1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Also media.

2
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,039
Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Behind the Bastards. This

3
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,040
Speaker 2: is a podcast about the worst people in all of history.

4
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,000
Speaker 2: And I'm Robert Evans doing my best n PR voice.

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,680
Speaker 2: That's good work. That work. It made me uncomfortable. Make

6
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 2: you uncomfortable, it makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, I liked it. Yeah,

7
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 2: speaking of NPR, you know who's better than n PR.

8
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 3: I mean lots of folks.

9
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 2: Well, Anders Anderson and our guest today, Andrew t YEH.

10
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,760
Speaker 2: I don't know a particular problem with NPR.

11
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:40,280
Speaker 3: I don't know.

12
00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,560
Speaker 2: I don't really listen to n PR, but I assume

13
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,559
Speaker 2: they're they they're valuable, right, They're still good.

14
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,320
Speaker 1: I don't think we have beef with NPR.

15
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 2: They do something horrible. I don't know.

16
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 3: They are.

17
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 4: They are valuable relative to the media landscape in America,

18
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,959
Speaker 4: but they are not like a net value.

19
00:00:58,640 --> 00:00:59,200
Speaker 3: To the world.

20
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,240
Speaker 4: Probably, they're like all things that are that are good

21
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,080
Speaker 4: in America quote unquote good.

22
00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,560
Speaker 3: They're kind of like center right Namby Pambyism. But what

23
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:09,160
Speaker 3: are you gonna do.

24
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 2: They've got I'm sure, I'm sure they've got their problems.

25
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 2: I think they're like basically the only thing that equivocates

26
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 2: to local news in a lot of ways, right, Like

27
00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 2: that that still exists that isn't like owned by Sinclair.

28
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,759
Speaker 2: So it's one of those things where like there should

29
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,640
Speaker 2: be better things than NPR performing the similar role. But

30
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,680
Speaker 2: we are where we are, right So I'm not gonna

31
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,679
Speaker 2: shit on for that. What I am gonna shit on

32
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,520
Speaker 2: is our topic for today's episode, Frank Fay, the man

33
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,480
Speaker 2: who invented stand up comedy. And before I get into that,

34
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 2: I want to plug a fundraiser that we are we

35
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 2: are doing here at behind the Bastards to help out

36
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,120
Speaker 2: the Portland Defense Fund. This is a bail fund. It

37
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,040
Speaker 2: started out, I mean it's earlier iterations, started out to

38
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,560
Speaker 2: help people who had been arrested in the twenty twenty protests.

39
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 2: They still do help protesters, but their primary job is

40
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 2: people get arrested. They're usually homeless and indigent. They are

41
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 2: usually people with no resources, and the Defense Fund doesn't

42
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 2: just help them get bailed out. And often this is

43
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,320
Speaker 2: people like literally like one hundred bucks that they just

44
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,320
Speaker 2: don't have. Number One, when people are accused of crimes,

45
00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,480
Speaker 2: if they're out of jail while they are fighting the charges,

46
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 2: their odds of not going to prison are vastly higher.

47
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 2: The Defense Fund helps basically everybody. They do not provide

48
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 2: bail funds to people who are accused of domestic violence

49
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 2: for you know, some reasons that should we are probably

50
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 2: obvious to people. But they help a lot of people

51
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,080
Speaker 2: who like literally no one else is looking out for.

52
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,839
Speaker 2: That's what the Portland Defense Fund is, and we're trying

53
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 2: to raise money for them because they are out of it.

54
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 2: If you go to if you just type in a

55
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,959
Speaker 2: donor box Defense Fund PDX into Google, it will take

56
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,960
Speaker 2: you to the Defense Fund fundraiser. That's donor box Defense

57
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 2: Fund PDX. And another way you can help is you

58
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:05,920
Speaker 2: can mow them at at Defense Fund PDX. So you know,

59
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,200
Speaker 2: please send some money, help them out. I donate every year.

60
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,519
Speaker 2: They're a five oh one c so it's like attacks.

61
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 2: You can, you know, write it off too, like it's

62
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 2: an actual charitable organization.

63
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 3: They're legit.

64
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,120
Speaker 2: I know the people who run it. Please help them out.

65
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about a real piece of shit.

66
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 2: You gotta to talk about a piece of shit, Andrew.

67
00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 3: We talk about a good thing for ten fifteen seconds.

68
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fifteen seconds of a good thing that helps

69
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people who literally no one else is

70
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,119
Speaker 2: looking out for in the entire world, because the homeless

71
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 2: are again the vast majority people who get arrested, and

72
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 2: not Frank Fay, although he is he's like a rich

73
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 2: homeless person.

74
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 3: Right.

75
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,840
Speaker 2: One of the things about Frank is that he refuses

76
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 2: to have a house or an apartment. For most of

77
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,480
Speaker 2: his life, he only lives in nice hotels. So like, right,

78
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,320
Speaker 2: really a homeless but like literally he doesn't have a home, right,

79
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 2: He's just he's just staying in nice hotels because that's

80
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 2: the kind of life he prefers to live. And it

81
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,000
Speaker 2: makes sense based on his backshirt, right, Like he never

82
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 2: has a stable place, right, Like he and his family

83
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 2: are like living on the road. Right.

84
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

85
00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,480
Speaker 2: So, in the late nineteen teens, when Frank Fay is

86
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,800
Speaker 2: establishing himself as the biggest name in vaudeville and the

87
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,159
Speaker 2: biggest name in like live performing in New York City,

88
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 2: another person exists. There's two people in the world at

89
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 2: this point in time, and one of them is a

90
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 2: young girl named Ruby Stephens. And while Frank is kind

91
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 2: of making his name for himself, Ruby is living through

92
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 2: one of the worst childhoods I have ever read about. Right,

93
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,679
Speaker 2: Ruby had been born in nineteen oh seven, so she's

94
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,040
Speaker 2: quite a bit younger than Frank Fay, and she was

95
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 2: the fifth child of Catherine Anne and Byron Stevens. Both

96
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,360
Speaker 2: families seem to have come from some degree of like privilege.

97
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 2: It's uncle to me how if they were like rich

98
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 2: or it's just because they've been in a Marria from

99
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 2: like almost Mayflower days or right around then. Right, so

100
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,080
Speaker 2: they're like old America and they know their pedigree, but

101
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 2: I don't think I don't know how much money they

102
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,920
Speaker 2: actually have. It's a little that part's a little unclear

103
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 2: to me. It may have been that like they used

104
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 2: to be more blue bloody and they just they just

105
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 2: kind of ran out of money. That happens a lot.

106
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,480
Speaker 2: But it seemed like she was on track for a

107
00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,679
Speaker 2: more normal life until in nineteen eleven, when she is four,

108
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 2: a drunk passenger falls off the street car she's on

109
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,560
Speaker 2: with her pregnant mother, and he like pulls her mother

110
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,880
Speaker 2: down basically, and she goes into early labor after falling

111
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,159
Speaker 2: off the street car and dies from sepsis. Right, so,

112
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 2: just a horrible freak street car accident, like really pretty

113
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,160
Speaker 2: fucked up. So that's traumatic, right, you know, watching this

114
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 2: happen as a four year old and then being without

115
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,559
Speaker 2: your mom and her dad. This is nineteen oh seven

116
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,520
Speaker 2: or eleven. Her dad had been a drinker, and having

117
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 2: your wife an unborn kid die in a street car

118
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 2: accident does not make you slow down the drinking in

119
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,120
Speaker 2: nineteen eleven. So he takes what I think we can

120
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:15,680
Speaker 2: all agree is an understandable, healthy reaction and becomes a

121
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 2: destructive alcoholic and abandons his family to dig the Panama Canal. Right,

122
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 2: tale as old as time. We've all been there once

123
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,159
Speaker 2: or twice, right, you know, Yeah, that's where you and

124
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,800
Speaker 2: I met Andrew digging the Panama Canal, and they kept

125
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 2: yelling at us, there's already a canal. Stop digging holes.

126
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,800
Speaker 2: But we said, fuck you. You know, I won't do

127
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 2: what you tell me.

128
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,680
Speaker 4: I read you were really you had your You had

129
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 4: your mindset on Canal two.

130
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:40,200
Speaker 2: Canal too.

131
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,800
Speaker 3: Electric boogle is very admirable.

132
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna make it even bigger, and we're gonna

133
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 2: kill even more guys from.

134
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,920
Speaker 3: Fucking malaria malaria two.

135
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 2: So he goes to the Panama Canal and, like everyone

136
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 2: who goes to dig in the Panama Canal. He dies

137
00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,440
Speaker 2: horribly almost immediately. Right, That's that's what digging the Anama

138
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,040
Speaker 2: Canal is, as you are signing up to die from

139
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:08,040
Speaker 2: a mosquito or get drowned in fucking like wet concrete.

140
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:08,360
Speaker 1: Right.

141
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,080
Speaker 2: If you want to learn more about that sort of thing,

142
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 2: listen to Wait, is it the Panama Canal or was

143
00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 2: the Hoover damn and the song the Highwayman one of

144
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 2: the two? Either way? Listen to the song the Highwaymen

145
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 2: by the Highwayman A.

146
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,239
Speaker 3: Just think of any major work.

147
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 2: Oh, he was a damn builder, He was a damn bilder.

148
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry, okay, including modern times though. Yeah, it's made

149
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 4: by a crime against humanity. There's no way to do

150
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 4: it without committing a criming A.

151
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna have to kill a certain number shitload

152
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,520
Speaker 2: of people, right, yeah. So yeah, he leaves Ruby and

153
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 2: her siblings orphaned, but he abandons them before he orphans them,

154
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,720
Speaker 2: so it's fine. So she grows up in a series

155
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,560
Speaker 2: of foster situations. She is separated from her siblings right away.

156
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 2: She is bullied horribly as a little girl because she's

157
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 2: an orphan and little kids are fucking psychopaths. To quote

158
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 2: another great stand up comedian, Donald Glover, they're little hitlers, right,

159
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,680
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, look a little girly lost her whole family.

160
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:10,560
Speaker 2: Let's kick her.

161
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

162
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 2: So Ruby comes to hate school, not surprising. The one

163
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:18,720
Speaker 2: thing she has going for her is that one of

164
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,280
Speaker 2: her older sisters, who's a young adult or I think

165
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,640
Speaker 2: she's actually think she's probably sixteen or seventeen, But that's

166
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,680
Speaker 2: as good as being an adult in this day and age,

167
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 2: was a vaudeville dancer, right, And so Ruby gets really

168
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,280
Speaker 2: interested in entertainment and her sister helps her kind of

169
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,079
Speaker 2: get into theater. She drops out of school at age

170
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,600
Speaker 2: fourteen and starts working. And again, you're basically an adult

171
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 2: at fourteen at this socioeconomic level, right, This is not

172
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,559
Speaker 2: just the US. You're legally an adult in a lot

173
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 2: of Europe at this point in time. And by age

174
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 2: sixteen she is a chorus girl in a nightclub. So

175
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 2: there's you have to assume some like people taking physical

176
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 2: advantage of her. We would we call this pedophilia to day.

