1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to learn how influential we 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: as humans can be on wildlife populations and habitats. And 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: we're going to accomplish this by learning about an incredible 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: woman named Fanny Cook, one of the most extraordinary, impactful 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: and bold conservationists to ever live. And when you get 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: to the end of this story, you'll realize I'm not exaggerating, 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: So grab a seat or hold on to something, because 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: this story is going to blow your mind. It's a 9 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: Friday afternoon and I'm walking into the Mississippi Museum of 10 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: Natural Science. I have an appointment with a man named Scott, 11 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: who is the collections manager, to see some of the 12 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: original work that literally shaped the conservation history of the 13 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: state of Mississippi. 14 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: And she loved you know, a project from you mid 15 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: nine thirteen thirties early nineteen forty and documented Plasson islams 16 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: hereout the states right working. 17 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: For As I followed mister Scott through the maze of 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: museum hallways, my eyes are constantly being pulled to different sites. 19 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: A paleontology room on the right, filled with prehistoric bones, 20 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: murals of wildlife hanging on the walls, until finally he 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: opens a door on the right hand side of the 22 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: hallway and walks in. We enter a small room that 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: reminds me of the biology labs that I sat in 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: during my years as a wildlife science. 25 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 3: Student at Mississippi State. 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: On one of the work tables, they are laid out 27 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: an assortment of collected and preserved plant and animal specimens. 28 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 4: So she did a lot of bird collecting. 29 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, she got a green wing teal there, the. 30 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: Green wing till. This one was collected in nineteen twenty four, 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: which preducts the museum by. 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, number of years, nineteen twenty four. I'm holding a 33 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: preserved green wing teal from nineteen twenty four that's one 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: hundred and one years old. If that isn't crazy enough, 35 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: This specimen was part of the first wildlife research ever 36 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: done in Mississippi. This was done in a time when 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: there was very little known about wildlife populations, distributions, what 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: all types of species lived in a state. It was 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: a different world and it's crazy to think about. 40 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 4: This was a beaver skull that she collected from. This 41 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 4: was nineteen forties. 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: It, man, I know, it's wild to me because I've 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: done so much research on this woman at this point, 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: it's just crazy, to say, crazy to see something that 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: she collected herself. 46 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: That's good. I've got some more specials on another room. 47 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 2: These are all dry specimens, but I've got fish reptiles. 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty incredible woman. 49 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: The work Fanny Cook would have done would have been 50 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: kind of the first baseline. 51 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 3: Is that great? 52 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 4: I would have been baseline from Mississippi. 53 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: I went with Scott down several more hallways, into several 54 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: more rooms, checking out preserved fish specimens that also back 55 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: to the early nineteen hundreds, preserved plants like the first 56 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: documented kadzu in the state, and several more than that. 57 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: More than I have time to mention. To be fully honest, 58 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: the collection size was pretty astounding. But now I bet 59 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: y'all have a lot of questions, like why am I 60 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: so interested in these old animal and plant collections? Who 61 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: is this mysterious woman that myself and the museum collections 62 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: manager keep referring to. Well, don't worry, because I'm going 63 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: to answer all of your questions. But first I have 64 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: to set the stage. In nineteen twenty nine, Mississippi was 65 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: the only state in the country that did not have 66 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: any game laws. There were no seasons, no bag limits, 67 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: no regulations, no game wardens, no wildlife biologists. There was 68 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: no game and fish department. Market hunting was rampant, plume 69 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: hunting was rampant, timber harvest was unchecked, and the state, 70 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: my home state, was on a steady path towards complete 71 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: and utter destruction of its natural resources. How do we 72 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: oh this? Because it's very well documented. Auto Leopold, which 73 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm confident is a name most of you already know, 74 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: made a trip down to Mississippi during this time and 75 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: wrote a report on it. I'm going to quote Leopold's 76 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: report directly as he gives his account of the condition 77 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: of Mississippi's natural resources in nineteen twenty nine. The game 78 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: situation in Mississippi quailer holding in their entire available range, 79 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: but in decreasing abundance due to overshooting unaccompanied by cultural measures. 