1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

2
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:08,880
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with

3
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:17,760
Speaker 1: tech stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello, and

4
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,799
Speaker 1: welcome to tex Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and

5
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 1: I am an editor at how stuff works dot com.

6
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,680
Speaker 1: Sitting across from me, as usual, is senior writer Jonathan Strickland.

7
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 1: The Secret Service holds much that has kept secret, even

8
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 1: from very senior officers in the organization. Creepy for So,

9
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,480
Speaker 1: the topic we're covering is a numbers stations, which actually

10
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:49,199
Speaker 1: comes to us courtesy of some feedback we received on Facebook, which, unfortunately,

11
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,600
Speaker 1: due to my computer being silly right now, I cannot

12
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 1: pull up. However, this is Facebook feedback asking us to

13
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 1: cover numbers stations, and you may under, oh my, Drew Geese,

14
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: what a number of stations is? Things being so scory

15
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 1: and people being quick to forget. That's that's like a

16
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,200
Speaker 1: double reference right there, since I throw in some clockwork orange.

17
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,760
Speaker 1: So here's what a number station is. It is a

18
00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 1: radio station using shortwave radio that blasts out a transmission,

19
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,400
Speaker 1: usually at a very regular interval, that normally has some

20
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 1: sort of tone or even music to it. Followed by

21
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: a series of numbers spoken in sort of a semi

22
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 1: monotone voice, sometimes an automated voice, in fact, very often

23
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,679
Speaker 1: an automated voice. And it's just a seemingly random string

24
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 1: of numbers that have no particular context or meaning to them,

25
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,160
Speaker 1: and it has created quite a kind of a well

26
00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 1: a hobbyist dream come true really for people who like mysteries,

27
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: because there's no official explanation as to what these stations

28
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 1: are and why why these numbers are being broadcast. Here's

29
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 1: what we know. No, I'm kidding. Now, let's go to

30
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,360
Speaker 1: what we can speculate on. Um. We do know that

31
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 1: official governments have there there's no official government that has

32
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 1: spoken up and said, oh, yeah, we did that. Yeah.

33
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 1: The closest was a Czechoslovakian official who acknowledge receipt of

34
00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 1: a message about numbers stations, but did not It did

35
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 1: not go so far as to actually say what the

36
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 1: number station was, what it was for. It essentially was

37
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,640
Speaker 1: just that I got your message. That was pretty much it.

38
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 1: The check is in the mail. There you go. But gosh,

39
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 1: I can't believe you were waiting an entire time for

40
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 1: me to shut up. So you can use that however, Uh,

41
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 1: there are fewer now than their word during the Cold War. Yeah,

42
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,640
Speaker 1: and they started the height of they started appearing during

43
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,519
Speaker 1: the World wars. So World War One, Yeah, not not.

44
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: You know, this is the early part of the earlier

45
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 1: part of the twentieth century. Yeah, the first first couple

46
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 1: of decades of the twentieth century. That's when they start

47
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 1: popping up. So let's talk a little bit about about

48
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 1: why a number station is even possible before we get

49
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 1: into what they were and what they sound like and

50
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,160
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. So first, they are short

51
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,440
Speaker 1: wave radio, which we have talked about on a previous

52
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 1: podcast many many years ago. Yeah, we'll do a quick

53
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,919
Speaker 1: we'll do a quick refresher course. So technically, a short

54
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 1: wave is a is a radio wave with a wavelength

55
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 1: shorter than two hundred meters. Two meters wavelength would have

56
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: a frequency of around hurts uh, and it's typically these

57
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 1: these radio waves are used to broadcast voice and music,

58
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 1: but also for a long distance communication. The reason that

59
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,600
Speaker 1: you can have long distance communication is that these wavelengths

60
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,960
Speaker 1: are at sort of a sweet spot when it comes

61
00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 1: to the way the earth works. So the Earth has

62
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 1: the honest sphere you know that surrounds it, binds it

63
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 1: and penetrates it. No, I hoes sphere just surrounds the Earth.

64
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,120
Speaker 1: And if you were to aim a short wave radio

65
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 1: frequency at the ionosphere, uh, the ionosphere would refract that

66
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,040
Speaker 1: frequency and it would beam back down to Earth. So

67
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 1: by bouncing it effectively off the ionosphere, you can send

68
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 1: a radio signal much further than you could if it

69
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:31,039
Speaker 1: were to just broadcast out and radiate out from a towery.

