Speaker 1: Welcome to Go, Ask Alli, a production of Shondaland Audio
Speaker 1: and partnership with iHeartRadio. I think, like Evort, Gina's have
Speaker 1: a lot to say. I think we should let them
Speaker 1: speak out of it and they'll just talk. Yes, one
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to absorb for those who are
Speaker 1: new to these kinds of fights.
Speaker 2: Again, if we want all of them, we wouldn't be here.
Speaker 2: If you see a monster, don't try to run away,
Speaker 2: step right up to it and say, what do you
Speaker 2: have to teach me?
Speaker 3: Why are you? In my mind, I want.
Speaker 1: To be the person who has cancer and doesn't run
Speaker 1: a marathon, Like, do I have to work that hard? No,
Speaker 1: it's the best excuse not to run a marathon. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Go, Ask Gali. I'm Ali Wentworth. You know, this
Speaker 1: is the last episode of season three and we're going
Speaker 1: out with a bang. I have Martha Beck, my spiritual guru,
Speaker 1: and my bestie Marishka harget Day and it is a
Speaker 1: love fest full of life lessons. You know. The thing
Speaker 1: I love about women, and particularly with my girlfriends, is
Speaker 1: how we take information and we hand it from one
Speaker 1: to another. We all rise up together. It's the greatest
Speaker 1: thing in the world to feed each other. And these
Speaker 1: girls are just chock full of little wise nuggets. So
Speaker 1: fasten your seatbelts. Martha Beck I'm sure you all know,
Speaker 1: is a New York Times best selling author, life coach,
Speaker 1: and speaker. She holds three Harvard degrees in social science.
Speaker 1: NPR and USA Today have called her the best known
Speaker 1: life coach in America Boom. Her published works include several
Speaker 1: big hits, Finding her Own North Star, The Joy Diet,
Speaker 1: and Expecting Adam, and Martha's newest book, The Way of
Speaker 1: Integrity Finding the Path to Your True Self was an
Speaker 1: instant New York Times bestseller and everybody should read it,
Speaker 1: And of course, marshco Hargate my bestie. She's an award
Speaker 1: winning actor, director, producer, and philanthropist. She's best known for
Speaker 1: playing course Detective Olivia Bent's on the NBC drama series
Speaker 1: Law and Order SVU since nineteen ninety nine. She's been
Speaker 1: doing this and also on Law and Order Organized Crime
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty one. Outside of acting, Marishka founded the
Speaker 1: Joyful Heart Foundation, which provides support to survivors of sexual
Speaker 1: assault and abuse, with their current primary initiative to end
Speaker 1: the backlog of rape kits in the US. One little
Speaker 1: thing you may not know about Marishka is she sets
Speaker 1: a beautiful table. So if you ever get invited over
Speaker 1: for lunch or dinner, take a picture. Okay, so I
Speaker 1: am so excited. There's no sweeps in podcasts, but if
Speaker 1: there were, this would be my sweeps episode. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: there are the two women who are my guests today
Speaker 1: are my inspiration, my best siet Marishka Hargate and my
Speaker 1: guru Martha Beck. Hello, Warriors of Life. I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: both of us.
Speaker 3: Thank you and Martha. I just have to say I
Speaker 3: am such a big fan that when I read your
Speaker 3: book The Way of Integrity, I probably sent it to
Speaker 3: twenty of my friends, Oh my gosh, and told everybody
Speaker 3: that I met that this was such a must read
Speaker 3: and for every age. I sent it to my god daughters,
Speaker 3: I sent it to my friends. I sent it to
Speaker 3: people that were older than I am.
Speaker 1: And if that's possible.
Speaker 3: It's it's well, it's I like to tell myself that
Speaker 3: that's what happened. Anyway, It's just an honor and a
Speaker 3: pleasure really and a dream to be able to speak
Speaker 3: with you in this forum. And I said to Ali,
Speaker 3: I think if my memory serves me, Ali was one
Speaker 3: of the people that I sent your book to. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: so I'm some way. I'm just I feel like I
Speaker 3: have a little bit of a part of this journey
Speaker 3: that we're all on together.
Speaker 1: No, it's come full circle. And Marishka sent me the
Speaker 1: book and I said, what integrity? And I looked it
Speaker 1: up and I said, I don't have any How do
Speaker 1: I get some?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's you know, the three of us could
Speaker 1: probably do a podcast that would go on for years
Speaker 1: and years and years. So I'm going to keep it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to streamline it because it's something that I
Speaker 1: think about all the time. And Martha just quick backstory.
Speaker 1: I'm in Boston, Massachusetts right now. My mother fell broke
Speaker 1: her hip, femur and knee, and so I've been spending
Speaker 1: you know, twelve hours a day at the hospital and
Speaker 1: one of the things that has and I was planning
Speaker 1: on talking about this anyway, but I am suddenly struck
Speaker 1: with all kinds of ideas about mortality and also about
Speaker 1: you know, being a middle aged woman and what it
Speaker 1: means now, because I think it's different than it used
Speaker 1: to be. Because the Golden Girls were in their fifties, right,
Speaker 1: which is shocking, were like forty two. Yeah, and I'm
Speaker 1: looking at the screen now and none of us look
Speaker 1: a day over thirty. So quite so, I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about like what kind of vitamins or hormonal
Speaker 1: cream we're supposed to use. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: the inside stuff because Marishka, my friend, lives her life
Speaker 1: with joy and energy and there's a just a vivaciousness
Speaker 1: about her that I find intoxicating, and there's a young
Speaker 1: spirit and you have it as well, you're just more
Speaker 1: clinical about it. So I want to go through it.
Speaker 1: How are we middle aged women right now, with kids,
Speaker 1: with lives, with anxiety, with global threats, how are we
Speaker 1: going to thrive in the next ten twenty years of
Speaker 1: our lives.
Speaker 2: You're actually asking me right now to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you got to answer this question, and you've
Speaker 1: got forty five minutes.
Speaker 2: Go Okay, you're absolutely right. Nothing's ever been this way before.
Speaker 2: The change is accelerating so fast and at an exponential rate,
Speaker 2: and the rate, the exponent that describes how fast it changing,
Speaker 2: is also changing exponentially, So basically there's a straight upward
Speaker 2: line of change. That means that our lives are nothing
Speaker 2: like our mother's lives or our grandmother's lives. Nothing. When
Speaker 2: my father was born, because I was born when he
Speaker 2: was older, horses were still he was born in Hollywood
Speaker 2: and they were still riding horses around, and like he
Speaker 2: only died a few years ago. So the pace of
Speaker 2: change is insane. No one knows what to do about it.