80 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: While turkey are still decreasing, they have been cleaned out 81 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 1: of the upland ranges, and there's barely a seed stock 82 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: left in the larger swamps. The factors determining the turkey 83 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: crop are imperfectly known, but it is a safe guess 84 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: that they are overkilled in this state. Refuges Education law 85 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: enforcement and fact finding are badly needed. White tailed deer 86 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: are in light case, but the decimation of the remaining 87 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: stock is more complete. Waterfowl are not especially investigated, but 88 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: it is obvious that they need refuge if the shooting 89 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: is to hold up. Pheasants have been tried but so 90 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: far failed. It is probably not possible to introduce them. 91 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: By and large, small game conditions are fair and big 92 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: game conditions bad. In Mississippi, the present game supply, except 93 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: for a few private preserves, so far, is the result 94 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: of accident rather than design. There is no state game 95 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: department and only the beginnings of a conservation movement. There 96 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: is no refuge system, very little law enforcement. While there 97 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: are beginnings of game management on a few preserves, the 98 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: people of Mississippi are still a long way from either 99 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: wanting or understanding conservation end quote. So if Mississippi was 100 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: in that core of a state in nineteen twenty nine, 101 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: it leads me to ask the question of what happened? 102 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: I mean, something must have happened, right, I mean, look 103 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: at Mississippi now in twenty twenty five. 104 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 3: We have an. 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: Incredibly dense deer population, so much so that the Wildlife 106 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: Department is actually asking hunters to shoot more deer. We 107 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: have a very popular spring turkey, we have duck and 108 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: goose seasons, and many many others. 109 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: So what happened? What turned the ship around? 110 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: It's time for all of you to learn about the 111 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: incredible life and work of Miss Fanny Cook, the woman 112 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: who saved the natural resources of Mississippi. Fanny Cook was 113 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: born in Crystal Springs, Mississippi, in eighteen eighty nine. She 114 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: grew up amongst six sisters and three brothers and one 115 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: of the biggest farming families in the city. When Fanny 116 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: was a child, she showed early interest in the natural world. 117 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: There's a biography written on the life of Miss Cook 118 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: that is titled Fanny Cook, Mississippi's Pioneering Conservationists, and in 119 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: it it makes note that her father told her about 120 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: the plight of the passenger pigeon when she was just 121 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: a child, explaining to her how the sky once upon 122 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: a time would literally fill up with flocks of these pigeons, 123 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: billions of them, and now they were gone. It's always 124 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: been believed that this had an effect on When Fanny 125 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: got older she moved away from Crystal Springs. She spent 126 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: some time teaching in Panama, she moved up to Wyoming 127 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: for a spell. She eventually would wind up in Washington, 128 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: d c. Where she planned to get a PhD in ornithology, 129 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: the study of birds. It was during this time that 130 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: she got a job working at the Smithsonian and received 131 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: her first formal training in collecting plant. 132 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: And animal specimens for scientific use. 133 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: This would end up being a very important part in 134 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: Fanny's life, as her path would eventually lead her to 135 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: a place where her scientific knowledge of wildlife would be invaluable. Okay, 136 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: we've covered all the preliminaries. We've set the stage, and 137 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: now we get to the real meat of the story. 138 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty six, Fanny Cook returned home to Mississippi 139 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: to find it in a severely depleted state in terms 140 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: of its natural resources. It was then that her real 141 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: work began. And I feel like there's one more important 142 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: factor that cannot go unmentioned. Like I said earlier, Fannie's 143 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: most important work started around nineteen twenty six. During this time, 144 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: in our country, the treatment of women was very, very different. 145 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: The Nineteenth Amendment, which gave women the right to vote, 146 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: had just been passed six years prior. In nineteen twenty. 147 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: This was a different culture. Remember that as we move 148 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: forward in this story, because not only does it make 149 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: her accomplishments more impressive, but it also comes into play 150 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: in this story several times. To help me tell this story, 151 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: I enrolled the help of a very special woman. Her 152 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: name is Miss Libby Hartfield, and she was the director 153 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: of the Mississippi Museum of Natural Science for thirty seven years. 