70
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: So with this in mind, with this long distance communication ability,

71
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,280
Speaker 1: it has opened up opportunities for lots of different applications. Uh.

72
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,159
Speaker 1: And you know you'll hear about amateur radio enthusiasts who

73
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 1: will just they'll they'll use their their radios to dial

74
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 1: in and listen to the various broadcasts that go out there.

75
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,400
Speaker 1: And that's really how number stations were discovered. It was

76
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,479
Speaker 1: mainly hobbyists who as they were scanning the different bands

77
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 1: and list thing to what was out there, they were

78
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:07,640
Speaker 1: coming across these very odd sort of transmissions. And um,

79
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,359
Speaker 1: before I get too far, I should say the whole

80
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 1: refraction by the ionosphere. There's a specific name for that

81
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,200
Speaker 1: kind of transmission that I love. I love this term

82
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: skywave propagation. It's a cool term, right, So yeah, you've

83
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 1: got these hobbiests who are listening in and they would

84
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 1: come across a very unusual and frankly pretty creepy kind

85
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 1: of transmission in some cases. And uh, I think we

86
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 1: even have an example that we can listen to. So

87
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: let's let's take a quick listen to what a typical

88
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 1: number station might sound like if you were to tune

89
00:05:47,560 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 1: in on a short wave radio. One h kind of

90
00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 1: gets you right here, don if by the by right

91
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,159
Speaker 1: here you mean now I'm looking over my shoulder and

92
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,520
Speaker 1: waiting for someone to break into the room. Yeah, that's

93
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 1: pretty much what I'm thinking. There is something particularly creepy

94
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,040
Speaker 1: about hearing kind of a and almost and almost like

95
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,719
Speaker 1: a harmonic. It sounds like there's been some harmonic supplied

96
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,719
Speaker 1: in some cases, like it's an automated voice or whatever,

97
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,080
Speaker 1: but hearing something like that monotone just delivering number after

98
00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,279
Speaker 1: number and then they really repetitious music that was used

99
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 1: to introduce these So what could these be? And there

100
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,119
Speaker 1: have been a lot of people who have suggested what

101
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: number stations might be all about, um, you know, everything

102
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: from it could just be uh stuff for people who

103
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 1: are surveying areas for for cartography and that kind of thing.

104
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 1: But it doesn't seem likely no one is taking credit

105
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 1: for it, not at all, so that that's our cartography channel.

106
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 1: That has led to, uh to some not so much

107
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. It really does boil down to, well, if

108
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: you're just broadcasting numbers with no other context, what could

109
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 1: you possibly be doing that for. And one of the

110
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 1: explanations is that it's a a way to communicate two

111
00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 1: spies to undercover operatives who might be uh invested in

112
00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 1: some foreign country, perhaps one that is unfriendly to the

113
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 1: the the country of origin and so there. And when

114
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 1: we say there's number stations, there are number of stations

115
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,280
Speaker 1: all over the world, and they're broadcasting pretty much all

116
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 1: the languages that you might expect. They would be in

117
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 1: the major languages of the world. So it's not just that,

118
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just one country that's doing this.

119
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 1: There there's multiple countries that are doing it. And uh

120
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 1: so the the speculation is that this is these are

121
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 1: messages they're sent to government spies, uh and these you know,

122
00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 1: the governments aren't admitting to it for for pretty understandable reasons.

123
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 1: I would say, well, if you or any of your

124
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 1: team is captured, the government will disavow any knowledge of

125
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 1: this operations. Message will self destructed fifteen seconds. The So

126
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 1: these messages, the numbers those that's a code, it's an

127
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 1: it's encoded message. Form of cryptography that is called the

128
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 1: the the one pad note yeah, or or one time

129
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 1: pad yeah. Um yeah. I'm interested in cryptography, uh and

130
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,719
Speaker 1: have been reading about it for many years. And this

131
00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 1: is not exactly a new thing. It doesn't even require

132
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 1: the use of a computer. I mean, we talked about

133
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 1: cryptography on many podcasts at different levels. Um and we

134
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: even got into quantum cryptography, which is supposedly unbreakable, although

135
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 1: I've seen reports recently that it may not necessarily be unbreakable. Well,

136
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 1: one time pads are technically unbreakable if you follow the

