Speaker 1: Comedy Saved Me.
Speaker 2: I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to another episode of Comedy
Speaker 2: Saved Me. My guest today is a comedian, a writer,
Speaker 2: and podcaster who's been on a serious role as of late.
Speaker 2: He's written for The Onion, Conan and After Midnight with
Speaker 2: Taylor Tomlinson, and most recently, he was in the room
Speaker 2: for the Oscars. He was named a Just for Laughs
Speaker 2: new Face in twenty twenty two, which is no small feat.
Speaker 2: His stand up has appeared on Comedy Central and Don't
Speaker 2: Tell Comedy, and Vulture just named him you one of
Speaker 2: the comedians you should know, which you should know? I agree,
Speaker 2: Oh it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: By the way, he's also the host of a brand
Speaker 2: new podcast called Help Me Be Black, a podcast about
Speaker 2: growing up with white parents and the cultural catch up
Speaker 2: that ensues. And he also has one of the most
Speaker 2: infectious laughs, by the way, that I've ever heard, you know,
Speaker 2: the kind of laugh when someone laughs you just hear
Speaker 2: them laugh and you start laughing. So I'm very excited
Speaker 2: to welcome our next guest coming up next, Skyler Higgley.
Speaker 2: He's right here on Comedy Save Me, Don't Go Anywhere,
Speaker 2: Comedy Saved Me Skyler Higley. Welcome to Comedy Save Me.
Speaker 2: It's great to meet you.
Speaker 1: Hi, nice to meet you. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me. The intro is so nice, and I do
Speaker 1: my laugh. It did get me, I wouldn't say into trouble,
Speaker 1: but on after midnight I got a little bit of shit.
Speaker 1: For when I'm laughing in the other room, if we
Speaker 1: split up the writers, you can hear me laughing at
Speaker 1: stuff from the other room, and I think I have, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: a good, big laugh. And so people would be mad
Speaker 1: because they'd be like, yeah, they're having so much fun
Speaker 1: in that other room, and you know, they'd be upset
Speaker 1: about whatever is happening because they'd be trying to focus
Speaker 1: on whatever their work is. And then here I am
Speaker 1: laughing down the hall and I'm like, what do they
Speaker 1: do in there?
Speaker 2: It's a boisterous laugh. Well, you know what, they're just
Speaker 2: jealous because they're not having as much fun as you are.
Speaker 1: Well, and they said that, they said, we're jealous, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if yeah, but it's not. It's just
Speaker 1: how I laugh. I'm not doing it on purpose. I'm
Speaker 1: not pulling it out. That's just how my voice goes.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm kind of a geek for voices because I've
Speaker 2: been doing voice work for a few decades and my
Speaker 2: best friend growing up, Scott, had one of those laughs
Speaker 2: that you have, and I used to always try to
Speaker 2: figure out how I could bottle it and sell it
Speaker 2: because it just makes people so happy. You could just
Speaker 2: go on stage, Skylar and laugh and then you could
Speaker 2: be done.
Speaker 1: And oh man, you have.
Speaker 2: To write it.
Speaker 1: All I needed in my life was my own laughs.
Speaker 1: Then I think that I would. I would, I'd never
Speaker 1: have started doing any of the things that I'm doing. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I need everybody else's and I want everybody else to
Speaker 1: be laughing like me. But yeah, I would. I would
Speaker 1: be such a better person if I didn't desperately need
Speaker 1: everybody else to laugh.
Speaker 2: Also, Oh come on, now, you got to give yourself
Speaker 2: some credit. Well, can you take us back to the
Speaker 2: beginning of that laugh and when comedy first showed up
Speaker 2: in your life and did it feel like a calling
Speaker 2: or more like a coping mechanism for you?
Speaker 1: Whoa big question out the gate bolts bolts for sure,
Speaker 1: because I was so interested in you know, you would
Speaker 1: see things on Comedy Central and these people going up
Speaker 1: and being an actor is somewhat made sense. You know,
Speaker 1: that's like they're doing roles or whatever. But when you
Speaker 1: first see comedy, you're like, so that that person is
Speaker 1: just going up there and saying stuff and people are
Speaker 1: making them laugh and that is and that's their job
Speaker 1: and people did people pay them for that? And it
Speaker 1: was really interesting because I was like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to have a normal job. I don't if I can
Speaker 1: grow up and do that and that can be a job,
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to do a job.
Speaker 1: But of course it felt like a big coping mechanism
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, where is that socializing? Wanting
Speaker 1: people to like me, feeling like I needed people to
Speaker 1: like me. So as with everything, it's kind of both
Speaker 1: because it's like, well, the reason why you might aspire
Speaker 1: to that is because you might feel like if that's
Speaker 1: if people are a group of people are loving one
Speaker 1: person and that really seems like something you want, maybe
Speaker 1: it could possibly be because you were feeling like you
Speaker 1: are not being as loved as you would like to
Speaker 1: be by the people around you. So to answer your
Speaker 1: question both that was deep. Actually would you have to
Speaker 1: be no?
Speaker 2: But I mean, but it makes a lot of sense
Speaker 2: and I and I often wonder thankfully people turn to
Speaker 2: comedy when they feel that way as opposed to something
Speaker 2: else that would be plainful to you or people around you.
Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, I mean I could have. Also, I've
Speaker 1: been a cult leader. I think I could have gotten
Speaker 1: that way you could have.
Speaker 2: It almost seems like anyone can be these days.
Speaker 1: Well, I know, it's like the bearer to entry is
Speaker 1: way too low for me. And oh leader, now it sucks.
Speaker 1: You should have to be like charismatic at this point.
Speaker 2: I have to have a little bit of that. What
Speaker 2: was the moment though, that you thought you I could
Speaker 2: actually do this for a living and make a living
Speaker 2: at it? Was there a moment.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there was one moment. I think
Speaker 1: there was a series of moments that it was a
Speaker 1: natural thing that I was always doing when I was
Speaker 1: in school. I was making little comic books for my
Speaker 1: friends to try to make them laugh and passing them out.
Speaker 1: I was always doing that thing where you sit your
Speaker 1: family down and kind of perform for them. I was
Speaker 1: we would have a thing in my I remember my
Speaker 1: fourth grade class. My teacher had all the kids sort
Speaker 1: of do this like journal kind of thing in the
Speaker 1: morning and write down, write based on a prompt, and
Speaker 1: I would always try to make mine as funny as
Speaker 1: possible because we were all going to present them. So
Speaker 1: I was always just trying to make the other kids
Speaker 1: around laugh. So it is in any situation where I
Speaker 1: was able to do that, I think because laughing, just
Speaker 1: making other people laugh felt so affirming. I was really
Speaker 1: always trying to, you.
Speaker 2: Know, get that feeling.
Speaker 1: I have a distinct memory of as watching Friends with
Speaker 1: my family, somebody said something and everybody laughed, and then
Speaker 1: I literally on the show, you know, and then I
Speaker 1: literally just repeated what was on the show, and then
Speaker 1: my whole family, who was gathered around the TV, they
Speaker 1: all laughed at me, and I was like, whoa, so
Speaker 1: that's something that feels good. Yeah, And then I think
Speaker 1: later in the show somebody said screw you, and my
Speaker 1: family laughed at that, and then I tried to repeat that,
Speaker 1: and then my family was like, no, hey, don't say that.
Speaker 2: You're grounded.
Speaker 1: But it was like funny, Like that moment of like
Speaker 1: one of my earliest moments of being like, oh, say
Speaker 1: a funny thing, people laugh, that's fun and and then
Speaker 1: immediately finding there was a line to it where it's
Speaker 1: like we just laughed at them, saying, now you don't
Speaker 1: want me to say it. I didn't know what anybody was.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that meant. So I thought, look,
Speaker 1: it's another thing that people laughed at, and I could
Speaker 1: make you laugh. I repeat that again, And then I
Speaker 1: learned a lot of lessons in terms of context and
Speaker 1: who can say what and boundaries, yeah, and boundaries, and
Speaker 1: also and then also just like repeating a bit too much.
Speaker 1: You know, things are less funny the more you repeat them,
Speaker 1: so that the first time it felt like a surprise,
Speaker 1: which is why it was funny, And the second time
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, no, he's picking up things and he
Speaker 1: shouldn't pick up We shouldn't have laughed at that the
Speaker 1: first time, and you know, and being so being like,
Speaker 1: don't repeat your bas too much.
Speaker 2: Now, did you. Wow, that's an early lesson that to
Speaker 2: incorporate into a young comedian's mind who doesn't even know
Speaker 2: he's a comedian yet, which I think is right.
Speaker 1: That's I internalize it at the time, but I think
Speaker 1: it was like early on where it's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: a lesson to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also did you find that you got away
Speaker 2: with more when you could make your parents laugh totally.
