1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Gon Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness, invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,041 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,761 Speaker 2: Over the past five years making my true crime podcast, 13 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing 14 00:01:34,241 --> 00:01:37,601 Speaker 2: as a small town where murder never happens. I have 15 00:01:37,761 --> 00:01:41,001 Speaker 2: received hundreds of messages from people all around the country 16 00:01:41,401 --> 00:01:44,081 Speaker 2: asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, 17 00:01:44,401 --> 00:01:48,601 Speaker 2: their families, and their communities, and now they have a 18 00:01:48,601 --> 00:01:52,721 Speaker 2: new way to reach out. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is 19 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,441 Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line. If you have a case you'd 20 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,881 Speaker 2: like me and my team to look into, you can 21 00:01:58,921 --> 00:02:02,241 Speaker 2: reach out to us at six seven eight seven four four, 22 00:02:02,761 --> 00:02:06,441 Speaker 2: six one four or five. That's six seven eight seven 23 00:02:06,481 --> 00:02:13,321 Speaker 2: four four sixty one four or five. Thursday, December first, 24 00:02:13,441 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four started out as just a normal day 25 00:02:16,561 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: for Melissa missy Wit. Melissa was a nineteen year old 26 00:02:21,001 --> 00:02:23,201 Speaker 2: college student who still lived at home with her mom, 27 00:02:23,281 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: mary Anne Whitt, on a quiet street in a quiet 28 00:02:26,081 --> 00:02:30,361 Speaker 2: neighborhood in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Melissa was Marianne's only daughter, 29 00:02:30,481 --> 00:02:35,201 Speaker 2: and Melissa was her whole world. In interviews later, Marianne 30 00:02:35,201 --> 00:02:37,521 Speaker 2: talked about how she'd been almost forty years old when 31 00:02:37,561 --> 00:02:40,641 Speaker 2: Melissa was born. Melissa's dad, Johnny, was fifty four at 32 00:02:40,641 --> 00:02:44,361 Speaker 2: the time. Today that's more common, especially in places like 33 00:02:44,401 --> 00:02:45,881 Speaker 2: New York City, where I've spent a lot of my 34 00:02:45,881 --> 00:02:49,441 Speaker 2: adult life, but back then, in small town Arkansas, it 35 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,001 Speaker 2: was definitely not. Because they were so close. Mary Anne 36 00:02:54,081 --> 00:02:57,921 Speaker 2: was always very protective of Melissa. She always thought about safety. 37 00:02:58,961 --> 00:03:02,081 Speaker 2: Fort Smith had around seventy five thousand people living there 38 00:03:02,281 --> 00:03:05,961 Speaker 2: back in the early nineties with a military base. It 39 00:03:06,041 --> 00:03:09,281 Speaker 2: was much larger and more diverse than say a lot 40 00:03:09,281 --> 00:03:12,001 Speaker 2: of towns in the Ozarks, but it still had that 41 00:03:12,041 --> 00:03:15,521 Speaker 2: small town feel when Melissa was growing up. It was 42 00:03:15,561 --> 00:03:18,641 Speaker 2: the kind of place where kids rode their bikes around 43 00:03:18,641 --> 00:03:22,601 Speaker 2: town and entertained themselves after school. On that December morning 44 00:03:22,721 --> 00:03:25,761 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four, Melissa asked mary Anne if she 45 00:03:25,761 --> 00:03:29,081 Speaker 2: could borrow twenty dollars. Mary Anne was trying to teach 46 00:03:29,121 --> 00:03:33,281 Speaker 2: Melissa about smarter budgeting, so she said no. Melissa and 47 00:03:33,361 --> 00:03:35,761 Speaker 2: mary Anne actually got into a little argument over this, 48 00:03:36,281 --> 00:03:39,201 Speaker 2: and Melissa left the house that day without them resolving it. 49 00:03:40,321 --> 00:03:43,401 Speaker 2: After Melissa left, mary Anne felt bad about the argument, 50 00:03:43,961 --> 00:03:46,321 Speaker 2: so she left Melissa a note telling her to come 51 00:03:46,321 --> 00:03:49,041 Speaker 2: to Bowling World that night, where mary Anne was part 52 00:03:49,081 --> 00:03:53,041 Speaker 2: of a ladies bowling league. In the note, Marianne apologized 53 00:03:53,041 --> 00:03:55,041 Speaker 2: for getting upset with her and offered to buy her 54 00:03:55,041 --> 00:03:57,761 Speaker 2: a Hamburger when they saw each other that night. She 55 00:03:57,921 --> 00:04:02,241 Speaker 2: signed the note, love Mom. Melissa did go to meet 56 00:04:02,241 --> 00:04:05,201 Speaker 2: her mom that night at Bowling World, but she never 57 00:04:05,241 --> 00:04:11,761 Speaker 2: made it inside. Instead, Melissa disappeared, and Marianne never saw 58 00:04:11,801 --> 00:04:13,041 Speaker 2: her daughter alive again. 59 00:04:14,081 --> 00:04:14,721 Speaker 3: For days. 60 00:04:15,161 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: No one noticed that Melissa's brand new white nineteen ninety 61 00:04:18,801 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: five Mitsubishi Mirage was parked in a far corner of 62 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: that parking lot, and no one noticed the blood. 63 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,121 Speaker 4: Alan it's being lookout for a Melissa Whit me a 64 00:04:30,121 --> 00:04:33,961 Speaker 4: white female nineteen years of age five one point five 65 00:04:35,081 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 4: have hazel eyes, brownish blond hair. When I've seen Thursday 66 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 4: December First. 67 00:04:44,320 --> 00:05:26,401 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 68 00:05:32,601 --> 00:05:34,001 Speaker 5: Hi Catherine, this is LaDonna. 69 00:05:34,281 --> 00:05:37,081 Speaker 6: I just wanted to talk to you about the Melissa whitcase. 70 00:05:38,001 --> 00:05:41,201 Speaker 2: I was introduced to the Melissa whitcase through Loadonna Humphrey, 71 00:05:41,801 --> 00:05:46,281 Speaker 2: a private investigator and native Northwest Arkansas. We've been talking 72 00:05:46,321 --> 00:05:49,761 Speaker 2: about Melissa's case for a couple of years now. LaDonna 73 00:05:49,841 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: has devoted years of her life to investigating the case 74 00:05:53,041 --> 00:05:56,681 Speaker 2: and to getting justice from Melissa's family and friends. She's 75 00:05:56,721 --> 00:05:59,601 Speaker 2: also written two books about Melissa called The Girl I 76 00:05:59,641 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: Never Knew and Strangled, and made a documentary about the 77 00:06:03,321 --> 00:06:05,961 Speaker 2: case called Uneven Ground The Melissa Whit Story. 78 00:06:06,601 --> 00:06:07,481 Speaker 7: I have been a part of. 79 00:06:07,401 --> 00:06:11,121 Speaker 6: A nonprofit that I had founded called Let's Bring Them Home. 80 00:06:11,401 --> 00:06:16,601 Speaker 6: We offered support to families who had adult cases that 81 00:06:16,641 --> 00:06:19,801 Speaker 6: had gone missing, and we acted as a liaison between 82 00:06:19,841 --> 00:06:21,681 Speaker 6: the family and law enforcement. 83 00:06:21,361 --> 00:06:22,921 Speaker 5: And we wanted to film a documentary. 84 00:06:23,441 --> 00:06:27,001 Speaker 6: Our team got together and everyone kept bringing up the 85 00:06:27,041 --> 00:06:30,881 Speaker 6: Melissa Whit case, and I was really actually against it 86 00:06:30,921 --> 00:06:33,521 Speaker 6: in the beginning because obviously she's not a long term 87 00:06:33,601 --> 00:06:34,201 Speaker 6: missing case. 88 00:06:34,241 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 5: They found her body. 89 00:06:35,161 --> 00:06:39,121 Speaker 6: Six weeks after she disappeared, but the team out voted me, 90 00:06:39,321 --> 00:06:41,401 Speaker 6: sent me to Fort Smith, and really kind of the 91 00:06:41,441 --> 00:06:42,281 Speaker 6: rest is history. 92 00:06:42,441 --> 00:06:45,801 Speaker 5: Once I met with law Enforce and realized how passionate. 93 00:06:45,441 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 6: They were about the case, I knew that I needed 94 00:06:47,441 --> 00:06:52,001 Speaker 6: to get involved, and it was initially just for the documentary, 95 00:06:52,041 --> 00:06:54,561 Speaker 6: and then it really morphed into me being more involved 96 00:06:54,641 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 6: in the day to day things that were happening with 97 00:06:56,801 --> 00:06:57,281 Speaker 6: her case. 98 00:06:58,441 --> 00:07:01,361 Speaker 2: Loa Donna had a unique experience. She was able to 99 00:07:01,401 --> 00:07:03,801 Speaker 2: gain the trust of J. C Ryder, who was the 100 00:07:03,881 --> 00:07:08,641 Speaker 2: lead investigator on Melissa's case for years. Donna got access 101 00:07:08,641 --> 00:07:09,321 Speaker 2: to the case file. 102 00:07:10,561 --> 00:07:14,001 Speaker 6: I had brought some information to them in my initial 103 00:07:14,041 --> 00:07:17,841 Speaker 6: work with the documentary that started putting some pieces together 104 00:07:17,961 --> 00:07:22,601 Speaker 6: for them and kind of led them back to a 105 00:07:22,641 --> 00:07:26,041 Speaker 6: suspect that they'd had all along, okay, because he started 106 00:07:26,081 --> 00:07:26,761 Speaker 6: contacting me. 107 00:07:26,801 --> 00:07:29,041 Speaker 5: Because this was before I was a private investigator. I 108 00:07:29,081 --> 00:07:29,361 Speaker 5: was just. 109 00:07:29,881 --> 00:07:33,801 Speaker 6: Normal citizen filmmaker doing my thing, and I think that 110 00:07:33,881 --> 00:07:37,841 Speaker 6: they realized that this could be a perfect storm really 111 00:07:37,881 --> 00:07:40,321 Speaker 6: for the WIB case because it was bringing renewed interest. 