1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: Bishops and cardinals are raising their voices to oppose the

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,879
Speaker 1: Trump administration over immigration policy, even their plans for Greenland.

3
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: Have the bishops crossed a political line? Are they exercising

4
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: their prophetic voices the Prayerful Posse. We'll explore it all next.

5
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Prayerful Posse. Be sure to subscribe to

6
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 1: the show. It's a wonderful way to support the work

7
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 1: totally free, or visit Raymondroyo dot com if you'd like

8
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 1: to contribute. Let's convene the posse canon lawyer and priests

9
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,839
Speaker 1: of the Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray, and

10
00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,920
Speaker 1: an editor in chief of The Catholic Thing dot org,

11
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,680
Speaker 1: Robert Royal. Thank you both for being here. Before we

12
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,919
Speaker 1: jump in, I still want your input, guys. Tell us

13
00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 1: what you want to talk about in the weeks ahead.

14
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,680
Speaker 1: Questions about history or church teaching practice. Drop them in

15
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: the comments here or send them to Raymond at Raymondroyo

16
00:00:59,000 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 1: dot com.

17
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,080
Speaker 2: Will get to all of them.

18
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 1: I have to say, Jens, I was amazed this week

19
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,120
Speaker 1: at the number of clerics wading into political waters. Former

20
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 1: USCCB president Archbishop Timothy Broglio, currently the leader of the

21
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 1: Archdiocese for the Military Services is essentially telling Catholic servicemen.

22
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 1: I guess any serviceman that they could disobey orders if

23
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,600
Speaker 1: Trump moves on Greenland and do it with a clear conscience.

24
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: He told the BBC that quote, he cannot see any

25
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:36,480
Speaker 1: circumstances in which an American military operation to take control

26
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 1: of Greenland could.

27
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 2: Fulfill the criteria for a just war.

28
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: Now, Bob, with all due respect, and Trump has now

29
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 1: come out and said he's not going to use force there.

30
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 1: But with all due respect to Archbishop Broglio, who is

31
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 1: a good man. I didn't realize archbishops were now in

32
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 1: a position to determine national security and international policy or

33
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,919
Speaker 1: encourage ignoring the orders of a commander in chief.

34
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're exactly right about that, Raymond, and

35
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 3: I agree with you. He's basically a very very good man.

36
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 3: I think we've all known him over the years. He

37
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,679
Speaker 3: was very good as president of the USCCB. It's puzzling

38
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,760
Speaker 3: why he decided to speak out about this, especially because

39
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,799
Speaker 3: in the current circumstances in which we find ourselves, this

40
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 3: idea of ignoring an illegal command by a superior is

41
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:29,240
Speaker 3: something that those six democratic senators, we recall got involved

42
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 3: within a short while ago. And so not only is

43
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 3: he kind of pre emptively jumping into something that it's

44
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 3: not really necessary for him to do, because as I

45
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 3: hear from military people, father has been a chaplain to

46
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 3: the Navy, and he probably can can confirm this. But

47
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,440
Speaker 3: I hear from military people and from intelligence people that

48
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 3: one of the first things you're told is that you

49
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 3: don't have to obey an illegal order. But when it

50
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 3: comes to kind of contradicting the commander in chief before

51
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 3: there is this circumstance, I don't know why I had

52
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 3: to get into this. It makes him look partisan. I

53
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 3: think you could have waited to see what exact foreimness

54
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 3: was going to take. I don't think it's a good

55
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,919
Speaker 3: idea for the United States to invade Greenland the way

56
00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 3: that President Trump was threatening to do. I think, you know,

57
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,240
Speaker 3: when you move into a place like Venezuela where you

58
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,079
Speaker 3: have an unjust situation, that's a different set of circumstances.

59
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 3: But why get involved in this. The Church's moral authority

60
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,360
Speaker 3: is not over things like this. This is something that

61
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 3: is better left to the political order. You express principles,

62
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,679
Speaker 3: but you don't encourage men and women who are in

63
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 3: active military service to disobey the commander in chief. Just

64
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,440
Speaker 3: it's bad for social order.

65
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 2: Father.

66
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 1: I want to get your take on there's particularly Archbishop

67
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 1: Broglio's comments about military obedience. He said, I'm obviously worried

68
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 1: because they the troops could be put in a situation

69
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 1: where they're being ordered to do something which is morally questionable.

70
00:03:58,960 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 2: End quote.

71
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,120
Speaker 1: Now, there isn't any situation where innocent lives are risked

72
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,960
Speaker 1: morally questionable. I mean, where's the line between legitimate moral

73
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 1: guidance and inserting yourself into prudential political judgments.

74
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 4: Well, no, that's a very good question, and I think

75
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 4: Bob's hit the right note. The matter is illegal orders,

76
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,400
Speaker 4: orders that violate the United States law, the Uniform Code

77
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,719
Speaker 4: of Military Justice, things that were instructed. I was a

78
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 4: Navy reserved chaplain for eleven years. We were taught in

79
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,799
Speaker 4: chaplain school that you do not obey illegal orders, which

80
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 4: means that the service member has to be aware of

81
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,600
Speaker 4: what the order is, understand if it's legal or illegal.

82
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 4: The presumption is they're legal, But then if there is

83
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,200
Speaker 4: something that's plainly illegal, then you go to your commanding

84
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,720
Speaker 4: office say this order is illegal, and this is the

85
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 4: reason why now I welcome arch Bishop Brolio's input on

86
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,760
Speaker 4: these questions, but I think it might have been better,

87
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,479
Speaker 4: number one, to do this in the form of a

88
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,040
Speaker 4: written document and not an interview. I think he was

89
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,480
Speaker 4: on the BBC, yes, and interviews are a little informal.

90
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 4: They don't give you the precision of language. And then secondly,

91
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,440
Speaker 4: no order has been issued, so it would be better

92
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,279
Speaker 4: to wait till an order is issued and then to

93
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,280
Speaker 4: make a comment in response to service members, you know,

94
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 4: asking him. And then I'll say another thing. Knowing Trump,

95
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 4: as we all do, this is a as it proved

96
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:20,359
Speaker 4: to be. It was a bluff.

97
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:21,799
Speaker 2: He was a bluffing tactic.

98
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a tactic he uses with everybody. He's going

99
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,360
Speaker 4: to tax, He's going to do it ninety percent tarify

100
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 4: on you. And then the next day he's saying, what

101
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,520
Speaker 4: a wonderful guy you are, you know, to whoever the

102
00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,680
Speaker 4: leader is. So, yeah, we should not create the impression

103
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 4: that Catholic service members cannot obey legitimate orders. He wasn't

104
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,159
Speaker 4: saying that, but you have to avoid even the impression

105
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,680
Speaker 4: of that, because again I don't think I never in

106
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,600
Speaker 4: my mind, Did I imagine that Trump is going to

107
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 4: order the US Marines to start shooting into the capital

108
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,920
Speaker 4: of NUK to kill police officers or soldiers in Greenlay,

109
00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 4: I don't think you ever intended that, So.

