Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
Speaker 1: and today on the show we're talking about animals with
Speaker 1: missing body parts. Don't worry. These critters haven't been mutilated,
Speaker 1: but rather through evolution, they've ditched certain appendages. Legs don't
Speaker 1: need them, wings forget about it. Tails lose them. Sometimes
Speaker 1: efficiency requires sacrifice and body parts have got to go.
Speaker 1: Discover this and more as we answer the age old
Speaker 1: question how many eggs is too many eggs? Joining me
Speaker 1: today's front of the show producer at iHeartRadio, Joe el Monique.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Hi, Katie, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1: I am so excited. We are actually in the studio together,
Speaker 1: which has not happened in over.
Speaker 2: Two years since the beforetime. Times.
Speaker 1: We're making direct eye contact. Basically, it's super weird.
Speaker 2: We're really trying to hold it together. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: It's nice though, to be back here with you. You know,
Speaker 2: I imagine there will be one there's always one bird.
Speaker 2: I think in all of our conversations.
Speaker 1: You're so lucky. This time there's no birds. There's no birds.
Speaker 2: I feel very lucky.
Speaker 1: You're you're super lucky. Today it was between this and
Speaker 1: the All Birds All Swarms episode, and uh, you know
Speaker 1: this one, this one just by a very thin margin
Speaker 1: one out. So yeah, Instead we were talking about animals
Speaker 1: who are missing like a key body part that you
Speaker 1: think they should probably have.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's kind of exciting. Yeah, they got me thinking
Speaker 2: about what body part humans would lose.
Speaker 1: First, Yeah, what do we use the least of our
Speaker 1: major body parts?
Speaker 2: What's the one organ that don't know? What is there
Speaker 2: for the tendex appendix appendix. I'm surprised if that hasn't started,
Speaker 2: like just missing it.
Speaker 1: Just falling out, feeling it was not.
Speaker 2: Necessary for anything that we can decipher, so you chuck
Speaker 2: it out of their body.
Speaker 1: There might be something too, like I keep hearing things
Speaker 1: about like, well maybe it has some immune function. We're
Speaker 1: not sure.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right. I keep hearing our thumbs are going
Speaker 2: to get longer because of how we use our phone.
Speaker 1: Ah, thumb longer. Yeah, I could use longer thumb.
Speaker 2: The longer thumb would be helpful, It would be really helpful. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but losing a part seems like I feel like I
Speaker 2: need all the things I want both eyes at least,
Speaker 2: you know, the ten finger seems essential. I mean there's
Speaker 2: obviously people have been able to adapt and make changes
Speaker 2: and adjust two missing body parts. But like, as a species,
Speaker 2: if we were like we.
Speaker 1: Just don't need that anymore, I feel like maybe one
Speaker 1: toe could.
Speaker 2: Go, which I I would like all the middle ones,
Speaker 2: the middle ones, yeah, for balance.
Speaker 1: Right, like yeah, but you know, yeah, no, I can't
Speaker 1: think of a body part that I would just want
Speaker 1: to part with voluntarily. But yeah, I mean it is
Speaker 1: interesting when you look at animals who are missing parts
Speaker 1: that you think they should have. I mean a good
Speaker 1: example is like a snubnose monkey. That is a primate
Speaker 1: who's a relative of ours, and their nose is just gone.
Speaker 1: I mean they have their nasal cavities, but the nose
Speaker 1: itself is gone because they live in cold, high altitudes
Speaker 1: and so the sort of frostbite that they'd get from
Speaker 1: the nose is not really worth having the nose, so
Speaker 1: instead they just have like a you know, just these
Speaker 1: little holes in their face. They're still cute. I like
Speaker 1: them still. But our first interesting animal that we are
Speaker 1: going to talk about is a moth actually, and what
Speaker 1: is like the main defining feature of a butterfly or
Speaker 1: a moth. That's right. Yeah, it's the thing that differentiates
Speaker 1: them from a caterpillar in sort of a simplistic way.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they're wings, but some moths are wingless. Specifically,
Speaker 1: the females of a few families of moths have almost
Speaker 1: no wings. They they actually technically do have wings, but
Speaker 1: they are teeny tiny and they don't.
Speaker 2: Work their little baby wings, little baby wings.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like remember a bug story, the classic
Speaker 1: pixar ants who have sort of a worker's revolution, and
Speaker 1: then there's the caterpillar who metamorphosizes into a beautiful butterfly,
Speaker 1: and then it's funny because he's got these tiny wings.
Speaker 2: That chunky caterpillar baby wings.
Speaker 1: It's this, it's the same thing because this moth has
Speaker 1: is very chunky and it has tiny wings that they
Speaker 1: don't even look like wings. They look like little rabbit ears,
Speaker 1: which is cute.
Speaker 2: They do look like little rabbit ears. It sort of
Speaker 2: reminded me on Halloween when girls dress up as very
Speaker 2: but they have like little baby wings. Yeah, these wings
Speaker 2: would not propel you up into the air. They are
Speaker 2: clearly just ornamental. Are these ornamental? In some are they
Speaker 2: designed in the attraction process.
Speaker 1: No, that's what's interesting. Also, when I was a kid
Speaker 1: and there was like the little tiny fairy wings, I
Speaker 1: would get frustrated because I really wanted to see big wings,
Speaker 1: because like that is not going to support a human.
Speaker 2: No. No, And we can see what a proper proportion
Speaker 2: of wing to body looks like in nature. It's why
Speaker 2: dragons have those big giant wings. Exactly. Think all of
Speaker 2: that mass is gonna need a lot of air support. Exactly.
