WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Melissa Witt [From the Archives]

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans. Helen Gon Murder Line actively investigates cold

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<v Speaker 1>case murders in an effort to raise public awareness, invite

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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<v Speaker 1>be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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<v Speaker 1>from family and community members, their statements should not be

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<v Speaker 1>considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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<v Speaker 1>inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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<v Speaker 1>presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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<v Speaker 1>that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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<v Speaker 1>is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the past five years making my true crime podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing

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<v Speaker 2>as a small town where murder never happens. I have

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<v Speaker 2>received hundreds of messages from people all around the country

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<v Speaker 2>asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them,

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<v Speaker 2>their families, and their communities, and now they have a

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<v Speaker 2>new way to reach out. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is

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<v Speaker 2>Helen Gone Murder Line. If you have a case you'd

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<v Speaker 2>like me and my team to look into, you can

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<v Speaker 2>reach out to us at six seven eight seven four four,

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<v Speaker 2>six one four or five. That's six seven eight seven

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<v Speaker 2>four four sixty one four or five. Thursday, December first,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four started out as just a normal day

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<v Speaker 2>for Melissa missy Wit. Melissa was a nineteen year old

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<v Speaker 2>college student who still lived at home with her mom,

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<v Speaker 2>mary Anne Whitt, on a quiet street in a quiet

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<v Speaker 2>neighborhood in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Melissa was Marianne's only daughter,

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<v Speaker 2>and Melissa was her whole world. In interviews later, Marianne

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<v Speaker 2>talked about how she'd been almost forty years old when

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<v Speaker 2>Melissa was born. Melissa's dad, Johnny, was fifty four at

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<v Speaker 2>the time. Today that's more common, especially in places like

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<v Speaker 2>New York City, where I've spent a lot of my

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<v Speaker 2>adult life, but back then, in small town Arkansas, it

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<v Speaker 2>was definitely not. Because they were so close. Mary Anne

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<v Speaker 2>was always very protective of Melissa. She always thought about safety.

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<v Speaker 2>Fort Smith had around seventy five thousand people living there

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<v Speaker 2>back in the early nineties with a military base. It

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<v Speaker 2>was much larger and more diverse than say a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of towns in the Ozarks, but it still had that

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<v Speaker 2>small town feel when Melissa was growing up. It was

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of place where kids rode their bikes around

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<v Speaker 2>town and entertained themselves after school. On that December morning

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety four, Melissa asked mary Anne if she

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<v Speaker 2>could borrow twenty dollars. Mary Anne was trying to teach

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<v Speaker 2>Melissa about smarter budgeting, so she said no. Melissa and

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<v Speaker 2>mary Anne actually got into a little argument over this,

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<v Speaker 2>and Melissa left the house that day without them resolving it.

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<v Speaker 2>After Melissa left, mary Anne felt bad about the argument,

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<v Speaker 2>so she left Melissa a note telling her to come

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<v Speaker 2>to Bowling World that night, where mary Anne was part

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<v Speaker 2>of a ladies bowling league. In the note, Marianne apologized

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<v Speaker 2>for getting upset with her and offered to buy her

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<v Speaker 2>a Hamburger when they saw each other that night. She

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<v Speaker 2>signed the note, love Mom. Melissa did go to meet

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<v Speaker 2>her mom that night at Bowling World, but she never

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<v Speaker 2>made it inside. Instead, Melissa disappeared, and Marianne never saw

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<v Speaker 2>her daughter alive again.

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<v Speaker 3>For days.

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<v Speaker 2>No one noticed that Melissa's brand new white nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 2>five Mitsubishi Mirage was parked in a far corner of

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<v Speaker 2>that parking lot, and no one noticed the blood.

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<v Speaker 4>Alan it's being lookout for a Melissa Whit me a

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<v Speaker 4>white female nineteen years of age five one point five

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<v Speaker 4>have hazel eyes, brownish blond hair. When I've seen Thursday

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<v Speaker 4>December First.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.

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<v Speaker 5>Hi Catherine, this is LaDonna.

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<v Speaker 6>I just wanted to talk to you about the Melissa whitcase.

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<v Speaker 2>I was introduced to the Melissa whitcase through Loadonna Humphrey,

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<v Speaker 2>a private investigator and native Northwest Arkansas. We've been talking

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<v Speaker 2>about Melissa's case for a couple of years now. LaDonna

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<v Speaker 2>has devoted years of her life to investigating the case

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<v Speaker 2>and to getting justice from Melissa's family and friends. She's

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<v Speaker 2>also written two books about Melissa called The Girl I

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<v Speaker 2>Never Knew and Strangled, and made a documentary about the

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<v Speaker 2>case called Uneven Ground The Melissa Whit Story.

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<v Speaker 7>I have been a part of.

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<v Speaker 6>A nonprofit that I had founded called Let's Bring Them Home.

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<v Speaker 6>We offered support to families who had adult cases that

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<v Speaker 6>had gone missing, and we acted as a liaison between

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<v Speaker 6>the family and law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 5>And we wanted to film a documentary.

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<v Speaker 6>Our team got together and everyone kept bringing up the

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<v Speaker 6>Melissa Whit case, and I was really actually against it

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<v Speaker 6>in the beginning because obviously she's not a long term

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<v Speaker 6>missing case.

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<v Speaker 5>They found her body.

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<v Speaker 6>Six weeks after she disappeared, but the team out voted me,

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<v Speaker 6>sent me to Fort Smith, and really kind of the

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<v Speaker 6>rest is history.

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<v Speaker 5>Once I met with law Enforce and realized how passionate.

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<v Speaker 6>They were about the case, I knew that I needed

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<v Speaker 6>to get involved, and it was initially just for the documentary,

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<v Speaker 6>and then it really morphed into me being more involved

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<v Speaker 6>in the day to day things that were happening with

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<v Speaker 6>her case.

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<v Speaker 2>Loa Donna had a unique experience. She was able to

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<v Speaker 2>gain the trust of J. C Ryder, who was the

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<v Speaker 2>lead investigator on Melissa's case for years. Donna got access

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<v Speaker 2>to the case file.

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<v Speaker 6>I had brought some information to them in my initial

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<v Speaker 6>work with the documentary that started putting some pieces together

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<v Speaker 6>for them and kind of led them back to a

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<v Speaker 6>suspect that they'd had all along, okay, because he started

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<v Speaker 6>contacting me.

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<v Speaker 5>Because this was before I was a private investigator. I

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<v Speaker 5>was just.

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<v Speaker 6>Normal citizen filmmaker doing my thing, and I think that

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<v Speaker 6>they realized that this could be a perfect storm really

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<v Speaker 6>for the WIB case because it was bringing renewed interest.

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<v Speaker 6>But not only that, there was information that was coming

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<v Speaker 6>into the case that was valuable that I was turning.

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<v Speaker 5>Over to them that they had never gotten before.

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<v Speaker 6>And they made a decision then as a department that

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<v Speaker 6>they were going to allow me to see the case files.

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<v Speaker 5>There was a bunch of rules around it that couldn't

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<v Speaker 5>take any of it with me, you know, I.

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<v Speaker 6>Couldn't share the information in the film, some of it,

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<v Speaker 6>but they felt like I needed to know some of

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<v Speaker 6>the information basically because I was dealing with some of

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<v Speaker 6>the characters that they were looking at really closely in

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<v Speaker 6>Melissa's murder. But yeah, it was interesting because that doesn't

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<v Speaker 6>happen very often, and they allow me to stay to

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<v Speaker 6>continue to stay involved in the case because now it's

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<v Speaker 6>more of a partnership than anything else to you know.

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<v Speaker 5>Get justice from Melissa.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to go through some of the theories in

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<v Speaker 2>the case, but first we have to go back to

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning, to the last twenty four hours of Melissa's

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<v Speaker 2>life to see if there's anything that we missed. Melissa

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<v Speaker 2>was pretty bubbly, friendly and kind. Her friend Tara, talked

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<v Speaker 2>to local news channel News five about how she became

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<v Speaker 2>fast friends with Melissa when they were around five or

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<v Speaker 2>six years old. She said that they would ride their

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<v Speaker 2>bikes around town and go to local fast food restaurants

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<v Speaker 2>like KFC and Hardy's. They would buy candy cigarettes and

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<v Speaker 2>pretend to smoke them. When they got to high school,

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<v Speaker 2>Tara said Melissa always retained that friendly innocence. They would

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<v Speaker 2>cruise around town on the weekends. Melissa would talk about

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<v Speaker 2>boys who she thought were cute, but for the most part,

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<v Speaker 2>Tara said, Melissa remained focused on school. Melissa was an

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<v Speaker 2>honor student and a cheerleader. She didn't have a regular

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<v Speaker 2>boyfriend in high school, but she did have lots of friends.

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<v Speaker 2>After graduation, Melissa enrolled at West Dark Community College, which

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<v Speaker 2>is now part of the University of Arkansas at Fort Smith.

