanding of the

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Speaker 2: way the world functions right now, our limited understanding of it.

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Speaker 2: But we can see, we can see the reasoning behind

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Speaker 2: some of these things. That's not to say that any

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Speaker 2: of it is true.

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Speaker 1: Right again, you know, the people who were alive in

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Speaker 1: that time, in the time of play is writing. People

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Speaker 1: who were alive were not dumb. They were not cognitively

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Speaker 1: that different from people today.

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Speaker 3: They were you know, we're we're.

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Speaker 1: Explainers, we're pattern finders. We we want to understand the

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Speaker 1: world and we think it's worth understanding. So they were

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Speaker 1: just as you're saying, Matt, they were. They were just

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Speaker 1: putting the inexplicable, uh through the lens of what they

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Speaker 1: thought would explain it. And today you can find multiple

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Speaker 1: people still doing the same thing. You can find, for instance,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the big shift that occurred in folklore

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Speaker 1: fairly recently over the span of time was that stories

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Speaker 1: of changelings and abductions by the uncaly or the Fay

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Speaker 1: turned into stories of abductions by extraterrestrials or aliens or

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Speaker 1: creatures from a different dimension. We're just sort of we're

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Speaker 1: cooking the same dish with different ingredients, and we're subbing

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Speaker 1: some stuff out, but the stories stay the same. And

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Speaker 1: today you can find a lot of people arguing that

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Speaker 1: Atlantis was not only a real place, but also the

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Speaker 1: Plato got the location wrong. It's kind of like where Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's say it's like George Lucas comes up with

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Speaker 1: Star Wars and people say, we love your original idea,

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Speaker 1: but we're gonna change everything about it. But you're right,

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Speaker 1: there's something called Star Wars. But here's what you got

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Speaker 1: wrong about it. So it's almost like there's this this

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Speaker 1: centuries long group of producers saying blade, oh baby, Atlantis,

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Speaker 1: love it, love everything about it. By you know, when

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Speaker 1: you think about it, it's more it's it's more like

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Speaker 1: as it's more like a Bermuda, a Caribbean thing, right, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean if you really just walk through it, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's also you know it's it's or someone else says,

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Speaker 1: it's more of a South China sea. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: been looking at that, and that's just the kind of

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Speaker 1: game that people play. Josh Clark are a longtime friend,

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Speaker 1: a host of one of our pure podcasts stuff.

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Speaker 3: You should know.

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Speaker 1: He he wrote about this and he had a good

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Speaker 1: quote where he says, Atlantis is in the Caribbean, Atlantis

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Speaker 1: is in the South China Sea, Atlantis is in Switzerland,

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Speaker 1: and that's really You'll for every one of those locations,

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Speaker 1: you'll have people arguing that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, we've even read that Atlantis was somehow a

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Speaker 2: part of Antarctica. Yes, I've read that. Yeah, Yeah, they

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Speaker 2: don't really stop. But the big question is, right with

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Speaker 2: all of this, that we know, all these stories that

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Speaker 2: have been told and how they've evolved, where are we

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Speaker 2: left right now as we enter twenty twenty when it

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Speaker 2: comes to Atlantis.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that really begs the question. Okay, if

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Speaker 4: this is a thing, then where's the proof? You know

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Speaker 4: what elevates said just from the realm of fantasy and

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Speaker 4: a parable kind of situation to hard facts, you know,

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Speaker 4: where is the proof of this lost civilization that fits

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Speaker 4: the description of Atlantis?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and has anyone actually found something?

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Speaker 3: We'll tell you when we come back from a quick break.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. Well yes, actually, oh oh yes, accord.

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Speaker 1: According to the people, Yes, multi people believe that they

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Speaker 1: at least know where the mythic civilization of Atlantis was located,

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Speaker 1: and some people believe that they have found it, and

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Speaker 1: they've been searching for this for a long time now.

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Speaker 1: Remember we're talking about two different kinds of Atlantis. One

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Speaker 1: kind of Atlantis is the og one the Plato described

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Speaker 1: semi utopian society downfall, punished by the gods. A god's

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Speaker 1: a real b atlantis, you know, was by Gibaltar, the

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Speaker 1: pillars or Hercules. And then the second Atlantis is the

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Speaker 1: one that has all the bells and whistles of folklore

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Speaker 1: and all of the personal attitudes of people writing about it. Later,

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Speaker 1: in the first centuries of the Christian era, people didn't

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Speaker 1: really talk too much about Atlantis. They said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: Aristotle wrote it, He was quoted in Plato. Those guys

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Speaker 1: are stand up dudes. They taught us a lot, so

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Speaker 1: we don't need to worry about it. In the sixteen

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Speaker 1: hundreds and sixteen twenty seven, there was, of course, Francis Bacon,

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Speaker 1: the English philosopher and scientists who published a utopian novel

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Speaker 1: titled The New Atlantis, and just like Plato, he was

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Speaker 1: mainly I don't know, he was taking the story of

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Speaker 1: Atlantis in a different direction. He wasn't saying it was

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Speaker 1: necessarily true. He was more interested in exploring the ideas

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Speaker 1: of a politically and scientifically advanced society on a previously

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Speaker 1: unidentified island that did amazing thing, that did amazing things.

