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Speaker 1: Do you want to go to dinner like a dinner date. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I take all my friends on dinner dates.

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Speaker 2: Yes you do. You're a very romantic platonic friends.

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Speaker 1: I am. Let's go, let's talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Already.

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Speaker 1: Yo, I'm Theosa and I'm Mala. Today we're talking about

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Speaker 1: romantic and platonic love and treating your friends like lovers,

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Speaker 1: because why not.

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Speaker 2: This is a really sexy conversation. It really really is.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about decentering men, prioritizing female friendships and all

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Speaker 2: that good stuff.

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Speaker 1: To start, our producer Stephanie brought this quote from feminist

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Speaker 1: thinker writer Belle Hooks from her iconic book All About Love,

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Speaker 1: where she writes, friendship is the place in which great

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Speaker 1: majority of us have our first glimpse of redemptive love

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Speaker 1: and caring community. And I love this because if I

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Speaker 1: think about all of the restorative conversations I've had with

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Speaker 1: my friends versus past like romantic relationships, past lovers, past partners, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I've really been able to restore a friendship versus

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Speaker 1: a romantic love. You know, where you can go through

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Speaker 1: that rupture and then you can go through the repair,

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Speaker 1: and then you can still rebuild a friendship, you know,

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Speaker 1: And well, your exes are your exes, and that's it.

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Speaker 1: When you break up, that's it. And so I really

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Speaker 1: resonate with this this quote.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like breakups, at least the vast majority

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Speaker 2: of them from a romantic situation, means that you don't

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Speaker 2: want any contact anymore at all. Ever, Yeah, and then

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Speaker 2: usually if there is, that's a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: However, when friends have some type of a blow up

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Speaker 2: or a fight or an issue, the hope is that

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Speaker 2: they can come back together. Yeah, it's the exact opposite, actually,

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Speaker 2: Like there's this desire for the friendship to repair itself

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Speaker 2: because it's something I think sometimes even more pure than

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Speaker 2: like a romantic connection that you have with someone.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, it can really endure a lot. I think a

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Speaker 1: good friendship can endure more than even a family bond,

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Speaker 1: a family tie, or a romantic partner for that reason.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a good example is that sometimes

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Speaker 1: your friends are not rooting for you to get back

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Speaker 1: with your ex, but they are rooting for you to

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Speaker 1: repair a friendship. Not always right, but I do think

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Speaker 1: that that's a good example that sometimes we are rooting

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Speaker 1: for the friendship to come back to repair itself in

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Speaker 1: some way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's so interesting, like like we have friends

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Speaker 2: that we've known since we were really young, since middle

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Speaker 2: school and elementary school, and those friendships are so beautiful

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Speaker 2: because we were literally children, our whole personalities hadn't developed yet,

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Speaker 2: we still didn't really understand who we were in the world,

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Speaker 2: and yet we like connected with these other little souls

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Speaker 2: and just like it clicked. Yeah, usually like immediately.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I often think about this time when I met

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Speaker 1: my best friend and I shared this when I read

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Speaker 1: the speech for her wedding because I was the maid

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Speaker 1: of honor, and I remember we became friends instantly, just

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Speaker 1: like you said. It wasn't even we didn't even exchange words.

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Speaker 1: It was a look. She walked into the classroom late.

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Speaker 1: We were both the new girls. We didn't know that

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Speaker 1: we were both the new girls, and we just looked

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Speaker 1: at each other, locked eyes like a half little smile,

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Speaker 1: and that was it. Next thing, it's recess, and we

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Speaker 1: both just walked up to each other and that was it.

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Speaker 1: Like no words were even spoken. It was just an

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Speaker 1: instant eye contact and eye lock and like that's it.