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<v Speaker 2>Melissa also had a part time job at a dentist's office.

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<v Speaker 2>She was studying to be a dental assistant. On that Thursday,

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<v Speaker 2>after leaving home, Melissa had classes in the morning, then

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<v Speaker 2>she had lunch with a friend at the mall. That afternoon,

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<v Speaker 2>she went over to Family Dentistry. The dentist office where

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<v Speaker 2>she worked. The dentist, doctor Jennings, and the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>her colleagues said Melissa was her happy and normal, bubbly self.

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing seemed out of the ordinary that day. Melissa left

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<v Speaker 2>work a little after five pm. But then something out

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<v Speaker 2>of the ordinary did happen because when she got outside,

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<v Speaker 2>her car wouldn't start. Now a woman Melissa worked with

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<v Speaker 2>told five News that what happened was Melissa had left

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<v Speaker 2>her lights on for too long, so she needed to

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<v Speaker 2>get a jump. This coworker said they were looking for

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<v Speaker 2>someone with jumper cables. They went next door and found

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<v Speaker 2>a guy who worked at a business there. This was

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<v Speaker 2>the person l Donna called the Good Samaritan in her book,

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<v Speaker 2>The Good Samaritan helped Melissa jumpstarter car. The coworker told

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<v Speaker 2>the news station that she stayed to watch Melissa start

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<v Speaker 2>the jump process. Then when the cables were attached, she

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<v Speaker 2>told Melissa to just leave her car running for like

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen minutes to make sure the battery was charged. Then

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<v Speaker 2>the coworker left. Now, in her book and in multiple

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<v Speaker 2>media reports, we learned that the Good Samaritan was cleared

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<v Speaker 2>by police pretty early in the investigation. But as we

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<v Speaker 2>know from previous seasons of Helen Gone, we can't assume anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I asked the Donna about the Good Samaritan.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, obviously when someone goes missing, as you know,

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<v Speaker 5>they're going to look at the day's activities pretty closely.

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<v Speaker 6>And of course that was pretty suspicious to law enforcement

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<v Speaker 6>because to have her car not started, and they looked

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<v Speaker 6>at that really really closely. The Good Samaritan, who they

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<v Speaker 6>try not to name just to not disrupt.

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<v Speaker 7>His life, he worked nearby to the dental office, and

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<v Speaker 7>as it turns out, she had left her lights on

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<v Speaker 7>her car most of the day, starting from when she

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<v Speaker 7>had been at the mall to have lunch, and that's what.

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<v Speaker 5>Killed the battery. And so they looked at him so closely.

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<v Speaker 6>In fact, I think he was probably interviewed maybe half

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<v Speaker 6>a dozen times, and he just.

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<v Speaker 5>Had no connection to what had happened to her.

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<v Speaker 6>It was one of those things that you know, he

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<v Speaker 6>was a good smart and he helped her, but it

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<v Speaker 6>was almost like he was at the wrong place at

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<v Speaker 6>the wrong.

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<v Speaker 5>Time because she went missing that day. But he was

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<v Speaker 5>completely cleared by law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 2>After getting her car started, Melissa drove home, which was

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<v Speaker 2>just a few minutes from the dental office. She left

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<v Speaker 2>work at five point fifty, so this would have put

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<v Speaker 2>her home a little after six Her dental scrubs were

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<v Speaker 2>found crumpled up on her bedroom floor, like she had

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<v Speaker 2>taken them off to do a quick clothing change, and

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<v Speaker 2>her mom later told investigators that, based on the clothes

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<v Speaker 2>that were missing, Melissa changed into jeans, a white V

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<v Speaker 2>neck sweater, silver hoop, earrings with a wavy pattern on them,

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<v Speaker 2>and a Mickey Mouse wristwatch. Police figured out later that

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<v Speaker 2>Melissa must have seen her mother's note because Melissa then

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<v Speaker 2>headed out to Bowling world Sstigators estimated Melissa arrived at

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<v Speaker 2>Bowling World between six thirty and seven PM. Now, at

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<v Speaker 2>that time, the parking lot would have been pretty full.

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<v Speaker 2>The bowling league was popular by the time Melissa got there,

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much everyone would have been inside, which is part

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<v Speaker 2>of the reason why police later could not find many witnesses.

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<v Speaker 2>But Melissa never made it inside. Mary Anne, of course

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<v Speaker 2>noticed that Melissa never showed up at Bowling World, and

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<v Speaker 2>after she got home and saw Melissa's car was not

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<v Speaker 2>there at the house, she got worried. Mary Anne called

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<v Speaker 2>Melissa's friends, but no one had seen her. The next morning,

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<v Speaker 2>Friday morning, Melissa's friend Tara said that her mother walked

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<v Speaker 2>into her room and asked if she'd heard from Melissa.

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<v Speaker 2>Her mom said Maryanne had called the house looking for Melissa.

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<v Speaker 2>Tara said no, but she said they were supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>go out on that Friday night. She figured they would

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<v Speaker 2>catch up later. Then Tara went to class. They had

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<v Speaker 2>a biology class together, and when Melissa didn't show up

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<v Speaker 2>in that biology class, Tara immediately suspected something bad had happened.

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<v Speaker 2>This was not like Melissa. Melissa was extremely responsible. That's

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<v Speaker 2>when Marianne went to the police. But then the first

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<v Speaker 2>officer to talk to mary Anne, in my opinion, made

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<v Speaker 2>a crucial and unfortunately a far too common error. We

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<v Speaker 2>see this over and over in this podcast and in

0:14:07.401 --> 0:14:11.241
<v Speaker 2>our investigations. Mary Anne was talking about what happened that morning,

0:14:11.361 --> 0:14:14.241
<v Speaker 2>and she mentioned that small argument she had gotten into

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.761
<v Speaker 2>with Melissa over the twenty dollars that apparently led the

0:14:17.841 --> 0:14:20.401
<v Speaker 2>officer to believe that Melissa could.

0:14:20.201 --> 0:14:20.921
<v Speaker 3>Have been a runaway.

0:14:21.721 --> 0:14:26.241
<v Speaker 2>Since Melissa was over eighteen and was an adult, of course,

0:14:26.321 --> 0:14:29.081
<v Speaker 2>she did have the right to disappear voluntarily, but mary

0:14:29.121 --> 0:14:32.441
<v Speaker 2>Anne and all Melissa's friends kept telling police there was

0:14:32.481 --> 0:14:34.921
<v Speaker 2>no way she would do that. This was not like Melissa.

0:14:35.241 --> 0:14:38.401
<v Speaker 2>This was completely out of character. She would not just disappear.

0:14:39.321 --> 0:14:43.201
<v Speaker 2>Because of this delay by police, crucial hours in the

0:14:43.241 --> 0:14:47.481
<v Speaker 2>beginning of the investigation were lost. Melissa's family did not

0:14:47.561 --> 0:14:50.001
<v Speaker 2>want to wait, so they got together with some of

0:14:50.041 --> 0:14:52.161
<v Speaker 2>her friends and other members of the community and they

0:14:52.201 --> 0:14:55.681
<v Speaker 2>started searching for her. They printed thousands of flyers with

0:14:55.721 --> 0:14:58.401
<v Speaker 2>Melissa's picture on them. They also put her picture on

0:14:58.441 --> 0:15:02.321
<v Speaker 2>billboards around town. Local news media took the story and

0:15:02.481 --> 0:15:05.401
<v Speaker 2>ran with it, and once that story hit local news,

0:15:05.721 --> 0:15:09.321
<v Speaker 2>a crucial tip came in. A Bowling World employee called

0:15:09.321 --> 0:15:11.721
<v Speaker 2>the police and told them that on the night Melissa

0:15:11.721 --> 0:15:14.961
<v Speaker 2>went missing, a construction worker and his family turned in

0:15:15.001 --> 0:15:17.601
<v Speaker 2>a set of keys they found in the parking lot.

0:15:17.801 --> 0:15:20.961
<v Speaker 2>This happened at around seven forty five pm, so this

0:15:21.001 --> 0:15:23.201
<v Speaker 2>would have been just a few minutes after police say

0:15:23.241 --> 0:15:27.081
<v Speaker 2>Melissa arrived at Bowling World. The key ring had Missy

0:15:27.121 --> 0:15:31.881
<v Speaker 2>written on it. The keys belonged to Melissa. Later forensic

0:15:31.921 --> 0:15:35.401
<v Speaker 2>testing would reveal they had tiny specks of blood on them.