112 00:07:40,401 --> 00:07:43,201 Speaker 6: But not only that, there was information that was coming 113 00:07:43,241 --> 00:07:47,201 Speaker 6: into the case that was valuable that I was turning. 114 00:07:46,921 --> 00:07:48,841 Speaker 5: Over to them that they had never gotten before. 115 00:07:49,081 --> 00:07:53,121 Speaker 6: And they made a decision then as a department that 116 00:07:53,481 --> 00:07:55,841 Speaker 6: they were going to allow me to see the case files. 117 00:07:55,841 --> 00:07:57,961 Speaker 5: There was a bunch of rules around it that couldn't 118 00:07:57,961 --> 00:07:59,881 Speaker 5: take any of it with me, you know, I. 119 00:07:59,801 --> 00:08:03,921 Speaker 6: Couldn't share the information in the film, some of it, 120 00:08:04,001 --> 00:08:05,881 Speaker 6: but they felt like I needed to know some of 121 00:08:05,881 --> 00:08:08,761 Speaker 6: the information basically because I was dealing with some of 122 00:08:08,801 --> 00:08:12,641 Speaker 6: the characters that they were looking at really closely in 123 00:08:12,681 --> 00:08:15,641 Speaker 6: Melissa's murder. But yeah, it was interesting because that doesn't 124 00:08:15,641 --> 00:08:19,161 Speaker 6: happen very often, and they allow me to stay to 125 00:08:19,241 --> 00:08:22,121 Speaker 6: continue to stay involved in the case because now it's 126 00:08:22,161 --> 00:08:25,721 Speaker 6: more of a partnership than anything else to you know. 127 00:08:25,721 --> 00:08:27,361 Speaker 5: Get justice from Melissa. 128 00:08:27,521 --> 00:08:29,601 Speaker 2: We're going to go through some of the theories in 129 00:08:29,641 --> 00:08:32,601 Speaker 2: the case, but first we have to go back to 130 00:08:32,641 --> 00:08:35,961 Speaker 2: the beginning, to the last twenty four hours of Melissa's 131 00:08:36,001 --> 00:08:40,361 Speaker 2: life to see if there's anything that we missed. Melissa 132 00:08:40,441 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: was pretty bubbly, friendly and kind. Her friend Tara, talked 133 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 2: to local news channel News five about how she became 134 00:08:47,641 --> 00:08:50,121 Speaker 2: fast friends with Melissa when they were around five or 135 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,121 Speaker 2: six years old. She said that they would ride their 136 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 2: bikes around town and go to local fast food restaurants 137 00:08:56,241 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: like KFC and Hardy's. They would buy candy cigarettes and 138 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:02,241 Speaker 2: pretend to smoke them. When they got to high school, 139 00:09:02,761 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: Tara said Melissa always retained that friendly innocence. They would 140 00:09:06,961 --> 00:09:10,001 Speaker 2: cruise around town on the weekends. Melissa would talk about 141 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: boys who she thought were cute, but for the most part, 142 00:09:13,241 --> 00:09:17,321 Speaker 2: Tara said, Melissa remained focused on school. Melissa was an 143 00:09:17,321 --> 00:09:20,401 Speaker 2: honor student and a cheerleader. She didn't have a regular 144 00:09:20,401 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: boyfriend in high school, but she did have lots of friends. 145 00:09:24,081 --> 00:09:28,361 Speaker 2: After graduation, Melissa enrolled at West Dark Community College, which 146 00:09:28,361 --> 00:09:30,761 Speaker 2: is now part of the University of Arkansas at Fort Smith. 147 00:09:31,641 --> 00:09:34,881 Speaker 2: Melissa also had a part time job at a dentist's office. 148 00:09:35,201 --> 00:09:39,561 Speaker 2: She was studying to be a dental assistant. On that Thursday, 149 00:09:39,761 --> 00:09:42,961 Speaker 2: after leaving home, Melissa had classes in the morning, then 150 00:09:43,041 --> 00:09:46,721 Speaker 2: she had lunch with a friend at the mall. That afternoon, 151 00:09:46,801 --> 00:09:49,321 Speaker 2: she went over to Family Dentistry. The dentist office where 152 00:09:49,361 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: she worked. The dentist, doctor Jennings, and the rest of 153 00:09:52,361 --> 00:09:56,161 Speaker 2: her colleagues said Melissa was her happy and normal, bubbly self. 154 00:09:57,121 --> 00:10:00,481 Speaker 2: Nothing seemed out of the ordinary that day. Melissa left 155 00:10:00,481 --> 00:10:04,201 Speaker 2: work a little after five pm. But then something out 156 00:10:04,201 --> 00:10:07,961 Speaker 2: of the ordinary did happen because when she got outside, 157 00:10:08,201 --> 00:10:11,841 Speaker 2: her car wouldn't start. Now a woman Melissa worked with 158 00:10:11,961 --> 00:10:15,161 Speaker 2: told five News that what happened was Melissa had left 159 00:10:15,161 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: her lights on for too long, so she needed to 160 00:10:17,961 --> 00:10:20,841 Speaker 2: get a jump. This coworker said they were looking for 161 00:10:20,881 --> 00:10:23,961 Speaker 2: someone with jumper cables. They went next door and found 162 00:10:23,961 --> 00:10:26,401 Speaker 2: a guy who worked at a business there. This was 163 00:10:26,441 --> 00:10:29,641 Speaker 2: the person l Donna called the Good Samaritan in her book, 164 00:10:30,401 --> 00:10:34,681 Speaker 2: The Good Samaritan helped Melissa jumpstarter car. The coworker told 165 00:10:34,681 --> 00:10:37,481 Speaker 2: the news station that she stayed to watch Melissa start 166 00:10:37,481 --> 00:10:40,361 Speaker 2: the jump process. Then when the cables were attached, she 167 00:10:40,401 --> 00:10:42,961 Speaker 2: told Melissa to just leave her car running for like 168 00:10:43,001 --> 00:10:46,361 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes to make sure the battery was charged. Then 169 00:10:46,441 --> 00:10:50,681 Speaker 2: the coworker left. Now, in her book and in multiple 170 00:10:50,721 --> 00:10:54,561 Speaker 2: media reports, we learned that the Good Samaritan was cleared 171 00:10:54,601 --> 00:10:58,681 Speaker 2: by police pretty early in the investigation. But as we 172 00:10:58,801 --> 00:11:02,881 Speaker 2: know from previous seasons of Helen Gone, we can't assume anything. 173 00:11:03,921 --> 00:11:05,841 Speaker 2: I asked the Donna about the Good Samaritan. 174 00:11:06,761 --> 00:11:09,441 Speaker 5: You know, obviously when someone goes missing, as you know, 175 00:11:09,801 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 5: they're going to look at the day's activities pretty closely. 176 00:11:12,721 --> 00:11:15,761 Speaker 6: And of course that was pretty suspicious to law enforcement 177 00:11:15,921 --> 00:11:19,361 Speaker 6: because to have her car not started, and they looked 178 00:11:19,361 --> 00:11:22,241 Speaker 6: at that really really closely. The Good Samaritan, who they 179 00:11:22,241 --> 00:11:25,201 Speaker 6: try not to name just to not disrupt. 180 00:11:24,721 --> 00:11:28,401 Speaker 7: His life, he worked nearby to the dental office, and 181 00:11:29,641 --> 00:11:32,121 Speaker 7: as it turns out, she had left her lights on 182 00:11:32,241 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 7: her car most of the day, starting from when she 183 00:11:34,961 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 7: had been at the mall to have lunch, and that's what. 184 00:11:37,641 --> 00:11:41,601 Speaker 5: Killed the battery. And so they looked at him so closely. 185 00:11:41,801 --> 00:11:45,281 Speaker 6: In fact, I think he was probably interviewed maybe half 186 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,961 Speaker 6: a dozen times, and he just. 187 00:11:48,441 --> 00:11:50,441 Speaker 5: Had no connection to what had happened to her. 188 00:11:50,921 --> 00:11:53,561 Speaker 6: It was one of those things that you know, he 189 00:11:53,721 --> 00:11:55,281 Speaker 6: was a good smart and he helped her, but it 190 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,921 Speaker 6: was almost like he was at the wrong place at 191 00:11:56,921 --> 00:11:57,481 Speaker 6: the wrong. 192 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,001 Speaker 5: Time because she went missing that day. But he was 193 00:12:00,041 --> 00:12:01,641 Speaker 5: completely cleared by law enforcement. 