110
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 1: No, no, no, And he saw on Davos it was

111
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 1: as you said, it was a tactic. He got all

112
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 1: of NATO now to sign off on a plan to

113
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,159
Speaker 1: expand US military presence there, which was probably the objective

114
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,599
Speaker 1: in the initial movement, But the tariffs, the threat of

115
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,159
Speaker 1: military force, all of that was to soften up the

116
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,560
Speaker 1: target and get everybody to come to the table, which

117
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 1: apparently he did now, Archibisier BROLEI, I will say this,

118
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 1: he did raise his voice for religious exemptions during that

119
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,680
Speaker 1: whole COVID shot nightmare when troops were being required to

120
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 1: take COVID shots. He's usually very measured, which is why

121
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 1: this feels so out of character. Has he crossed the

122
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 1: line here?

123
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 2: Bob?

124
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,400
Speaker 3: Well, look, I mean in the kind of chaos and

125
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,320
Speaker 3: by the way, I agree this is Trump's modus operandi,

126
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 3: but I think in a situation like this this isn't

127
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,800
Speaker 3: the best modus operandi. Maybe good to be aggressive like

128
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 3: that in business in some other circumstances in these international affairs,

129
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,080
Speaker 3: where you're threatening to invade an alley, an ally with

130
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,920
Speaker 3: whom you have a treaty to protect them from outside invasion.

131
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,040
Speaker 3: I don't think this is a very good even feint

132
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 3: on the part of the President of the United States.

133
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,320
Speaker 3: But that said, I think again, what we want to

134
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 3: do is not give the impression, especially we're in a

135
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 3: moment of so much confusion, moral confusion, confusion over truth,

136
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 3: confusion over what the very nature of the American political

137
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 3: order is all about. I don't think we want to

138
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,200
Speaker 3: further weaken our trust in our institutions. And I think

139
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 3: that this could have been handled in a different way,

140
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,560
Speaker 3: maybe a formal statement, but even that I think I

141
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 3: would have held off on until we knew better what was.

142
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,000
Speaker 1: Well right, what the actual order in question was, not

143
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,520
Speaker 1: imagining what it might be. And Father Archbidge of Bolio

144
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 1: also condemned the targeting of those Venezuelan drug ships Okay,

145
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,640
Speaker 1: where the Trump administration has been using drones to take

146
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: down these drug vessels.

147
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,679
Speaker 2: He said this the end never justify the means.

148
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,040
Speaker 1: He said the US military should have intercepted those ships

149
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 1: and arrested those on board your reaction to.

150
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,080
Speaker 4: This, Well, I mean this has to do with a

151
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 4: political decision made by the United States government which declared

152
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:21,040
Speaker 4: that the drug cartels are terrorist organizations. The terrorists, the

153
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,920
Speaker 4: organizations know that they're designated as such, and they know

154
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 4: that the US policy is to attack and kill terrorists

155
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,080
Speaker 4: when they have them in sight and when they're able

156
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 4: to do that. That's what we just didn't We did

157
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 4: with ISIS leader in Syria recently. We didn't try to

158
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,240
Speaker 4: capture them. Now there's a debate for people to enter

159
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,960
Speaker 4: into which is a drug somebody selling drugs the United

160
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,320
Speaker 4: States that an active terrorism. The United States government thinks

161
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 4: it is, and I'm sure there are other governments which

162
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 4: would agree. So to attack a target that knows their

163
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,880
Speaker 4: subject to attack and still engages in the behavior that's

164
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 4: on them, that they continue that behavior at the risk

165
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 4: of being killed. And by the way, it's you know,

166
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 4: the idea that we can capture every target and we

167
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,160
Speaker 4: don't have to attack them. The United States decides, no,

168
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,560
Speaker 4: this is the equivalent of a warfare activity. So we're

169
00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,839
Speaker 4: going to neutralize the enemy. If the enemy surrenders, then

170
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 4: they should be of course seized. But if they're crossing

171
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,320
Speaker 4: the sea at a high speed with a boat that

172
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 4: probably has weapons on it. It's a legitimate target as

173
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 4: far as I know.

174
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,439
Speaker 1: I want to tell you about ave Maria Mutual Funds.

175
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,319
Speaker 1: Ave Maria isn't just about investing, It's about living your values.

176
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 1: As someone who cares deeply about faith and family, and

177
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,920
Speaker 1: as an ave Maria investor myself, for years, I've always

178
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 1: believed where we put our money matters. Working with ave

179
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 1: Maria Mutual Funds has shown me you don't have to

180
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 1: compromise your principles to achieve financial success. Their team ensures

181
00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,200
Speaker 1: every investment reflects Catholic teaching, and that gives me me

182
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 1: peace of mind. For me, it's not just about returns.

183
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,199
Speaker 1: It's about integrity, purpose and making a difference. That's why

184
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm proud to stand with ave Maria Mutual Funds. Learn

185
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 1: more at Avemaria Funds dot com, slash Raymond. That's Avemaria

186
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,679
Speaker 1: Funds dot com slash Raymond. All mutual funds are subject

187
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 1: to market risk, including possible loss of principle, Request of perspectives,

188
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:33,800
Speaker 1: which includes investment objectives, risks, fees, charges and expenses, and

189
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 1: other information that you should read and consider carefully before investing.

190
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,840
Speaker 1: You can get the prospectives by calling eight sixty six

191
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: two eight three six two seven four, or you can

192
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:51,160
Speaker 1: view it at Avemaria Funds dot com. Avemiria Mutual Funds

193
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,280
Speaker 1: are distributed by Ultimus Funds Distributors, LLC. The United States

194
00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,440
Speaker 1: government has proclaimed these these cartel groups that are moving

195
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,839
Speaker 1: illicit drugs into the United States fentanyl. The only end

196
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,720
Speaker 1: of that is death of American citizens. So that's why

197
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 1: they've labeled them such. And I feel if the archbishop

198
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,320
Speaker 1: or the bishops have a problem with that, go to

199
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,120
Speaker 1: the appropriate authorities, go to Congress, go to the White House,

200
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,600
Speaker 1: and get the designation changed. But kind of throwing rocks

201
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,560
Speaker 1: from the sidelines, this is way outside of their purview though.

202
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,680
Speaker 1: That's and let's move to another group who I think

203
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,319
Speaker 1: also maybe exceeding their terrorism.

204
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 2: I'll let you away.

205
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,640
Speaker 1: And Cardinals Blaze Supitch of Chicago, Robert McElroy of Washington,

206
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 1: and Joseph Tobin of Newark. This week, three of the

207
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 1: most progressive cardinals in the country issued a joint statement

208
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 1: claiming America has entered the most profound and searing debate

209
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 1: about the moral foundations of America's actions in the world

210
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,120
Speaker 1: since the end of the Cold War end quote. These

211
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 1: three didn't mention Trump by name, but they did cite Venezuela, Greenland,

212
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 1: and cuts to foreign aid as evidence that a diplomacy

213
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 1: based on four has replaced dialogue. They say war is

214
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,600
Speaker 1: back in vogue, which as we know, was lifted directly

215
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 1: from Pope Leo's speech to Vatican diplomats recently.

216
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 2: Father, what's really happening here?

217
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 4: Well, again, I have no problem with churchmen expressing moral

218
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 4: suasion or tempting to suade people on moral grounds about

219
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,080
Speaker 4: them about the morality of actions of the government. What

220
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,280
Speaker 4: that being said, I would say, what have they chosen subjects?