Speaker 1: Give me some big pterosaur wings please.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like million little dt ones that come just
Speaker 2: out of your back. It's only two and not four,
Speaker 2: which doesn't make sense directionally, you're gonna have a lot
Speaker 2: more issues with two as opposed to if you have
Speaker 2: that second layer down low like a butterfly. Uh yeah,
Speaker 2: wings should be proportionate, which is making this more confusing.
Speaker 2: Why what happened to their wings?
Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting is that the males of this species,
Speaker 1: these wingless moths, actually do have wings.
Speaker 2: Sexism.
Speaker 1: Oh man, patriarchy is everywhere. We need moth feminists. So
Speaker 1: they look like typical normal moths. They just you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of plain months. These are winter moths. And
Speaker 1: the ones that are pictured there are these just kind
Speaker 1: of grayish brown moths. They look normal except for the
Speaker 1: females that have these adorable little fluffy baby wings and
Speaker 1: then a huge, chunky body. So this actually occurs in
Speaker 1: a few species in the family geometrod uh And so
Speaker 1: there are some species in which the females do have wings,
Speaker 1: but a few, which are the ones that we're talking about,
Speaker 1: where the females don't have these wings or have these
Speaker 1: little stubby wings. One cute fact, this is a little
Speaker 1: bit of a tangent, but it's too cute not to
Speaker 1: talk about. There's a species of geometric moth where the
Speaker 1: females have typical wings, but the caterpillars in this species
Speaker 1: will cover themselves in little pieces of plants or flowers,
Speaker 1: plant matter to camouflage themselves. So I've sent you a photo.
Speaker 1: There's like this thing that looks like kind of a
Speaker 1: weird I guess like las or Bouquet, whoa withered flower
Speaker 1: petals there's a caterpillar under there.
Speaker 2: I fashion that was like, what is this flower here?
Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out what this flower was doing,
Speaker 2: and then oh, my god, that's so weird. I never
Speaker 2: think there's a bug in there. It does live like locator.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love this one. Anyways, back onto the
Speaker 1: topic of the wingless moths. Species of geometric moths who
Speaker 1: do have wingless females include the winter moths, bruce spanworm,
Speaker 1: and the fall cankerworm moths. So again, the males of
Speaker 1: these species look pretty typical, pretty normal, they're pretty small,
Speaker 1: they have a wingspan of a couple of centimeters. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it is really interesting that this has evolved in these species.
Speaker 1: The winter moth is found in Europe and mate in
Speaker 1: winter and in cold temperature, and the bruce span worm
Speaker 1: in faulknkerworm does the same in North America. So this
Speaker 1: is actually a key detail that all these moths prefer
Speaker 1: to mate in cold temperatures, and so this is the
Speaker 1: first clue into like why these females don't have these wings.
Speaker 1: Most insects actually avoid the winter. The male moths of
Speaker 1: these species have adapted stronger flight muscles in the males
Speaker 1: to be able to flutter around in cold temperatures, and
Speaker 1: so by adapting to this difficult time, they avoid some
Speaker 1: amount of predation from birds. And you know there are
Speaker 1: bird species who are migratory they go in winter in
Speaker 1: warmer climates. And so while there may be some winter
Speaker 1: birds who remain their avoiding predation from this whole segment
Speaker 1: of birds who are like, this is too cold, we're leaving.
Speaker 1: The females, meanwhile, have gone sort of in this opposite
Speaker 1: direction of the males in terms of like the males
Speaker 1: have these like very strong wings, females ditch the wings.
Speaker 1: Females ditch the wings and they will just sit on
Speaker 1: trees and excrete male attracting pheromones, basically making the males
Speaker 1: come to them. And the females are absolutely crammed with eggs.
Speaker 1: They have almost one hundred and fifty eggs in their
Speaker 1: tiny little bodies. So she has sacrificed both the size
Speaker 1: of her internal organs and her wings and ability to
Speaker 1: fly for sheer volume of eggs. So these males will
Speaker 1: just flutter around, congregate around females mate with them, and
Speaker 1: it's great. The female doesn't have to do anyth thing
Speaker 1: other than sit there basically store these eggs, and then
Speaker 1: lay the eggs once they're fertilized.
Speaker 2: Amazing. Here's why I like her plan. Okay, first, she
Speaker 2: was like, men not only do you have to come
Speaker 2: to me, but like, please leave when you're done. This
Speaker 2: is my house and it's cool here. It's clearly too
Speaker 2: cold for you. I don't want to inconvenience you, just
Speaker 2: get on. I love that she's like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: do this by myself. One hundred and fifty eggs a lot,
Speaker 2: like at one time, seems like a lot. But if
Speaker 2: you think about it, does she only have to do
Speaker 2: this once? Can? She is a one and done situation.
Speaker 1: Get it done, just get it all done.
Speaker 2: Wonderful, an efficient clean. We love her.
Speaker 1: I really like how you see this thing where the
Speaker 1: females have taken on all the storage costs in mating,
Speaker 1: where the males have taken on all the travel costs.
Speaker 1: Look at they're working together. I love to find a solution, right, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: And apple goals for real.
Speaker 1: Right, And probably the system couldn't work well if they
Speaker 1: lived in warmer climates because the female is sitting pretty
Speaker 1: prone on this tree and she can't fly away, say
Speaker 1: like a bird or something is trying to eat her,
Speaker 1: Whereas in a much colder climate she is less likely
Speaker 1: to encounter a predator like a bird, and so she
Speaker 1: can really invest totally in becoming like a storage barge
Speaker 1: for eggs, whereas these males can invest in being like, well,
Speaker 1: we're basically sperm taxis and going around, and so they
Speaker 1: have this wonderful system.