0:15:35.921 --> 0:15:39.201
<v Speaker 2>At that point, police did suspect foul play. They turned

0:15:39.201 --> 0:15:42.041
<v Speaker 2>the case over to the Fort Smith Major Crimes Unit,

0:15:42.641 --> 0:15:45.161
<v Speaker 2>and that's when investig Gator J. C. Rider took over

0:15:45.201 --> 0:15:48.681
<v Speaker 2>the case. Now should mention here that J. C Ryder

0:15:48.961 --> 0:15:52.881
<v Speaker 2>has his own checkered history. Ledonna has worked with him

0:15:52.961 --> 0:15:56.521
<v Speaker 2>for years. She presents him as a competent, carrying investigator

0:15:56.521 --> 0:15:59.241
<v Speaker 2>who's been instrumental in getting the word out about Melissa

0:15:59.241 --> 0:16:03.361
<v Speaker 2>WIT's case and never giving up. But as you all know,

0:16:04.081 --> 0:16:07.321
<v Speaker 2>I don't take anything for granted, including the backgrounds of

0:16:07.361 --> 0:16:11.321
<v Speaker 2>the people investigating the case. The allegations against J. C

0:16:11.521 --> 0:16:14.201
<v Speaker 2>Rder go back to a man named Ron Fields. He

0:16:14.361 --> 0:16:16.921
<v Speaker 2>was the deputy prosecuting attorney in Fort Smith from the

0:16:17.001 --> 0:16:20.081
<v Speaker 2>late seventies until two thousand and five. Back in nineteen

0:16:20.121 --> 0:16:23.201
<v Speaker 2>ninety five, when J. C Ryder was police captain, the

0:16:23.281 --> 0:16:27.441
<v Speaker 2>FBI investigated claims that Ron Fields was dealing drugs and

0:16:27.561 --> 0:16:30.721
<v Speaker 2>operating basically a hit squad that some people compared to

0:16:30.721 --> 0:16:33.761
<v Speaker 2>the movie That Departed Inside the Fort Smith Police Department,

0:16:34.641 --> 0:16:38.961
<v Speaker 2>the FBI investigated allegations that Ron Fields ordered J. C

0:16:39.121 --> 0:16:42.561
<v Speaker 2>Ryder to kill a woman named Laurie Murchison and to

0:16:42.561 --> 0:16:45.081
<v Speaker 2>get rid of her body. We're actually going to do

0:16:45.161 --> 0:16:49.321
<v Speaker 2>an entirely separate episode about Lourie Murchison. It's way too

0:16:49.401 --> 0:16:52.921
<v Speaker 2>complex and comprehensive to cover here, but needless to say,

0:16:53.441 --> 0:16:58.041
<v Speaker 2>Ron Fields later became a suspect in Laurie's disappearance. J

0:16:58.281 --> 0:17:01.801
<v Speaker 2>c Ryder, through his attorneys, has always maintained that those

0:17:01.841 --> 0:17:06.481
<v Speaker 2>federal charges were completely ridiculous and not true. Jac's lawyer

0:17:06.521 --> 0:17:08.881
<v Speaker 2>at the time told the Arkansas Democrat Gazette that their

0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.721
<v Speaker 2>quote absolutely nuts. The lawyer said the FBI basically went

0:17:13.761 --> 0:17:16.961
<v Speaker 2>in and intimidated and threatened people to give them information.

0:17:17.801 --> 0:17:20.321
<v Speaker 2>The lawyer said the whole thing was a witch hunt.

0:17:21.241 --> 0:17:24.161
<v Speaker 2>The police detective who led the investigation into Lourie's death

0:17:24.281 --> 0:17:25.120
<v Speaker 2>also back j c.

0:17:25.281 --> 0:17:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Rider.

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.561
<v Speaker 2>The detective said the evidence pointed to Lourie dying of

0:17:29.561 --> 0:17:33.001
<v Speaker 2>a drug overdose and that there was a suspect in

0:17:33.001 --> 0:17:35.881
<v Speaker 2>that case, someone who was imprisoned in Oklahoma, a place

0:17:35.921 --> 0:17:39.241
<v Speaker 2>where Lourie traveled often. But the detective said they just

0:17:39.241 --> 0:17:41.881
<v Speaker 2>didn't have enough evidence to charge that person in connection

0:17:41.921 --> 0:17:46.481
<v Speaker 2>with Laurie's death. Going back to Melissa with so now

0:17:46.481 --> 0:17:50.481
<v Speaker 2>it's December fourth, three days after Melissa disappeared, j c

0:17:50.681 --> 0:17:53.041
<v Speaker 2>Ryder was assigned to the case. He and his fellow

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:57.281
<v Speaker 2>detectives immediately searched the parking lot of Bowling World, and

0:17:57.361 --> 0:18:00.841
<v Speaker 2>they found Melissa's white car abandoned there in the northwest

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.761
<v Speaker 2>corner of the parking lot, so her car had been

0:18:04.801 --> 0:18:06.241
<v Speaker 2>sitting there for three days.

0:18:06.961 --> 0:18:07.121
<v Speaker 6>Now.

0:18:07.161 --> 0:18:09.360
<v Speaker 2>This seemed a little bit weird at first that no

0:18:09.401 --> 0:18:13.281
<v Speaker 2>one noticed that, but Melissa's mom hadn't seen it because

0:18:13.361 --> 0:18:15.641
<v Speaker 2>again it was in the outer part of the lot

0:18:15.921 --> 0:18:18.241
<v Speaker 2>when she came out and didn't see Melissa that night,

0:18:18.361 --> 0:18:21.481
<v Speaker 2>she just assumed that Melissa never came to Bowling World.

0:18:22.241 --> 0:18:25.761
<v Speaker 2>Officers searched around that car, and they found drops of blood.

0:18:26.561 --> 0:18:29.441
<v Speaker 2>Melissa's blood had never been tested, so they couldn't confirm

0:18:29.481 --> 0:18:31.961
<v Speaker 2>then that it was a match. But the drops of

0:18:31.961 --> 0:18:35.161
<v Speaker 2>blood led pretty much from Melissa's vehicle over to the

0:18:35.201 --> 0:18:39.160
<v Speaker 2>next row of cars. So the police theory was that

0:18:39.161 --> 0:18:43.201
<v Speaker 2>Melissa was attacked and thrown into someone else's vehicle, and

0:18:43.241 --> 0:18:45.641
<v Speaker 2>that the blood blood either came from her being hit,

0:18:46.041 --> 0:18:49.161
<v Speaker 2>probably with a blunt force object, or when her head

0:18:49.241 --> 0:18:53.641
<v Speaker 2>hit the parking lot pavement. Now police had what they

0:18:53.721 --> 0:18:58.640
<v Speaker 2>believed to be the primary crime scene, they started looking

0:18:58.681 --> 0:19:02.961
<v Speaker 2>for witnesses. Initially, there were reports that witnesses had seen

0:19:03.001 --> 0:19:06.401
<v Speaker 2>Melissa with someone they described as a black, six foot

0:19:06.441 --> 0:19:09.840
<v Speaker 2>two male. Rumors were flying that she had been involved

0:19:09.881 --> 0:19:13.120
<v Speaker 2>in drug deals or sex trafficking, mainly because at the

0:19:13.201 --> 0:19:15.681
<v Speaker 2>time there were a lot of people who dealt drugs,

0:19:15.881 --> 0:19:22.201
<v Speaker 2>especially methamphetamines, near Fort Chaffee, the military base, but that

0:19:22.361 --> 0:19:26.281
<v Speaker 2>sighting was later confirmed to be a totally erroneous mistake.

0:19:27.041 --> 0:19:30.241
<v Speaker 2>Police did eventually find someone who was a credible witness,

0:19:30.721 --> 0:19:33.121
<v Speaker 2>a ten year old boy who was actually the son

0:19:33.201 --> 0:19:37.160
<v Speaker 2>of one of mary Anne's friends. While his mom was

0:19:37.201 --> 0:19:39.321
<v Speaker 2>playing with mary Anne in the bowling league that night,

0:19:40.041 --> 0:19:41.681
<v Speaker 2>she sent him out to the car to get some

0:19:41.761 --> 0:19:44.840
<v Speaker 2>textbooks so he could start doing his homework. When the

0:19:44.881 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 2>boy came back in, he said that he saw a

0:19:47.641 --> 0:19:50.881
<v Speaker 2>man and a woman fighting in the parking lot. At

0:19:50.881 --> 0:19:53.041
<v Speaker 2>the time, his mom didn't think too much about it,

0:19:53.761 --> 0:19:59.761
<v Speaker 2>but police later believed that he witnessed Melissa with her abductor. Unfortunately,

0:20:00.241 --> 0:20:03.281
<v Speaker 2>the boy didn't see enough of the kidnapper's appearance to

0:20:03.281 --> 0:20:07.641
<v Speaker 2>make a full sketch. Another early missing poster said Melissa

0:20:07.641 --> 0:20:11.001
<v Speaker 2>had been spotted quote possibly in nineteen eighty one gray

0:20:11.121 --> 0:20:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Oldsmobile cutlass with a tall, white male with black, wavy

0:20:14.681 --> 0:20:18.041
<v Speaker 2>hair and an earring end quote. I saw this tip

0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.880
<v Speaker 2>on a missing poster from an old news report, and