Speaker 1: I think I think you generally, well, that's what I
Speaker 1: found in school more than anything else, is you can
Speaker 1: get away with way more if you're making them laugh
Speaker 1: and your teachers and stuff laugh, because I think it's
Speaker 1: also like, yes, you can be distracting or whatever. There's
Speaker 1: a real balance to being a class clown. And sometimes
Speaker 1: I went too far in one direction. But if the
Speaker 1: teachers are laughing at it, they're not really going to
Speaker 1: be mad at you, because teaching is really hard and
Speaker 1: they're doing a lot a lot of work, and so
Speaker 1: if you're kind of making them enjoy their time a
Speaker 1: little bit, they're not really going to be mad at you.
Speaker 1: They are like, okay, theerious legal like come on, like
Speaker 1: we do have to do this work or whatever. But
Speaker 1: if you're getting your work done and your the key
Speaker 1: to being a class clown is also being a pretty
Speaker 1: good student, yeah, because then they're not going to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: you you're doing all this instead of getting your work done.
Speaker 1: If your work is done and right, and then you're
Speaker 1: also kind of being a class clown, then they don't
Speaker 1: really don't really care.
Speaker 2: No, they don't and it's and it's really cool, like
Speaker 2: you know, making friends like that as well. I used
Speaker 2: to be so jealous of all the kids that did
Speaker 2: that because, yeah, number one, usually they were always smarter
Speaker 2: than me, and they didn't even have to show up
Speaker 2: for tests because they did everything in advance and they
Speaker 2: made the teachers laugh, and I was like, there's something
Speaker 2: to that. There's definitely something to that. And performing for
Speaker 2: your parents too, Like I remember stuffing like toilet paper
Speaker 2: in my clothes to look like the Michel entire Man
Speaker 2: or something, and you know, and then making my brother
Speaker 2: do it, and he was like, come on, I just
Speaker 2: just to make them laugh and then to stay up late.
Speaker 2: We would you know, do whatever we could to keep
Speaker 2: them laughing so they would forget it was time to
Speaker 2: go to bed. So right, all happening. Yeah, but you
Speaker 2: had an interesting scenario.
Speaker 1: I did. I had a really interesting scenario. I was adopted,
Speaker 1: and you know, I was adopted by white Mormon parents,
Speaker 1: so the whole you know, there were a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of rules. And that's also something that was
Speaker 1: interesting with comedy is where the boundaries were, because it
Speaker 1: would be like, sometimes it's not okay to watch the
Speaker 1: Simpsons and it's really inappropriate. I remember that being like
Speaker 1: the thing, like the Simpsons is really inappropriate, you can't
Speaker 1: watch the Simpsons. And then also I remember in my
Speaker 1: childhood watching a good amount of the Simpsons.
Speaker 2: So to say, how do you avoid that?
Speaker 1: It was kind of It's interesting because the rules were
Speaker 1: one way and they were totally real, following the rules
Speaker 1: good Mormons. But also my parents at the time when
Speaker 1: I was young. I think they adopted me at like
Speaker 1: twenty three or twenty four or twenty two and twenty
Speaker 1: three or something, so they were pretty young when they
Speaker 1: did that. So it's not like people at that age,
Speaker 1: you know, I think of I just turned thirty now,
Speaker 1: I think of people being that young trying to raise
Speaker 1: children and is insane to me. So it's like, of course,
Speaker 1: they weren't always sticking to the rules as you seek
Speaker 1: it as much as they could have wanted to, I guess.
Speaker 2: But that's not a bad thing. I mean that definitely
Speaker 2: shaped How did that shape your comedic voice and things
Speaker 2: that you felt compelled to talk about on stage.
Speaker 1: In terms of consuming media or just in terms of
Speaker 1: like what my parents were just.
Speaker 2: You know, growing up with parents that were so different
Speaker 2: than probably your friend's parents.
Speaker 1: I didn't know. Well, I grew up in Salt Lake City,
Speaker 1: so my friend my parents were not different from my
Speaker 1: friend's parents. They were all the same. I was the
Speaker 1: different one, and I knew, you know, you start to
Speaker 1: get a sense that you're different pretty early on, and
Speaker 1: that it being a big topic of conversation in our house.
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily know it's weird because because I was
Speaker 1: sort of fish out of water, isolated, I was made
Speaker 1: to feel different than everybody else and we had a
Speaker 1: different situation going on. I didn't really because it was
Speaker 1: my family. I didn't really think about it that much
Speaker 1: growing up of like how different in adopted or blended
Speaker 1: family is racially. And then as I start to get older,
Speaker 1: you start to realize, you know, maybe middle school to
Speaker 1: teenage years, like, oh yeah, most people aren't adopted. It's
Speaker 1: actually not something that's happening in families. You know that
Speaker 1: much of course it happens. And then getting even older
Speaker 1: than that, realizing that the whole girl of just being
Speaker 1: within the Salt Lake City Mormon world is that is
Speaker 1: actually the exception to the rule of how, you know,
Speaker 1: the standard most people are living by that everybody is
Speaker 1: all kinds of religions, and there's all kinds of people
Speaker 1: throughout these United States, where when you're growing up in
Speaker 1: such an insulated community, you go, this is the norm
Speaker 1: these we've established. But the only reason why is because
Speaker 1: they famously were pioneers and went across the plains and
Speaker 1: like established their new norm because nobody wanted them anywhere else.
Speaker 1: So that was interesting growing up and getting to the
Speaker 1: point of finding out how truly weird you are in
Speaker 1: context where it's like, okay, so this sum announce that
Speaker 1: are here, and this is oh wait, no, this is
Speaker 1: actually oh this is so I wasn't that abnormal. It
Speaker 1: was just a complete shift in the contextual overton window
Speaker 1: of what norms are. It was just interesting to find out.
Speaker 1: And so then yeah, there was a lot of unpacking
Speaker 1: to do after that.
Speaker 2: There is I mean, I don't want to say I
Speaker 2: have anything close to a story like yours, but when
Speaker 2: you're young and you're different, like I grew up and
Speaker 2: I was like the only Jewish kid in the neighborhood,
Speaker 2: so I was relentlessly made fun of, but I thought
Speaker 2: everyone was just like me, and I also sort of
Speaker 2: looked like everyone else so it wasn't as difficult. But
Speaker 2: I feel like you and I grew up in a
Speaker 2: time that you know, you really didn't pay attention to
Speaker 2: that until you had to pay attention to that, like school,
Speaker 2: enter children, and then all hell breaks loose because you
Speaker 2: know that's where you get your thick skin from. But
Speaker 2: it's it's amazing how you can be so different but
Speaker 2: yet not realize it at all, and you almost want
Speaker 2: to go back to those days sometimes, like where you
Speaker 2: just everybody doesn't think like me or talk like me
Speaker 2: or look like me, and and that you turned it
Speaker 2: into comedy is the best part of all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that it became pretty necessary. I think because,
Speaker 1: like you know, the I feel like I knew I
Speaker 1: was pretty different pretty young, like my first day of preschool,
Speaker 1: which is the first time you go out anywhere you
Speaker 1: remember that far back well because of the story I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you, Okay, my first day of preschool, I
Speaker 1: was there and like some random kid, I had no
Speaker 1: there was like we were all just there's like super new.
Speaker 1: This is basically my only memory from this time. But
Speaker 1: then this random kid just runs up to me and goes,
Speaker 1: I hate you and everybody else seemed like fine, and
Speaker 1: this kid like sort of went out of his way
Speaker 1: to be like I hate you. Now. Do I know
Speaker 1: for a fact that was Rachel. I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: I was getting attention in a different way, but it
Speaker 1: was a moment of like, this is sort of right away,
Speaker 1: and this is kind of how everything it's sort of
Speaker 1: how everything kind of unfolded in life in terms of
Speaker 1: like being at school. There's the differences, I guess, but
Speaker 1: I think when you're young and you just don't know
Speaker 1: what I mean, any of it means you have no
Speaker 1: context and there is just the basics of all you
Speaker 1: know is that there might be some difference that like
Speaker 1: you can't quite put your finger on, and I think
Speaker 1: people react to that. So I definitely knew that, but
Speaker 1: I just you know, you don't know how far it goes,
Speaker 1: and you don't know the reasons. You don't know any
Speaker 1: of the reasons why anybody's acting any kind of way.
Speaker 1: You go, Okay, I think this is this must be
Speaker 1: I guess normal, and then you find out it's not.
Speaker 2: And then you just turn lemons into lemonade, and yeah,
Speaker 2: you start writing for some very different rooms. You've got
Speaker 2: the onion Conan After Midnight the oscars recently, which is
Speaker 2: that little show there. I mean, how does your brain
Speaker 2: shift from when you're writing for different formats or different voices,
Speaker 2: Because that's a lot, and congratulations for all of that work.