194 00:12:02,721 --> 00:12:06,601 Speaker 2: After getting her car started, Melissa drove home, which was 195 00:12:06,641 --> 00:12:09,561 Speaker 2: just a few minutes from the dental office. She left 196 00:12:09,601 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 2: work at five point fifty, so this would have put 197 00:12:11,681 --> 00:12:15,481 Speaker 2: her home a little after six Her dental scrubs were 198 00:12:15,481 --> 00:12:18,241 Speaker 2: found crumpled up on her bedroom floor, like she had 199 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,161 Speaker 2: taken them off to do a quick clothing change, and 200 00:12:21,241 --> 00:12:24,681 Speaker 2: her mom later told investigators that, based on the clothes 201 00:12:24,721 --> 00:12:28,401 Speaker 2: that were missing, Melissa changed into jeans, a white V 202 00:12:28,521 --> 00:12:32,321 Speaker 2: neck sweater, silver hoop, earrings with a wavy pattern on them, 203 00:12:32,441 --> 00:12:36,881 Speaker 2: and a Mickey Mouse wristwatch. Police figured out later that 204 00:12:37,001 --> 00:12:41,161 Speaker 2: Melissa must have seen her mother's note because Melissa then 205 00:12:41,241 --> 00:12:45,801 Speaker 2: headed out to Bowling world Sstigators estimated Melissa arrived at 206 00:12:45,801 --> 00:12:49,881 Speaker 2: Bowling World between six thirty and seven PM. Now, at 207 00:12:49,881 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: that time, the parking lot would have been pretty full. 208 00:12:52,841 --> 00:12:56,201 Speaker 2: The bowling league was popular by the time Melissa got there, 209 00:12:56,321 --> 00:12:59,641 Speaker 2: pretty much everyone would have been inside, which is part 210 00:12:59,641 --> 00:13:03,081 Speaker 2: of the reason why police later could not find many witnesses. 211 00:13:03,921 --> 00:13:08,441 Speaker 2: But Melissa never made it inside. Mary Anne, of course 212 00:13:08,521 --> 00:13:11,641 Speaker 2: noticed that Melissa never showed up at Bowling World, and 213 00:13:11,721 --> 00:13:14,121 Speaker 2: after she got home and saw Melissa's car was not 214 00:13:14,161 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: there at the house, she got worried. Mary Anne called 215 00:13:18,201 --> 00:13:22,521 Speaker 2: Melissa's friends, but no one had seen her. The next morning, 216 00:13:22,641 --> 00:13:26,121 Speaker 2: Friday morning, Melissa's friend Tara said that her mother walked 217 00:13:26,121 --> 00:13:28,361 Speaker 2: into her room and asked if she'd heard from Melissa. 218 00:13:29,401 --> 00:13:32,201 Speaker 2: Her mom said Maryanne had called the house looking for Melissa. 219 00:13:32,761 --> 00:13:35,321 Speaker 2: Tara said no, but she said they were supposed to 220 00:13:35,321 --> 00:13:38,001 Speaker 2: go out on that Friday night. She figured they would 221 00:13:38,041 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: catch up later. Then Tara went to class. They had 222 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,921 Speaker 2: a biology class together, and when Melissa didn't show up 223 00:13:44,921 --> 00:13:49,441 Speaker 2: in that biology class, Tara immediately suspected something bad had happened. 224 00:13:50,081 --> 00:13:54,681 Speaker 2: This was not like Melissa. Melissa was extremely responsible. That's 225 00:13:54,681 --> 00:13:58,241 Speaker 2: when Marianne went to the police. But then the first 226 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: officer to talk to mary Anne, in my opinion, made 227 00:14:00,961 --> 00:14:04,961 Speaker 2: a crucial and unfortunately a far too common error. We 228 00:14:05,001 --> 00:14:07,401 Speaker 2: see this over and over in this podcast and in 229 00:14:07,401 --> 00:14:11,241 Speaker 2: our investigations. Mary Anne was talking about what happened that morning, 230 00:14:11,361 --> 00:14:14,241 Speaker 2: and she mentioned that small argument she had gotten into 231 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,761 Speaker 2: with Melissa over the twenty dollars that apparently led the 232 00:14:17,841 --> 00:14:20,401 Speaker 2: officer to believe that Melissa could. 233 00:14:20,201 --> 00:14:20,921 Speaker 3: Have been a runaway. 234 00:14:21,721 --> 00:14:26,241 Speaker 2: Since Melissa was over eighteen and was an adult, of course, 235 00:14:26,321 --> 00:14:29,081 Speaker 2: she did have the right to disappear voluntarily, but mary 236 00:14:29,121 --> 00:14:32,441 Speaker 2: Anne and all Melissa's friends kept telling police there was 237 00:14:32,481 --> 00:14:34,921 Speaker 2: no way she would do that. This was not like Melissa. 238 00:14:35,241 --> 00:14:38,401 Speaker 2: This was completely out of character. She would not just disappear. 239 00:14:39,321 --> 00:14:43,201 Speaker 2: Because of this delay by police, crucial hours in the 240 00:14:43,241 --> 00:14:47,481 Speaker 2: beginning of the investigation were lost. Melissa's family did not 241 00:14:47,561 --> 00:14:50,001 Speaker 2: want to wait, so they got together with some of 242 00:14:50,041 --> 00:14:52,161 Speaker 2: her friends and other members of the community and they 243 00:14:52,201 --> 00:14:55,681 Speaker 2: started searching for her. They printed thousands of flyers with 244 00:14:55,721 --> 00:14:58,401 Speaker 2: Melissa's picture on them. They also put her picture on 245 00:14:58,441 --> 00:15:02,321 Speaker 2: billboards around town. Local news media took the story and 246 00:15:02,481 --> 00:15:05,401 Speaker 2: ran with it, and once that story hit local news, 247 00:15:05,721 --> 00:15:09,321 Speaker 2: a crucial tip came in. A Bowling World employee called 248 00:15:09,321 --> 00:15:11,721 Speaker 2: the police and told them that on the night Melissa 249 00:15:11,721 --> 00:15:14,961 Speaker 2: went missing, a construction worker and his family turned in 250 00:15:15,001 --> 00:15:17,601 Speaker 2: a set of keys they found in the parking lot. 251 00:15:17,801 --> 00:15:20,961 Speaker 2: This happened at around seven forty five pm, so this 252 00:15:21,001 --> 00:15:23,201 Speaker 2: would have been just a few minutes after police say 253 00:15:23,241 --> 00:15:27,081 Speaker 2: Melissa arrived at Bowling World. The key ring had Missy 254 00:15:27,121 --> 00:15:31,881 Speaker 2: written on it. The keys belonged to Melissa. Later forensic 255 00:15:31,921 --> 00:15:35,401 Speaker 2: testing would reveal they had tiny specks of blood on them. 256 00:15:35,921 --> 00:15:39,201 Speaker 2: At that point, police did suspect foul play. They turned 257 00:15:39,201 --> 00:15:42,041 Speaker 2: the case over to the Fort Smith Major Crimes Unit, 258 00:15:42,641 --> 00:15:45,161 Speaker 2: and that's when investig Gator J. C. Rider took over 259 00:15:45,201 --> 00:15:48,681 Speaker 2: the case. Now should mention here that J. C Ryder 260 00:15:48,961 --> 00:15:52,881 Speaker 2: has his own checkered history. Ledonna has worked with him 261 00:15:52,961 --> 00:15:56,521 Speaker 2: for years. She presents him as a competent, carrying investigator 262 00:15:56,521 --> 00:15:59,241 Speaker 2: who's been instrumental in getting the word out about Melissa 263 00:15:59,241 --> 00:16:03,361 Speaker 2: WIT's case and never giving up. But as you all know, 264 00:16:04,081 --> 00:16:07,321 Speaker 2: I don't take anything for granted, including the backgrounds of 265 00:16:07,361 --> 00:16:11,321 Speaker 2: the people investigating the case. The allegations against J. C 266 00:16:11,521 --> 00:16:14,201 Speaker 2: Rder go back to a man named Ron Fields. He 267 00:16:14,361 --> 00:16:16,921 Speaker 2: was the deputy prosecuting attorney in Fort Smith from the 268 00:16:17,001 --> 00:16:20,081 Speaker 2: late seventies until two thousand and five. Back in nineteen 269 00:16:20,121 --> 00:16:23,201 Speaker 2: ninety five, when J. C Ryder was police captain, the 270 00:16:23,281 --> 00:16:27,441 Speaker 2: FBI investigated claims that Ron Fields was dealing drugs and 271 00:16:27,561 --> 00:16:30,721 Speaker 2: operating basically a hit squad that some people compared to 272 00:16:30,721 --> 00:16:33,761 Speaker 2: the movie That Departed Inside the Fort Smith Police Department, 273 00:16:34,641 --> 00:16:38,961 Speaker 2: the FBI investigated allegations that Ron Fields ordered J. C 274 00:16:39,121 --> 00:16:42,561 Speaker 2: Ryder to kill a woman named Laurie Murchison and to 275 00:16:42,561 --> 00:16:45,081 Speaker 2: get rid of her body. We're actually going to do 276 00:16:45,161 --> 00:16:49,321 Speaker 2: an entirely separate episode about Lourie Murchison. It's way too 277 00:16:49,401 --> 00:16:52,921 Speaker 2: complex and comprehensive to cover here, but needless to say, 278 00:16:53,441 --> 00:16:58,041 Speaker 2: Ron Fields later became a suspect in Laurie's disappearance. J 279 00:16:58,281 --> 00:17:01,801 Speaker 2: c Ryder, through his attorneys, has always maintained that those 280 00:17:01,841 --> 00:17:06,481 Speaker 2: federal charges were completely ridiculous and not true. Jac's lawyer 281 00:17:06,521 --> 00:17:08,881 Speaker 2: at the time told the Arkansas Democrat Gazette that their 282 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,721 Speaker 2: quote absolutely nuts. The lawyer said the FBI basically went 283 00:17:13,761 --> 00:17:16,961 Speaker 2: in and intimidated and threatened people to give them information. 284 00:17:17,801 --> 00:17:20,321 Speaker 2: The lawyer said the whole thing was a witch hunt. 285 00:17:21,241 --> 00:17:24,161 Speaker 2: The police detective who led the investigation into Lourie's death 286 00:17:24,281 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: also back j c. 287 00:17:25,281 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 3: Rider. 