221
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,079
Speaker 4: And then what subjects didn't they choose? Because these three

222
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,760
Speaker 4: cardinals has marked thees and printed pointed out in a

223
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,599
Speaker 4: recent article they were silent about Joe Biden's abortion advocacy

224
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 4: and the fact that he did everything he could to

225
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 4: promote abortion right up to the point of birth as

226
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 4: president of the United States. So the moral indignation if

227
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,840
Speaker 4: you want to talk about challenging the foundations of our country,

228
00:12:54,440 --> 00:13:00,120
Speaker 4: the killing of unborn, innocent human beings by legitimate by

229
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,680
Speaker 4: the government legalizing it and paying for it in many cases,

230
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,840
Speaker 4: that is the real moral issue at stake here. So

231
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,720
Speaker 4: I would say, choose your topics according to what is

232
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,600
Speaker 4: really harmful to the moral order, and as regards these

233
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,160
Speaker 4: other things. Look, it's debatable. These are political issues. Should

234
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 4: we give foreign aid or not, should we give it

235
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,800
Speaker 4: to this country or other countries. You know, I have

236
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 4: my opinions on to so do you. But there's no

237
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,680
Speaker 4: moral arguments that if we cut off foreign aid we're

238
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,319
Speaker 4: doing something wrong. That may or may not be the case.

239
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,640
Speaker 1: Well, the argument to be made is, hey, Catholic people,

240
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,720
Speaker 1: we believe you need to support our brothers and sisters

241
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,960
Speaker 1: here or here. We're going to have the Rice Bull

242
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 1: Mission this Sunday at Mass. That's an appropriate reaction. But

243
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,080
Speaker 1: to say the government has to provide aid to who

244
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 1: bishops think they should, this is absurd.

245
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,400
Speaker 2: I mean, Bob James Carville is on a Royal.

246
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,400
Speaker 1: Grande next week, the Democratic Consultant, and we were talking

247
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,480
Speaker 1: the other day and he's said, the center of the

248
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: Trump resistance now is at the Vatican. Bob, Cardinal Soupitch said,

249
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 1: and I'm going to quote this, as pastors entrusted with

250
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,720
Speaker 1: the teaching of our people, we cannot stand by while

251
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:20,320
Speaker 1: decisions are made that condemn millions to lives trapped permanently at.

252
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 2: The edge of existence. End quote.

253
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,760
Speaker 1: Maybe they're talking there about Venezuela, where the US has

254
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 1: helped remove one of the most brutal dictators in the

255
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 1: Western hemisphere. What teaching exactly are these cardinals relying on

256
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 1: in this argument?

257
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 3: Do you think, Bob, Well, they've couched it in terms

258
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,200
Speaker 3: of respect for life. And actually they do mention abortion

259
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,600
Speaker 3: in euthanasia in that statement, and they kind of look

260
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 3: at it as you know, the old phrases, the seamless garment.

261
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,080
Speaker 3: I suppose it is what it is. But look, you know,

262
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 3: let me back up just a couple of steps. When

263
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 3: three cardinals get together like this, we are very clearly

264
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 3: a minority among the American bish. They give the impression

265
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 3: that the American bishops are saying this. None of the

266
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,760
Speaker 3: three occupy a position in the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

267
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 3: Some of them have actually been nominated, but the other

268
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 3: bishops have not voted to confirm them in those positions.

269
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 3: So these are very much personal views about what is

270
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 3: going on in the world now. You know, as we said,

271
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 3: President Trump, as a way of creating turboil and making

272
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,760
Speaker 3: things move, And in some instances that's quite good. But

273
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 3: I think that one of the things that the Vatican

274
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 3: and maybe these three prelates have not sufficiently taken into

275
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,640
Speaker 3: account at this point is the world order is changing.

276
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 3: That the post World War two system in which we existed,

277
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,760
Speaker 3: which held the peace for a long time, but it

278
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:52,040
Speaker 3: is changing because of immigration questions and threats, and frankly,

279
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 3: the United States being thirty five trillion dollars in debt

280
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,880
Speaker 3: as a result of the way that we've kind of

281
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,120
Speaker 3: spread money around for the last sixty or seven the

282
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 3: years trying to establish a certain order. Now, some of

283
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 3: the ways that we've done that have been quite good.

284
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,480
Speaker 3: And when we brought Europe back, it's one of the

285
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 3: very few things happened in the history of the world

286
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,440
Speaker 3: that one country brings back a whole continent after it's

287
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 3: been destroyed by war. Some of our aid programs, I

288
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,200
Speaker 3: wouldn't say all of them, but I would say some

289
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 3: of our aid programs have been really much more dedicated

290
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 3: to the kind of promotion of a woke attitude that

291
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 3: even I used to travel a lot to the Middle East,

292
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,800
Speaker 3: and I would see rainbow of pride flags hanging from

293
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,200
Speaker 3: an embassy, you know, in the capital of Jordan. I mean,

294
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 3: a lot of the US AID was tied to this

295
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 3: kind of elite, globalist vision of the world, and I'm

296
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 3: grateful that that has changed. But at the same time,

297
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 3: I think that because the international order is changing, we

298
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 3: better get used to the idea that we're not going

299
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 3: to just be able to rely on things that the

300
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 3: way they used to be. And I think Trump has

301
00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 3: noticed that. He doesn't always respond to it in the

302
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,200
Speaker 3: best way, to be sure, but I think our church

303
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,480
Speaker 3: has to recognize the new moment that we're in as well.

304
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 1: Cardinal McElroy father told the Associated Press that most of

305
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,919
Speaker 1: the United States and the world are adrift morally in

306
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 1: terms of foreign policy. Now, Father, is there a danger

307
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,919
Speaker 1: here where you have clerics trying to prescribe foreign policy?

308
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,880
Speaker 1: And may I ask where were the three cardinals' moral

309
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,960
Speaker 1: voices visa the China or Nigeria. Suddenly they're mute when

310
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,600
Speaker 1: it concerns Catholics being slaughtered or persecute it.

311
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,480
Speaker 2: But now we're weighing in on foreign policy.

312
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 4: Well, I haven't seen that statement, but such a broad

313
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,359
Speaker 4: comment has little significance in the real order, because what

314
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,920
Speaker 4: is foreign policy? You know, foreign policy has a lot

315
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 4: of different aspects. You have military policy, economic policy, cultural

316
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 4: developmental policy, which one's against, are for you, And I'll

317
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 4: go back to Bob. I agree. I'm very happy some

318
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 4: of these woke programs are gone. I think it's embarrassing

319
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,920
Speaker 4: when we go to an Arab country and have gay

320
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 4: flags flying in our embassies.

321
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 2: I do, on the other.

322
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 4: End, regret when poverty programs in Africa to feed the

323
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,400
Speaker 4: poor and put wells into you know, drought district Those

324
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 4: should continue, and my understanding is the administration is working

325
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,719
Speaker 4: to get that going again. But yeah, the idea that

326
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 4: all of our foreign policy is a drift, that's just

327
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 4: a slam on the whole administration. I never heard those

328
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 4: words said during the Biden administration. So, you know, if

329
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 4: you want to talk about the policy of the United States,

330
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,719
Speaker 4: be specific and based on gospel and Catholic teaching points,

331
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 4: not just where a drift because things are changing and

332
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 4: I don't like where they're going.