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks, It is a lot, but it's also not
Speaker 1: what am I trying to say. I think that's sort
Speaker 1: of the core of comedy and its functionality is relatively
Speaker 1: the same, and it's really just the It's like saying,
Speaker 1: maybe to a musician where it's like you playing rock
Speaker 1: or a classical worry playing jazz or something like that,
Speaker 1: where it's like you know what you're doing. You have
Speaker 1: all the same notes and keys, but you're just playing
Speaker 1: in different scales and different in different genre. So it
Speaker 1: just doing certain things at certain times and having a
Speaker 1: different kind of voice just lends itself to different things.
Speaker 1: And if you are a writer, you figure out how
Speaker 1: to take your own voice and kind of go, well,
Speaker 1: this is what I can contribute over here, this is
Speaker 1: how I help you. Know. What I'm able to do
Speaker 1: for Conan, let's say, is very different than to what
Speaker 1: I'm able to do for After Midnight, which is a
Speaker 1: much younger show that was about the Internet. And all
Speaker 1: this stuff, and the OSCARS is about like movies and
Speaker 1: sort of much more broad mainstream kind of situation. So
Speaker 1: there's a different like window of what the norms are
Speaker 1: and what people like and what tonally people are going
Speaker 1: to accept and why, But it is all in a
Speaker 1: sense the same like there is I think just being
Speaker 1: also the generation that I am growing up on a
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff that was TV, but being around
Speaker 1: before the start of the Internet and internet comedy and
Speaker 1: sort of a younger sensibility gives you a great way
Speaker 1: to kind of see the arc of when certain jokes
Speaker 1: are totally appropriate, the way you want to say certain jokes,
Speaker 1: what points everybody wants to make, the way people think
Speaker 1: about things, and that's all just kind of being sort
Speaker 1: of socially aware too at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: But Yeah, to me, it's like walking through a minefield,
Speaker 2: because I would be I'd break out in a sweat,
Speaker 2: like the guy from Airplane when he's trying to land
Speaker 2: the plane. It's just water spurt out everywhere. What's your
Speaker 2: writing process, Like, are you a notebook guide? You do
Speaker 2: you do voice memos or I like that you kind
Speaker 2: of compared it to music, which was kind of a
Speaker 2: really cool comparison. Do you do workshop everything on stage?
Speaker 2: Like Joan Rivers, she'd come out on stage on a
Speaker 2: random night somewhere in New York City and throw, you know,
Speaker 2: notes down jokes on the floor so she could look
Speaker 2: down and pick a joke and then see the response
Speaker 2: from people, and you know, I'd see her crumple one
Speaker 2: up and throw it off the stage if no one laughed.
Speaker 2: What is your process?
Speaker 1: Interesting? It's different for different things. My process is very
Speaker 1: what a lot of it is centered around what do
Speaker 1: I need to do in the short term, Like it's
Speaker 1: kind of thing depending like coming up, I'm going to
Speaker 1: record another stand up set soon, so then I'm focusing
Speaker 1: kaya more on Okay, so let's work out the stand
Speaker 1: up so that will be very notebookie or premises sometimes
Speaker 1: will be voice memos. But also I think of your brain.
Speaker 1: I've been saying your brain is just a muscle that
Speaker 1: generates ideas, and it does a lot of other stuff
Speaker 1: regularly to nervous system and whatever, well all that bullshit,
Speaker 1: but it's constantly going to be coming up with ideas.
Speaker 1: An idea is simply just an idea, and you there
Speaker 1: is so many avenues in comedy, especially now, for an
Speaker 1: idea to be manifested into a sketch or a something
Speaker 1: or whatever, and sometimes it's nothing. So a lot of
Speaker 1: the process is just like letting all that stuff come out,
Speaker 1: writing it down and getting that in that place. And
Speaker 1: then if you are looking for an idea, like I do,
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time sometimes just going back
Speaker 1: through my notes and going, Okay, what could this be?
Speaker 1: And then there's also saying things in person to people.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you go that's something I should write down. Have
Speaker 1: been on some podcasts recently. There are a couple jokes
Speaker 1: that I've just stead in conversation based on the kind
Speaker 1: of setup to what's going on that felt specific enough
Speaker 1: that I was like, you know what, I think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna maybe try that out on stage. How do you remember, in.
Speaker 2: The middle of a podcast you hold that thought, I
Speaker 2: gotta write something down here.
Speaker 1: Honestly, to go back to go back to my Mormon roots.
Speaker 1: It's a still small voice inside that whispers to me,
Speaker 1: that goes there's just a spidey sense of like that's
Speaker 1: something it is a Now I feel like I'm getting
Speaker 1: very spiritual, but I'm like, it's like a slaver. It's
Speaker 1: like a vibe. It's like a you feel you don't know,
Speaker 1: you don't know what it is before you're there and
Speaker 1: you can try to get to it, which is this
Speaker 1: sitting down and writing part if you are coming at
Speaker 1: it fresh. I don't have like a specific writing process.
Speaker 1: When I'm very specifically working on something, then it's maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit more structured depending on where it is.
Speaker 1: But like my process for Onion headlines is much different
Speaker 1: than my process for sketch, stand up or whatever.
Speaker 2: That's so cool. I mean, do you ever does has
Speaker 2: anyone ever sent you an Onion headline like a meme
Speaker 2: or a text just not realizing that you had written.
Speaker 1: That's happened a handful of times, I'm sure most of
Speaker 1: most of the time. What's happened a lot more is
Speaker 1: people have set me stuff guessing that was that you?
Speaker 1: Was that you? And then I go, no, it's not.
Speaker 2: Don't you love that?
Speaker 1: I get that sometimes right, yeah, and you're like, no,
Speaker 1: that's a that's no, it's not. But I thank you
Speaker 1: for thinking of me, thank you for thinking that I
Speaker 1: could I could do it.
Speaker 2: You know, well, I have an example for you, Skylark,
Speaker 2: how about this all right, So the Oscars is one
Speaker 2: of the most watched nights in entertainment. What's the experience like?
Speaker 2: Take us into the writer's room. You already said it
Speaker 2: kind of up front. You know you're in the writer's room.
Speaker 2: If you have a huge laugh attack, you're obviously going
Speaker 2: to alienate yourself from half the writers who are mad
Speaker 2: that you're funny or funnier. But what's the pressure feel
Speaker 2: like when you know, like literally a billion people are
Speaker 2: going to hear your joke?
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't think we're internalizing that. Really, I don't think. No,
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't. There is the first time, and especially
Speaker 1: as we got right into the show, that pressure starts
Speaker 1: to build. But like the people who are writers, everybody
Speaker 1: who was writers with on the team that I was on,
Speaker 1: which was this the Conen writing team, they are so
Speaker 1: seasoned and so experienced and so good that and have
Speaker 1: been doing it for so long you know that it's
Speaker 1: it's nobody's really getting stressed out. You get stressed out
Speaker 1: in the same what you get neurotic about what feels
Speaker 1: right and whatever. But I don't think we're super nervous
Speaker 1: and we I think personally i'd be more nervous if
Speaker 1: I was the one that I had to go out
Speaker 1: there and do it. But we are sort of right
Speaker 1: as the oscars are happening. Right at showtime, we're sort
Speaker 1: of situation rooming in the background and kind of just
Speaker 1: being like, Okay, how's it gonna go? How's it gonna go?
Speaker 1: That is the time when we're the most nervous. The
Speaker 1: rest of the process is relatively fun because we're writing
Speaker 1: jokes every day. We're trying to pitch bits every day
Speaker 1: running up to it, and it starts to because we
Speaker 1: work on it for the three months, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of it goes to January to whatever the Oscars is.
Speaker 1: So everything's kind of abstract and blue sky early on,
Speaker 1: and that it congeals more and more and more as
Speaker 1: we get up to show time and as we're following
Speaker 1: the tone of how the awards race is kind of going,
Speaker 1: as we're following the news, as we're following how the
Speaker 1: industry's going, and so it's kind of so we can
Speaker 1: have what feels like a good reflection of the time
Speaker 1: and do comedy that feels both evergreen and like this
Speaker 1: is what this is, what this year means in terms
Speaker 1: of movies and the film and industry. So it is fun.
Speaker 1: There's not there's pressure involved, of course, but like Conan's
Speaker 1: such a pro. Conan's writers are such pros that it's
Speaker 1: not they've done it before in big shows before that,
Speaker 1: so it's it's really not that scary. No.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine it being so much fun that
Speaker 2: I don't even know how I would be able to
Speaker 2: get anything done. And just thinking about Conan alone, like
Speaker 2: just mentioning his name makes me want to laugh. So
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine what it must be like to
Speaker 2: work with him and write with his team.