137
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 1: right procedure right because basically, um and they were called

138
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,360
Speaker 1: pads because at one time they were and probably still

139
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 1: are a pad. So this pad is generated like a

140
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 1: pad of paper. You uh write down your message and

141
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: encode it on this paper using the tool um And

142
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,320
Speaker 1: it's a one time thing. And there's a part of

143
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 1: the key is embedded in the message, so that tells

144
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 1: the recipient use page. Let's just go for a reference here,

145
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,320
Speaker 1: use page sixteen of your pad, and that way, you know,

146
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 1: you write down the message in the pad that you

147
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 1: can decode it on that page and and that then

148
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,439
Speaker 1: becomes useless. You can't use it again. Yeah, you then

149
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,760
Speaker 1: destroy that page. So here's here's how here's how it works.

150
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,160
Speaker 1: Let's say that I want to send a message to Chris,

151
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,959
Speaker 1: and I want to use this this one time pad method.

152
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,000
Speaker 1: All right, So we would each have a pad that

153
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 1: would have a string of random letters across each line,

154
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,080
Speaker 1: all right, And let's say we group them in in

155
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,520
Speaker 1: groups of five, because that's pretty common, that's four or five.

156
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,560
Speaker 1: So we'll say we have groups of five letters. And

157
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,920
Speaker 1: these letters are truly random in that we've had some

158
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,280
Speaker 1: sort of well as close to truly random as we

159
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 1: can get. We've had some sort of random number generator

160
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 1: that has picked random letters, and it's just that we

161
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 1: each have a copy of that output. So Chris's string

162
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,440
Speaker 1: of random letters is the same as my string of

163
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 1: random letters. And then I write down my message in

164
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,440
Speaker 1: normal text, and I write my normal letters above the

165
00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,080
Speaker 1: letters of the that's that's in the key. Then I

166
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 1: convert my letters into numbers. So let's say that an

167
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,959
Speaker 1: A equals zero, and a B equals one, and a

168
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 1: C equals Three's not going to take them very long

169
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 1: to pick this one apart. No, it's going to take

170
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 1: them a long time because here's the here's the that

171
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,320
Speaker 1: that's just that. All that is is just as just

172
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,439
Speaker 1: a simple substitution cipher. Right, But here's the tricky part.

173
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 1: So then I take my key, all right, and I

174
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,600
Speaker 1: convert all of those letters to numbers. That's when it

175
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 1: gets harder. And then I add the two numbers together,

176
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 1: all right, So I add the I add the number

177
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 1: from my first letter. So let's say that my first

178
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,440
Speaker 1: letter is H, because I write, hey there, Chris, I

179
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,200
Speaker 1: take the number from H. Yeah really, why not? Alright?

180
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,400
Speaker 1: You know, hey there Chris, there's a rusky on your tail.

181
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 1: That's that's my message. So H is because I'm going

182
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 1: back to the Cold War. So so H. We would

183
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,000
Speaker 1: convert H to a number, and then we look at

184
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:34,720
Speaker 1: the first letter in the key. Let's say that the

185
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,679
Speaker 1: first letter in the key is an M. Well, that

186
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 1: M is going to have its own number of value.

187
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 1: We add the H and the M values together and

188
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 1: then we convert that into a new letter. So if

189
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 1: it's anything up to if we if A is zero,

190
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 1: if it's anything up to twenty five, then that's the

191
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,320
Speaker 1: letter that we would pick. If it's over twenty five,

192
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,840
Speaker 1: then we just use number twenty six counts a zero again,

193
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 1: so the number twenty would be an A, twenty seven

194
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,959
Speaker 1: would be a B, twenty eight would be a C.

195
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: So we go up there and we we put in

196
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,360
Speaker 1: whatever the substitute letter will be. Well, the only way

197
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 1: to know what the original letter is is if you

198
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,560
Speaker 1: have that one time pad in front of you where

199
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 1: you take the value of the letter that is uh

200
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 1: that the represented letter, the ciphered letter. You subtract the

201
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,880
Speaker 1: value of the key from the ciphered letter, and that

202
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,280
Speaker 1: gives you the value of the original letter, and then

203
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,959
Speaker 1: you can convert that into the original letter. So the

204
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:39,840
Speaker 1: process of coding and decoding is pretty painstaking because you