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Speaker 1: And we have somehow maintained not somehow with lots of

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Speaker 1: work and intention. But I think that it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: the norm to keep your childhood best friend and have

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Speaker 1: them become like your adult best friend. But we were

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Speaker 1: able to stand the test of like going to different

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Speaker 1: high schools, going to different colleges, and then eventually like

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Speaker 1: moving back around the same time working together and now

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Speaker 1: literally working together at look at. So yeah, it's definitely

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Speaker 1: something that I cherish. It's one of the relationships I cherish, Like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: it stood a lot of tests.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes, at least in my experience with my

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Speaker 2: friends that I've known since kindergarten, Like we will go

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Speaker 2: long periods of time historically without seeing each other, but

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Speaker 2: once we're all back in town, we're reconnecting. We have

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Speaker 2: like our annual traditions, you know, like always getting together

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Speaker 2: for the Fourth of July, like if we can, people

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Speaker 2: have like left to go to school and such. But

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Speaker 2: I think it's so beautiful because you can't operate like

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Speaker 2: that with a romantic relationship, right, You can't go months

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Speaker 2: without seeing each other, yeah and still maintain the love,

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Speaker 2: right usually.

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Speaker 1: Even like I see this term now being used online

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Speaker 1: of like a long distance bestie. Yeah, and like we know,

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Speaker 1: long distance relationships are hard to maintain. They often don't

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Speaker 1: stand that test of distance. But a bestie, a best

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Speaker 1: friend on the other side of the country or the world, like,

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Speaker 1: is something we're rooting for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just pick up where you left off

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Speaker 2: when you when you finally do see each other again.

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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful thing friendship and hard to like, really,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, pin down and define. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: And I find even in adulthood, like there are times

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Speaker 2: when I'll meet someone and again we just like instantly click,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it's a vibe you know, and I

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Speaker 2: may not it's harder to, like, I don't know, develop

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Speaker 2: those friendships now I think into something like big and substantial.

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Speaker 2: But I see how that spark can still be lit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask you, like, I mean, we're

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Speaker 1: both talking about friendships that we have have had since childhood,

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Speaker 1: but like, what has been your experience making friends as

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Speaker 1: an adult?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I feel like I've made a lot of

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Speaker 2: friends through like our art community. Yeah, through Marijuanetta. I've

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Speaker 2: made friends in the cannabis space, and that has so

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Speaker 2: much to do with like having this shared interest. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, this like kind of like piece of the

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Speaker 2: lifestyle and then shared politics in that way. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: the whole vibe of Marijuanetta is like Latinus owners, so

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Speaker 2: you know you're gonna find cool, cool chicks in that community.

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Speaker 2: So I've found really cool friends in that community that

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Speaker 2: I'm still in touch with. And I haven't been smoking

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Speaker 2: quite as much as I used to because I've been

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Speaker 2: in school. But you know, and then I think, like

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Speaker 2: also doing stand up I've met a lot of like

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Speaker 2: I mean, I love I love laughs, like in my friendships,

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Speaker 2: and I think a lot of our friendships and a

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Speaker 2: lot of my friendships are based on like being hilarious

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Speaker 2: and like making each other laugh. It's like a big

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Speaker 2: piece of it, and it always has been. So like

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Speaker 2: meeting very cool women also in the stand up comedy

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Speaker 2: community has allowed me to make friends in that space

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Speaker 2: that I think I have a lot in common with.

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Speaker 2: And through the pot too, like all the events that

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Speaker 2: we've gone to over the years and the people we've

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Speaker 2: collaborated with, I consider a lot of those people friends.

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Speaker 2: So there's something about creativity and getting out in your

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Speaker 2: creative world where like you can meet kindred.

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Speaker 1: Spirits definitely, and.

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Speaker 2: That's how I've been able to make friends as an adult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen this conversation online, especially on TikTok. I

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Speaker 1: see women share like these lovely like gatherings they have

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Speaker 1: with their friends, and I'll see in the comments, like

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Speaker 1: women writing and I assume they're in their twenties, like

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Speaker 1: writing like oh, this is so nice, Like I don't

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Speaker 1: have a group of friends. Oh I wish I had

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Speaker 1: a group of friends, and like that is a recurring

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Speaker 1: thing that I've seen online when I see women share

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Speaker 1: like these beautiful gatherings or birthdays or even like women

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Speaker 1: posting like no one came to my birthday party. So sad,

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Speaker 1: you know, and so I but and I feel for them,

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Speaker 1: and I feel for that experience of not having like

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Speaker 1: a solid group of friends. I have not had that experience,

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Speaker 1: and I think because of being like in the creative

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Speaker 1: space and also be very open. Like you, if you

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Speaker 1: want to make friends, like you have to go to things.