Speaker 1: He is the reason, and he understands this. He is
Speaker 1: the reason why a lot of times we're not getting
Speaker 1: anything done is the writers. People will sit there and we're,
Speaker 1: you know, we're writing, and then he'll kick the door
Speaker 1: in and do anywhere from fifteen to two hours and
Speaker 1: forty five minutes of looking around and riffing that. You're like, okay,
Speaker 1: that's great, Can you stop.
Speaker 2: I gotta get work done.
Speaker 1: Yeah. At a certain point we kind of sit there
Speaker 1: and then sometimes you know, he will go for a
Speaker 1: while and it'll be lower energy and he'll still just
Speaker 1: be like kind of hanging out and it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but we don't really we're not getting real work done
Speaker 1: while you're in here. And he knows that, so he
Speaker 1: just likes to have conversations about, you know, the direction
Speaker 1: he's going with stuff, what he's trying to do. He's
Speaker 1: he's great in so many ways because he's a very
Speaker 1: very silly man, as we all know. But he's also
Speaker 1: a very thoughtful guy in terms of comedy and in
Speaker 1: terms of how it should be done and the bar
Speaker 1: that we're trying to clear in terms of comedy, especially
Speaker 1: for what we're doing, and he has a lot of
Speaker 1: conversations about that, and you know, and will come in
Speaker 1: and sort of rally the troops and encourage the writers
Speaker 1: and go, it's never too late to come up with
Speaker 1: an amazing idea. Always be coming up with the idea
Speaker 1: is it's and he's all about sort of staying limber
Speaker 1: but like kind of you never know, and let's just
Speaker 1: like make get happen.
Speaker 3: And it just the way that he goes about doing it,
Speaker 3: I think is what leads to really good comedy because
Speaker 3: it's not like him coming in being like pressure, pressure, pressure,
Speaker 3: do a good job, do a good job.
Speaker 1: Do a good job. He goes, He comes in and
Speaker 1: he goes, I know that you guys are great. I
Speaker 1: know that you can do an amazing job. Just continue
Speaker 1: to be trying your best, thinking of all these ways.
Speaker 1: But we're knocking it out of the park. I'm really
Speaker 1: happened the last two years especially, he's been really like
Speaker 1: that leading up to the show no more and more,
Speaker 1: and it's it's been. It's just a really fun process
Speaker 1: to be a part of that.
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. I would love to be a
Speaker 2: fly on the wall now. Skyler being named just for
Speaker 2: Laugh's new face is a real industry stamp of approval.
Speaker 2: Did that change everything for you or the way that
Speaker 2: rooms looked at you or the you looked at yourself.
Speaker 1: No, that's an easy one. No, no, no, no, well because
Speaker 1: and not to go too into the weeds of the
Speaker 1: comedy industry, but it has changed especially I would say
Speaker 1: the two big demarcations is post twenty sixteen. Around then
Speaker 1: the twenty tens were sort of the peak of the
Speaker 1: way comedy industry is working before and then COVID and
Speaker 1: post COVID then it was like completely different. So by
Speaker 1: the time I went to JFL It was a great,
Speaker 1: huge honor, got me a lot of people in the
Speaker 1: industry that I met and stuff like that. But it
Speaker 1: used to be a lot more of a thing where
Speaker 1: if it's like if you went to JFL you are
Speaker 1: now it's the big time. It's definitely a great thing
Speaker 1: to have and it's good. But in terms of did
Speaker 1: it change everything, no, oh, and I don't know that.
Speaker 1: With a few exceptions, I don't know if there's really
Speaker 1: much that does kind of change everything now, which I
Speaker 1: think is bad and good in some ways. The ways
Speaker 1: in which it's good is I now feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: I did a Comedy Central set. I grew up on
Speaker 1: Comedy Central stand up. I finally got to tape a
Speaker 1: ten minute Comedy Central set. It's on YouTube. People can
Speaker 1: see it. That was something where another one of back
Speaker 1: in the day that would have really felt like I
Speaker 1: did it. It's changed, I've made it whatever. It's just
Speaker 1: like climbing. You just kind of keep climbing and reaching
Speaker 1: for the next thing until you look back down and
Speaker 1: they how look look how far? Yeah, and you're super tired.
Speaker 1: You think, look how far of climbs? And wow, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be scary if I fell off here and then
Speaker 1: you got a whole other thing stressed out about. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't no, I don't feel you know, I don't
Speaker 1: personally feel like I am a famous comedian in any way.
Speaker 1: That's said. I have done some things that I'm proud
Speaker 1: of and continue to do that, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of I think, interesting, fun things that I'm working on
Speaker 1: right now that are gonna come out in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. I'm just getting started.
Speaker 2: But oh you are just by the way. I'm just
Speaker 2: here to tell you that you're just getting started. Especially
Speaker 2: if you just turn thirty. Oh my god, it's like
Speaker 2: the beginning for me.
Speaker 1: I know, it's the oldest I've ever been.
Speaker 2: Really, that's all you've ever been is thirty.
Speaker 1: I know I want to take sixty two out for
Speaker 1: a spin someday, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: Oh you will, but you know when your mentality what
Speaker 2: you're describing as was my next question, which I guess
Speaker 2: is probably the same answer about Vulture saying you know,
Speaker 2: the one to watch. You know, these things would usually
Speaker 2: indicate that someone has arrived and you're saying, yeah, well
Speaker 2: it's great to have, but it's sort of part of
Speaker 2: the process. And I'm just going to keep moving forward regardless.
Speaker 2: And it's not about fame really, it's more about working.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's all about building sort of a sustainable
Speaker 1: career and being able to pay your bills at the
Speaker 1: end of the day. Say to myself all the time,
Speaker 1: I love the opportunities that I'm getting, that I get
Speaker 1: and I'm getting and I'm grateful for them. But also
Speaker 1: everything is just another thing. Everything time moves on. You
Speaker 1: have to keep doing more stuff. This whole idea of
Speaker 1: arriving or making it, there are so many people who
Speaker 1: have arrived and then they unarrived. You arrived for a second.
Speaker 1: Then your kind of career kind of goes up and
Speaker 1: down and you can be on and then you can
Speaker 1: be off, and then you can be back on and
Speaker 1: it can just be Hopefully you get to a place
Speaker 1: eventually where you're like, I've reached a happiness and a
Speaker 1: satisfaction with everything that's happened, and keep trying for better.
Speaker 1: But it's you know, it's it's tough because it's it's like, well,
Speaker 1: the and also the idea of even fame now is abstract.
Speaker 1: It's it's you can be really famous to some people.
Speaker 1: You can be not. I mean, con o'bryan's one of
Speaker 1: the most famous people in the world. And there were
Speaker 1: some people that when I first started writing for him
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty that I told about like Conan, and
Speaker 1: a couple of people were like, oh, yeah, which one's
Speaker 1: Conan again? Who is that?
Speaker 2: Oh that happened to you before you turn thirty, because
Speaker 2: that's usually a milestone thing when you turn thirty and
Speaker 2: you like, you just talking with someone and you run
Speaker 2: a line from a movie and they're like, what was
Speaker 2: that from? And that's when you're like, oh shit, right,
Speaker 2: But that obviously happened to you five years ago, Skyler,
Speaker 2: So you're experiencing things a little bit earlier.
Speaker 1: But it makes sense, right, But the feature is different
Speaker 1: now because people are and people are so into and
Speaker 1: it wasn't that many people like some people, yes, but
Speaker 1: some people are also like, oh yeah, I don't really
Speaker 1: you know, even then, and those where even people who
Speaker 1: are slightly younger than me, I think, and not in
Speaker 1: comedy or even the comedy fans really, so that's also
Speaker 1: a different thing. But yeah, it's that's just what happens,
Speaker 1: you know. You could say I could say right now,
Speaker 1: I could say like, oh, yeah, I show speed is
Speaker 1: a person who is very very very famous right now,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure tons of listeners would be like, who
Speaker 1: is that? Who is that guy? He just said? And
Speaker 1: it's just like an internet streamer guy who's like crazy famous.
Speaker 1: But if you're over the age of I want to say,
Speaker 1: every nobody over the age of thirty five has heard
Speaker 1: of this guy before, and for good reason. There's an
Speaker 1: internet guy and it's kind of clear what he actually does.
Speaker 1: He like plays video games, but then also just kind
Speaker 1: of runs around, you know, like that's all. That's what
Speaker 1: fame is now, So it's not like an inherent actual value.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to be sort of famous for famous's sake,
Speaker 1: the way that started happening in the two thousands times,
Speaker 1: after reality TV shows and all of that. You know.