Speaker 2: Sperm taxis and egg barges. It's a children's book waiting
Speaker 2: to happen. I yes, every time we're here, we think
Speaker 2: of a new animal.
Speaker 1: Children about I you know, I think it is important
Speaker 1: for kids to learn about this stuff. And I you know,
Speaker 1: I think there was like a recent news story about
Speaker 1: there being this controversy because some children and show or
Speaker 1: some schools teaching about how certain species of fish change
Speaker 1: their sex, like clownfish. There's actually several species of fish
Speaker 1: that do this. It's not not that novel, uh, And
Speaker 1: yet it was this big controversy like, oh, you can't
Speaker 1: teach kids. It's like, well, you know, it's just reality.
Speaker 1: Sorry the fish don't la la la.
Speaker 2: We don't want to hear about your transfishes. Woke mob,
Speaker 2: get out of here.
Speaker 1: Yeah if so, I guess the transgender agenda is so
Speaker 1: powerful it can actually make fish change their sex.
Speaker 2: The idea, the the power they have given to trans
Speaker 2: books that they definitely do not have. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: creepy and weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Leave trans kids alone. Y. Yeah, they're just, like you're,
Speaker 2: trying to live their lives. They did nothing to those fishes.
Speaker 2: Leave those fishes alone. They're just doing what they're supposed
Speaker 2: to be. Yeah, survive. This is good for their species.
Speaker 2: They don't need us to tell them. They're Yeah, yes, bizarre, bizarre.
Speaker 1: Uh, cancel the ocean.
Speaker 2: I guess oh god, I mean we're doing a great
Speaker 2: job of that.
Speaker 1: We are we are our own. Oh no, So what
Speaker 1: is the difference between a snake and a lizard?
Speaker 2: Joel?
Speaker 1: This isn't a setup to a joke. I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to trick you. It's it's the feet, okayo the I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm doing it in very simplistic terms, right, Like, again,
Speaker 1: this is not like a trick. Yes, So, like, snakes
Speaker 1: don't have legs generally, and lizards do have legs. Of course,
Speaker 1: there are other differences, sure, you know, anatomical differences, but
Speaker 1: this is the main distinguishing difference between snakes and lizards. However,
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of a legless lizard?
Speaker 2: No, because that's a snake. We just went over.
Speaker 1: I know it sounds like a legless lizard would just
Speaker 1: be a snake. But surprisingly, no, this is not the case.
Speaker 1: So there are lizards who, over many years of evolution,
Speaker 1: have lost their legs or they've been greatly reduced to
Speaker 1: tiny little nubblets. And this has been done independently of snakes.
Speaker 1: So over eight families of lizards containing multiple species have
Speaker 1: independently lost their legs. So this is an evolutionary trend
Speaker 1: that has happened over and over again independently. It's a
Speaker 1: popular thing in the lizard world to just lose your legs.
Speaker 2: It's this appropriation. Were they looking at the snakes and
Speaker 2: they're like, this slice seems better. Uh, and now I'm
Speaker 2: going to call myself a snake. Everyone's like, technically you're
Speaker 2: a legless lizard. They're like, well, lah lah, I can't
Speaker 2: hear you.
Speaker 1: I mean, is it okay to do appropriation? Once you've
Speaker 1: gone so far so deep in, you're willing to give
Speaker 1: up your.
Speaker 2: They've become part of the culture. They too, slither on
Speaker 2: the ground, Okay, they know that snake white. Okay, really
Speaker 2: blaring some wines here.
Speaker 1: So snakes and lizards evolved from a common ancestor a
Speaker 1: reptile squawmate. So the fossil record of the oldest known
Speaker 1: common ancestor to snakes and lizards was found in northern
Speaker 1: Italy in the Alps, and it is a species from
Speaker 1: around two hundred and forty million years ago called mega
Speaker 1: caryrella wac tillari. Gosh, that is so many consonants jammed
Speaker 1: into one word.
Speaker 2: Give it to me again, Katie, How does it go?
Speaker 1: Mega, kyrilla, waktillary.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, big word which means oh, gosh.
Speaker 1: Well Mega means big okay, and kyrilla that means something
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: It sounds like it's you have a Latin tex right right,
Speaker 2: There's some consonants, some vowels, so probably a word that
Speaker 2: has a meaning. Yes, I never agreed.
Speaker 1: I never got to the Latin what all the Latin
Speaker 1: words mean in my skewling. But what makes legless lizards
Speaker 1: different from snakes? Well, they are technically examples of how
Speaker 1: snakes evolved from a lizard like ancestor. But they are
Speaker 1: distinct from snakes because legless lizards evolved from a different
Speaker 1: lineage and in a different evolutionary path from snakes, As in,
Speaker 1: legless lizards and snakes don't share a recent common ancestor.
Speaker 1: Oh and they also have different anatomical characteristics. So legless
Speaker 1: lizards have eyelids and ear holes, which snakes do not have,
Speaker 1: and legless lizards aren't able to swallow prey larger than
Speaker 1: their heads like a snake can. So basically, in every way,
Speaker 1: legless lizards are lizards that don't have legs, whereas snakes
Speaker 1: are evolutionary and physically distinct from lizards, not just in
Speaker 1: the fact that they lack their legs.
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, guys, this is so trippy. So
Speaker 2: first of all, when you're looking at a legless lizard,
Speaker 2: uh and you're seeing the eyelids, for some reason, it
Speaker 2: feels more anthropomorphized or like human. It's like, what do
Speaker 2: you call those things? Not a transffer? No, no, no,
Speaker 2: not a transformer, but uh ah, where they it's like
Speaker 2: they're transmorphing. Is that the book cover where they show like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: turn into a different animal. Yes, it looks like an
Speaker 2: anamorph and it's right in between a lizard turned into
Speaker 2: a snake and or a human. Boy, it's a very
Speaker 2: weird but kind of cool.