333
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 2: Well, Bob and Father, I'll let you both crack on

334
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 2: this one.

335
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: According to reports, the three cardinals were inspired to write

336
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 1: this statement after attending the recent consistory in Rome that

337
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 1: we covered. They heard from fellow cardinals, they say, who

338
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,479
Speaker 1: expressed alarm about the US US action in Venezuela, the

339
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 1: cutting off of foreign aid, and the threats to acquire Greenland.

340
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 1: So foreign cardinals are alarmed, and our American cardinals dutifully

341
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: amplify this alarm. Cardinal super Cheven admitted that he wanted

342
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 1: to piggyback on Pope Leo's words, and according to the

343
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,439
Speaker 1: spokesman of the USCCB, the US bishops were consulted on

344
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: the statement. Paul Cokeley, the president of the Bishop's Conference,

345
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 1: said he supports the emphasis placed by the cardinals on

346
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 1: Pope Leo's teaching in these times end quote. Is this

347
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 1: credible or are they using the general teaching of Leo

348
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 1: as a fig leaf to cover partisan positions?

349
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 3: Bob, Well, Look, the Church is always going to come

350
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 3: out in favor of peace of dialogue, and of course

351
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 3: Pope Leo has done that as well. But I think

352
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 3: he has been a little bit more nuanced. And when

353
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 3: the fact that although oh he is an American, there's

354
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 3: a difference between an American who spent a lot of

355
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 3: time in Latin America talking in general terms about the

356
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 3: state of the world, and three American cardinals talking about this,

357
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,239
Speaker 3: and I'm sure if those three had spoken to some

358
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 3: other bishops here in the United States and some other

359
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 3: bishops at Rome, and the cardinals gathered in that consistory,

360
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 3: they also heard other things said. Now you know, we

361
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 3: know that Leo actually put out something quite new in

362
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 3: his addressed to the diplomatic course of the back and

363
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 3: where he talked about how the way that a kind

364
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 3: of Orwelian language has now entered into the way that

365
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 3: we discuss things, and the way that freedom is the

366
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 3: scope of freedom in the world is narrowing. I think

367
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 3: that's another part of the conversation that needs to be

368
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 3: held here. And look, I want to say this, I've

369
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 3: said I think I've said this before on the show,

370
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,239
Speaker 3: but if you travel abroad, a lot most people are

371
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 3: nervous about the United States in general because they know

372
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 3: that we are the sole superpower in the world at

373
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 3: this point. Even during the Cold War, they were worried

374
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 3: about that. Not that they were opposed to our seeking

375
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 3: to restrain the Soviet Union, but they just know that

376
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 3: we are not going to be restrained by a lot

377
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 3: of opinions elsewhere that when it comes right down to it,

378
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 3: we have to make the decisions for ourselves and actually

379
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 3: for the whole world. So the United States is in

380
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 3: a sensitive position in which it has to adopt a

381
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,959
Speaker 3: more aggressive stance than the rest of the world. I mean,

382
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 3: we can pretend that we don't use force when we

383
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 3: need to, but look, you look back at President Obama,

384
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 3: and the President Obama had his own assassination squads that

385
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: went out there and took out people. I mean, it

386
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,919
Speaker 3: was a big list. It wasn't just walking in and

387
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 3: taking out Maduro. It just so happens that Maduro is

388
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: closer to our own country, and it was a case

389
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: in which a lot of people were nervous about the

390
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 3: president doing it. So, look, this is a much more

391
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,959
Speaker 3: complicated thing that I think that the church is going

392
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,360
Speaker 3: to have to debate about. I hope that Pope Leo

393
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 3: is going to be hearing from different voices other than

394
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 3: the three that we're talking about right now, because there's

395
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: a there's an opportunity here for the church to talk

396
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 3: about these things in moral and religious terms. But I

397
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 3: think also that opportunity has to be better informed than

398
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 3: it has been in the past father.

399
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: NBC reports that this is the second time in as

400
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: many months that members of the.

401
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 2: US hierarchy, the Catholic hierarchy.

402
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: Have asserted their voice against the Trump administration. In November,

403
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: the entire US Conference of Catholic Bishops, we reported this

404
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: condemned the deportations of illegal immigrants. They called it the

405
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: vilification of migrants. So there seems to be a pattern here.

406
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: Does all of this risk the appearance of a coordinated

407
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: partisan resistance to the Trump administration?

408
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 4: Well, on certain issues it is a resistance. I mean,

409
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,239
Speaker 4: we just have to face that, and that's, you know,

410
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 4: the wisdom of it. We can debate. Certainly, I favor

411
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 4: that law enforcement be viewed positively by the hierarchy, because

412
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 4: the laws of the United States are just laws for

413
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 4: the most part, and they're applied justly. Now there will

414
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 4: be debates about, you know, is it fair to remove

415
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 4: an illegal alien who has no criminal record, And the

416
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 4: answer is, if the illegal alien is here and overstays

417
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 4: a visa or entered illegally and it is here, then

418
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 4: the law says that person should go. And that's you know,

419
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 4: that's just the way it is. If you don't like it,

420
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 4: you have to lobby. And that's what I would say

421
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 4: on the you know, on the broader question here is

422
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 4: does the trumpet? Has the Trump administration done things that

423
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 4: the Catholic Church is happy about? And the answer is absolutely,

424
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 4: because it's a pro life administration. Trump is appointed pro

425
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 4: life justices of the Supreme Court. The horror of Roe v.

426
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 4: Wade was overturned. We have to thank God for that,

427
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 4: and President Trump had a role in that, and crucier

428
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 4: role in accomplishing that. So we have to recognize this.

429
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 4: As with any administration, there'll be things you like and

430
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 4: you don't like, and you have to prioritize them. But

431
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 4: certainly opposition to abortion has to be the number one

432
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 4: priority because we're killing millions of children in our country

433
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 4: over these decades. We're not killing millions of immigrants. We're

434
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 4: killing children. That's the country. That's a national shame that

435
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 4: has to be done away.

436
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: With, Bob very quickly.

437
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: Have these church leaders waited too deeply into concerns, political

438
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: concerns that exceeds their charism?

439
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 3: Well, I suppose the easy answer is yes, because there's

440
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 3: no privilege perspective that churchmen have on political issues. And

441
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 3: I agree entirely with you and father that the way

442
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 3: you deal with these political issues is you work these

443
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 3: things out through the political process. What you're trying to

444
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 3: do is at least in the case of Archbishop Brolia,

445
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 3: where you're kind of going over the head of the

446
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 3: commander in chief. Again, I want to repeat that they

447
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 3: were in a mo moment of great fragility about the

448
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 3: nature of the American order, and so we want to

449
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: be very careful about what we say about the authority

450
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: of political figures to make certain decisions. I mean, after all,

451
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: these people are empowered by the vote of the American

452
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 3: people to do certain things. And look, we know that

453
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: the way that some of these unfortunate things have played out,

454
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: that poor women who was shut in Minneapolis, I mean,

455
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 3: they give the law enforcement question a bad It looks

456
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 3: bad when these sort of things happen. But look, if

457
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 3: you're stopping police, if you're stopping people who are duly

458
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: ordered to be officers of the government and enforcing order

459
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: and taking out criminals from the society, and you prevent that,

460
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: if you're stepping in the way of law enforcement, by

461
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 3: what right are you allowed to do this? I mean,

462
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: you can protest it certainly, but stopping them from carrying

463
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: out what they've been duly constitute to do. You know,

464
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 3: we're in a circumstance here where people think that everybody

465
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: thinks that they're a magisterium, right, they are political authorities.