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Speaker 1: In sixteen seventy nine there was a Swedish scientist named

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Speaker 1: Olas Rudbeck who published a book called Atland, at La

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Speaker 1: and d and this this is a work in four volumes,

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Speaker 1: and over the course of this this is interesting. I

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Speaker 1: haven't read all four volumes, but here's what happens. Essentially

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Speaker 1: throughout this four volume work, rude Beek is trying assiduously

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Speaker 1: to prove that the thing Plato called Atlantis was located

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Speaker 1: in Sweden, which is, by the way, where he's from,

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Speaker 1: and that all human languages are descended from Swedish, which is,

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Speaker 1: by the way, what he speaks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean this is interesting though, because this

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Speaker 2: is the first time where Atlantis is depicted as being

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Speaker 2: at the center of humanity, right like the origin point,

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Speaker 2: or at least one of the bottlenecks where through the

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Speaker 2: origins of humanity went through which they traveled, of connecting

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Speaker 2: everything that's occurred on this earth, all languages, all peoples,

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Speaker 2: it all centered around Atlantis at one time before they

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Speaker 2: spread across the earth.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds it sounds weird now, but you're right,

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Speaker 1: that's a huge pivot point. It's easy to dismiss it

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Speaker 1: knowing what know about the evolution of language today, right,

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Speaker 1: that Swedish was not the basis for things like Mandarin, Bantu,

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Speaker 1: you know, or other other languages that had existed before then.

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Speaker 2: Well, it also goes against the known migratory patterns of

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Speaker 2: humanity and you know, our descendants across time. There's still

403
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Speaker 2: a lot of questions there, of course, Yeah, but it

404
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Speaker 2: goes against a lot of that.

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Speaker 1: It also would have even back in the sixteen hundred.

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Speaker 1: It's been a more compelling argument if the guy making

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Speaker 1: it was not himself Swedish. You know, there's its smacks

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Speaker 1: of nationalism, and at the time people in Sweden, other

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Speaker 1: Swedes thought that makes sense, yeah, sweet, yeah Swede. And

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Speaker 1: even then people out even then there were people who

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Speaker 1: did not believe Rubik's association and they were pretty much

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Speaker 1: everybody who wasn't Swedishi said, this doesn't make sense, and

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Speaker 1: we have other examples. There are so many that we

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Speaker 1: can't that we're trying. We've got to sort of emphasize

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Speaker 1: the ones that show us pivot points. So in the

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and there was a US congressman, former US

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Speaker 1: congressman with a great name, Ignacious L. Donnelly, and he

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Speaker 1: published a book called Atlantis, The Antidiluvian World. And this

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Speaker 1: this became a watershed moment for not the best choice

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Speaker 1: of words, for what is sometimes called the occultization of Atlantis,

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Speaker 1: which is taking member again, and we're talking about two

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Speaker 1: different conceptual places. This one was putting the emphasis on

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Speaker 1: suppressed technology, on this idea of a proto civilization upon

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Speaker 1: which the majority of not all, of modern civilizations are based.

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Speaker 1: So he says that Atlantis was more it did. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it did have its capital, its seat on an island,

427
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Speaker 1: but it was really an empire of sorts, and that

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Speaker 1: immigrants from Atlantis had gone to ancient Europe, to Africa,

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Speaker 1: to the American continents, and that their heroes would ultimately

430
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Speaker 1: become the inspiration for gods and adventurers in other mythologies Scandinavian, Hindu,

431
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: and Greek. So it's similar to Rudbik's claim, but this

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Speaker 1: was the more popular version, was a more sophisticated argument

433
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Speaker 1: because now he's saying, not only does language spring from

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Speaker 1: this place, but everything you see that feels like a

435
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: common thread throughout global mythology is because it all comes

436
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: from the same place. We're recognized pattern, we're categorizing. And

437
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: it's one of the most popular survivor arguments that the

438
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: floods and the earthquakes consumed everything in a night and

439
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: a day, and some people survived, or maybe they were

440
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: just happened to be out of town, off the island,

441
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: and they brought their knowledge to other ancient people. So

442
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: that's why you'll see you'll see arguments that say, well,

443
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: look at these unexplained carvings on the you know, toward

444
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: the eastern side of South America or Central America, and

445
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: you'll see people arguing that, well, the Olmecs were actually Atlantean,

446
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: or those myths in some areas of the world about

447
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: mysterious pale people who show up and tell you how

448
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: to do things, those are stories about people from Atlantis.

449
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: There's not a lot to back this up, but it's

450
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: a very it was for its time. It's a blockbuster.