Speaker 2: So, what I think you're kind of saying, if I
Speaker 2: could summarize, is don't rest on your laurels, meaning don't
Speaker 2: just assume you know you've got it all, but also
Speaker 2: relax in the saddle of life.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also like enjoy it, enjoy it, really have
Speaker 1: to enjoy. That's the biggest thing you know this podcast
Speaker 1: is it's comedy saved me. And the weird thing that
Speaker 1: can happen. And I've been in these situations sometimes is
Speaker 1: you know, I am trying to make comedy. I am
Speaker 1: a comedian and I'm so frustrated and upset and this
Speaker 1: sucks and I hate what's going on and it's crazy
Speaker 1: because you're like, but wait, this is supposed to be comedy,
Speaker 1: so shouldn't even that be Why am I? Why am
Speaker 1: I mad? Why am I angry? Why am I feeling
Speaker 1: so competitive about comedy that I'm upset at everything around me?
Speaker 1: And why am I?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: Why is my mindset like this? If it is supposed
Speaker 1: to be making people laugh and making people happy like that,
Speaker 1: that's dumb. That's dumb. Who Why would it suck to
Speaker 1: be the person that's trying to make people laugh that?
Speaker 1: And you can very easily in the entertainment industry, especially
Speaker 1: get into that zone because it's so competitive, there's so
Speaker 1: much hierarchy. There's people that you started with that are
Speaker 1: getting way more famous than you. There are people that
Speaker 1: started after you you that are getting way more famous
Speaker 1: than you, And you go, where is my mom? I'm
Speaker 1: not gettingthing stuff was uh, and then you get upset
Speaker 1: and then it's like you're supposed to be enjoying this,
Speaker 1: And that is always something that I try to really remember.
Speaker 1: I've been on a huge, huge because I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of really not good stuff happening in comedy
Speaker 1: right now in terms of what people are allowing to happen,
Speaker 1: and that is very easy to be very cynical about.
Speaker 1: Reason my example, I think the easiest example that I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people will have heard of is
Speaker 1: like Tony Hingecliff and the killed Tony stuff I find
Speaker 1: to be very negative and very not good, and I
Speaker 1: think very exploitive, and you know, he's he goes he
Speaker 1: was at the big Trump rally, heat heap. A lot
Speaker 1: of this stuff I find very problematic and really negative.
Speaker 1: Not to harp on that, but because that's such a
Speaker 1: big part of what it's it's grown and grown and
Speaker 1: I would say metastasized as a part of the comedy industry,
Speaker 1: that you can sit there and kind of be mad
Speaker 1: about that all day, with which sh I am in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. But I also try to shift
Speaker 1: my focus to what am I going to be positive
Speaker 1: about and what do. I like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: just do what the system is telling me to do.
Speaker 1: I would like to be positive in and enjoy the
Speaker 1: things and see comedy that I like and see my
Speaker 1: friends and go, wow, that's really really amazing. That's because
Speaker 1: it's hard to do comedy that's good. So like, of
Speaker 1: course there's going to be a lot of bad stuff
Speaker 1: because like the good stuff is hard to make, and
Speaker 1: if there's so many people in this, there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of bad and it's not the best of it.
Speaker 1: Let's like, I'm trying to focus on the good more,
Speaker 1: not to say I don't want to criticize the stuff
Speaker 1: that I think is the bad, because I do, But
Speaker 1: I just think that also kind of living in a
Speaker 1: space where it's like, but there is so much amazing
Speaker 1: comedy right now that so many people can be affirmed from,
Speaker 1: and that is interesting and new and different, that that
Speaker 1: is is a nice place for me to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, necessity breeds invention, So never fear because where there's
Speaker 2: a whole, it'll be filled with something good. And also,
Speaker 2: what you just said was really poignant. If you focus
Speaker 2: on the things that you don't want, that's what you're
Speaker 2: going to get Yeah, so why focus on that I.
Speaker 1: Heard very early on. I don't even remember this is
Speaker 1: I think this was in terms of a creative thing.
Speaker 1: But it's like, you can't define something entirely by what
Speaker 1: it's what it's not. You know, I can't. I can't
Speaker 1: tell you who I am and just tell you, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not that. That's
Speaker 1: not that gives you no sense of who I am.
Speaker 1: But but you have to define it by like what
Speaker 1: it is, by the positive, by what's there. You can't
Speaker 1: entirely define something correctly by the negative or what if
Speaker 1: it's an antithesis too, So that is that's also, you know,
Speaker 1: I think very important to me in terms of both
Speaker 1: personally and the way I want to live my life,
Speaker 1: but also just like creatively, where it's like no, it's
Speaker 1: instead of being like it's not like it's not like
Speaker 1: it's like okay, But what is it? How do you
Speaker 1: feel it all? What? What is? What is good? What?
Speaker 1: What are you trying to do? Not like what do
Speaker 1: you hate that other people are doing.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back with more of the Comedy Saved
Speaker 4: Me podcast. Welcome back to the Comedy Saved Me podcast.
Speaker 2: What's something that surprised you about the comedy industry once
Speaker 2: you got inside of it? Just one random thing that
Speaker 2: was surprising.
Speaker 1: Thing surprised, Oh interesting.
Speaker 2: If I like it? When I make you think you
Speaker 2: really like that?
Speaker 1: The thing that surprised me about the comedy industry. This
Speaker 1: is gonna sound I know, I just talked so much.
Speaker 1: I just pre positivity so much. But but the thing
Speaker 1: that but the thing that really did surprise me is
Speaker 1: like how incompetent so many people are. Who are the
Speaker 1: people who aren't in charge of, yeah, running the show
Speaker 1: because they many many of them have no sense of comedy.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because they have all in the control
Speaker 1: and so you're kind of like, oh huh. And then
Speaker 1: the other thing that it's not super surprising, but in
Speaker 1: terms of you know, who makes it, who's popular, who whatever?
Speaker 1: Is that it's just really it is nothing in this
Speaker 1: country has ever been truly merit based because of believerory.
Speaker 1: But the comedy world of like this person's whatever, and
Speaker 1: this person's over here, it's not merit based, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean anybody's inherently better than anybody else in terms
Speaker 1: of talent. It's just that they got lucky in this
Speaker 1: way and this thing happened, and then they kind of
Speaker 1: took this path and that and then so they're there,
Speaker 1: and everybody's kind of where they are, but they are
Speaker 1: just there are incredibly talented people at every level, and
Speaker 1: there are incredibly untalented people at every level and that,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's the There is a I guess
Speaker 1: correlation in my mind, and I think a pretty positive
Speaker 1: correlation of talent to success, but it's very loosely correlated.
Speaker 2: Now I understand exactly what you're laying down.
Speaker 1: So if you used to think, I guess, I used
Speaker 1: to think, you know, if you put in this amount
Speaker 1: of work and get this amount good, then you don't
Speaker 1: get this amount successful. And that's just not true. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of factors. Some of them are about you,
Speaker 1: most of them are not, you know. Some of them
Speaker 1: is who you are, most of it is has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with you, and you're just you know, it's
Speaker 1: an industry, which means you are a laborer in the industry.
Speaker 1: And when you think of yourself in terms of labor
Speaker 1: in a marketplace, more than this, I'm the philosopher, poet,
Speaker 1: you know, extraordinary kind of guy. I have such a Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're an artist, but it's like there's also the industry, uh,
Speaker 1: and the mechanisms of capitalism in the industry in a
Speaker 1: larger scale sense. Don't really they're not really interested in
Speaker 1: the art itself or the equality of it. It's only
Speaker 1: in so far as like what can make money at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, and they feel can make money.
Speaker 1: And if somebody feels your movie idea could make a
Speaker 1: lot of money, whether good or bad, they're like, let's
Speaker 1: do let's do that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're apples and oranges. That's what my husband always
Speaker 2: tells me. We're just apples and.
Speaker 1: As and or And you can be really you can
Speaker 1: get really negative about that because that can sound awful.
Speaker 1: But I think it just sort of releases a lot
Speaker 1: of the personal making it about you, making it upset
Speaker 1: about you when you didn't get something, or you know,
Speaker 1: oh I must not be good enough, or it must
Speaker 1: be about It's like, it's not about you, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's truly not It's about so many other factors
Speaker 1: and just and it goes back to what I was
Speaker 1: saying before, Just do your best and enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, such. I mean, it seems so simple to say that,
Speaker 2: but it really is the truth because when you start
Speaker 2: peeling back the onion, it ain't pretty in the center
Speaker 2: there you think it's just like the golden egg is
Speaker 2: in there, and you get there and you're like, wow,
Speaker 2: this is what it is? Like why did I worry
Speaker 2: so much? Why did I put so much pressure on
Speaker 2: myself to be? And also, success isn't just finance it' right,
Speaker 2: you know a life.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, there's a lot of things to it. Well,
Speaker 1: even in terms of you know, let's talk let's say
Speaker 1: getting a show made or something like that. You could
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I guess you know, I was never
Speaker 1: a good enough writer to get my show made or whatever.