466
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: That has to be sorted out.

467
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and these are prudential judgments.

468
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: And that's what I think so many Catholics I anguish

469
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: over because you've got bishops coming out and pronouncing these ideas,

470
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: opinions in some cases.

471
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: About foreign policy, immigration policy.

472
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: These are prudential judgments and with all due respect, we

473
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: can take the bishop's opinion or we can leave the

474
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: bishop's opinion. It's, you know, on these questions, on these

475
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: questions not moral teaching. But this isn't moral teaching in

476
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: every instance.

477
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 2: This is policy.

478
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: Does a touch on moral teaching, absolutely, but go educate

479
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: the people who are in the repeuse they can go

480
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: vote and change that order for the better the common good.

481
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: Before we leave this international topic, President Trump is convening

482
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 1: what he calls a Board for Peace or of Peace

483
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: for Gaza. This would be a group of nations assembled

484
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: to try to create some order there in Gaza.

485
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: He's invited the Vatican to join that board.

486
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: The Holy See Secretary of State, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, said

487
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: they're considering it, but he added that quote tensions between

488
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: the US and Europe are not healthy and creates a

489
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: climate that aggravates the international order. Father, just as a reminder,

490
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: this is a man who created the secret Vatican China Accord.

491
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 2: Now do China, your.

492
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 4: Eminence, Yes, I hope that the Holy See does not

493
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 4: join that board because the Holy See has resisted acquiring

494
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 4: all of the responsibilities in the international realm of nation states,

495
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 4: including the use of military force, you know, by purpose.

496
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 4: On that purpose, the Holy See is not a member

497
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 4: state in the UN because they don't want to. They

498
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: said clearly, we do not want to be a member

499
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: state here because we don't want to have to vote

500
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 4: on warfare. So, yeah, I don't think the Holy Sea

501
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 4: will do that.

502
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

503
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 4: Again, the great, great scandal that the Catholic which is

504
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 4: living is the fact that Catholics in China are being

505
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 4: persecuted by a government with which we have an agreement

506
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 4: in which that government nominates in and effects names the

507
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 4: bishops who run that church. Now in the name of

508
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 4: the Chinese Communist Party, we have a Catholic layman in jail,

509
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: seventy eight year old Jimmy Lai. The Holy See has

510
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 4: not uttered that. I've heard one public word asking for

511
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 4: his release. Now, maybe they're doing it behind the scenes,

512
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: and I would credit them if they do. Of course,

513
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 4: we don't know, but I think it deserves a little

514
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 4: public outcry that a man who simply signed a protest

515
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 4: letter or showed up at a rally is now facing

516
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 4: life imprisonment because of a subverted justice system in Hong

517
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: Kong which the communist government stepped on and violated their

518
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 4: own agreement with the British. That's an international scandal.

519
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: Right, and we never hear that critique.

520
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine, imagine if Donald Trump were choosing bishops

521
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: in the United States. Just fathom that for a moment.

522
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: It's inconceivable. But if he were, you can imagine the

523
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: world and global outcry. But China does it, nobody says

524
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: a word, and the Vatican facilitated it and signed the deal.

525
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: It's just mind boggling to me. Anyway, I want to

526
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: talk about Bishop Robert barn Bob. He said this week

527
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: that ICE should focus on serious criminals and that protesters

528
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: should cease interfering with law enforcement. My guess is he's

529
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: referring to that invasion of a church last weekend where

530
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: we saw protesters going into a church service and protesting it.

531
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: Your thoughts on this and who gets to define what

532
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: a serious criminal.

533
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 3: Is, Well, look, obviously law enforcement has got to do

534
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: that because they're the ones that have the greatest information

535
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 3: about who these people are, and as I understand it,

536
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: that's primarily what they've been trying to do, not only

537
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: in Minneapolis, but around the country as a whole. Yeah,

538
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: I mean, this is another example of this where everybody

539
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: sort of thinks now that they're you know, they're free

540
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 3: to do whatever ever they want. I mean, you can

541
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: protest in Minneapolis, you can stand on the sidewalk and

542
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: protest what ICE is actually doing. But if you're going

543
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 3: to interfere with a law enforcement agency, you've just put

544
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: yourself in peril. The circumstances and terrible tragedies can occur,

545
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: as did happen in that case in Minneapolis. And look,

546
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: people going into a place of worship because they think

547
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: that the pastor or the priest who's there has somehow

548
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: been cooperating with ICE and thinking therefore they have a

549
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 3: right to invade a private space a place of worship.

550
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 3: I mean, since when in the whole history of the

551
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 3: United States is this suddenly that is considered legal to

552
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: begin with? But even desirable? Do we want to have

553
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 3: conservatives disrupting liberal congregations because they don't like what the

554
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: liberals are saying about Donald Trump? I mean, the whole

555
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: social order in which we live depends on respecting certain boundaries.

556
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: And you know, we're seeing here in Washington, I live

557
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: outside of Walk, Washington, that some members of the Trump

558
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: administration are being protested at their homes. Well, I mean

559
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 3: this is kind of a similar thing. Well, look, you've

560
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: got your kids there, your wife, maybe the grandparents are

561
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: coming to visit, friends are there. You want to go

562
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: down and protest in front front of an office? Why

563
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: do you need to protest in front of somebody's home.

564
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

565
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: No, I think we're at the point where we really

566
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: need to take a step back and recognize that our society.

567
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: And I think Bishop Baron has kind of he stated

568
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: the principle, and let's hope that some people take it

569
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: to heart and actually say, Okay, this is a compromise

570
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 3: that we can.

571
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: All agree with. Well, it's amazing to me.

572
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: Months after a church in Minneapolis, a Catholic church, was

573
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: shot up. You remember that lunatic was shot into the

574
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: church during mass in the same city. You would stage

575
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: something like this to again terrorize worshippers.

576
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: What are you doing?

577
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: It's not only illegal, it's uncivil, and I'm glad they're

578
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: prosecuting them or at least looking into who's to blame here,

579
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: because that kind of activity absolutely should star. Father Pope

580
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: Leo has named nineteen new consultors advisors, if you will,

581
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: to various Vatican officers. Now, when I think consultant to

582
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: the Vatican, I imagine theologians or canon lawyers, maybe holy

583
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: religious sisters. But among these appointments a promoter of religious

584
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: pluralism and yoga, a woman from a Boston college, a

585
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: pro pacha mama theologian. This is a Sophia nikolasa Chipanya,

586
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: he said, from Bolivia, and at least one vocal advocate

587
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: for women's ordination, a sineddelegate, Sister Mary Teresa Barron. Father,

588
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: what message do these appointments send, not only to Catholics,

589
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: but to the world who's watching the church.