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Speaker 1: You have to show up. Yeah, and that is sometimes

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Speaker 1: really hard to do, depending on work, your mental health,

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Speaker 1: social anxiety. There's so many reasons that people cannot or

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Speaker 1: may not want to show up, Like in physical spaces,

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Speaker 1: but I do think that that has lent itself to me,

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Speaker 1: like creating solid friend groups and even just like little

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Speaker 1: like not side groups, but like intra space. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: like I have my tennis homegirls, right, and they are

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Speaker 1: like women that like we very similar, became fast friends.

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Speaker 1: We all the three of us love animals. We're constantly

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Speaker 1: rescuing animals and being like who can take him? Who

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Speaker 1: can foster somebody? And so that was like a I

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Speaker 1: think for me, of a little friendship group that I

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Speaker 1: didn't expect because it was so interspace. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're going to play tennis and that's it. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, let's go get lunch. Oh, let's

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Speaker 1: go get coffee. Oh can you take this animal?

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Speaker 2: Like literally, can you please take this animal and foster

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Speaker 2: this animal? The number of new animals that have come

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Speaker 2: into your life in a very short period of time,

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Speaker 2: it's amazing. I don't know anyone else. You are an

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Speaker 2: animal sanctuary.

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Speaker 1: I am, and I would like to not be. But

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Speaker 1: it's like I think it might part. I think it

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Speaker 1: might be my calling. I'm like, is this my second act?

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Speaker 2: I see it? Oh my god. If you find a

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Speaker 2: huge plot of land somewhere beautiful. Yeah, and then you

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Speaker 2: just have like a beautiful sanctuary.

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Speaker 1: It might have to happen. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I love that.

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Speaker 1: I know. I know. Don't go anywhere, locomotives. We'll be

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Speaker 1: right back.

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Speaker 2: And we're back with more of our episode.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in speaking of buying a big plot of land,

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Speaker 1: like I would love to live with all my friends.

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Speaker 2: One day commune.

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Speaker 1: I have like a retirement idea in my mind. And

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Speaker 1: oh yes, it's like Mariitsa and her partner, You and

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Speaker 1: your partner, and it's like all of us and our partners,

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Speaker 1: and it's like we just live in this little commune,

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Speaker 1: in this little village, and we just all take care

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Speaker 1: of each other love. Because the reality is like I

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Speaker 1: might not have children, so I'm also thinking ahead in

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Speaker 1: that way of like like actually, like your romantic partner

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Speaker 1: cannot be your everything, neither can like your children. I

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Speaker 1: don't have children, but it's like as a child, I'm

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Speaker 1: like I cannot be my parents everything, like they need

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Speaker 1: their own lives too, And so I see that for myself.

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Speaker 1: It's like my romantic partner cannot be my everything. They

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Speaker 1: cannot be my retirement plan. No, like I need a

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Speaker 1: community beyond my thirties and forties, right, and that goes

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Speaker 1: into like growing old with a community and aging with

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Speaker 1: a community. And so that's obviously many years from now,

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Speaker 1: but it is something that I think about, like what

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Speaker 1: will retirement life look like for our generation and are

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Speaker 1: for us? You know, it's true.

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Speaker 2: I think I've been thinking a lot about this recently.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about communees before as a community, our little commune,

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Speaker 2: and my sister loves the idea too of a commune

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Speaker 2: and having a plot of land where we can all

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Speaker 2: gather and like each night of the week, a different person.

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Speaker 2: It can provide entertainment if they like an activity or

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Speaker 2: a snack whatever, you know, it could be very fun.

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Speaker 2: But as we get older, I am meeting and understanding,

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Speaker 2: you know, more and more older women who their husbands die.

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Speaker 2: And then now these women have all these decades of

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Speaker 2: life ahead of them because they're still young, you know,

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Speaker 2: then they're in their sixties or seventies, and understanding that

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Speaker 2: life moves so quickly and a whole lifetime can pass

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Speaker 2: by with a person and end in the blink of

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Speaker 2: an eye. Really, and then what do you do with yourself?

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Speaker 2: And how do you keep yourself company and how do

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Speaker 2: you surround yourself with love? And where are your friends?

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Speaker 2: And you know, you can you build a sense of

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Speaker 2: community for yourself, understanding that one day you're going to

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Speaker 2: have to be like on your own again. It's very morbid,

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Speaker 2: but it's just also very real.

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Speaker 1: It's real. Yeah, I mean, and I think that is

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Speaker 1: an important reason to treat your friendships like the real relationships.

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Speaker 1: They are, right, they're like platonic, but there can be

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Speaker 1: like a level of romancing, you know. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think about like all my friends who have brought

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Speaker 1: me flowers, you know, who have brought me gifts and

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Speaker 1: even just random not like a birthday. You brought me

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Speaker 1: like the cutest little skirt once, like a random gift.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I saw this and I thought of you.

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Speaker 2: I've yet to see you wear it, but yes they did.

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Speaker 1: I tried wearing it for one of our shots. Didn't.

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Speaker 2: No, it's really small.

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Speaker 1: It's really small, but give me of summer. I have

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Speaker 1: it in my closet because I'm trying, like I can

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Speaker 1: fit into this. I know I can.

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Speaker 2: I found it at this local thrift Latino owned. It's

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Speaker 2: like a white leather swede. It was pink, pink, bitch,

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Speaker 2: I forgot. It's a fuchsia swayed mini skirt with friends.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and the fringe goes on and off. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: you can give it to lives two looks and it's

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Speaker 1: a good fine. It is such a good fine. It's

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Speaker 1: it's still in my closet because I've been trying to

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Speaker 1: wear it. I think when you gifted it to me,

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Speaker 1: it did fit, and I was like, I'm saving this,

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Speaker 1: which is stupid. Don't save things because look now it

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Speaker 1: doesn't fit. So I'm like, but once I get back

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Speaker 1: into it, I will wear the f out of it.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited. Yes, I'm so exciting.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, But I do think like there's there's a

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Speaker 1: level going back to the initial like convo or point

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Speaker 1: about romancing your friends, Like I think about like all

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Speaker 1: the women in my life who have like romance to

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Speaker 1: me or I've romanced right where it's like we go

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Speaker 1: we go out to the longest dinners. Oh sure, yes,

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Speaker 1: we go out to long dinners. We're ordering the wine,

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Speaker 1: we're ordering the champagne, We're having decadent meals. We buy

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Speaker 1: each other presence. We like carve out space in our

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Speaker 1: lives for each other, and I just don't see that

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Speaker 1: men do that for each other for each other. I

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Speaker 1: really don't. Even with the men the very few straight

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Speaker 1: men that I know, I would say for a queer

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Speaker 1: men is very different. But for those few straight men

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Speaker 1: that I know, I don't see them carving out time

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Speaker 1: like that for their friendships.

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Speaker 2: No, my dad is always like, ah, somebody's birthday every day, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, like birthdays are not important, but he doesn't

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Speaker 2: celebrate his friend's birthday because everybody has birthday all the time.

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Speaker 2: It's constantly birthdays, like, and I feel like there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of men like that. They just don't do birthdays. Yes,

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Speaker 2: they just don't acknowledge they not their own, not their bestie,

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Speaker 2: not their parents.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like you have to really convince them that birthdays matter.

