WEBVTT - Business Goes To Chemistry Class 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.560 Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a Bloomberg Weekly 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.360 Markets podcast. I'm Sarah Ponzach, a reporter on the Cross 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.239 Asset team, and I'm Joel Weber, the editor of Bloomberg 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.120 Business Week, filling in for Mike Reagan and maybe trying 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.920 out first job. It's great to have you here. Mike 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.000 feels a bit threatened at the moment that Mike's off 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.160 for the week. But this week on the show, we're 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:36.960 going to do something a little bit different. Think of 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.280 it as a special edition podcast in honor of a 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.559 special edition Business Week magazine issue. This year marks the 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:49.080 one hundred and fiftie anniversary of the periodic Table of Elements, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.519 and the team we have joining today set out to 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.600 make the case for why it matters more than ever. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.520 We'll talk about the elements, commodities across the spectrum, and 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.000 mine for hence regarding where we are in the economic cycle. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.720 To the nerds, this when literally goes out to all 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.319 the nerds in the world. Um, we got really carried 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.320 away with this idea early in the year and we 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.800 decided that we wanted to go full nerd give it 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:16.680 one whole double issue. So it is a cover to 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.880 cover special issue. There's content for all eighteen elements in 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.360 the issue. The Nerds appreciate it, the Nerds rejoice, and 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.880 as always, will close out the episode with our tradition 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.160 the craziest thing I ever saw in markets this week. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.480 But we're also going to do that with the twist. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.600 But Joel, I think we should leave the listeners hanging 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.520 for now. Okay, but as always, remember we do have 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.480 our very own podcast hotline. That number is six four 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.600 six three to four three four nine zero. Feel free 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.800 to give us a call, ask us any questions, leave 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.880 us a message letting us know the craziest things that 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.040 you guys have seen in markets, and if you're lucky enough, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.200 we might even play your message on the podcast. I 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.160 can see Joel right here, who has his very own 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:02.040 podcast Trillions about et s. Eric Baltunas is pretty jealous. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.080 I'm definitely jealous that you guys have a hotline. I 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.720 also will say if anyone has amazing stories from chemistry 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.399 class in high school that relates to the periodic table, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:11.880 I want to know about the stuff that went down 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.600 in any chemistry class. But without further ado, I would 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.320 love to introduce our great guests this week. First we 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.880 have Bloomberg Business Weeks Jeremy Keane, who was really the 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.240 architect behind this whole issue. That's right. Sorry, I think 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.040 you could call me the chief nerd, if the chief 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.280 nerd chief nerd, and I definitely call you chief nerd. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.640 Joel has described you as a walking talking person the 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.000 periodic table full table. I did, yeah, no, I you know, 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.040 pick a number and I will have a story QUI 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.880 don't worry. Don't worry, we have a quiz in the 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.440 off thing. But also joining us over in London actually 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.560 is Eddie Vanderwalt of the Markets Live blog, who also 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.880 helped out with issues. So Eddie, thanks for joining us. Okay, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:53.560 hi guys, thank you very much for having me on. 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.160 Joel I figured it. I'll just start with you, even 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.679 though you are doubling as co host this week. Why 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.560 did you guys actually decide to dedicate not just one 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.800 single issue, but a double issue special edition of Business 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.720 Week to the periodic Table of elements. So one of 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:11.840 the things we try to do business Week is take something, 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.280 um that seems like I forgot about it. It It was 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.480 in chemistry class, and you can kind of revisit things 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.640 like that. And we try and do that through the 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.639 lens of business. And one of the things that we 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.280 know about when you work at Bloomberg is that you know, 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.760 we were just obsessed with markets. Commodities are a huge market, 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.840 and when you actually think about the periodic table of elements, 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:38.480 not with a chemistry class in mind, but a business one, effectively, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.080 we were talking about commodities. So we felt it was 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.400 a very creative way to take something that we don't 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:49.000 often talk about in Business Week, commodities, and actually basically 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.840 go full Nerd on it. And in doing that we 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.000 were able to like bring stories to life that I 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.240 don't think Business Week usually would touch. And I think 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.160 the magic of that was really came from Jeremy, who 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.000 leaned into the table, like I said, full table, and 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:09.240 then managed to find people and stories that make you 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.520 just reappreciate what it means to be a business story 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.520 and a business magazine or a business journalist for that matter. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.559 I will be the first to admit, especially on this show, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.640 we typically talk about stocks, we talk about rates, we 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.159 talk about FX. When we do talk about commodities, we 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.120 usually talk about oil or something of that matter. So 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.520 something that really stood out to me in the issue 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.040 was one section on elements that go boom and bust 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:39.440 and this really looks speaking um, But this is really 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.839 about metals, and it's an area that we don't typically 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.720 talk too much about. So Eddie, why don't you walk 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.359 me through the different metals that you guys looked at, 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.960 And is it true that these typically don't follow the 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.960 same economic cycles as you might imagine for the likes 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.880 of gold or silver that are seen as safe havens. Right, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.760 it's actually really interesting. We we looked at it. We 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.000 looked at a handful of specific examples, but but this 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.120 is really the story of most commodities as they come 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.920 and go in and out of fashion. Because you know, 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:13.960 it's it's really interesting when you look at the periodic 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:15.280 table and you look at you look at the whole 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.880 world around us, the vast quantity of materials and and 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.800 and objects that we use day today. There's only you know, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.880 a hundred odd elements out of which all of this 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.280 is made, and every once in a while, a new 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.159 use is discovered for for a given element. We looked 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:36.560 at palladium, platinum, rhodium, irridium. These are metals that are 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.719 used in small quantities by really big industries. You know, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.600 suddenly one day somebody realizes this stuff is useful for 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.160 something they've never thought of before. And the first thing 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.880 that happens usually when when that's the case, is people think, wow, 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:52.840 we haven't got enough of this stuff. The world only 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.360 produces seven tons, and suddenly it goes into a mobile 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.640 phone and we need you know, now we're gonna need 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.160 hundreds of tons. So the price shoots up. Then you 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.120 see you see this massive reaction. We we've got rhodium, 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.240 which I think has had a you know, something like 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.040 a six rally in the last couple of years because 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.760 it's used in the in the exhaust pipes of of 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.760 of cars, and as we want our cars to be cleaner, 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.680 they use more and more rhodium, is the is the theory. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.400 Then as the price goes up, then immediately people go 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.320 out and they're like, wow, we've got to you know, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.800 we used to throw this stuff away, but now we've 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:27.720 we've got to go out and explore and find more 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.000 of the stuff. And then you see the price very 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.360 quickly collapse because it's gone up. So you see these 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.320 kind of massive spikes in commodities in all of the 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.239 elements from time to time. But these ones, particularly because 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.240 they are used by large industries which aren't gonna, you know, 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.040 use less of it. People are going to buy cars 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.440 they use a tiny amount of palladium in the exhaust pipe. 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.200 Even if the price of the palladium goes up, they're 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.320 not going to buy less cars. So you you get 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.839 these spectacular cycles. But you see this repeating year in 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.480 year out, and then you get people who just kind 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.640 of specialize in in spotting those trends early and going 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.280 out there and and getting ahead of the curve. So, Eddie, 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.120 what are some of the magic qualities that these particular 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.000 metals have. So your platinus vir palladiums, they they're part 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:17.040 of the platinum group metals. They are precious metals. So 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.040 they are precious because they they they are noble metals. 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.800 They don't they don't rust and so on. What you 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.520 tend to see with them is with the platinum group 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.880 metals in particular, which include the iridium and rhodium and 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.800 a few others, they are useful as catalysts. So what 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.320 we use them for is in the exhaust of a car. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.320 We would we would normally admit toxic gases, but What 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.280 happens if you if you code part of your exhaust 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.720 with platinum or with palladium, is you can transform that 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.440 gas into a into another gas in a really quick way, 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:53.520 just you know, purely as it passes through this catalytic converter, 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.680 and you end up with instead of carbon monoxide and 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.560 Knox gases, you end up with carbon dioxide, which is 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.520 which is still harmful, but not not as toxic warm 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.400 in the world. You know, at least you're not maybe 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.119 killing people. You know, you're not getting giving people asthma 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.000 and so on. And they used in slightly different ways, 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.880 and as the price differential between the various metal shifts 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:18.920 will use more of one and you know less of 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:23.040 the other. But it does, it does create fairly spectacular 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.640 rellies and beautiful charts. Jeremy flash quiz, what's the atomic 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:34.360 number for rodium? Oh no, it's I knew it was 