590
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 4: It's not a good message. I think The message here

591
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: is that being a devout Catholic who believes in the

592
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 4: doctrine of the faith is not the primary or even

593
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 4: requisite a condition for being named to a Vatican panel.

594
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 4: And I think that's a terrible era. It's sad to

595
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 4: say this began under post Francis. I mean, he was

596
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 4: naming people. Many of these people were already associated with

597
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 4: the Vatican. That's why they were given this further nomination.

598
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 4: I suppose because they were known quantities. But no, I mean,

599
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 4: what use is it to have on a Vatican panel

600
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 4: someone who contradicts Catholic teaching. It's not useful. It gives

601
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: the impression that we're not serious about our teaching. You know,

602
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 4: the vegetarians the United States don't have people from the

603
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 4: meat packers and the Cattleman's Association at the vegetarian board,

604
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 4: so we should be similarly serious.

605
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: Bob, does this harken the return of patro Mama idols?

606
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean, why do you need a patro mama theologian

607
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: on advising anybody?

608
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: Well, they've been appointed to the as. I understand that

609
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: the inter Religious Commission that the Vatican is established, So

610
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: maybe it's a little cynical to say this, but they

611
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: can probably do less damage there than waiting various other

612
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: offices worship in Rome. But I think, you know, I mean,

613
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: there's this. You can imagine what's going to happen if

614
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: somebody who's promoting women's ordination has to have a dialogue

615
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: with somebody from Islam. I mean, if they're gonna be

616
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 3: honest about this, they're going to confront some things that

617
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 3: are probably going to surprise them. But you know, of course,

618
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: look that the Pacha Mama thing is so egregious. I

619
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 3: don't know if Pope Leo was involved in these appointments

620
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 3: are not, but it's clear that somewhere in the bloodstream

621
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: of the Vatican figures like this. And let us just

622
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: simply say that there are immense numbers of faithful Catholics,

623
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: people who are accomplished. Boston Colleges is infamous in certain

624
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 3: circles for being a place where heterodox Catholicism has found

625
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 3: a place in the theology department, But there are many

626
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: others that you could draw on who would be both

627
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 3: sensitive to you know, the differences in religion, would engage

628
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 3: people very well, and at the same time they're faithful

629
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: to the Catholic tradition. Why turned to that group of

630
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: people even for a relativetively out of the way Commission

631
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: on Ecumenical Affairs.

632
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, on what one hopes is a more pleasant development

633
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: of Pope Leo recently met with leaders of the priestly

634
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: Fraternity of Saint Peter regarding the traditional Latin Mass. Now, Father,

635
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: there's been speculation that this signals a softening of the

636
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: restrictions that came down under Pope Francis.

637
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: What your read on this meeting.

638
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad that it happened. Now, for background, this

639
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 4: was requested by the Fraternity of Saint Peter, and I'm

640
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 4: so glad that the Pope graciously accepted to meet with them.

641
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 4: Number Two, they're currently under a visitation by the Congregation

642
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 4: for Religious that started under Pope Francis and has yet

643
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 4: to be concluded. And as we remember a lot of

644
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 4: those visitations were targeted towards or conservative Orthodox religious congregations,

645
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 4: So perhaps they want to discuss that with the Pope. Certainly,

646
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 4: it's for me one of the great signs in Pope

647
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 4: Leo's pontific It is the fact that people are getting

648
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 4: in and getting a chance to you know, present their

649
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: case to the Pope. Bishop Schneider Athlantia. Schneider was seen

650
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 4: went to see the Pope. We know that Cardinal Burke

651
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: went to see the Pope. Cardinal Sarah has been to,

652
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 4: in other words, people that we have a lot of

653
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 4: confidence in because they've demonstrated their orthodoxy and their total

654
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 4: dedication to the church. They're getting a chance to be

655
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 4: heard by the Pope. That's all to the good. Now,

656
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 4: where this goes with the Latin Mass, that's a good question,

657
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 4: because of course we had Cardinal Roach's intervention at the

658
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: recent Consistory, which is basically an effort to say it's

659
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 4: time to shut the Latin Mass down. Pope Leo has

660
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 4: not said anything of that sort. Let's see where this goes.

661
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 4: But it's always encouraging when the Pope is willing to

662
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: listen to people who are really under assault from other

663
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 4: institutions in the church.

664
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: Bob. Two prominent cardinals father just mentioned.

665
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: One of them commented on the recent consistory, Cardinal Joseph

666
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: Zen and Cardinal Raymond Burke. They both offered assessments they

667
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: weren't exactly glowing. Cardinal Burke was more worried about the

668
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: workload on the Pope. Cardinal Zen said, quote, I lean

669
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: toward conspiracy theory. Suspected that the meeting was hijacked by

670
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: Pope Francis. As boys, they did everything they could to

671
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: prevent the cardinals from expressing their opinions. Isn't this the

672
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: exact opposite of the purpose for which Pope Leo called

673
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: the consistory end quote? He complimented Leo as a good listener.

674
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: But Bob, what do you make of their concerns about

675
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: the discussions at this consistory?

676
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they both agreed with Cardinal Burke and

677
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 3: Cardinal Zen, And I want to say also, I mean,

678
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 3: these are two very solid men. They've paid a price

679
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: for being faithful and cardinals in of course, in the

680
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 3: very difficult circumstances in China. But I think they both

681
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 3: were grateful that Leo began this process. I think that

682
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: they agreed that the format was a problem because the

683
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: format is very much a holdover from the Sonadyl method,

684
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: where they sit around in tables and it looks like,

685
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: you know, it's a wedding reception or you know, something

686
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 3: like that. It's hardly the kind of place where you

687
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 3: can dig down and study something, and Cardinal Burk says

688
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 3: something that I found very disturbing, and that is that

689
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 3: there was a I think there was an email or

690
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: at least a memo sent out to all the cardinals

691
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 3: that there would be four different topics discussed, and when

692
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 3: they actually sat down, several of them had not actually

693
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: received that message, so they didn't even know when they

694
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: came in what they were going to be discussing. And

695
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: he said, and I think that he's probably right about

696
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: this remembers the old form of these sinoates, where you

697
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 3: pick one topic and so everybody can get together and

698
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 3: study that one topic, even if it's over only two days.

699
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: But we're going to have three and four days in

700
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 3: the forthcoming consistories that we're going to see, and I

701
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 3: think they need to get away from this format that

702
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 3: has left us from the sinos, where you know, there's

703
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 3: just this swirling round of conversation and very little kind

704
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 3: of public debate about a topic. In a way, it's

705
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: better to Burke even said that he had wished that

706
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 3: the Pope had not wasted time asking for a vote

707
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 3: on those four topics, that it would have been better

708
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: for him to pick two and to be able to

709
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 3: focus on something that the cardinals has a body could

710
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 3: deal with.

711
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: Well, we said it last week. This is controlled speech.

712
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: This is an odd way to proceed when you finally

713
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: bring cardinals together after years and years of not really

714
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: being together or spending time listening or hearing each other.

715
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: They talk about Sonadal. There's nothing sonodal and Bob, I

716
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: don't know what kind of waydding receptions you've been going to.

717
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: This is like a rundown bingo hall, not a wedding

718
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: reception of that.

719
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: But those little tables.