205
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,680
Speaker 1: know you have to you have to convert all the

206
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,080
Speaker 1: letters to values, add and then make new letters. But

207
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: the nice thing is is that because as long as

208
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,199
Speaker 1: you keep that that string of letters that acts as

209
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 1: your key truly random, and that you don't repeat letters,

210
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 1: so that you don't or you don't repeat strings, like

211
00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 1: you don't go to the end of a page and

212
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 1: and start at the top again. As long as you

213
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: avoid that, it is impossible to crack that without without

214
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,080
Speaker 1: getting possession of one of those pads. So that's where

215
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,760
Speaker 1: we talk about if you follow this correctly, it is

216
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 1: unbreakable the correctly. By correctly we mean you you have

217
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 1: truly random string for your key. You do not repeat

218
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 1: the key, and you do not let the key fall

219
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 1: into the wrong hands. As long as that happens, it

220
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,320
Speaker 1: is unbreakable. So it's kind of like when we talked

221
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 1: about the the various ways of ciphering. You know, there

222
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 1: always seems to be some way to crack the code.

223
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,800
Speaker 1: In this case, unless you have physical possession of the

224
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,079
Speaker 1: pad or if someone uses a key that repeats, it's

225
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:52,120
Speaker 1: just not practical. So that's that's the basis for the

226
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,959
Speaker 1: secret messages. Um, what those secret messages are we can't say,

227
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,720
Speaker 1: because again, unless someone gets hold of one of those

228
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,320
Speaker 1: paths adds, then it is it's just meaningless numbers. I mean,

229
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,839
Speaker 1: you could convert those two letters, but all that's going

230
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 1: to do is give you the product of those those

231
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 1: two that like the original message and the key. Without

232
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 1: having the key, you can't figure out what the original messages. Now. Um,

233
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 1: it is likely too that the uh, well we talked

234
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 1: about that in the Enigma machine, how the German codes

235
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,680
Speaker 1: during World War Two were broken down into those um

236
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,280
Speaker 1: five letter combinations, um as an added layer of security.

237
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: These these combinations stand in for other words too, So

238
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 1: it is possible that you know, even if you did

239
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,920
Speaker 1: break the code, you would also have to have the

240
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:51,680
Speaker 1: book that explains what these these letter combinations mean. But um, so, well,

241
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. If if you for some reason,

242
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,720
Speaker 1: if you may right, or if they use a repeating key,

243
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,680
Speaker 1: because if they use a repeating key, then it would

244
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 1: take a lot of an you would have to analyze

245
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 1: the heck out of the message, but you could potentially

246
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,280
Speaker 1: start detecting patterns. Well that's what broke the enigmac Yeah, exactly,

247
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 1: because they were they got lazy, lazy, and they started

248
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 1: using repeating keys as opposed to using a key that

249
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 1: just doesn't repeat, which would have been impossible to crack.

250
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: So it's just an added layer of security. That's that

251
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 1: just makes it much more difficult. So they do these

252
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:28,080
Speaker 1: repetitions over and over again. Um, and it's. Uh. The

253
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: thing is, the the tone and the style of the

254
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 1: broadcasts is really really creepy, especially when you add that

255
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 1: spy layer in your head to it. You start going,

256
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 1: this message is not intended for me, and and somebody

257
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,760
Speaker 1: could be doing something. You know, I could be listening, well,

258
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 1: this is what I think, you know, I'm you know,

259
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: listening to it, going I could be listening to a

260
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 1: message that tells somebody to kill somebody else, right, this

261
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 1: could be a message saying to like and then think

262
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,800
Speaker 1: about this. You hear those messages and then maybe a

263
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 1: week later, you hear about some massive political event that

264
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 1: takes place in the country, and you think, is there

265
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 1: any connection to what I heard and what just happened?

266
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,440
Speaker 1: Is what I heard? Was that? Was that a essentially

267
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 1: a prediction for what actually unfolded? And yeah, it's it's

268
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, it is definitely creepy. And um,

269
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,600
Speaker 1: there are a lot of really cool names for these

270
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 1: various broadcasts, some of which are named after the music

271
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 1: that they use. Yeah, and again, Um, in some cases

272
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 1: you could kind of some of them the station's sort

273
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 1: of semi identify themselves and others I think are given

274
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: sort of like kind of stars, you know, or viruses.

