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Speaker 1: Over the course of nineteen ninety four and ninety five,

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Speaker 1: Dusty Turner and Billy Joe Brown trained together to become

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Speaker 1: Navy seals.

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Speaker 2: I know this guy because I've been training with for

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Speaker 2: a year and a half, from islands into Pacific to

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Speaker 2: jumping out of planes and throwing hand grenades over each

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Speaker 2: other's backs and diving in pitch black waters in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the oceans. And one of the things that

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Speaker 2: beats into my unconsciousness is, no matter what, I have

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Speaker 2: to protect this guy. I don't even have a choice

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Speaker 2: to protect him. I have to protect him.

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Speaker 1: But that training left Dusty ill prepared for partying off

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Speaker 1: base with Billy. On June nineteenth, nineteen ninety five, Dusty

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Speaker 1: met twenty one year old mid student Jennifer Evans on

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Speaker 1: the dance floor while Billy, who had alcohol related anchor issues,

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Speaker 1: had a night that devolved into rage. After spoiling his

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Speaker 1: ride home, Billy tried to squeeze into Dusty's car behind Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: and after she didn't respond well to his belligerence, Billy

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Speaker 1: attacked and killed Jennifer right next to Dusty, But in

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Speaker 1: the intense moments following her death, he protected Billy.

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Speaker 2: That was absolutely brainwashed to protect this psychopath. I know

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Speaker 2: what I would do now, It's easy be hindsight. I

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Speaker 2: could have jumped out the car or took off running somewhere.

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Speaker 2: I could have drove someone different. I could have done

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Speaker 2: something different right.

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Speaker 1: But eventually Dusty turned Billy in and with the death

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Speaker 1: penalty looming, Billy then flipped the tables.

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Speaker 2: My name was Dustin Turner and I was incarcerated for

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Speaker 2: thirty years and seven months. To be specific, that's eleven

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Speaker 2: two hundred and eight days.

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Speaker 1: From Lava for Good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie

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Speaker 1: Freeling today, Dusty Turner.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in Bloomington, Indiana, and I have three

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Speaker 2: brothers and a sister. And my mother was a elementary

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Speaker 2: school teacher and my stepfather, who I really grew up with,

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Speaker 2: was an insurance salesman. I suppose I had a very

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Speaker 2: typical Midwestern Indiana who's your upbringing? I played sports all

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Speaker 2: my life as a kid. You know, we were rough

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Speaker 2: and tumble and we would run around playing all those games.

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Speaker 2: And my family was very outdoorsy. We gardened and we

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Speaker 2: hunted for mushrooms and for simmons, and my family members

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Speaker 2: were hunters, and a lot of my family were veterans

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Speaker 2: or they were in the military, and so I think

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Speaker 2: my upbringing was colored by that experience. It was just

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Speaker 2: built into fabric of my family going back really quite

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Speaker 2: a few generations.

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Speaker 1: And Dusty also grew up with a love for the water.

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Speaker 2: So I was swimming from before I was conscious. I

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Speaker 2: guess my mother had me in the pool, probably why

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Speaker 2: I was still in diapers. I was a swimmer and

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Speaker 2: I was always interested in water sports. And when I'll

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Speaker 2: share this with you, when I was very young, I

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Speaker 2: found a book and there was a photo in the

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Speaker 2: book that intrigued me, and it was a sunken ship

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Speaker 2: with a treasure chest and it might have been a

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Speaker 2: pirate or something, and he had a knife between his

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Speaker 2: teeth and he was diving free diving down to the

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Speaker 2: sunken chest. And I just thought this guy was the

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Speaker 2: ultimate badass of the water. And I think somehow that

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Speaker 2: really influenced my getting into scuba diving.

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Speaker 1: So around what age were you solidified like I am enlisting,

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Speaker 1: And I guess even though my partner was in the army,

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Speaker 1: he still tries to explain like enlisting and then joining

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Speaker 1: Special Forces. So this might be when did you decide

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Speaker 1: to enlist and then become a seal?

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Speaker 2: A good question. I did enlist when I was still seventeen,

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Speaker 2: still in high school. My mother had to sign for

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Speaker 2: me because I was under eighteen. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: speak for her. She may have been a little apprehensive,

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Speaker 2: but she knew that's what I wanted to do, and

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Speaker 2: she signed the necessary papers and allowed me to join

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Speaker 2: under the delayed entry program. Before I was eighteen, I

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Speaker 2: was into a lot of sports and growing up through

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Speaker 2: high school and especially towards the end of high school,

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Speaker 2: I was a competitive state swimmer in Indiana and I

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Speaker 2: had an offer for a scholarship, but I chose the military.