451
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: It's something that people love because it ties into the

452
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: concurrent rise of an interest in spirituality and science united

453
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: that we can, despite the fact that we were bad

454
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: at it earlier, our species can in fact understand the

455
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: world around us. And so people who were followers of

456
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: theosophy and people later who would become what we would

457
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: later call new Agers or people who have New Age beliefs,

458
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: loved this and they were saying, well, you know, maybe

459
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: this means that esp clairvoyance, all these other things that

460
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: are dismissed by the scientific the scientific institutions.

461
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: Of these days.

462
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: Maybe they were just ancient technology and Atlantis had a

463
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: handle on it and it's being suppressed. And this is

464
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: where we enter the story of a guy named Edgar

465
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: Casey who did something really interesting. Have we ever talked

466
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: about Edgar Casey on this show?

467
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: Pretty sure we have?

468
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's mostly an I mentioned when

469
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: we are getting into some of these realms that's right

470
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: of Lost History Year something like that. He comes up.

471
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he was a he was born in eighteen

472
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: seventy seven. He was a clairvoyant and he would go

473
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: into trances. He was known as the Sleeping Prophet, and

474
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: in his trances he would answer questions that people ask

475
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: him about everything from nutrition to chronic illness, reincarnation, future wars,

476
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: future events of global import and he talked about Atlantis

477
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: as well. His story is a little bit different from

478
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: Rude Bek's, a little bit different from Bacon's and so on,

479
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: because he and different from my boy Ignatius because he

480
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: had a specific prediction that appeared, depending on where you stand,

481
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: appeared to come true.

482
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 4: And just a quick mentioned we did talk about Edgar

483
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 4: Casey in an episode called Prophecy, Predictions and pre Science.

484
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay, I think it was back in the

485
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 4: YouTube days as well, so there should be a video

486
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 4: version of okay in addition to the audio.

487
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: Oh yes, Ben, he got very specific about a place where,

488
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: at least some part of the thing that we call Atlantis,

489
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: the city would rise up from the ocean depths at

490
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: some point, and he pinpointed, he said he would rise

491
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: off off the coast of Beamini that's right at the

492
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: western end of the Bahamas. And he was like, that

493
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: is definitely going to happen, you guys, I'm Edgar Casey.

494
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: That's my word, and I'm sticking to it.

495
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: That's how he talked.

496
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Atlantis is gonna hang out over there off Beamini.

497
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: And guess what happened in nineteen sixty eight, nol.

498
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 3: I don't have to guess.

499
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: Okay, it's right here.

500
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: A diver actually discovered an underwater rock formation. Yes, that's

501
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 4: now known as the Bamini Road. Oh, it's fascinating or

502
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 4: not it was man made, whether it was natural, it's

503
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 4: just not known right now.

504
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: Well, it appears to be natural. Just got to put

505
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: that out there. It appears to be natural, but I

506
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: don't believe it.

507
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: I don't know man because it looks sure, it could

508
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: all be just a pattern that we are inventing that

509
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: we attempt to see. But if you pull up photographs

510
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: of it, it looks it looks like these are gigantic

511
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: stones laid out in a pattern, right, like a cobblestone

512
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: road for giants.

513
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: You know.

514
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,239
Speaker 1: Again, experts have poo pooed the idea that it was

515
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: man made. It's also sometimes called the Beamini wall, and

516
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: they look like they're limestone blocks laid out in order

517
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: in a pattern. It's not hard to find. You can

518
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: see a ton of photographs of it. However, there are

519
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: people who feel that there's a geological, non human argument

520
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: for its creation, and then there are people who feel

521
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: like it has been created by some ancient civilization.

522
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: Wouldn't that be relatively easy to test for, like in

523
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: terms of the composition or the consistency of the material.

524
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 3: I'm no underwater geologist or anything, which you would think that,

525
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: you know, taking a sample, you could date it at

526
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: the very least, and then kind of figure out what

527
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: kind of material it's made of, and based on that,

528
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: figure out if it was cobbled together from different stuff,

529
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: or if it's consistent or whatever.

530
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think this calls for a Bemini trip. Guys, yes, Bahamas,

531
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: sure you don't. Of course we need to go.

532
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 3: Can I bring my snorkel and a face mask or

533
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: have to.

534
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: We're going to get a snorkel, We're going to get

535
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: face mask, oxygen tanks. We're going to send Paul down there.

536
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: We're going to start an Applebee's on the ocean.

537
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 3: Under the ocean, well, it's.

538
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: Gonna be right above like floating.

539
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: This is floating. Yeah, but the events based under the water, you.

540
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: Can snorkel the Bemani Road to get.

541
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 3: There, There we go, there we go. Yeah, gotta have

542
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 3: T shirts.

543
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 1: And then also flippers. What's the what's the fancy word

544
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: for those you know what I'm talking about?

545
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: Flippers?

546
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: Are you just calling flippers?

547
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: I think so fins?

548
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 3: Maybe fins, fliers, foot fins.

549
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 2: Here's guys, here's the best part about the Applebee's that's

550
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 2: gonna float above the Beamini Road.

551
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: Is it that they play Atlantis the Lost Empire four

552
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: to seven.