Speaker 2: I read a column by Richard Reeves, who talks about
Speaker 2: boys and men, and he said they're in crisis now
Speaker 2: because women changed the script during the feminist movement about
Speaker 2: what men and women are supposed to do. So women
Speaker 2: are off to the races and men don't have a
Speaker 2: script and they have to improvise and this is hard
Speaker 2: on them. And I thought, what do you think it's
Speaker 2: like for us? And we're making this up as we
Speaker 2: go along, and we've made more changes in one generation
Speaker 2: than any generation before. Here's the thing. In an entire
Speaker 2: world rocked by things that have never happened before, what
Speaker 2: is needed wisdom, the wisdom of how to tolerate change.
Speaker 2: Most men in the old arc would live one season.
Speaker 2: Spring yay, summer, a fall, hang on asbit long as
Speaker 2: you can winter, Oh dead boom. Women every day month
Speaker 2: we go through this, we go through changes, and you know,
Speaker 2: and then we go through changes where the caretakers of
Speaker 2: the young, the old, the sick, when they get sick,
Speaker 2: our lives change. When we get sick, our lives change.
Speaker 2: We do more things under more pressure than men have
Speaker 2: to do, and that is what gives a human being wisdom,
Speaker 2: and wisdom is the real you know, it used to
Speaker 2: be that knowledge was power. Then in the twentieth century
Speaker 2: they said attention is power. Now I believe wisdom is power.
Speaker 1: You know, they say, you know, uh, life is wasted
Speaker 1: on the youth. What's the saying youth is wasted on
Speaker 1: the young? Yeah, well all that because I feel and
Speaker 1: Marishka and I talk about this all the time, and
Speaker 1: Marishka way in here that I'm not only starting to
Speaker 1: figure it out now at you know, in my late fifties,
Speaker 1: and I feel like we get smarter and wiser definitely,
Speaker 1: And I just think, God, what a dumb ass I
Speaker 1: was in my twenties.
Speaker 3: No, not dumb ass.
Speaker 2: Oh maybe we don't know, but.
Speaker 3: It's not dumbass. And I, you know, I think that's
Speaker 3: such an important thing, Allie, that you say, because I
Speaker 3: think all of us look at ourselves. I mean, I
Speaker 3: know that I certainly do with this self sort of
Speaker 3: flagellating mentality of all the mistakes we made and what
Speaker 3: we didn't see. But what I find now is, you know,
Speaker 3: the question was how do we live in these uncertain times?
Speaker 3: And I think that the answer is yes, wisdom is
Speaker 3: our superpower and flexibility. Yes. And I find now, you know,
Speaker 3: I figured out sort of a while ago that you know,
Speaker 3: we can either laugh or cry, and so I've noticed
Speaker 3: now and I do think it's wisdom. Allian we do
Speaker 3: talk about it all the time. Is this idea of
Speaker 3: what are you going to do? And I sort of
Speaker 3: find myself skipping the drama piece and moving quickly toward okay.
Speaker 3: It's it's a quicker move toward acceptance and then moving on.
Speaker 3: And I think also combined with that is this wisdom
Speaker 3: that comes where you say, like your boundaries are so
Speaker 3: clear that I just go, I decide, and I read somewhere,
Speaker 3: don't hang out with people that are bad for your
Speaker 3: nervous system. And this is something that has truly changed
Speaker 3: my life, because you know, what is wisdom, Wisdom is
Speaker 3: connecting to our unconscious. We already have that the answers
Speaker 3: inside us, and knowing that and trusting that and trusting
Speaker 3: our gut we hear, it's your second brain. It's your
Speaker 3: second brain. It is, it really is. And it took
Speaker 3: us a while to sort of grock that. But now
Speaker 3: I feel I feel such a sense of peace and
Speaker 3: less anxiety, which is ironic with the state of the
Speaker 3: world the way it is, and yet and yet knowing
Speaker 3: that I have the love of my friends and my
Speaker 3: friendships and how valuable that is to me, but even
Speaker 3: more importantly my own inner compass, which is again our
Speaker 3: gut and our deep knowing, and I think that takes stillness,
Speaker 3: and so that learning to hone that and really trust
Speaker 3: it is everything. And my other thing that I'm preaching
Speaker 3: to the world, which is the idea now of instead
Speaker 3: of reacting, getting curious about something that happens, getting curious
Speaker 3: about your own reaction about your own anger about your
Speaker 3: own like wow, like you can almost feel like you're
Speaker 3: overtaken by aliens. And then we say, hmm, wow, that
Speaker 3: I had a powerful reaction to what's that about, as
Speaker 3: opposed to you know, which is what I certainly did
Speaker 3: because of my own trauma and my own fear, and
Speaker 3: now we get to a place where we go this
Speaker 3: is how it is, and emotional discomfort is a almost
Speaker 3: a friend of what the volcano is underneath and what
Speaker 3: we need to excavate. And the last thing I'll say,
Speaker 3: not really the last thing, because Martha Martha, she'll talk,
Speaker 3: but the last thing I'll say is this is integration,
Speaker 3: which is just the key. And I know you talk
Speaker 3: about it, which is it spoke so much to me,
Speaker 3: the idea of you know, all the parts that we
Speaker 3: have and making peace with them and integrating and then
Speaker 3: you know, I look at them like our little children
Speaker 3: inside of us and giving attention to all of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So before Martha, Martha is literally chopping at the bit
Speaker 1: because she's like, wait a second, Murshka talks even more
Speaker 1: than me. How could it possibly be wanted? I wanted
Speaker 1: because Mrshka just hit all all Like if Muska is
Speaker 1: writing a book right now, she's hit all the chapter heads.
Speaker 1: So I want to start with something because she's Mrska
Speaker 1: said this to me many times, and I find it
Speaker 1: very comforting when she says, don't be around people that
Speaker 1: hurt your nervous and still love that It takes us
Speaker 1: a long time to realize that. And I think, Martha,
Speaker 1: if I'm not wrong, you describe it as mean, people suck.
Speaker 1: Not as eloquent as Mariska, But so talk to us
Speaker 1: when you when you write about me and people suck.
Speaker 2: What you mean, Well, you're like an animal inside. Actually,
Speaker 2: it's like Mauritian has been reading my next book over
Speaker 2: my shoulder as I write. This is so brilliant. Oh,
Speaker 2: but when you're around somebody that causes your nervous system
Speaker 2: to react negatively, your social self tries to override it.
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be charming. I'm supposed to be president.
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be calm. I'm supposed to give this
Speaker 2: person a hug and a kiss. But there's an animal
Speaker 2: self inside us that is actually much older than the
Speaker 2: human neocortex. It's ancient and it knows when something is dangerous.