288 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,561 Speaker 2: The detective said the evidence pointed to Lourie dying of 289 00:17:29,561 --> 00:17:33,001 Speaker 2: a drug overdose and that there was a suspect in 290 00:17:33,001 --> 00:17:35,881 Speaker 2: that case, someone who was imprisoned in Oklahoma, a place 291 00:17:35,921 --> 00:17:39,241 Speaker 2: where Lourie traveled often. But the detective said they just 292 00:17:39,241 --> 00:17:41,881 Speaker 2: didn't have enough evidence to charge that person in connection 293 00:17:41,921 --> 00:17:46,481 Speaker 2: with Laurie's death. Going back to Melissa with so now 294 00:17:46,481 --> 00:17:50,481 Speaker 2: it's December fourth, three days after Melissa disappeared, j c 295 00:17:50,681 --> 00:17:53,041 Speaker 2: Ryder was assigned to the case. He and his fellow 296 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,281 Speaker 2: detectives immediately searched the parking lot of Bowling World, and 297 00:17:57,361 --> 00:18:00,841 Speaker 2: they found Melissa's white car abandoned there in the northwest 298 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,761 Speaker 2: corner of the parking lot, so her car had been 299 00:18:04,801 --> 00:18:06,241 Speaker 2: sitting there for three days. 300 00:18:06,961 --> 00:18:07,121 Speaker 6: Now. 301 00:18:07,161 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 2: This seemed a little bit weird at first that no 302 00:18:09,401 --> 00:18:13,281 Speaker 2: one noticed that, but Melissa's mom hadn't seen it because 303 00:18:13,361 --> 00:18:15,641 Speaker 2: again it was in the outer part of the lot 304 00:18:15,921 --> 00:18:18,241 Speaker 2: when she came out and didn't see Melissa that night, 305 00:18:18,361 --> 00:18:21,481 Speaker 2: she just assumed that Melissa never came to Bowling World. 306 00:18:22,241 --> 00:18:25,761 Speaker 2: Officers searched around that car, and they found drops of blood. 307 00:18:26,561 --> 00:18:29,441 Speaker 2: Melissa's blood had never been tested, so they couldn't confirm 308 00:18:29,481 --> 00:18:31,961 Speaker 2: then that it was a match. But the drops of 309 00:18:31,961 --> 00:18:35,161 Speaker 2: blood led pretty much from Melissa's vehicle over to the 310 00:18:35,201 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 2: next row of cars. So the police theory was that 311 00:18:39,161 --> 00:18:43,201 Speaker 2: Melissa was attacked and thrown into someone else's vehicle, and 312 00:18:43,241 --> 00:18:45,641 Speaker 2: that the blood blood either came from her being hit, 313 00:18:46,041 --> 00:18:49,161 Speaker 2: probably with a blunt force object, or when her head 314 00:18:49,241 --> 00:18:53,641 Speaker 2: hit the parking lot pavement. Now police had what they 315 00:18:53,721 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 2: believed to be the primary crime scene, they started looking 316 00:18:58,681 --> 00:19:02,961 Speaker 2: for witnesses. Initially, there were reports that witnesses had seen 317 00:19:03,001 --> 00:19:06,401 Speaker 2: Melissa with someone they described as a black, six foot 318 00:19:06,441 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 2: two male. Rumors were flying that she had been involved 319 00:19:09,881 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 2: in drug deals or sex trafficking, mainly because at the 320 00:19:13,201 --> 00:19:15,681 Speaker 2: time there were a lot of people who dealt drugs, 321 00:19:15,881 --> 00:19:22,201 Speaker 2: especially methamphetamines, near Fort Chaffee, the military base, but that 322 00:19:22,361 --> 00:19:26,281 Speaker 2: sighting was later confirmed to be a totally erroneous mistake. 323 00:19:27,041 --> 00:19:30,241 Speaker 2: Police did eventually find someone who was a credible witness, 324 00:19:30,721 --> 00:19:33,121 Speaker 2: a ten year old boy who was actually the son 325 00:19:33,201 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 2: of one of mary Anne's friends. While his mom was 326 00:19:37,201 --> 00:19:39,321 Speaker 2: playing with mary Anne in the bowling league that night, 327 00:19:40,041 --> 00:19:41,681 Speaker 2: she sent him out to the car to get some 328 00:19:41,761 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: textbooks so he could start doing his homework. When the 329 00:19:44,881 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 2: boy came back in, he said that he saw a 330 00:19:47,641 --> 00:19:50,881 Speaker 2: man and a woman fighting in the parking lot. At 331 00:19:50,881 --> 00:19:53,041 Speaker 2: the time, his mom didn't think too much about it, 332 00:19:53,761 --> 00:19:59,761 Speaker 2: but police later believed that he witnessed Melissa with her abductor. Unfortunately, 333 00:20:00,241 --> 00:20:03,281 Speaker 2: the boy didn't see enough of the kidnapper's appearance to 334 00:20:03,281 --> 00:20:07,641 Speaker 2: make a full sketch. Another early missing poster said Melissa 335 00:20:07,641 --> 00:20:11,001 Speaker 2: had been spotted quote possibly in nineteen eighty one gray 336 00:20:11,121 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 2: Oldsmobile cutlass with a tall, white male with black, wavy 337 00:20:14,681 --> 00:20:18,041 Speaker 2: hair and an earring end quote. I saw this tip 338 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 2: on a missing poster from an old news report, and 339 00:20:20,961 --> 00:20:22,801 Speaker 2: I still don't know who reported it or where that 340 00:20:22,881 --> 00:20:26,801 Speaker 2: came from. As with so many investigations that get a 341 00:20:26,801 --> 00:20:30,041 Speaker 2: lot of press, thousands of tips were flooding in, so 342 00:20:30,161 --> 00:20:32,201 Speaker 2: now police had to figure out which ones were good 343 00:20:32,321 --> 00:20:36,041 Speaker 2: leads and which ones were dead ends. Everyone in town 344 00:20:36,121 --> 00:20:39,241 Speaker 2: had a theory about who could have killed Melissa. Was 345 00:20:39,281 --> 00:20:41,441 Speaker 2: it a drug deal gone bad? Was it a random 346 00:20:41,481 --> 00:20:44,281 Speaker 2: serial killer who came in off Interstate five while passing 347 00:20:44,321 --> 00:20:48,921 Speaker 2: through town, or was it someone she knew. Melissa's personal 348 00:20:48,961 --> 00:20:52,641 Speaker 2: life didn't seem to offer a lot of clues. At first, 349 00:20:52,881 --> 00:20:55,521 Speaker 2: she was well liked, She didn't have any enemies. She 350 00:20:55,561 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: also didn't have any turmoil in her personal relationship. No 351 00:20:59,281 --> 00:21:02,241 Speaker 2: fighting with boyfriends, or at least not ones that anyone 352 00:21:02,321 --> 00:21:06,681 Speaker 2: knew about. The holiday season passed mary Anne's first one 353 00:21:06,721 --> 00:21:07,441 Speaker 2: without her daughter. 354 00:21:08,601 --> 00:21:10,961 Speaker 3: No one had a clue what happened to Melissa. 355 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,801 Speaker 2: Almost six weeks later, on January thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, 356 00:21:16,441 --> 00:21:19,241 Speaker 2: two hunters were near Turner Bend in the Ozark National 357 00:21:19,281 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 2: Forest when they saw a nude body. Dental records proved 358 00:21:24,601 --> 00:21:30,081 Speaker 2: this was Melissa Wit. Melissa had been found. This was tragic, 359 00:21:30,761 --> 00:21:33,241 Speaker 2: but detectives hope now they would be able to gather 360 00:21:33,321 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 2: evidence from her body, hopefully evidence that would get them 361 00:21:36,121 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 2: closer to finding her killer. Melissa was naked, so all 362 00:21:40,681 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 2: of her clothing, shoes, and jewelry, including her other earring 363 00:21:45,201 --> 00:21:47,921 Speaker 2: and her Mickey Mouse watch with a brown band, were 364 00:21:47,961 --> 00:21:53,521 Speaker 2: all missing. Her autopsy revealed blunt forest head injuries, either 365 00:21:53,601 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: from an object she was struck with or possibly from 366 00:21:56,121 --> 00:22:00,001 Speaker 2: her head hitting the ground. Then Melissa's killer or killers 367 00:22:00,681 --> 00:22:03,321 Speaker 2: probably put her into a vehicle in the next row 368 00:22:03,321 --> 00:22:06,481 Speaker 2: of cars. Someone drove her to that area where her 369 00:22:06,521 --> 00:22:11,161 Speaker 2: body was found. Investigators believe that remote location is where 370 00:22:11,201 --> 00:22:15,321 Speaker 2: Melissa Whit died. It's located down a single lane dirt 371 00:22:15,401 --> 00:22:19,721 Speaker 2: road that's used for logging. The autopsy revealed that the 372 00:22:19,761 --> 00:22:24,641 Speaker 2: cause of death was exphyxiation by strangulation. When I spoke 373 00:22:24,721 --> 00:22:27,841 Speaker 2: to her, le Donna talked about how she retraced Melissa's 374 00:22:27,881 --> 00:22:30,881 Speaker 2: root and how horrifying it must have been for her 375 00:22:31,201 --> 00:22:34,321 Speaker 2: to be riding in that car with a head wound bleeding, 376 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,801 Speaker 2: knowing that something horrible was about to happen to her. 377 00:22:38,601 --> 00:22:39,201 Speaker 5: Love for sand. 378 00:22:39,201 --> 00:22:41,801 Speaker 6: They take me out to its remote site in the 379 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,801 Speaker 6: Ozark National Chorus, and I had a sense of dread. 380 00:22:45,881 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 6: The whole way there because it's it's just this, you know, 381 00:22:48,601 --> 00:22:52,001 Speaker 6: there's a lot of beauty to look at, but knowing 382 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,841 Speaker 6: how remote it was as we're you know, winding around 383 00:22:54,921 --> 00:22:57,201 Speaker 6: and seeing like there was nowhere for her to go, 384 00:22:57,921 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 6: nowhere for her to escape. 