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Speaker 2: I actually initially wanted to be a diver, a scuba

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Speaker 2: diver for the Navy, and then later on I heard

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Speaker 2: more about the seal teams. I wanted to be in

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Speaker 2: the seal teams, but I didn't know how to get

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Speaker 2: myself there. So when I was in boot camp, and

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Speaker 2: that was in Orlando, Florida, I had an option need

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Speaker 2: to take the physical test to become a diver, but

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Speaker 2: I actually snuck into another line. That was the guys

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Speaker 2: that were wanting to be in the seal teams. I

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Speaker 2: was one of just a few people that passed it.

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Speaker 2: And the seal that was there taking in the scores,

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Speaker 2: he looked through his clipboard and he said, wait, you

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Speaker 2: took the wrong test. You were supposed to take the

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Speaker 2: other one. And I said, I know, However, I'm desirous

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Speaker 2: of being a seal, and he said, I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure you get to the training

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Speaker 2: and he saw the fort two that I had and

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Speaker 2: desire I had. So that's how I got into seal

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Speaker 2: training out in San Diego and Corneatto Island.

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Speaker 1: And it was during seal training that he was paired

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Speaker 1: with the actual perpetrator of the murdering question, Billy Joe Brown.

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Speaker 2: Early in training, they pair people up in boat crews

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Speaker 2: by your height, and so we were the exact same height,

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Speaker 2: and at some point we were literally paired up as

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Speaker 2: with a call the swim Buddies training partners. And this

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Speaker 2: was prior to even prior to Hell Week. So over

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Speaker 2: a year and a half of the most excruciating military

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Speaker 2: training perhaps in the world, we're bonded through that fire.

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Speaker 2: We were trained to or at least in my mind

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Speaker 2: to be prepared to give our lives in the defense

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Speaker 2: of this nation. And I was okay with that. I

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Speaker 2: was prepared for that. And I have to say there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of mental manipulation. Yes, if you want to

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Speaker 2: call it brainwashing or whatever. I was nineteen years old.

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Speaker 2: They totally shaped my mind when it came to these

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Speaker 2: ideas of brotherhood and the culture of military and special

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Speaker 2: forces and maybe specifically in the seal teams.

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Speaker 1: Which may go a long way in explaining Dusty's behavior

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Speaker 1: in the aftermath of what bill Is eventually did two

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Evans. But before that, despite Billy Joe Brown not

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Speaker 1: going as far as murdering someone, there was definitely a

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Speaker 1: history of violence.

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Speaker 2: Two times previous I saw his attempt of violence or

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Speaker 2: aggression I should say, towards women. And once was in

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Speaker 2: Puerto Rico, and thankfully there was multiple people around to

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Speaker 2: restrain him. Another time it was just me and I

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Speaker 2: was able to restrain him. But yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 2: I've seen that aggressive behavior of him often having to

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Speaker 2: ensure that he gets out of trouble. Right, this is

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Speaker 2: only going on when he's drunk and when he's sober.

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Speaker 2: It was never like this right. When he's drinking, he's

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Speaker 2: like a ticking time bomb. And so there was multiple

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Speaker 2: times in which I had to extract him from situations

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Speaker 2: at a concert. At one time he attacked a guy

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Speaker 2: and really messed him up, and I had to jump

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Speaker 2: in and pull him out. And it ended with later

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Speaker 2: in the night, we were fleeing from the police. I

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Speaker 2: haven't told many people this, but we ended up in

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Speaker 2: a pond, literally underwater.

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Speaker 1: Now, for our audience, I urge you to count yourself

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Speaker 1: lucky if you've never had to be the caretaker of

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Speaker 1: this kind of friend. Some folks are not that lucky.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, Dusty had not yet cut ties with Billy

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Speaker 1: Joe Brown, and at this time, well completing their training

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Speaker 1: in Virginia, Billy Joe Brown was drinking a lot as

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Speaker 1: he was on June nineteenth, nineteen ninety five, when a

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Speaker 1: few Seal trainees were set to head out to party

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Speaker 1: in Virginia Beach.