0:20:20.961 --> 0:20:22.801
<v Speaker 2>I still don't know who reported it or where that

0:20:22.881 --> 0:20:26.801
<v Speaker 2>came from. As with so many investigations that get a

0:20:26.801 --> 0:20:30.041
<v Speaker 2>lot of press, thousands of tips were flooding in, so

0:20:30.161 --> 0:20:32.201
<v Speaker 2>now police had to figure out which ones were good

0:20:32.321 --> 0:20:36.041
<v Speaker 2>leads and which ones were dead ends. Everyone in town

0:20:36.121 --> 0:20:39.241
<v Speaker 2>had a theory about who could have killed Melissa. Was

0:20:39.281 --> 0:20:41.441
<v Speaker 2>it a drug deal gone bad? Was it a random

0:20:41.481 --> 0:20:44.281
<v Speaker 2>serial killer who came in off Interstate five while passing

0:20:44.321 --> 0:20:48.921
<v Speaker 2>through town, or was it someone she knew. Melissa's personal

0:20:48.961 --> 0:20:52.641
<v Speaker 2>life didn't seem to offer a lot of clues. At first,

0:20:52.881 --> 0:20:55.521
<v Speaker 2>she was well liked, She didn't have any enemies. She

0:20:55.561 --> 0:20:59.160
<v Speaker 2>also didn't have any turmoil in her personal relationship. No

0:20:59.281 --> 0:21:02.241
<v Speaker 2>fighting with boyfriends, or at least not ones that anyone

0:21:02.321 --> 0:21:06.681
<v Speaker 2>knew about. The holiday season passed mary Anne's first one

0:21:06.721 --> 0:21:07.441
<v Speaker 2>without her daughter.

0:21:08.601 --> 0:21:10.961
<v Speaker 3>No one had a clue what happened to Melissa.

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.801
<v Speaker 2>Almost six weeks later, on January thirteenth, nineteen ninety five,

0:21:16.441 --> 0:21:19.241
<v Speaker 2>two hunters were near Turner Bend in the Ozark National

0:21:19.281 --> 0:21:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Forest when they saw a nude body. Dental records proved

0:21:24.601 --> 0:21:30.081
<v Speaker 2>this was Melissa Wit. Melissa had been found. This was tragic,

0:21:30.761 --> 0:21:33.241
<v Speaker 2>but detectives hope now they would be able to gather

0:21:33.321 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 2>evidence from her body, hopefully evidence that would get them

0:21:36.121 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 2>closer to finding her killer. Melissa was naked, so all

0:21:40.681 --> 0:21:44.680
<v Speaker 2>of her clothing, shoes, and jewelry, including her other earring

0:21:45.201 --> 0:21:47.921
<v Speaker 2>and her Mickey Mouse watch with a brown band, were

0:21:47.961 --> 0:21:53.521
<v Speaker 2>all missing. Her autopsy revealed blunt forest head injuries, either

0:21:53.601 --> 0:21:56.080
<v Speaker 2>from an object she was struck with or possibly from

0:21:56.121 --> 0:22:00.001
<v Speaker 2>her head hitting the ground. Then Melissa's killer or killers

0:22:00.681 --> 0:22:03.321
<v Speaker 2>probably put her into a vehicle in the next row

0:22:03.321 --> 0:22:06.481
<v Speaker 2>of cars. Someone drove her to that area where her

0:22:06.521 --> 0:22:11.161
<v Speaker 2>body was found. Investigators believe that remote location is where

0:22:11.201 --> 0:22:15.321
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Whit died. It's located down a single lane dirt

0:22:15.401 --> 0:22:19.721
<v Speaker 2>road that's used for logging. The autopsy revealed that the

0:22:19.761 --> 0:22:24.641
<v Speaker 2>cause of death was exphyxiation by strangulation. When I spoke

0:22:24.721 --> 0:22:27.841
<v Speaker 2>to her, le Donna talked about how she retraced Melissa's

0:22:27.881 --> 0:22:30.881
<v Speaker 2>root and how horrifying it must have been for her

0:22:31.201 --> 0:22:34.321
<v Speaker 2>to be riding in that car with a head wound bleeding,

0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.801
<v Speaker 2>knowing that something horrible was about to happen to her.

0:22:38.601 --> 0:22:39.201
<v Speaker 5>Love for sand.

0:22:39.201 --> 0:22:41.801
<v Speaker 6>They take me out to its remote site in the

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.801
<v Speaker 6>Ozark National Chorus, and I had a sense of dread.

0:22:45.881 --> 0:22:48.600
<v Speaker 6>The whole way there because it's it's just this, you know,

0:22:48.601 --> 0:22:52.001
<v Speaker 6>there's a lot of beauty to look at, but knowing

0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:54.841
<v Speaker 6>how remote it was as we're you know, winding around

0:22:54.921 --> 0:22:57.201
<v Speaker 6>and seeing like there was nowhere for her to go,

0:22:57.921 --> 0:22:59.200
<v Speaker 6>nowhere for her to escape.

0:22:59.441 --> 0:23:02.361
<v Speaker 5>And when we parked the car and I got out,

0:23:02.481 --> 0:23:05.080
<v Speaker 5>one of the first things that j. C Ryder looked

0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:06.921
<v Speaker 5>at me and said was, if you.

0:23:07.001 --> 0:23:10.401
<v Speaker 6>Screamed right now, Ladna, Hon'll bring nobody would hear you.

0:23:11.801 --> 0:23:18.801
<v Speaker 5>And I remember being just almost to the point of tears.

0:23:18.401 --> 0:23:21.400
<v Speaker 6>And I'm not like a crier, really very easy, but

0:23:22.121 --> 0:23:25.881
<v Speaker 6>realizing this nineteen year old girl was out there at

0:23:26.001 --> 0:23:29.080
<v Speaker 6>night was someone who had already attacked her in a

0:23:29.121 --> 0:23:29.681
<v Speaker 6>parking lot.

0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.041
<v Speaker 5>She had to have known what was going to happen next.

0:23:32.601 --> 0:23:37.321
<v Speaker 6>The amount of fear that she had, and that part

0:23:37.321 --> 0:23:40.561
<v Speaker 6>of the case really broke me, especially seeing where he

0:23:40.641 --> 0:23:43.161
<v Speaker 6>left her, you know, eventually left her body like.

0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:43.681
<v Speaker 5>She didn't matter.

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:49.281
<v Speaker 2>Investigators said they found pieces of leaves in Melissa's lungs

0:23:49.481 --> 0:23:51.761
<v Speaker 2>and grass and other vegetation that was native to the

0:23:51.761 --> 0:23:55.561
<v Speaker 2>Ozark National Forest in her windpipe. This led them to

0:23:55.601 --> 0:23:58.721
<v Speaker 2>believe that after Melissa was kidnapped from the Bowling World

0:23:58.761 --> 0:24:01.801
<v Speaker 2>parking lot. She was immediately driven to that location in

0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:08.161
<v Speaker 2>the forest, then sexually assaulted and killed there. Because Melissa's

0:24:08.201 --> 0:24:10.761
<v Speaker 2>body was nude, investigators assumed that there had been a

0:24:10.761 --> 0:24:15.361
<v Speaker 2>sexual assault. According to the autopsy report, there was another

0:24:15.521 --> 0:24:20.521
<v Speaker 2>strange twist of the case. Melissa's body had been moved. First,

0:24:20.521 --> 0:24:22.601
<v Speaker 2>it was put behind a large rock that was kind

0:24:22.641 --> 0:24:25.521
<v Speaker 2>of shaped like a tombstone. The body was covered with

0:24:25.601 --> 0:24:28.640
<v Speaker 2>pine leaves and that's where it stayed for several weeks,

0:24:29.361 --> 0:24:32.120
<v Speaker 2>but then just a few days before the body was found,

0:24:32.881 --> 0:24:37.241
<v Speaker 2>someone moved it. Over the years, JC Riders offered up

0:24:37.241 --> 0:24:40.481
<v Speaker 2>a couple of theories about why he believes someone would

0:24:40.521 --> 0:24:43.961
<v Speaker 2>have moved Melissa's body. He said, either it's because as

0:24:44.681 --> 0:24:47.241
<v Speaker 2>the killer wanted credit for the kill, so they wanted

0:24:47.281 --> 0:24:48.641
<v Speaker 2>the body to be found so that it would be

0:24:48.681 --> 0:24:51.201
<v Speaker 2>written about and they would get some kind of celebrity status.