Speaker 1: Look.
Speaker 2: Yes, their bodies also seem like thicker as compared to
Speaker 2: their heads. Like, I feel like a snake's head is
Speaker 2: typically like a little more tapered than than this is
Speaker 2: it is it is it like bonier than a snake.
Speaker 1: It looks I mean, if you count the like la like,
Speaker 1: there's probably more sort of vestigial leg architecture going on,
Speaker 1: so like a pelvic girdle they will probably have, whereas
Speaker 1: a snake doesn't necessarily have the pelvic girdle. But in
Speaker 1: terms of like, snakes do actually have a rib cage
Speaker 1: all the way down, but it's much I feel like
Speaker 1: they're much more expandable than the lightless lizards. So legless
Speaker 1: lizard is a little more structured, whereas a snake is
Speaker 1: a little more like the its skeleton really allows for
Speaker 1: a lot of expansion because of the whole like eating
Speaker 1: food larger than its head and can really widen its jaws.
Speaker 1: It's a it's kind of a misnomber to say they
Speaker 1: dislocate their jaws because their jaws are just naturally not
Speaker 1: a yeah, they're not not a fused like our jaws are,
Speaker 1: and so they can open their mouths really really wide,
Speaker 1: and also their rib cages can are more flexible. They
Speaker 1: can expand to a lot of these big, big meals,
Speaker 1: So that's why they can eat stuff that's like way
Speaker 1: bigger than their bodies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, looking at it, I becuess I would see
Speaker 2: like a snake. Sometimes some snakes have more of like
Speaker 2: an s curve when they slither, whereas this feels like
Speaker 2: it would be much more like wavy and less of
Speaker 2: a defined curve like it wouldn't maybe I guess more
Speaker 2: like this like kind of turn reading ass Is that
Speaker 2: what I'm looking for?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's they probably do move a little differently,
Speaker 1: although they do. They do slither essentially like a snake does.
Speaker 1: And you know they are they come in all sorts
Speaker 1: of different sizes. So this first photo that I've shared
Speaker 1: with you, All of these pictures will be in the
Speaker 1: show notes. This is a glass lizard and it is
Speaker 1: one of the bigger species of legless lizards. It's this
Speaker 1: It's I think it's quite beautiful. It's sort of this
Speaker 1: pale tan color. It's got these like weird it's not injured.
Speaker 1: I know, it kind of looks like someone slashed It's
Speaker 1: that's a natural part of this species. It's just sort
Speaker 1: of a skin fold. So yeah, it's called the shell
Speaker 1: top who sick. It is one of the largest species
Speaker 1: of legless lizards in the world, found in southern Europe
Speaker 1: and Central Asia. It is it grows to be a
Speaker 1: little under four and a half feet or one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty five centimeters. And yeah, that that groove is
Speaker 1: sort of folded skin, so it's it's normal.
Speaker 2: It looks badass.
Speaker 1: Looks wise. It looks like a white like, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of the There are various dragons. I think some
Speaker 1: of them are called like worms or something like, aren't
Speaker 1: there dragons where it's they don't have wings and they
Speaker 1: just kind of like slither through the air.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah they fly, But there's
Speaker 2: definitely they sort of resemble like a komodo dragon, but
Speaker 2: like in fantasy terms, So they're yeah large, and they're
Speaker 2: like clod you know, and typically instead of the almost
Speaker 2: dinosaur like head, it's more lizard like. Typically. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: definitely have those types of dragons, which are cool, Like
Speaker 2: Kmodo dragons are cool.
Speaker 1: They are very cool.
Speaker 2: These lizards are cool. I think what makes so like,
Speaker 2: what's terrifying about a snake and cute about these legless
Speaker 2: lizards is a snake can like prop itself up and
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and like really confront you.
Speaker 2: You're like, you're should not be facing me like this. Okay,
Speaker 2: you can just go on the ground and then up
Speaker 2: in the air and look me in my eye while
Speaker 2: you kill me. Horrifying. Little guy's killed. He is not
Speaker 2: going to get it. Doesn't look like he can prop
Speaker 2: himself up.
Speaker 1: I don't think. Yeah, I don't think they coil in
Speaker 1: this defensive manner that snakes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's much cuter that plus eyelids equals to snake.
Speaker 2: I could rock. Can't blink at you, Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 2: could wink at you. It could flirt.
Speaker 1: It's cute, it could flirt. What you need for flirting
Speaker 1: is eyelids. And if you don't go them, you can't flir.
Speaker 2: The ability is gone. These little guys are also kind
Speaker 2: of like the one with the tiny fettle legs.
Speaker 1: They are so cute. Yes, so there's the small one
Speaker 1: of the smaller species of legless lizards, or the southern
Speaker 1: California legless lizards who are small enough to be mistaken
Speaker 1: for earthworms. They are just a little tiny guys. Uh
Speaker 1: so cute. And then some species of lizards have not
Speaker 1: fully lost their legs. These are actually my favorites. But
Speaker 1: they are going in that direction though, so like they
Speaker 1: have legs with their teeny teeny teeny teeny days.
Speaker 2: If you saw Deadpool and these little tiny baby feet,
Speaker 2: it's exactly what you're thinking of. They're so little. Do
Speaker 2: these like help them propel or is this just a
Speaker 2: slow form of evolution, like we're getting rid of them,
Speaker 2: it just takes time.