720
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: But here's a big story that didn't get enough attention

721
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: this week. The patriarchs and heads of ancient churches in

722
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: the Holy Land issued a statement on January seventeenth denouncing

723
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: what they call Christian Zionism. They call it damaging ideology,

724
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 1: and the group consists of Catholic, Orthodox Protestant bishops in Jerusalem,

725
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: including the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Cardinal Pierre Battiste Pizzabala.

726
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: Here's what they said.

727
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: Recent activities undertaken by local individuals who advanced damaging ideologies

728
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: such as Christian Zionism, mislead the public, so confusion and

729
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: harm the unity of our flock. These undertakings have found

730
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: favor among certain political actors in Jerusalem and beyond who

731
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: seek to push a political agenda which may harm the

732
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: Christian presence in the Holy Land and.

733
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: The wider Middle East.

734
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: Father for those who don't follow these debates closely, and Bob,

735
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: you can also chime in on this. What exactly is

736
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: Christian Zionism and why are these Eastern patriarchs finding it

737
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: so dangerous?

738
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not that versed in it, Raymond al Hazard

739
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 4: the guests subject to correction by YouTube gens. Christian Zionism

740
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 4: is this notion that it's largely a Protestant theory among

741
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 4: Protestants that the state of Israel and the Zionist movement

742
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 4: is a fulfillment of God's will, and therefore all Christians

743
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: have to support that. And I would say the Catholic

744
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 4: Church doesn't teach that, so therefore I don't have to

745
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: support that as a Catholic, and the Orthodox don't teach

746
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 4: that either. But Protestants are free to choose what they

747
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 4: want to do because they have private interpretation of the scriptures.

748
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 4: What I will say is, I should not be the

749
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: policy of the United States government. I don't think it is.

750
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 4: But we don't justify our support for the State of

751
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 4: Israel on the basis of a Christian zie in this theory.

752
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 4: That's not what we do. And I remember, going back

753
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,959
Speaker 4: to Jimmy Carter, some things like this had been said

754
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 4: in the past. We have to say we support it's

755
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 4: in our national interests and it's for the common good

756
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 4: of humanity that the state of Israel was established, and

757
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 4: that the State of Israel be allowed to continue as

758
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 4: a democracy and not be subject to violence from people

759
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 4: like Iran and other enemies.

760
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 3: So and for.

761
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 4: The patriarchs to get together and speak, that's always a

762
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 4: good idea because the patriarchs want to be united on

763
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,479
Speaker 4: some issues that are of common concern to them because

764
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 4: it has ramifications for their work.

765
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it impacts the Christians, the Christians in the

766
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: Holy Land, which have been greatly depleted and run off

767
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: because of the pressure they feel squeezed between the you know,

768
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: the Israelis on one side and the Islamic Palestinians on

769
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: the other. And meanwhile you've got this group of Christians

770
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: that are just vanishing.

771
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is largely an evangelical phenomenon, As

772
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 3: his father was saying, and if I can us add

773
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 3: one thing, I think that what the major contention here

774
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 3: is that the land that is promised at one point

775
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 3: in the Old Testament, yes, Israel is in perpetuity. Yes,

776
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: And that's the thing that that's you know, at least

777
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 3: some Zionists in Israel claim supports what they believe their

778
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 3: right to occupy that land. Now, I think that has

779
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 3: to be considered. I think Father is entirely right. That's

780
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 3: not the teaching of our church in any event, but

781
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: it's out there, and by the way, it's controversial even

782
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 3: among Israelis Jewish Israelis. We've criticized some of our pilots

783
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 3: for going outside of their proper authority. But I'm disappointed

784
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 3: that Mike Huckabee, who's our US ambassador to Israel, has

785
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 3: come out in defense of Christian Zionists. I just don't

786
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 3: think Again, look, he's an American official. It's not his responsibility.

787
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 3: It's and it's in fact, I think something he shouldn't

788
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: do to come out and get involved in a debate

789
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: that is not sanctioned by the US government or by

790
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 3: the State Department to defend Christians Zionists. Look, somebody else

791
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 3: can do that. Mike can do that in his private time,

792
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 3: but as the ambassador to Israel, he should not step

793
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: in on what is for some people a religious debate.

794
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 3: So we know that everything that involves Israel and the

795
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: Arabs in the Middle East is contested. I have seen,

796
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 3: I've been speaking at conferences in Jerusalem where the Jews,

797
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,959
Speaker 3: liberal and conservative Jews are attacking each other in ways

798
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 3: that I thought only Arabs and Jews attacked one another.

799
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 3: So it's a contested part of the world. But our role,

800
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 3: at least in the United States is not to become

801
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 3: too involved and not to let that play out the

802
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 3: way that it's supposed to be. And I don't think

803
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: that even in secular terms, there's going to be much

804
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 3: support for whatever the Old Testament has to say about

805
00:44:59,080 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 3: what the borders of.

806
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: Your I want to move on to Munich, Germany. A

807
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: carnival mass was celebrated there. You heard that, right, carnival clowns, confetti.

808
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: Take a look at that. I'll just show it to you, father.

809
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: I almost don't know what to ask here. I mean,

810
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: how does this even happen? What bishop approve this? And

811
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: more importantly, at what point does the novasorto, the new

812
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: Mass becomes so elastic that it can accommodate literally anything,

813
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: including a carnival celebration.

814
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 4: Well, this is an outrage and a scandal, and it's

815
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 4: compounded not just by what happened, but by the fact

816
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 4: that the priest there thought he could do it, and

817
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 4: the fact that he did it, and that the bishop

818
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 4: didn't condemn it. As far, I've never heard any condemnations

819
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 4: so far. Maybe you have. But what motivates a priest

820
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 4: to turn mass into a spectacle, a theater, a celebration

821
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 4: of something that is fine to have out in the streets,

822
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 4: but turn it into a church. Essentially, they're bored with religion,

823
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: They're bored with the mass, divine worship, they're bored with

824
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 4: the readings from sacred Scripture. What do they have to

825
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 4: substitute with? Which is entertainment? And if anything? You know,

826
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 4: this is a profound question that you know, maybe we

827
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 4: can explore some time further.

828
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: But man.

829
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 4: Who is bored seeks to be entertained, man who is

830
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 4: in wonder about the beauty of divine creation seeks worship.

831
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 4: That's what said stake here. They're not worshiping God. Their

832
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 4: bishops haven't told them to worship God. Their bishops haven't

833
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 4: told them that they're sinners who need repentance and forgiveness,

834
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 4: which is available. Their bishops have told them essentially, whatever

835
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 4: you want to do, that's a sign of the time,

836
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 4: we're going to approve it. This is a profound crisis.

837
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 4: This is worse than the Reformation because in the Reformation,

838
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 4: at least Martin Luther referred everything to the scriptures. Where

839
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 4: in the scriptures do you find bring clowns into your

840
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 4: worship ceremony because that's or pleasing to God within the

841
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 4: absence of clowns, of course not.

842
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Look, I'm from New Orleans. I love

843
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: Marty Grass, I love Carnival. I think it's fantastic. It

844
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: doesn't belong in the Mass. It's not worship of God.