385 00:22:59,441 --> 00:23:02,361 Speaker 5: And when we parked the car and I got out, 386 00:23:02,481 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 5: one of the first things that j. C Ryder looked 387 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,921 Speaker 5: at me and said was, if you. 388 00:23:07,001 --> 00:23:10,401 Speaker 6: Screamed right now, Ladna, Hon'll bring nobody would hear you. 389 00:23:11,801 --> 00:23:18,801 Speaker 5: And I remember being just almost to the point of tears. 390 00:23:18,401 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 6: And I'm not like a crier, really very easy, but 391 00:23:22,121 --> 00:23:25,881 Speaker 6: realizing this nineteen year old girl was out there at 392 00:23:26,001 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 6: night was someone who had already attacked her in a 393 00:23:29,121 --> 00:23:29,681 Speaker 6: parking lot. 394 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,041 Speaker 5: She had to have known what was going to happen next. 395 00:23:32,601 --> 00:23:37,321 Speaker 6: The amount of fear that she had, and that part 396 00:23:37,321 --> 00:23:40,561 Speaker 6: of the case really broke me, especially seeing where he 397 00:23:40,641 --> 00:23:43,161 Speaker 6: left her, you know, eventually left her body like. 398 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:43,681 Speaker 5: She didn't matter. 399 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,281 Speaker 2: Investigators said they found pieces of leaves in Melissa's lungs 400 00:23:49,481 --> 00:23:51,761 Speaker 2: and grass and other vegetation that was native to the 401 00:23:51,761 --> 00:23:55,561 Speaker 2: Ozark National Forest in her windpipe. This led them to 402 00:23:55,601 --> 00:23:58,721 Speaker 2: believe that after Melissa was kidnapped from the Bowling World 403 00:23:58,761 --> 00:24:01,801 Speaker 2: parking lot. She was immediately driven to that location in 404 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:08,161 Speaker 2: the forest, then sexually assaulted and killed there. Because Melissa's 405 00:24:08,201 --> 00:24:10,761 Speaker 2: body was nude, investigators assumed that there had been a 406 00:24:10,761 --> 00:24:15,361 Speaker 2: sexual assault. According to the autopsy report, there was another 407 00:24:15,521 --> 00:24:20,521 Speaker 2: strange twist of the case. Melissa's body had been moved. First, 408 00:24:20,521 --> 00:24:22,601 Speaker 2: it was put behind a large rock that was kind 409 00:24:22,641 --> 00:24:25,521 Speaker 2: of shaped like a tombstone. The body was covered with 410 00:24:25,601 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 2: pine leaves and that's where it stayed for several weeks, 411 00:24:29,361 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 2: but then just a few days before the body was found, 412 00:24:32,881 --> 00:24:37,241 Speaker 2: someone moved it. Over the years, JC Riders offered up 413 00:24:37,241 --> 00:24:40,481 Speaker 2: a couple of theories about why he believes someone would 414 00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:43,961 Speaker 2: have moved Melissa's body. He said, either it's because as 415 00:24:44,681 --> 00:24:47,241 Speaker 2: the killer wanted credit for the kill, so they wanted 416 00:24:47,281 --> 00:24:48,641 Speaker 2: the body to be found so that it would be 417 00:24:48,681 --> 00:24:51,201 Speaker 2: written about and they would get some kind of celebrity status. 418 00:24:51,881 --> 00:24:55,241 Speaker 2: Or maybe the move was out of sympathy. Maybe it 419 00:24:55,281 --> 00:24:57,921 Speaker 2: was someone who knew Melissa and wanted to make sure 420 00:24:58,001 --> 00:25:00,041 Speaker 2: that she was found so that her friends and family 421 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,761 Speaker 2: would have some kind of closure. There's also a third possibility, 422 00:25:03,801 --> 00:25:06,801 Speaker 2: by the way, that someone who was not Melissa's killer 423 00:25:06,961 --> 00:25:10,801 Speaker 2: or involved in her murder, found the body and decided 424 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: to move it, but didn't want to admit that because 425 00:25:13,641 --> 00:25:17,281 Speaker 2: maybe they lived nearby or had history law enforcement and 426 00:25:17,761 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: were just scared to talk to police for some reason. 427 00:25:20,001 --> 00:25:22,561 Speaker 2: This theory was bolstered a little bit when police got 428 00:25:22,601 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 2: a mysterious phone call the day before the body was found. 429 00:25:26,881 --> 00:25:30,321 Speaker 2: In that call, it sounded like there were two people talking. 430 00:25:30,921 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 2: You could hear an older woman. Police later said, it 431 00:25:33,401 --> 00:25:36,281 Speaker 2: sounded like a grandmother and a grandson, and you can 432 00:25:36,321 --> 00:25:38,681 Speaker 2: hear the woman saying, tell them what you found, Tell 433 00:25:38,721 --> 00:25:39,521 Speaker 2: them what you found. 434 00:25:40,401 --> 00:25:42,081 Speaker 3: Then the caller hangs up. 435 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,801 Speaker 2: Police cannot def say that that caller was connected to 436 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,401 Speaker 2: Melissa whit, but the timing seems like a pretty big coincidence. 437 00:25:51,281 --> 00:25:54,361 Speaker 2: Police never found that caller, and back then they had 438 00:25:54,361 --> 00:25:55,761 Speaker 2: no way to trace them. 439 00:25:56,481 --> 00:25:57,641 Speaker 3: Le Donna has said. 440 00:25:57,401 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 2: By the way, that she does not agree with law 441 00:25:59,441 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 2: enforcements theory because the night Melissa was killed was a 442 00:26:03,441 --> 00:26:07,481 Speaker 2: really cold night. She thinks it's possible Melissa was sexually 443 00:26:07,481 --> 00:26:11,761 Speaker 2: assaulted somewhere else, maybe even kept somewhere for days or weeks, 444 00:26:12,441 --> 00:26:14,681 Speaker 2: and then was murdered near where the body was dumped. 445 00:26:15,681 --> 00:26:17,481 Speaker 2: When I look at these cases, I always go back 446 00:26:17,481 --> 00:26:20,001 Speaker 2: to the very beginning. I asked myself if it was 447 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,481 Speaker 2: possible that Bowling World was not the primary crime scene. 448 00:26:24,201 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: Maybe Melissa had left that parking lot with someone and 449 00:26:26,921 --> 00:26:29,201 Speaker 2: later they took the car back and parked it there. 450 00:26:29,241 --> 00:26:32,041 Speaker 2: After all, it wasn't found for three days. I have 451 00:26:32,241 --> 00:26:35,761 Speaker 2: seen this in other cases. Anyone who has basic knowledge 452 00:26:35,801 --> 00:26:38,721 Speaker 2: of crime scenes. No, if you can waste police time 453 00:26:39,121 --> 00:26:41,681 Speaker 2: by staging a false crime scene, you can throw them 454 00:26:41,721 --> 00:26:46,281 Speaker 2: off the trail for quite a while. But Melissa's keys 455 00:26:46,401 --> 00:26:48,281 Speaker 2: and the spots of blood made me think this is 456 00:26:48,361 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 2: much less likely because those keys were turned in at 457 00:26:51,641 --> 00:26:53,241 Speaker 2: around seven forty five pm. 458 00:26:53,921 --> 00:26:54,881 Speaker 3: But the fact that the. 459 00:26:54,881 --> 00:26:58,161 Speaker 2: Body was moved and some other little odd tidbits about 460 00:26:58,201 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 2: this case made me think it's definitely possible that the 461 00:27:01,921 --> 00:27:06,561 Speaker 2: crime scene was stage. Maybe sexual assault wasn't the motive. 462 00:27:07,041 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 2: Maybe someone was angry with Melissa and hit her and 463 00:27:10,001 --> 00:27:11,721 Speaker 2: then took her out to the dumb site and took 464 00:27:11,721 --> 00:27:15,081 Speaker 2: her clothes off, even to conceal evidence, or also maybe 465 00:27:15,121 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: to make it look like a random serial killer did it. 466 00:27:18,761 --> 00:27:21,281 Speaker 2: So let's go back to what could have happened that 467 00:27:21,401 --> 00:27:25,121 Speaker 2: night in the parking lot at Bowling World. Melissa got 468 00:27:25,121 --> 00:27:27,801 Speaker 2: to Bowling World. The parking lot was pretty full because 469 00:27:27,801 --> 00:27:31,761 Speaker 2: of the Ladies' leak. Almost everyone was inside. Melissa got 470 00:27:31,761 --> 00:27:35,041 Speaker 2: out of her car, and whatever happened had to happen 471 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,441 Speaker 2: really quickly because she had her keys in her hand. 472 00:27:38,561 --> 00:27:41,481 Speaker 2: Presumably she didn't take the time to lock her car 473 00:27:41,601 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 2: and put them into her purse, because her purse was missing, 474 00:27:44,161 --> 00:27:47,801 Speaker 2: but the keys were there. Melissa started arguing with someone. 