0:24:51.881 --> 0:24:55.241
<v Speaker 2>Or maybe the move was out of sympathy. Maybe it

0:24:55.281 --> 0:24:57.921
<v Speaker 2>was someone who knew Melissa and wanted to make sure

0:24:58.001 --> 0:25:00.041
<v Speaker 2>that she was found so that her friends and family

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:03.761
<v Speaker 2>would have some kind of closure. There's also a third possibility,

0:25:03.801 --> 0:25:06.801
<v Speaker 2>by the way, that someone who was not Melissa's killer

0:25:06.961 --> 0:25:10.801
<v Speaker 2>or involved in her murder, found the body and decided

0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 2>to move it, but didn't want to admit that because

0:25:13.641 --> 0:25:17.281
<v Speaker 2>maybe they lived nearby or had history law enforcement and

0:25:17.761 --> 0:25:19.840
<v Speaker 2>were just scared to talk to police for some reason.

0:25:20.001 --> 0:25:22.561
<v Speaker 2>This theory was bolstered a little bit when police got

0:25:22.601 --> 0:25:25.640
<v Speaker 2>a mysterious phone call the day before the body was found.

0:25:26.881 --> 0:25:30.321
<v Speaker 2>In that call, it sounded like there were two people talking.

0:25:30.921 --> 0:25:33.360
<v Speaker 2>You could hear an older woman. Police later said, it

0:25:33.401 --> 0:25:36.281
<v Speaker 2>sounded like a grandmother and a grandson, and you can

0:25:36.321 --> 0:25:38.681
<v Speaker 2>hear the woman saying, tell them what you found, Tell

0:25:38.721 --> 0:25:39.521
<v Speaker 2>them what you found.

0:25:40.401 --> 0:25:42.081
<v Speaker 3>Then the caller hangs up.

0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:46.801
<v Speaker 2>Police cannot def say that that caller was connected to

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:50.401
<v Speaker 2>Melissa whit, but the timing seems like a pretty big coincidence.

0:25:51.281 --> 0:25:54.361
<v Speaker 2>Police never found that caller, and back then they had

0:25:54.361 --> 0:25:55.761
<v Speaker 2>no way to trace them.

0:25:56.481 --> 0:25:57.641
<v Speaker 3>Le Donna has said.

0:25:57.401 --> 0:25:59.360
<v Speaker 2>By the way, that she does not agree with law

0:25:59.441 --> 0:26:03.400
<v Speaker 2>enforcements theory because the night Melissa was killed was a

0:26:03.441 --> 0:26:07.481
<v Speaker 2>really cold night. She thinks it's possible Melissa was sexually

0:26:07.481 --> 0:26:11.761
<v Speaker 2>assaulted somewhere else, maybe even kept somewhere for days or weeks,

0:26:12.441 --> 0:26:14.681
<v Speaker 2>and then was murdered near where the body was dumped.

0:26:15.681 --> 0:26:17.481
<v Speaker 2>When I look at these cases, I always go back

0:26:17.481 --> 0:26:20.001
<v Speaker 2>to the very beginning. I asked myself if it was

0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:23.481
<v Speaker 2>possible that Bowling World was not the primary crime scene.

0:26:24.201 --> 0:26:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Maybe Melissa had left that parking lot with someone and

0:26:26.921 --> 0:26:29.201
<v Speaker 2>later they took the car back and parked it there.

0:26:29.241 --> 0:26:32.041
<v Speaker 2>After all, it wasn't found for three days. I have

0:26:32.241 --> 0:26:35.761
<v Speaker 2>seen this in other cases. Anyone who has basic knowledge

0:26:35.801 --> 0:26:38.721
<v Speaker 2>of crime scenes. No, if you can waste police time

0:26:39.121 --> 0:26:41.681
<v Speaker 2>by staging a false crime scene, you can throw them

0:26:41.721 --> 0:26:46.281
<v Speaker 2>off the trail for quite a while. But Melissa's keys

0:26:46.401 --> 0:26:48.281
<v Speaker 2>and the spots of blood made me think this is

0:26:48.361 --> 0:26:51.640
<v Speaker 2>much less likely because those keys were turned in at

0:26:51.641 --> 0:26:53.241
<v Speaker 2>around seven forty five pm.

0:26:53.921 --> 0:26:54.881
<v Speaker 3>But the fact that the.

0:26:54.881 --> 0:26:58.161
<v Speaker 2>Body was moved and some other little odd tidbits about

0:26:58.201 --> 0:27:01.880
<v Speaker 2>this case made me think it's definitely possible that the

0:27:01.921 --> 0:27:06.561
<v Speaker 2>crime scene was stage. Maybe sexual assault wasn't the motive.

0:27:07.041 --> 0:27:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Maybe someone was angry with Melissa and hit her and

0:27:10.001 --> 0:27:11.721
<v Speaker 2>then took her out to the dumb site and took

0:27:11.721 --> 0:27:15.081
<v Speaker 2>her clothes off, even to conceal evidence, or also maybe

0:27:15.121 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 2>to make it look like a random serial killer did it.

0:27:18.761 --> 0:27:21.281
<v Speaker 2>So let's go back to what could have happened that

0:27:21.401 --> 0:27:25.121
<v Speaker 2>night in the parking lot at Bowling World. Melissa got

0:27:25.121 --> 0:27:27.801
<v Speaker 2>to Bowling World. The parking lot was pretty full because

0:27:27.801 --> 0:27:31.761
<v Speaker 2>of the Ladies' leak. Almost everyone was inside. Melissa got

0:27:31.761 --> 0:27:35.041
<v Speaker 2>out of her car, and whatever happened had to happen

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:37.441
<v Speaker 2>really quickly because she had her keys in her hand.

0:27:38.561 --> 0:27:41.481
<v Speaker 2>Presumably she didn't take the time to lock her car

0:27:41.601 --> 0:27:44.160
<v Speaker 2>and put them into her purse, because her purse was missing,

0:27:44.161 --> 0:27:47.801
<v Speaker 2>but the keys were there. Melissa started arguing with someone.

0:27:48.281 --> 0:27:51.961
<v Speaker 2>The argument got heated. Maybe she got scared and went

0:27:52.001 --> 0:27:55.481
<v Speaker 2>to get back inside her car, but before she had

0:27:55.521 --> 0:27:57.080
<v Speaker 2>time to put the keys in the door and to

0:27:57.080 --> 0:27:59.841
<v Speaker 2>get back in her car to safety, the killer hit

0:27:59.881 --> 0:28:02.880
<v Speaker 2>her over the head with a blunt fors object, grabbed

0:28:02.881 --> 0:28:05.961
<v Speaker 2>her and threw her into their vehicle. This would have

0:28:06.001 --> 0:28:09.080
<v Speaker 2>taken just a few seconds, just long enough for the

0:28:09.161 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 2>keys to slip out of her hands, and that would

0:28:11.121 --> 0:28:14.681
<v Speaker 2>also explain another piece of evidence they found there, Melissa's

0:28:14.681 --> 0:28:18.681
<v Speaker 2>crushed hair clip. The killer or killers grabbed Melissa's bag

0:28:18.761 --> 0:28:21.801
<v Speaker 2>and threw it in the vehicle with them, but probably

0:28:21.801 --> 0:28:26.840
<v Speaker 2>in their panic, they didn't notice those keys. Almost every

0:28:26.881 --> 0:28:30.120
<v Speaker 2>single theory that has been mentioned in connection with this case,

0:28:30.281 --> 0:28:32.080
<v Speaker 2>all of them have one thing in common. This was

0:28:32.161 --> 0:28:35.880
<v Speaker 2>not a planned attack. This was something probably an argument

0:28:35.921 --> 0:28:38.881
<v Speaker 2>that got out of control and escalated, which brings us

0:28:38.921 --> 0:28:41.801
<v Speaker 2>back to who would have known that Melissa was going

0:28:41.841 --> 0:28:45.321
<v Speaker 2>to be there that night. The years police have gotten

0:28:45.401 --> 0:28:48.201
<v Speaker 2>thousands of tips, there have been a few people of

0:28:48.241 --> 0:28:50.361
<v Speaker 2>interests who've come up over and over, and we're going

0:28:50.401 --> 0:28:54.281
<v Speaker 2>to go over those now. One person of interest who

0:28:54.561 --> 0:28:58.241
<v Speaker 2>was mentioned pretty early on was a guy named Larry Sweeringin.

0:28:58.921 --> 0:29:01.321
<v Speaker 2>He was convicted of the nineteen ninety nine murder of

0:29:01.361 --> 0:29:04.841
<v Speaker 2>a young woman named Melissa Trotter in Texas. Le Donna

0:29:04.881 --> 0:29:07.561
<v Speaker 2>wrote in her book there were actually a lot of similarities,

0:29:07.601 --> 0:29:10.601
<v Speaker 2>at least on the surface, between Melissa Trotter's case and

0:29:10.641 --> 0:29:13.681
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Whit's case, other than the obvious, which is they

0:29:13.721 --> 0:29:16.801
<v Speaker 2>had the same first name. Both Melissa Trotter and Melissa

0:29:16.841 --> 0:29:19.841
<v Speaker 2>Witt were nineteen years old, Both of them were strangled.