553
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 2: I mean, that will certainly be a feature. The best

554
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: part is that when you go there, you're gonna have

555
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: your four basic food groups. Okay, okay, beans, yeah, bacon, whiskey. Right, oh,

556
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: and there's a fourth one, lard.

557
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 3: Why did you just hold up three fingers?

558
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: I just in my head, I was like, there are

559
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: four things within my hand. Betrayed me?

560
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 6: Really did?

561
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: Okay?

562
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: Hang on, I'm gonna make eye contact with with Michigan

563
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: Control sufficient.

564
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: Okay, we got we got it. Okay, we got a

565
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: weird nod though. I think we can lean into this

566
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 3: a little a.

567
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: Little further, but yeah, yeah, it's it's weird because Bemini Road.

568
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: What's fascinating about this is that it's when people are

569
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: arguing it's man made. It's often presented as a relatively

570
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: unique thing, but it's it's one of several types of

571
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: formations found throughout the world. There's a tessellated pavement in Tasmania.

572
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: There's the uh in Oklahoma. There's this jointed bedrock that

573
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 1: has been called a Phoenician fortress in Furnace.

574
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: Uh.

575
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: There's a place called Battlement Mesa in Colorado.

576
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: What was that when you just mentioned before the Battlement what.

577
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 3: We're Phoenician fortress and furnace Oklahoma.

578
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: Also, I've never heard of that.

579
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: Well, that's what it's called. And how much of that,

580
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: how much of that branding is for how much that

581
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 1: branding is to get tourism. It doesn't matter now because

582
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: I think it got paved over in twenty sixteen.

583
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 3: So Beamini Road.

584
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: Has some cons it's got some pros. Like you said,

585
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: no old people are still fighting over it being man

586
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: made or natural thing, mainly those b geologists saying that

587
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: it's just something that happened. And then it would be

588
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: a lot of supporters of Edgar Casey, some of some

589
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: of the members of the Association for Research and Enlightenment,

590
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: the nonprofit formed to study his work, who argue that

591
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: it is man made revidence of a greater civilization. Man

592
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: Egar Casey is just so fascinating. When I was I

593
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: was younger, I used to be really into it. But

594
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: the thing, though, is regardless of which way you look

595
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: at it, he did say that there was something.

596
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 3: There in Bemini.

597
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: Well, he said it was going to rise up.

598
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 3: Okay, so he wasn't completely right.

599
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: But maybe he just meant it would rise up in

600
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: our consciousness because we would be made aware of it.

601
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: Oh, here we go, all right, I'll play your reindeer games.

602
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: So maybe there's some interpretation that we're lacking here. It's true,

603
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: it's true. Maybe you know, maybe, like Plato, the arguments

604
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: out whether you're speaking allegorically or literally. So this is

605
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: great because we're already touching on some controversies right. Two

606
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: big big problems was solving the mystery of the Atlantis story. First,

607
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: as we said, there's so much added to the original tale.

608
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: If you think about it now, Plato himself would not

609
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: recognize a lot of the things that are considered canonical

610
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: Atlantis folklore in the modern day. He would essentially be

611
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: going like, what the hell as an alien? Are you

612
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: guys thinking of gods? Yeah, because he might say there's

613
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: no such thing as there's no such thing as aliens.

614
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: You know, and one man's alien, there's another man's.

615
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: God, right exactly, And then he would say something around

616
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: along the lines of like no, no, if there were aliens,

617
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: they've got gods to They're probably the same ones.

618
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: Maybe not.

619
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: I don't know, seas like space beside and rules all

620
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: of it, who knows. Secondly, and this is the most

621
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: important part of the story, we know lost civilizations exist.

622
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: This world is littered with remnants and ruins of groups, communities, villages,

623
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: entire cities, some of which remain unidentified the modern day.

624
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: We keep finding evidence of unknown people from ages past,

625
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: and it is possible, if not plausible, that one of

626
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: these groups may have provided the real world grain of

627
00:38:54,280 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: factual sand upon which this whole pearl of the Atlantis

628
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: myth slowly accreted over time. You'll see why accreted is

629
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: a terrible pun. In a minute or so after a

630
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors.

631
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: And we're back and we're going to delve into some

632
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: of these Uh, well, well they're not pearls. What do

633
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: we call them? We're gonna call them because Atlantis is

634
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 2: the pearl, right, These are the grains that are around

635
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 2: the pearl.

636
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, okay, if Atlantis is the if Atlantis is

637
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: the main dish, okay, if Atlantis is the Applebee's entree, yes,

638
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: a lot of civilizations. These are the the apps in

639
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: the side, dish apps, apps.

640
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 2: And the dessert that also comes with it.

641
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 4: Okay, I gotta tell you, I can't place a signature

642
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 4: Applebee's app in my mind. Like I think of outback,

643
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 4: I think of a blue then onion, I think chili is,

644
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: I think Southwestern.

645
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: Egg rolls, jalapeno poppers. Maybe that's generic though, Oh you mean.

646
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: Like Paul's got him locked in load and I'm just

647
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: trying to see if.

648
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: I oh.