Speaker 1: But then like, let's think about it even more. There's
Speaker 1: like whatever the concept is, if it works for any
Speaker 1: of these places that is going to be these production companies,
Speaker 1: and whether it works for them in a way that
Speaker 1: they think that they can develop it into something that
Speaker 1: they could sell to some of the networks, and whether
Speaker 1: the networks want to buy it, and like what the
Speaker 1: networks are, like, what their mandates are based on whatever
Speaker 1: they think people are gonna like. And then on a
Speaker 1: larger level. Now you have all these network consolidations where
Speaker 1: Paramount is consolidating. No, and then they're cutting their executive
Speaker 1: steps and they're blah blah blah. And then once you
Speaker 1: once you start looking at it like that, Oh, it
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with the idea. Oh how
Speaker 1: good it was, whether or not it was, it had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. Is all of this because
Speaker 1: the Trump and all that. It just that it has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2: It's so true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, preach No, that's all. That's all. That's all I
Speaker 1: had to say. I just I just want people to
Speaker 1: not feel like they're If they feel like they're quote
Speaker 1: unquote failing, that, they're not failures. It's not their fault.
Speaker 1: It's not a personal quality of them. It's got everything
Speaker 1: to do with the material conditions and the sort of
Speaker 1: economic structure of what's going on. Like I've auditioned for SNL,
Speaker 1: I clearly didn't get it. I had a good audition,
Speaker 1: but I did not get onto SNL. In the years since,
Speaker 1: I've done some things that I I've felt were really
Speaker 1: cool and I really liked, and I like if I
Speaker 1: had gone on SNL when I auditioned for it, then
Speaker 1: I never would have been able to write for the Oscars,
Speaker 1: for example, and that has been very cool, interesting experience,
Speaker 1: even in terms of getting to hang out with Conan
Speaker 1: O'Brien from the amount of time that I've had, which
Speaker 1: never would have happened if I had been on SNL
Speaker 1: like it just true, wouldn't have. Everything that's meant for
Speaker 1: you is meant for you. Yeah, don't even worry about it. Literally,
Speaker 1: try your best, do your thing, do what you're interested in,
Speaker 1: do what you think you'd be good at, and whatever
Speaker 1: happens happens.
Speaker 2: Listen to Skyler.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 2: Why can't we just listen to Skylar Skyler help me
Speaker 2: be Black? Tell us about the podcast? What made you
Speaker 2: want to be or our brother? Build a podcast?
Speaker 1: Why did you want to?
Speaker 2: Can we start at the beginning? No, what made you
Speaker 2: want to build a whole podcast around this part of
Speaker 2: your story? Really?
Speaker 1: I wanted to just because there is always been this
Speaker 1: difference in what I experienced versus what black people in
Speaker 1: black households, they grew up in black households and in
Speaker 1: black communities know and have experienced. Culturally. It's always been
Speaker 1: interesting with me because it's not like my life has
Speaker 1: been without the struggles of being a black man in America. Obviously,
Speaker 1: like that just happens regardless, but to have not connected
Speaker 1: to have not been growing up connected to any of
Speaker 1: the culture is a funny thing because the exchange was
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, you get this oppression, but like,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be good at music, for example, you're gonna
Speaker 1: grow up in a church. It's gonna teach you how
Speaker 1: to sing really well, or you get to go to
Speaker 1: black church because but I didn't get to have that.
Speaker 1: So it's just always been something that has taken a
Speaker 1: lot of unpacking, you know, for a good amount of
Speaker 1: time when I was young, I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: didn't feel like I'm really black. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I really get to, you know whatever. It just is
Speaker 1: something that was a huge point of strife in my
Speaker 1: personal life and feeling an inferiority complex based on that,
Speaker 1: and I thought, you know, I've grown out of that now,
Speaker 1: but I still did feel like my experience is not
Speaker 1: ever going to have had change like that. It's just
Speaker 1: where I'm from, and there's nothing that I can do
Speaker 1: about that, even if I have to sometimes feel like
Speaker 1: I'm explaining myself to people. There's nothing that I can
Speaker 1: do about it. So I just thought, you know what,
Speaker 1: let's just I just want to talk about these things
Speaker 1: because they are very interesting to me because as black
Speaker 1: people are, culture and our experiences and our history is
Speaker 1: so so important to our identities, and when you have
Speaker 1: a different experience of that, it can be a little weird.
Speaker 1: I remember a couple of times sometimes people will just
Speaker 1: react to something I put online or something, and I
Speaker 1: got one comment where a guy was like this, this guy,
Speaker 1: why is this guy talking like this? He's talking white
Speaker 1: or whatever, or it seems like he's, hey know, white people.
Speaker 1: This guy's got like a white voice. And I go,
Speaker 1: but he was kind of he was being very critical,
Speaker 1: and I replied to him and I was like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I was adopted and raised by white people.
Speaker 1: Wasn't my choice. There's nothing I could do about that.
Speaker 1: And then that guy replied and he's like, oh man,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's real different. And I didn't know you
Speaker 1: like did a complete money. I thought it was so
Speaker 1: funny because it was like, okay, so a lot of time,
Speaker 1: for good reasons, black people will approach people who are
Speaker 1: not behaving as traditionally black as like specifically trying to
Speaker 1: sell out or being a certain way in order to
Speaker 1: appeal to the white gays or whatever. But and I
Speaker 1: think maybe from a distance, you can maybe approach myself
Speaker 1: like that. But then once you just kind of hear
Speaker 1: the situation and then I had no control over it,
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, actually I actually do have empathy.
Speaker 1: I thought you were just like trying to just not
Speaker 1: be around black people, but I now see that you
Speaker 1: just weren't given the opportunity to and that's a different scenario.
Speaker 2: Well, it's nice that you make people stop for a
Speaker 2: minute and put themselves in someone else's shoes, because a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't know how to do that, and
Speaker 2: it's like you should always seek first to understand before
Speaker 2: being understood, but no one ever does that. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: you gotta understand me first. I don't care what happened
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 1: People don't want to do that, and it's it's easier
Speaker 1: not to, but it's it's yes, it is funny when
Speaker 1: people just really they just want to kind of point
Speaker 1: fingers and go this is and I don't like. I
Speaker 1: don't like how it's different. And it's it's that same
Speaker 1: thing that goes back to me when I was in
Speaker 1: pre school of just being like, that's different. I don't
Speaker 1: get it. I don't like it. Yeah, and now that's
Speaker 1: something I am way more whipped to handle. But it's like,
Speaker 1: this is who I am. What am I gonna do?
Speaker 1: What I gonna do, This is who I am. It's fine,
Speaker 1: and it's fine. I like it, But like if you're
Speaker 1: mad at that, there's nothing I can do about it.
Speaker 1: Whatever people might say, I'm very pro black. I'm very
Speaker 1: when I think of the black identity politically and stuff
Speaker 1: I know about our history. I'm trying to know as
Speaker 1: much as I can about our culture that I didn't
Speaker 1: grow up with, which takes a lot of time because
Speaker 1: there's not like really one book. Oh yeah, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: not one book that this is oh and it's like
Speaker 1: and then also like we in America are not a monolith.
Speaker 1: Then you also have the black diaspora across the world,
Speaker 1: and everybody in the diaspora feels differently about each other,
Speaker 1: and everybody has a lot of opinions about all of
Speaker 1: this stuff. And also then it's very insular because there's
Speaker 1: this idea of you can be blacker or less black,
Speaker 1: or there's this like version of essentialism and that's kind
Speaker 1: of weird, and let's impact that and what is it?
Speaker 1: It's so abstract. One of the best avenues to figure
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff out is podcast and you could
Speaker 1: have a lot of different conversations about it. So that's
Speaker 1: why I have a comedian, a black comedian that's a guest,
Speaker 1: and they bring in a topic that they want to
Speaker 1: talk about, and then we just talk about it and
Speaker 1: sometimes I do a little research. Most of the time
Speaker 1: I don't. Sometimes they have a take on it or
Speaker 1: thoughts on it, and they want to educate me in
Speaker 1: one way or another, and then we just talk and
Speaker 1: we sit down and we riff and it's like very
Speaker 1: lucy goosey casual and we usually end up learning a
Speaker 1: thing or two or having some enlighten revelation and some
Speaker 1: silly jokes the whole time. So it's fun.