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Speaker 2: There was originally I think three of us that were

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Speaker 2: supposed to be there that night, and it ended up

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Speaker 2: it was just Billy Brown and myself. Well. We went

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Speaker 2: to a club that we had been to.

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Speaker 1: It was called the Bayou Nightclub and as Dusty told

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Speaker 1: Jason in previous coverage which we'll link to in the

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Speaker 1: episode description, Dusty had separated himself from Billy that night,

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Speaker 1: and then he met twenty one year old med student

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Evans on the dance floor. She was on vacation

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Speaker 1: and her friends had moved on to another place. They

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Speaker 1: were planning to circle back at closing time, and Dusty

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Speaker 1: had also arranged with Billy's ex girlfriend to get him home. Allegedly,

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Speaker 1: the night progressed and Jennifer and Dusty went out to

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Speaker 1: the parking lot to wait for her friends. When Billy

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Speaker 1: stumbled over to the car, Dusty morange, Jennifer, just don't

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Speaker 1: engage with Billy if he's belligerent or obnoxious, and then

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Speaker 1: he gets into the backseat behind her.

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Speaker 2: I saw that he was in the mode which I've

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Speaker 2: seen before with him, that he could become violent, and

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Speaker 2: so I was doing everything I could. And really, I

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Speaker 2: say that I won't say everything I could, because in

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Speaker 2: hindsight there's other things I could have done, But at

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Speaker 2: the moment, I thought by speaking to him calmly and

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Speaker 2: trying to get him to relax, and hey, look, let's

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Speaker 2: just find Kristen his friend who was supposed to take

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Speaker 2: him home. Let's just find her, she can take you home.

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Speaker 2: But he was completely belligerent, completely belligerent.

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Speaker 1: Apparently Billy had done something to cause his ax to leave,

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Speaker 1: So while Dusty tried to de escalate, Billy allegedly said

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Speaker 1: some nasty things and touched Jennifer's hair. Allegedly, she brushed

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Speaker 1: him off, and then Billy lashed out.

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Speaker 2: His initial maneuver was explosive enough to literally shake the

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Speaker 2: whole vehicle, and I wasn't looking directly at him. It

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Speaker 2: took me a second to realize what has just happened.

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Speaker 2: Her head was twisted towards the car window, and he

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Speaker 2: had his own arms locked around her. I started grabbing

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Speaker 2: his arms and screaming at him, and Jennifer was completely limb.

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Speaker 2: It was that quick. So I just immediately grabbed his

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Speaker 2: arms and trying to pull him off of her, and

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Speaker 2: at first I couldn't, but he was screaming at me,

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Speaker 2: just fucking dry and screaming at me, and I was

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Speaker 2: screaming at him to just let her go. And I

187
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Speaker 2: literally had to put my fingers under his fingertips and

188
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Speaker 2: pry his first hand from his arm as he was

189
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Speaker 2: locked and pry his arms off of her. And then

190
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Speaker 2: when I get his arms off of her, he's still

191
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Speaker 2: screaming at me. Now he's up in my ear, just dry,

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Speaker 2: just from here, and Jennifer's limbs, she's gone, She's completely gone,

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Speaker 2: and she's slumped into his seat. I know this guy

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Speaker 2: sitting behind me because I've been training with him a

195
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Speaker 2: year and a half through all this stuff, from islands

196
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Speaker 2: into Pacific to jumping out of planes and throwing hand

197
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Speaker 2: grenades over each other's backs and diving in pitch black

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Speaker 2: waters in the middle of the oceans. And the only

199
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Speaker 2: thing I know for a fact that is beat into

200
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Speaker 2: my unconsciousness is this man. No matter what, I have

201
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Speaker 2: to protect I don't even have a choice to protect him.

202
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Speaker 2: I have to protect him. That's what colored my decisions

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Speaker 2: that I made at that point. I was absolutely brainwashed

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Speaker 2: to protect this psychopath. I shouldn't have been in that position.

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Speaker 2: He should never have been in that position. He should

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Speaker 2: have never been in the military, let alone in the

207
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Speaker 2: special forces community never. But ultimately, regardless of all, it's

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Speaker 2: still my decision. I could have jumped out the car,

209
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Speaker 2: took off, run in somewhere. I could have drove someone different.