Speaker 2: So my friend Gavin de Becker, who wrote the book
Speaker 2: The Gift of Fear, talks about if an animal is
Speaker 2: alone in a room a dark building at night, and
Speaker 2: it goes to the elevator and the door opens, and
Speaker 2: there's someone inside that scares it. The only animal that
Speaker 2: will voluntarily walk into a soundproof steel box with another
Speaker 2: animal that scares it is a human, And yeah, that
Speaker 2: override is what we have to just let go of.
Speaker 2: And I think Mariska has because even if it's just
Speaker 2: a little annoyance, we do not have dying for that.
Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, Martha, because I agree
Speaker 1: with you, and this is something that I've inherited from
Speaker 1: my own mother, which is, how do you then get
Speaker 1: rid of the toxicity and be polite? Because there have
Speaker 1: been people in my life that hurt my nervous system.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to I don't want to rock
Speaker 1: the boat. I don't want to make waves. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be confrontational, and I've been brought up to
Speaker 1: be very polite. So how do I do that? How
Speaker 1: do I how do I not get in the elevator
Speaker 1: without offending the person in it?
Speaker 2: Well, if you override your instincts to make peace around you,
Speaker 2: you go to war on yourself.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: So the first thing is, if you want peace inside,
Speaker 2: realize that at some point your nature is going to
Speaker 2: bump up against somebody else's desires in a way where
Speaker 2: you'll disappoint them or upset them. That happens and then
Speaker 2: see what Mariska said is so key. I'm writing about
Speaker 2: anxiety now, and a lot of women more than men
Speaker 2: are are hair triggered when somebody else comes out with
Speaker 2: anger or even disappointment. Uh, it's we get so triggered
Speaker 2: and we get anxious and we go into what's called
Speaker 2: a fawning response.
Speaker 1: Did you know?
Speaker 2: Fight flight are some of the responses of anxiety, But
Speaker 2: fawning is another one where we please and we smile
Speaker 2: and we flatter because it's a social primate's way to
Speaker 2: not get killed by bigger social primates. Right, So we
Speaker 2: go into this involuntary fawning response that happens when the
Speaker 2: brain goes to fear boom. But there are two little
Speaker 2: structures the amy delay left and right at the core
Speaker 2: of the brain that deal with fear. And when the
Speaker 2: left of mygdala of fires boom, we get scared, start
Speaker 2: getting wound up and anxious and fawning. If at that
Speaker 2: moment we go instead to curiosity. That's how the right
Speaker 2: hand amygdalah handles just unusual situations. So there's a bolt
Speaker 2: of fear, somebody's coming at you. If you can say, huh,
Speaker 2: what's happening? If you can even force curiosity like a
Speaker 2: detective looking at this person, your brain will automatically go
Speaker 2: away from anxiety and into a curious and then a
Speaker 2: connected space on the right hemisphere, and your anxiety comes down.
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is that anxiety cuts us into
Speaker 2: and sort of pushes all of our connective parts away,
Speaker 2: where if we can get into the right hemisphere.
Speaker 1: It includes everything.
Speaker 2: It includes our nervousness, it includes the other person's anger,
Speaker 2: but it holds it all in a space of enormous calm,
Speaker 2: connected wisdom. We're coming right back to that. But curiosity
Speaker 2: is the chemerisk is absolutely right.
Speaker 1: So explain that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, first of all, Ali, Ali also has a
Speaker 3: superpower because we've had many talks about confrontation and not
Speaker 3: I am not afraid of confrontation. My parents weren't scared
Speaker 3: to say anything. I wish they were, but Ali and
Speaker 3: I had I mean, we joke about it because we
Speaker 3: were raised in such opposite ways, and yet she and
Speaker 3: I come together and meet so many places. Ali, I
Speaker 3: think your superpower has been your beautiful and samurai sharp
Speaker 3: comedy and wit, which can de escalate so many situations.
Speaker 3: I have a fraction of it, which I use a lot,
Speaker 3: but it is challenging for me to be with people
Speaker 3: that are very social and polite and keep it nice
Speaker 3: and I smile through it, and you just feel like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I don't even know this is everyone's
Speaker 3: so full of don't say shit. That's what I tell
Speaker 3: my kids after they watched Shit's creak, okay, sis Shiza,
Speaker 3: that that's very difficult. And that's when I'll say, you
Speaker 3: asked about the curiosity, and I've told you Ali, I've
Speaker 3: dealt with it with my daughter. I have an eleven
Speaker 3: year old daughter, and you know, they throw around the
Speaker 3: words like she was being mean, and then I say, well,
Speaker 3: let's talk about me. Why do you think somebody would
Speaker 3: be mean? And let's be And I say, like a
Speaker 3: detective and say, why would they be mean? Do you
Speaker 3: think maybe they felt scared? Do you think maybe they
Speaker 3: felt insecured? Do you think they maybe felt jealous? And
Speaker 3: we'll try to break it down that way. But I've
Speaker 3: found when I'm triggered or angry, or I'm talking to
Speaker 3: somebody and I go, my god, or we're having like
Speaker 3: a non conversation because they're not saying the truth. They're
Speaker 3: saying what they think I want to hear or what's appropriate.
Speaker 3: And I've done it too. I'm certainly not casting stones.
Speaker 3: I do it less now. I do it a lot
Speaker 3: less now. Or I'll be like, tell me about that.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's different. I just see it so differently,
Speaker 3: and I I just ask why Martha you have your
Speaker 3: hand up at Martha?
Speaker 2: Okay? So for real pragmatic approach, I used to think, yeah,
Speaker 2: if people are nice, fine, but if what if people
Speaker 2: are genuinely mean? What if they're really mean? And my
Speaker 2: favorite instructions for this come from an FBI hostage negotiator. Oh,
Speaker 2: Chris Boss. He was the top negotiator, and the way
Speaker 2: he deals with a hostage taker. So we're talking a
Speaker 2: psychopathic maniac who's killing multiple people in real life.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, now you're talking to Olivia Benson, Marcia.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just say why tell me more about
Speaker 3: why you want to.
Speaker 2: Love your shop?
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So what Chris Boss does when he's talking to these
Speaker 2: people is exactly what I do now with small children
Speaker 2: or with people who are upset in like in traffic.
Speaker 2: First of all, you drop your voice. It's really simple
Speaker 2: and really practical because what you're dealing with is another
Speaker 2: triggered animal, and the animal is what you're dealing with.
Speaker 2: So you lower your voice. It's just like you're dealing
Speaker 2: with a horse or a dog. Lower your voice, slow
Speaker 2: your breathing, don't look them in the eye, but look
Speaker 2: at them with a soft gaze, and then start to
Speaker 2: reflect what they say. Oh, I'm so upset you. Oh
Speaker 2: you're really upset. Yeah, I want to kill you. It
Speaker 2: sounds like you want to kill me. I mean, it
Speaker 2: seems so stupid when you say it, but you say
Speaker 2: it in a low voice, a soft voice, and you
Speaker 2: keep reflecting them, and then they start coming down out
Speaker 2: of their fireflight. They can't help it. It's mirror yourns.