Speaker 2: That's the most important thing is coming away learning something,
Speaker 2: and the laughter, of course is a bonus of what.
Speaker 2: What's like one piece of advice that you that was
Speaker 2: you know, sparked from the podcast, or the best piece
Speaker 2: of advice either with a guest or with the audience
Speaker 2: or conversation, something that stands out to you.
Speaker 1: Something I learned recently that I didn't know is that
Speaker 1: at Judentine celebrations there is at least in Houston, where
Speaker 1: my guest Lacey grew up, there would be red kool
Speaker 1: aid at the Juneine celebrations. And you know, the kool
Speaker 1: aid and black people is already whatever stereotype, but also
Speaker 1: the reason why it's read it's sort of representative of
Speaker 1: like the blood of the ancestors and is like kind
Speaker 1: of honoring people who came before and and died and
Speaker 1: were you know, had terrible horrible experiences with slavery and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and this that it's that and that tradition,
Speaker 1: the red juice like tradition actually goes back up very
Speaker 1: long time to Africa putting like certain red things and
Speaker 1: dyes and stuff into the drinks to be honoring like
Speaker 1: people in the past. I had no idea. I had
Speaker 1: no idea, and I was like, wow, I had that's
Speaker 1: and I think, I know, you know, at this point,
Speaker 1: I know a good amount just from the friends that
Speaker 1: I've had. I'm finding things out all the time where
Speaker 1: it's like I didn't know, I didn't know that, I
Speaker 1: had no idea about that, So you know, that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff just comes up because it just does. I
Speaker 1: just have no idea about certain things unless you're like,
Speaker 1: really there And yeah, it was interesting to me.
Speaker 2: What is doing a podcast helped me be black? Taught
Speaker 2: you something about yourself that stand up probably couldn't have alone.
Speaker 1: Hmmm. I do think that it has taught me that
Speaker 1: I am much more interested in being silly than I
Speaker 1: am and in trying to get deep sometimes. And it's
Speaker 1: hard when you're the host of a show because you
Speaker 1: want to maybe crack a joke when you should be
Speaker 1: asking a question. And I've gotten better about balancing it.
Speaker 1: I also have noticed that I feel sometimes like I
Speaker 1: am smarter on paper or in my thoughts than I
Speaker 1: am able to articulate in a moment. And sometimes I
Speaker 1: will be listening back to the podcast being like, oh,
Speaker 1: it sounds so stupid. This is not a smart guy.
Speaker 1: But I like, I feel like I am actually smart.
Speaker 1: But then I go on podcasts and try to talk
Speaker 1: about stuff and I'm like, oh, I don't know what
Speaker 1: this guy's saying. Wait, maybe you.
Speaker 2: Listen back to your podcast.
Speaker 1: No, not often, just sometimes for clips and stuff, and
Speaker 1: I go that could have been said better, but I whatever, Well, what.
Speaker 2: You missed was radio the original medium. It was a
Speaker 2: one and done. It didn't live on forever and infamy online.
Speaker 2: Therefore you never really had to worry about what you said.
Speaker 2: And then when the people would call and say they
Speaker 2: said something, and we had this thing called the Skimmer tape,
Speaker 2: was that happened to be broken. Every time someone wanted
Speaker 2: to hear what I said that they didn't like, Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that thing, it's really old. It just broke.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, listening back, you hear something, someone said something
Speaker 2: funny and you were thinking of your next question. You
Speaker 2: didn't laugh, but you laughing because you're hearing back the podcast,
Speaker 2: and you're like, why didn't I laugh at that? I
Speaker 2: sound like an idiot.
Speaker 1: The thing of everything being super available too is that
Speaker 1: then you have to let go of a lot of
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff as well, where you go, Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody can be super critical of it now every moment,
Speaker 1: like I've had a couple of clips go out where
Speaker 1: something slightly fat actually incorrect was said in the setup
Speaker 1: to something and then it is, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: becomes a whole bit or whatever. And the people that
Speaker 1: and people online have gotten just so insane, has just
Speaker 1: taken the whole clip and just gotten so so upset
Speaker 1: about the technical factual inaccuracy of whatever. I'm like, this
Speaker 1: was such a small moment. And it's funny because let's
Speaker 1: say you're recorded the podcast you know, however many weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and that goes out and then there's that clip that
Speaker 1: happened for a couple of seconds in your brain and life,
Speaker 1: and you kind of whatever, and then people are seeing
Speaker 1: it and then they're getting really really mad and they're
Speaker 1: like commenting for days and days, and you go, that's
Speaker 1: just like kind of something I said for like a second,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying anything crazy offensive and I'm not
Speaker 1: like spreading this information. Also, back to the internet thing
Speaker 1: is people getting so angry and overly and about things
Speaker 1: because they're the consumer. This is the content. I have
Speaker 1: no emotional connection to who these people are. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it is like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: just a person talking, Like what, are you completely one
Speaker 1: percent correct about everything you say all the time? I
Speaker 1: don't think you are. So when you are kind of
Speaker 1: condemning who I am as an entire person based on
Speaker 1: something that was said, for to say and like a
Speaker 1: very small thing. It's not great, and I don't love that,
Speaker 1: and it's you sort of build up a bigger muscle
Speaker 1: for those things too, where you go, okay. So I
Speaker 1: guess I'm just getting better about not caring when it
Speaker 1: feels like everyone's mad at me, when I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: it's not really that good of a reason for everyone
Speaker 1: to be mad at me, so just we'll just move on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, back in my day we used to call
Speaker 2: that bad press. But you know what, there isn't any
Speaker 2: bad press. So if they're talking about you, yeah, you've
Speaker 2: done something right.
Speaker 1: Exactly, even if they're saying it was wrong. Right. But
Speaker 1: it's also just an Instagram, Like it was just a
Speaker 1: couple of different clips that was just like in the comments,
Speaker 1: everybody's like, oh it was. It was funny because it
Speaker 1: was something that was small. Where we were talking about
Speaker 1: the most recent one. We were talking about MLK and
Speaker 1: Malcolm X and people of the day, and we were
Speaker 1: just talking about how black haircut situations have changed, and
Speaker 1: I kind of just basically said, well, like, yeah, like
Speaker 1: MLK wasn't lined up, you know, which he wasn't. He
Speaker 1: didn't have like a fresh cut fade in the way
Speaker 1: that we do now, and people got really mad. They
Speaker 1: were like, no, he had a haircut, but and you
Speaker 1: then you guys, and then you started coming in our
Speaker 1: haircuts and like, you guys not lined up, you're not fresh.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what do you think this is me
Speaker 1: criticizing MLK, Like I'm just I was just saying haircuts
Speaker 1: are different. This is different than it was. And then
Speaker 1: so because that is, maybe that shouldn't in our brains
Speaker 1: become so fundamental And the reason why you're getting upset
Speaker 1: is the same point that I'm making that it's like
Speaker 1: this the situation is not like fundamental to who you
Speaker 1: are necessarily and how black you are and what you
Speaker 1: know all of this stuff. It was just funny that
Speaker 1: that was sort of the point that I was making
Speaker 1: and people took it such the wrong way because and
Speaker 1: it's like, but well, you're kind of proving my point
Speaker 1: because you're like, you just assume because I'm saying that
Speaker 1: he wasn't lined up, that that I'm saying what that
Speaker 1: he what? What are you talking about? Anyway? What I
Speaker 1: do like about the podcast is I don't have to
Speaker 1: go around being like I know, I know everything. If
Speaker 1: I don't know something, it's fine, and other people tell
Speaker 1: me that I don't know it, and I go, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: well I'm learning.
Speaker 2: Well that's a wonderful quality about you, Skyler. Is that
Speaker 2: that you want to have these discussions and you want
Speaker 2: to talk and you're not just a keyboard cowboy cowboy
Speaker 2: keyboard cowboy. Yeah No, I mean you. You want to
Speaker 2: talk to people who have different opinions and different thoughts,
Speaker 2: and that's the most important thing to be able to
Speaker 2: grow and learn and understand who you are really m
Speaker 2: M and who everyone else is, which is probably impossible
Speaker 2: to figure out at this point. But so I just
Speaker 2: asked you a little fluffy question, and now I'm going
Speaker 2: to go in for the big one.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: This show is built around the idea that comedy can
Speaker 2: be a lifeline and it can be very healing. Was
Speaker 2: there a specific moment in your life where comedy genuinely
Speaker 2: saved you or healed you or brought you back from
Speaker 2: the brink?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a couple of moments like that.
Speaker 1: I do think that me if I were to give
Speaker 1: you the biggest easy answer but also a very true answer,
Speaker 1: is that, like, how many save me from like going
Speaker 1: on a Mormon mission and like being a Mormon and
Speaker 1: saved me from the Mormon Church, which I would personally
Speaker 1: consider a cult and got me. I me getting interested
Speaker 1: in comedy was to me listening to comedians talk about stuff.