177
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 2: I think that's fair to call it then, but also

178
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 2: that's not what people would have seen it as, right.

179
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 2: They would see her as an adult right, not to

180
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,080
Speaker 2: say that that's not still fucked up. That's just the

181
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 2: way things were back then. This is nineteen twenty three

182
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 2: when she starts working as a chorus girl in a nightclub,

183
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 2: So she is getting started in her showbiz career, while

184
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 2: Frank Fay is kind of like he is like near

185
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,520
Speaker 2: the peak of his fame and prestige right, like he

186
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 2: is selling out that This is right before he has

187
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,440
Speaker 2: his ten week run at the Palace, so he hasn't

188
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,839
Speaker 2: like he hasn't quite hit his peak yet, but he's

189
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 2: rising to his peak, right. And so at the time

190
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 2: she is starting as a chorus girl, she would see

191
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,439
Speaker 2: him as like one of the big this is one

192
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 2: of the major stars right in her feet, the guy.

193
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,200
Speaker 2: This is the guy. He's got a lot of power.

194
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,080
Speaker 2: He's you know, she doesn't want to be exactly doing

195
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,559
Speaker 2: what he's doing, right, but like she would see him

196
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 2: as someone to look up to because of the level

197
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,440
Speaker 2: of success that he's had. He can do something for

198
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,800
Speaker 2: he can make her career right obviously. So you know,

199
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 2: there's a number of things that are potentially we can

200
00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,839
Speaker 2: see unhealthy about the dynamic that's going to form. Although

201
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,360
Speaker 2: it's not going to go where you'd expect it to.

202
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,600
Speaker 2: For a while, Ruby was stuck at the middle rung

203
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,320
Speaker 2: of her field. She makes she's a good dancer, She's

204
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,720
Speaker 2: constantly working right, and in order to make extra cash,

205
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,520
Speaker 2: she moonlights as a dance instructor for gay and lesbian speakeasies,

206
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,960
Speaker 2: which is pretty cool. Like what this is. By the way,

207
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 2: Ruby becomes Barbara Stanwick. This is her initial name.

208
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,280
Speaker 3: She's cool with the.

209
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,160
Speaker 2: Gays, which is nice, you know, given this period of time.

210
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,680
Speaker 2: She initially becomes acquainted with Frank Fay in the mid

211
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,079
Speaker 2: nineteen twenties, probably right around the time he has that

212
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 2: big ten week stand at the Palace, thanks to her

213
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 2: friendship with a guy named Oscar Levant, and Oscar Levant

214
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,000
Speaker 2: is a pianist who had performed many times with Faye

215
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,160
Speaker 2: and become one of his friends. In the mid and

216
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 2: late twenties, she starts doing better and better. Right, she

217
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 2: gets recognized, she starts getting acting gigs, and by kind

218
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 2: of like the mid twenties, she is performing in Broadway shows.

219
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 2: And because she is now becoming a star in her

220
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 2: own right, she's kind of a small star now while

221
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,200
Speaker 2: Frank's a big one. But you need a better name

222
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,440
Speaker 2: than Ruby whatever the fuck her last name was, because

223
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 2: it's forgettable, right, So she picks the stage name Barbara Stanwick. Now,

224
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,679
Speaker 2: she falls in love first with one of her co stars,

225
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 2: a man with the incredible name Rex Cherryman. The two

226
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,439
Speaker 2: break up in early nineteen twenty eight, and there's kind

227
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,680
Speaker 2: of a will they won't they thing going on for

228
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 2: a while, maybe they'll get back together, but then he

229
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,000
Speaker 2: dies of sepsis during a sea trip to Europe to perform,

230
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 2: because that's just how people died back there.

231
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's just what went down.

232
00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:43,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sepsis. I hardly know sis. So he's dead

233
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,920
Speaker 2: as shit. She's sad as shit, and then levant tries

234
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 2: to cheer his friend up by introducing her to his

235
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 2: other friend, Frank Fay, thinking the two would hit it off.

236
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 2: They did not. In fact, they seem to hate each

237
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 2: other at first, and in Ruby's case at least, this

238
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 2: is with good reason, because Frank is immediately attracted to

239
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,880
Speaker 2: Barbara Stanwick, who she's like young at this point, right,

240
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,679
Speaker 2: like she's just barely twenty something like that.

241
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 3: What the fuck? What is this.

242
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,319
Speaker 2: Nineteen twenty eight? She was born in nineteen oh seven,

243
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,480
Speaker 2: so she's twenty one years old, right, and he's in

244
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,680
Speaker 2: he's almost forty, so there's quite a bit of an

245
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,480
Speaker 2: age gap between the two of them, but it's also

246
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,520
Speaker 2: less weird at this period of time and in this

247
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 2: industry anyway. Like he immediately has a crush on her, right,

248
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 2: but he doesn't want to admit that and flirt with her,

249
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 2: and she thinks he's attractive, but he starts by negging her, right,

250
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,360
Speaker 2: Like he's an early practitioner of negging. And I'm going

251
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 2: to quote from Victoria Williams's book here. After Fay's show

252
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,480
Speaker 2: at the Palladium, Levant brought Barbara and Walda, which is

253
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 2: one of her friends and colleagues, backstage. They entered phase

254
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,440
Speaker 2: dressing room. As he was removing his makeup, he was

255
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,240
Speaker 2: charming and beguiling. He announced he was hungry and that

256
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,320
Speaker 2: as soon as he finished taking off his makeup he

257
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 2: was going to arrest Drut, where he said they serve

258
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,360
Speaker 2: the best food in town. They really know how to

259
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,560
Speaker 2: serve food in this place. Fay went on a little

260
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,439
Speaker 2: table in a quiet corner, soft music, and it's like

261
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 2: he's kind of setting her up. Barbara was ready to

262
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 2: accept the invitation. When the dressing room door opened and

263
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 2: in walked a beautiful woman who said, are you ready

264
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 2: for dinner? Frank be with you right away, Fay said.

265
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,560
Speaker 2: As he put on his coat, he turned to his

266
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 2: guests and said, you must try this place. The food

267
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,480
Speaker 2: is really delicious. And he like sets this up. He's

268
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,440
Speaker 2: like really making her think that they're going to go

269
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,520
Speaker 2: out together. He's talking about it like that. And he

270
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,760
Speaker 2: has set it up with this other lady ahead of time,

271
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 2: knowing he was going to meet her, and knowing that

272
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,520
Speaker 2: levant is trying to hook them up. He'd probably he'd

273
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 2: seen her on stage, so he knew that he was

274
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 2: into her. He sets this up specifically to pull the

275
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 2: rug out from onto her because he's an asshole, right, Yeah,

276
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,840
Speaker 2: he's such a dick. And in fact, as he leaves

277
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,080
Speaker 2: with this other lady, he stops and turns back to

278
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 2: Barbara and says, you should come back and see me

279
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 2: again sometime, and then goes off on a date with

280
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 2: this other woman. Now this is a transparent ployee. He's

281
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,320
Speaker 2: trying to make her like desperate. He's trying to, like,

282
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 2: you know, it's obvious what he's trying to do, right,

283
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,439
Speaker 2: And Barbara doesn't bite, right. In fact, she doesn't do anything.

284
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 2: She doesn't call him, she doesn't like approach him again,

285
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 2: although she doesn't do anything to avoid future contact with

286
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 2: him either, right, Like, she doesn't do either of those things.

287
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 2: So you know she's she's not like falling for it,

288
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 2: but she's also not being like fuck this guy entirely, right.

289
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 3: It's not working, but it's not not working.

290
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 2: Right, And I think this is part of what attracts Frank,

291
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 2: is that she doesn't fall for the bait, and so

292
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 2: he calls her directly a few days later and is like, hey,

293
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 2: do you want to meet me for dinner?

294
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 3: Right?

295
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 2: So she kind of wins, and this is I love

296
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,800
Speaker 2: Barbara Stanwick. She says, thank you, Yes, absolutely, that sounds great.

297
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,720
Speaker 2: I'll meet you at you know whatever restaurant at whatever time, right,

298
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,760
Speaker 2: And they set up a date and she stands his

299
00:14:54,840 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 2: ass up so you can see there, you know, which

300
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 2: it sounds like these two might be kind of made

301
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 2: for each other.

302
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's pretty good.

303
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,680
Speaker 2: Actually, So she expects him to call her after this

304
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 2: and be like pissed off, right, that's kind of what

305
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 2: she had been hoping. But Faye, again, he takes things

306
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 2: in stride and he maintains radio silence, so neither calls

307
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,880
Speaker 2: the other for two weeks, and then Barbara talks to

308
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 2: their mutual friend Levant and is like, hey, could you

309
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 2: call Frank and invite him to dinner? And I'm going

310
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 2: to show up at the dinner, but don't you know

311
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 2: you don't need to tell him that. So Frank asks

312
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 2: his friend who else is going to be there, and

313
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 2: Lavatte doesn't lie, and he's like, well, Barbara, Stanwick's going

314
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 2: to be there, And so as soon as Frank here's that,

315
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 2: he hatches places, yeah, I'll be there. We'll all have

316
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 2: a dinner together. And then he no shows again. So

317
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 2: at this point Barbara might have been it seems to

318
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 2: be like kind of veering towards fuck this guy. But

319
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 2: then for the next two weeks, wherever she shows up

320
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 2: for dinner or lunch or at like a bar or whatever,

321
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 2: whenever she shows up to like watch a performance, he's there.

322
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,520
Speaker 2: He's always there, everywhere she winds up going, and he's

323
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 2: always there with a different beautiful woman. Right no matter

324
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 2: where she goes, there's Frank Fay and he's always on

325
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 2: a date. And she doesn't learn this until later but Frank,

326
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 2: he's got a lot of connections, and he's a lot

327
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 2: of money. He's been both I think probably paying people

328
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 2: to stalk her and also just like using talking to

329
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 2: other people he knows to like figure out where she's

330
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 2: going and scheduling dates with random women for the sole

331
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 2: purpose of like making her watch him make out with

332
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 2: other people. So they're not in a relationship, and this

333
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 2: is already one of the most toxic relationships I've ever

334
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 2: heard of.

335
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess this is juicy. It's so bonkers, it's.