845
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: It's a celebration. But it's man made and you have

846
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: to separate that, Bob. It does cause one to wonder

847
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: why Rome is so fixated on the ancient, traditional solemn

848
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: sacred Latin Mass, while these jamborees seem to spread every week,

849
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: literally every week, particularly in parts of Europe. We've covered

850
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: one of these over the last maybe four or five.

851
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 3: Weeks, yeah, I was about to say that myself. I

852
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 3: love Carnival too, and I love masses, but you know,

853
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 3: never the twain shall meet you, because they're really two

854
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: distinct things that we ought to be able to maintain

855
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 3: a distinction between. Yeah, it's isn't it curious that these

856
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 3: are these abuses? And by the way, even Pope Francis

857
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 3: used to talk about the abuses of the novus ordo mass,

858
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 3: so it's not exactly like this is just a concern

859
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 3: of conservatives. But the puzzling thing here is why does

860
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 3: Rome officially be so worried about the traditional Latin Mass

861
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: and officially it does virtually nothing at these abuses of

862
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: the novas auto mass, which I think even go beyond

863
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 3: the question of abuse. This this is sort of something

864
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: that if you want to talk about Vatican two and

865
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 3: what Vatican two hoped was going to come out of

866
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: a reform, this would have been something that the Vatican

867
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: two fathers would have regarded as an outrage, as a

868
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 3: destruction of two thousand years of church history and even

869
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 3: just the normal decorum that even Pagans often show in

870
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 3: their rights. So that you're right, Raymond, it takes a

871
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 3: guy from New Orleans to recognize that the carnival is

872
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: a good thing, but keep it away from the church.

873
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not part of sacred worship. And you know,

874
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: and I agree with you. I think the spectacles that

875
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: we've seen over the last few weeks, sadly we've had

876
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: to bring our audience. It borders on sacrilegious if it

877
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: doesn't lapse right into it. Okay, I want to try

878
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: to end our gathering on a happier note, something.

879
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: Positive, Bob.

880
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: Despite your recent assertion that the Posse doesn't traffic in optimism,

881
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: here goes. Kansas State University is reporting a record number

882
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: of converts coming into the church this Easter. We're not

883
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: talking about a handful of people. One hundred and ten,

884
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: mostly students along with some faculty and staff, are completing

885
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: their Right of Christian Initiation, which is the RCIA program

886
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: to come into the church at Kansas State's Catholic Center,

887
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: Saint Isidore's. It is a vivid and welcome example. I

888
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: think of a larger surge of young adult conversions across

889
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: the US. Father, what's happening at Kansas State? And why

890
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: is a story like this so important?

891
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 4: Well, obviously, the grace of God is very powerful, which

892
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 4: I'm going to say is based on the fact that

893
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 4: the ministers of grace are very powerful. And by ministers

894
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 4: of grace, I mean not only the priests who may

895
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 4: be involved in the chaplaincy there and other priests, but

896
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 4: also the lay students and the lay faculty who are inspired.

897
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 4: You know, I think one of the greatest things that's

898
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 4: happened since Vatican Two is the involvement of the laity

899
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 4: in promoting the mission of the Church by trying to

900
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 4: bring people into the church. Now that it's always been

901
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 4: that way, but nowadays, you know, we have a whole

902
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 4: group of Catholics who intermingle all the time with non

903
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 4: Catholics and who are not afraid to talk about their faith,

904
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 4: particularly in university. Bob speaks at universities all the time.

905
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 4: I'm me less, but I'm always inspired when you see

906
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 4: devout Catholics at these places, and they're the ones having

907
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 4: a good influence on others. So that's my optimistic thing.

908
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 4: An informed laity which is on fire with God's grace.

909
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 4: They bring a lot of people to Christ.

910
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 1: Bob, I remember my old boss and mentor, Bob Novak,

911
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: the political columnist in DC. He was speaking at a

912
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: college one year and before the speech, he gathered at

913
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: a table with a group of college students who had

914
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: invited him, and while they were eating, he noticed that

915
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: a girl had a crucifix on across the table, and

916
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: he said, well, why do you wear that and she said, well,

917
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm Catholic. You know, I believe we're going to We're

918
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: all going to be judged, mister Novak. And she said

919
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: what faith do you practice, And at that time he said, well,

920
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 1: I'm an agnostic. And she said I'm going to pray

921
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: for you, and she held up the cross and she said,

922
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: life is short, eternity is forever, mister Novak. And he

923
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 1: never forgot that line, and it was the instigation. He said,

924
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 1: I would hear it every morning. Life is short, eternity

925
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: is forever. That was the that was the trigger for

926
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: his conversion to faith. When you hear about college students

927
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: like this, young people choosing baptism, confirmation, the eucherus, what

928
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: does that tell you about the state of the church

929
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 1: and the hunger that's out there.

930
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is just wonderful stuff. And you know,

931
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 3: lots of people come to me and they said, well, well,

932
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 3: what can I do? The world isn't such chaos. Well,

933
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 3: you do whatever you can you get an opportunity like that.

934
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 3: And here's this young girl who speaks to Bob Novak,

935
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 3: this great journalist. You know, one of my granddaughters is

936
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 3: at George Washington University here in Washington, d C. And

937
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 3: she talks about the Catholic chaplaincy there. I mean, when

938
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 3: she tells me about the activities that are going on,

939
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 3: I think we cannot. It has not been enough appreciated

940
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 3: how much the church has stepped into these circumstances that

941
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 3: in the past we thought were absolutely hopeless. The Dominican

942
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 3: House of Studies here in Washington, D C. Has these

943
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 3: tomistic institutes on fifty of the elite colleges and universities

944
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: in the United States, and I've spoken at several of them,

945
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 3: and you meet some absolutely intelligent, ambitious people who are

946
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 3: on fire for the faith as well. So, look, we

947
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 3: had a long period in which we went down with

948
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 3: the young people. It may be that we're on a

949
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: very steep climb back out of that. But I mean

950
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 3: give credit not only to the chaplains who are out there,

951
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 3: but the kids themselves who recognize that the world that

952
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 3: they're in is not a world that they want to

953
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 3: continue in and want to see a different future for

954
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 3: themselves and for places like the United States. I hope

955
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 3: that people in Rome, but also people in other countries

956
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 3: recognize this great success that is beginning, because you know,

957
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 3: the gospel works. When you preach the gospel, people come

958
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,479
Speaker 3: to it. They need to have some intellectual formation because

959
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 3: they've been misled about so many things, but that's the preliminary.

960
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 3: Once those things have been gotten out of the way,

961
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 3: it's the attractiveness of the people who are there and

962
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 3: the ultimate vision for your life that they bring forward.

963
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: And I'm hopeful if we need to, if we need

964
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 3: an optimistic note to end on, I'm hopeful about that.

965
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: That's a good one.

966
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: Look, it's a dark time, but when you're in darkness,

967
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: you crave light and you reach for it wherever you

968
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: can find it. That's what I think is happening with

969
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: these young people. Gentlemen, Grateful as always to you, And

970
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: if you want more of the Arroyo Grande prayerful Posse,

971
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: subscribe to The Royal Grande Show on YouTube or wherever

972
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. On behalf of Robert Royal and

973
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray. Until the posse rides again, Stay the

974
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: course and follow the like I'm raising a Arroyo.

975
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time by No Arroyo.

976
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and is

977
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your

978
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: podcasts