Speaker 2: They can't help it. And then you get calmer, and
Speaker 2: they get calmer, and you just keep reflecting them. And
Speaker 2: what I always say is tell me everything, tell me everything. Oh,
Speaker 2: tell me more. That sounds awful. Within five minutes they're done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is how my conversations usually go with Allie. Anyway.
Speaker 1: By the way, that works for marriage too.
Speaker 3: I bet, yeah, I guess. But Martha, what about when
Speaker 3: you're talking to somebody and that you're talking about to
Speaker 3: somebody who is triggered. You're talking about that, which is
Speaker 3: a very effective tactic or technique. But what if you're
Speaker 3: talking to somebody who's utterly been socialized and polite and
Speaker 3: disconnected from the self that they never excavated, right Ali,
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Murska and I talk a lot about how at
Speaker 1: our age we just can't do the tip chat anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm just not interested, you know, can't, as Mersky likes
Speaker 1: to say, like we go in and we go deeper
Speaker 1: or not at all. At our age, I don't have
Speaker 1: time for it anymore.
Speaker 3: I have I have.
Speaker 1: There's too many people and kids and work, no time.
Speaker 1: And that is the wisdom.
Speaker 2: It's the wisdom that says time is limited. We're not
Speaker 2: doing any shit. We don't like the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's about giving us permission though, too.
Speaker 1: I need to give myself permission to go. I don't
Speaker 1: have time for this. I don't have time for this.
Speaker 1: I'm sick of the bullshit. Yea, just give me my
Speaker 1: National Inquiry and leave me alone.
Speaker 2: Sylvia Plaus said I was not good at small talk,
Speaker 2: and large talk is not encouraged.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh ouch, but you can, but I just.
Speaker 2: Go straight to the large talk. Anyway, I have time
Speaker 2: for that. If somebody's disconnected, I say to them, you
Speaker 2: seem completely disconnected. That's the only interesting thing about them.
Speaker 2: That's the only thing I'm curious about. Yeah, and as
Speaker 2: an older woman, I can just say.
Speaker 3: Shit, yeah, it's so interesting. And I think what got me,
Speaker 3: that hooked me to you first was, of course you're
Speaker 3: you know, in the book of the Way of Integrity,
Speaker 3: of this idea of saying I'm not going to lie
Speaker 3: for one year. And it's so interesting, right because it's
Speaker 3: truly a challenge. I mean when you read that, everyone goes,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie either, and then you immediately feel
Speaker 3: that the little, the little micro lies and it is
Speaker 3: h It is a balance and a dance to not
Speaker 3: to not hurt it is that's a real skill to
Speaker 3: not hurt or to couch it in a way that
Speaker 3: it's authentic to you. That's the part. That's the skill
Speaker 3: that I'm finding now is this way of being like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to hurt people ever, but my boundary
Speaker 3: is crucial and it's my only salvation.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it always was. We just didn't have it earlier, right.
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, or we didn't know we were allowed
Speaker 3: to have peace and truth and boundaries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a huge there's a huge difference between
Speaker 2: kindness and caretaking or kindness and fawning and groveling. Fawning
Speaker 2: and groveling aren't true, and so they bring the whole
Speaker 2: relationship into a false space. And actually, no one feels
Speaker 2: safe in there, even though they may be doing the
Speaker 2: social dance. If somebody just says, you know what, like
Speaker 2: I just I don't really feel conversational right now. I'm
Speaker 2: just going to watch you or whatever it is. You know,
Speaker 2: is it kind?
Speaker 1: Is it true? Is it necessary?
Speaker 2: Those are the only things you say, and kindness can
Speaker 2: be no, sweetheart. I mean, think about them all as
Speaker 2: two year olds. Everybody's a two year old in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, what a great thing to say.
Speaker 2: And you don't let the two year old have the screwdriver.
Speaker 1: You just no, right, there's a lot more to come
Speaker 1: after the short break.
Speaker 3: And we're back.
Speaker 1: You know. I have found too that when I'm with
Speaker 1: people that I start to feel unsafe with just because
Speaker 1: they are doing the chitter chatter small talk as soon
Speaker 1: as I give permission to be vulnerable, like if I
Speaker 1: say I can't, there's only so much zoloft I can take.
Speaker 1: Then they sort of relax into it, and you go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, me too. It's like it's like it's
Speaker 1: a hawn you to almost have the ice breaker that
Speaker 1: gives you a more real human experience with somebody else.
Speaker 3: And you can see them, you could see their whole
Speaker 3: physicality drop into themselves. They go like they actually say like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: we're gonna be real. Yeah, and then they just feel
Speaker 3: utterly relaxed. And that is the gift.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that, A lot of
Speaker 1: that is a lot of people that meet Marishka and
Speaker 1: she's so real with them, She's not performative. They walk
Speaker 1: away from her and they really feel like they've had
Speaker 1: a connection. And I'm talking about people she knows, people
Speaker 1: she doesn't know. And it's been an interesting thing for
Speaker 1: me to observe because I've learned from it, you know,
Speaker 1: because I'm less now, my mother, I'm less now, you know.
Speaker 1: Would you like some more tea and put your white
Speaker 1: gloves over there and more? You know, hey, menopause sucks
Speaker 1: and I heard you're getting divorced, and I think it's
Speaker 1: a much better space to live in.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, thanks for that. But I find
Speaker 3: the more honest you are, the more honest they are.
Speaker 3: And again that's what I was talking about the exhale,
Speaker 3: and I think that's again what you talked about, Martha
Speaker 3: in your book, about which you know, I think every
Speaker 3: shrink on the planet is trying to give. And you
Speaker 3: did it in such a beautiful and concise way. As
Speaker 3: we go through the pain, we go through the uncomfortability,
Speaker 3: your life breaks, falls apart, shatters. You see that this
Speaker 3: glass bullshit house you've built. And then on the other side,
Speaker 3: is that is the definition of wisdom, of peace and
Speaker 3: everything that God I think intended for us in terms
Speaker 3: of being all of ourselves, about about having true connection
Speaker 3: with another, giving one hundred percent, getting two hundred percent,
Speaker 3: because that's just the mass, and it is been. It's
Speaker 3: such a honor two to be reminded in such a
Speaker 3: beautiful and concise way. And and if I may one more,
Speaker 3: I don't want to overtalk. Allie. Thank you for that
Speaker 3: very lovely compliment. And Allie you that's why I love you,
Speaker 3: is because Ali will level the playing field anywhere. Anytime.