154 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: I want to kick this off by letting Miss Hartfield 155 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: tell you a few funny stories about Fanny Cook. They'll 156 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: make you laugh, but they'll also give you an idea 157 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: of the kind of energy and attitude that Miss Cook had. 158 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 5: The first story her sister told us. She said, we 159 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 5: were going to Georgia Bell Carpet's and Fanny was driving us, 160 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 5: a group of ladies from Crystal Springs, and she was 161 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 5: always slowing down and grabbing her binoculars to look at 162 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 5: something on the road, and we were all mad at her. 163 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 5: And she says, so she pulls the car over, and 164 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 5: she says, I gotta have that bird. She had her 165 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 5: gun in the back of the car. She shoots the bird. 166 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 5: So they're all, you know, getting mad and standing there 167 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 5: by the side of the road. By a pond, and 168 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 5: she said she stripped down and got that bird, and 169 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 5: she says, we were so mad. She says, I didn't 170 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 5: talk to her for two days after that. But it 171 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 5: was and she had never been a good driver. She 172 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 5: was a legendary bad driver, because they said she's always 173 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 5: looking over there at a bird, and she'll run you 174 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 5: in the gravel in a minute, they would say. So 175 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 5: her friends didn't really like her to drive them. The 176 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 5: biologists and the conservation officer sort of took turns going 177 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 5: with her to the field because she was getting older. 178 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 5: You know, she's in her sixties. So then the conservation 179 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 5: officer tells the story. He said that she shot a bird. 180 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 5: She asked the officer to go get it because it 181 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 5: fell in the water, and he said that water's too cold, 182 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 5: miss Cook, I'm not going out there to get it. 183 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 5: And she said, well, then turn around, I'll get it. 184 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 5: And so they said she stripped down and ran out 185 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 5: there and not that bird came back. And that's when 186 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 5: she was real mad. She says, I've always said there 187 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 5: wasn't anything a man could do a woman couldn't do better. 188 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 5: And so. 189 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: I know a couple of folks I could accuse of 190 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: being a bad driver, but none of which for the 191 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: sake of pulling over to collect a bird in the 192 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: name of science. Now that we have a better idea 193 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: of the kind of charisma Miss Fanny Cook possessed, let's 194 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: dig into her work. You can't appreciate miss Cook completely 195 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: until you understand what she fully pulled us out of. 196 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 5: Why did we need She wasn't just creating a bureaucracy, right, ye, 197 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 5: she was really trying to save some things pretty much 198 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 5: from what she could tell, every state had a department 199 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 5: that was in charge of dealing with wildlife in each state, 200 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 5: and they had statewide laws. The most that Mississippi had 201 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 5: at that time were some counties that had an interest 202 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 5: in They had laws and the sheriff's department would enforce 203 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 5: those laws. And even by the admission of some of 204 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 5: the sheriffs, that was a very hard thing to do. 205 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 5: And so I don't think they minded getting some state 206 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 5: wide assistance with that too. You know, you didn't want 207 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 5: to be the one to go out and tell your 208 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 5: brother in law it couldn't be hunting at night. So yeah, 209 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 5: it made sense to have a dedicated agency to a 210 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 5: lot of people. So in nineteen twenty seven, she founded 211 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 5: what she called the Mississippi Association for the Conservation of Wildlife. 212 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 5: And we're not talking about a dozen people. She had 213 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 5: two hundred and eighty six charter members, and included in 214 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 5: those were judges and bankers and business owners from all 215 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 5: over the state. So she must have done some really 216 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 5: quick work if she came back to the state in 217 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 5: twenty six and a year later started this foundation that 218 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 5: had a really powerful board and a lot of people 219 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 5: already interested, they were bound to have been some people 220 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 5: all around that wanted conservation. 221 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: To refer back to Leopold's quote from earlier, you may 222 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: remember him speaking of an early but small conservation movement 223 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: and that it was taking place on what he called 224 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: private preserves. This would have been private land that was 225 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: well managed and also relatively protected from market hunting. When 226 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: Fanny established her association, it's believed that many of her 227 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: first members were some of these same landowners. This association 228 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: would be kind of like today's equivalent of a local 229 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,479 Speaker 1: Ducks Unlimited or NWTF chapter, and it was a significant 230 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: step forwards towards her end goal of getting an actual 231 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: game and fish department established in the state. You could 232 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: join this group of fine conservation minded folks for an 233 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: annual fee of one dollar. I'm going to read you 234 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: the bulleted list that Fanny put together as kind of 235 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: the mission statement for this association. This would have been 236 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: put out on pamphlets and posters for people to see 237 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: to help advertise it. I think this gives us a 238 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: very clear understanding of where her head was at from 239 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: the very beginning. This is Fanny's list. More sport for 240 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: the sportsman, more furs for the trapper. More fish in 241 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: the streams, more beneficial hawks and owls to eat, field 242 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: rats and mice. More songbirds in town and country. More holly, 243 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 1: wild crab, apples, dogwood and azalea to beautify roadsides and woodlands. 