336
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,680
Speaker 2: So nuts, and like Barbara is the good guy in this,

337
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,160
Speaker 2: but she's definitely there's some toxicity coming from her too. Right, So,

338
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 2: after a couple of weeks, he shows up at a

339
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 2: fancy restaurant when Stanleyck and Lavaunt are about to have

340
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 2: dinner think with a couple of mutual friends, and he

341
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,919
Speaker 2: sits down at the table and he and Barbara immediately

342
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 2: start insulting each other. Right, they just start going to

343
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 2: town at each other, you know, like letting out all

344
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 2: of this like frustration over this last couple of weeks

345
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 2: of fucking around, and eventually their friend Levant, who has

346
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 2: judged the vibe properly stops them. It's like, you too

347
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 2: obviously want to fuck. Will you just do it already

348
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 2: and stop with this bullshit, Like I know you both,

349
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,359
Speaker 2: like you're clearly into each other and you're just both

350
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,200
Speaker 2: toxic psychos. Stop it. Just get laid, you know, and

351
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,960
Speaker 2: it works. Levant's like he called it. They're like, yeah,

352
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,920
Speaker 2: you know what, fuck it. And so they start dating, right,

353
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 2: they start going out. They start you know, uh, banging

354
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,879
Speaker 2: the nasties, you know, bumping uglies, twiddling the what Sophie, Sophie,

355
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 2: you can't say sex or fucked on a podcast, We'll

356
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 2: get arrested.

357
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,480
Speaker 3: That's true. That is true.

358
00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 2: The code, there's a haze code called yeah yeah. So

359
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 2: they start noodling the whirlpool, so to speak. They start dating,

360
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 2: and she falls head over heels in love with Frank

361
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 2: right very very quickly, you know, once they're actually they

362
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,679
Speaker 2: drop the pretense to start seeing each other, and he

363
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,320
Speaker 2: seems to fall in love as well. They are both

364
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,919
Speaker 2: obsessed with each other, and in Barbara's case, she's obsessed

365
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 2: with him enough to the point that, like she is

366
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,919
Speaker 2: willing to give up her career and she at this

367
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 2: point is fairly big, right, like she is now a

368
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 2: major name on a marquee. She's getting some pretty juicy

369
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,080
Speaker 2: she's not quite a leading lady yet, but she's getting

370
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,399
Speaker 2: some really juicy like Broadway roles, right. And she's tells

371
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 2: openly like, I'm willing to kind of give up my

372
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 2: career in order to be like a full time wife, right,

373
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 2: And that made out because she's obviously very good, she's

374
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 2: very dedicated to her career. You have to think in

375
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 2: terms of making sense of this, this is a girl

376
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 2: who lost her entire family very young and has never

377
00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 2: had one, has never had that kind of emotional stability. Yes,

378
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,880
Speaker 2: so she I think, and that's what That's what her

379
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 2: biographer rights. It's basically she is desperate for that kind

380
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 2: of stability At this point. It matters more to her

381
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,160
Speaker 2: than this career.

382
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 3: That she's got.

383
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 2: Now, Frank is an alcoholic. This should not be surprising

384
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 2: to anyone. It's not an uncommon situation for a major

385
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 2: performer today and it certainly was not back then. They

386
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,119
Speaker 2: start their relationship when he's sober, right he had I

387
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 2: mean he's an alcoholic because he had been. He had

388
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 2: gone sober because it was causing him problems, right, even

389
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 2: during the height of his time at the palace. He

390
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 2: misses shows semi regularly, left to cancel suddenly because he's

391
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 2: like too sick from getting fucked up. So during one

392
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 2: of their initial dates, like no one at the table

393
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 2: is allowed to drink whenever they show up with a

394
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 2: group because Frank isn't drinking, right, And that's the kind

395
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 2: of you know guy he is, is like, no one

396
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 2: else at the table can be drinking if I'm not drinking,

397
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 2: And you know, this is one of those things. Also,

398
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,640
Speaker 2: he's got an entourage, so whenever they're like hanging out

399
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 2: or traveling around, it's never just Frank or Frank and Barbara.

400
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 2: It's Frank and Barbara and his personal barber and his manicurist,

401
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 2: and his songwriter and his pianist and his composer and

402
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 2: his tailor and his secretary. Like he literally travels with

403
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: these people most of the places that he goes. Now

404
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 2: he's sober initially, but he periodically will fall off the wagon,

405
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 2: and when he does, he will go on days long

406
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 2: binges hours or days and hours long is a short one.

407
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 2: Sometimes he'll be drinking for days, but all of his

408
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 2: binges in the same way with him staggering to Saint

409
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 2: Patrick's Cathedral to confess his sins. For an idea of

410
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 2: how committed a drunk this guy was when he was drinking,

411
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 2: I want to read you the text of a poem

412
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: that he kept on him at all times while traveling.

413
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 2: The wonderful love of a beautiful maid, and the staunch

414
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: true love of a man, the love of a baby unafraid,

415
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: which hath exist since life began. But the greatest love,

416
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 2: the love of love, transcending even that of a mother,

417
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: is the tender, the passionate, the infinite love of one

418
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 2: drunken bum for another.

419
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 3: Pretty good poem.

420
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of hit, so Barbara would would have

421
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: been aware. Number One, there's stories about this guy's drinking.

422
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 3: Right.

423
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 2: He's been arrested a bunch of times, He's been in

424
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 2: tons of fights. He is a fame. He is famous

425
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 2: in the twenties for being an out.

426
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 3: Of control alcoholic.

427
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 2: That's not easy, right, Like you could buy cocaine at

428
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 2: the store. Yeah, yeah, you can buy cocaine at the store,

429
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,239
Speaker 2: and this guy's a famous alcoholic. That's like being a

430
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 2: famous beer lover in Wisconsin, right, Yeah, you know, like

431
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 2: we don't have the technology to be an alcoholic the

432
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 2: way this man is now, this guy is a quint

433
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: from Jaws level drinker.

434
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 3: So it's like having a coke problem at Studio fifty four.

435
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 2: It's like right, right, yeah, It's like it's like the

436
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: fucking bathroom attendant at CBGB's being I came in, I

437
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: think you might be doing.

438
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 3: Too much blow.

439
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like John Dolorean sitting you down about your

440
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: coke problem. So Barbara would have been aware that this

441
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 2: thirty seven year old man she'd started seeing it twenty

442
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 2: one had a checkered past. For one thing, he'd already

443
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 2: been divorced three times. His first marriage was to a

444
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: fellow vaudeville star, and it seems to have ended two

445
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: years after the marriage due to infidelity because he cheats

446
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: on her a bunch. Probably one of the people he

447
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: cheats on her with is his second wife, who divorces

448
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 2: him after two months. That's a bad marriage due to

449
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: again rampant infidelity. Within three months of their divorce being

450
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 2: made official, Frank is jailed for refusing to pay alimony.

451
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 2: So his third marriage is his first wife, who he

452
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: marries again, and he makes her quit her because she's

453
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 2: also like a performer he makes her quit her career

454
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: in entertainment after they get married for the second time,

455
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 2: and then the two up again immediately because again he

456
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 2: cheats on air constantly, so not a good husband. And

457
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: it's not just the cheating. He also has a tendency

458
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: to get crazy, drunk, fly off the handle, and beat

459
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: the shit out of his partners. He is very physically abusive.

460
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: He is again noted as being a wife beater in

461
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: the twenties when like, as long as you're just like

462
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: slapping ry, that's not even considered spousal abuse back then, right,

463
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 2: Like he is abusive for the era, Like guys who

464
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: are putting their wives in the hospital are sitting him

465
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 2: down and being like, man, you gotta cooling, you know,

466
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: Like that's the level of bad husband.

467
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 3: This man is the time the time really puts a yes.

468
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 3: It's just like.

469
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like the Jonathan wife beater, the man who

470
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 2: coined the wife beater shirt, is sitting this guy down

471
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: and talking to him damn like he's a shitty husband.

472
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 2: And even outside him. And again, he's not just beating women.

473
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 2: He assaults every He loves assaulting people. He particularly is

474
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 2: abusive to women. But this is just also generally a

475
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: physically violent man, right, Like, I think we've established that now.

476
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 2: He's not a stable guy. He's been arrested. He's one

477
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: of the first drunk drivers. He's gonna it's not even

478
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: illegal to have a drink. You can have a cocktail

479
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: in your hand drinking in the twenties, and he's getting

480
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: arrested for drunk driving. It's nuts. How drunk a driver

481
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: this guy is. He had also already again at the

482
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: height of right, at this period of time, there's weeks

483
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: where he's making three hundred grand in a week in

484
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: modern money. He's already declared bankruptcy several times. You know,

485
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 2: some of that alimony, right, Some of that's because he

486
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 2: refuses to buy a home or live anywhere but luxury hotels. Right,

487
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: Barbara knows all of this. That is important to note. Right,

488
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,719
Speaker 2: I'm not again the abuse that he is going to

489
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 2: do over the course of the relationship. I'm not saying

490
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: that that's I'm not mitigating that at all. But she

491
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 2: is aware of all of this when she starts the relationship, right, Like,

492
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: she does go into this with her eyes open. Obviously

493
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: she's very young. You know, there's a power and balance here,

494
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: but she's heard of him, right, none of this is

495
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: a mystery. She also knows that he gambles uncontrollably when

496
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 2: he's on a bender, which is another reason for all

497
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: of the bankruptcies. For whatever reason, in spite of all

498
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: of this, Barbara Stanwick really does fall for this guy.

499
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 2: And I think again a lot of it is that

500
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 2: he does give her this sense of emotional stability, that

501
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: she's got a center to her world.

502
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 3: Right.

503
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: She's never had a home in the sense of another

504
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: person that she belongs with before, and that's just I mean,

505
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: that's the most intoxicating thing in the world, really, right.

506
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: I think we can all understand that, especially if you're

507
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: someone who's never had that, like she will do anything

508
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: to keep this in her life. So they get engaged,

509
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: and then they almost immediately get unengaged. And I'm going

510
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 2: to quote from an article on Standwith published by Meredith

511
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: Grau here when the duo argued they are argued tooth

512
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 2: and nail and hammer. It was during one of their

513
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: many pointless but explosive arguments that they temporarily broke up.

514
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: Faye took a trip to Saint Louis on a two

515
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: month engagement and Barbara devoted herself to burlesque, evaded friends,

516
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: and became a near ghost. Burlesquwood in end that burlesque

517
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: is a show, right, Like it's not burles day, that's

518
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 2: like an actual play. Burlestwood end its Broadway run as

519
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 2: a local triumph on July fourteenth, but not before Faye

520
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: would fake a breakdown just to drag Barbara to his

521
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: feigned bedside and pop the question. So that's a summary

522
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: of what happened. It actually makes things sound up less

523
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: fucked up than they were. So here's the whole story.

524
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: So they break up, right, she goes off and is

525
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: a huge success. This is like it's a book of

526
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: Mormon level hit. This is the biggest thing on Broadway.

527
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: She's on Broadway for months, then she's touring around the country.

528
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: She's the leading lady in this show. This is a

529
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: huge fucking deal. Right, And Fay has continued to perform,

530
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: but like he is there separated, and he just starts

531
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: calling her almost every night talking about how he's filled

532
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 2: with grief, he can't stand it. He thinks he's going

533
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: to kill himself, and he always is drunk. He's fallen

534
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: off the wagon. He's telling her like I can't stop drinking.