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Speaker 1: Birthdays do matter. And I've always loved a birthday. But

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Speaker 1: I think as I've gotten older, right, as we keep

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Speaker 1: saying like I really love a birthday, and I love

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Speaker 1: my parents' birthdays, I'm like, I'm so happy that you're here, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so grateful we get to spend another year celebrating

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Speaker 1: your birthday. And I do think that, like birthdays are

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Speaker 1: a really good reason to celebrate. Oh yeah, but there's

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Speaker 1: also just like celebrating, like just because you know.

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Speaker 2: Because we love reason to celebrate. We do like we

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Speaker 2: should celebrate, you know, we just whatever it was, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: This is our two hundred and fortieth episode celebrating in

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Speaker 1: my book.

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Speaker 2: We need a glass of champagne.

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Speaker 1: Yes we do.

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Speaker 2: We launched our courses. We need to celebrate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do. Yes, we actually do need to celebrate.

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Speaker 1: We launched our courses.

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Speaker 2: We launched season ten, We need to celebrate.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that, especially as women our age,

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Speaker 1: who maybe are living our lives differently than the generation

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Speaker 1: before us, like even more reason to celebrate the quote

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Speaker 1: smaller things or the non like traditional big things that

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Speaker 1: we expect to be celebrated for as women being marriage

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Speaker 1: and children, But like what is that in between or

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Speaker 1: even not in between if that doesn't happen, what is

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Speaker 1: it that we're celebrating you for? And so I think

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Speaker 1: that that's also a really important thing to carry in

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Speaker 1: your friendships, is like how can I celebrate you today?

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Speaker 1: Or this you did this really great thing at work,

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Speaker 1: you got promoted, Yeah, like you got a dog, let's huge,

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Speaker 1: let's celebrate, Let's have a cake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't wait until like your friend gets married to

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Speaker 2: throw them a big party. Yeah, there's many other reasons

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Speaker 2: outside of matrimony.

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Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, locomotives.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back, and we're back with more of

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Speaker 2: our episode.

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Speaker 1: And I think, I mean, I think there were a

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Speaker 1: little bit past this maybe thing that I think women

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Speaker 1: can do or just people can do, but like getting

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Speaker 1: into relationships and like forgetting your friends. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, has that ever been a thing for you,

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Speaker 1: like maybe earlier in your life, like in your twenties or.

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Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I've been pretty good about

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Speaker 2: trying to at least like if I'm going somewhere with

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Speaker 2: my partner, like or there's an event like inviting my friends,

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Speaker 2: or like do you also want to come? Or there's

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Speaker 2: another ticket, or you know, do we want to do

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Speaker 2: this together? And my partner is very social and like

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Speaker 2: wants to meet everybody and hang out, and so I

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Speaker 2: think we've been trying to as like much as we've

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Speaker 2: been so like in our bubble and so into each other,

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Speaker 2: like just very like in it, you know. Uh he

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Speaker 2: really wants to like participate in attend when the opportunity allows.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's what right now, what I've been

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Speaker 2: trying to do is like are there places where we

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Speaker 2: can bring it together?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel that way too. I Mean,

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Speaker 1: my partner is like he I think he has like

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Speaker 1: a lot of like home body tendencies and that is

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Speaker 1: his true form, but he also loves to be social

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Speaker 1: and he's always like who are we inviting? Who's going?

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Speaker 1: And he's like should we do a group trip? And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, let's do a group trip. And even

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Speaker 1: like my homegirl, who I invited to come to Mexico City,

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Speaker 1: I was like, so we might like want to go

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Speaker 1: somewhere else after, like to another city. Would you want

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Speaker 1: to come with us? And she goes, well, isn't he

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Speaker 1: going to want to be alone with you? And I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, we're together all the time. Like a

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Speaker 1: group trip is fine, you know, fine, it's fun, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that there's I feel really lucky

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Speaker 1: that I are not lucky because this is my choice,

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Speaker 1: but I feel really grateful that I'm in a relationship

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Speaker 1: with someone that values not only alone time but friend time,

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Speaker 1: Like he's not trying to come to dinner with the girls.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes he is sometimes happen sometimes he's one of the girls.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes he's one of the girls.