Speaker 1: It's they probably have some positive use otherwise it's I mean,
Speaker 1: they could be vestigial, but I believe for these like
Speaker 1: it helps them a little bit. The rear legs probably
Speaker 1: helps with mating. Four legs probably helps a little bit
Speaker 1: in terms of burrowing or something. But I don't think
Speaker 1: that they're super super functional or helpful. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean they might. They just have a sort of
Speaker 1: different evolutionary path. They may never like if you gave
Speaker 1: them another you know, million years, they may never lose
Speaker 1: their legs, or they may lose them. But yeah, this
Speaker 1: is called the Italian skink, which sounds like an anti
Speaker 1: Italian slur, but it's not. Apparently that's a great name.
Speaker 2: What a bad love it? Oh man? The Italian skink wonderful.
Speaker 1: So I think one of the most interesting things about
Speaker 1: this is like the way in which these legs have
Speaker 1: been lost in lizards and snakes over and over again.
Speaker 1: So why do both snakes in some species of lizards
Speaker 1: lose their legs because legs seem pretty useful. The most
Speaker 1: likely reason is that burrowing or hunting in burrows made
Speaker 1: legs less efficient, So sliding into burrows is easy when
Speaker 1: you don't have any legs in the way, so they
Speaker 1: can just slide in, grab a baby, go for eat it,
Speaker 1: and slide out. Early snakes slowly lost their legs, they
Speaker 1: still had hind legs in some species for a while,
Speaker 1: and in modern BoA's they still actually have little tiny
Speaker 1: you can't even barely see them. What, Yeah, you really
Speaker 1: can't see them very well. It's just like they almost
Speaker 1: look like little tiny like clothing and that is it's
Speaker 1: like called a clasper and they can clasp in during
Speaker 1: mating and it helps them kind of like attach on
Speaker 1: to the female.
Speaker 2: Bowls just got two more terrifying. I didn't know. I
Speaker 2: really didn't know they were using hooks for sex. The
Speaker 2: very advanced creature.
Speaker 1: Fish like don't kink shame the bowl community so Joel,
Speaker 1: I can I make the assumption that you might be,
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit wary of scorpions.
Speaker 2: Definitely wary of scorpions. Definitely if I saw one, I
Speaker 2: would move in the other direction. I don't want to
Speaker 2: harm them, but you know, if we never cross back.
Speaker 2: It's how I feel about birds, people all over there.
Speaker 2: And it's really good that you have that space, and
Speaker 2: I don't want to take any from you. In fact,
Speaker 2: I think we should preserve your space. But I would
Speaker 2: not like to be in that space with you. What
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want you in my space.
Speaker 1: Scorpions are the birds of the ground. According to Joel, Yes,
Speaker 1: you're afraid of birds as well. Yes, for I mean
Speaker 1: you've been on the show multiple times, so I hope
Speaker 1: people would know that about you by now. But yes,
Speaker 1: afraid of birds, afraid of scorpions makes sense. You know,
Speaker 1: the scorpion is quite scary. What is the scariest part
Speaker 1: of the scorpions stingy part?
Speaker 2: Yes, ya overted at you. It's got like a big
Speaker 2: needle at the bottom that can stab you. And then
Speaker 2: it's poisonous snow. Yes, yeah, yeah that seems bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I I like scorpions. But I so, I
Speaker 1: grew up sort of next to a canyon, and for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, my room would get infiltrated by critters all
Speaker 1: the time, which was fun. It felt like it happened
Speaker 1: to my room the most. Maybe they they sensed my
Speaker 1: creature feature vibes. And yet I accepted some of them.
Speaker 1: But the scorpions, no, I couldn't. I could not accept
Speaker 1: living in my midst It was. It was very It
Speaker 1: was they were tiny. They were like these little, tiny
Speaker 1: tan scorpions. But like, even if it was scorpions small,
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean it's harmless because it could have venom.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was. I I was quite afraid of them.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's all because of that fierce, sort of
Speaker 1: syringe like tail that they would chode you. As you
Speaker 1: point out, Uh, so, it is kind of funny to
Speaker 1: me that there is an animal called the tailless whip scorpion.
Speaker 2: Which minute yes, which looks like.
Speaker 1: A kind of horrifying crab scorpion, but it's got no tail.
Speaker 2: Okay here, already, I'm so confused because if I think
Speaker 2: of a scorpion and anything whippy, it's that tail. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this one is whippy without the tail, Yeah, Diva, is this.
Speaker 1: So the whip part of it I think comes from
Speaker 1: the fact that it has these like really long antenna
Speaker 1: like structures that good large. Then yeah, it is a
Speaker 1: horrifying looking arthropod. It does not have that tail though
Speaker 1: that scorpions often have.
Speaker 2: Scorpions can be terrifying in an entirely different way. People.
Speaker 2: I just want to let you know if you were
Speaker 2: scared at the tail, you didn't know, Uh, it could
Speaker 2: have crab like claws. Oh my god, I just know
Speaker 2: some like alien creature designer has been looking at these
Speaker 2: being like my time is coming, Like I'm going to
Speaker 2: implement this into a horror film. Yes, and terrified pe
Speaker 2: This is so weird and scary and big. I would
Speaker 2: scream so loud if I saw this in nature. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, Katie, where are they? So I never go
Speaker 2: near that.
Speaker 1: Well, they are found kind of throughout the world because
Speaker 1: they are actually multiple species with an order called ambly page.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And it is actually not a true scorpion, so it's
Speaker 1: in the eracted class, which includes scorpions and spiders.
Speaker 2: I can see that.
Speaker 1: But the tail is whip scorpion while being a relative
Speaker 1: of both scorpions and spiders. Is neither a scorpion nor
Speaker 1: a spider.