649
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 4: Paul, I know he's not allowing himself to be recorded,

650
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 4: which that still bothers me.

651
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 3: But I'm not gonna leave that alone.

652
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 4: Paul says in our ears, from from his mouth to

653
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 4: our ears, to your ears, that every dish at Applebee's

654
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: is a signature dish.

655
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: Uh.

656
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 2: Sure, Okay. What I'm thinking, at least in my my

657
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 2: traversings to Applebee's is the chicken fingers with honey mustard

658
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: as an appetizer.

659
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: Well, you can also get the classic combo. I pulled

660
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: up the menu.

661
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: Oh, where you build your own sampler.

662
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: Essentially, Yeah, brisk at casadea is an appetizer, which is

663
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: crazy because that's a meal. The case is a good meal.

664
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 1: But yes, it is true. Let let Paul be our

665
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: Plato of Applebee's and you are Aristotle interpreting that, and

666
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: then we'll figure out who the Casey is. The Iggercasey

667
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: later is that you?

668
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: No, I figured out the perfect Applebee's appetizer, you guys,

669
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: because it speaks so loudly to app two Applebee's for

670
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: me it breadsticks with Alfredo sauce.

671
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: I saw that sounds disgusting.

672
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: What it's perfect?

673
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: I think we're just not high. That's probably a speak

674
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 3: for yourself.

675
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: But right, so it is true though from time to time,

676
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: and this is the crazy tantalizing for some people, irritating

677
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: for other people. Thing about the search for Atlantas and

678
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: places like this. Every so often archaeologists and historians do

679
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: find stuff. They find hard evidence of things, right, Yeah.

680
00:41:54,239 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 4: Things like a swampy prehistoric city in coastal Spain, suspicious

681
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 4: undersee rock formation in the Bahamas. That's the one all

682
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 4: might be sources for a potential genesis of the Atlantis story.

683
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: Of these, the site with the widest acceptance is the

684
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 4: Greek island of Santorini. Santorini Sanerini, ancient Therah, that's what

685
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 4: it was called back in the day, a half submerged

686
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 4: remnant of a volcano known as a caldera, created by

687
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 4: the massive second millennium BC volcanic eruption, which created a

688
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 4: tsunami that could have really, you know, hastened the collapse

689
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 4: of the Minoan civilization.

690
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 3: On crete, crete, crete, get it a crete. That horrible

691
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 3: joke paid off.

692
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: It went all the way after the from before the

693
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: commercial break or metastasized, depending on whether you think that

694
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: was chuckleworthy or cancerous.

695
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: Oh all right, well here we are.

696
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 2: It's like a good spin artichoke.

697
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 3: Man, there there is.

698
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you're absolutely right, You're absolutely right, because people

699
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: do continue to find things. There's another real life place

700
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: that has a lot in common with the Atlantis myth

701
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: and geographically could be something that people in Plato's time

702
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: would have been aware of, and that is a coastal

703
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: city called Helike or Helique, which is located on the

704
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: Gulf of Corinth in Greece. So it was and it's

705
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 1: heyday the center of the Acaan League, and the Acaan

706
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: League was a confederacy of sorts of twelve different cities.

707
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 1: By the time Plato was coming up in the Game

708
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: of Philosophy, this city was already hundreds of years old.

709
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: Like Atlantis, it was wealthy, like Atlantis, it controlled the

710
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: seas around it, and like Atlantis, it had established colonies

711
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: and other nearby areas. Like Italy, the residents, like those

712
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: of mythic Atlantis, also worshiped Poseidon. For five days December three,

713
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: seventy three BCE, witnesses in the area of this city

714
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: noticed that vermin and other small animals snakes and sex

715
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: mice and so on, were leaving the coast and they

716
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 1: were going to the mountains that formed the southern border

717
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: of the Hilike Delta.

718
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 3: And we all know what adult is.

719
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: Modern seismologists have also noted that some animals do appear

720
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: to have a preternatural sense, a little bit of predictive

721
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: ability when it comes to imminent earthquakes.

722
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: Some of that low level, low rumble no it's not rumble,

723
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: but the movement that it is occurring vibrations. Yeah, that

724
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: are so of such a low frequency, but it just

725
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: can be sensed.

726
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: And oddly enough, you know, we did look in this

727
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,479
Speaker 1: into this a little bit in earlier episodes, but oddly enough,

728
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: we see tremendous anecdotal evidence that some animals can predict

729
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: the weather. Matt, you had the most or predict those disasters, Matt,

730
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: you had the most salient argument there with the idea

731
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: that they're very attuned to vibrations that maybe people ignore, right,

732
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: or maybe they can also sense barometric changes.

733
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: Barometric is where I'm interested. Yeah, I want to study that.

734
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to. I've always wanted to get some

735
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: more some more research on people who can predict the

736
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: weather due to an injury flaring up. Yeah, there's also

737
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: probably a pressure change joints. Yeah, yeah, I always thought

738
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: that was a super I still do. If someone if

739
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: someone who has kind of a messed up leg tells

740
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: me that a storm's coming, I believe them.