475 00:27:48,281 --> 00:27:51,961 Speaker 2: The argument got heated. Maybe she got scared and went 476 00:27:52,001 --> 00:27:55,481 Speaker 2: to get back inside her car, but before she had 477 00:27:55,521 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: time to put the keys in the door and to 478 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,841 Speaker 2: get back in her car to safety, the killer hit 479 00:27:59,881 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 2: her over the head with a blunt fors object, grabbed 480 00:28:02,881 --> 00:28:05,961 Speaker 2: her and threw her into their vehicle. This would have 481 00:28:06,001 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: taken just a few seconds, just long enough for the 482 00:28:09,161 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: keys to slip out of her hands, and that would 483 00:28:11,121 --> 00:28:14,681 Speaker 2: also explain another piece of evidence they found there, Melissa's 484 00:28:14,681 --> 00:28:18,681 Speaker 2: crushed hair clip. The killer or killers grabbed Melissa's bag 485 00:28:18,761 --> 00:28:21,801 Speaker 2: and threw it in the vehicle with them, but probably 486 00:28:21,801 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: in their panic, they didn't notice those keys. Almost every 487 00:28:26,881 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 2: single theory that has been mentioned in connection with this case, 488 00:28:30,281 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: all of them have one thing in common. This was 489 00:28:32,161 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 2: not a planned attack. This was something probably an argument 490 00:28:35,921 --> 00:28:38,881 Speaker 2: that got out of control and escalated, which brings us 491 00:28:38,921 --> 00:28:41,801 Speaker 2: back to who would have known that Melissa was going 492 00:28:41,841 --> 00:28:45,321 Speaker 2: to be there that night. The years police have gotten 493 00:28:45,401 --> 00:28:48,201 Speaker 2: thousands of tips, there have been a few people of 494 00:28:48,241 --> 00:28:50,361 Speaker 2: interests who've come up over and over, and we're going 495 00:28:50,401 --> 00:28:54,281 Speaker 2: to go over those now. One person of interest who 496 00:28:54,561 --> 00:28:58,241 Speaker 2: was mentioned pretty early on was a guy named Larry Sweeringin. 497 00:28:58,921 --> 00:29:01,321 Speaker 2: He was convicted of the nineteen ninety nine murder of 498 00:29:01,361 --> 00:29:04,841 Speaker 2: a young woman named Melissa Trotter in Texas. Le Donna 499 00:29:04,881 --> 00:29:07,561 Speaker 2: wrote in her book there were actually a lot of similarities, 500 00:29:07,601 --> 00:29:10,601 Speaker 2: at least on the surface, between Melissa Trotter's case and 501 00:29:10,641 --> 00:29:13,681 Speaker 2: Melissa Whit's case, other than the obvious, which is they 502 00:29:13,721 --> 00:29:16,801 Speaker 2: had the same first name. Both Melissa Trotter and Melissa 503 00:29:16,841 --> 00:29:19,841 Speaker 2: Witt were nineteen years old, Both of them were strangled. 504 00:29:20,321 --> 00:29:23,441 Speaker 2: Both were found several weeks after they disappeared in national 505 00:29:23,441 --> 00:29:28,201 Speaker 2: forest areas. Melissa Trotter's body was found on January twenty second, 506 00:29:28,281 --> 00:29:31,761 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, in sam Houston National Forest in Texas. 507 00:29:32,641 --> 00:29:35,921 Speaker 2: Melissa Trotter had a knife wound on her neck, her 508 00:29:35,961 --> 00:29:38,161 Speaker 2: throat had been cut, and the pockets of her shorts 509 00:29:38,201 --> 00:29:42,041 Speaker 2: were torn, exposing her red underwear. She had been strangled 510 00:29:42,081 --> 00:29:45,561 Speaker 2: with a pair of panny hose. Larry Swaringen was twenty 511 00:29:45,601 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: seven years old, he was married, and he had a 512 00:29:48,041 --> 00:29:52,521 Speaker 2: long criminal history with allegations of sexual assault against multiple women. 513 00:29:53,841 --> 00:29:56,121 Speaker 2: It turned out that there were a lot of issues 514 00:29:56,161 --> 00:30:00,121 Speaker 2: with the case against Larry Swaringen. There were serious problems 515 00:30:00,121 --> 00:30:03,761 Speaker 2: with the physical evidence, though, actually the biggest issue in 516 00:30:03,801 --> 00:30:07,841 Speaker 2: the case against Larry Swaringen was the timing. The Houston 517 00:30:07,921 --> 00:30:12,521 Speaker 2: medical examiner who conducted the autopsy testified during Larry Swaringen's 518 00:30:12,601 --> 00:30:16,401 Speaker 2: trial that Melissa Trotter had been dead the entire time 519 00:30:16,441 --> 00:30:19,721 Speaker 2: that she was missing, so for almost three weeks. But 520 00:30:19,801 --> 00:30:23,521 Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven, the medical examiner recanted her testimony. 521 00:30:24,201 --> 00:30:27,241 Speaker 2: Now she said that Melissa Trotter had been dead for 522 00:30:27,281 --> 00:30:29,521 Speaker 2: no longer than two weeks when her body was found. 523 00:30:30,361 --> 00:30:33,121 Speaker 2: The problem with that is that three days after Melissa 524 00:30:33,161 --> 00:30:35,921 Speaker 2: went missing, the police picked him up on an outstanding warrant, 525 00:30:35,961 --> 00:30:37,841 Speaker 2: and he was in jail when her body was found. 526 00:30:38,561 --> 00:30:41,881 Speaker 2: I absolutely believe that if Larry Swaringen were charged with 527 00:30:41,921 --> 00:30:45,681 Speaker 2: that murder today, he would not be convicted. Not only 528 00:30:45,721 --> 00:30:48,321 Speaker 2: do I not believe he's a viable suspect in Melissa 529 00:30:48,361 --> 00:30:51,761 Speaker 2: Whits case. I think it's highly unlikely that he killed 530 00:30:51,801 --> 00:30:57,001 Speaker 2: Melissa Trotter. But even with all the questionable evidence, Larry's 531 00:30:57,001 --> 00:30:59,281 Speaker 2: Swaringen was convicted and he was sentenced to death. 532 00:31:00,361 --> 00:31:01,521 Speaker 3: After the Innocents. 533 00:31:01,121 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: Project took up the case, his execution was stayed five times, 534 00:31:05,081 --> 00:31:09,001 Speaker 2: but finally Larry Sweringen was executed by lethal injection in 535 00:31:09,041 --> 00:31:13,601 Speaker 2: two thousand. His last words and a final statement were 536 00:31:13,961 --> 00:31:15,161 Speaker 2: quote today. 537 00:31:15,321 --> 00:31:17,361 Speaker 3: The state of Texas murdered an innocent man. 538 00:31:19,881 --> 00:31:24,481 Speaker 2: While police were investigating Melissa Whits case, another possible person 539 00:31:24,481 --> 00:31:28,001 Speaker 2: of interest came up. His name is Travis Dale Crouch. 540 00:31:28,841 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: He was also known by his nicknames Tramp or Skull. 541 00:31:32,601 --> 00:31:35,881 Speaker 2: Travis is from Ozark and did time for the rape 542 00:31:35,921 --> 00:31:38,161 Speaker 2: of a twenty year old woman in Colorado in nineteen 543 00:31:38,201 --> 00:31:41,801 Speaker 2: ninety seven. Travis was panhandling in a mall parking lot. 544 00:31:42,001 --> 00:31:45,321 Speaker 2: He started chatting with his victim, then he attacked her 545 00:31:45,321 --> 00:31:48,161 Speaker 2: in her own car. He forced her to drive to 546 00:31:48,201 --> 00:31:51,641 Speaker 2: this remote location on a mountaintop, and over a period 547 00:31:51,681 --> 00:31:56,001 Speaker 2: of hours, he subjected her to a brutal sexual assault. Somehow, 548 00:31:56,001 --> 00:31:59,441 Speaker 2: his victim escaped. She was dazed, and she ran out 549 00:31:59,481 --> 00:32:04,081 Speaker 2: of there completely naked and got help. Law enforcements saw 550 00:32:04,241 --> 00:32:09,121 Speaker 2: similarities between this case and Melissa Whits case, and they 551 00:32:09,121 --> 00:32:12,481 Speaker 2: figured out that around the time Melissa disappeared, Travis was 552 00:32:12,721 --> 00:32:16,601 Speaker 2: in Arkansas. Actually, Travis was a carpenter at a church 553 00:32:16,641 --> 00:32:19,001 Speaker 2: camp a few miles from the remote area where Melissa's 554 00:32:19,001 --> 00:32:22,401 Speaker 2: body was found. He was seen driving as Chevrolet Caprice 555 00:32:22,561 --> 00:32:27,361 Speaker 2: near Bowling World around the time when Melissa disappeared. Travis 556 00:32:27,401 --> 00:32:29,561 Speaker 2: was also a deer hunter, so he would have known 557 00:32:29,641 --> 00:32:33,441 Speaker 2: the forest well. Police safe fibers in his car were 558 00:32:33,521 --> 00:32:36,441 Speaker 2: tested at one point, but then nothing more was ever 559 00:32:36,481 --> 00:32:40,041 Speaker 2: reported about the results of those tests. Travis was sentenced 560 00:32:40,081 --> 00:32:42,401 Speaker 2: to sixty four years in prison for the rape of 561 00:32:42,401 --> 00:32:45,361 Speaker 2: the twenty year old victim in Callraer Hto. He becomes 562 00:32:45,401 --> 00:32:50,601 Speaker 2: eligible for parole next year, twenty twenty four. According to 563 00:32:50,681 --> 00:32:54,441 Speaker 2: multiple reports, Travis has also always denied any involvement in 564 00:32:54,481 --> 00:32:58,161 Speaker 2: Melissa Whits murder, which in a way brings us back 565 00:32:58,201 --> 00:33:03,401 Speaker 2: to where we started. We can eliminate some possibilities. None 566 00:33:03,401 --> 00:33:06,721 Speaker 2: of the rumors about drugs or sex trafficking rings made sense. 567 00:33:07,401 --> 00:33:10,961 Speaker 2: Melissa never did drugs. No drugs were found in her system. 