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Speaker 2: He really is.

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Speaker 1: He's the group husband, Yes he is. He buys the

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Speaker 1: drinks for everyone, he picks up the tab.

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Speaker 2: But you know, you ask the important questions.

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Speaker 1: He does.

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Speaker 2: He does, and then we're like Fernando, yeah, We're.

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Speaker 1: Like can you not right now? But like there's he's

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Speaker 1: definitely not trying to tag along for like every dinner

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Speaker 1: or every like gathering. It's like, okay, yeah, you go

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Speaker 1: do your thing, have your friend time. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: have my alone time while you have your friend time.

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Speaker 2: There's got to be boundaries, there's got to be limits,

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Speaker 2: and like sometimes like the man needs to know like

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Speaker 2: when to not invite himself yes or asked to be invited.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And sometimes he'll even I'll be like, oh, we're

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Speaker 1: going to go have dinner and he'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: is you know money, says partner going, And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: he's not going. Oh okay, you guys go have it

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Speaker 1: be a girl thing. Yeah no, And so it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's it can be really easy to get

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Speaker 1: stuck in that like romance bubble of like my partner

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Speaker 1: is my everything and I'm only going to hang out

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Speaker 1: with them, and then you like look up and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, my friends are they right there? And

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Speaker 1: so for me, I think I've tried my best to

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Speaker 1: like always maintain a balance of the friendships and prioritizing

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Speaker 1: those in addition to like the romantic relationships.

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Speaker 2: It's important. I think you're doing great. Thanks girl, you too,

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. We're doing our best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, yeah, just like prioritizing or giving

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Speaker 1: the l of the the platonic relationship, the friendship that

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Speaker 1: it's like just as important as the romantic ones, I

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Speaker 1: think is my takeaway from this conversation.

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Speaker 2: I agree completely. So you heard it here. Love your friends,

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Speaker 2: they'll love you back.

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Speaker 1: Love your friends, they'll love you back. Date your friends,

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Speaker 1: write your friend a love letter, take your friend to dinner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. You know it's not only your parents who can

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Speaker 2: teach you like what love looks like. Yeah, your friends

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Speaker 2: you can show each other what love looks like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that definitely goes back to the

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Speaker 1: Bell Hooks quote. Right, it's sometimes often our first glimpse

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Speaker 1: of redemptive love and caring community, because Man, I have

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Speaker 1: had to work through some things in my friendships, you know,

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Speaker 1: where there was maybe a really big conflict, and not

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Speaker 1: often and not all of them, but there have been

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Speaker 1: a couple in particular that I can think of that

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Speaker 1: stand out where there was twice with two separate people,

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Speaker 1: I thought like, oh, this friendship might not survive this conflict,

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Speaker 1: and then we had the really hard, uncomfortable conversations and

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Speaker 1: it survived and I'm still friends with them now. So

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Speaker 1: I think even like allowing yourself to have conflict, like,

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Speaker 1: not everything can be of not everything should be a

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Speaker 1: friend breakup, but friend breakups do happen, and sometimes they're

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Speaker 1: for the best. But sometimes the friendships are worth fighting

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Speaker 1: for and actually having the difficult conversations and acknowledging that

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Speaker 1: there was a hurt or harm caused and then working

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Speaker 1: through it if it's possible.

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Speaker 2: Very important stuff. And thank you all for listening.

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Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time. Besitos look at Radio is

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Speaker 1: executive produced by Viosa Fem and Mala Munios.

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Franco is our producer.

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Speaker 1: Story editing by me Viosa.

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00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: Creative direction by me Mala.

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00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 1: Look at Our Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael

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00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: Dura podcast network.

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00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: You can listen to look at Radio on the iHeartRadio

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00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 2: app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 1: Leave us a review and share with your prima or

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00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 1: share with your homegirl.

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00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 2: And thank you to our loc a morees to our

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Speaker 2: listeners for tuning in each and every week.

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Speaker 1: Besitos logal Lumdia