244 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: More boys and girls, men and women who love the 245 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: outdoors and who go there with seeing eyes and hearing ears. 246 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: I don't know about y'all, but that's something I can 247 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: get behind. I want to ask miss Hartfield about some 248 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: of the attitudes of the general public at the time. 249 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: How do they feel about a conservation movement, market hunting, 250 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: and so on. It's easy to throw stones at market 251 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: hunting now, and not that I like. I'm not trying 252 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: to draw up a picture that I'm a fan of 253 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: market hunting. 254 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 3: I'm not. 255 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: But one thing that I struggle with is I look 256 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: back at that and I go, should. 257 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 3: Be mad about that? 258 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: But then you have to I'm like, man, if those 259 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: people were actually like, this is how I get food 260 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: for my family, then it's different. 261 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 5: Oh definitely. 262 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: So I'm looking at it like, if it's in the 263 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: middle of the depression and you have somebody pushing for 264 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: regulations on how you gather this wild game, there probably 265 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: had to be some friction there. 266 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 5: And the key to that is that the market hunters, 267 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 5: the plume hunters, had just kind of gotten beat down. 268 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: You know. 269 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 5: At first they were collecting those feathers all over and 270 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 5: just killing rookeries and things. 271 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: Explain what a plume hunter is. 272 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 5: Okay, plume hunter. Starting in I think about the eighteen 273 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 5: eighties and maybe even before that, feathers just became the 274 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 5: heights of fashion, even for some men's garments, men's hats. 275 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 5: You know, you'd always see that little feather in the hat. 276 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 5: A pheasant feather was popular in a man's hat. Women 277 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 5: would sometimes have a whole pheasant on top of their head. 278 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 5: You know, it was just gotten to the point of bizarre. 279 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 5: But when you think about how those those birds were collected, 280 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 5: they were it damaged bird populations really all over the world, 281 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 5: but particularly North America. I guess we had a lot 282 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 5: of millinery establishments at that point, so they were selling 283 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 5: the hats and birds. In England, they the English people 284 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 5: did pass laws first, but it may be that they 285 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 5: were decimated first too. And then so in the United States, 286 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 5: people were starting to cry out, you know, because the 287 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 5: hunters for the feathers would just go out and kill 288 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 5: everything in the rookery, and then adjacent landowner would go 289 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 5: down there and they said there were baby birds dying 290 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 5: in the nest. Nothing we could do, and so people's 291 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 5: feelings were hurt that that was happening, and they weren't 292 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 5: getting any money for wow, because they weren't paying the landowner. 293 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 5: This was out of state establishments evidently coming and just 294 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 5: traveling around hunting well, so the market hunting was similar. 295 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 5: Is what the way Fanny Cook's letters kind of lay 296 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 5: it out, is that out of state interests were coming down. 297 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 5: They would get close to a railroad line, they would 298 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 5: they might hire some local people to round up game, though, 299 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 5: and then they would slaughter it, put it on ice, 300 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 5: and take it all north. So local people when they 301 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 5: went out to hunt, the deer was gone. 302 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: Really what you're describing there, that sounds like a different world. Yeah, 303 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: like that, everything that you're describing sounds bizarre. 304 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. So maybe the landowner got paid something for him 305 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 5: doing harvesting is his deer, and maybe not much of anything, 306 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 5: But it sounds like a lot of the landowners decided 307 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 5: this is not the way to go either. 308 00:16:58,760 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 4: Wow. 309 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 5: Whoever, these two hundred and eighty six people that joined 310 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 5: her organization, they were kind of making a stand against that, right, So. 311 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: You had people that were obviously in favor of it, 312 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: but then obviously that she met some friction as. 313 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 5: Well as I think so because it certainly slowed down. 314 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 5: It took seven years. 315 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: Seven years to do what to get her was obvious, 316 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: right right. Let me throw you a hypothetical situation. Imagine 317 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: you and your family own a chunk of hunting land 318 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: and you find out one day that a group of 319 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: guys from out of state that you don't even know, 320 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: came through your property and shot every dear they saw, 321 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: put it on ice, and shipped it off to be sold. 322 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: Aside from feeling enraged. It also sounds pretty bizarre and outlandish, right, Well, 323 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: if you were around Mississippi in the nineteen twenties, this 324 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: could be a very common reality. This is the complicated 325 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: and conflicted side of our history with our wife wildlife, 326 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: And while it's not the prettiest affiliate's important that we 327 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: know it. 328 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 3: This is why Fanny. 