Speaker 2: Now, animals, I really need you to get into. How
Speaker 2: are you both related to both of these but also
Speaker 2: classified as neither. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just its distinct order. So scorpions have
Speaker 1: its order of species, spiders have its own order, and
Speaker 1: so this one has its distinct order. They're just all
Speaker 1: kind of cousins, you know.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, those guys in class of his own, and
Speaker 2: to be fair looking at it deserves to be, has
Speaker 2: earned its own space title and recognition.
Speaker 1: So what Joel is reacting to is that this thing
Speaker 1: looks like you crossed a crab, a spider, and a
Speaker 1: scorpion and it created kind of a horrible alien. So
Speaker 1: the this has these long legs, very long and skinny,
Speaker 1: kind of like a spider. It has an antenna very
Speaker 1: long and sort of skinny, like I don't know, just
Speaker 1: really long antenna, kind of like a lobster. And then
Speaker 1: it has these two long, skinny legs that end in
Speaker 1: these little pincer claws.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And it is yeah, it's it's I think it's cool,
Speaker 1: but I acknowledge that it's unpleasant looking and They also scuttle,
Speaker 1: kind of like a crab. Oh, scuttling is something that
Speaker 1: turn some people off, and so yeah it is. They
Speaker 1: are basically a spooky, slender version of a crab spider
Speaker 1: or spider crab or whatever. They can get to be
Speaker 1: quite big, usually spanning larger than an adult's palm. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, the damon.
Speaker 2: I think, not Katie what.
Speaker 1: So for instance, the daemon Diadema tailless whip scorpion of
Speaker 1: Central Africa has a body that's only a little over
Speaker 1: an inch long or twenty eight millimeters, but its leg
Speaker 1: span gets to be up around eight inches or twenty centimeters.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to be near his body
Speaker 2: is so creepy. It's really like the legs are so
Speaker 2: spread out, and I feel like, as a human, my
Speaker 2: eyes are like which one do I need to focus on?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: With a scorpion, they have the courtesy of being like
Speaker 2: here's one tail, don't lose sight of it. Okay, these guys,
Speaker 2: they're like danger could come from anywhere at any time.
Speaker 2: And also I scuttle, I can move in any direction
Speaker 2: at any time. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: It's three hundred and sixty degrees of no. So they
Speaker 1: may look horrifying, and yes they do, but they actually
Speaker 1: have no venom. They're very shy, and they generally don't bite.
Speaker 1: The most you have to fear from them is getting
Speaker 1: pinched by their pair of long, pinchy pincers if you
Speaker 1: scare them or antagonize them.
Speaker 2: Poor phone crawls over you while you're sleeping, and you
Speaker 2: just scream yourself.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like a crab where it can
Speaker 1: pinch you, it can kind of hurt. These can, you know,
Speaker 1: make little tiny puncture wounds, sort of like if you
Speaker 1: get pricked by a thorn or something. But there's no venom,
Speaker 1: so it's not dangerous. It's not dangerous at all. They
Speaker 1: just look like they could kill you and latch onto
Speaker 1: your face, rip your eyeballs out, but they can't.
Speaker 2: Millions of years of human evolution has told you you
Speaker 2: should not touch or be near this thing. Okay, your
Speaker 2: body knows, even though even though your brain may know better.
Speaker 2: Be like, listen, you could survive a pinch and be fine.
Speaker 2: Your body said, we will not be putting in candy
Speaker 2: this way.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because these legs are very they are arachnids,
Speaker 1: and they have eight legs, but it looks like they
Speaker 1: only have six, but that is because one pair of
Speaker 1: their legs have been modified into the antenna, so those
Speaker 1: really long antenna that get them. The name of whip
Speaker 1: scorpion is the modified front legs that have grown extra
Speaker 1: sensory neurons and actually is now used as antenna. The pincers,
Speaker 1: the little what looks like little legs with pincers, are
Speaker 1: actually modified pettipalps. Pelps are when you look at a spider.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they have what look like tiny little arms near
Speaker 1: their mouth that kind of go like ye, yeah, which
Speaker 1: I think are cute, but yeah, those have become really
Speaker 1: elongated and have the cool addition of pincers and they
Speaker 1: use those like a crab wood where they grab food,
Speaker 1: grab prey. Sometimes they even stab the prey with them
Speaker 1: and then bring it up to their mouth and then
Speaker 1: they eat it with their chillicera.
Speaker 2: May I ask what their diet consists.
Speaker 1: Of small invertebrates. Usually they will occasionally eat a small
Speaker 1: vertebrate if the opportunity arises, but generally they only mess
Speaker 1: around with other arthropods.
Speaker 2: I like when they start eating the vertebrates that it's
Speaker 2: really terrifying to me. I will say this is my
Speaker 2: love hate relationship with the whole spider and spider esque community. Okay,
Speaker 2: y'all eat the little bugs that bite me that I hate,
Speaker 2: and you keep my house clear of them, and that's good,
Speaker 2: that's good for all of us. But then you are
Speaker 2: also terrifying. I have to deal with that. I've been
Speaker 2: getting pretty good about not killing the spiders in my
Speaker 2: house for those of you who are really about like
Speaker 2: you just said it free. I can't touch them because
Speaker 2: it weirds me out, but I will go get someone
Speaker 2: else in my household be like, will you just gently
Speaker 2: transfer this thing far outside of our door so it
Speaker 2: can come back in, but also it can just continue
Speaker 2: to do what it needs to do. This one. I'm sorry, buddy,
Speaker 2: if you come in my house, you have to die.
Speaker 2: It's not I can't cohabitate even for a second. It's
Speaker 2: so creepy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean some people keep them as pets.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, this thing can't show you affection. That's not
Speaker 2: a pet.