741
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 3: I'm going inside, you know what I mean.

742
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm waiting outside for the first bolt to hopefully

743
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: strike true.

744
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 3: That's very regular of you, trust. But verify. I gotcha.

745
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: I was just talking about hoping to get struck by lightning.

746
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'll just keep going.

747
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: Oh man, I just want to know. I just want

748
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: to see if you'll get powers. Yeah, I mean, I

749
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: think surviving a lightning strike is a superpower as well.

750
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: You know, multi their people have been struck by lightning

751
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: multiple times.

752
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: I told you guys before about Coach Trit from from

753
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: my middle school, Travis Chidwell Well middle school science teacher.

754
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 2: Coach Trit struck by lightning at least twice.

755
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, really, yeah, at least twice.

756
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 2: I know. I remember one of them was playing cards

757
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: in his uh in his dining room, lightning bolt came

758
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: right down through the chandelier and got.

759
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,479
Speaker 3: Him because gambling is a sin.

760
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: And maybe that was it.

761
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: Coach Tritt was the second time he was asking.

762
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: That was the second time, I think the first time

763
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 2: was out on the field for something.

764
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: And was he being a plato about this? Was he

765
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: relaying a story without first hand proof?

766
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 2: No, this is him, Coach trip struck by light And

767
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 2: he was like, I got hit twice and I'm still here.

768
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 3: Did you believe them?

769
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 2: I did well? I I mean I was a middle

770
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: school er.

771
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 3: Do you have any like powder esque powers?

772
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't notice any, but he certainly was

773
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 2: no good at science.

774
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: No, I am, I'm not.

775
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: I thought the story Powder is interesting, but due to

776
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: us some intense problems I have with the director, I

777
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: can't recommend the film.

778
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that guy got big time camp.

779
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: Wait wait, who should be? Who directed it?

780
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 4: I forget his name, but he was found to have

781
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 4: been participating in a lot of molestation.

782
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: I believe Victor Salva also the creative mind behind.

783
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 3: Jeepers Creepers, oh Man.

784
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: Yep, and as the convicted known child abuser, but studios

785
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: kept working with he kept uh yeah, he actually kept

786
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: going after being convicted in nineteen eighty eight for the

787
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: abuse of children.

788
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: And then made Powder and then I watched it and

789
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: I loved it, and I watched it again and again.

790
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: And then made Jeepers Creepers, which, to be fair, I mean,

791
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: to be fair, it's pretty.

792
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: Solid little horror horror flic.

793
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a It's set a record for the largest

794
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: Labor day box office opening ever.

795
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: Wow. So so anyway, where's that flood when you need it?

796
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

797
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: There we go, There we go. Where's Poseidon in all

798
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: of this? And when he needs to flood the studio? Well,

799
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: let's go back to Let's go back to this area, because,

800
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: so we said three seventy three BCE, the small animals

801
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: are starting to leave the coast. And we have to

802
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: also remember that again, people of this age were just

803
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: as smart as people are today, and just as many problems,

804
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: just as many good points to themselves as a community

805
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: and as individuals. But they were also much more in

806
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: tune with the natural world around them, you know what

807
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: I mean, So they would have recognized that animals were leaving.

808
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: In the middle of the night. On that fifth day,

809
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: a huge earthquake struck the area. And then what happens

810
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: when there are earthquakes around the ocean, a tsunami came

811
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: from the Gulf of Corinth. In just a matter of minutes.

812
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: According to the accounts, the city of Helika was overcome

813
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: by the sea and it sank, just the way that

814
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: Plato described Atlantis. It happened very quickly.

815
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: Do you see what I mean, nool, He explains everything,

816
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: it seems to.

817
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: So why let's look, let's look a little bit at

818
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: the you know, the geography, and then let's also, I

819
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: don't know, I think we let's call this part of

820
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: the argument multiple Atlantis is atlantasies.

821
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 4: So you've got the Gulf of Corinth that has several

822
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 4: factors that make it particularly prone to these types of disasters.

823
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 4: It is a hotbed of tectonic plate activity. Humans were

824
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 4: big fans of living there, and the three rivers that

825
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 4: formed the delta also bring lots of silt deposits.

826
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: To cover things up. Right, once something goes down gets

827
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 2: covered over pretty easily, that's right.

828
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 4: And the research you discovered ancient helike after twelve years

829
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 4: of digging also found that this ravage of nature happened

830
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 4: more than one time. The attractiveness of the area and

831
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 4: its attendant destructiveness formed a cycle where humans established a

832
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 4: city and then nature said no, thank you, removed it.

833
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 4: And then after enough time had passed, people forgot what

834
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 4: the problem was, what went so terribly wrong, and they

835
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 4: built another city on top of the old one.

836
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 3: Yep. And they may not have even known the old

837
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 3: one was there. They may have just said, this.

838
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: Soil is great, Look how well everything grows. It's so abundant.

839
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 3: Why has no one built a city here? Because I

840
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 3: have an idea.