329 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: Cook was on a mission to establish a game commission. 330 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: And if you caught the last bit of what Miss 331 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: Hartfield said there, she gave a little bit away. The 332 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: game and fish commission that Fanny Cook was determined to 333 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: establish would take her seven years to get done. 334 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 5: She did two or three things that to me were 335 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 5: just a genius and I don't know if again there 336 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 5: was probably some luck involved, but also some intent. She 337 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 5: was always collecting things and she was a pretty good taxidermist, 338 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 5: so she made little wildlife scenes, diramas and things. She 339 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 5: started taking them to the fairs, county fairs and the 340 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 5: State Fair, and one year, I think it was it 341 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 5: was right there close to when the bill passed. That 342 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 5: last year she went to the state Fair and her 343 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 5: little building on wildlife was so popular that when the 344 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 5: fair closed, they had to keep it open because everybody said, 345 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 5: we haven't gotten to see it yet, So that, to me, 346 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 5: that was the beginning of the museum. Later, all those specimens, 347 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 5: because we've seen pictures of her fare exhibits as she 348 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 5: called them. Yeah, and she said I had to take 349 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 5: She said, you know, this means a lot to me 350 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 5: because I had to take my precious specimens out and 351 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 5: expose them to the dirt and dust of the state fairs. 352 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 5: But she did it. 353 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 354 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: Today, if you want to start any sort of organization, 355 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: start a movement, get the word out there, whatever, there 356 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: are all kinds of outlets at your disposal, the most 357 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: powerful among them being things like social media, podcast, email, blast, etc. 358 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: But when Fanny was doing all this, it was the 359 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties. So this one determined woman was sending out 360 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: letters to legislators, forming wildlife conservation groups, taxidermying animals and 361 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: carting them around to fairs in the name of teaching 362 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: wildlife conservation, all in the name of trying to get 363 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: a game and Fish department established. That's some serious determination. 364 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: I'm curious about how she was managing to do all 365 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: of this. Did she get any funding for all of 366 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: her campaigning and going to the State Fair. Did she 367 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: have any help or was she just going upon her 368 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: own initiative to do all this. 369 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 5: In nineteen twenty nine, she did an interview with the 370 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 5: Jackson Daily News, which is really, to me a very 371 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 5: well written. It was at Camp Kickapoo, which is close 372 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 5: over here. A reporter says that I interviewed Missus Cook, 373 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 5: and she says she said. Cook said Indian fashion on 374 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 5: a hillside and talked to me about it. And basically 375 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 5: what she said was, you know, this is a sorry 376 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 5: state of affairs in Mississippi. We've got to get this done. 377 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 5: But the reporter asked her, how do you fund your campaign? 378 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 5: And she laughed and said, I'm pretty much unfunded. She says, 379 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 5: I have a large, generous family that helps me a lot. 380 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 5: And she says, and if I'm low on funds, she says, 381 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 5: I stand pretty good with my family. And when I 382 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 5: get hungry, I hang my feet under my dad's tables. 383 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 5: If I fall out with him, I guess I'll go 384 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 5: visit him. 385 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: So largely self propelled, Missus Cooke, self motivated, self initiative, 386 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: some help from families, some help with an office, but 387 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: mostly she did all this and that's what's so crazy 388 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: to me. Even if she was trying to save the 389 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: natural resources of her hometown, it would still be noble, 390 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: but it would make more sense because it's like she's 391 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: strugg but she's libbying for the entire state, and she's 392 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: libbying for and it's like, man like, where does she 393 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: get that drive? 394 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 4: Where? 395 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: Like, where did such a conviction to do this? 396 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: Where did it come from? 397 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, I've wondered that. Why did she think she could 398 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 5: do this? 399 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? Why? Talking about a different world? 400 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: She's leading this charge in a culture that they're just 401 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: getting used to women being able to vote, and she's 402 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: leading the charge on all this. It's insane to me. 403 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: Where did she get the drive to do this? Self propelled, 404 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: self funded, with the exception of a little help from 405 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: her family, Fanny was for the most part, a one 406 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: woman force, and a force that was starting to get momentum. 