Speaker 3: We've been in many a situation where I who really
Speaker 3: like to think of myself as fearless. She'll say something
Speaker 3: in a group that you don't think is gonna it's
Speaker 3: gonna land well with and I have been like I mean,
Speaker 3: speachless and Ali you do that constantly by being so
Speaker 3: real and so open and saying what everyone's thinking and
Speaker 3: not saying. And some people think they don't have the
Speaker 3: permission to say, and yet it's the truth, and the truth,
Speaker 3: as we all know, is the only way.
Speaker 2: So what you're talking about is courage, yes, And you
Speaker 2: know there are places where to go through that, Like
Speaker 2: in the Divine Comedy, which I focus on a little
Speaker 2: bit in my books, it's the metaphor is a wall
Speaker 2: of fire that you just have to walk through and
Speaker 2: it doesn't last long and it's not that painful, but
Speaker 2: it's terrifying, terrifying to go into it.
Speaker 1: So did it happen?
Speaker 2: I'm interested in this with both of you, but like.
Speaker 1: I'll make a spandwich you guys.
Speaker 2: Were you born this way? Did you have an experience
Speaker 2: where the glasshouse shattered and you've been this way ever since?
Speaker 2: Or did you learn it incrementally? I want to know
Speaker 2: from both of you.
Speaker 3: Well, my answer is E all of the above. In
Speaker 3: terms of I did grow up with a father that
Speaker 3: said that was just bucking the system and said that's bullshit,
Speaker 3: that's bullshit. Everything is bullshit. So I sort of learned
Speaker 3: very young to question everything, to question everything. And then
Speaker 3: as I got old or and I think that I've
Speaker 3: you know, been through a lot of trauma and so
Speaker 3: therefore I had so much pain that it really forced
Speaker 3: me to go into deep self reflection and do work.
Speaker 3: And then I started to see the ways that I
Speaker 3: wasn't being authentic or not I was pleasing or a
Speaker 3: little bit like the dancing monkey because of my abandonment
Speaker 3: issues blah blah blah. And then as I worked on
Speaker 3: them and saw that it was like not my true self,
Speaker 3: and I started to emerge going, oh, oh, I like
Speaker 3: this better. I actually don't like that person or whatever
Speaker 3: it was, or or you you know, you would if
Speaker 3: somebody didn't like me, that would be very upsetting and
Speaker 3: then I could get them to like me, or I'd
Speaker 3: work too hard on it and then I and then
Speaker 3: and then I'd get to know them and go, I'm
Speaker 3: not interested. So it was what happened was I couldn't
Speaker 3: see clearly, so through the self work and I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to lie. It's been excruciating. There's been
Speaker 3: times when I didn't think I could get through, and
Speaker 3: it was so painful and so terrifying. But I think
Speaker 3: for me, it was the courage to the only way
Speaker 3: out through. It was the courage to go through it
Speaker 3: and then realizing what I found on the other side
Speaker 3: was exponentially more peaceful, more authentic. I was more truly loving.
Speaker 3: I could see clearly people and also what others needed,
Speaker 3: and that was just the greatest gift. Wow. And that's
Speaker 3: why I read the book resonated with me because I
Speaker 3: had set up things that I thought people wanted or
Speaker 3: what I was supposed to do, and now I really
Speaker 3: have no regard for that.
Speaker 2: I have met very few people who have done this
Speaker 2: process from start to finish in one lifetime. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: you are amazing.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, everybody look at hurt and you Ali.
Speaker 1: No, it's okay, you don't have to look at me.
Speaker 2: What is it? Have you always had the laser wit?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: You know, the only thing similar with Marishka is that
Speaker 1: I grew up in a fractured household of multiple divorces,
Speaker 1: and I got lost in the system of the family,
Speaker 1: and so I created wit. You know, that was my way.
Speaker 1: And I also grew up in a household where there's
Speaker 1: a lot of secrets, where we pushed everything down. We
Speaker 1: did not talk about stuff. You did not say words
Speaker 1: like masturbation or feelings. And so when I got.
Speaker 3: Oh, whoa, Who's words for the same thing.
Speaker 1: This whole podcast is about master. But so I I
Speaker 1: at a young age, said I don't want to push
Speaker 1: things down. I don't want to repress these things. I
Speaker 1: may not want to masturbate or say the word, but
Speaker 1: everything else I'm not interested in. And so I would
Speaker 1: constantly push the envelope and I would do it with
Speaker 1: my comedy. I would do it with being outspoken. And
Speaker 1: the more I did that, the more I felt that
Speaker 1: it was real. So the more I pushed up against
Speaker 1: my parents and said, well, why did you get divorced?
Speaker 1: Why did this happen? Why aren't you like what when
Speaker 1: was I conceived?
Speaker 3: Did this work?
Speaker 1: The more I realized that truth is the answer, and
Speaker 1: truth is going to actually create the human being that
Speaker 1: I am today. And I still do it. I push
Speaker 1: hard with my husband, with my friends, you know, even
Speaker 1: with my mother. Now, who's in the hospital. You know,
Speaker 1: she's been taking these which make her delusional. She's saying
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, and I, the nurses and everybody
Speaker 1: else go, that's right, you're in Ireland. And I go, no, no, Mom,
Speaker 1: you're in the hospital, because I'm like, we can't play
Speaker 1: that game anymore, you know, let's just let's just make
Speaker 1: it up. So anyway, my point is that when I
Speaker 1: pushed people to tell the truth, I felt safer. Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't feel safe in a world where everything is
Speaker 1: make believe and everybody is trying to make sure everybody's okay.
Speaker 3: Nobody does. I think that's been such a big part
Speaker 3: of our friendship and how it continually goes deeper. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and we've had to go up against a few things.
Speaker 1: Which is scary because our personalities are such that, you know,
Speaker 1: if you if you really get confrontational and you really
Speaker 1: get down into the muck and mere, you might get abandoned.
Speaker 1: And both Mariska and I suffer from that. So for
Speaker 1: to be able to go into a safe space and
Speaker 1: go all right, let's get dirty and know that we're
Speaker 1: going to be safe. You know that we're going to
Speaker 1: be okay. I mean, I've had times when I've cried
Speaker 1: with Mushka and I've said to her before we even talked,
Speaker 1: don't abandon me, don't abandon me, and she goes, ohll never.
Speaker 2: You're not getting rid of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but as soon as she says that, I feel
Speaker 1: safe and then we can really have a conversation, and
Speaker 1: that's that you can. And that's just not true of
Speaker 1: a lot of people. No, it isn't even my husband.
Speaker 1: He's not going to let go fifty percent of his salary,
Speaker 1: so I know he's staying.
Speaker 2: Plus there's the fact that he's manacled to the radiator.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's also true.