841
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 2: My gosh, I'm also gonna postulate that maybe they did. Remember,

842
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: they just went, We're gonna build it better.

843
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: This time, Yes, this time will instead of huts of straw,

844
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: will build huts of wood, and then huts of brick,

845
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: and we'll see if this big bad wolf is real.

846
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 4: And like Coach Tritt before his second lightning, you know,

847
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 4: they're like, well, you know, lightning doesn't.

848
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: Strike twice exactly until it does. That's a different god,

849
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: that's Zeus. And they're like, we're Poseidon folk. So archaeologists,

850
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: like like we had mentioned before who discovered Elite. As

851
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: they continued their investigation, they found evidence of more lost

852
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: cities in the ground. Underneath that delta silt, they found

853
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: cities from the Byzantine period that ended in the fifteenth

854
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: century CE or AD. And then under that literally under that,

855
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: they found a ruined Roman city from between the second

856
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: and fourth centuries. And then under that that's where they

857
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 1: found Alice, which was destroyed as we said in three

858
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: seven three BCE. But what they weren't expecting.

859
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: Here is where it gets crazy. I just want to

860
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 2: set that up. Continue please.

861
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they found an earlier ruined city from the

862
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: Bronze Age. Now we're getting to the age where we

863
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: have to kind of approximate things. They said, this one

864
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: was from around twenty six hundred to twenty three hundred BCE.

865
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: And then yes, they found evidence of human civilization or

866
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 2: some kind of habitation that went even further back than that.

867
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 2: We're talking Neolithic period. And you know, if you're estimating,

868
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 2: which again, as Ben said, you have to, it would

869
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:14,439
Speaker 2: go back to twelve thousand years ago. How crazy is that?

870
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: We you know, we set up the scenario kind of

871
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: jokingly that that people would build a city here, then

872
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 2: it would collapse, we would forget as humans, so then

873
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: build again. But that is precisely what has has been

874
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 2: happening there for thousands of years.

875
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: All in all, there are six distinct that like, six

876
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: distinct communities have all been discovered at this same spot.

877
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: And they all rose, and they all fell, and they

878
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 3: all got buried by the rivers.

879
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: And this is the kind of stuff that makes a legend, right,

880
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: And this is where we this is where we leave

881
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: the episode today. Is it possible that Atlantis is a

882
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: mixture of the mistranslations? I mean quite probably, And the

883
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: story's not over the search for the city continues. There's

884
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: a guy who thinks he's found the lost city in

885
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: Spain a few years back, about sixty miles in inland

886
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 1: away from the coast. And then, of course, most recently

887
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, a tech company called Merlin Burrows when

888
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 1: public and said they may have found the lost city

889
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: of Atlantis, and they think it's off the coast of

890
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 1: Spain near the Donana National Park. They argue that they've

891
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: found the remains of temples and towers, that they date

892
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: the material between ten and twelve thousand years old, and

893
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: they have some computer representations you can see about this.

894
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 2: It looks interesting, almost looks Indonesian to me something, at

895
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: least the rever presentations that they've placed online.

896
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: Right right, And they call themselves a land and seat

897
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 1: Merlin Boroughs that has calls itself a land and sea

898
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: search company specializing in finding forgotten or hidden things. But

899
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: if you read their press releases, they're also quick to

900
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: point out they have a documentary on the horizon called Atlantica,

901
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: which will put all the questions to rest.

902
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:30,399
Speaker 2: Yay, yeah, maybe maybe maybe they've actually figured it out.

903
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: Maybe they have, maybe they have time will tell so

904
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: Brian Dunning, who created the Skeptoid podcast, describes Atlantis. He says,

905
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: the myth of Atlantis is in the simplest terms and

906
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: Elvis sighting, and so he's looking at it more of

907
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: a pop culture thing. And he says, you know, he

908
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: talks about how people kept trying to keep Elvis alive.

909
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: And he says similarly, over the course of the two thousand,

910
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: in almost five hundred years since Plato wrote about Atlantis,

911
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 1: and countless people have tried to match his fiction to

912
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: some actual island or geographical structure. We already know the

913
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: efforts from vain because he says Atlantis was never anything

914
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: but an allegorical device used briefly by a philosopher who

915
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: made stuff like this up all the time. And this

916
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: is as established a fact as is the death of

917
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, because we know that Plato did work with

918
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 1: allegory a lot.

919
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 2: So this is what I want to put to you guys. Yeah, okay,

920
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna have to organize it in my head

921
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 2: quickly here before I go and three two, Okay, we're there.

922
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 2: Do you guys think that it is possible at all

923
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: that there was some kind of advanced civilization that existed

924
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 2: at one point on the Earth, even if it was

925
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 2: just very small. Let's just say, if we're gonna thought experiment,

926
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 2: a base or a landing zone come paired to or

927
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 2: similar to the way we visited the Moon the first

928
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 2: time during the Apollo missions, where we landed, we're just

929
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: in one area. It just kind of But in this

930
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 2: case it's extraterrestrials of some form. They're highly advanced. They

931
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 2: land on Earth just for a little bit to do

932
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 2: some exploration. Do you think there's a site or there's

933
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 2: a possibility that there is a site somewhere on this

934
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: Earth where that occurred.