535
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: I'm destroying myself because you're not here anymore, right, Like

536
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: I can't stand to be without you. And one night,

537
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 2: one of Frank's, one of their mutual friends, calls Barbara

538
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: and he's like, hey, man, Frank is I've never even

539
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: seen him like this? Like he is so drunk right

540
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: and in such a bad way. He can't work, he

541
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 2: can't even sleep anymore, right, Like we got to do something.

542
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: He's going to die, you know, like like this guy friends,

543
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 2: it is like this is deathly serious. You got to

544
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 2: help me do something to say Frank. So she's like,

545
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: is he on the phone? Like can he come to

546
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 2: the phone now? And their friend puts Frank on the phone,

547
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: and Frank gets on the phone and he just sounds

548
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: ruined right, just absolutely like barely can talk drunk. He

549
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: tells her his heart's broken, that like he's just ready

550
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: to die because he can't live without her, And Barbara's

551
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 2: resolve crumbles and she tells him, if you can sober up,

552
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 2: I'll get engaged to you again. The next moment, as

553
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 2: soon as she says this, his voice changes. He sounds

554
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: sober because he hasn't been drunk at all this whole time,

555
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: all been fake, every one of these calls. He's been

556
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: faking it, right, He never fell off the wagon, at

557
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: least as far as we know. And he's immediately just

558
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: sobers his voice up and says, all right, well, in

559
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: that case, why don't you get on a train tomorrow

560
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: and we'll get engaged, you know, take a train to

561
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: meet and we'll get engaged and we'll get married right away.

562
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 3: This christ oh.

563
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, just the mmm. That's the good toxic,

564
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: abusive relationship stuff. We love to see it. We don't

565
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: love to see it. And you know, what a what

566
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: a performance it is a great I mean, look, man,

567
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: he's not a bad actor.

568
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: Just the swil god that's so fucked up.

569
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: Bad husband, bad fiance, bad person, sure, but not a

570
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: bad actor. You know who else will lie about destroying

571
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: themselves with alcohol in order to get married to Barbara Stanwick?

572
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 3: Oh?

573
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: Probably Blue Apron. I doubt Lasik would, but Blue Apron might.

574
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: Here's ads Ah, we're back. Which sponsor do you think

575
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: would lie about destroying their body and brain with alcohol

576
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: in order to keep Barbara Stanwick in love with them?

577
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 3: I think? I mean, obviously, any of the mattress ones.

578
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: Any of the mattresses. Oh my god, Casper, Yeah, yeah,

579
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: saw Casper actually would kill themselves drinking in order to

580
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: make Barbara stand with regret dumping them.

581
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: That's right, It's not a lie, it's a way of life.

582
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just how Casper rolls, you know. That's why

583
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: they're a ghost. They already did it, so he's just

584
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: lied to her the way it was. It's written in

585
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: the biography, Williams wrote, Barbara is kind of aware that

586
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: he must have been lying, But I don't know if

587
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: she is or isn't. I don't know if she gets

588
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: fooled by this initially, whatever is the case, She takes

589
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: a train to him, they get engaged again, and they

590
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: get married. Right, maybe she was aware, but it just

591
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: she just was in love with this guy and she

592
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: just needed this in her life, right. I think that's

593
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: probably what's going on here, you know.

594
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 4: I mean I think from the outside of a lot

595
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: of like toxic relationships too, it is just like this

596
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 4: thing where it's like a little bit yes, little bit no,

597
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: Like you feel like it feels like people kind of

598
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 4: know but like can't bring themselves to really confront it.

599
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 3: And that's how it is.

600
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: No, And like, also with all of these toxic relationships

601
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: and with all of these celebrity relationships and shit that

602
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: are so seems so poisonous, there's gotta be good stuff

603
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: here too, right, There's something she's getting that she loves

604
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: and there are good times, right, And there's aspects of

605
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: him again, there's a reason why he's so charming and beloved, right,

606
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: like he is. She's getting something out of this. And

607
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that to like blame her on it

608
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: or something, but like you have to assume this is

609
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: not We're not like, it's not just bad stuff, right,

610
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: It never is. Otherwise why why would she be so

611
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: committed to this? Right? Yeah, that's the way abusive relation

612
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 2: and just toxic. Even when it's not abusive, and it's

613
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: just like codependent or stuff, there is, there's always something

614
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: there that keeps one or both people coming back.

615
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: Right.

616
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: So she finishes the current run of her touring show,

617
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: and then she retires, Well, she actually gets sick right

618
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: at the end of it, but either way, she finishes

619
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: burlesque and she retires. Now this is not a full retirement, right,

620
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: it means that she no longer has an independent career.

621
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: Fay is touring on his own, like he's doing you know,

622
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: the Frank Fay Show basically, and she starts performing as

623
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: part of his shows. Right now, Oh, she makes a

624
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: lot of money doing this. She is independently getting paid,

625
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: and she is getting paid very well, the equivalent of

626
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: probably probably a million or more a year, right or

627
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: somewhere in that, like at least high six figures. She's

628
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: she's making very good money, right, But what she's also

629
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: doing is she is clearly I think I don't know

630
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: if it's that he asked her to play second fiddle

631
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: to his ambition or she was just immediately willing to.

632
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: It's probably a little bit of both, right, that he

633
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: wanted her, but also I don't think it's entirely that,

634
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: because he is actually really supportive of her having a career.

635
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: I do think her attempting to quit is largely just

636
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: her really wanting to commit to the relationship. I think

637
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: that's a big part of it because of some of

638
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: the stuff that's going to happen next. So this is

639
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: a little more complicated, right, I don't want to It's

640
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 2: not just him being like I can't stand to have

641
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: her be a big star or I can't stand to

642
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: have her have a life outside of me. She is

643
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: really motivated by the idea of dedicating herself for to

644
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: this relationship. That is part of what's happening here. As

645
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: the twenties are kind of starting to come to an end,

646
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: Frank is looking out at the entertainment landscape, and he's

647
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: a smart guy, and he's an innovative guy. He understands

648
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: he's got good instincts, right, and he sees that Vaudeville's

649
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: days are numbered, right, this is not going to be

650
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: is already starting to fade. He can kind of see

651
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: there's not as much money coming in, there's not as

652
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: much audience. There's more entertainment out there, right, Like Vaudeville's

653
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: days are kind of over. And he can see that

654
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: the traveling variety acts and these big stage productions that

655
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: you know, cost a lot of money and involve a

656
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: lot of people that have dominated entertainment all his life

657
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: are not going to be around forever. You know, the

658
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: radio is a bigger thing, moving pictures are increasingly significant,

659
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: and you know, we're coming to the end of the

660
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: Roaring twenties, so the bottom is about to fall. Out

661
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: of the economy, which is going to make those big productions,

662
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: those big, huge touring shows and these big elaborate stage

663
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: shows a lot harder to afford, both of the people

664
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: putting them on and for people to buy tickets to. Right,

665
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: So he makes a bold decision right before the depression

666
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: hits to break up with his production company. He like

667
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: breaks a contract to leave them. And this is the

668
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: number one vaudeville production company. They have the ability to

669
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: blacklist him from like the industry almost right, they don't

670
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: do this, but that's the thing he's risking. He takes

671
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: a major risk to leave them because he sees that

672
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: like the bottom's about to fall out, and he wants

673
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: to get into something that he can make work in

674
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 2: this new era. So he starts performing totally independently with

675
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: a skeleton crew of you know, some stage hands and

676
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: a couple other you know, entertainers and his wife, and

677
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: they're doing longer and longer sets. And now he is

678
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: being up there for something that is like a Netflix,

679
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: you know, especially like a full hour type deal. Like

680
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 2: he's doing full stand up routines effectively, you know, in

681
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: something that's very close to a modern sense and he's

682
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: again he's a major pioneer. He starts doing something that's

683
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: kind of weird owl adjacent or like Tom Larrr adjacent.

684
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: Tom lair who just died, the greatest musical comedian of

685
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: all time, one of also one of the greatest men

686
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 2: mathematicians of all time, also invented the jello shot. Incredible man,

687
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: Tom Lairr. Yes, inventor of the jello shot so that

688
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: he could smuggle alcohol into like army gatherings. Amazing man,

689
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 2: just sense.

690
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

691
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: So, and he's not the only there's another musical comedian

692
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 2: right around the same time who's also an influence on

693
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: like Tom Lairr and and you know later guys. But

694
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: he is one of the first like musical parody artists.

695
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 3: Uh.

696
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: And it's interesting. The way he does this is a

697
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: little is it's not the same as what like Lara

698
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 2: and al are doing. It's really interesting. He'll start with

699
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: a popular song and he'll get his musicians to start

700
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: playing like Tea for two. That's one of his big bits,

701
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: which is like you've heard of ta for two At

702
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: this point, it's like a hit song. It's like the

703
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 2: call Me maybe of its Day or the Wet ass

704
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: Pussy of its day. Right, those are the two songs,

705
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: the only two I've heard of. And what it is

706
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 2: kind of like wet ass pussy because it's smutty, right,

707
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: like it is about it's smutty for the day, right,

708
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: because it's like about a date.

709
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: Right.

710
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: So every couple of lines, he'll start playing the song

711
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: and he'll start singing it, and then he'll stop after

712
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: like a line, and he'll break down what doesn't make

713
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: sense or is secretly absurd in the song? Right, here's

714
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: a reason's cinema sensing it? Yes, exactly exactly. Tea for

715
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: two and two for tea, ain't that rich? Here's a

716
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 2: guy that has enough tea for two, so he's gonna

717
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 2: have tea for two. I notice he doesn't say a

718
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: word about sugar comedy. This is easy to anyway whatever.

719
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: I'd assume lots of it's in the delivery. But you

720
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: see what he's doing. He's going through the lyrics of

721
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: this song and then he's like riffing on it, right,

722
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: he's like making fun of bits about it. And I

723
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: think that's interesting because it's the type of bitthesiss is

724
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 2: so modern. You brought up cinema sins because like initially

725
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, he's like kind of a proto

726
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: Tom Lair or weird al but honestly, because they're actually

727
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: doing full pair of these songs. A better comparison is

728
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: like modern YouTube videos where like not just songs, but

729
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: like like the Red Letter stuff red Letter Media got fans,

730
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: you're like break down a movie. You're like going through

731
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: like a whole movie or old and you're like breaking

732
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 2: it down piece by piece and talking in granular to

733
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 2: tale about like what of this movie or video game

734
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: or whatever doesn't make sense? Like is like the analog

735
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 2: version of like most of YouTube's big creators are doing now, right,

736
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: I think that's such so interesting to me, right, Like, yeah,

737
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: he is just like reflexively a very innovative entertainer.