Speaker 2: Now, the interesting thing is that even if someone says
Speaker 2: I won't leave you and then they do, oh, for example,
Speaker 2: they die, can't help it, it is still worth it
Speaker 2: because here's the thing. I at a certain point when
Speaker 2: I decided not to lie for a year, left my religion.
Speaker 2: So that meantally leaving my entire community of origin because
Speaker 2: I was raised in this super Mormon community. Whole family
Speaker 2: gone like huge family, no communication, no friends, like quit
Speaker 2: my job, quit everything, and a lot of people that.
Speaker 1: I still love I never saw again.
Speaker 2: It didn't matter the fact that I was finally being
Speaker 2: honest and saying what I really felt. Even though they
Speaker 2: said I never want to see you again, and they
Speaker 2: followed through with that, I was still more whole. And
Speaker 2: I'll tell you something weird, and it may be woo woo,
Speaker 2: but it is the truth. You can feel genuine love
Speaker 2: whether or not someone thinks they love you, and the
Speaker 2: knowledge that they love you underneath whatever anger they have
Speaker 2: can be a part of your own integrity. In fact,
Speaker 2: if you think they have stopped loving you, you're lying
Speaker 2: to yourself because love never stops. They can fight it,
Speaker 2: they can cover it, they can die, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: They are still going to be part of your inner life.
Speaker 2: And the love of is the only part that's going
Speaker 2: to get through all the If you put out complete truth,
Speaker 2: nothing can get through but truth and the love from
Speaker 2: them is true.
Speaker 3: That why God put me on this podcast today to
Speaker 3: hear you say that.
Speaker 1: That's while my guests say every time I record.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not talking about you, sweetie, I know, I know.
Speaker 3: Wait wait wait, Martha, can I ask you one follow
Speaker 3: up question? Because that is so beautiful And actually that's
Speaker 3: going to take me a minute to download, and I'd
Speaker 3: love to talk more about that at another time without
Speaker 3: Ali kidding offline, Martha offline. But may I ask, because
Speaker 3: I know that was a while ago when you had
Speaker 3: the courage to do what you did, which is so heroic.
Speaker 3: But did any of those people that said no, no, no,
Speaker 3: you're done, you're dead to me see you and see
Speaker 3: what happened and went I want that and come around?
Speaker 2: Yeah one of them did one.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I thought you were going to say.
Speaker 2: Most some other people have come back, you know, distant
Speaker 2: friends or acquaintance.
Speaker 3: Says no, you.
Speaker 2: I mean, the grip of that culture is more powerful
Speaker 2: than you might imagine. But I do have a dear
Speaker 2: loved one but ended up struggling and struggling, ending up
Speaker 2: for a while, putting themselves in psychiatric care, and then
Speaker 2: leaving Mormonism as well, and came back around thirty years later,
Speaker 2: expecting me to be hateful and mean, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I have loved you every day of my life. I
Speaker 2: have never stopped for a second and I never will.
Speaker 2: And it was just like boom, we were back. We
Speaker 2: were there. And the weird thing is, here's the thing.
Speaker 2: She was the only one I missed.
Speaker 3: Oh isn't that interesting?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the others I loved, but I missed her and
Speaker 2: she came back after thirty years, and oh my god,
Speaker 2: it was like I go through the three. You know,
Speaker 2: there's the Inferno, there's Purgatorio, and Paradise. Mariska is talking
Speaker 2: about when you get through all the barriers to integration,
Speaker 2: you go into a state that's like Dante's Paradise, where
Speaker 2: everything is so loving and connected and magical. And to
Speaker 2: have even one relationship like that come back around just
Speaker 2: blasted me into that place of magic and beauty. It's
Speaker 2: so worth being truthful for that, even if you have
Speaker 2: to wait thirty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so beautiful. Thank you.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I always say that my one of my favorite feelings
Speaker 3: is when I am where I'm supposed to be, that
Speaker 3: I know that there's no place else i'd rather be that.
Speaker 3: That's that, you know, it's the opposite of I guess
Speaker 3: fomo right, It's yes, it's somebody said it's called joemo
Speaker 3: a joy joy of missing out, you know, whatever that was.
Speaker 3: I thought that was cute, But this idea of that,
Speaker 3: and I think what's so tragic to me is that
Speaker 3: people who are suffering internally knowing something's wrong and don't
Speaker 3: have the courage to to get out because of how
Speaker 3: they were indoctrinated, how they were raised. But it's mostly
Speaker 3: fear based. And for that, I'm so grateful to my father,
Speaker 3: who was like, challenge everything. And then when I challenged him,
Speaker 3: because I'd go, I don't agree with you, here's what,
Speaker 3: He's like, well what do you think? And I said, well,
Speaker 3: you said that and that contradicts that, and how can
Speaker 3: that be true if that's true? And then he would
Speaker 3: or he you know, when I was a kid, he'd
Speaker 3: punish me and go, you know, no phone for a
Speaker 3: week or a month when he was mad. And then
Speaker 3: I said, Dad, I don't think that that infraction meets
Speaker 3: the pub and he'd go, you're right. I was mad, Okay, okay,
Speaker 3: you could use the phone whatever. It was the sense
Speaker 3: of the sense of fairness and the sense of also
Speaker 3: not sticking, not sticking to an emotion in the moment
Speaker 3: of anger, that things can change and that we have
Speaker 3: that flexibility to go. That's why I always apologize to
Speaker 3: my children, to anyone that if I do something wrong,
Speaker 3: to say that was a moment, a weak moment. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: I was mad because I did not navigate my feelings,
Speaker 3: and Ali and I had this big fight one time
Speaker 3: that was super scary for us.
Speaker 1: It was me's fault.
Speaker 3: But no, but that was the moment, remember, And that
Speaker 3: was the moment that I said, listen to me, I
Speaker 3: love you, I will never leave you. And that was
Speaker 3: what changed it, because that's what makes us. That abandonment
Speaker 3: turns us into the animal, the fearful animal that will
Speaker 3: do whatever we have to do to protect. And then
Speaker 3: I think that's what love is saying.
Speaker 4: God, so uncomfortable right now, I'm scared shitless, but I
Speaker 4: love you and I love what you said about it's
Speaker 4: even it's worth it if that person leaves us.
Speaker 3: It's worth it. You know. I have that with my mother. Obviously,
Speaker 3: it's so so sad and tragic and like I always
Speaker 3: describe it as sort of a hole in my heart.
Speaker 3: But sure, but what a beautiful thing to hang on to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll be right back, welcome back to go
Speaker 1: ask Gali.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I had a similar experience recently which really made me understand.
Speaker 1: It was so so cathartic. I had a friend I
Speaker 1: had known her for twenty five years. We had a
Speaker 1: full out about a very simple mistake, which is I
Speaker 1: sent a text to her rather than to my husband,
Speaker 1: and I was talking about her, and I was critiquing her,
Speaker 1: and she, because of her very high abandonment, shut the wall.