275
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 1: They're given the names of their discoverers want to name them. Yeah,

276
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 1: so there's um, there's One of the famous ones is

277
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 1: the Lincolnshire Poacher. Yeah, which was was featured not too

278
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 1: long ago as of the recording of this podcast on

279
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: another podcast called The Skeptics Guide to the Universe, they

280
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 1: have a little feature where it's called Who's that Noisy?

281
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 1: And they which which is named after one of the

282
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 1: one of the hosts has a daughter who would say

283
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 1: who's that noisy? As in what's making that noise? So anyway,

284
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 1: Who's that noisy is the name of the segment where

285
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,360
Speaker 1: they'll play a sound file and it's the listener's job

286
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 1: to try and figure out what that sound file is.

287
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 1: And they played the little musical uh prelude that would

288
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 1: happen before the numbers broadcast on the number station Lincolnshire

289
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,160
Speaker 1: Poacher Do do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do

290
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 1: Do Do Do do doo And it's really creepy when

291
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 1: you hear it over and over again. Um And anyway,

292
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,919
Speaker 1: that particular broadcast has been linked to Cyprus, to the

293
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,400
Speaker 1: Royal Air Force Base on Cyprus and is believed, though

294
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 1: there's no proof because there's no one actually coming out

295
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 1: and saying this is true, that it was operated by

296
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 1: the British Secret Intelligence Service out of Cyprus. Now that

297
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: particular station is no longer active. I think it stopped

298
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 1: podcasting in neither two thousand or two thousand nine. But

299
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,919
Speaker 1: there are a few others that also were pretty famous.

300
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 1: Cherry Ripe. There's the song Cherry Ripe, another British folk song,

301
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 1: which was a station somewhere in Australia or Australia if

302
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 1: you prefer. There's Swedish Rhapsody, which is possibly the creepiest

303
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 1: thing I have ever heard in my life, which is

304
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 1: a there's a Glockenshfield it's playing and a ace. The

305
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 1: voice is clearly that of a female child reading out

306
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: numbers in Germany, and you just hear this glockenspield play

307
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 1: and then this little girl reading out numbers in German,

308
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,680
Speaker 1: and it is you can't help but feel a deep

309
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 1: sense of foreboding. But then there's also other ones called

310
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: like the Mad Violinist and the Boardman, because apparently it's

311
00:18:51,119 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 1: just for two seven eight that that's kind of how

312
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: I would be like like day one, I'd be all creepy,

313
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: and day two I'd be you know, less creepy. Day three,

314
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: I just be like three six. What am I gonna

315
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 1: have for dinner tonight? For I gotta pick up the

316
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 1: drug leading to read the message you're not getting anything

317
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: for dinner. Um. Yeah, there are There are a number

318
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 1: of places number um where you can if you don't

319
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 1: happen to have a short wave radio, where you can

320
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,399
Speaker 1: pick up on these. Um. The Internet Archive, of course,

321
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 1: which collects all sorts of strange and esoteric things. Um.

322
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 1: There are many many recordings that you can listen to

323
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 1: on there. And actually the first place that I encountered

324
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 1: these was in an article in Wired magazine, which I

325
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: went back and revisited UM for for this, and they

326
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: were categorizing this Russian station UVB seventy six, which had

327
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 1: been broadcasting essentially the same thing for many, many years

328
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 1: until one day it stopped and then started again, and

329
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 1: then stopped again, and then you could hear so it

330
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: sounded like somebody in the room with the microphone, uh,

331
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, just you know, too creepy stuffling stuff and

332
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: banging around, and then it started broadcasting something else and

333
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: and they changed the call numbers at the station to

334
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: something entirely different. It makes me wonder if the guy

335
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 1: was just asking for toilet paper and it finally arrived

336
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 1: and he was like, now blue jeans blue. Well, you

337
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 1: can you can still listen to this at UVB dash

338
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 1: seven six dot net and you can go and visit

339
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: that website and they will tell you. The enthusiasts who

340
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: keep track of these things will will share information about

341
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: the station and what it changed to. But very very weird. U. Well.