738
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's sounds genuinely so odd.

739
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 4: But also it is like I don't like because the

740
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 4: source material is so old, it's so funny to hear

741
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 4: how corny even the like jab is.

742
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 2: Tea for two, Like how many jokes can you make

743
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 2: about that shit? Man? Yeaeah Yeah, that's his like fucking

744
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 2: hour and a half long video breaking down why the

745
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: Phantom Menace sucks is tea for two, So no sugar, eh, yeah,

746
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 2: no sugar huh. So yeah, that's a very creative idea.

747
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: And again, you gotta think of how weird it would

748
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: be in the nineteen twenty nine to hear like, oh, yeah,

749
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: this guy's gonna come on stage and sing a popular

750
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 2: song and instead he's like making fun of the song.

751
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: Like idi, like you want to hear this guy make

752
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: fun of a song slowly Like that's a that's a

753
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 2: weird ask in this period of time, but it works.

754
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: This is like one of his most popular bits. And again,

755
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: like he's just he's just moving from success to success

756
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: at this point up to kind of like the start

757
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: of the Great Depression, and right really right before the

758
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: Great where I think we're like in twenty nine here,

759
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: like right before things really fall off a cliff. Hollywood

760
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: starts calling his wife right because Barbara, she's made a

761
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: big name for herself, even though she's technically quote unquote retired.

762
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: Everyone knows who Barbara Stanwick is, and these you know,

763
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: we're now in the talkie era. Hollywood is looking for

764
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: new leading ladies and people. You know, there's talent scouts

765
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: that go out to Broadway. They've seen her a lot

766
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: of studios are calling and she turns them all down.

767
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: Like she's getting like we will make you a movie star,

768
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: like we want to give you like picture deals, like

769
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: like there's money for you here, and she's like, nah,

770
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: my husband likes it over here. He doesn't want to

771
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: live in California, and my marriage comes first. And she

772
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: just says no, over and over again to all of

773
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 2: these major studio agents, Like fucking studio heads are trying

774
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: to beat down her door and she won't do it.

775
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 2: She's not at all tempted because that's not what her

776
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: husband wants to do right now. Eventually, the head of

777
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: a major studio or an agent for a major studio

778
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 2: figures out how to wear her down, which is they

779
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: go to Frank and they're like, hey, we want to

780
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: sign you and your wife. You know, you each get

781
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: a one picture deal basically, right, we want to try

782
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: you both out, and to be fair, it's kind of

783
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: a no brainer. I'm sure they're not not interested in

784
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: Frank because he's the one of the biggest performers of

785
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: the day. It's it's pretty obvious from like a student

786
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: a position, Well, these are two of the most famous

787
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: popular people on the stage. Let's see if they could

788
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,439
Speaker 2: be movie stars. Right, invite them both, and they agree, Right,

789
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: I think it's just a matter of the money is

790
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: so good, and you know, Vaudeville's kind of falling apart,

791
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: and yeah, they both decide, all right, let's give it

792
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: a try. And it's when they moved to Hollywood that

793
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: the problems really start. And they start with Barbara because

794
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: she is a horrible auditioner. She's terrible at auditioning. She

795
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to really like do it, and so

796
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: she is supposed to be in this Frank Capra film

797
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: and she goes in for the audition and she bombs it,

798
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: and Capra's like, Frank Capra calls her a porcupine, which

799
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: I is some weird ass twenty sexism. I don't fully

800
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 2: understand what that's supposed to earn. But it's like an

801
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: insult for a woman. I don't understand why, but he

802
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: calls her a porcupine. And this is actually one of

803
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: Frank's very few good moments and very few, like really

804
00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: actually surprisingly supportive partner moments. So the student video that

805
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 2: Caepra was working with, that that she has this deal

806
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: with and she's bombed this audition. He calls Frank Capra,

807
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: like he gets him on the phone personally because he's

808
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 2: a star and he can do that, and he's like, look,

809
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 2: I know you saw my wife. I know you didn't

810
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 2: like the live performance. I need to show you a

811
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: test screening of her, and I think it was her

812
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: doing some lines from burlesque or something like that, because like,

813
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: if you didn't think she'd she must have just bombed

814
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: the audition because she's great, Like, trust me, she's great.

815
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: And Frank is such a big name that Capra's like, okay,

816
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,959
Speaker 2: I'll do it, and he watches this test. Frank Faye

817
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: brings over this test screening and as soon as Capra

818
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: actually sees her performing on stage, he's like, oh my god,

819
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 2: I'm a fucking idiot. This woman is one of the

820
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 2: most talented actors of her generation, of any generation, and

821
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: he casts her immediately, and that's actually like a really

822
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: good like Frank, That's why I'm saying, like he's not

823
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 2: anti her having a career. Weirdly enough, this is going

824
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: to cause problems for them later, but like he is

825
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: really supportive at the start she gets her movie career

826
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: started because he goes to the mat after she bombs

827
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: an audition and make sure she gets the job. So

828
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: that's one good thing that Frank Faye ever did in

829
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: his fucking life.

830
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 3: There you go.

831
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: Now, this is not a Barbara Standwick podcast, and I'm

832
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: not going to do but I'm not going to talk

833
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: in detail.

834
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 4: About Eve a comment or write it if you want

835
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 4: Robert's Barbara Standwick podcast.

836
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: Well, she did murder those children, but in her defense,

837
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 2: those kids were coming right for her. You know who

838
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: did it? Who amongst just hasn't killed a couple of kids, right?

839
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: You know, it happens. It happens. So by the mid thirties,

840
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 2: Barbara Standwick, as soon as she gets this movie, she's

841
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: in this, she's a huge hit. She just immediately a

842
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 2: massive star. Her career is skyrockets from from there on up.

843
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: By the mid thirties, she's one of the leading ladies

844
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: in pre war Hollywood. She is just massive. She's fucking great.

845
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: She's really good at this. It becomes clear to everybody,

846
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 2: and she is just like on a rocket ship to

847
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: success from here on out right. That's that's the Barbara

848
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,479
Speaker 2: Stanwick story. Things go less well for Frank Fay after

849
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: this point in time, his first movie, because they get

850
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: this one picture dealer each get a picture. His first

851
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: movie does pretty well, it's a modest success, but afterwards

852
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: he just doesn't catch on as an actor. He's just

853
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: not for whatever reason. I don't know why. Maybe he's

854
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 2: picking bad scripts or whatever. It just doesn't work out

855
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: for him right and the start, it doesn't help. At

856
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: the start of his career, trying to be an actor

857
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: coincides with the Great Depression really hitting, which wipes out

858
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 2: a lot of the money that had made his old

859
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 2: career possible. So there's not as much money in touring

860
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: or doing the kind of shows he'd been doing. And movies,

861
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: you know, are more economical, they make more because you

862
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: pay to put him on once and then you keep

863
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: making money from him, right, So, like you know, it's

864
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: it's better a business to be in. But he's just

865
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: not doing well in it, and eventually the offer is

866
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: kind of slow to a trickle and stop coming in.

867
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: While Barbara Stanwick becomes a fucking household name. I'm gonna

868
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: quote from an article by in the New York Times.

869
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: As her star began to shine, fase dimmed, he drank,

870
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: was relentlessly abusive towards her and the child Dion they'd adopted. However,

871
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 2: not only did she stick by Faye, but she also

872
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: put his faltering career first. She insisted on introducing herself

873
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: as Missus Frank Fay. We have to wonder what in

874
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: her needed to stick by Faye way past the obvious

875
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: expiration date of the marriage. A determination to rebut the

876
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 2: Hollywood gossip's prophesying divorce, a stick to your man philosophy,

877
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: her fear of going out in society, an inability to

878
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 2: have sustained friendships with other women. Yes, yes, yes, yes,

879
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 2: and also gratitude to Frank for having supported her career

880
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 2: at a crucial time. But still, her life was actually

881
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: in danger because of his violent nature, as was that

882
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: of little Dion, about whom it must be said she

883
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: didn't seem much concerned. So he's getting increasingly. He had

884
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: kind of kept himself on a leash. He is off

885
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: the chain. He's drinking more, he is beating the shit out,

886
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: he's beating their kid too, to the extent that, like again,

887
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 2: her life is in danger being with this man. That's

888
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 2: how out of control he is. Kind of at his worst,

889
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: this isn't consistent, but when he hits rock bottom, that's

890
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: how bad this is. Right now, Again, as the New

891
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: York Times this is her obituary noted, she's not a

892
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: great mom. She's not like she's not necessarily putting the

893
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: kid first. So she's not a hero here. But Frank

894
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: is definitely the villain. And his physical abuse of Barbara

895
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: did escalate to the point where again she could have

896
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: could have killed her, and she does eventually dump his

897
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 2: ass in nineteen thirty five, and at this point when

898
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: she leaves him, it seems like he's probably heading towards

899
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: an early grave, right. He is increasingly you know, he's

900
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 2: not making money, he's not getting work. He's able to

901
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: tour some he can do, but it's like not the

902
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 2: way he had been living, and he can't, Like he

903
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: hasn't been raining in his expenses. So he is broke,

904
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 2: Like he's constantly going broke. He's gambling what he makes.

905
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: And yeah, it looks like this is kind of the end,

906
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: right And again, if this had been the end, we

907
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't do it. Behind the bastards on this guy, because

908
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 2: like he's a dick, he's an abusive husband, but like

909
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: that's just not not really the bastard story yet, like's

910
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: not me yea if we did an episode on every

911
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: famous person who was like abusive to their spouse, Yeah,

912
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 2: like that's just a different show. Not to minimize that,

913
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 2: but it's a different show. We're getting to like the

914
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 2: wild act of bastardury here, Like that's what's coming next.

915
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: So it gets worse than this, folks, it gets a

916
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: lot worse. So a big part of why Frank had

917
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: failed in Hollywood. You know, I said, it's not entirely

918
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: clear to me why I forgot I had written this

919
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: part because there is one really clear reason, which is

920
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,959
Speaker 2: that he's super anti Semitic. And the heads of most

921
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 2: of the major Hollywood studios this point are Jewish guys, right,

922
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 2: And it's the kind of thing if his movies had

923
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: been runaway hits, they probably would have ignored that because

924
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 2: they do for other guys, right, because that's Hollywood. All

925
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: do we all know about mel Gibson, right, But again,

926
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: the fact that he's a famous anti semi and that

927
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: his movies aren't doing great like is a big part

928
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: of what destroys him in Hollywood. And it's very funny

929
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: to be that there's a quote from one of his peers,

930
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 2: Milt Joseph Berg, who is you know, a Jewish comedian,

931
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: who said of him quote in a business known for

932
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: its lack of bigotry, he was a bigot. This was

933
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: no secret, but widely known and well substantiated. Right, So

934
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: he is just like that's a big part of like

935
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: why he can't get shit working for him in Hollywood.