0:29:20.321 --> 0:29:23.441
<v Speaker 2>Both were found several weeks after they disappeared in national

0:29:23.441 --> 0:29:28.201
<v Speaker 2>forest areas. Melissa Trotter's body was found on January twenty second,

0:29:28.281 --> 0:29:31.761
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety nine, in sam Houston National Forest in Texas.

0:29:32.641 --> 0:29:35.921
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Trotter had a knife wound on her neck, her

0:29:35.961 --> 0:29:38.161
<v Speaker 2>throat had been cut, and the pockets of her shorts

0:29:38.201 --> 0:29:42.041
<v Speaker 2>were torn, exposing her red underwear. She had been strangled

0:29:42.081 --> 0:29:45.561
<v Speaker 2>with a pair of panny hose. Larry Swaringen was twenty

0:29:45.601 --> 0:29:47.960
<v Speaker 2>seven years old, he was married, and he had a

0:29:48.041 --> 0:29:52.521
<v Speaker 2>long criminal history with allegations of sexual assault against multiple women.

0:29:53.841 --> 0:29:56.121
<v Speaker 2>It turned out that there were a lot of issues

0:29:56.161 --> 0:30:00.121
<v Speaker 2>with the case against Larry Swaringen. There were serious problems

0:30:00.121 --> 0:30:03.761
<v Speaker 2>with the physical evidence, though, actually the biggest issue in

0:30:03.801 --> 0:30:07.841
<v Speaker 2>the case against Larry Swaringen was the timing. The Houston

0:30:07.921 --> 0:30:12.521
<v Speaker 2>medical examiner who conducted the autopsy testified during Larry Swaringen's

0:30:12.601 --> 0:30:16.401
<v Speaker 2>trial that Melissa Trotter had been dead the entire time

0:30:16.441 --> 0:30:19.721
<v Speaker 2>that she was missing, so for almost three weeks. But

0:30:19.801 --> 0:30:23.521
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and seven, the medical examiner recanted her testimony.

0:30:24.201 --> 0:30:27.241
<v Speaker 2>Now she said that Melissa Trotter had been dead for

0:30:27.281 --> 0:30:29.521
<v Speaker 2>no longer than two weeks when her body was found.

0:30:30.361 --> 0:30:33.121
<v Speaker 2>The problem with that is that three days after Melissa

0:30:33.161 --> 0:30:35.921
<v Speaker 2>went missing, the police picked him up on an outstanding warrant,

0:30:35.961 --> 0:30:37.841
<v Speaker 2>and he was in jail when her body was found.

0:30:38.561 --> 0:30:41.881
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely believe that if Larry Swaringen were charged with

0:30:41.921 --> 0:30:45.681
<v Speaker 2>that murder today, he would not be convicted. Not only

0:30:45.721 --> 0:30:48.321
<v Speaker 2>do I not believe he's a viable suspect in Melissa

0:30:48.361 --> 0:30:51.761
<v Speaker 2>Whits case. I think it's highly unlikely that he killed

0:30:51.801 --> 0:30:57.001
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Trotter. But even with all the questionable evidence, Larry's

0:30:57.001 --> 0:30:59.281
<v Speaker 2>Swaringen was convicted and he was sentenced to death.

0:31:00.361 --> 0:31:01.521
<v Speaker 3>After the Innocents.

0:31:01.121 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Project took up the case, his execution was stayed five times,

0:31:05.081 --> 0:31:09.001
<v Speaker 2>but finally Larry Sweringen was executed by lethal injection in

0:31:09.041 --> 0:31:13.601
<v Speaker 2>two thousand. His last words and a final statement were

0:31:13.961 --> 0:31:15.161
<v Speaker 2>quote today.

0:31:15.321 --> 0:31:17.361
<v Speaker 3>The state of Texas murdered an innocent man.

0:31:19.881 --> 0:31:24.481
<v Speaker 2>While police were investigating Melissa Whits case, another possible person

0:31:24.481 --> 0:31:28.001
<v Speaker 2>of interest came up. His name is Travis Dale Crouch.

0:31:28.841 --> 0:31:31.440
<v Speaker 2>He was also known by his nicknames Tramp or Skull.

0:31:32.601 --> 0:31:35.881
<v Speaker 2>Travis is from Ozark and did time for the rape

0:31:35.921 --> 0:31:38.161
<v Speaker 2>of a twenty year old woman in Colorado in nineteen

0:31:38.201 --> 0:31:41.801
<v Speaker 2>ninety seven. Travis was panhandling in a mall parking lot.

0:31:42.001 --> 0:31:45.321
<v Speaker 2>He started chatting with his victim, then he attacked her

0:31:45.321 --> 0:31:48.161
<v Speaker 2>in her own car. He forced her to drive to

0:31:48.201 --> 0:31:51.641
<v Speaker 2>this remote location on a mountaintop, and over a period

0:31:51.681 --> 0:31:56.001
<v Speaker 2>of hours, he subjected her to a brutal sexual assault. Somehow,

0:31:56.001 --> 0:31:59.441
<v Speaker 2>his victim escaped. She was dazed, and she ran out

0:31:59.481 --> 0:32:04.081
<v Speaker 2>of there completely naked and got help. Law enforcements saw

0:32:04.241 --> 0:32:09.121
<v Speaker 2>similarities between this case and Melissa Whits case, and they

0:32:09.121 --> 0:32:12.481
<v Speaker 2>figured out that around the time Melissa disappeared, Travis was

0:32:12.721 --> 0:32:16.601
<v Speaker 2>in Arkansas. Actually, Travis was a carpenter at a church

0:32:16.641 --> 0:32:19.001
<v Speaker 2>camp a few miles from the remote area where Melissa's

0:32:19.001 --> 0:32:22.401
<v Speaker 2>body was found. He was seen driving as Chevrolet Caprice

0:32:22.561 --> 0:32:27.361
<v Speaker 2>near Bowling World around the time when Melissa disappeared. Travis

0:32:27.401 --> 0:32:29.561
<v Speaker 2>was also a deer hunter, so he would have known

0:32:29.641 --> 0:32:33.441
<v Speaker 2>the forest well. Police safe fibers in his car were

0:32:33.521 --> 0:32:36.441
<v Speaker 2>tested at one point, but then nothing more was ever

0:32:36.481 --> 0:32:40.041
<v Speaker 2>reported about the results of those tests. Travis was sentenced

0:32:40.081 --> 0:32:42.401
<v Speaker 2>to sixty four years in prison for the rape of

0:32:42.401 --> 0:32:45.361
<v Speaker 2>the twenty year old victim in Callraer Hto. He becomes

0:32:45.401 --> 0:32:50.601
<v Speaker 2>eligible for parole next year, twenty twenty four. According to

0:32:50.681 --> 0:32:54.441
<v Speaker 2>multiple reports, Travis has also always denied any involvement in

0:32:54.481 --> 0:32:58.161
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Whits murder, which in a way brings us back

0:32:58.201 --> 0:33:03.401
<v Speaker 2>to where we started. We can eliminate some possibilities. None

0:33:03.401 --> 0:33:06.721
<v Speaker 2>of the rumors about drugs or sex trafficking rings made sense.

0:33:07.401 --> 0:33:10.961
<v Speaker 2>Melissa never did drugs. No drugs were found in her system.

0:33:11.721 --> 0:33:15.881
<v Speaker 2>Police later publicly said that the whole black male suspect

0:33:16.001 --> 0:33:19.161
<v Speaker 2>and Fort Chaffee connection were just red herrings and had

0:33:19.161 --> 0:33:24.361
<v Speaker 2>been a complete waste of time. Also, sex traffickers don't

0:33:24.481 --> 0:33:29.001
<v Speaker 2>drive into full parking lots and kidnap random women. It's

0:33:29.001 --> 0:33:32.401
<v Speaker 2>sad to say this, but sex traffickers do not have

0:33:32.441 --> 0:33:36.521
<v Speaker 2>a problem finding young victims. They groom at risk young

0:33:36.561 --> 0:33:40.081
<v Speaker 2>teens and runaways, but they don't randomly kidnap people from

0:33:40.121 --> 0:33:43.961
<v Speaker 2>parking lots. Over the years, a number of armed shared

0:33:44.001 --> 0:33:48.681
<v Speaker 2>detectives on podcasts have mentioned possible suspects. The podcast True

0:33:48.721 --> 0:33:51.201
<v Speaker 2>Crime Garage talked to Lodonna a few years back about

0:33:51.241 --> 0:33:55.001
<v Speaker 2>a guy named Gary Hilton, aka the National Forest serial Killer.

0:33:55.961 --> 0:33:59.121
<v Speaker 2>But in my opinion, this doesn't make a ton of sense.

0:33:59.521 --> 0:34:02.161
<v Speaker 2>On the surface, there are a few similarities, but Gary

0:34:02.241 --> 0:34:06.121
<v Speaker 2>Hilton's mo was abducting women from remote areas. For example,

0:34:06.201 --> 0:34:08.921
<v Speaker 2>one victim's car was found abandoned in a field, another

0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:12.641
<v Speaker 2>was on a hike. Over the years, LaDonna has devoted

0:34:12.881 --> 0:34:16.240
<v Speaker 2>countless hours to researching what could have happened to Melissa Whitt.