Speaker 1: There's nothing I could do. I called her, and I
Speaker 1: wrote letters and sent flowers and said, you cannot throw
Speaker 1: a twenty five year relationship away.
Speaker 3: Oh God.
Speaker 1: But her abandonment was so high. She just she it
Speaker 1: was like an iron curtain.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So a few years went by, and I was very sad.
Speaker 1: You know, I was sad that this relationship had ended
Speaker 1: for years.
Speaker 3: You were sad.
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, she texted me and said,
Speaker 1: I had a dream about you last night, and we
Speaker 1: were laughing. Anyway, just to shorten the story, I met
Speaker 1: her at a restaurant. We met for dinner. This had
Speaker 1: been six years since we had that thing, and it
Speaker 1: was the most cathartic evening. It was a four hour
Speaker 1: dinner wow, where she basically said, I have high abandonment.
Speaker 1: I'm scared, but I love you, So I'm here and
Speaker 1: I'm going to be vulnerable with you, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to hope for the best. And I came to her
Speaker 1: and said, I've been hurt by you. I've been angry
Speaker 1: about this, but I'm putting that aside. I'm going to
Speaker 1: be totally vulnerable, and I hope I can be safe
Speaker 1: with you. And we ended up obviously going through everything,
Speaker 1: but really getting into why we had the reactions we had,
Speaker 1: why we felt the way we felt, And it was
Speaker 1: a journey that I got to speed through a journey
Speaker 1: of what we're talking about now and then came out
Speaker 1: the other end. And now we have this friendship again.
Speaker 1: It's a different friendship than it was, but it's a
Speaker 1: friendship that went through such a hurdle that now we
Speaker 1: kind of know each other in a deeper way and
Speaker 1: there's an understanding of I'm not going anywhere on both sides,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: What I mean.
Speaker 1: And I took this big risk and this big leap,
Speaker 1: whereas ninety percent of me is saying like forget it,
Speaker 1: Like I was even thinking, like you know what, I
Speaker 1: forget it. She hasn't spoken to me in sixty years,
Speaker 1: like I'm that's it, I'm over it. And so I
Speaker 1: got to learn this lesson and play it out, you know,
Speaker 1: with another human being. As much as I read I
Speaker 1: read about your lessons in your book. I actually, you know,
Speaker 1: I had to. It was on my stage, you know,
Speaker 1: And it's always scary.
Speaker 2: It's always scary. But what you both said is so powerful,
Speaker 2: Like what if we made a commitment right here, and
Speaker 2: it's like a gust up integrity cleanse. The integrity cleans
Speaker 2: is no lies. I've been on my current one for
Speaker 2: seven years.
Speaker 1: By the way, you haven't lied in seven years.
Speaker 2: Not purposely. Sometimes I slip and say it by accident,
Speaker 2: but really then I always go back and say, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry I said that because I want you to
Speaker 2: like me.
Speaker 1: So who do you think is prettier? You're Marishka.
Speaker 2: You're both divine, gorgeous goddesses, and I do not have
Speaker 2: to lie. You get to hook me up to a Do.
Speaker 3: You think it's more wisdom?
Speaker 2: We're all part of the one great mind.
Speaker 1: So there, haha.
Speaker 2: You're both wonderful. But you both said this thing that
Speaker 2: is incredible is even even deeper than saying I will
Speaker 2: tell the truth is My truth is love and when
Speaker 2: I love truly, that can not change you know. So
Speaker 2: you want to beat me up, I will defend myself physically,
Speaker 2: but I will love you through the whole thing. You
Speaker 2: want to abandon me. Go ahead, I'll grieve, I'll cry.
Speaker 2: I will love you through the whole thing. You will
Speaker 2: never be able to stop me from loving you. And
Speaker 2: then bang, your side of the street is clean and
Speaker 2: you get to go to paradise no matter what.
Speaker 1: Oh, that is the lesson. That is the lesson, Martha.
Speaker 1: You should write a book or blog or do something
Speaker 1: something with your life.
Speaker 2: But who would read it.
Speaker 1: You got to meet our friend Oprah, she would really
Speaker 1: dig you.
Speaker 3: But I have to say, that is such a gift
Speaker 3: to hear and again the beautiful reminder. And then when
Speaker 3: we hear something truth, we go our soul ghosts. That's true.
Speaker 3: That's true. Yeah, And so for that I thank you
Speaker 3: because like that's my language is love too. But I
Speaker 3: just love the idea. Ali. Next time, if we have
Speaker 3: an uncomfortable moment, I'm gonna go I love you.
Speaker 2: I want to say one more thing too. The topic
Speaker 2: I was given, we were going to talk about aging women.
Speaker 1: Yeah we're not now, I guess, but we are you No,
Speaker 1: I know because I just read.
Speaker 2: This book by Catherine May, who's who wrote a beautiful memoir,
Speaker 2: and she talks about meditating and how men get to
Speaker 2: go off and sit in silence for ninety days and
Speaker 2: discover them to themselves. But what are the women doing.
Speaker 2: They have to get up during those ninety days when
Speaker 2: my husband's not there and take care of people and
Speaker 2: wipe up vomit and be cursed at and have your
Speaker 2: mother or your child scream in your face or whatever,
Speaker 2: and to come back somehow with gentleness and power and strength.
Speaker 2: And that is something we learn by doing it over
Speaker 2: and over and over again. And that is what aging
Speaker 2: women have more than anybody else in the world. I
Speaker 2: would venture that as a sociologist. So we have all
Speaker 2: this time and been talking about that, and the message
Speaker 2: is be in your truth and love forever, full stop. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's what we bring.
Speaker 1: Look at you, Martha, ending the podcast on a perfect
Speaker 1: notea well before we hop off, and this was great.
Speaker 1: I told you you can't you know we could literally
Speaker 1: do a podcast once a week for the next forty years.
Speaker 2: That would be fun.
Speaker 1: To give people that have been on my show an
Speaker 1: opportunity to ask me a question. So Martha and Marishka,
Speaker 1: if you can ask me a question, why don't we
Speaker 1: start with Martha anything you want?
Speaker 2: How do you stay funny when you're scared. Ah, because
Speaker 2: this is another right brain thing. If the right brain
Speaker 2: handles humor, if you can bring that in, it does
Speaker 2: the same thing as curiosity. It deflates all the aggression.
Speaker 2: So how do you do it when you're scared?
Speaker 1: It actually comes on stronger when I'm scared?
Speaker 3: Did it always?
Speaker 1: Always? So if I'm scared, or if I'm at a
Speaker 1: very high anxiety level, the humor kicks in and I'm
Speaker 1: almost not even conscious of it.