407 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: And speaking of that, one of the biggest upticks Fanny 408 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: got in her campaign for wildlife conservation came in nineteen 409 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: twenty nine when the widely perceived father of wildlife management 410 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: and conservation, Aldo Leopold, made a trip down to Mississippi 411 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: to write a report. This would be the same trip 412 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: and report that resulted in the quote that we read 413 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode, where Leopold is essentially 414 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: listing off the evident abuse of Mississippi's natural resources and 415 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: calling for change by way of a structured game and 416 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: fish system. 417 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 5: Aldo Leopold went with her to like Chataqull when he 418 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 5: went to Crystal Spring. 419 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 3: Does not know that. I did not know that. 420 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 5: We know that because in some letters, like here's when 421 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 5: I've got a quote in the letters referred to you 422 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 5: remember the partridge berries which you noticed in the woodland 423 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 5: near Lake Chautauqua. I'm sending you seeds. 424 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: Sent to live seeds for a partridge peek. 425 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 5: For a partridge berries that he had seen at Lake Chautauqua. 426 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 3: That's cool. 427 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 5: So and obviously they they had kind of a friendly relationship. 428 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 429 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 5: See, we don't know if she even influenced him coming 430 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 5: to the stay. We have no proof that she did. 431 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 5: We don't have any letters or anything. But it was 432 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 5: just awfully coincidental, wasn't it. It makes me think that 433 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 5: it could have been that she knew somebody to ask. 434 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, because he sought her out when he came down here. 435 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 5: Yes, and we have a list in his report of 436 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 5: the landowners that he went to see, and if you 437 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 5: lay it up against her board, it's pretty much identical. 438 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 4: Really. 439 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was definitely some coordination there. 440 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is too cool. 441 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: If you compare the list of landowners Leopold went to 442 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: visit when he came down to Mississippi to the list 443 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: of Fanny Cook's board of her Mississippi Association for Conservation 444 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: of Wildlife, it's pretty much identical. Leopold also sought her 445 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: out when he came down here and asked her for 446 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: help and reference with his report. Not to mention, by 447 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: the time he made it down here, she had been 448 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: on her campaign for three years. And while we can't 449 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: prove outright that she was a driving force in getting 450 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: him to come down here, I think we can all 451 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: agree there's an awful lot of evidence to suggest that 452 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: she played a huge role. There's also one more thing 453 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: I want to add while we're on the subject of Leopold. 454 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: The quote that we read earlier. You remember, the real 455 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: depressing one about the wildlife of Mississippi on the verge 456 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: of being wiped out. Well, there's a little more to it, 457 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: and I'm going to read it to you now begin quote. 458 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: There is one offset to all these defects, a widespread 459 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: and intense popular interest in game and hunting. In this respect, 460 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: Mississippi excels any other state so far, Sir by me endo. 461 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: Leopold then goes on to say, in so many words 462 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: that leveraging this popularity of hunting and using education and 463 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: agencies would be the only way to maintain a game 464 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: supply in Mississippi. I have to say, one of the 465 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: coolest discoveries I made while researching for this episode was 466 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: seeing the clear lines that both out of Leopold and 467 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: Fanny Cook drew, connecting hunters and conservationists as the clear 468 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: pathway for saving wildlife. And they also drew a hard 469 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: line between market hunters and conservationists. In fact, the term 470 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: they used to explain the two were game hogs and sportsmen. 471 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: The momentum gain by Leopold's nineteen twenty nine trip and 472 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: report would carry through until the year nineteen thirty two. 473 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: In January of nineteen thirty two, the newly elected governor 474 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: of Mississippi stated in his first address that he wanted 475 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: to see a Game and Fish Commission established, and while 476 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: there was no physical evidence to prove he had been 477 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: influenced by Fanny Cook. She had been on a self 478 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: propelled campaign for seven years at this point, pushing for 479 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: this exact thing, writing to legislators, visiting legislators, attending fairs, 480 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: the displays, the presentations, the clubs, the associations, the Aldo 481 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: Leopold expeditions. 482 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 3: So y'all believe what you want to believe. 483 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: But me personally, I'm rolling with miss Cook on this one. 484 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: She convinced the governor to push for the commission, and 485 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: you can't lead me to believe otherwise. The woman was 486 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: a needle mover, the commission gets established. Yeah, in my 487 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: purview or like my understanding, it's like you have this 488 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: woman that was obvious to everybody, was the main one 489 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: pushing for it. I would think that she's obvious to 490 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: be like, all right, well you're in charge of this commission. 