568 00:33:11,721 --> 00:33:15,881 Speaker 2: Police later publicly said that the whole black male suspect 569 00:33:16,001 --> 00:33:19,161 Speaker 2: and Fort Chaffee connection were just red herrings and had 570 00:33:19,161 --> 00:33:24,361 Speaker 2: been a complete waste of time. Also, sex traffickers don't 571 00:33:24,481 --> 00:33:29,001 Speaker 2: drive into full parking lots and kidnap random women. It's 572 00:33:29,001 --> 00:33:32,401 Speaker 2: sad to say this, but sex traffickers do not have 573 00:33:32,441 --> 00:33:36,521 Speaker 2: a problem finding young victims. They groom at risk young 574 00:33:36,561 --> 00:33:40,081 Speaker 2: teens and runaways, but they don't randomly kidnap people from 575 00:33:40,121 --> 00:33:43,961 Speaker 2: parking lots. Over the years, a number of armed shared 576 00:33:44,001 --> 00:33:48,681 Speaker 2: detectives on podcasts have mentioned possible suspects. The podcast True 577 00:33:48,721 --> 00:33:51,201 Speaker 2: Crime Garage talked to Lodonna a few years back about 578 00:33:51,241 --> 00:33:55,001 Speaker 2: a guy named Gary Hilton, aka the National Forest serial Killer. 579 00:33:55,961 --> 00:33:59,121 Speaker 2: But in my opinion, this doesn't make a ton of sense. 580 00:33:59,521 --> 00:34:02,161 Speaker 2: On the surface, there are a few similarities, but Gary 581 00:34:02,241 --> 00:34:06,121 Speaker 2: Hilton's mo was abducting women from remote areas. For example, 582 00:34:06,201 --> 00:34:08,921 Speaker 2: one victim's car was found abandoned in a field, another 583 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,641 Speaker 2: was on a hike. Over the years, LaDonna has devoted 584 00:34:12,881 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 2: countless hours to researching what could have happened to Melissa Whitt. 585 00:34:17,201 --> 00:34:20,001 Speaker 2: A few years back, she was contacted by a woman 586 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 2: who said years ago when the woman was twenty three 587 00:34:22,801 --> 00:34:26,321 Speaker 2: and living in the Pacific Northwest. This woman had been 588 00:34:26,401 --> 00:34:29,801 Speaker 2: in a fetish video and this was a very creepy story. 589 00:34:29,841 --> 00:34:33,721 Speaker 2: The woman said that this creepy director wanted a video 590 00:34:33,921 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: where the young woman was wearing a Mickey mouse Watch. 591 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 2: He wanted her to pretend that she was dead and 592 00:34:39,201 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 2: in a morgue. As a result of this, LaDonna did 593 00:34:42,721 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 2: a deep dive into some very disturbing internet forums. I've 594 00:34:47,161 --> 00:34:48,921 Speaker 2: been on a lot of those same forums, and there 595 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,681 Speaker 2: are some definite violent creeps in there. But I don't 596 00:34:52,721 --> 00:34:55,721 Speaker 2: think that this direction will ultimately lead to Melissa's killer. 597 00:34:56,481 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who enjoyed dark fetishes 598 00:34:59,081 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 2: who never cross the line. I also don't think that 599 00:35:03,041 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 2: Melissa WIT's killer was a random stranger. First of all, 600 00:35:06,561 --> 00:35:09,241 Speaker 2: I find it hard to believe that a random stranger 601 00:35:09,361 --> 00:35:12,241 Speaker 2: would trawl through a packed parking lot to find a victim. 602 00:35:13,001 --> 00:35:15,841 Speaker 2: This wasn't two am in a car garage. This was 603 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,081 Speaker 2: prime dinner time in the middle of the Ladies bowling League. 604 00:35:20,201 --> 00:35:23,201 Speaker 2: Over the years, some people have suggested the Mickey mouse 605 00:35:23,241 --> 00:35:26,921 Speaker 2: Watch might be some kind of important connection, like maybe 606 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,761 Speaker 2: Melissa Trotter and Melissa Witt were both targeted because they 607 00:35:29,801 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 2: wore Mickey Mouse watches. AY magazine did a story about 608 00:35:33,481 --> 00:35:36,561 Speaker 2: the case. They called it the Mickey Mouse Killer. I 609 00:35:36,601 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 2: get why people might focus on the watch, because both 610 00:35:39,241 --> 00:35:42,841 Speaker 2: Melissa Trotter and Melissa Wit wore that style of watch, 611 00:35:42,881 --> 00:35:45,641 Speaker 2: and they were missing when the bodies were found. But 612 00:35:45,721 --> 00:35:48,521 Speaker 2: in my opinion, this is also just a coincidence because 613 00:35:49,001 --> 00:35:51,841 Speaker 2: that style of watch was everywhere in the eighties and nineties, 614 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,081 Speaker 2: lots of young women wore them. I just don't believe 615 00:35:55,121 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 2: that there was a serial killer targeting young women because 616 00:35:58,641 --> 00:36:01,961 Speaker 2: they wore Mickey Mouse watches. Now, I could, of course 617 00:36:02,081 --> 00:36:04,761 Speaker 2: be totally wrong, and if other evidence points in that direction, 618 00:36:05,361 --> 00:36:07,881 Speaker 2: I will change my mind. But I think that the 619 00:36:08,001 --> 00:36:11,761 Speaker 2: killer taking Melissa Whit's clothes was more of an attempt 620 00:36:11,801 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 2: to not leave blood or saliva or anything else that 621 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,641 Speaker 2: could connect them to Melissa. J. C Ryder seems to 622 00:36:18,681 --> 00:36:22,241 Speaker 2: agree Melissa's killer knew her, they knew her routine, and 623 00:36:22,241 --> 00:36:24,321 Speaker 2: they were waiting for her in the parking lot that night. 624 00:36:25,241 --> 00:36:27,921 Speaker 2: But when I talked to Ldonna, she was focused on 625 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,841 Speaker 2: a suspect much closer to home, someone she says, who 626 00:36:31,921 --> 00:36:36,121 Speaker 2: knew Melissa well, someone who contacted her early in the investigation. 627 00:36:37,241 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 6: So this particular guy, I guess he was the one 628 00:36:41,081 --> 00:36:43,481 Speaker 6: that's called me and kind of creepy called me for many. 629 00:36:43,281 --> 00:36:45,321 Speaker 5: Many years, and it started out with. 630 00:36:45,281 --> 00:36:49,401 Speaker 6: Him calling me weeping over Melissa, you know, wanting me 631 00:36:49,481 --> 00:36:52,241 Speaker 6: to go with him to the grave side, those kind 632 00:36:52,241 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 6: of things. 633 00:36:52,641 --> 00:36:55,321 Speaker 5: But it was definitely, yes, he's someone that knew Melissa, 634 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,361 Speaker 5: and his name is definitely in that diary. 635 00:36:57,841 --> 00:37:00,721 Speaker 6: Because of that, and because he had been reaching out 636 00:37:00,721 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 6: to me and there was no possible way for me 637 00:37:02,521 --> 00:37:04,881 Speaker 6: to know that name. You know, it wasn't something that 638 00:37:04,881 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 6: I could have gone to law enforcement and just make up. 639 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,081 Speaker 5: This was, you know, information that really just kind of 640 00:37:10,081 --> 00:37:10,921 Speaker 5: fell into my lap. 641 00:37:11,241 --> 00:37:14,241 Speaker 6: They realized how critical this piece could be because I 642 00:37:14,281 --> 00:37:17,161 Speaker 6: could literally gather some information for them and give it 643 00:37:17,201 --> 00:37:18,961 Speaker 6: to them as intel that they. 644 00:37:18,801 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 5: Were never going to have with him because he had 645 00:37:21,561 --> 00:37:22,161 Speaker 5: lawyered up. 646 00:37:22,761 --> 00:37:25,401 Speaker 6: Even though I wasn't acting as an agent of the 647 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,401 Speaker 6: police or even as a private investigator at that point, 648 00:37:28,921 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 6: as a filmmaker and doing an investigative journalism piece part 649 00:37:32,481 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 6: of it, I was still able to go ahead and 650 00:37:34,721 --> 00:37:37,841 Speaker 6: talk with him. And reading that case file helped me 651 00:37:37,921 --> 00:37:40,121 Speaker 6: because I at least knew some of the statements he made, 652 00:37:40,201 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 6: and then I would know immediately if he was being 653 00:37:42,121 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 6: honest with me. And for the most part he was live, 654 00:37:45,841 --> 00:37:49,081 Speaker 6: which was really really interesting and intriguing to the case. 655 00:37:50,001 --> 00:37:53,881 Speaker 2: I believe something scared Melissa. She got into an argument 656 00:37:53,881 --> 00:37:56,641 Speaker 2: with her abductor, either because she said no to some 657 00:37:56,761 --> 00:38:00,721 Speaker 2: kind of sexual advance, or maybe because they were having 658 00:38:00,761 --> 00:38:03,081 Speaker 2: some kind of a fight, maybe even a lover's quarrel. 659 00:38:03,721 --> 00:38:07,881 Speaker 2: Maybe Melissa Witt was seeing someone secretly. It could be 660 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,681 Speaker 2: someone who might have had a girlfriend or even a wife. 661 00:38:11,721 --> 00:38:13,041 Speaker 3: Then when Melissa. 662 00:38:12,641 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 2: Witt raised her voice and they started getting into a 663 00:38:15,561 --> 00:38:18,121 Speaker 2: more heated argument the one the ten year old boy witnessed, 664 00:38:18,481 --> 00:38:21,721 Speaker 2: her killer wanted her to be quiet, so they hit her, 665 00:38:22,361 --> 00:38:26,241 Speaker 2: then panicked and threw her into their vehicle. Maybe her 666 00:38:26,321 --> 00:38:30,041 Speaker 2: killer took her into the Ozark National Forest, sexually assaulted 667 00:38:30,081 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 2: her and strangled her. Or maybe they hit her, panicked, 668 00:38:35,081 --> 00:38:37,601 Speaker 2: threw her into the car, then went to dump her 669 00:38:37,601 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 2: in the forest. Maybe they thought she was dead, but 670 00:38:40,561 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 2: when they realized she was still alive, they knew they 671 00:38:43,481 --> 00:38:48,961 Speaker 2: had finish the job. In either scenario, I think Melissa 672 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,641 Speaker 2: Whitten knew her killer that it was someone local, or 673 00:38:52,681 --> 00:38:54,161 Speaker 2: maybe more than one person. 674 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,481 Speaker 5: What's the missing piece? 675 00:38:56,521 --> 00:38:58,201 Speaker 3: What can people do to help at this point? 676 00:38:59,321 --> 00:39:03,241 Speaker 5: I think that there's a couple of things. One is 677 00:39:03,321 --> 00:39:04,081 Speaker 5: that this. 678 00:39:04,001 --> 00:39:07,121 Speaker 6: Guy has had lots of problems with drugs and alcohol 679 00:39:07,161 --> 00:39:08,161 Speaker 6: over the years, and I. 680 00:39:08,121 --> 00:39:10,681 Speaker 5: Do believe that he's talked to different people in his life, and. 681 00:39:10,641 --> 00:39:14,121 Speaker 6: I think that those people are probably very fearful of coming. 682 00:39:13,841 --> 00:39:16,921 Speaker 5: Forward, and you know, we need those people to come 683 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,521 Speaker 5: forward because I know they exist. 684 00:39:18,641 --> 00:39:20,921 Speaker 6: We also need any of the women that were connected 685 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,881 Speaker 6: to him to come forward. I do believe that this 686 00:39:26,001 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 6: alibi can be negated he has. I believe that there's 687 00:39:29,681 --> 00:39:31,841 Speaker 6: a lot more there and a lot more violence that 688 00:39:31,921 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 6: got swept under the rug that he was never prosecuted for, 689 00:39:36,081 --> 00:39:37,321 Speaker 6: and we need those people. 690 00:39:37,081 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 5: To come forward. 691 00:39:40,081 --> 00:39:43,641 Speaker 2: Marianne Whitt passed away in twenty eleven without ever knowing 692 00:39:43,801 --> 00:39:46,761 Speaker 2: who killed her daughter. She was seventy five years old, 693 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: and she was buried right next to Melissa. J c 694 00:39:50,201 --> 00:39:53,521 Speaker 2: Ryder has said the case has followed him over the years. 695 00:39:54,121 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: He said he's never forgotten about it. That's why, even 696 00:39:57,161 --> 00:40:01,121 Speaker 2: after retirement, he continues to work for justice and closure 697 00:40:01,161 --> 00:40:05,161 Speaker 2: for Melissa and her family. Over the years, Leadona Humphrey 698 00:40:05,241 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: has teamed up with j c Ryder. She's continued to 699 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 2: push forward on this case. She's seen the case file 700 00:40:11,601 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 2: and she's seen Melissa's diary. In her book, she writes that, 701 00:40:15,561 --> 00:40:18,241 Speaker 2: in her opinion, there are some other people who need 702 00:40:18,281 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: to be investigated. 703 00:40:19,001 --> 00:40:21,281 Speaker 3: Further, he's given an alibi. 704 00:40:21,561 --> 00:40:24,881 Speaker 8: He has had not had anybody come forward to help 705 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,121 Speaker 8: to negate that alibi, and that's the piece that we 706 00:40:29,201 --> 00:40:32,801 Speaker 8: really need to crash. And I think that a lot 707 00:40:32,801 --> 00:40:34,281 Speaker 8: of people that are around. 708 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,841 Speaker 6: This particular individual are very afraid of him. He's a 709 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 6: very volatile, very violent person, and so it's stands to 710 00:40:42,001 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 6: reason that you know, people are afraid or that now 711 00:40:45,601 --> 00:40:49,321 Speaker 6: they're afraid that they've kept information to themselves for so 712 00:40:49,401 --> 00:40:51,241 Speaker 6: long that they're afraid to come forward. 713 00:40:51,321 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 7: Now. 714 00:40:52,161 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 6: I'm not hurting anybody except Melissa in my opinion, for 715 00:40:55,561 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 6: the quest to get justice from Melissa Witt. 716 00:40:57,761 --> 00:40:58,921 Speaker 5: I mean, they would really. 717 00:40:58,801 --> 00:41:01,201 Speaker 6: Just be a hero and would help take somebody off 718 00:41:01,241 --> 00:41:04,961 Speaker 6: the street. So I believe very well may do it again. 719 00:41:05,401 --> 00:41:10,321 Speaker 6: He is a very dangerous, violent man and it all 720 00:41:10,361 --> 00:41:11,081 Speaker 6: comes down to that. 721 00:41:19,521 --> 00:41:23,481 Speaker 2: Ldonna co founded a nonprofit organization called All the Lost Girls. 722 00:41:24,161 --> 00:41:27,921 Speaker 2: It's dedicated to finding justice for female strangulation cold cases 723 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,761 Speaker 2: in the United States, and police say they are still 724 00:41:31,801 --> 00:41:35,721 Speaker 2: working on Melissa WIT's case. Captain Daniel Grubbs of the 725 00:41:35,761 --> 00:41:39,641 Speaker 2: Fort Smith Police Department talked to News five and in 726 00:41:39,681 --> 00:41:43,281 Speaker 2: that interview, Captain Grubbs said that they do have items 727 00:41:43,281 --> 00:41:46,881 Speaker 2: that they can test for DNA. I would love to 728 00:41:46,881 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 2: get more details about exactly what is in the case file. 729 00:41:50,881 --> 00:41:54,601 Speaker 2: I wonder if they could test familial DNA, or maybe 730 00:41:54,921 --> 00:41:57,321 Speaker 2: someone will be scrounging through in a state sale or 731 00:41:57,321 --> 00:42:00,841 Speaker 2: in a relative's old basement. Maybe they'll find that Mickey 732 00:42:00,841 --> 00:42:03,881 Speaker 2: mouse watch with a serial number that could match it 733 00:42:03,921 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 2: to Melissa Wit. In the past, when I've seen news 734 00:42:07,161 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 2: reports of updates in Melissa WIT's case, I've seen a 735 00:42:11,121 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 2: lot of descriptions of the police looking at known criminals 736 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,801 Speaker 2: in the area, including local sex offenders. But after everything 737 00:42:20,001 --> 00:42:22,481 Speaker 2: that I've looked through on this case, I am convinced 738 00:42:22,521 --> 00:42:26,001 Speaker 2: that Melissa Witt knew her killer and that the answers 739 00:42:26,041 --> 00:42:29,401 Speaker 2: to who killed Melissa Witt will only be found by 740 00:42:29,401 --> 00:42:33,881 Speaker 2: taking a closer look into her life. Do you think 741 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,441 Speaker 2: that this person is still in the area. 742 00:42:38,481 --> 00:42:39,721 Speaker 5: It's still an Archecias. 743 00:42:41,081 --> 00:42:44,281 Speaker 2: So if you were friends with Melissa Witt, please get 744 00:42:44,281 --> 00:42:54,721 Speaker 2: in touch. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 745 00:42:54,801 --> 00:42:57,241 Speaker 2: Helen Gone is a production of School of Humans and 746 00:42:57,281 --> 00:43:01,121 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend 747 00:43:01,361 --> 00:43:05,401 Speaker 2: and produced by Gabby Watts. Music is by Ben so Lee. 748 00:43:05,681 --> 00:43:10,681 Speaker 2: Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Els Crowley. 749 00:43:10,761 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 750 00:43:12,561 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 751 00:43:15,361 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 2: at six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 752 00:43:20,161 --> 00:43:23,681 Speaker 2: That's six seven eight seven four four six' one four. 753 00:43:23,841 --> 00:43:31,921 Speaker 1: Five school Of humans