342
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,199
Speaker 1: I think is funny is that a lot of the

343
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 1: people who are following numbers stations, who really have a

344
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 1: passion for listening to them and finding them on on

345
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 1: shortwave radio, they don't want to have the mystery solved

346
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,400
Speaker 1: because it would mean their hobby would be over. Well,

347
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 1: I mean it even um information about this. This is

348
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: kind of something that is operated for so many years. Uh,

349
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 1: if you will pardon the radio punt under the radar,

350
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's not something that the general public

351
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 1: knew anything about up until the last handful of years,

352
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: which is kind of ironic considering it was going on

353
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: through the Cold War and before that and and and

354
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 1: now after most of it has stopped anyhow. Uh. It

355
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: even made an appearance in an episode of Lost. I understand.

356
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: I never was really much of a fan of the show,

357
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: but I think it's cool that they put that into

358
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: the the show's UM storyline, that there was a number

359
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: station involved with uh, with the plot line UM. And

360
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: of course that was about codes and code breaking and

361
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 1: creepiness and all sorts of stuff, so it fit right in. UM.

362
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it's it's fascinating. But the people

363
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 1: who watched Lost, you know, wanted the mystery to unravel

364
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: over time. They didn't want it solved immediately. And I

365
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: think for for the people who followed they these number stations,

366
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: it's the same kind of thing. They don't and you

367
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of want to know. But then I don't know

368
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: if you've ever read a book where you didn't want

369
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: the story to end and you just stopped reading because

370
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: you just enjoyed the fact that it was still going

371
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: on and you didn't really want to know quite what

372
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: was going on, although you knew it had an end

373
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: and somebody was behind it. I don't want to know.

374
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 1: So I've done that many times, or slowed very very

375
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: slow way down, you know. UM, because you don't want

376
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 1: to find out because then you know your fun ends.

377
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: So I don't know very interesting stuff. Jonathan has been

378
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 1: researching something as we're talking, and he's got this mysterious

379
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: look on his face. Yeah. Um yeah, No, creepy, that's

380
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: all I'm saying. It is creepy. Uh yeah, I mean

381
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: these are these are definitely one of those things that

382
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: that I hope stick around just for the sake of

383
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: perpetuating this kind of air of mystery, because you think

384
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: about it, you're like, Okay, first of all, let me

385
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: get this clear. Our world is amazing and the universe

386
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: is astounding. But even so, there are days where you

387
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: feel like you're living in a pretty mundane kind of existence.

388
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: And then you find out about numbers stations and you're like,

389
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: there's a whole level operating just under the surface that

390
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: I've always suspected but never really proven, and now I

391
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: know there's something to it. Then you're like, hey, our

392
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 1: world is amazing again. By the way, our world is amazing,

393
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: whether there's number stations or not. It's just that occasionally

394
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: we have to be reminded of it. Puppies boomtiata Alright,

395
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: so shout out to the parent company. Uh, guys, that

396
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: kind of wraps up our discussion on number stations. I

397
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: wish we could tell you more, but frankly, there's just

398
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 1: nothing official. We can't you know, we we can speculate

399
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: all we like, but we can't really, uh say for sure. Now,

400
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: I think I think it's fairly safe to say that

401
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: if these are encoded messages, which I can't imagine them

402
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: being anything else, that they're not. Yeah, it's hard to

403
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: it's hard to come up with a set of circumstances

404
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: whereas a string of numbers isn't meaningful in any other way,

405
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: that if they are encoded messages, that this is some

406
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: form of espionage I mean at least some form of

407
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: secret communication. And it's one way. I mean, these are

408
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: a broadcasts that are going out. It's not that we're

409
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: receiving answers from from another one. It's also I mean,

410
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: they're they're regular, they're they're broadcast usually at regular intervals,

411
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: like on the hour or on every quarter hour or whatever.

412
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: So oh, you know, I think it's pretty safe to

413
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: say these are some form of of espionage communication. Um,

414
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: but that's really all we can say, although that go

415
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: listen to some because they are both fascinating and incredibly

416
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: unsettling for just being a series of numbers. So that

417
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: wraps up this discussion. You guys, if you have any

418
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: topics you would like us to cover, let us know.

419
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: Send us a message on Facebook or Twitter are handled.

420
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 1: There is text stuff H s W or you can

421
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: always send us an email. That address is tech Stuff

422
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com and Chris and I will talk

423
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: to you again really soon. Four seven Do do Do

424
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: Do Do three Do be sure to check out our

425
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff

426
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing

427
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: possibilities of tomorrow. The House Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived.

428
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes, brought to you by the

429
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,719
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you