491 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: You're the one that's been pushing for it for seven years. 492 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 3: That that didn't happen. 493 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, And once again we have some letters she wrote 494 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 5: to There's a doctor BArch who was pretty well known, 495 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 5: and he lucky is luck would have it. And I 496 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 5: think this was just luck. He was one of her 497 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 5: professors and she helped him at the Smithsonian as well. 498 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 5: In this letter to doctor BArch, she says, you know, 499 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 5: we've done it. We've got this, We've got her organization now. 500 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 5: And there were letters from him all along where she 501 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 5: was talking about her work and he was always encouraging 502 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 5: her to keep pushing and keep pushing, and so it 503 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 5: was like, hallelujah, We've got it. And she says, they've 504 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 5: offered me a job within the agency and asked me 505 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 5: what I wanted to be, and she says, I don't 506 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 5: think I want to be a commissioner because they don't 507 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 5: get paid, and it's just going to be a temporary kind, 508 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 5: you know, it'll be just for a term. She says, 509 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 5: I think I want to do something more permanent with 510 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 5: the agency. She says, I can't imagine being head of 511 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 5: the agency because you would be so involved in law enforcement. 512 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 5: He says, so I think I would probably be better 513 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 5: suited in something in research and education. So she chose 514 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 5: not to be in a way. She did, but you 515 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 5: could tell she wasn't positive. So he writes her back 516 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 5: and basically says, congratulations, you've done so much hard work. 517 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 5: You've really earned this, and then he just lays it 518 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 5: right out there. He says, if you were a man, 519 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 5: any of those statutory positions that are in the law 520 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 5: would be perfect for you, he said. But he said, 521 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 5: you women are hard creatures to place, which is a 522 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 5: strange thing way to put it, isn't it. He says, 523 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 5: I think that you would be better suited for education 524 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 5: and research. And he says, and you don't want to 525 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 5: take the chance of damaging the very thing you've spent 526 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 5: all your time creating. Wow, So that's kind to be 527 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 5: a little heartbreaking. He's telling her it wouldn't be good 528 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 5: for your agency to put for you to be the 529 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 5: head of it now that you made it man. So 530 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 5: he said, you don't want to hurt the very thing 531 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 5: you've spent so much of your time and effort in creating. 532 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: And again, it's like I'm trying to read the tone 533 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: of a letter that was sent so many years ago. 534 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: But in my head, it's like, even if he did 535 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: feel that way, which obviously he did, it's like Fanny 536 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: already said that she didn't really want to do that. 537 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 3: Anyway. He didn't have to say all that. He didn't have. 538 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 5: To say no, he didn't, But somehow he just laid 539 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 5: it out there. Maybe he didn't want her to take 540 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 5: the chance of saying, oh, I want to be executive director. 541 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 5: He thought that would be wrong. 542 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: So in one letter he fully acknowledges, like he credits 543 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: her for working really hard earning it. You're the one 544 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: that got this here, that got this agent. He credits 545 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: her to creating it. And the same letter he says, 546 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: you would damage it if you let it. 547 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 5: When I think it was I can't remember if it 548 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 5: was Milly or Cathy that found the letter, but I 549 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 5: remember that we both just cried when we read it. 550 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: So you and miss Cathy found that original letter. 551 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: I did not know that. 552 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 5: In her papers. Yeah, I mean, you know, we just 553 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 5: we were working amongst all of her stuff. It was 554 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 5: all there. She I think she was fine with not 555 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 5: getting the credit, if that makes. 556 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 3: Sense, gotcha. 557 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was really in it for the sake of 558 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: the resource. 559 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 5: She really was. Yeah, we could we could have lost 560 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 5: all the game in the state. I guess it could have. 561 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 5: I think things could have been decimated. You want to think, well, 562 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 5: if she didn't do it, somebody else would have stepped 563 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 5: up and done it. But I don't know who because 564 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 5: they hadn't done it yet. 565 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: And we were at such a breaking point, and her 566 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: established in that commission. When the commission got established, I 567 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: do not one of the first things they started working 568 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: on was turkey re establishment. And everyone knows like how 569 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: important turkey hunting is down here. And it took her 570 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: seven years to establish that commission. So if she wouldn't 571 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: have done it, I don't think it's outlandish for me 572 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: to say we might have wiped him out completely. 