936
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 2: And then the FDR years kickoff, right, and Frank starts

937
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: getting increasingly political. He hates FDR. He calls him a communist.

938
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: He starts going on these loud rants about the Jewish

939
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: bankers that he believes are behind all of the country's

940
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: problems and behind It's weird, like, so the Jewish bankers

941
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 2: caused the depression and also are behind FDR. Who's yeah,

942
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: got pulled us out of it? What's going on? Anyway?

943
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: He's losing his mind on alcohol here too, as his

944
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 2: old famous friends increasingly step away from him because he

945
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 2: is just he's made himself into a pariah. It's bad

946
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 2: for your career to be associated with Frank. At this point,

947
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: he finds a new friend with someone who understands him,

948
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: father Charles Kaughlin. Now We've talked about this guy before

949
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Coughlin is a Catholic priest with a

950
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: far right radio show. Who is he is a fascist.

951
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: He is a proto Nazi. He is one of the

952
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: guys who's trying to get the US to go fascist, right.

953
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: He's probably the most He is the fucking He's like

954
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: Bill O'Reilly mixed with Tucker Carlson, you know, like he

955
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: is super influential as a fascist media figure. Coughlin also

956
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 2: believed that Jewish bankers were behind every evil in the country.

957
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 2: He referred to the New Deal as the jew Deal,

958
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: and as a result, he and Frank get along famously. Yeah, like,

959
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: oh yeah, it's a match made in heaven right here.

960
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah.

961
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 2: Now you know who else gets along famously with Father

962
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: Charles Coughlin. I probably shouldn't say that. Here's ads ah

963
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 2: and we're back. I don't know why I make that

964
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 2: like that like sound every day. I just you know,

965
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: I'm vamping. It's the it's the post. You know, you

966
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: just got yourself out of the ad. We just all

967
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 2: diligently listened to the ads, bought the thing and now

968
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 2: you're decompressing.

969
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 3: Got to do it.

970
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we're decompressing, and we're hearing about his

971
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: friendship with Charles Coughlin, right, and just kind of his

972
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: this is him, this is him spinning out right in

973
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 2: the late thirties, Cliff nester Off writes, quote Face struggled

974
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: in film and radio for the next ten years after

975
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 2: his divorce from from Barbara. His appearances were spotty and

976
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 2: mostly unsuccessful. He had made too many enemies and few

977
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 2: cared to help him out. Maurice Zolotow wrote that the

978
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: self destructive pattern has hampered his career at various times.

979
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 2: He has been a vaudeville MC nightclub, comic, radio star,

980
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 2: in motion picture hero. Fay has been successful in all

981
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 2: of these. He has also been a failure in all

982
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: of these. Fay has been washed up more times than

983
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 2: any other big time star, you know, And that's that's

984
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: kind of like the state of his career at this point. Yeah,

985
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 2: for an idea of like what a famous dick this

986
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 2: guy is at this point, I probably should have put

987
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: this up earlier, but it's very funny people at a

988
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: Hollywood start telling a joke. This is kind of like

989
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: while he's still married to Barbara Stanwick, which Hollywood actor

990
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 2: has the biggest prick and the answer is Barbara Stanwick, right,

991
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,399
Speaker 2: like that, that's how people are talking about him. Right,

992
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 2: his career is over. So by the start of the

993
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: World War Two he is in particularly bad odor because

994
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: you know, he's basically a Nazi and we're going to

995
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: war with those people.

996
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: Right.

997
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: He is on the side of the America First yars

998
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 2: who lived Charles Lindberg and Father Coughlin. So this is

999
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: not nothing's it just seems like he's completely fucking doomed.

1000
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: But just as all seems lost and he is as

1001
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 2: washed up as washed up can get, in nineteen forty

1002
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: four he gets thrown a fucking life preserver, right, and

1003
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 2: it's thrown by the most esteemed director in Broadway history,

1004
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: Antoinette Perry, who is looking to put together the cast

1005
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 2: for a new play, Harvey. Have you ever seen the

1006
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 2: movie Harvey with Jimmy Stewart.

1007
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: YEP, I have not.

1008
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 2: Actually it's a great film, holds on Weirdly enough, it

1009
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 2: was filmed in like the fifties. It's written before then, right,

1010
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 2: he's doing the stage version in the forties about like

1011
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 2: mental health. Like the plot is like the guy played

1012
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: by Jimmy Staff. Forget what his fucking name is the character,

1013
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 2: but the main character is this like rich kid. He's

1014
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 2: like the oldest son of like a wealthy family, and

1015
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 2: he sees a giant talking rabbit and he's constantly talking

1016
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: with it. It follows him around. They're always at the

1017
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: bar drinking together. Elwood, by the way, Elwood, Ellwood, You're right, Elwood.

1018
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: El would doubt I think something like that. And his

1019
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: high society family and friends are trying trying to have

1020
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 2: him institutionalized, right, because he's clearly crazy, right, so they're

1021
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: trying to like get him in a mental asylum basically

1022
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: for being crazy and seeing this rabbit. And weirdly enough,

1023
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: it still holds up as a good depiction of mental

1024
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: illness because like the message of it ultimately is that like,

1025
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 2: actually Elwood's fine, and like everyone just needs to understand

1026
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: that he's just different from other people.

1027
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 3: But he's happy.

1028
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: He's not hurting anybody, he's not in any danger. He

1029
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 2: just sees a rabbit and that's okay.

1030
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 3: You know.

1031
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 2: Like it's actually got like a really modern message about

1032
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 2: like neurodiversity, and just like like the Jimmy Stewart version

1033
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: of this movie holds the fuck up. It's a great

1034
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: fucking film. You should watch Harvey, and I mean he's

1035
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 2: fucking Jimmy Stewart, great actor, weirdly enough, great bomber pilot,

1036
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: retired as a general in the Air Force. Flew like

1037
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: fifty missions in World War Two. Jimmy Stewart, quite a life.

1038
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: I'm surprised you didn't know that. I don't think I did,

1039
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: George Bailey, Jimmy Stewart during World War Two was a

1040
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 2: bomber pilot, flew missions over Western Europe, did the most

1041
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 2: dangerous job that existed in the American Army. Like he

1042
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: flew way more missions than he needed to.

1043
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 4: It's crazy, as you just said that, I must have

1044
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 4: asked the same question on a previous episode of Behind

1045
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 4: the Bastards, because that just flootered me with Deshavu.

1046
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, weirdly enough, Jimmy Stewart, great actor. Killed thousands, like

1047
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: like literally killed thousands of people. Fun guy. Anyway, So

1048
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 2: this is before the Jimmy Stewart vers This is like

1049
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: the play. It starts off as a play. The screenplay

1050
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 2: actually wins a Pulitzer Prize, right, So this is a

1051
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 2: great screenplay and Antoinette Perry is casting the very first

1052
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: time this is going to be on Broadway, and she

1053
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 2: decides that not only is Frank Fay a good fit

1054
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 2: for the play, but she wants him to play the star.

1055
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 2: He's going to be Elwood. Right, And this is a

1056
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 2: huge deal. I had said, Antoinette Perry is like the

1057
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 2: most famous director in Broadway history. Antoinette. The shortened version

1058
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 2: of Antoinette is Tony. The Tony Awards are named for

1059
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: this woman. That's that's who this is. Right. So if

1060
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: she decides this washed up anti Semite is who I

1061
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: want as my leading man, that's who's going to be

1062
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 2: her leading man, right. And she's very good at what

1063
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: she does. You know, he's a piece of shit. I'm

1064
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 2: not happy that he gets this job that reinvigorates his career,

1065
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: but he's really good. Like he headlines eighteen hundred performances.

1066
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 2: That's like for years this show is on Broadway and

1067
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: then touring. It's a massive fucking hit and it makes

1068
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 2: him rich again, and it turns him into a star again.

1069
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 2: And so by the very end of World War Two

1070
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: he has gotten a second chance stardom, like the kind

1071
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 2: of second chance that nobody gets when you are as

1072
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 2: down and out as he is, to wind up being

1073
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: the biggest name on Broadway again after a fall like that,

1074
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: it's nuts. Yeah, Now, what would you do if you

1075
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 2: were disgraced for being a massive bigot and an abusive

1076
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 2: spouse and went broke and had your career destroyed and

1077
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 2: then suddenly become rich and famous again. You know, you'd

1078
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: think probably just kind of try to enjoy it, you know,

1079
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: rebuild your career, keep quiet, chill.

1080
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 3: Out, maybe learn something about yourself growth.

1081
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 2: You learn something a better person.

1082
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, of course that's what anyone would do.

1083
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: He takes a slightly different tactic. He understands now that

1084
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: he's famous again, he's got influence and prestige and people

1085
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: listen to him. He needs to speak up for the downtrodden,

1086
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: you know, the people that no one else is going

1087
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: to bat for, right, you know, the people that just

1088
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 2: have no one else looking out for them, that that

1089
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 2: only he can really, you know, defend and protect. And

1090
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 2: obviously this is in nineteen forty five, yeah, forty six,

1091
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 2: there's no one who needs protecting more than Francisco Franco,

1092
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: the fascist dictator of Spain. Now Franco isn't in any

1093
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: real danger as World War two ends. Obviously he's fine.

1094
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 2: Anti communism immediately is how the US pivots. So he's

1095
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: not no, no, it's common for Franco. But what makes

1096
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 2: Faye angry, what makes him want to speak out in

1097
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 2: defense of Francisco Franco, is that So the Union for

1098
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,479
Speaker 2: Theater Workers for actors, and I think basically everybody who's

1099
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 2: working in the theater at this point is called Actors Equity.

1100
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 2: I don't think it's just actors. Maybe I'm wrong about that,

1101
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 2: but anyway, the SAG for theater workers, it may still be.

1102
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 2: I don't know a lot about the theater. Whatever it

1103
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 2: is to actors Equity is the Union for Theater actors, right,

1104
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 2: And so a number of members of Actors Equity. This

1105
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 2: isn't an official Actors Equity thing, but a lot of

1106
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 2: people with Actors Equity. In late nineteen forty five held

1107
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 2: a rally to raise money for a group called Spanish

1108
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 2: Refugee Appeal. Now, the Spanish Civil War had ended long ago, right,

1109
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 2: Franco is well in charge, and what the refuge Appeal is?

1110
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: Number one, they're raising money to support leftists and political

1111
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: dissidents who have had to flee Spain, and they are

1112
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 2: also begging publicly and trying to get other governments to

1113
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,919
Speaker 2: pressure FRANCO to stop arresting, torturing and murdering leftists. Right,

1114
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 2: They're specifically a big part of it is they are

1115
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 2: attacking the Catholic Church and trying to shame them because

1116
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church is actively hunting down and helping to

1117
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 2: murder leftists, right anarchists and the like, So they're unhappy

1118
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: about that and trying to stop it. Nesterhoff writes, quote

1119
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 2: Fay was furious. He said their criticism was an attack

1120
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: on Catholicism as a whole. Fay demanded Actors Equity investigate

1121
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 2: each anti FRANCO member for Unamerican activity. The House Committee

1122
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 2: on American Activities acted on face suggestion, and the Actors

1123
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: were vetted. The New York Times reported that Fay held

1124
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 2: no brief against any member of Actors Equity for political beliefs.