Speaker 1: There was big podcast, you know, and shout out to
Speaker 1: Pete Holmes and his podcast because it was all about
Speaker 1: religion and sort of deconstructing that kind of stuff. And yes,
Speaker 1: my interest in comedy was sort of the avenue of
Speaker 1: exploring the world and thoughts out of Mormonism. And you know,
Speaker 1: you're kind of encouraged when you're Mormon to kind of
Speaker 1: be only focusing on Mormon stuff. They don't really want
Speaker 1: you reading a lot of other religious texts or thinking
Speaker 1: of finding out a lot about too many thoughts about what,
Speaker 1: you know, other people are trying to say about Mormonism,
Speaker 1: and they go, well, a lot of that is specifically
Speaker 1: anti Mormon kind of stuff, and it's they've designed it
Speaker 1: to make you doubt and it's kind of it's kind
Speaker 1: of gafflight y, and so it's and they yeah, it is,
Speaker 1: but they are also kind of tricky about the way
Speaker 1: they're saying it. To say, no, I'm saying that you shouldn't.
Speaker 1: But it's like they're also not actively encouraging it, at
Speaker 1: least when I was growing up. And I don't imagine
Speaker 1: it's change that much. But getting into comedy and all
Speaker 1: that stuff, people were They're talking about all kinds of
Speaker 1: things and saying all kinds of things about how the
Speaker 1: world works. And it was just the same things that
Speaker 1: were getting me into comedy were getting me out of
Speaker 1: being a super religious Mormon person. And if I had
Speaker 1: not found comedy, I probably would still have sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, gone on a Mormon mission, gotten married at
Speaker 1: twenty two and all have done all this stuff. And
Speaker 1: I'm glad that's not all my life looks like wow?
Speaker 2: And what do you want people to feel when they
Speaker 2: leave one of your sets or finish an episode of
Speaker 2: your podcast?
Speaker 1: Uh, just that that guy's funny. My main things. My
Speaker 1: main things is, oh, that guy's funny. He should probably
Speaker 1: be more famous right now. Those are my kind of
Speaker 1: two where people go, Guys, that was really good and
Speaker 1: I like that. And other than that, that's all I'm not.
Speaker 1: If you have some revelatory moment in some way, sure,
Speaker 1: if you go wow, I never thought about that before.
Speaker 1: If you go whoa that made me change my life. Whatever,
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm going for. I'm trying to do
Speaker 1: a very good, interesting form of the art form and
Speaker 1: think that it's art. I just want people at the
Speaker 1: end of the day again into my stand up sets
Speaker 1: and walking out going that was really funny, that was
Speaker 1: really good. We gotta look that guy up or whatever,
Speaker 1: and at the end of the podcast, I would like, oh,
Speaker 1: that was very funny, and then also, oh, that was informative.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, So the podcast maybe going for
Speaker 1: a little bit more of informative then funny or just
Speaker 1: like interesting, but just yeah. I would like people to
Speaker 1: think for my stand up and if someone were to
Speaker 1: ask them, hey, was what you just saw, would you
Speaker 1: consider it art, and for them to just quickly say yes,
Speaker 1: because I think there is some stand up or versions
Speaker 1: of comedy that you can watch where I go. I
Speaker 1: don't feel that this is art, not that I'm approaching
Speaker 1: it in a pretentious way, but at least in an
Speaker 1: interesting enough way where people go okay, or and a
Speaker 1: lot of people if they're not comics. I do want
Speaker 1: people to feel like, oh, I I couldn't have done
Speaker 1: what he just did. I wouldn't know how to do that,
Speaker 1: that is, but that's all.
Speaker 2: That's huge though. I mean, I live vicariously through so
Speaker 2: many people and they have no idea. I love hanging
Speaker 2: out with them because like, I could never do that,
Speaker 2: I could never say that, and I love that you do.
Speaker 2: Two more questions, shorties, but goodies. Number one, how important
Speaker 2: is it to laugh at yourself? And number two? What
Speaker 2: is next for Skyler Higley? What is on deck? What
Speaker 2: can fans be looking for?
Speaker 1: How important is it to laugh at yourself? Very I
Speaker 1: laugh at myself all the time. I say jokes to
Speaker 1: myself that I think are stupid. I think of things
Speaker 1: all the time that I think it's very important to
Speaker 1: laugh at yourself. This whole idea of uh, you know
Speaker 1: not the comedians not laughing at themselves is I think,
Speaker 1: very stupid.
Speaker 2: How can you be a comedian if you can't laugh
Speaker 2: at you? Like, I don't know how that's possible.
Speaker 1: There's kind of this thing of like, oh, well, you're
Speaker 1: not supposed to like openly say you're funny or whatever.
Speaker 1: That's not No. I'm funny and I like it, and
Speaker 1: I funny and i I'm but it's also what sorry
Speaker 1: for enjoying myself. This is actually my only skill. I
Speaker 1: actually don't know how to do anything else really, So
Speaker 1: if I'm appreciating how I do this, then I think
Speaker 1: that's fine, because I know I'm not good at basically
Speaker 1: anything else. I love and that's cool. And as far
Speaker 1: as what's next, I have a couple projects that are
Speaker 1: going to be coming out that I'm working on. Working
Speaker 1: on a little thing with the Tim Heideker, an Info
Speaker 1: Wars thing because the Onion has bought Info Wars, so
Speaker 1: we're we're going in that direction with this new comedy platform.
Speaker 1: So I'm working on that. And there's another show that's
Speaker 1: coming out on YouTube that I am going to be
Speaker 1: a head writer for, so check those out when you
Speaker 1: when those come out. What's going to I think I
Speaker 1: can say about the I don't know if I can
Speaker 1: even say right now and then, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if I can say this either, but I am going
Speaker 1: to have a new stand up set coming out online
Speaker 1: on a platform that people have heard of, and I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if they want that announced yet either,
Speaker 1: but that's what I'm interested in. And and well, we'll
Speaker 1: see what the rest of the year manifests into but
Speaker 1: I'm excited with what's happening right now creatively, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll see what's what's next. There's always going
Speaker 1: to be a next thing, and sometimes you don't know
Speaker 1: what it.
Speaker 2: Is, no, but it keeps you smiling and keeps you
Speaker 2: motivated to keep moving forward. Skyler Hickley, it was so
Speaker 2: great to have you and all of your wisdom. Er,
Speaker 2: thank you for sharing, Thank you story. And Skyler's podcast
Speaker 2: is let Me Be, Let Me be, help me be Black,
Speaker 2: Let me be Black, Help me Be Black. And it's
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, everybody can get it.
Speaker 2: You can get it, get them, get you some okay
Speaker 2: of Skyler Hickley. Now, damn it. Thank you so much,
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and good luck with everything coming up.
Speaker 2: And please I make you, I bet, And thanks for
Speaker 2: taking the time today. And also conan quick story. He
Speaker 2: used to live in a town that I'm in right
Speaker 2: now in Connecticut, and I didn't know and I moved
Speaker 2: here eighteen years ago. My cat died and my husband
Speaker 2: and I were extremely emotional and were like, so we
Speaker 2: bury her in the backyard, which I guess you're not
Speaker 2: supposed to do, but we did. And then we went
Speaker 2: to a diner and we sat down. I looked a mess.
Speaker 2: I couldn't have been worse he was. We're like crying
Speaker 2: and in walks Conan O'Brien and his kids and they
Speaker 2: sit in the booth right behind us. And I got
Speaker 2: to tell you, listening to him handle the kids and
Speaker 2: they were really young. This was like eighteen years ago.
Speaker 2: The way he used comedy to manage them was so
Speaker 2: amazing that it had me laughing, of course because we
Speaker 2: had to listen what was going on the booth behind us.
Speaker 2: But it just got me out of my doldrums. And
Speaker 2: he's really one of the best of the best. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I know you don't get into this, but if you
Speaker 2: see him, just to you know, give him a hug
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will. Well, if he allows me to hug,
Speaker 1: that might be weird, but okay that I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: It could be weird anyway. Thank you and thanks for
Speaker 2: that laugh.
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5: I'm buzz night, and thanks for listening to Comedy Save
Speaker 5: Me with Lynn Hoffman, and do check out our other podcast,
Speaker 5: Lynn Hoffman's Music Save Me podcast also Sarah Harrelson and
Speaker 5: Taking a Walk Nashville and Don't Forget also about taking
Speaker 5: a Walk, hosted by Yours Truly. All shows are available
Speaker 5: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and are part of the iHeart
Speaker 5: podcast network.