573 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I think we could have. Yeah. 574 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: When Loopol did this survey, there was an estimate of 575 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: twelve hundred deer in the state. 576 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 3: She came at the nick of time. 577 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: If anybody, anybody, not just a resident, if anybody has hunted, fished, 578 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: or enjoyed the natural resources of the state of Mississippi 579 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: in any way, you owe miss cooked your gratitude. 580 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 5: Oh, I think that's definitely true. Yeah. The beginnings of 581 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 5: all the wildlife management areas, she laid them out there 582 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 5: with that first staff at the agency WMA's. Yeah, the 583 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 5: WMAs would not be there without game. 584 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: They hadn't done it game reintroductions. I mean, so she 585 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: had she had like first like hands on involvement in 586 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: establishing public land. She had hands on involvement in reintroductions 587 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: of several game species. Yeah, the Fishes of Mississippi, land, 588 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: mammal snakes in Mississippi. 589 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 3: She did all of this. 590 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, Horn Island, Ship Island. You know, evidently those things 591 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 5: would not have been saved, that would have been just 592 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 5: sold to private landowners if she hadn't been there. 593 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 3: How long did she stay with the agency? Was she? 594 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 5: She stayed involved for Yeah, and at that time there 595 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 5: was no elder rights. I guess at that time you 596 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 5: had to retire at seventy Okay. And there is a 597 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 5: remark somewhere that says she was the oldest person in 598 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 5: the Game and Fish Commission when she retired. 599 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 3: So once she started, she didn't leave. 600 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 5: Didn't She stayed until they pretty much state government forced 601 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: to retire because she had to, But she kept working. 602 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 5: One of the reasons that I think she was okay 603 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 5: with retiring she was trying to finish this. 604 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 3: Book, okay, the Fishes of Mississippi. 605 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 5: Fishers of Mississippi. And she was not the greatest pipist, 606 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 5: and so she wrote to mister Gandy and asked him 607 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 5: if she could use his secretary at the museum to 608 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 5: finish her book. And he said yes, and so she, 609 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 5: you know, drove back and I guess back and forth 610 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 5: from Crystal Springs until she and the secretary finished the 611 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 5: book and it was published the next year in fifty nine. 612 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 5: And then she died in sixty four. 613 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: The day before she passed away, she was on a tour. 614 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: She was on a bird tour. 615 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 5: Is that she led a group of boy Scouts on 616 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 5: a birding trip the day before she died. 617 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 3: So she never stopped, she never stopped doing it. 618 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,719 Speaker 1: I almost feel like you could look at the end 619 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: of miss Cook's life and feel like it was something 620 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: out of a movie script. She spends years creating this commission. 621 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: When the commission gets established, she's told she can work there, 622 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: but she's not allowed to run it. But she doesn't care. 623 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: She cares so much about the work that she stays 624 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: there until she's forced to retire, and then spends her 625 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: retirement taking kids out on bird viewing tours and finishing 626 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: books that would aid Mississippi's wildlife and wildlife biologists for 627 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: years to come. Case in point, the collected work of 628 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: hers that I went and saw at the museum that 629 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: still being used today and the very day before her 630 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: passing of a heart attack she was taking a group 631 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: of boy Scouts on a bird tour. I'm just gonna 632 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: come right out and say it. This woman does not 633 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: get the credit she deserves. But I'm curious how Miss 634 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: Libby Hartfield feels about this. 635 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 5: I would agree, of course, I do think she does, 636 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 5: but I also think that that wouldn't matter very much 637 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 5: to her. 638 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 3: How long did you work at the museum? 639 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 5: Thirty seven years? 640 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: It's clear Fanny Cook means something to you. You and 641 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: Miss Cathy, Why does she mean so much to you? 642 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 5: I don't know exactly. I think we felt like if 643 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 5: if she did that, we could too. 644 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: Miss Fanny Cook a naturalist, a wildlife biologist, an establisher 645 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: of public lands, and the woman who saved the natural 646 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: re sources of Mississippi. One of the greatest conservationists to 647 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: ever live. I told y'all I wasn't exaggerating. I want 648 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: to thank all of you for listening to Backwoods University 649 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: as well as Bear Greece in this Country Life. And 650 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: I want to give a big shout out to Onyx 651 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: Hunt for making this podcast possible. If you liked this episode, 652 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: share it with a friend and stick around because there's 653 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: a whole lot more on the way.