0:34:17.201 --> 0:34:20.001
<v Speaker 2>A few years back, she was contacted by a woman

0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 2>who said years ago when the woman was twenty three

0:34:22.801 --> 0:34:26.321
<v Speaker 2>and living in the Pacific Northwest. This woman had been

0:34:26.401 --> 0:34:29.801
<v Speaker 2>in a fetish video and this was a very creepy story.

0:34:29.841 --> 0:34:33.721
<v Speaker 2>The woman said that this creepy director wanted a video

0:34:33.921 --> 0:34:36.520
<v Speaker 2>where the young woman was wearing a Mickey mouse Watch.

0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:39.200
<v Speaker 2>He wanted her to pretend that she was dead and

0:34:39.201 --> 0:34:42.720
<v Speaker 2>in a morgue. As a result of this, LaDonna did

0:34:42.721 --> 0:34:47.160
<v Speaker 2>a deep dive into some very disturbing internet forums. I've

0:34:47.161 --> 0:34:48.921
<v Speaker 2>been on a lot of those same forums, and there

0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:52.681
<v Speaker 2>are some definite violent creeps in there. But I don't

0:34:52.721 --> 0:34:55.721
<v Speaker 2>think that this direction will ultimately lead to Melissa's killer.

0:34:56.481 --> 0:34:59.000
<v Speaker 2>There are a lot of people who enjoyed dark fetishes

0:34:59.081 --> 0:35:03.000
<v Speaker 2>who never cross the line. I also don't think that

0:35:03.041 --> 0:35:06.520
<v Speaker 2>Melissa WIT's killer was a random stranger. First of all,

0:35:06.561 --> 0:35:09.241
<v Speaker 2>I find it hard to believe that a random stranger

0:35:09.361 --> 0:35:12.241
<v Speaker 2>would trawl through a packed parking lot to find a victim.

0:35:13.001 --> 0:35:15.841
<v Speaker 2>This wasn't two am in a car garage. This was

0:35:15.960 --> 0:35:20.081
<v Speaker 2>prime dinner time in the middle of the Ladies bowling League.

0:35:20.201 --> 0:35:23.201
<v Speaker 2>Over the years, some people have suggested the Mickey mouse

0:35:23.241 --> 0:35:26.921
<v Speaker 2>Watch might be some kind of important connection, like maybe

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.761
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Trotter and Melissa Witt were both targeted because they

0:35:29.801 --> 0:35:33.440
<v Speaker 2>wore Mickey Mouse watches. AY magazine did a story about

0:35:33.481 --> 0:35:36.561
<v Speaker 2>the case. They called it the Mickey Mouse Killer. I

0:35:36.601 --> 0:35:39.200
<v Speaker 2>get why people might focus on the watch, because both

0:35:39.241 --> 0:35:42.841
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Trotter and Melissa Wit wore that style of watch,

0:35:42.881 --> 0:35:45.641
<v Speaker 2>and they were missing when the bodies were found. But

0:35:45.721 --> 0:35:48.521
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, this is also just a coincidence because

0:35:49.001 --> 0:35:51.841
<v Speaker 2>that style of watch was everywhere in the eighties and nineties,

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:55.081
<v Speaker 2>lots of young women wore them. I just don't believe

0:35:55.121 --> 0:35:58.600
<v Speaker 2>that there was a serial killer targeting young women because

0:35:58.641 --> 0:36:01.961
<v Speaker 2>they wore Mickey Mouse watches. Now, I could, of course

0:36:02.081 --> 0:36:04.761
<v Speaker 2>be totally wrong, and if other evidence points in that direction,

0:36:05.361 --> 0:36:07.881
<v Speaker 2>I will change my mind. But I think that the

0:36:08.001 --> 0:36:11.761
<v Speaker 2>killer taking Melissa Whit's clothes was more of an attempt

0:36:11.801 --> 0:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>to not leave blood or saliva or anything else that

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:18.641
<v Speaker 2>could connect them to Melissa. J. C Ryder seems to

0:36:18.681 --> 0:36:22.241
<v Speaker 2>agree Melissa's killer knew her, they knew her routine, and

0:36:22.241 --> 0:36:24.321
<v Speaker 2>they were waiting for her in the parking lot that night.

0:36:25.241 --> 0:36:27.921
<v Speaker 2>But when I talked to Ldonna, she was focused on

0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:31.841
<v Speaker 2>a suspect much closer to home, someone she says, who

0:36:31.921 --> 0:36:36.121
<v Speaker 2>knew Melissa well, someone who contacted her early in the investigation.

0:36:37.241 --> 0:36:41.080
<v Speaker 6>So this particular guy, I guess he was the one

0:36:41.081 --> 0:36:43.481
<v Speaker 6>that's called me and kind of creepy called me for many.

0:36:43.281 --> 0:36:45.321
<v Speaker 5>Many years, and it started out with.

0:36:45.281 --> 0:36:49.401
<v Speaker 6>Him calling me weeping over Melissa, you know, wanting me

0:36:49.481 --> 0:36:52.241
<v Speaker 6>to go with him to the grave side, those kind

0:36:52.241 --> 0:36:52.600
<v Speaker 6>of things.

0:36:52.641 --> 0:36:55.321
<v Speaker 5>But it was definitely, yes, he's someone that knew Melissa,

0:36:55.440 --> 0:36:57.361
<v Speaker 5>and his name is definitely in that diary.

0:36:57.841 --> 0:37:00.721
<v Speaker 6>Because of that, and because he had been reaching out

0:37:00.721 --> 0:37:02.440
<v Speaker 6>to me and there was no possible way for me

0:37:02.521 --> 0:37:04.881
<v Speaker 6>to know that name. You know, it wasn't something that

0:37:04.881 --> 0:37:07.120
<v Speaker 6>I could have gone to law enforcement and just make up.

0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:10.081
<v Speaker 5>This was, you know, information that really just kind of

0:37:10.081 --> 0:37:10.921
<v Speaker 5>fell into my lap.

0:37:11.241 --> 0:37:14.241
<v Speaker 6>They realized how critical this piece could be because I

0:37:14.281 --> 0:37:17.161
<v Speaker 6>could literally gather some information for them and give it

0:37:17.201 --> 0:37:18.961
<v Speaker 6>to them as intel that they.

0:37:18.801 --> 0:37:21.480
<v Speaker 5>Were never going to have with him because he had

0:37:21.561 --> 0:37:22.161
<v Speaker 5>lawyered up.

0:37:22.761 --> 0:37:25.401
<v Speaker 6>Even though I wasn't acting as an agent of the

0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:28.401
<v Speaker 6>police or even as a private investigator at that point,

0:37:28.921 --> 0:37:32.480
<v Speaker 6>as a filmmaker and doing an investigative journalism piece part

0:37:32.481 --> 0:37:34.520
<v Speaker 6>of it, I was still able to go ahead and

0:37:34.721 --> 0:37:37.841
<v Speaker 6>talk with him. And reading that case file helped me

0:37:37.921 --> 0:37:40.121
<v Speaker 6>because I at least knew some of the statements he made,

0:37:40.201 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 6>and then I would know immediately if he was being

0:37:42.121 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 6>honest with me. And for the most part he was live,

0:37:45.841 --> 0:37:49.081
<v Speaker 6>which was really really interesting and intriguing to the case.

0:37:50.001 --> 0:37:53.881
<v Speaker 2>I believe something scared Melissa. She got into an argument

0:37:53.881 --> 0:37:56.641
<v Speaker 2>with her abductor, either because she said no to some

0:37:56.761 --> 0:38:00.721
<v Speaker 2>kind of sexual advance, or maybe because they were having

0:38:00.761 --> 0:38:03.081
<v Speaker 2>some kind of a fight, maybe even a lover's quarrel.

0:38:03.721 --> 0:38:07.881
<v Speaker 2>Maybe Melissa Witt was seeing someone secretly. It could be

0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:11.681
<v Speaker 2>someone who might have had a girlfriend or even a wife.

0:38:11.721 --> 0:38:13.041
<v Speaker 3>Then when Melissa.

