1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome back to the Deal. 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Erica Ayers Badon, she's now the CEO 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: of Food fifty two. You knew her in her previous 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: job as CEO of Barstool Sports. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: I did. And she's a master at turner around companies. 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: I cannot wait to hear it. But she's a great leader, 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: great communicator, and she's onto new things. 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, she has got massive ambitions. She's also deep into 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: the world of lacrosse. She played in college and now 10 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: she's on the board of the premier lacrosse League with 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: our buddy Paul Rabel, So lots to talk to her 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: about coming up. Erica ayers Badon, All right, my man, 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: Erica ayers Badan is here with us. You guys are 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: all buddies, So I gotta turn this over to you. 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: You gotta lead this one. 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: This is strange, So thank you, Jason So Erica, we're 17 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: so excited to have you. Obviously we work together a 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: little bit with barstool'ew you first hand how wonderful you 19 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: led with the conviction and really how much success they 20 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: had under your leadership, and the growth was incredible. Now 21 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: you're Food fifty two. It feels like a big pivot. 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: What is the through line for you? 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: It's a great question, So thank you for having me. 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: I sold Barstool twice in twenty twenty three, so we 25 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 3: sold it to Penn National and then we bought it 26 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 3: back for Dave Portner I for a. 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: Dollar and oh, we're going to talk about. 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: That come September twenty twenty three. I was like, there's 29 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 3: I've done everything I came to do here, like I 30 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: have any I couldn't have dreamed that we would have 31 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: had two exits in a year, that the company would 32 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 3: be back with Dave. I really felt good about that 33 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: because I felt like Dave was always the right steward 34 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: for Barstool, and I gave what I could give and 35 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: the gift of the machine while I was there, and 36 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: I felt that the greatest offense to what I had 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 3: done for the past almost a decade would be to 38 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 3: stay after I was creating, and I just felt like 39 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 3: it was offensive to everything I sacrificed to build it 40 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: that I wanted to go find a new adventure and 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 3: a place where I could start and try to build 42 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 3: something again. And so that was really the pivot. I 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: also felt like I had marketed to eighteen to twenty 44 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: four year old men for you know, the better part 45 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: of a decade. And I was like, I know how 46 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 3: to do this. I was finding that I wasn't I 47 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: wasn't crazy stimulated by it. And I was writing a 48 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 3: book at the time, and the last section of the 49 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 3: book is do you stay or do you go? And 50 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: the point where you go is when things stop scaring you. 51 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 3: And I felt that moving into the women's space and 52 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 3: moving into home and lifestyle and manufacturing was sufficiently scary. 53 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 3: And so I made the pivot. 54 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: And I've never asked you this, how do you get 55 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: an opportunity like borsch do? There was a headhunter call 56 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: and say, Erica, I have a wild idea. How does 57 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: that work? 58 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: No? 59 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 3: So it was actually funny. So when it was very rare, 60 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 3: and it was by accident. So I was in Los 61 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: Angeles and I worked in music. I had a startup 62 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 3: in the music space trying to build really fan platforms 63 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: around music artists, and we were raising money and we 64 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: went to go see the Charning group and I walked 65 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 3: into the meeting and the Charning group were like, oh, hey, 66 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: we just put money to this company. You've never heard of. 67 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, what's the company and they said, oh, 68 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 3: it's Barstool Sports. And I pulled up my phone and 69 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 3: I was like, I lived in Boston when Dave started Barstool. 70 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: I used to get you know, I'd be hungover on 71 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 3: the tee and I would read the paper and I 72 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: have the app, and I'm like, here's everything that's right 73 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 3: with it, here's everything that's wrong with it. And my 74 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: business partner was pissed because as he was like, we 75 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 3: should be focusing on raising money for us. But I 76 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 3: really couldn't shake that conversation. I felt very jealous because 77 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: I knew that they would probably find a white guy 78 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: with an MBA and a vest and a button down shirt, 79 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: and that was not me. And I pursued that opportunity. 80 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 3: I tried to find anyone I could to get connected 81 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: to Dave. I finally got connected to Dave probably three 82 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 3: months later. We met in a coffee shop in the 83 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: West Village and I pretty much was working for Barstools 84 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 3: since that moment, but it didn't come. It was actually 85 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: very interesting because they had interviewed I think probably seventy 86 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 3: ish guys, seventy seventy five guys or men for the job, 87 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: and you could tell the recruiter was irritated by the 88 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 3: time I showed up because the recruiter had done his part. 89 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 3: You know, it was showing candidates, showing candidates. 90 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: Like I've delivered all these bros like. 91 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 3: And this chick walks in and so that's that's how 92 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: I got it. 93 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: Wow, did you have any idea what you were in for? 94 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 3: No, No, you. 95 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: Said something interesting a minute ago that I love, which 96 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: is the gift of the machine. Was that what was 97 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: in your mind that that's what it needed because it 98 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: was what it was less than five million dollars. 99 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 3: Oh, it was, it was less than five million dollars. 100 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: It was probably fourteen people. They were based in Boston, 101 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 3: like it was. You know, when I remember my first 102 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: summer there, there was no office. I worked in hotel 103 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 3: lobbies and coffee shops while we while Dave and I 104 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: built the office, opened the office, we weren't sure who 105 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: was on payroll. 106 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: So, speaking of that, you go from under fifteen people employees, 107 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: you go from the sub five million revenue. You probably 108 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: don't even have a P and L. Really, Yeah, by 109 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: the time you leave, you go from that to about 110 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty million out of the top line revenue. 111 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 2: What were some of those drivers, the main drivers? 112 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the you know, the quote 113 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: unquote machine was what we were really good at is 114 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: one is finding new platforms at the time of emergence, 115 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: So podcasting was podcasting was just starting to emerge around 116 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen, fourteen to sixteen, and most of 117 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: the big broadcasters weren't in it deeply because there was 118 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 3: no money there, and we had no money and the 119 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: cost of production for podcast was very low, and so 120 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 3: it was there was a low barrier of entry for 121 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: us to make a lot of podcasts. So we started 122 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: to make a lot of podcasts, and then you know, 123 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 3: a year later, Facebook Live and Twitter bought Periscope and 124 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 3: it was live streaming on the internet. We got into that, 125 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 3: and so the machine quote unquote, the machine is really 126 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: how do you find emergent platforms, how do you find 127 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: programming that was authentic. I really felt that there's something 128 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 3: with young men in particular that didn't want to be preached, 129 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,559 Speaker 3: preached at or told what you know, the whole notion 130 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 3: of sports Center was dying, where you didn't. You weren't 131 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 3: going to wait until eleven o'clock at night to see 132 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 3: what happened today. You wanted the score and you wanted 133 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: the opinion in the same conversation, in the same context. 134 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 3: And what we built was the ability to clip that post, 135 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 3: that promote that, circulate it, and monetize it well. 136 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: And you also discovered this notion of of creators at 137 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: the core, right I mean, and I mean Portnoy, and 138 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: we'll talk a bit about him, I'm sure you know, 139 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: at the at the center of that. But you also 140 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: set about finding people, not just you found people and 141 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: married them to platforms. 142 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: Is that a yes, we found people and Dave is 143 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 3: really gifted at this is the Dave Gaz like the 144 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: core barstool guys have very good eye for talent. And 145 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 3: we were at a point where, you know, it's kind 146 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: of pre the capital eye influencer world that we live 147 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: in now. But the alchemy of weirdos from you know, 148 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 3: somebody's railing about New Jersey Transit and next thing you know, 149 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: you have Frank the Tank and you're putting Frank the 150 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 3: Tank next to an Alex Rodriguez or Dion Sanders and 151 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: it's it's just weird. 152 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: And so that was very capital confirmed. Yes, yes, yes, 153 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: So we. 154 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: Did a good job of discovering talent, and then we 155 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: did a good job of setting a social norm inside 156 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: the company of a high degree productivity and a high 157 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 3: volume of output. And we had a lot of at bats. 158 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: So because we had so many at bats, it was 159 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: easier for us to get a hit. 160 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: So you had some at baths. I mean, what was 161 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: your impression. 162 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: I just thought, first of all, I thought Erica was 163 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: a great leader. You always come up with wild ideas 164 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: with her, and she never said no, that's not going 165 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: to work. She always tried to figure out, like, Okay, 166 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: how do we think outside the box, how do we 167 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: get to a Yes, let me think on that for 168 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: a couple of days and she'll come back to you 169 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: with really productive feedback. But I mean, I was working 170 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: with Dan, who's very, very talented, the cat right, and 171 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: he had an enormous audience. The brand is so big, Jason, 172 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: that when I would go to colleges to give talks 173 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 2: or whatever, or even walking here in the cities of 174 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: New York, the people would. 175 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: Be like barstool, barstoo. 176 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: I was like holy smokes, Like not the Yankees' nothing. 177 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: It was Barstool, So I knew the power then when 178 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: I joined them. 179 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: And so Eric, I want to go back to the 180 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: pen deal that you mentioned, because that sort of sits 181 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: at the center in terms of the deal making that 182 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: you guys did, So how does that all go down? 183 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 3: So when I joined Barstool, the investors felt that we 184 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: should be able to do I want to say, twenty 185 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 3: five million dollars in revenue in four or five years. 186 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: I think it was five years. We ended up doing 187 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 3: twenty five million dollars revenue in like two and a 188 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 3: half years. So we it just we took off very 189 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 3: very fast. 190 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: And that's mostly adds. 191 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 3: Ads in commerce, so in T shirts, right, merchandise. But 192 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 3: we then built a subscription business, we build a pay 193 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 3: per view business. We were able to spin up businesses 194 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 3: in a way that was very fast because we were 195 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: we were I would say reckless but also highly entrepreneurial. 196 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 3: But long story short, we knew that there were two outcomes. 197 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 3: One was that a media company would buy Barstool Sports. 198 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 3: And then when PASSPO was repealed and gaming and gambling 199 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 3: looked like it would scale in the US, that became 200 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 3: very obvious that that was going to be the path. 201 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: And so this was the Supreme Court decision that basically 202 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: allowed for a life for. 203 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 3: States to regulate sports betting on a market by market basis, 204 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 3: and prior to that it was illegal across the country. 205 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 3: I had always built the business to have optionality for 206 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 3: either path. And it's kind of interesting, like, you know, 207 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 3: Dave was on Fox in September and then the Good 208 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 3: Morning Barstools show launched, like that was actually probably the 209 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 3: right outcome for Barstool Sports is to find a media 210 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: home because the company has intrinsic media DNA. PEN came along. 211 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: Pen needed a brand. They had a large regional casino footprint, 212 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 3: They had infrastructure, and they had a lot of licenses. 213 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 3: They had all the state licenses or most of the 214 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: state licenses at the time, and so in that regard, 215 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: we were a really really good match versus a DraftKings 216 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 3: or a fan Duel or an MGM. Those were companies 217 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 3: we had worked for before. Those were companies we had 218 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 3: supplied a lot of audience to. And the way I 219 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: built to that, or we built to that is, you know, 220 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 3: in year one we had five gambling partners and in 221 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: year two we had two gambling partners, and in year 222 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: three we had one. So I tried to create more 223 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 3: and more competition and a king making of who our 224 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 3: partner was. And then by the time Pen came along, 225 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 3: we had a very very good case study and a 226 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 3: very high volume of proof points of our ability to 227 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 3: transact and our ability to drive customers for someone else. 228 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 3: I think a lot of times and acquisitions, what the 229 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 3: acquireye forgets about is that the acquirer wants customers, and 230 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: you are a conduit to either acquiring, keeping or up 231 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: selling those customers. And we were very cognizant of that. 232 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: It seemed Ben Jason and I were talking offline like 233 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,599 Speaker 2: a dream, and I remember at the time, what a 234 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: brilliant idea. You have the regional footprint with Vegas, and 235 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: you have the bricks and mortar, and you guys have 236 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: with the brand, brand, the gambling and also Pen wasn't cool. 237 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: You guys made it cool, animated relevant. When you trade 238 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 2: on something like that, educate us a little bit. Is 239 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 2: it more top line? Is it a multiple of ibadah 240 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: or just you know, how does that work? 241 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 3: So we were a multiple of ebada So we were 242 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 3: lucky in that we had good EBITDA in the business. 243 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 3: Most of it we reinvested for growth. We were also 244 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 3: looked at on a multiple because we had a very 245 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: healthy and growing AD business and we were growing thousands 246 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 3: of percents or hundreds of percents on an annual basis, 247 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 3: really on every dimension. So if it was ad revenue, 248 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 3: if it was audience growth, if it's downloads on podcasts, 249 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 3: we were trading. We were trading up and exponentially up 250 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: year over year. Now there was a discount because the 251 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 3: brand was controversial and there was like, well what about 252 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 3: what about barstool? What about what about So there was 253 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 3: a discount to that and the partnership. You know that 254 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 3: in good ways and bad ways. You know, we never 255 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 3: and I never set foot in a Pen casino before 256 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: we did the partnership, and I think we didn't know 257 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 3: in some ways what we didn't know going into it. 258 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 3: I think we brought a tremendous amount of value to Pen. 259 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 3: You saw it in the stock price pop, you saw 260 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: it in the audience, you saw it in the establishment 261 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 3: of the brand. Ultimately wasn't a fit. 262 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: When did you know it wasn't work? 263 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 3: It was hard. It just was really the yeah, like 264 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 3: from the jump like it, you know, and too in 265 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: fairness to PEN, they had state and government controlled licenses. 266 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: Like if your business is predicated on a government license, like, 267 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 3: you can't mess that up, like you just you just 268 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 3: think differently, you act differently. So that was really hard 269 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 3: for us because we were more successful and most fulfilled, 270 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: the most audience we were getting. More, the more audience 271 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: we got, the more eyeballs we got, the more people 272 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 3: talked about barstool, the more people looked at us or 273 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: talk talked about us, the better off we were. Penn 274 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 3: was like, could you guys just be quiet, Yeah, we 275 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: will stop talking to you, which was so antithetical to 276 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: how the company was built. The second piece of it 277 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 3: was pen it was really a cash driven business, right, 278 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 3: so they collected you know, they were collecting coins and casinos, right, 279 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 3: And when you collect the cash every night and you 280 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 3: count it, you have a high degree of predictability and 281 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: you have a high degree of certainty around what your 282 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 3: revenue is on a day to day basis. In the 283 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: media businesses, you all know, like it doesn't work that way. 284 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 3: So I felt personally I was spending a lot of 285 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 3: time of predicting what the revenue one month from now 286 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: was going to look like on any given Wednesday, And 287 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: it just was like it just was two really different. 288 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: Beasts if you have a mulligan, and in hindsight, Pen 289 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: never happened. Yeah, knowing what you do now, going back, 290 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 2: what would be the ideal maybe one or two companies 291 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: would be the ideal buyer. 292 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 3: I think, you know, I'm so grateful that Pen did happen. 293 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 3: It changed you know, it changed everyone's life. It freed 294 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 3: Barstool up to go back to being privately owned, gave 295 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 3: you know, a huge reward to the investor, Like it 296 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 3: was a win for you know, most everyone in that equation. 297 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 3: I think Fox is probably the right home for Barstool, 298 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: like always was the right one. To be honest with you, 299 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 3: there was a hot minute we thought it was ESPN. 300 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 3: Obviously that wasn't going to be ESPN after we had 301 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: you know, our one a m disastrous one episode TV show. 302 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 3: But I think Fox was right. I think DraftKings or 303 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: FanDuel would have been probably a better fit with similar 304 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 3: challenges to Penn. But I really do think from a 305 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 3: media perspective, it would have been Fox. 306 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you know, you mentioned this a minute ago. 307 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: The notion of being out there, the notion of being loud, 308 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: even the notion of controversies to some extent was a feature, 309 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: not a buck when it came to Barstool. That must 310 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: have presented challenges for you as definitely a CEO. How 311 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: do you deal with that? 312 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 3: As a manager, you get very thick skin, and you know, 313 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 3: Barstool we were not in crisis, but we created crisis 314 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 3: for other people in our business dealings, which was challenging. 315 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 3: That was tiring. It was trial by fire, which was 316 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 3: a really good business experience. Like not much phases me 317 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 3: in business at this point because we had so much happened. 318 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: You know, Barstool years are like dog years, so it's 319 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: there was a lot that happened in that. But it 320 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 3: was also media is a really interesting business. 321 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: And I mean to take it to the obvious point, 322 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: like there's controversy and then there's like Dave Portnoy controversy, 323 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, and obviously it's like next level, right, he's 324 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: been accused of things that he's denied, you know, Like 325 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: how do you take that on as a CEO? 326 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: Every day everyone at Barstool starts with a blank page 327 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 3: and the camera is on twenty four to seven, and 328 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: most anyone where the camera is on twenty four to seven. 329 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 3: And your job is to make people laugh out of 330 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 3: a blank page every day you were going to step 331 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: in it, like that is a byproduct of the business. 332 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: Like so the first is just the acknowledgment of this 333 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 3: is the world we play in, and this is the 334 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 3: business we chose and the cause that we adopted. I 335 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 3: think on the Dave piece of it, like, I really 336 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 3: loved working with Dave. Dave is brilliant, truly brilliant. He's 337 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 3: a brilliant business person. He has incredible instinct, He is 338 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: very decisive. He also is confident enough to know what 339 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: he doesn't know. And I worked for him, you know, 340 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 3: with him for almost a decade, and I trusted him, 341 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 3: like I truly and you know, I truly trusted him 342 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 3: on every level. And when things got tough and stuff 343 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 3: was you know, thrown at him, we talked a lot 344 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 3: about it, you know, and it's intimate and it's personal 345 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 3: and it's just you know, things people don't necessarily want 346 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 3: to know about one another. But I also felt like 347 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 3: he was super forthright with me, and I think he 348 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 3: also is super forthright with his audience, and there's people 349 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 3: who like that, and there's people who don't like that. 350 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: But I also I felt like I had really partnered 351 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 3: with a quality person who I was going to ride 352 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 3: or die with in that. 353 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: And so, you know, one of the things that I 354 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: think we're both fascinated by is and I've been listening 355 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: to your podcast work, which is really good in part 356 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: because you know, when you walked in, I felt like 357 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: I knew you because it is a very authentic. It 358 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: feels like representation of yourself. Is that just how you've 359 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: always been or is an experience? Is your professional experience? 360 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: Has it made you that way that you are transparent 361 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: and open and like very comfortable with real talk. 362 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 3: Oh no, I think I've always been like that. I mean, 363 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 3: I grew up in a locker room, so it's you know, 364 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 3: I think you're just like that. Yeah, when you're in 365 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 3: the locker room. 366 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: And I love to work, so locker room Alex is 367 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: where like athletes got them to you. 368 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: Really, he's like I had my own. I think I've 369 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 3: always been very curious and I've always had a lot 370 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: of energy, and I think barstool made me more public 371 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 3: than I would have ever been, I would not have 372 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 3: gotten to this place on my own, I don't think, 373 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 3: but I do feel that there is really a lack 374 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 3: of management talent. There's a lack of authenticity, there's a 375 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 3: lack of care for for younger people at work and 376 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 3: passion around being great at work. I think COVID kind 377 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 3: of killed the management. It really killed management, like you 378 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 3: stopped getting feedback, you stopped meeting with people one on one, 379 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 3: you stopped learning in the hallways, and and you know, 380 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: I really believe that work as an apprenticeship. Anything I 381 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: learned is because I apprenticed under great people. And to 382 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 3: have a concept where I can talk about work, share work, 383 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 3: laugh at work, ridicule and push people and confront things 384 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 3: at work, I think is healthy. 385 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: So, Erica, you know, Jason and I were talking a 386 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: little bit a couple of weeks ago about managing talent, 387 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: and you've had some tremendous talent come through barstooping, from 388 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 2: Deon Sanders to Alex Cooper, Pat McAfee and obviously Dan 389 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: Kat If you had a do over, is there anyone 390 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 2: that you wish you could have kept if you thought 391 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: a little bit more proactively or is this the nature 392 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 2: of doing business and people just have to move on 393 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 2: in the next cold. 394 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 3: It's so funny because I think Dave and I always 395 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: used to talk about it like an athlete contract, right 396 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 3: where you get a rookie and the rookie contract might 397 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 3: not be great, maybe it is great in rare air 398 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: and a few but you start, you get your first 399 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 3: contract or your first gig if you're a regular person, 400 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 3: and it's all about how you perform in that first term. 401 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 3: And we were very good about ripping contracts up and 402 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: creating new ones. And you saw that progression with Alex 403 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 3: Cooper in particular, because that was very public. But I 404 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: don't know that there's anyone who got away. There are 405 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 3: a lot of talent I'm glad we missed on, to 406 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 3: be honest with you, like I'm more grateful for the 407 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 3: people we passed on. I also think, you know, it's funny. 408 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 3: I deal with this now at work. When a talent leaves, 409 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 3: there's a feeling I think, a failure of like, oh 410 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 3: they got away, or we shouldn't let them go, But 411 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: it's really like, hey, they just graduated to something bigger 412 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: and this place. We were very comfortable with Barstool being 413 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 3: a springboard to go do other things. I think the 414 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 3: world has changed where when you're out on your own 415 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 3: and the cold versus you're in a stable where there's 416 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 3: constant promotion and cross promotion and instigation is very hard 417 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 3: to make it. 418 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: That's very much like sports. I mean, contrasts are up 419 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 2: to get expensive. The other part that you guys did 420 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: really well. So you had a great farm system, and 421 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: you had great scouting, whether it came. 422 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: From you and data. 423 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 3: There's always a new crop. There's always a new crop, and. 424 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: So how do you translate that? Because as I understand, 425 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 1: I want you to, you know, bring us and our 426 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: audience up to speed on what you're doing at food 427 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: fifty two because clearly talent also at the talent and 428 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: content are clearly at the center of that. So what 429 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: are the lessons you take? How do you approach that talent? 430 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: It's food talent essentially rather than sports. So what's the 431 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: playbook there? 432 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 3: Talent is succession, right, so it's how do you think 433 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 3: about who's at the top of their game now and 434 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 3: how do you feed the next generation of that? And 435 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 3: that could be if you're an accountant or an FP 436 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 3: and a guy, or you're a media person, or you 437 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 3: work in advertising, or you work in manufacturing, whatever, it 438 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 3: doesn't matter you work in content. I really think about 439 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 3: it that you've got to give talent every possible piece 440 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 3: of ammunition you have. You have to offer something to 441 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 3: them in the power of the parent brand. I think 442 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 3: a lot of times, you know, you read about this 443 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 3: with Unwell and the Alex Earl versus the Alex Cooper 444 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 3: of it all is like, what is Unwell offering to 445 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 3: other talent outside of Alex Cooper in Unwell? Like, that's 446 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 3: a big question. What's the value proposition? Why is someone 447 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 3: part of this network versus another network? I think media 448 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 3: people and media networks miss that. But so long as 449 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 3: you give talent freedom, you have their back when they 450 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 3: mess up, because if you're in the public eye and 451 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 3: you're making content on a daily basis, you're going to 452 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,479 Speaker 3: mess up. And then three is the money shows up 453 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: you can have, then you can play. But you always 454 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 3: need to be thinking about who's the future. You know, 455 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 3: who's the next generation? How do you start? Competition is 456 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 3: so healthy. I mean you see this in sports, like competition, 457 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 3: whether you're in a test kitchen at Food fifty two 458 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 3: or you're a fellowship of creators in my world at 459 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 3: home and life and food or you're part of barstool 460 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 3: is a great thing. 461 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: So you mentioned that you ran into the Barstow opportunity 462 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: by raising capital and then it's shifted to something else. 463 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: So I'm going to do a little role play with you. Yeah, 464 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: my friend Jason here, he's a cio. He runs a 465 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 2: family office and he has a lot of cash, okay, 466 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: and he's looking to invest. Can you give him a 467 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: pitch on why he should invest? And what exactly is 468 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: food fifty two? 469 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 4: Oh? 470 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 3: Absolutely so. Food fifty two started around the same time 471 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 3: as Glossier, and the whole era of the blog turns 472 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: into a little shop, and the shop turns into a product, 473 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 3: and the product turns into a movement, right, and Food 474 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 3: fifty two did this in the subject of table and 475 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 3: home and food, really food as the center of a 476 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 3: well lived life. What then happened is Food fifty two 477 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 3: started curating incredible products from all sorts of artisans all 478 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 3: around the world and had a very particular aesthetic and 479 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 3: a very elevated esthetic, but also for the first time 480 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: had a real vision for home cooks versus chefs or restauranteurs. 481 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 3: Or professionals. It was really about serving the at home 482 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: cook Food media has exploded since that time, and what 483 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 3: I really believe is that there's a couple things that 484 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 3: make food fifty two worthy of investments. If you want 485 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 3: to give me money, I'll take it. 486 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: He's got a lot of it. That's great, I love it, clearly. 487 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 3: But essentially, when you think about home and you think 488 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 3: about food, and you think about table or decor, lighting 489 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: or textiles or furniture, doesn't matter. The Internet eats the middleman, right, 490 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 3: and so you're going to have the Amazons of the world, 491 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 3: or maybe a Target of the world, and you'd have 492 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 3: a Creton barrel or pottery barn, and then you're going 493 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 3: to have things that are very boutique and bespoke, and 494 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 3: the pieces in the middle aren't really going to exist. 495 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 3: And what I think is very interesting about food fifty 496 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 3: two is that if you create a content engine that 497 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 3: surfaces artisans and makers and interior designers and stylists and 498 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 3: fashionable women, and you service and put products underneath that, 499 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 3: you can create a whole ecosystem that has a lot 500 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 3: of cachet, that has a lot of differentiation, that has 501 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 3: a lot of aspiration and a lot of appeal, and 502 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: you can do so in a way that you're not 503 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 3: dependent on Facebook and you're not dependent on Google, that 504 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 3: you're creating an ongoing conversation with people. So I'll give 505 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 3: you an example. I created thing called work like a Girl. 506 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 3: How was at barstool, everyone accusing barsool of being misogynistic. 507 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 3: So I was like, you know what, like that, I'm 508 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 3: gonna make T shirts that say work like a girl. 509 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 3: And that became my brand. And then last summer I 510 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: was like, you know what, I'm going to create this 511 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 3: into a Slack group. We now have thousands of women 512 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 3: who are giving each other advice all day long about 513 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: getting a job, managing in your job, finding a new job, 514 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,479 Speaker 3: HR questions, management questions, AI questions, you name it. It's 515 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 3: a hive and you can surface all sorts of products 516 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 3: into that because we're in an ongoing conversation that's professional women. 517 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: You could see the same thing with stay at home moms. 518 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 3: You could see the same thing with interior designers. And 519 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 3: the ability to put products into those environments in a 520 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 3: way that's organic. I think will ultimately win in terms 521 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 3: of conversion. 522 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: And then how do you make money? 523 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 3: By selling those products and having really multiple lines of revenue. 524 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 3: So if you look at you know, we are just 525 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 3: about to launch with Porsche, so Porsche wants to be 526 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 3: associated with our audience. We also are featuring artisanal products 527 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 3: that we hand, you know, hand collect or curate. We 528 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: also manufacture and develop lighting and textiles and furniture, which 529 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 3: so there's three lines of business in one Instagram story. 530 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 3: And that to me is an interesting business, which is 531 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 3: not that dissimilar from the barstool business. 532 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: And so how do you level food fifty two up? 533 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: I mean, because when you came in, you were coming 534 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: in at least a turnaround. Based on listening to your podcast, 535 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: it's a turnaround big time. Are you attracted to turnaround? Like, 536 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: what was it about? 537 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: I don't know. Now that I'm in the middle of one, 538 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not sure I'm gonna do this again. 539 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: But I liked the challenge of serving twenty five to 540 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 3: fifty four women. I was like, that's an interesting demographic. 541 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 3: They have a lot of pull there on. They're underpenetrated 542 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 3: in a way, they're underserved. So I liked that it's 543 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 3: not a viral crowd in the way that an eighteen 544 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: to thirty four. Man is a viral crowd. Truth, so 545 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 3: how you build for them is very different. I thought 546 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 3: that was intellectually very a lot of spending power, huge 547 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 3: amount of spending power, huge amount of influence, and huge 548 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 3: amount of influence on other people. You look at youth sports, 549 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: it's the moms. You look at what's happening in the home, 550 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: it's the moms. You look at a family's finances, it's 551 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 3: typically the mom. And then the second piece on the 552 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 3: turnaround of it all, I'm curious to learn, Like if 553 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: you look, you know, I've been here a year. I 554 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 3: know more about manufacturing. I know more about international shipping, 555 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 3: I know more about product development. I know more about 556 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 3: e commerce than I knew coming in is by a 557 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 3: factor of a thousand and so regardless, if I can 558 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: make this thing turn around, and you know, I've taken 559 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 3: a huge amount of cost out of the company. I've 560 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 3: restructured the company, I've refocused the company, I've rehired the 561 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 3: majority of the company. I've totally changed the DNA. It 562 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 3: may work or it may not. I think it will work. 563 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 3: But now I know media, I know men, I know women, 564 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 3: and I know manufacturing and it's so I feel that 565 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 3: I'm more viable because of it, because I've been able 566 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 3: to now study different types of business, different consumers, and 567 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 3: different business models. 568 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 2: So, Erica, you made the analogy about sports. You go 569 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: from running this company Borstool again sub five million to 570 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: north of two fifty in revenue in like eight years 571 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: or so, you're basically the top free agent in the market. 572 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: How does that at this opportunity to come because I 573 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 2: would imagine that you would have many companies, many headhunters 574 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: after you. How do you land a fifty? 575 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I think everyone thought I would stay in sports, 576 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 3: and I think everyone thought I would stay in gambling 577 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 3: in particular, and I got a lot of calls. But 578 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 3: what I I was a little bit scarred leaving Barstool 579 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 3: from the big company of it all, where I was like, 580 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 3: I don't I don't know. I don't know that I'm 581 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 3: going to Disney or I don't know that I'm going 582 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 3: to be a cog and a really big machine. I 583 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 3: also didn't want to compete against Barstool because I still 584 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 3: had like so much of I'm a Barstool girl, So 585 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 3: I'm like, I still have so much affection for that 586 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: brand in the business. And I also felt, you know, 587 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 3: like life is short and I want to try something 588 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 3: completely different. The investor behind Food fifty two is the 589 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 3: same investor as Barstool Sports. Sure, yes, so that made 590 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 3: it also easy. I had joined the board of Food 591 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 3: fifty two in twenty twenty three, so I also got 592 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 3: a look firsthand at what it looked like before I 593 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 3: got in there, which I like, you know, I sit 594 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,959 Speaker 3: on the board of Ice, I'm on the board of Axon, 595 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 3: I sit on the board of the Pace. So it's 596 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 3: great to see companies. It kind of gives you a 597 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 3: sense of where the opportunity and where the challenges. And 598 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: I felt that there was a lot of upside if 599 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 3: I could, if I could turn this around, and I 600 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 3: hadn't done a turnaround in the way that this company 601 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 3: needs a turnaround, and that was a good It was 602 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 3: a good thing that would scare me. 603 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: So as someone who's been on the byside and the 604 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: cell side throughout your career, Like, what are the sorts 605 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: of deals that you're looking at? I mean, do you 606 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: grow through acquisition? 607 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 3: Here? 608 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,719 Speaker 1: Are you a and are those content acquisitions? Are they 609 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: talent like what commerce? Like? 610 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 3: Where you listening food fifty two will grow organically. Food 611 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,719 Speaker 3: fifty two made two acquisitions before I got there. They 612 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 3: acquired a brand called Dance and they acquired a company 613 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 3: called Schoolhouse. During COVID, the synergies between the brands hadn't 614 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 3: been recognized. So I'm more of a try to grow organically. 615 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 3: That's how I've seen things. 616 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 2: Now. 617 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 3: If you look at the PLL or you look at 618 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 3: those Vice is a company that's finding its way through 619 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 3: JV partnerships, right, and PLL in a large large part 620 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 3: is growing organically. 621 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: But also the Premier Lacross League, sorry, the. 622 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 3: Premier Lacross League, they're also growing through acquisition. Axon grows 623 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: through acquisitions. So I'm more of a grow organic drive. 624 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 3: Build a vision, you know, see a vision, build a vision, 625 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 3: execute against a vision, have multiple lines of revenue, do 626 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 3: so on a low cost basis, and then diversify. That's 627 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 3: more my approach. I do think acquisition can be an 628 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 3: incredible accelerant. I think jvs are tough. 629 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you know, interestingly, you know the proverbial 630 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: seat you're sitting in. Melody hops inside in there a 631 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: bit ago and she put on what I thought Alex 632 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: was a masterclass and being a board member. What are 633 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: you like as a board Like, what what do you 634 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: what do you feel like you bring to the party, 635 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: what's the what's your sort of obviously it varies board 636 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: to board, but like what are you looking to get 637 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: out of that and what are you looking to give? 638 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 3: Hmmm, I don't probably not as good as a board 639 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 3: member as Melanie hops someone. 640 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: Well, I think she's probably the best board member. It's 641 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: like the history of boards. But like, so that's a 642 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: good thing to aspire to. We all aspire to that. 643 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 3: I'm not I ask a thousand questions. I'm very curious. 644 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 3: I like management. I am not a I'm not a 645 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 3: pomp and circumstance board member, Like I appreciate public boards 646 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 3: and private company boards obviously super different. But I'm more 647 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 3: interested in how can you represent the needs and wants 648 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 3: and also the protecting the shareholders, but also how do 649 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 3: you help the company see something that they have but 650 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 3: they can't see from within? And so I'm a high 651 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 3: energy I guess I'm a high energy board member. I'm 652 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 3: very passionate. I have a lot of opinions. I think 653 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 3: a lot of times in a board in board sessions, 654 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 3: people get very pc and they get very quiet, and 655 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 3: I think, you know, a hard part I always say, 656 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 3: that's just as an operator and I have boards, is 657 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 3: there's nothing worse than the board member who does nothing 658 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 3: for you and says nothing during the meeting. I hate 659 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 3: those people. So I'm like, I never want to be 660 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 3: one of those people. So I try to be the 661 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 3: opposite of that. 662 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: All right, So now's the time that we get to 663 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: talk about one of my favorite subjects, lacrosse. In your 664 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: proverbial seat, Paul Rabel sat, he's a friend of all 665 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: of ours. You played lacrosse at Colby College very successfully, 666 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,399 Speaker 1: so you obviously love the game. How do you link 667 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: up with Paul and Mike Rabel, his brother who you know, 668 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: created the PLL. They have grown as you, as you mentioned, 669 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: through acquisition. How does that come about? And what's your 670 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: relationship to the business of lacrosse. 671 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 3: So Paul and Mike Rabel showed up at Barstool Sports 672 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen. Well, and we had two conference rooms 673 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 3: and you know, at that point, probably one hundred guys 674 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 3: in like dirty sweats, and the conference room table didn't 675 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 3: hold up where if you put your elbow on it, 676 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 3: it just fell off, like everything was in the constant 677 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 3: state of falling apart of Barsol. And they showed up, 678 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 3: because that's a metaphor. Yes, So they showed up, and 679 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 3: Paul was playing for the MLL, which was a competitive 680 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 3: league at the time, and I believe he had a 681 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 3: large sponsorship with Warrior Lacrosse, which was owned by New Balance, 682 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 3: and they were looking for advice on how they could 683 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 3: get out of that, how how how could this thing 684 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 3: be created called the PLL Wow. And they showed up 685 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 3: and we were supposed to meet for a half hour. 686 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 3: We ended up meeting for two and a half hours. 687 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 3: And I've been connected to them ever since. 688 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: So what were you were you thinking, all, Right, this 689 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: is a viable option, this isn't a Did you think 690 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: they could create a whole new league? 691 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 3: Definitely, Because that summer when they came to see me, 692 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 3: we had just written. Jordie, one of the barstool guys, 693 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 3: had just written a blog on the conditions of the 694 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 3: MLL players, which were pretty embarrassing, you know, like it 695 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 3: was one pizza to be shared across thirty guys. They 696 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 3: were making like negative fifty bucks every. 697 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: Day, were literally like going home with fans and like 698 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: sleeping on their cat. It was awful. 699 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 3: It was awful. And Paul was the first million dollar player, 700 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 3: and he had this big lucrative contract, but the big 701 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 3: lucrative contract was tied to the league, and so I 702 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 3: thought it was an interesting problem to solve, which is 703 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 3: he had a bird in hand, which was a big sponsorship, 704 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 3: the first time anyone in that sport had been recognized 705 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 3: at that financial level, and he wanted to give it 706 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 3: up to start something new. And I thought it was 707 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 3: very brave. I thought it was ballsy. And I also 708 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 3: felt that, you know, we were getting Barstool was getting 709 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 3: really a first hand look at sports because we were 710 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 3: doing so much. You know, this was early days for 711 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 3: you know, not early early Barstool, but early in my 712 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 3: time at Barsceol, and we were seeing, you know, hockey 713 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: is kind of lagging. Hockey is a very insular media 714 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 3: culture around it. Football was starting to rage, not the 715 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 3: way it is now, but in a way that was 716 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 3: was big. Baseball was you know, a little sleepy, and 717 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 3: I really felt that when I looked at the energy, 718 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 3: you know, you're a great example of this, the amount 719 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 3: of money, time and effort people will spend on their 720 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 3: kids come across is bananas, Yes, bunkers bananas. So I'm like, 721 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 3: there's an opportunity there. Yeah, yeah, and they've been chasing it. 722 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: I mean it is amazing. And we've talked about this 723 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: in the context of lacrosse. I mean it really is 724 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: like a rod being like, you know what, I think 725 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: there's a better baseball league that I can you just 726 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: be like this majorly crazy, crazy to think. 727 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 2: About Bana savannas. 728 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, really cool. 729 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 3: But you had a lot of those ideas. I mean 730 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 3: that baseball should I when we were working together, and 731 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 3: baseball should be more entertaining. You've got to commingle the 732 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 3: entertainment and the game like it's and. 733 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 2: They've done that. 734 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 3: They have, They've done it like they have. 735 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 2: And we talked about youth sports a lot podcasts, and 736 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 2: it's a forty billion dollars opportunity and it's so fragmented, 737 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 2: and I always go to like, how do we also 738 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: make sure that like my mom, who couldn't afford you know, 739 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 2: big ticket items, how do we grow the sport but 740 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 2: also make it affordable for I think that's going to 741 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 2: be the rub we have to make it because we 742 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 2: don't want to lose great players to other sports because 743 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 2: they can't afford it. It's just not good enough. 744 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: And so how do you grow it? Again, asking for 745 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: a friend, how do you grow lacrosse? 746 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 3: I think you have to go to the youth. Yeah, 747 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 3: you need more kids preferring lacrosse. Lacrosse is low barrier 748 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 3: of entry sport. You know, if you look at street 749 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 3: lacrosse and Harlem like perfect example, like it's not if 750 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 3: you can pick up a basketball, you can pick up 751 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 3: a lacrosse stick and ball like it shouldn't be cosper. 752 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: There's also been an expansion into you know, there's now 753 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: the WLL, the Women's League. I would imagine as a former. 754 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 3: I'm passionate about the women's league and the women's lacrosse. 755 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 3: The coolest thing about the WLL is they will be 756 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 3: bigger stars than the men. Really, yes, because they they 757 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 3: get it, they want it. They are captivating on camera. 758 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 3: They Charlotte North and what she does for young girls 759 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 3: playing lacrosse is epic. And they're also new and I 760 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 3: you know, this is my thing for which I've been 761 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 3: saying to Paul and Mike forever. This is what I'm 762 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 3: like on the board, is like you who is your 763 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:52,359 Speaker 3: Dennis Rodman? Yeah, Like, who's the jerk who's creating controversy. 764 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 3: It's the same conversation with WNBA, Like, the more players 765 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 3: showing color off the court in a way that's real 766 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 3: and relatable and impassioned, the better off the sport's going 767 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 3: to be. 768 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: Well, I mean to the point of they get it. 769 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen this through the links. You know, 770 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: we've seen it in college sports especially. You think about 771 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: women's college basketball and the stars that you know, not 772 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: just Caitlin but Paige Becker's when she was at yukon 773 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: jiw Watkins at USC. I mean, these are stars in 774 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: part because they have cultivated that in a much more 775 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: methodical and serious leg job, right right they did? They 776 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: just see they see the potential there. 777 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 2: Now, going back to food fifty two, I'm curious, where 778 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,959 Speaker 2: do you see this in the next three to five years. 779 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 2: In a perfect world, do we talk about barstore world totally? 780 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 3: I think in a perfect world, food fifty two finds 781 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 3: a home inside of a bigger company and it brings 782 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 3: the engine to bear and that may be something that 783 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 3: should happen in seven years, and you know, or it 784 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 3: happens in three years or you know, but I think 785 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 3: it should be part of something bigger potentially. 786 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,479 Speaker 2: Not to give any secret a way, but what type 787 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 2: of company you think. 788 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 3: Could be a retail company that's looking for product differentiation, 789 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 3: or is looking for category expansion, or is looking for 790 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 3: a new customer set, or you could see, you know, 791 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 3: more and more media companies are looking for food and 792 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 3: home and life content, and so they're also looking for 793 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 3: diverse lines of revenue, and they're looking to expand e 794 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 3: commerce beyond affiliate. So I kind of see those two 795 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 3: paths as opportunities for this company. 796 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 2: So I have no doubt you're going to crush it 797 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 2: in the next three five seven years with food fifty two. 798 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 2: I always wonder this. You're very young, Yeah, you have 799 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 2: a lot of experience. Is there a dream job out 800 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,360 Speaker 2: there five seven years from now that's out there that 801 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 2: you kind of think about a little bit, but you 802 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,959 Speaker 2: haven't leaned into it yet. Is there one job? 803 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 3: Oh, I think I'm going to be like a college professor. 804 00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: Oh really, yep. 805 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 3: I think I would teach business or I teach market 806 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 3: I'm passionate about work like a girl. I could see 807 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 3: doing work like a girl for a long time. I think, 808 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 3: you know, as in the Middle East last winter for 809 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 3: a sport a cook conference, and it was fascinating to me. 810 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 3: It was all men. It was very well done, and 811 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 3: I'm like, God, if you could just create a conference 812 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 3: for women around culture and home and lifestyle, I'm interested. 813 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 3: That's a business I would build after this, for sure. 814 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 3: So I'm interested in that. 815 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: So one of the things that strikes me as we 816 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: start to wrap up and we've got rapid fire questions 817 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 1: coming at you in a second, but this notion that 818 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: it feels like your brand again, listening to your podcast, 819 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: even listening to this conversation, like you're about real talk. 820 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: I mean the title of your book. I want to 821 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,720 Speaker 1: make sure I get this right. Nobody cares about your career. 822 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: Why failure is good? The great ones play hurt and 823 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: other hard truths like this is who you are. Give 824 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: us some hard truths that you've. 825 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 3: H I mean, failure, it's all failure. The better you 826 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,720 Speaker 3: can be failing is the better you'll be winning. 827 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:09,399 Speaker 1: You struck out a bunch of time. 828 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 2: It was so funny, one hundred percent, Like I'm fifth 829 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,919 Speaker 2: of all time in the history of strikeouts, right, Yeah, 830 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 2: it's cool that Reggie Jackson, my buddy's number one, But 831 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 2: there's four people in the estue of mankind that have 832 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 2: struck out more. And I think that one of my 833 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 2: small competitive advantages in business is that baseball is a 834 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 2: game of failure, and if you fail seventy percent of 835 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 2: the time, you end up in Cooperstown in the Hall 836 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 2: of Fame. Yeah, So the ability to get up to 837 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 2: bat with optimism after's so much failure, I think it's 838 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:37,240 Speaker 2: a real gift. 839 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. I wish people would put themselves out there more 840 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,320 Speaker 3: and younger. If you look at the percentages in baseball, 841 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 3: they're pathetic. I mean, it's so infinitismally small, and the 842 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 3: reality is you're one of the greatest successes of all time. 843 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 3: And I really think the same thing is true. It's 844 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 3: so it's you got to put yourself out there. You 845 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 3: have to try, you have to take initiative. I think 846 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 3: people are failing to be generous and generous in their questions, 847 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 3: generous in their thinking, generous in their effort. And the 848 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 3: more generous you can be with yourself in putting yourself 849 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 3: into whatever it is you're doing, and the more chances 850 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 3: you take one of them is going to. 851 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: Hit yeah, all right, we're gonna go the rapid fire. Okay, 852 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: all right, so ten questions. We're going to bounce it 853 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: back and forth. So just like first thing that comes 854 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: to your mind, one word to describe your deal making style. 855 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:42,720 Speaker 3: Fast? 856 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,879 Speaker 2: What's more important your data or your gut gut? 857 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: Who's your dream deal making partner? In what way? 858 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 4: Like? 859 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: In how wherever you take it? 860 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 3: Who's my dream deal Dave Portnoy? 861 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 2: There you go. What's the best piece of advice you 862 00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 2: received on deal making or business? 863 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 3: That no is the second best answer to yes. 864 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: What's the worst advice you've been given? 865 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 3: Hang in there. 866 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: What's your hype song before you go to into a 867 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 1: big meeting or negotiation? 868 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 3: Ooh, this is an excellent one. 869 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:17,480 Speaker 1: I have two. 870 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,439 Speaker 3: One is I'm Coming Out by Diana Ross and two 871 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,839 Speaker 3: is The Velt by Dead Mouse. 872 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:23,399 Speaker 1: Wow. 873 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 2: You can only watch one sport for the rest of 874 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 2: your life? Which one is it? 875 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:29,360 Speaker 3: Tennis? 876 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,320 Speaker 1: What team do you want to see win a championship 877 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,880 Speaker 1: more than any I shuld you're a tennis fan, you 878 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: could say a person, team or person? 879 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 3: I mean Carlos Carlos outgraz he sees one a lot. 880 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 1: But yeah, we love Carlito it's so great. 881 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 2: You're obviously now running a food company. I had your 882 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 2: last meal. What would that meal be? 883 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,400 Speaker 3: Oh, that'd be like New Haven pizza and blueberries. 884 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: Oh, I gotta try that all right, Eric, Thank you, 885 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: really really good to spend the time. Do you thank 886 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: thank you. 887 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 4: The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals. 888 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 4: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. 889 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 4: This show was produced by Anna Maazarakis, Stacey Wong, Lizzie Phillip, 890 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 4: and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples. 891 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 4: Matt Medulla was our sound operator. Our booker is Paige Keffer. 892 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,799 Speaker 4: David E. Ravella is our managing editor. Our executive producers 893 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 4: are Jason Kelly, Amy Keene, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Regina Delia, 894 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 4: Kelly Leferrier, and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head 895 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 4: of Podcasts. Special thanks to Rachel Carnivale, Elena Los Angeles 896 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 4: and Nick Silva. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography. 897 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 4: Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from 898 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:02,320 Speaker 4: Jacqueline Kessler. Camera operation by Zuma Hussein Ryan Cavatero and 899 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,799 Speaker 4: Holly Fisher. Our gaffer is Julia Gweski, and our grip 900 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,360 Speaker 4: is Emily Wolowski. Katia Vanoy is our video editor. You 901 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,800 Speaker 4: can listen to the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or 902 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 4: wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune into 903 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,399 Speaker 4: the video Companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. 904 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.