935
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 3: Well, that's the tricky thing.

936
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: There's a lot you have to unpack an order to

937
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 2: get there.

938
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: I would want clarification on what we mean by advance.

939
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: I would say as far as an extra terrestrial site,

940
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: it's tough because Earth is a living thing, and it's

941
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: a voracious living thing.

942
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 3: It eats evidence, you know.

943
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: One of the first arguments against that would be that

944
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: we don't see evidence of that in the fossil record

945
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: or historical record. One of the arguments for it would

946
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: be people saying we do. We just don't recognize what

947
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: we've found, right, like. So, to answer the question in

948
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: short form, I believe it is absolutely possible, depending on

949
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: how we want to define advance to believe it is

950
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: absolutely possible that earlier undiscovered civilizations were round. I think

951
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: it's absolutely possible that humanity in terms of socio political

952
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: entity or civilization has earlier iterations that we just haven't

953
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: found because it's hard to find things and it's very

954
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: easy to.

955
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: Lose them, you know.

956
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: But as far as extraterrestrials, I don't know if I'm

957
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: willing to go that far. I just think it's I

958
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: think it's an It takes a tremendous amount of hubrist

959
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: for us to say we know for sure every lost civilization.

960
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 4: But I mean Rome was an advanced civilization, you know,

961
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 4: compared comparatively for the time, you know, and we found

962
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 4: all of that. I mean, I figure, for let's a

963
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,919
Speaker 4: big enough footprint to have made an impact, we would

964
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 4: find something.

965
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 3: Right footprint versus time, right, right.

966
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got one more, one more thing to ask

967
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: you guys. What if Atlantis was rather than an extraterrestrial civilization,

968
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 2: it was like a sub terrestrial subterranean uh Like, Okay,

969
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: let's just say some other intelligent force that emerged from

970
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: the sea that came up and existed in some kind

971
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: of way in a vehicle for a long period of time,

972
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 2: or were they base and then it eventually just went

973
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: back down into the ocean.

974
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 3: Like Eldritch forces of some sort, maybe Eldridge.

975
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 2: Maybe you know something, some intelligence that had been on

976
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 2: this planet far before you know, the evolution of our species.

977
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 4: Hmm, I don't know, Matt. It's an interesting question. It's

978
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 4: an interesting thought experiment.

979
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 2: That's what I'm trying to do with you, guys.

980
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: We don't know a whole lot about the subterranean depths. Really.

981
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: A few years back, god, several years back now, there

982
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: was an expedition that we applied to that said they

983
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: were going to go to Antarctica to try to discover

984
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: the entrance to this huge cavern system that they believed existed.

985
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: People who will argue for the quote unquote kind of

986
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: hollow earth theory will typically more science based arguments will

987
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: say not that the entirety of the Earth is hollow,

988
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: but that there are vast caverns and systems that could

989
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: house thriving ecosystems. Right, so I could see that, I

990
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: would say also to illustrate how little we know about

991
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: the world before us. Remember when we did the episode

992
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: on the early mixtapes of Man right, Theofluens, Yeah and

993
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: Denisovan's and Neanderthal. This year there was a new species

994
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: of ancient human discovered no way, Yeah, Yes, waited in

995
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: the Philippines. Homo luzoninsis okay.

996
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 3: And it is.

997
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: It's a small body hominin, similar to the Homo florensis

998
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: and lived at least fifty thousand and sixty seven thousand

999
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 1: years ago. Also turns out Homo erectus persisted in Java

1000
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: as recently as one hundred thousand years ago, tangentially related.

1001
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: The main reasons I bring it up here because A

1002
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: it's really fascinating, and B I think it is a

1003
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: fantastic illustration of how little we know about again, the

1004
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: civilizations that preceded our own, or the people in the

1005
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: world's you know, incredible.

1006
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 3: Incredibly weird.

1007
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: You have to wonder how long it's going to take

1008
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: our civilization to disappear.

1009
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 6: I don't know what, well, from now, five years, thirty years,

1010
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 6: give me a break, I mean, I'll you know, one

1011
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 6: thing we can say for sure is that on the

1012
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 6: timeline of history, of all history of the universe.

1013
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 4: We are but a spec and may not be quite

1014
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 4: as important as we think.

1015
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 3: So let's hold on to all.

1016
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:27,439
Speaker 1: We got it, guys, and that's our classic episode for

1017
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: this evening.

1018
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear your thoughts. That's right, let

1019
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 3: us know what you think.

1020
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: You can reach.

1021
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 3: You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist.

1022
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,000
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1023
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 4: Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1024
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,320
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1025
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:46,560
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1026
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:48,800
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1027
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:50,920
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1028
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:52,800
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1029
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,640
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1030
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,439
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1031
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,080
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1032
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:27,080
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1033
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,280
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1034
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,919
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1035
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:37,240
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