0:38:12.641 --> 0:38:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Witt raised her voice and they started getting into a

0:38:15.561 --> 0:38:18.121
<v Speaker 2>more heated argument the one the ten year old boy witnessed,

0:38:18.481 --> 0:38:21.721
<v Speaker 2>her killer wanted her to be quiet, so they hit her,

0:38:22.361 --> 0:38:26.241
<v Speaker 2>then panicked and threw her into their vehicle. Maybe her

0:38:26.321 --> 0:38:30.041
<v Speaker 2>killer took her into the Ozark National Forest, sexually assaulted

0:38:30.081 --> 0:38:34.960
<v Speaker 2>her and strangled her. Or maybe they hit her, panicked,

0:38:35.081 --> 0:38:37.601
<v Speaker 2>threw her into the car, then went to dump her

0:38:37.601 --> 0:38:40.520
<v Speaker 2>in the forest. Maybe they thought she was dead, but

0:38:40.561 --> 0:38:43.480
<v Speaker 2>when they realized she was still alive, they knew they

0:38:43.481 --> 0:38:48.961
<v Speaker 2>had finish the job. In either scenario, I think Melissa

0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:52.641
<v Speaker 2>Whitten knew her killer that it was someone local, or

0:38:52.681 --> 0:38:54.161
<v Speaker 2>maybe more than one person.

0:38:55.440 --> 0:38:56.481
<v Speaker 5>What's the missing piece?

0:38:56.521 --> 0:38:58.201
<v Speaker 3>What can people do to help at this point?

0:38:59.321 --> 0:39:03.241
<v Speaker 5>I think that there's a couple of things. One is

0:39:03.321 --> 0:39:04.081
<v Speaker 5>that this.

0:39:04.001 --> 0:39:07.121
<v Speaker 6>Guy has had lots of problems with drugs and alcohol

0:39:07.161 --> 0:39:08.161
<v Speaker 6>over the years, and I.

0:39:08.121 --> 0:39:10.681
<v Speaker 5>Do believe that he's talked to different people in his life, and.

0:39:10.641 --> 0:39:14.121
<v Speaker 6>I think that those people are probably very fearful of coming.

0:39:13.841 --> 0:39:16.921
<v Speaker 5>Forward, and you know, we need those people to come

0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:18.521
<v Speaker 5>forward because I know they exist.

0:39:18.641 --> 0:39:20.921
<v Speaker 6>We also need any of the women that were connected

0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:25.881
<v Speaker 6>to him to come forward. I do believe that this

0:39:26.001 --> 0:39:29.640
<v Speaker 6>alibi can be negated he has. I believe that there's

0:39:29.681 --> 0:39:31.841
<v Speaker 6>a lot more there and a lot more violence that

0:39:31.921 --> 0:39:35.960
<v Speaker 6>got swept under the rug that he was never prosecuted for,

0:39:36.081 --> 0:39:37.321
<v Speaker 6>and we need those people.

0:39:37.081 --> 0:39:38.960
<v Speaker 5>To come forward.

0:39:40.081 --> 0:39:43.641
<v Speaker 2>Marianne Whitt passed away in twenty eleven without ever knowing

0:39:43.801 --> 0:39:46.761
<v Speaker 2>who killed her daughter. She was seventy five years old,

0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 2>and she was buried right next to Melissa. J c

0:39:50.201 --> 0:39:53.521
<v Speaker 2>Ryder has said the case has followed him over the years.

0:39:54.121 --> 0:39:57.080
<v Speaker 2>He said he's never forgotten about it. That's why, even

0:39:57.161 --> 0:40:01.121
<v Speaker 2>after retirement, he continues to work for justice and closure

0:40:01.161 --> 0:40:05.161
<v Speaker 2>for Melissa and her family. Over the years, Leadona Humphrey

0:40:05.241 --> 0:40:08.440
<v Speaker 2>has teamed up with j c Ryder. She's continued to

0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:11.440
<v Speaker 2>push forward on this case. She's seen the case file

0:40:11.601 --> 0:40:15.440
<v Speaker 2>and she's seen Melissa's diary. In her book, she writes that,

0:40:15.561 --> 0:40:18.241
<v Speaker 2>in her opinion, there are some other people who need

0:40:18.281 --> 0:40:19.000
<v Speaker 2>to be investigated.

0:40:19.001 --> 0:40:21.281
<v Speaker 3>Further, he's given an alibi.

0:40:21.561 --> 0:40:24.881
<v Speaker 8>He has had not had anybody come forward to help

0:40:24.960 --> 0:40:29.121
<v Speaker 8>to negate that alibi, and that's the piece that we

0:40:29.201 --> 0:40:32.801
<v Speaker 8>really need to crash. And I think that a lot

0:40:32.801 --> 0:40:34.281
<v Speaker 8>of people that are around.

0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:36.841
<v Speaker 6>This particular individual are very afraid of him. He's a

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:42.000
<v Speaker 6>very volatile, very violent person, and so it's stands to

0:40:42.001 --> 0:40:45.600
<v Speaker 6>reason that you know, people are afraid or that now

0:40:45.601 --> 0:40:49.321
<v Speaker 6>they're afraid that they've kept information to themselves for so

0:40:49.401 --> 0:40:51.241
<v Speaker 6>long that they're afraid to come forward.

0:40:51.321 --> 0:40:51.480
<v Speaker 7>Now.

0:40:52.161 --> 0:40:55.520
<v Speaker 6>I'm not hurting anybody except Melissa in my opinion, for

0:40:55.561 --> 0:40:57.440
<v Speaker 6>the quest to get justice from Melissa Witt.

0:40:57.761 --> 0:40:58.921
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they would really.

0:40:58.801 --> 0:41:01.201
<v Speaker 6>Just be a hero and would help take somebody off

0:41:01.241 --> 0:41:04.961
<v Speaker 6>the street. So I believe very well may do it again.

0:41:05.401 --> 0:41:10.321
<v Speaker 6>He is a very dangerous, violent man and it all

0:41:10.361 --> 0:41:11.081
<v Speaker 6>comes down to that.

0:41:19.521 --> 0:41:23.481
<v Speaker 2>Ldonna co founded a nonprofit organization called All the Lost Girls.

0:41:24.161 --> 0:41:27.921
<v Speaker 2>It's dedicated to finding justice for female strangulation cold cases

0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:31.761
<v Speaker 2>in the United States, and police say they are still

0:41:31.801 --> 0:41:35.721
<v Speaker 2>working on Melissa WIT's case. Captain Daniel Grubbs of the

0:41:35.761 --> 0:41:39.641
<v Speaker 2>Fort Smith Police Department talked to News five and in

0:41:39.681 --> 0:41:43.281
<v Speaker 2>that interview, Captain Grubbs said that they do have items

0:41:43.281 --> 0:41:46.881
<v Speaker 2>that they can test for DNA. I would love to

0:41:46.881 --> 0:41:50.000
<v Speaker 2>get more details about exactly what is in the case file.

0:41:50.881 --> 0:41:54.601
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if they could test familial DNA, or maybe

0:41:54.921 --> 0:41:57.321
<v Speaker 2>someone will be scrounging through in a state sale or

0:41:57.321 --> 0:42:00.841
<v Speaker 2>in a relative's old basement. Maybe they'll find that Mickey

0:42:00.841 --> 0:42:03.881
<v Speaker 2>mouse watch with a serial number that could match it

0:42:03.921 --> 0:42:07.160
<v Speaker 2>to Melissa Wit. In the past, when I've seen news

0:42:07.161 --> 0:42:11.080
<v Speaker 2>reports of updates in Melissa WIT's case, I've seen a

0:42:11.121 --> 0:42:14.960
<v Speaker 2>lot of descriptions of the police looking at known criminals

0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:19.801
<v Speaker 2>in the area, including local sex offenders. But after everything

0:42:20.001 --> 0:42:22.481
<v Speaker 2>that I've looked through on this case, I am convinced

0:42:22.521 --> 0:42:26.001
<v Speaker 2>that Melissa Witt knew her killer and that the answers

0:42:26.041 --> 0:42:29.401
<v Speaker 2>to who killed Melissa Witt will only be found by

0:42:29.401 --> 0:42:33.881
<v Speaker 2>taking a closer look into her life. Do you think

0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:36.441
<v Speaker 2>that this person is still in the area.

0:42:38.481 --> 0:42:39.721
<v Speaker 5>It's still an Archecias.

0:42:41.081 --> 0:42:44.281
<v Speaker 2>So if you were friends with Melissa Witt, please get

0:42:44.281 --> 0:42:54.721
<v Speaker 2>in touch. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.

0:42:54.801 --> 0:42:57.241
<v Speaker 2>Helen Gone is a production of School of Humans and

0:42:57.281 --> 0:43:01.121
<v Speaker 2>iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend

0:43:01.361 --> 0:43:05.401
<v Speaker 2>and produced by Gabby Watts. Music is by Ben so Lee.

0:43:05.681 --> 0:43:10.681
<v Speaker 2>Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Els Crowley.

0:43:10.761 --> 0:43:12.480
<v Speaker 2>If you have a case you'd like me and my

0:43:12.561 --> 0:43:15.200
<v Speaker 2>team to look into, you can reach out to us

0:43:15.361 --> 0:43:19.480
<v Speaker 2>at six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

0:43:20.161 --> 0:43:23.681
<v Speaker 2>That's six seven eight seven four four six' one four.

0:43:23.841 --> 0:43:31.921
<v Speaker 1>Five school Of humans