Speaker 1: Pinch your cheek with it's a little cloth.
Speaker 2: No no, no no.
Speaker 1: So they actually, despite I guess being nightmare fuel, they
Speaker 1: are very much introverts. Mating consists of the male depositing
Speaker 1: his sperm packets on the grid and gently guiding the
Speaker 1: female over with the hopes that she'll pick up the
Speaker 1: sperm packets, in seminate herself, and bear offspring.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Wins could learn a lesson, is all I'm saying. Sorry,
Speaker 2: Katie said, please explain. I'm just saying I think this
Speaker 2: is a much cleaner way of doing things, just to
Speaker 2: be like, if you want to, it's here, but don't eat,
Speaker 2: no stress. I disagree, and the lady's like you. I
Speaker 2: think I will pick it up and then just like he.
Speaker 1: Leaves his sperm on the ground in like little packets
Speaker 1: like here you.
Speaker 2: Go, guide you back to you can.
Speaker 1: Take a sperm, leave a sperm in that louck.
Speaker 2: You'll learn about whether this is the kind of person
Speaker 2: whose children you want to care or not. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I strong disagree. I don't want to trip over
Speaker 1: random sperm packets.
Speaker 2: Are you saying? Dating and LA has warped me? This
Speaker 2: is the earlier problem.
Speaker 1: That's one of those little robots that delivers food now,
Speaker 1: but for sperm packets. Yeah sounds great.
Speaker 2: Perfect.
Speaker 1: After the eggs hatch, the tiny baby tailless whip scorpions
Speaker 1: will actually climb onto their mother's back until they are
Speaker 1: old enough to be on their own, and their mother
Speaker 1: and the babies communicate using their weird antenna legs, which
Speaker 1: is a rare social behavior from arachnids.
Speaker 2: That is kind of cuge. Communicate through touch me to
Speaker 2: you guys.
Speaker 1: Behaviorally, they're actually really sweet. They're just very kind of shy.
Speaker 1: They are not aggressive at all because they don't really
Speaker 1: have that much to defend themselves with. Like, yeah, they
Speaker 1: can pinch you, and they will if they feel threatened,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's not much. So they generally are
Speaker 1: very very shy, very reserved. They're clearly very shy in
Speaker 1: the dating pool. They just they want to hold hands,
Speaker 1: like basically take a walk and hold hands is like
Speaker 1: the equivalent of sex for them, and then they like
Speaker 1: are communicate with their babies. It's very cute.
Speaker 2: Okay, So as long as one of these doesn't sneak
Speaker 2: up on me in my own house, maybe I can
Speaker 2: get somebody else to come take care of them and
Speaker 2: escort them outside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I can't. You're like, pinch me. I must
Speaker 1: be having a nightmare. It's like okay, we'll do well.
Speaker 1: Before we go, we've got to play a little game,
Speaker 1: and that game is called.
Speaker 2: Guess Who's squawking?
Speaker 1: The Mystery Animal Sound Game.
Speaker 2: I love this game.
Speaker 1: Every week I play a mystery animal sound and you,
Speaker 1: the listener, and you the guest, try to guess who
Speaker 1: is squawking. So first, last week's mystery animal sound, the
Speaker 1: hint was this, this patriotic bird often doesn't get credit
Speaker 1: for its work. Oh yeah, that came through.
Speaker 2: I almost spit water all over this sec. I didn't engineer.
Speaker 2: I was so good. I did not, but I was
Speaker 2: very close. Oh my god. Uh because patriot you said,
Speaker 2: as patriotic h eagle and he said it was hard.
Speaker 1: It often doesn't get credit for its work.
Speaker 2: Is it a it's a government government eagle? Now I
Speaker 2: love that.
Speaker 1: I really wish there was a species of rapper called
Speaker 1: the government eagle. So this is it's not a government eagle.
Speaker 1: You're doing in the right zone. Now, this is actually
Speaker 1: the red tailed hawk. So congratulations to the three fastest guessers,
Speaker 1: Auntie Bee, Joey P, and Emily M who all wrote
Speaker 1: in and guessed correctly.
Speaker 2: Smart.
Speaker 1: Yes, so red tailed hawks are raptors found throughout North America.
Speaker 1: They're a medium sized brown hawk with a white underbelly
Speaker 1: and rusty red tail. Their majestic call is often stolen
Speaker 1: and used as the call for bald eagles in movies
Speaker 1: or TV shows, which is their larger, more famous raptor.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, because when I heard it, I was like,
Speaker 2: this definitely sounds like an eagle. Yeah, and what I
Speaker 2: know of eagles, the call is very uh, unique and specific.
Speaker 2: When you hear it, you're like, okay, attention. So I
Speaker 2: can see why they were like, I don't know what
Speaker 2: sounds the bald eagle is making, but it's not this.
Speaker 2: It's not this.
Speaker 1: You want to hear what sounds the bald Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well that is adorable. Yes, that is listen here in
Speaker 2: America if you're not from here and have not seen
Speaker 2: the way we use a bald eagle. Uh, they're majestic sharpshooters, Yeah,
Speaker 2: in the sky who cut the sky with their wings
Speaker 2: and then dive on their prey. They're very manly. We
Speaker 2: put them on a lot of our war vehicles. That
Speaker 2: adorable chirping does not match the mental image we have
Speaker 2: as Americans of our country's bird, the bald eagle. So
Speaker 2: we did we as we typically do. We had to
Speaker 2: steal it from something much cooler and not acknowledged that species.