1125
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 2: He resented, however, that EQUITY members should be party to

1126
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: rallies that condemn religious groups. Equity president Bert Lyttel objected

1127
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: to the political investigation. Equity members have a wide latitude

1128
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: of interests and beliefs that they may practice and advocate

1129
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 2: as private citizens. Actors Equities stood by Brooks, Darling, Molina

1130
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 2: and Osato. Those are the people organizing this rally. Rather

1131
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 2: than expel them from his union, lytel cinsured Frank Fay

1132
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 2: for conduct prejudicial to the association or its membership. So

1133
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: he gets Congress to investigate these people for trying to

1134
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: raise money for fucking refugees and beg Franco in the

1135
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 2: church to stop having people murdered. And it gets them

1136
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 2: fucking investigated, and to the credit of Actors Equity in

1137
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 2: the Union head they go after Frank and they're like, no, no, no,

1138
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: you're the one being it. They're allowed to do this

1139
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 2: privately on their own. You are trying to destroy their

1140
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 2: Fuck you man, so this, you know, he gets in

1141
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 2: trouble over this, and it's a bad look, especially in

1142
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: nineteen forty five. But the fact that the Union refuses

1143
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: to back Frank's play doesn't mean no one supported him.

1144
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: There's a lot of right wing and fat just outright

1145
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 2: fascist Americans who have been kind of biting their tongues

1146
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: all of World War two and are really they're frustrated

1147
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 2: that we're allied with the USS are. They're frustrated that

1148
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 2: we're fighting the fascists. You know, they're real bummed about

1149
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 2: all of this stuff. And by the end of the war,

1150
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 2: they've been having to keep quiet for so long that

1151
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 2: they just are filled to the brim with anger at

1152
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 2: what side the US picked in this. There's also a

1153
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 2: lot of American francoists who love, you know, what Frank

1154
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: is saying about their favorite dictator who's still alive, and

1155
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,479
Speaker 2: these guys start, fascists being the same in every era,

1156
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: immediately mass mailing death threats to Actors Equity and to

1157
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 2: the guys at Actors Equity, like to the people who

1158
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: had done this rally that Frank had called out right,

1159
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: it's a very modern thing. This right wing celebrity starts

1160
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 2: complaining about a thing he doesn't like, and his fans

1161
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: start threatening to murder people on his behalf right, same

1162
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: as it ever was. Yeah, pretty standard standard stuff, right.

1163
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 2: One journalist at the time wrote, under the guys of

1164
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,439
Speaker 2: being deeply pained over the comments about the Catholic Church.

1165
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 2: These organs of native fascism have been blowing the familiar

1166
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 2: tunes in all their repulsive cacophony. They say, that the

1167
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: issue is religion, but they are no more concerned with

1168
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 2: religion than were their political masters. The cutthroats of Berlin

1169
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: consider Frank Fay himself the main attraction in the current

1170
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: whoopie do. His anti Semitism is well known, and his

1171
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: numerous brawls on that account are common gossip. Yeah, pretty good, Yeah,

1172
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: well written.

1173
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, God, imagine imagine a contemporary Oh yeah, like journalist

1174
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 4: being that good.

1175
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's unfortunately are due. Yeah, so we can

1176
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 2: look back on this and say, obviously, like that's what's happening, right,

1177
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 2: Like obviously this is like a fair description of what

1178
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 2: he's doing. But like a lot of fascists, Frank was

1179
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 2: convinced that he was right and that the rest of

1180
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 2: the world secretly agreed with him. So, drunk on his

1181
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: newfound fame and enraged with frustration at how World War

1182
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 2: Two it ended, he decided to hold a rally in

1183
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 2: January of nineteen forty six, celebrating fascism in all of

1184
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 2: its guises. Now that's a bold move in January nineteen

1185
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 2: forty six, But Frank had that special kind of brain

1186
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 2: damage that God only gives to men who get too

1187
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 2: famous for standing in front of a crowd and telling jokes.

1188
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 2: So he figured, there's no way this is going to

1189
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 2: backfire on me. Right, my career collapsed once because I'm

1190
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 2: an abusive, bigoted asshole, But it won't happen again.

1191
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 3: How could it? It never does. Yeah. Yeah.

1192
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 2: Now, if you're a fascist looking to hold a rally

1193
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: in New York City, there's only one group of assholes

1194
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 2: who suck hard enough to say yes, especially in January

1195
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 2: of nineteen forty six, and those assholes are Madison Square Garden.

1196
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean also also, you know that's a

1197
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: tried and true place for a we Nazi rally.

1198
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 3: We love it there.

1199
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, this is this is this is this

1200
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: is completely yeah, God, please don't sue us again. Can

1201
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 2: we make that joke, Sophie? Are we allowed to?

1202
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: No?

1203
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll bleep it. So Madison Square Garden agrees to

1204
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 2: host the event, which he calls the friends of Frank Fay.

1205
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 2: Let's talk about who those friends are, shall we. Organizing

1206
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 2: work is handled by the Ku Klux Klan and the

1207
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 2: American Nazi Party, which is nice to see their work

1208
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 2: in hand in hand, you know, yeah, like it's it's

1209
01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: one of those it's been so bummed when they had

1210
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 2: their out. It's just good to see, you know, the

1211
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 2: two long term hooden hand hood in hand, right, this

1212
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: is like some ship. This is like from that fucking

1213
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 2: Wolfenstein games. Yes, it's fucking crazy like the KKK and

1214
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 2: the American Nazi Party are like your stage hands and

1215
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: I handling like advertising and ship.

1216
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 3: Who's speaking? Who's speaking?

1217
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 2: Tell me? Oh, who's speak, Sophie. So many assholes.

1218
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: Now.

1219
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 2: I should note here that the last big Nazi rally

1220
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 2: in American history, right before World War Two, had been

1221
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 2: held by the German American boond in Madison Square Garden,

1222
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, and involved a bunch of Nazis. Uh doing

1223
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 2: a big rally again. Madison Square Garden loves hosting Nazi events,

1224
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: or at least did back then. I'm sure everything's fine

1225
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: in the company now. Prominent speakers at this event included

1226
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 2: Nazi propagandist Laura Ingles and no, I want to be clear,

1227
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about Laura Ingles. Wild different person, but

1228
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: she's also very right wing, but she's not speaking at

1229
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 2: this event. They just have very similar names. Laura Ingles

1230
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: was an award winning female pilot. She's like one of

1231
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 2: the first like great female pilots. She is very groundbreaking

1232
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 2: in that. And then she winds up serving two years

1233
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: in prison because she worked as an unpaid agent of

1234
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 2: the Nazi government while speaking at America First Gatherings and

1235
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 2: didn't disclose that she was a paid agent of a

1236
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 2: foreign power. That's what happens to her prior to this.

1237
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 2: So anyway, I should also know it as a fun

1238
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 2: fact because I was like, I just saw Laura Ingles

1239
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,439
Speaker 2: because I'm reading like old contemporary news artiles like Laura Ingless,

1240
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 2: is this the little aus on the Prairie? And so

1241
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 2: I like, I type into Google as I do sometimes,

1242
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: was Laura Ingles a Nazi? And obviously now when you Google,

1243
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 2: the first thing you get is their fucking AI summary.

1244
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 2: This is what the AI summary says. No, Laura Ingles,

1245
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 2: the aviator, not the author, was not a Nazi. However,

1246
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 2: she was a Nazi sympathizer. Was convicted of acting as

1247
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 2: a paid agent for Nazi Germany, And like, yeah, so

1248
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 2: why you're saying she's not she was paid for acting.

1249
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 3: She was.

1250
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 2: She went to prison for failing to register as an

1251
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 2: agent for the German government for speaking at Nazi rallies.

1252
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 2: We can't call her a Nazi, really, but you wont Gemini.

1253
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 2: But the AI said, so, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna call

1254
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 2: her a Nazi.

1255
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 3: She's a Nazi.

1256
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 2: If you go to jail for advocating for the Nazi

1257
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 2: government secretly without like and taking their money, I'm sorry,

1258
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 2: I'm not.

1259
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 3: A Nazi's fucking Nazi.

1260
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 2: She's a fucking Nazi. These tech bros think this is

1261
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 2: the sum of the picle of intelligence. This is what's

1262
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 2: going to take us to the stars. Fucking AI bullshit.

1263
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: Now.

1264
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 2: Another guest at this event was KKK member Joseph Camp

1265
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 2: and of course Camps fell with a k uh. Camp,

1266
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 2: if you haven't heard of him, was one of the

1267
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 2: chief all authors of anti Semitic propaganda in the United

1268
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:03,919
Speaker 2: States at this period of time.

1269
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 1: He is a.

1270
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 2: Massive, like Jewish World conspiracy author.

1271
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 3: Guy.

1272
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 2: There's a picture Sophie's going to show you from contemporary

1273
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 2: reporting on the event. Who introduces us to another guy

1274
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 2: at this event who happened to look just like Walt

1275
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 2: Like a lot of these guys look exactly like Walt Disney,

1276
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 2: Like literally, this Walt Disney looking motherfucker. This pencil mustache

1277
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 2: like legit wild all Walt Disney looking motherfuckers and the

1278
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 2: caption from this I think this is from the Post

1279
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 2: article another friend of Faye John Geist, notorious anti Semite

1280
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 2: and distributor of Wrathskellar pamphlets back in the Yorktown Day.

1281
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 2: I like that friend quotes friendly. Yeah. Now, here's quite

1282
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 2: a lot of reporting wrath Skeller, you know what. I

1283
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 2: should have looked that up. Let's look that up right now.

1284
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 2: Let's do it right now.

1285
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 4: I will say I forgot what punk venu is called

1286
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 4: the wrath Skeller, but I hope they're not.

1287
01:06:58,320 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 3: I hope it wasn't that kind of punk.

1288
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 2: Well, Wikipedia is telling me that it's a name for

1289
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 2: a kind of restaurant in German speaking countries. Uh oh oh,

1290
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 2: maybe it was that kind of punk bar. Yeah, maybe

1291
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 2: it is that guy that that Yeah, maybe it's just

1292
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 2: like a name for a beer garden. Yeah. Yeah, that's

1293
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 2: that's that's my guess, my best guess. Uh yikes, all right, yeah, cool,

1294
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 2: cool guy, most importantly cool.

1295
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 3: And moving on.

1296
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of reporting left to read through

1297
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 2: from this event. You can find a lot of articles

1298
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: written about it at the time, and much of it

1299
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 2: is quite funny. The New York Daily News, who is

1300
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 2: pretty positive about this event, titles they're covering nineteen thousand

1301
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 2: Fay friends jam garden to cheer anti red speeches. First off,

1302
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 2: the actual numbers more like eleven thousand, and a lot

1303
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 2: of those are protesters who are there to like Jeer

1304
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 2: and try to disrupt the event too. The Daily News

1305
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 2: was happy to carry water for Fay and included a

1306
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 2: segment in their review titled deny rac Bias. Doctor Emmanuel Josephson,

1307
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 2: who said he was of Jewish extraction, brought down the

1308
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 2: house with his attack on communism, labor unions, Karl Marx,

1309
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 2: Harold Lasky, the New Deal, the State Department, the OPA,

1310
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 2: and the more deadly of the Roosevelt species. So it's

1311
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 2: not anti semitic. They've got a Jewish guy. Great now.

1312
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 2: The New York Post not my favorite publication today, but

1313
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 2: was a much better publication back then. Right, And their

1314
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: reporting on this is actually pretty good.

1315
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 3: Right.

1316
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 2: They are unsparing about how racist this was. Quote after

1317
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 2: praising Equity as the finest organization ever put together, Fay said,

1318
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 2: there is a certain little group coming into Equity, coming

1319
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 2: not through the stage door, but through the and hear

1320
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,799
Speaker 2: his words slurred, and he may have said either south

1321
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 2: or back door. They have nothing to offer you but

1322
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 2: the bad breath of Marx. They put on some plays

1323
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 2: to capture your youth, and for God's sake, watch your children.

1324
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 2: We didn't have that when we were kids, but we've

1325
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 2: got it now. A Post reporter later asked Faye what

1326
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 2: plays he was referring to, and he didn't and he

1327
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 2: had made the statement quoted. Later, coming upon the Post

1328
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 2: reporter again, he warned him to be careful about the

1329
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 2: quotation because his address had been recorded. It's very much

1330
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 2: much modered, like I didn't say that.

1331
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 3: What do you mean?

1332
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:13,640
Speaker 2: I said that there are plays trying to reach out

1333
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 2: to w I didn't say that at all when we

1334
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 2: recorded it. So don't you dare lie to continue? As

1335
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 2: Fay went along, the clock silently slid past the one

1336
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 2: am mark, and spectators, by the score literally were sleeping

1337
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 2: in their chairs. Mcnabo too, who's one of the other hosts, too,

1338
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 2: constantly reminded the audience that every word uttered at the

1339
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 2: meeting was being recorded, and that woewen libel suits so

1340
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 2: waited those newspapers that printed stories written with smear dripping pins.

1341
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 2: They don't see anybody, right like, because again all of

1342
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 2: the racism is there. This is just a horrible it's

1343
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 2: a Nazi rally. He holds a Nazi rally in nineteen

1344
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:51,679
Speaker 2: forty six, and this backfires in every way possible. Right,

1345
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 2: this does finally destroy his.

1346
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: Career, finally doesn't work again.

1347
01:09:56,720 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 2: No, he never works again. There are like one of

1348
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 2: the jokes, I forget exactly who says this, but it's

1349
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,799
Speaker 2: another famous comedian who is like I saw him walking

1350
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 2: like holding his own hand down lover's lane. That's how

1351
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 2: lonely he is at the end of his life. He

1352
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 2: dies in Santa Monica in nineteen sixty one at the

1353
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 2: age of sixty nine and is ostensibly unloved or unwarned. Yeah, yeah,

1354
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 2: that he gets to live in a nice part of

1355
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 2: the world and longer, although not that long for hardcore

1356
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 2: alcoholic it's not doing bad now. I read a lot

1357
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 2: of George Burns, who's a famous comedian, like talking about

1358
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 2: the Fay for this column, and Burns is a guy

1359
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 2: who talks a lot about like Fay's talents and what

1360
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 2: he was good at. But Burns also talks about like

1361
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 2: all the things that sucked about him, right, And so

1362
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 2: here's here in this episode, here's a quote from George

1363
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 2: Burns on Faye at late in life. Fay hated Jews,

1364
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,600
Speaker 2: but he was very religious. He used to eat at

1365
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 2: the Brown Derby and I used to watch just before

1366
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: his food came, I would sit down and start to

1367
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: mention people that are dead. I'd say Tom Fitzpatrick isn't

1368
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 2: with us anymore. He'd bless him and say a prayer.

1369
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,680
Speaker 2: I'd mentioned five or six more people, and when his

1370
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 2: food got cold, I'd leave. And so that's that's how

1371
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 2: Burns gets some revenge on him, is he'll just like

1372
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 2: hang out whatever he's eating and like sit down and

1373
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 2: talk about all the people who have died recently. So

1374
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 2: that because he knows he's got to like do a

1375
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 2: little just to ruin his meal. It's a kind of

1376
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 2: petty we should all seek to embody. But it's also

1377
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 2: like such a bizarre interaction because it's like, you hate

1378
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,640
Speaker 2: this guy because he is an unreformed anti semi.

1379
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you're still doing banter with him.

1380
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're doing to his day, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no,

1381
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: I know. But but it's just like a thing where

1382
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 2: they still have the type of relationship where there's banter, right,

1383
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 2: I find that. I mean, listen, I guess, I guess

1384
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 2: we're just too polarized now.

1385
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 3: But it's very weird.

1386
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 4: It's been a minute since I've just had a little

1387
01:11:58,120 --> 01:11:59,799
Speaker 4: joke with a Nazi, is what I'm saying.

1388
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 2: Well, and that's, you know, one of the many things

1389
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:06,560
Speaker 2: we like about you, Andrew tu And that is my

1390
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 2: general best practices is don't don't joke around with the Nazis,

1391
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,799
Speaker 2: don't socialize with Nazis, don't argue with Nazis, don't debate them.

1392
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 2: There are some things you should do to Nazis, but

1393
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 2: we can't talk about that on the podcast in the

1394
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 2: political climate.

1395
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 4: So yeah, nothing is being advocated.

1396
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,679
Speaker 2: You know. Anyway, how do you feel about this guy

1397
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 2: coming in?

1398
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I I it's this is this is

1399
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 4: interesting because it is like I mean, as I said

1400
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 4: in part one, it is like shocking to me because

1401
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 4: you know what it is is because I was born

1402
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 4: in a time, you know, like you, I think we're

1403
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 4: talking about this where we had come out of perceiving

1404
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 4: the stand up that the seventies, the like, you know,

1405
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 4: the Carlin's and Kaufman's of the world had kind of

1406
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 4: left left our doorstep. Yeah, made stand Up seem to

1407
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 4: the extent that it was political, did not seem like

1408
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 4: like I guess what I mean is like to me

1409
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 4: from my perception, stand Up has taken a big right

1410
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 4: wing like turn in my lifetime. Yeah, and it is

1411
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 4: interesting to learn that this may simply be reverting to

1412
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:22,639
Speaker 4: the mean.

1413
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 2: Well, like it's at least I think it's more accurate

1414
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 2: to say there have always been those kinds of guys

1415
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: in comedy because Milton Borough, we're talking about how a

1416
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 2: lot of people hated him, he was not personally super

1417
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 2: well loved, and you know, his career is destroyed in

1418
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 2: large part due to how much of a bigot he is.

1419
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 2: But this has always been there, and it's always been

1420
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 2: like significant, Yeah, I think, yeah, right, I think what

1421
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 2: it is is that there has always been a sign

1422
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 2: an audience that craves this type of guy, and we

1423
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 2: see it now, this is this is the you know, well,

1424
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 2: there's honestly probably all of the top podcasts besides you

1425
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 2: have that audience. Not direly true, but it's not like

1426
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:12,839
Speaker 2: as far off as it would be. Nice if it were, right. Yeah,

1427
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 2: it's just like like there was a massive audience for

1428
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 2: I mean even just like speaking comedic terms, as we've

1429
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 2: talked a couple of times for punching down, Like there

1430
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 2: is a huge idea, but there's an appetite for it.

1431
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, and although of course, you know, if you're really

1432
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 4: going to strike down, you want to you want to.

1433
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 3: Do an elbow down.

1434
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 2: I think, right people, right, people, punching is is not

1435
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 2: as efficient, no, no, no, and just you know, try

1436
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 2: to find someone shorter than you. That's always the easiest

1437
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 2: person to hit.

1438
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

1439
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying this constantly.

1440
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 3: But like like so, so I think that's it.

1441
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 4: It's just that that there's always been this audience and

1442
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 4: the perception that like comedy spoke truth to power, as

1443
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 4: it were, is like really just the fabrication.

1444
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 3: It's it's capable of, but it doesn't do it. You know.

1445
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:07,640
Speaker 4: Inherently, comedy is more about just making fun of the

1446
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 4: people you hate. Sometimes those people deserve.

1447
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, Frank Fae being a great example, righteah exactly.

1448
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, yes, fucking illuminating.

1449
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 2: Fucking illuminating and illuminated fucking wait no, it doesn't work anyway.

1450
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 2: Uh podcast, do you get anything to plug?

1451
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 4: Uh?

1452
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 3: You know, I do a podcast called Josi's Racist. We

1453
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 3: have a premium show that's.

1454
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 4: Much more fun called yoak when we live where we

1455
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 4: don't talk about racism. Yeah, yeah, that's it. I don't know, right, Yeah,

1456
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 4: it's I don't know.

1457
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 2: Ever killed anyboddy.

1458
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 3: Uh you know what not that I know?

1459
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I've never done it. We always asked that

1460
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 2: at the Enity episodes. Yea, we ask actually every single guest.

1461
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 2: We've just had to edit out all the other time

1462
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 2: we've done it because every other person who's guested on

1463
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 2: the show has has admitted to a murder. That's a

1464
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 2: fun behind the bastards fact, folks. Sometimes there's sometimes there's

1465
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 2: just a long pause, and even that's incriminating.

1466
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta be able to say

1467
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 3: no right away. Yeah.

1468
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Anyway, Prosecutors, please arrest and prosecute all of our

1469
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 2: former guests for murder except for Andrew T. You know, innocent,

1470
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 2: Andrew innocent.

1471
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 3: Andrew T innocent.

1472
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Sophie's not speaking up, so this must be

1473
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,680
Speaker 2: okay for me to say anyway. That's about it. For

1474
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 2: us here today at Behind the Bastards. Ladies, gentlemen, them's,

1475
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 2: and other pronouns types of people. Go have a good

1476
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 2: weekend or have a bad weekend. It's pretty bad times

1477
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 2: right now. But I hope your weekend's good unless you're bad. No, Sophie,

1478
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 2: why why why? In the podcast, podcasts don't need to end.

1479
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 2: We can just keep going, we can keep vent.

1480
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1481
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1482
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1483
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1484
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:22,480
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1485
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1486
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 1: at Behind the Bastards.