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Can I quote you in my book that you
Speaker 1: can quote me as much as you want? Yeah, I mean, Marishka,
Speaker 1: do you remember when we were running, Yes, and we
Speaker 1: were scared, and I was making jokes about how well
Speaker 1: I guess I'm with Olivia Benson, So I can't. That
Speaker 1: is my That is how my consciousness is trying to
Speaker 1: calm me down. Yeah, And I'm almost not even aware
Speaker 1: of it. It just starts happening. Or if I'm at
Speaker 1: a dinner party and I'm socially anxious, I almost disassociate
Speaker 1: and I you know, turn into carrat top and it
Speaker 1: just it takes over as a way to protect me.
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. Yeah, that's fascinating and very true. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you'd like to do some experiments on me
Speaker 1: for your next book with wires and probes, they will
Speaker 1: involve wires and probes, right, I love a probe. Mariska
Speaker 1: your turn asked me anything, although I'm sure you've asked me.
Speaker 3: I had like three, You're only allowed one, sweetheart. I'm
Speaker 3: a rule breaker.
Speaker 1: Oh, I guess.
Speaker 3: So I was gonna say, how do you stay scared
Speaker 3: when you're funny? Ah? See how I did that?
Speaker 2: Oh I don't see what you did there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, Alie, how do you take care
Speaker 3: of yourself? And I ask that because Ali is somebody
Speaker 3: who like, is so incredibly thoughtful and takes care and
Speaker 3: makes everyone feel so seen, you know, and is cake
Speaker 3: baker and a text writer, and I know how she
Speaker 3: takes care of her family and makes children feel number one.
Speaker 3: She makes me feel like I'm the only person in
Speaker 3: the world. And yet there's a lot of people that
Speaker 3: feel that way. And so the output is big, and
Speaker 3: it's there's nothing you can't do, even in the middle
Speaker 3: of the day, And I'm like, Ali, I need cookies,
Speaker 3: and then like, you know, an hour later, I've got cookies.
Speaker 3: So how do you take care of you or replenish
Speaker 3: your soul?
Speaker 1: See Martha, I'm going to tell you something right now,
Speaker 1: Even Marishka right now complimenting me, I get so uncomfortable
Speaker 1: that I could have made ten jokes. I could have
Speaker 1: interrupted her and made a million jokes.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I really want to do probes on you.
Speaker 1: You pull me.
Speaker 3: What was the first joke that came to you?
Speaker 1: How do you take care of yourself? You said, how
Speaker 1: do you take care of yourself? Then? You know, my
Speaker 1: jokes were like have you seen my stomach? You know,
Speaker 1: I'm just like deflect, deflect, deflect, But that's it's God,
Speaker 1: that's my defense. But how do I take care of myself?
Speaker 3: Not? Well?
Speaker 1: I mean that's one of the things I'm learning as
Speaker 1: I get older, because when I was younger, I would
Speaker 1: not eat, not sleep. You know, I went through a
Speaker 1: depression in my late twenties where my body shut down.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't eat, I wouldn't sleep, I was chain smoking,
Speaker 1: and you know, so I'm I'm the first to turn
Speaker 1: on myself that way. But I'm learning as I used
Speaker 1: to be used to yes, and I'm learning as I
Speaker 1: get older. I'm like, I got to sleep I need
Speaker 1: to sleep, I need to eat. These are the things
Speaker 1: I need to do. And right now, when I'm at
Speaker 1: the hospital with my mother all day long, I know
Speaker 1: when I need to go downstairs to the commissary and
Speaker 1: call my husband and breathe and have you know, a banana.
Speaker 1: So I'm learning I don't run myself into the ground
Speaker 1: like I used to, And that to me is wisdom.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's certainly the beginning. Yeah, and oh my yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I'm dying to ask you. I know where at
Speaker 2: the end, but I'm just dying to ask you. If
Speaker 2: you take the gester, the one inside you who's making
Speaker 2: the jokes and who's disassociated from the rest of you
Speaker 2: and is also running on nervous energy and nicotine and whatnot,
Speaker 2: And you imagine like watching her jolly and the everywhere,
Speaker 2: and you're watching her from the position of a calm
Speaker 2: like omniscient presence. What is the kindest thing you could
Speaker 2: say to the gesture?
Speaker 1: I think I would put my arm around the gesture
Speaker 1: and say, you don't have to do that.
Speaker 2: Ooh, did you just feel that.
Speaker 3: I did?
Speaker 2: It's that thing about she came into her body when
Speaker 2: she said it. Yep, she came back into integrity, because
Speaker 2: being kind to all the parts of ourselves is integration,
Speaker 2: bringing them all into the circle of our embrace.
Speaker 3: That's right, And you did it.
Speaker 2: You just did it so beautifully, Alie.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Thank you, guys. This was more
Speaker 1: than a girl could ever hope for. And I think
Speaker 1: people listening to this are going to listen to it
Speaker 1: over and over again because you are some badass warriors.
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that schedule permitted we could get together.
Speaker 1: And by the way, let's get together not on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Literally, like what you said about Marishka when you
Speaker 2: got on, it felt it the moment I saw her face,
Speaker 2: it was just like, oh she's real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so real. Oh gosh, and Ali, I've always felt
Speaker 3: that way about you, so Martha.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, guys.
Speaker 3: I love you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: I love you guys so much.
Speaker 3: This was the best you guys, it really was.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to go ask Galie, whoa what
Speaker 1: a way to end season three? Oh? I love those girls.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: You can learn more about Martha Beck, her books, and
Speaker 1: her podcast at Marthabeck dot com, and Marushka can be
Speaker 1: found on Instagram. At the Real Murshka Hargatea and of
Speaker 1: course Olivia Benson can be found every day, all day
Speaker 1: long on every channel. For links and more info and
Speaker 1: what you heard in this episode, just check out our
Speaker 1: show notes. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review, Go
Speaker 1: Ask Galie and follow me on social media on Instagram
Speaker 1: at the Real Ali Wentworth. Now, if you'd like to
Speaker 1: ask me a question or suggest a guest or a
Speaker 1: topic to dig into for season four, I would love
Speaker 1: to hear from you, and there's a bunch of ways
Speaker 1: you can do it.
Speaker 3: You can call or text me at.
Speaker 1: Three two three three six four six three five six,
Speaker 1: or you can email a voice memo right from your
Speaker 1: phone to Go Ask Galipodcasts at gmail dot com. If
Speaker 1: you leave a question, oh shit, hold on dog sparking.
Speaker 1: If you leave a question, you just might hear.
Speaker 2: Hey, maybe you can put that in.
Speaker 1: If you leave a question, you just might hear it
Speaker 1: on Go Ask Gali And that's a wrap on season three.
Speaker 1: Go Ask Gali is a production of Shondaland Audio and
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