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.439 the mid forties. I couldn't pin it down. But actually, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.720 I mean, looking through all these different elements on the table, 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.960 when you think about the big industries that are out 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.160 there today, does anyone or do a couple stand out 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.440 as you as really being heavily in demand for the 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.160 industries of today or the industries of tomorrow, and the 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:58.760 elements themselves. Well, um, you know, certainly silicon remains awfully 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.960 popular for reason. And see you would expect computer chips 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:06.360 and and uh and they're um, you know, gold is 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.240 also not only used in jewelry, but it's important. It's 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.200 a component in phones. Um. You know, we talked about 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.079 how for the Tokyo Olympics that are coming up next year. 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.560 The story had no idea. Yeah, they're they're they're making 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.199 the gold medals, silver medals, bronze medals out of materials 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.839 recovered from phones. And part of the part of that 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.079 is because the Japanese just have a culture of actually 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.480 recycling stuff and trying to have second life for things. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.160 And so this was a huge government backed rally to 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.280 basically be like bring out your your old phones. Unbelievable, 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.520 and they scavenged metal from it. Right, Yeah, is awareness 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.240 and get to your metals. It's also revealed a little 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.120 secret about the gold medal itself, which is that it's 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.120 not actually like fully made of gold. It's like the 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.200 most minimal amount of gold possible. It's nine or something 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.360 and the rest is silver. Gold medal is mostly silver. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:17.760 W Eddie, I want to come back to you just 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.400 because I have to bring it back to markets in 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.760 a sense. I mean, this past week we did get 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.280 I s M manufacturing numbers in the US showing contraction 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.040 for the first time since And one quality of the 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.679 markets that we have been seeing lately is this unbelievable 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.600 rally in gold and in silver. I mean, when you 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.439 look at these medals right now that many market participants 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.559 do very much pay attention to. What are they telling 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.640 you about investor sentiment or the economic cycle. Oh, I'm 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.400 so glad you asked me. That is really my home turf. 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.920 Look gold. The interesting thing with gold is that it 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.959 is it is useful, Bob. We use a little bit 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.480 of industry. A little bit goes into your mobile phone, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.120 a little bit goes into your air bag in your car. 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.760 And the reason it does is it is the best 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.080 at doing what it does. But other metals can do 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.240 the same thing, they just do it cheaper. But you 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.240 don't want something cheap triggering your air bag in your car. 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.280 You want the thing that's reliable. So in those kind 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.280 of critical instances they use it. But at the right 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.079 price point, we would be using gold as a conductor 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.920 in almost everything, but because it's more expensive, we tend 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.719 to use copper. So the fact that there's always this 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.120 potential underlying demand for gold makes gold useful as an 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.960 investment and a store of value because I can buy 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.640 this stuff. I know, even if investment demand completely falls away, 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.880 I will always be able to find a buyer if 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.600 the price goes low enough. Right. But because it's so useful, 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:53.920 that opens up the door for it to be used 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:59.120 as this kind of squasi monetary as asset. But if 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.760 you think about all of the elements in the periodic table, 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.160 what they have in common is they are you know, 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.200 they are real. There are in on the you know, 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.160 on the planet that we live on. There's there's there's 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.600 finite quantities of them. We have to you know, expend 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.400 energy to get hold of them. So they are in 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.599 a sense immune from inflation. When people worry about inflation, 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:21.959 you could put some of your money in this kind 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.040 of real staff. And what people are worried about right 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:30.000 now with ultra relose monetary policy is you know that 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.200 potentially so we've got we've got low interest rates and 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.320 we've got high relatively high inflation. In fact, what we 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.640 have is is low real rates, and that's the perfect 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.160 environment for a metal like gold, for any of these 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.840 elements really. But what makes gold useful, more useful than 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.160 say lead to store your value in, is that gold 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.760 is more expensive, it has a higher value to density. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.280 So you can store loads of money in a little 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.600 bit of gold, and that's what made it useful as 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.000 a monetary asset over time. At the moment, what people 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.480 are worried about is they worried about low real rates 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.640 and that that going forward, monetary policy is going to 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.440 stay loose. And that's why you've got guys like Ray 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:15.280 Dalio and you know, these kind of really heavyweight investors, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.480 and they are and they just they're throwing man money 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.200 at it. We've seen e t f s, we've seen 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.720 solid inflows like I haven't seen in a few years, 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:24.760 and that's why prices are up. How much did you 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.600 guys actually think about or talk about and look into 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.640 how investors can participate in these types of markets because 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.600 typically you think, okay, you have the physical commodity of 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.640 futures your ETFs, or maybe you invest in a country 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.720 or a global economy that could benefit I mean, what 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.000 are the pathways, um? You know, in some cases. We looked, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.000 for example, at the hydrogen economy via Norway, where the 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.560 country has really um kind of backed it and um 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.480 there are certain companies that are involved that you know, 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.880 investors could certainly invest in. We also published something about 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.320 how to Guy that Eddie wrote along with a few 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.560 other authors, on how commodities traders do their job, especially 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.360 a certain brand of adventuresome one who will go out 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.840 to minds and see how small quantities of in this case, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.760 rhenium can be extracted from a mine in Chile. So 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.559 you know that was that was certainly part of it, 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:16.760 and we kind of we you know, we profiled some 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.000 smaller companies that are doing interesting things. We did a 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.360 feature on Assault company in Oregon that's privately held but 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.600 you know, could be an interesting play for someone. Um. 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.040 We looked at cold Brew nitro cold brew coffees and 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.800 how how small companies are doing that and some of 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.040 the chemistry of that. We looked at a company that's 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:43.160 doing radioisotope generation called north Star UM, which you know 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.440 that that's a process that they have the only market 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.080 on doing a medically necessary thing that the US government 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.080 has placed a priority on. So there's all sorts of 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.160 little tidbits like that, I think throughout the issue. One 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.640 of my other favorite little tidbits is an element that I, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.200 frankly I had never heard of, or if I had 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.360 heard of it, and chemistraateutually forgot about it, Uh, lutetium, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:06.000 which is an ingredient and a clock. There's an effort 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.800 to try and make the world's most accurate clock. And 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.840 if you, if you want to step forward a couple 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.160 of steps about that, because somebody else already has in 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.320 the finance world, no doubt, someone's already already there before you. 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.520 You think about the implications that has for finance, where 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:25.440 milliseconds would really really matter. And uh, one of the 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.080 hedge funds that seems to have some interest in in 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.800 sort of this space is Renaissance. Who's found us? But 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.560 the Lutetian clock, Jeremy, what's the significance of why lutetium 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.680 performs so well? There? Well? And the story is actually 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.720 about essentially a race among the elements. So you know, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.880 you can't exactly place a place of future is bet 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.480 on on you know which one you think will will 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.760 come out in front, But um, right now that can 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.120 mostly for the for the moment, they're being done out 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.600 of government agencies. But as you say, there are companies 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.680 with a vested interest particular ones, and the leading efforts 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.960 right now are one spot lower on the table. Attribum 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.000 is being done out of Colorado, and we looked at 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.400 one of the competing elements being investigated out of Singapore, 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.440 lutetium and but aluminum others are being used in the 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.520 ideas that you can measure the vibrations of these atoms, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.800 and the way that you measure the vibrations lets you 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:29.880 calculate things to a very precise um to nanoseconds essentially um, 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.960 and that has implications for GPS, it has implications for trading, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.320 for all these other things. And the it just depends 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.680 on you know, a particular atoms ability to insulate itself 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:46.160 from distractions essentially from temperature from um. But somebody bumping 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.960 a table in in the next room, Um, you bump 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.040 that off, your accuracy is gone. Well, it's extremely interesting. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.000 I guess I may even call it crazy. But this 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.760 time around for our craziest thing I ever saw on markets, 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.160 we're all going to go around to uh pretty quick 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.720 fire around on the craziest thing we actually think is 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.520 on the periodic table of elements. So Joel, why don't 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:09.480 why don't you kick us off? That was not the 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.639 question that I was prepared for. But I have I 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.560 have a story that actually brings me back to Eddie 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.720 because Eddie and I have had this ongoing email chain 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.280 for a couple of years relating to gold, which is 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.280 a little hobby of Eddie's as he as he mentioned earlier. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.840 So and as you know, Sarah, you've been a guest 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.400 on Trillions before. I have a little side hobby um 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.480 talking about e t f s on our podcast with 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.840 Eric Baltus All Trillions, Uh. In the process of learning 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:39.119 about gold ETFs, we learned that, you know, there's a 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.640 vault that basically stores the gold that is the underlying 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.040 value associated with the e t F And being a 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.200 journalist and when that primarily works in magazines, I always 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.600 try and put a photo hat on and be like, oh, 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.840 that'd be an amazing photo. I want to see golden vaults. 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.359 I would go so far as to say it's impossible. 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.159 So Eddie can probably attest to this, but at various 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.639 moments in time, we've found vaults of gold and I've 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.679 invited the people who are stewards have said gold to 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:11.840 put a bag over my head to like, let me 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.199 go in. I don't need to know where the vault is. 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:16.359 I don't need to see the door of the vault 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.040 or the combo on it. I just want to see 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.639 the golden the vault. Um. It's a standing offer. If 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:22.760 anybody has access to one of these vaults and would 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:24.000 like to let me do that, I would love to 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.720 see it. But to date I have seen no gold 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.000 in said vaults. We'll see if you have any luck 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.600 going forwards totally, Eddie, why don't you go next? So 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.280 I've got to say, I've got to say working on 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.280 this issue and then reading it when it was done 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.040 was one of the funnest things I've done in absolutely years, 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.760 and the reason being I thought I knew a lot 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.159 about you know, metals and about commodities in general, but 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.399 there's so many you know, niche metals that you that 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.600 you don't hear about and so on. But my favorite 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.360 by far was gallium. And the reason I chose gallium 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:59.479 is because gallium it is a solid room temperature, but 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.159 it's a quid at body temper. You know this was 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.160 going to be mine too. Store. Let's see, let's see 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:07.760 if I can top you there. Let's see, let's see 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:09.720 what you were going to bring to the table and galleon. 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.119 But it's not just that because because it changes, it 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.840 fluxes if you were to pick it up. People say 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.520 that in the you know, Chemists a few years back, 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.920 it made cutlery from it, and they would they would 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:23.879 use it to play tricks on one another, like I 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.320 don't know, like a Gary Larson cartoon, and they make it, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.359 they make a knife for a spoon. I took this 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.320 back to my to my guy Anthony Lippman, and I 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.480 talked to him about this. He actually stopped by the 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.240 other day and I talked about this, and he said, yeah, 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.639 but you know what people think, this is how Uri Geller, 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.240 you know, the magician, This is how he did He's 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:51.120 bending spoon thing. Yeah, I feel like inside the magician's 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.240 in a circle at this point. It'd be a huge 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.000 commitment to magic my view. When I thought of Galllet 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:57.520 and I feel like, it's like you're a superhero. You 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.200 can hold metal on your hands and you can make 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.080 it melts the me. How crazy is that? But Jeremyson's 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.800 Eddie stole my thunder. Anyways, why don't you give us here? Well, 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.040 I can. That actually reminds me of one that my 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.240 father in law told me about nitt and all um, 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.240 which is a nickel titanium blend that has shape memory, 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.639 so at a certain temperature, it will reconstitute itself as 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.600 say a coil um. And you know, it has very 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:23.160 specialized uses, but it's not that widely used, partly because 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:24.960 it's such a specialist thing to do. But it looks 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.719 really cool on YouTube. But that wasn't actually the one 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.000 that I was going to pick. I was gonna pick 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.200 a story about naming rights, which um, you know they 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.960 and that's what the element one of six Seaborgium um. 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:38.760 It's one of the synthetic elements, which we did a 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.600 big story on on how uh it's sort of became 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.679 inefficient to smash atoms together to create synthetic elements. But 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:48.320 there was a period in time when it was really 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.200 important to national pride during the Cold War. There was 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.560 a U S Lab at Berkeley led by Glenn Seaborg, 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:56.760 after whom this element is named, and they got really 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.679 good at it. They invented or they discovered more of 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.000 the new elements that have been added over the last 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.160 seventy years than anyone. But then a Russian lab got 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.439 in on the game, West German lab gun in on 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.280 the game, and there started to be sort of an 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.439 arms race to like get your own square on the 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.400 periodic table, and there was a lot of disputes over 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:16.960 who actually created you know, element one o four, who 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:20.560 created element one oh six and uh an international body 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.320 had to be brought in to resolve the dispute. They 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.840