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Speaker 2: I could have done something different right at that point, but.

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Speaker 1: He didn't, and that decision became a key point of scrutiny.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know Virginia Beach areat. I literally didn't know

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Speaker 2: where to turn when I left the parking lot. In fact,

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Speaker 2: he was yelling directions at me, turn left, turned right.

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Speaker 1: Dusty drove them onto Interstate sixty four, and then they

216
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Speaker 1: exited near a wooded area by Newport News, where they

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Speaker 1: left Jennifer's body about thirty yards into the woods. Over

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Speaker 1: the next week, Dusty says, guilt weighed heavily on him.

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Speaker 1: Then detectives caught up with them. Both seals initially denied involvement,

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Speaker 1: but after speaking with his commanding officer, Dusty decided to confess,

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Speaker 1: leading authorities to the body and to Billie Brown. Facing

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Speaker 1: the death penalty, Brown seemingly created a story implicating Dusty

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Speaker 1: in the murder. Yours leader, Dusty, says Brown explained why

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Speaker 1: he believed that decision was justified.

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Speaker 2: He said he thought I was going to do two

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Speaker 2: weeks in jail before the authorities realized the truth of

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Speaker 2: what happened, and instead, the authorities used his false stories

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Speaker 2: to convict me of his crimes. How do you even

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Speaker 2: wrap your head around them? But all he had to

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Speaker 2: do is come clean. See, he knew, he knew that

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Speaker 2: there was this code, and he called it the Seal

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Speaker 2: Team code, that I couldn't tell the authorities what he

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Speaker 2: had done.

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Speaker 1: He said that to.

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Speaker 2: You years later, he said, that's the whole reason he

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Speaker 2: made up the story to implicate me is because I

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Speaker 2: broke the Seal Code, and therefore I deserved to be

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Speaker 2: unjustly put in prison because I broke the Sealk Code

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Speaker 2: by telling the authorities of what had happened. That's it.

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Speaker 2: If he would have told the truth from the beginning,

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Speaker 2: i'd obviously never been convicted of these crimes.

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Speaker 1: Meaning the ones he says he didn't do. First degree

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Speaker 1: murder and abduction. Billy Brown received seventy two years, while

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Speaker 1: Dusty got eighty two and then even more insult to injury.

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Speaker 2: From what I understand, the authorities within the military had

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Speaker 2: told guys that I had been around that they are

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Speaker 2: to have no contact with me or my family. That's difficult,

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Speaker 2: to be honest. There's a lot of things that I

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Speaker 2: still have a hard time with concerning the military and

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Speaker 2: the way I was treated it was wrong. And I

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Speaker 2: will say I've heard from a couple of the former

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Speaker 2: Silting guys, which is nice and I really appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: But there had been a kind of a hand washing

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Speaker 2: of both myself and Billy Brown, as if we were

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Speaker 2: the same people, as if we were in Caho says,

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Speaker 2: if we deserved the same fate. But beyond that, I'm

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Speaker 2: past it.

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Speaker 1: And perhaps Dusty had help. In two thousand and two,

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Speaker 1: Billy Brown found religion and made a confession that Dusty

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Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the murder and corroborated what

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Speaker 1: Dusty maintained all along, that he protected his training partner,

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Speaker 1: whom he says he should have immediately exposed for his crime.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of ironic. That's a stale team

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Speaker 2: investigator for the military. He is a very strong advocate

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Speaker 2: for me for years. He's a strong advocate because again

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Speaker 2: he investigated my case, but he didn't do it for

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Speaker 2: the civilian side. He did it for the military. His

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Speaker 2: reports were destined only for the military leaders. But what

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Speaker 2: he found was basically the same thing that now everyone knows, right,

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Speaker 2: and that is I had no role in the murder.

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Speaker 2: I had no role in abducting Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: Dusty's legal team filed a writ of actual innocence, citing

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Speaker 1: the confession as new evidence, and his conviction was overturned

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, but the Attorney General appealed

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Speaker 1: and his murder and abduction convictions were reinstated and he

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Speaker 1: served sixteen more years. How did you survive thirty years

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Speaker 1: in prison?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 1: I guess there's a lot to this. I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: convicted of a crime you did not commit, and even

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Speaker 1: the thing that you did do is only punishable by

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Speaker 1: up to twelve months in prison, So that is completely unjust.

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Speaker 1: How do you survive prison in a place that you

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Speaker 1: know you shouldn't be? How did you do that?

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Speaker 2: I think it was, I guess, the same thing that

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Speaker 2: allowed me, I guess to survive steal training resolved of love,

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Speaker 2: and I have to say, maybe even hate, the love

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Speaker 2: of my family and supporters. That alone got me through

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Speaker 2: some very difficult times. I have a persistent, maybe we'll

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Speaker 2: just say hatred towards Billy Brown and if that's the

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Speaker 2: right word, but it's never subsided. And part of that

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Speaker 2: is obviously, first of all, what he did to Jennifer

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Speaker 2: in her family, and secondly what he did to me

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Speaker 2: and my family. He has written to my mother and

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Speaker 2: through my mother trying to asking or begging for me

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Speaker 2: to forgive him. And here it is thirty one years later,

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Speaker 2: almost and my hatred for him still burns deep in

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Speaker 2: my chest, and I can't look at all the at

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Speaker 2: my family, everything that we've been through and not feel

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Speaker 2: that hatred towards him.

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Speaker 1: I understand that you're one of the first people out

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Speaker 1: of how many wrongfully convicted people I've spoken to, that

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Speaker 1: has not forgiven. And I think you're the first person

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Speaker 1: that I relate to because I can't imagine forgiving somebody

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Speaker 1: who did that to me.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes I think maybe it's maybe I'm failing there,

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Speaker 2: but that I should forgive. And I've even wrote an

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Speaker 2: essay on forgiveness. It may even be posted on my

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Speaker 2: website because I was exploring it. And one of the

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Speaker 2: things I think it's in my little essay that I

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Speaker 2: had a chaplain come to me and he said, just

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Speaker 2: completely assuming because he knew me. I had a lot

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Speaker 2: of interactions with him, and he's like, well, you're a

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Speaker 2: smart guy. You know that forgiveness is not about him.

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Speaker 2: It's about you, and he just assumed that I had

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Speaker 2: forgiven him, and because I'm not so stupid to not

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Speaker 2: forgive him, because what that suggests is it's just putting

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Speaker 2: more upon myself, you know. But I don't forgive him.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like that that anger and that burning hatred,

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Speaker 2: that really maybe in some ways it helped me get

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Speaker 2: through some of the more difficult times of my prison senters.

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Speaker 1: I one relate to that. I tell people, like, the

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Speaker 1: reason I can keep going is because I want vengeance

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Speaker 1: on people, and for me, it's the prosecutors that hurt

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Speaker 1: all of you guys. That's why I keep listening to

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Speaker 1: these stories.

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Speaker 2: You know, listenance. Vengeance is in our vernacular for a reason, right,

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Speaker 2: It's an ancient idea of just desserts. But regardless, obviously

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Speaker 2: I'm not seeking to exact some kind of vengeance myself.

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Speaker 2: But there needs to be accountability.

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Speaker 1: That's such a better word.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that goes beyond Billy Brown, because there's others

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Speaker 2: who knew that I had no role in those crimes,

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Speaker 2: and they either loud or were actively involved in convicting

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Speaker 2: me or keeping me in prison.

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Speaker 1: A cellmate of yours once said, quote, you were a

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Speaker 1: little too talkative about plant life. I think this was

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Speaker 1: perhaps one of yours for parole.

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Speaker 2: I know who you're talking about too.

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Speaker 1: And so I want to ask you about that. How

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Speaker 1: did you get into horticulture?

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Speaker 2: You know, I grew up, like I said, I was

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Speaker 2: in a family that was very outdoorsy and we had

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Speaker 2: a decent family garden growing up, and so I learned

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Speaker 2: a lot from my stepfather about horticulture. Therefore, I thought

346
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Speaker 2: I knew quite a bit about horticulture. So I joined

347
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Speaker 2: a horticulture of course, and then I realized I don't

348
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Speaker 2: know anything about horticulture right. So, over the course of

349
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Speaker 2: a year and then I got through that program, I

350
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: took an advanced horticulture program. This was well in prison, yeah, absolutely,

351
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Speaker 2: Soon thereafter I was tutoring incarcerated students horticulture. But I

352
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 2: found it to be an opportunity not simply just to speak, Hey,

353
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Speaker 2: here's how you germinate seeds, and here's how you grow

354
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Speaker 2: a plant, and here's the names of these different species.

355
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Speaker 2: But there's a therapeutic element, especially for those in prison

356
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Speaker 2: who are surrounded by nothing but concrete and still there's

357
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Speaker 2: a therapeutic aspect to the idea of being able to

358
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Speaker 2: grow things or see growing things and living things. And

359
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Speaker 2: it was I got to say, relatively speaking, it was beautiful.

360
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Speaker 2: I'm in garden spaces that I helped create, and I'm

361
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Speaker 2: out there with all these students, and they come from

362
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Speaker 2: all all over Virginia, all walks of life. I had

363
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Speaker 2: a lot of inner city guys who are like, you know,

364
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Speaker 2: when I go home, I am creating a community guard

365
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Speaker 2: and I'm going to do it, and I know exactly

366
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Speaker 2: where I'm going to put it, and this is my goal.

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Speaker 1: Dusty's former sell me wrote a letter to the parole

368
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Speaker 1: board supporting his release, saying what a good person Dusty

369
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Speaker 1: is and his largest complaint about him is that he

370
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Speaker 1: talks about plants too much. In twenty twenty, a new

371
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Speaker 1: law was passed in Virginia and Dusty was released in

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Speaker 1: March of twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: I didn't invite all my family because first of all,

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Speaker 2: most of my family is in Indiana and in other states.

375
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Speaker 2: And I hope it didn't hurt some people's feelings. But

376
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Speaker 2: I didn't invite all my family. I have a very

377
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Speaker 2: large family. I can't invite everybody, right, but I did

378
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: have some of my family and some of those who

379
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Speaker 2: maybe I've been closest with throughout the years and they've

380
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: really been there for me. And then my advocates, right

381
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 2: those who have fought so hard for so much of

382
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: their time and energies and money and everything else. They

383
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: recognized the injustice and that drove them with a passion.

384
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Speaker 2: I absolute wouldn't be sitting here without them. They would

385
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Speaker 2: not have given me parole without my advocates fighting for me, period.

386
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Speaker 2: And so its beautiful to see everybody and to embrace everyone,

387
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: and it was emotional. It was overwhelming, and it still

388
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: is overwhelming. I do not have my feet on the ground.

389
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 2: I'm working on it. I wish you could be in

390
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: my shoes or last thirty hours or so, just to

391
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: experience what I'm in. Such an amazing place right now.

392
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 2: I'm in such an amazing place right now. I was

393
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Speaker 2: in a side by side vehicle a few hours ago

394
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Speaker 2: driving through just amazing countryside, the outskirts of a property.

395
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 2: I'm blown away. There's a river it just runs right

396
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: through here. And I'm unfortunate in that respect, so fortunate

397
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: and grateful, and I'm going to soak it all in.

398
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: How do you think your life would have been different.

399
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: Maybe if none of this happened and you stayed a

400
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Speaker 1: seal instead of becoming a horticulture mauster. I don't know

401
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: what to call it.

402
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 2: I'll say that, yeah, not there yet, but you know,

403
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. Listen, my plan was to do two

404
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: deployments and then apply try to get into what's now

405
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: referred to as Seal Team six. That's what I want.

406
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 2: I want to be the best operator for the military.

407
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 2: I loved it, and that's what I had a passion for.

408
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: But I have some friends that I trained with who

409
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Speaker 2: died not long after I was incarcerated.

410
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: You probably would have wound up in Iraq. Do you

411
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: think about that?

412
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: No, I don't think about it because who knows, right,

413
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Speaker 2: I don't have a clue what could have happened. I

414
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: also could have been dead, and who knows what could

415
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 2: have happened. And I don't think it really matters at

416
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: this point, right All that matters is now and moving forward.

417
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: I would I would drive myself nuts thinking about that.

418
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Speaker 1: What has surprised you the most? Maybe, like yesterday we

419
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: were talking and you were facetiming with me on a

420
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Speaker 1: cell phone. What are some of the things that so

421
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: far in your very short time, have really surprised you.

422
00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: Ohoul, have surprised me how big everything is? Thing is

423
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: it just looms large, everything from just the buildings and

424
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: the sky and the clouds, and everything just seems so big.

425
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 2: It's surreal. Through a good portion of this past day

426
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: and a half, I felt like I've not even been

427
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: inside my body, Like I'm just hovering and just watching.

428
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 2: And I got to say it again, I'm fortunate to

429
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: have all my people around me. I don't have to

430
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: worry about the things. I know so many people who

431
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 2: are getting out of prison I have to worry about.

432
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: And so I'm so fortunate for that right I have

433
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 2: those resources. Not many people do. And I recognize that.

434
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Speaker 2: So my family, my supporters have provided so many things

435
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: for me that I'm able to really just absorb things right.

436
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: And they've given me that opportunity to just really sit

437
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: back and absorb things, and they're taking me around. I

438
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: walked into my first small grocery store today. I walked

439
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: down the aisles and before I went in, I said,

440
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: I'm not going to I'm not touching nothing. I'm not

441
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: going to buy anything. Y'all can get what you want

442
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna look all right, and there's they had

443
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 2: already purchased so much stuff, and I got fruit baskets

444
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: and beef jerkeys and I don't know all kinds of stuff.

445
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: By the way, good advocate friend has brought some New

446
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: York strip We're going to be really amazing. Yeah, and

447
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: he's got some rabbis and they're doing I don't know,

448
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: they've got just the whole work. So we had a

449
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 2: beautiful feast last night, and tonight it's gonna be no less.

450
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: Were the flavors of like real food like surprising.

451
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: It's all everything I taste, everything I smell, everything I

452
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 2: see is so incredibly different that it's a lie. It's

453
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: like maybe four we'll say, a normal person to be

454
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: given like hyper stimulus, to be overwhelmed with hyper stimulus.

455
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: All my senses are overwhelmed.

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00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: Yesterday you mentioned the smells. That was one of the first.

457
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the first structure I walked into. I

458
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: was in the lobby of the hotel. But it's every

459
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 2: since everything I see and everything nice smell and taste

460
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: and touch and yeah, it's a lot. And I'm glad

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00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: that my close friends and loved ones are able to

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00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: be with me, to experience that with me, because it's

463
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: special for them too.

464
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: I know you've mentioned step by step, So what is

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00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: something you're looking forward to if you want to tell

466
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: me big picture, even like later today, what are you

467
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: looking forward to?

468
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: Well, I told you here very shortly. We're going to

469
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: have a bit of I guess a bonfire, small fire, campfire,

470
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: and I think someone even brought some s'mores. We're going

471
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: to be toting smores after the feast. I look forward

472
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: to settling in a little bit and I'm going to

473
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: be doing some real work out here on farm and

474
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: the property, and I look forward to contributing. I look

475
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: forward to learning. This is in some way in intermediate

476
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 2: or short term ideas. I look forward to continuing experience

477
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: the things I've been experiencing, because they've been great long term.

478
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: I'm not done fighting. I'm not exonerated, as you brought

479
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: up early on. If I'm not exonerating, I'm simply given parole.

480
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: That's not a just remedy in my case.

481
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: People know you're still a convicted felon.

482
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: Not just a convicted felon, but the abduction charge. Years

483
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: and years later, they determined that they made that into

484
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: what they call like a registering offense. Right. Oh wow, Yeah,

485
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: so that comes with a whole host of things, every

486
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: bit of it's horrible and it's unjust. I'll be fighting,

487
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: and I hope and I expect I'm going to have

488
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: some people on my team that care about justice and

489
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: they're going to help me out.

490
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: We're definitely on your team, so we will be here. Dusty.

491
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: One of my last questions for you is just it's

492
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: been over thirty years. You've been reported on in the

493
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: media multiple times, there have been documentaries. What do you

494
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: want people to know about you? Oh?

495
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: I would like for people to know that I'm just

496
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: a genuine guy. And maybe as they hear my experiences

497
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: and what led me to sitting right here speaking to

498
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: you the whole way, through my childhood, through my experiences

499
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: in the military, and the tragic events that led me

500
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: to be incarcerated and the horrible hell that I went through,

501
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: I guess I may now have a unique perspective online

502
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: and maybe that holds some value somewhere for someone, and

503
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: I hope it does.

504
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

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00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall and

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00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: Kathleen Fink, as well as executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler,

507
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: Kevin Wortis, and Jeff Clyburn. The music in this production

508
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

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00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us across all so media platforms

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00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can

511
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful

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00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for

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00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: Good podcast in association with Signal Company Number One. We

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00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in

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00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by

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00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: the individuals featured in this show are their own and

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00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good