Speaker 1: I know, but the red tailed hawk is also found
Speaker 1: in North America. It's an American species. We're just like,
Speaker 1: you're not big enough. We really need an It's like
Speaker 1: this manufactured symbol, right like you eat an eagle that
Speaker 1: looks big and fierce. And the bald eagle is pretty
Speaker 1: big eyes, he's got those sharp eyes, got those big claws.
Speaker 1: And the red tailed hawk is not nothing. It's a
Speaker 1: you know, fierce predator, but it's smaller. It's you know,
Speaker 1: not as striking looking, I guess, but it's called it's
Speaker 1: much more majestic then the bald eagles. A link.
Speaker 2: It's cute though. I love the bagles sounding. I'm not gonna.
Speaker 1: It's just like they makes them sound like a little
Speaker 1: like you know, it's like a little kitty laugh or you.
Speaker 2: Want to get out of te set and not go
Speaker 2: to war though, so uh.
Speaker 1: You know how Americans feel about tea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, put that in the bay. Okay, So now
Speaker 2: what does the he says, the red tailed hawk? Yeah,
Speaker 2: what do these things look like? They look like a
Speaker 2: typical hawk.
Speaker 1: They just kind of they're not you know, you know
Speaker 1: what a hawk looks like.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: It's it's they're kind of brown. They they're sometimes called
Speaker 1: chicken hawks. They don't actually prey on chickens, so that's
Speaker 1: not that's a misnomer. But yeah, they they're just very
Speaker 1: hawk looking hawk.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's why I'm upset for the red tailed hawk
Speaker 2: right now. They've got the same eyes as the eagles,
Speaker 2: which we've just described as one of the key elements
Speaker 2: of what makes the eagle look badass. We need to
Speaker 2: put this on war vehicles, you know. I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 2: it's got all of the same energy. It's a little smaller,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, but it's got that burly chick. You
Speaker 2: can pay metals to this bird. Check it's so burly. Okay.
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings because I do want the red
Speaker 1: tailed hawk to be more recognized, but also I'm a pacifist,
Speaker 1: so using it, Like, Look, the problem is we have
Speaker 1: the wrong symbol on our on our drones.
Speaker 2: Right exactly. Yeah, put the red tail hawk on here.
Speaker 1: It's the wrong species of birds America.
Speaker 2: Listen, I vibe with it. This bird is actually kind
Speaker 2: of cute. And you guys aren't know how I feel
Speaker 2: about birds With this one. It looks together with it. Oh,
Speaker 2: not like the craziness of a turkey, yeah, or the
Speaker 2: absolute chaotic nature of an owl. Why are you turning
Speaker 2: your head around to look at me? So you turn
Speaker 2: your whole body with some respect. Okay, No, that's right.
Speaker 1: I lied to you. I said there would be no
Speaker 1: birds in this.
Speaker 2: We are right in the end. She's snuck it in there. Wow,
Speaker 2: I learned something today.
Speaker 1: Well onto this week's mystery animal. Sound the hint. This
Speaker 1: hairy animal doesn't want his picnic on a rainy day.
Speaker 2: That is a big baby.
Speaker 1: Whoa.
Speaker 2: It sounds like me that I get woken up from
Speaker 2: a nap. I'm very upset. Why is it raining here? Okay,
Speaker 2: it's some kind of bear. I feel confident in that lane.
Speaker 2: It's harry and it doesn't want to get what afro
Speaker 2: bear hit it? I did?
Speaker 1: Is he friends with government eagles?
Speaker 2: Their best They own all the war vehicles.
Speaker 1: Add that one to the list of animals I wish existed.
Speaker 1: Afro bear meats, can you imagine?
Speaker 2: I can't?
Speaker 1: And he's fabulous, wonderful, wonderful. Well, that is an incredible
Speaker 1: guess and we will find out next time on Creature
Speaker 1: Feature who is making that sound? If you out there
Speaker 1: think you know who the mystery animal is this week,
Speaker 1: write me an email at Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: You can also write questions to me and sometimes I
Speaker 1: have listener questions episodes, or respond to your emails or
Speaker 1: you know, send me pictures of your pets. Always love those. Yep.
Speaker 1: I get a lot of cute animals in my inbox
Speaker 1: and I love it, so Thank you guys so much
Speaker 1: for listening. Joe, Well, thank you so much for coming
Speaker 1: on the show. It's so lovely to see you in
Speaker 1: person in three D.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It was good
Speaker 2: to see you too. And now I know when you
Speaker 2: see a crab like spider, it's probably just an introvert
Speaker 2: and it doesn't want to be near you as much
Speaker 2: as you don't want to be near it. So I've
Speaker 2: really I guess you take that inform home ever, text
Speaker 2: additional spiders, which is an insane thing I never thought
Speaker 2: I would do. Well.
Speaker 1: Where can people find you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Will you guys known me? You can find me
Speaker 2: all over the internet at du Monique. It's Joe l
Speaker 2: E m O N I Q you well.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and thanks to Graham for doing
Speaker 1: the audio on this episode. I'm usually flying solo abroad,
Speaker 1: but I am so happy to pop into the studio
Speaker 1: and thank you guys so much for listening. If you
Speaker 1: are enjoying the show, you can leave a rating or
Speaker 1: review and I read every single review and all the
Speaker 1: ratings really do help the show. Or tell a friend
Speaker 1: you know, just like say like, hey, you want to
Speaker 1: learn about weird crab spiders that can pinch you like,
Speaker 1: tell them, let them know, spread the word. And thanks
Speaker 1: to the Space Cossics for their super awesome song.
Speaker 2: XO.
Speaker 1: Loom and a Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For
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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or hey guess what, maybe listen
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Speaker 2: I don't care.
Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday.