Speaker 1: From the King of sports books comes the Key Sports
Speaker 1: podcast Unleashed, presented by the MGM. Here's your host, Jerry
Speaker 1: Ferrara and Olivia Harlan Dekker. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to Unleashed.
Speaker 1: You know Bill Belichick says football season starts after Thanksgiving. Well,
Speaker 1: in that case, welcome to football season. The leaves are changing,
Speaker 1: and so is the playoff picture. We're going to get
Speaker 1: to all that. Plus if you were a Bo Jackson fan.
Speaker 1: Coming up, we have New York Times best selling author
Speaker 1: Jeff Burman joining us to discuss his new book. He
Speaker 1: has so many bestsellers. This one's called The Last Folk Hero,
Speaker 1: The Life and Myth of Bo Jackson and Packer fans
Speaker 1: will also love Gunslinger about Brett Farve. I've talked about
Speaker 1: that one on the show before. I love that book.
Speaker 1: I just started reading the Bou Jackson book. It is amazing.
Speaker 1: He interviewed over seven people and there are incredible stories
Speaker 1: in there. I'm really excited to talk to him and
Speaker 1: here some of his stories. Jerry, you go back a
Speaker 1: little ways with Jeff, don't you. I go back with Jeff.
Speaker 1: He It was is one of my favorite writers I've
Speaker 1: read all of his books. I used to try to
Speaker 1: option all of his books as a producer years ago.
Speaker 1: Now I think they're all optioned. Yeah. Anytime I know
Speaker 1: there's a Jeff Prolman book in the works are coming,
Speaker 1: I sort of put it into my schedule to make
Speaker 1: time to read it. And also now audio wise, it's
Speaker 1: a great way to listen to a book too. It's
Speaker 1: kind of how I consume. So he's kind of the
Speaker 1: goat when it comes to some of these sports books.
Speaker 1: He really is. Oh. Absolutely, Yeah, as Walter Peyton book
Speaker 1: is really good. Yeah, we have so much to ask him.
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to this interview. Um. I'm also
Speaker 1: really looking forward to hearing how your Thanksgiving. Once I
Speaker 1: was thinking about you look, it was great. It was great.
Speaker 1: We hosted twenty seven adults and six kids that I
Speaker 1: did just discover something that I did not see. So
Speaker 1: we had some tables in the basement because just overflow
Speaker 1: of people down here, you know, the living room. There's
Speaker 1: a little kitchen area and then there's like my gym.
Speaker 1: It's not a big jim, but it's a nice little
Speaker 1: the end. Today, I'm doing my best version of a
Speaker 1: workout because I'm tired and I'm looking at the floor
Speaker 1: in my and I'm thinking what And one of the kids,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it was my own, who knows,
Speaker 1: just had some kind of permanent marker scribbling on the
Speaker 1: floor in certain like the whole length of the beam
Speaker 1: from mirror to wall. And uh, yeah, I'm just gonna,
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm just gonna sell the house. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna put it on the lort sell. How I say,
Speaker 1: at this point, after that party for Thanksgiving, we start
Speaker 1: over well, and I know the Giants game was a
Speaker 1: huge part of your day. How did you fare? It sucked,
Speaker 1: to be honest, because they fought so hard and they're
Speaker 1: just undermanned at this point, the injuries are too far gone.
Speaker 1: I think Dable has been doing a really good job
Speaker 1: of getting the most out of Daniel Jones. Quan sort
Speaker 1: of been running to the ground a little bit. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of carries this year. But
Speaker 1: I'm proud. I'm very optimistic and happy. I am not
Speaker 1: mad at the Giants one bit, even though I would
Speaker 1: have loved to have seen them win that game. And
Speaker 1: I think I might have a little unleashed later about
Speaker 1: some Thanksgiving football stuff Oh okay, I'm here for that.
Speaker 1: How about the NFC East All four teams would currently
Speaker 1: make the playoffs. It's amazing. Nuts, Yeah, I think they
Speaker 1: should have been the Washington contenders instead of the Commanders.
Speaker 1: They came out of nowhere. They certainly look like they're
Speaker 1: a problem. Then you look at Jalen Hurts, you know,
Speaker 1: not that it was the hardest competition of the week.
Speaker 1: I will say when you look at Jalen Hurts and
Speaker 1: you have to really give him his m v P
Speaker 1: chand a hundred and fifty seven on the ground, he's
Speaker 1: in territory now where he's almost by himself. I know.
Speaker 1: Which if you had told me this a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago, we wouldn't have believed that because everyone was
Speaker 1: hot on Josh Allen for like the first half of
Speaker 1: the season and now running away with it literally literally
Speaker 1: running away with it. Um. Also in that game, Packers
Speaker 1: Eagles betters could cash in on the over in the
Speaker 1: first thirty minutes. That game was just gunfire. That was
Speaker 1: so exciting to watch. How much are you but are
Speaker 1: you watching all start to finish to the Packer Because
Speaker 1: that's why I respect about these Browns fans and I
Speaker 1: come across there and and they screwed a lot of
Speaker 1: people with that win. I think there was a lot
Speaker 1: of bucks, parlay's and money lines and teasers that they
Speaker 1: almost screwed or did screw. But they still watched the games,
Speaker 1: all these Browns fans like there's something to watch. Are
Speaker 1: you watching these Packer games still? Like we could still
Speaker 1: get in mathematically? Yes? And you know I went to
Speaker 1: the Thursday night game last week against the Titans, and
Speaker 1: then this Sunday night, this past Sunday night. How could
Speaker 1: you look away from that game even if you weren't
Speaker 1: a fan of either team. That was a great game.
Speaker 1: And then the excitement of Roger's leaving and Jordan's love
Speaker 1: going in and he sparked something in our rookie receiver
Speaker 1: Christian Watson got another touchdown. He's really found something in
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. I mean, it's it's You're
Speaker 1: going to see it on every talk show this week, right.
Speaker 1: Should Aaron Rodgers call it a season? And then we
Speaker 1: start the charade of all off season? What's he gonna do?
Speaker 1: What's the team gonna do? You know, as a Packer fan,
Speaker 1: I'm getting really weary of that I'm getting really run
Speaker 1: down on this topic. But you've got to ask it,
Speaker 1: you know, after Jordan's love comes in and does all right,
Speaker 1: what do you think? I mean as an outsider, as
Speaker 1: a as a non Packer fan, So as a non
Speaker 1: Packer fan, it's so hard to I don't want to
Speaker 1: say the word tank, but it's so hard to say,
Speaker 1: all right, let's phone it in the season and make
Speaker 1: and actually get a really good draft pick here. Because
Speaker 1: there's such physical violence in football. I don't think you
Speaker 1: could just phone it in because if you phone it in,
Speaker 1: you can get seriously, seriously hurt. So to that degree
Speaker 1: and there and there their athletes, they're glad eat there's
Speaker 1: there's no phoning it. I would like to see if
Speaker 1: Rogers really is banged up and we're not seeing the
Speaker 1: best of Aaron Rodgers, and I know he has the
Speaker 1: thumb thing. I would just like to see Jordan's love play.
Speaker 1: Then it is a lost season. I'm not saying you
Speaker 1: need to put such imponisma one and you could trade
Speaker 1: Jordan's love or you could trade Aaron. I'm not even
Speaker 1: going that far. I just want to see Jordan's love
Speaker 1: play because they are going to have to make some
Speaker 1: decisions this offseason, and look, would it be the worst
Speaker 1: thing in the world. The Packers only one one more
Speaker 1: game the rest of the year and had a really
Speaker 1: good draft pick, And I don't think that's the word thing.
Speaker 1: Although Michael Lombardi, friend of the show's coming and joining
Speaker 1: us next week. I listened to his pod and he
Speaker 1: had a very distinct like, no, Aaron Rodgers getting a
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety billion dollars, he needs to play if
Speaker 1: he could play. So I trust his take more than mine.
Speaker 1: I just want to see Jordan's love play and see
Speaker 1: what he could do. I know he came in in
Speaker 1: the third quarter. He went six for nine, one thirteen
Speaker 1: and that touchdown of Christian Watson I mentioned. I agree
Speaker 1: because he's in year three and the Packers need to
Speaker 1: decide what they want to do with him going into
Speaker 1: year four of his rookie contract. It's it's a business decision.
Speaker 1: And how can you cut a guy, trade guy, whatever
Speaker 1: you're gonna do with him if you really haven't given
Speaker 1: him a shot. And now this season that could be
Speaker 1: one upside of this season is that we can see
Speaker 1: what we got. Yeah, Like, it's a tough spot to
Speaker 1: be in and the Packers and you Packer fans are
Speaker 1: really not used to ever even having this talk. That's
Speaker 1: why I don't mind all the sports talk we're gonna
Speaker 1: get about this, because you don't see it with Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers in the Packers. You just don't because you're always contenders,
Speaker 1: You're always in the mix, always a threat. So I
Speaker 1: do think this is a rare opportunity where you again,
Speaker 1: he is banged up. It is confirmed Aaron Rodgers is
Speaker 1: banged up. It's not like he's a and playing so well,
Speaker 1: or else we wouldn't have this discussion. He says he's
Speaker 1: playing Sunday. He does. He just came out and said
Speaker 1: he's playing Sunday. Rib injury aside, thumb injury aside. I
Speaker 1: don't know what kind of skeleton is going to be
Speaker 1: playing quarterback for the Packers this weekend, but Aaron says
Speaker 1: it's him. And listen, when it's the Chicago Bears on
Speaker 1: the schedule and you've gone out of your way to
Speaker 1: talk about how you own them, I maybe would say
Speaker 1: the same thing too. I'll play this Bears game and
Speaker 1: then you know what, don't they got the Chiefs? Jordan Law,
Speaker 1: you go go ahead, go ahead to head with my homes,
Speaker 1: get in their kids. Another team that will certainly not
Speaker 1: be making the playoffs is the l A. Rams. I mean,
Speaker 1: my god, how the Mighty have fallen? After winning the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Now they're three and eight and there's no
Speaker 1: word on when Matt Stafford will return. And to make
Speaker 1: matters worse, the Lions owned their first round pick, So
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sure Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey
Speaker 1: are gonna want to stick around for a rebuild. And
Speaker 1: Jalen Ramsey got burned by Travis Kelsey this weekend and
Speaker 1: he didn't look good. He's kind of hot and cold.
Speaker 1: What do you think of the Rams? Look? Travis Kelsey
Speaker 1: burns a lot of people that that connection is just
Speaker 1: undeniably the best ever. I'm sorry you'll disrespect Aniel the
Speaker 1: great tight ends. That's the greatest connection ever. What do
Speaker 1: you say with the Rams? They got their Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: they got that amazing new stadium. And it's weird because
Speaker 1: I looked this up because I was wondering should the
Speaker 1: Rams be in l A. I was trying to do
Speaker 1: this whole reconfiguration. Wouldn't be better if the Raiders were
Speaker 1: in l A. And then maybe the Chargers were in Vegas,
Speaker 1: and then where do we put the Rams. I do
Speaker 1: know they have a strong l A fan base for
Speaker 1: the I mean strong using that word liberally. But then
Speaker 1: I looked at their attendance and they are like top
Speaker 1: ten in attendants because I think all the other teams
Speaker 1: fans show up for their games. So I guess the
Speaker 1: business model does work if you're okay with six of
Speaker 1: the place being filled with the opposing teams fan. Look,
Speaker 1: they got their championship. It's amazing. They have no draft picks.
Speaker 1: I know they went they tried to go in on
Speaker 1: McCaffrey with some late draft picks, like in a few
Speaker 1: years from now. I don't know what how much more
Speaker 1: could you do? It might be time the Aaron Donald
Speaker 1: will probably retire. Jalen Ramsey. You probably gotta trade him
Speaker 1: to a contender and maybe you could get a first
Speaker 1: round pick or get something they got. They're gonna have
Speaker 1: to just reload. It's gonna be really hard to do
Speaker 1: that without your draft picks. I mean, the Lions potentially
Speaker 1: may get like three and six overall this year if
Speaker 1: this continues this way, Yeah, I know, And then then
Speaker 1: they might be ready next year, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: They there's a lot to like about the Lions, and
Speaker 1: there certainly was this weekend as well. So yeah, if
Speaker 1: they get a couple of pieces, what's not to like
Speaker 1: about them for this coming season? Yeah, it's We talk
Speaker 1: about the NBA a lot with the Lakers and the
Speaker 1: Pelicans and and trading for the star player that maybe
Speaker 1: brings you that instant success, but long term doesn't bring
Speaker 1: you any So now if you're the team that traded
Speaker 1: the superstar, you're kind of sitting back like it's my time. Now.
Speaker 1: We see it with the Pelicans. Now, you gotta we
Speaker 1: make fun of Houston Texans on this show. But the
Speaker 1: Browns stink this year. They stole that game against the Books.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a good pick for the Texans unless
Speaker 1: the Browns really go on the run, which I don't
Speaker 1: see happening. Obviously. We know what position the Seattle Seahawks
Speaker 1: are in with the Russell Wilson trade. So it's bad
Speaker 1: for the Rams, but they got their championship, and I
Speaker 1: just think it's gonna be a tear it down and
Speaker 1: rebuild and it might take a very long time. So
Speaker 1: let me ask you theoretically, and you can plug in
Speaker 1: any sport, any team. If your team went all in
Speaker 1: to win just one championship like the Rams did, how
Speaker 1: many years of irrelevancy would you be willing to trade
Speaker 1: for that? Five years? Ten years? I mean, how much
Speaker 1: is one championship season worth you? Okay, Wow, it's a
Speaker 1: wonderful question. I will say I would do five years
Speaker 1: for the Giants, five because it's been five years. It's
Speaker 1: been longer than that, five years for the Yankees. For
Speaker 1: the Knicks, I will trade my lifetime for one championship
Speaker 1: because it's been my lifetime. Yeah, you give me one,
Speaker 1: because I do think one Knicks championship is worth three
Speaker 1: anywhere else in the NBA. For the fans, I would
Speaker 1: take gone thirty years of irrelevancy for one championship, because
Speaker 1: we've been waiting and been irrelevant waiting for one championship
Speaker 1: for my entire life. How many of those games would
Speaker 1: you be at in the playoffs? Oh? As many? As
Speaker 1: as many as I could be. It's as many as
Speaker 1: Bree would allow. Yeah, if it could be all of them,
Speaker 1: I'd be there for all of them. I've actually I've
Speaker 1: been the one Knicks playoff game in the nineties and
Speaker 1: it was an incredible experience and it hasn't been many
Speaker 1: of them in modern day. I did not go to
Speaker 1: any Knicks Hawks two years ago, so that I would
Speaker 1: go to all of them if I could. That'd be
Speaker 1: fun to go just to see Trey Young. He's so
Speaker 1: fun in those playoffs. Yes, not for you, Not for you.
Speaker 1: No great villain, though, great villain. Love a hell. The
Speaker 1: NFL slate is so good this week, Jerry, I'm really excited.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a sneak preview for playoffs. Really obviously
Speaker 1: at the end of the show we dig deeper into
Speaker 1: it with Peter Andrew. But real quick as you're looking
Speaker 1: at the slate, I mean Thursday Bills Pats. Bills are
Speaker 1: minus four and a half favorite. We have the big
Speaker 1: return of DeShawn Wis Utson in Houston. There's a lot
Speaker 1: to like on this late What sticks out to you
Speaker 1: Bill's Pats on Thursday. That's a great Thursday night game.
Speaker 1: We deserve that Thursday night game that has playoff implications.
Speaker 1: The Pats are in them, must win obviously, my Giants
Speaker 1: and Commanders, although that might not like the World on
Speaker 1: Fire offensively, that's a playoff game, because right now they're,
Speaker 1: like you said, all four NFC East teams are in
Speaker 1: the playoffs. But and I'll definitely peek in under the
Speaker 1: Sean game to see what he's got. That being said,
Speaker 1: the two games I have circled as my heavyweight fights
Speaker 1: Dolphins Niners. I know, obviously it's a f C NFC
Speaker 1: so you can't really say it's a playoff preview, but
Speaker 1: these should be two high level playoff teams. What a
Speaker 1: fun matchup. I just cannot wait to watch that game.
Speaker 1: And then your Kansas City Chiefs, who are on a
Speaker 1: nice little run revenge game, except this time they're going
Speaker 1: to Cincinnati to play Joe Burrow in the Bengals, and
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow, Joe Barrow's kind of got the swag back
Speaker 1: that he found last year. It's starting to get it's
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow time. That is gonna be in saying game.
Speaker 1: And then just as like a little dessert, little palate cleanser,
Speaker 1: Chargers Raiders is always just like a psychopathic game, like
Speaker 1: you just don't know. I dare you to pick who's
Speaker 1: gonna win that game and be right, yeah, And Vegas
Speaker 1: is expecting both of those games to be close. Chiefs
Speaker 1: minus two and a half, Chargers minus. To look with
Speaker 1: the Raiders, I mean they put it on display this
Speaker 1: past weekend. There are pieces of the Raiders to like,
Speaker 1: mostly Josh Jacobs, but there's something there at the Raiders
Speaker 1: that just feels like they're never dead. No. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: last year they won so many close games and everyone
Speaker 1: wondered if they were for real. This year, they've lost
Speaker 1: all those close games, but they're starting to pick it
Speaker 1: back up. When you look at the roster, you certainly
Speaker 1: they have blue chippers all over the place. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see They're not gonna go quietly.
Speaker 1: I don't think the Raiders are gonna go quietly, although
Speaker 1: they're the most dysfunctional. By dysfunctional, I mean you just
Speaker 1: have no idea. Bipolar, a bi holer team, you just
Speaker 1: have no idea what you are going to get. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I've been excited to ask you about this game
Speaker 1: because you live there Michigan, Ohio state, and you have
Speaker 1: ton of Ohio state family members, and I'm just curious
Speaker 1: if you have confirmation that Columbus is still standing or
Speaker 1: have they just completely burnt it down. I would say
Speaker 1: it felt like a funeral in some ways. A lot
Speaker 1: of people looking at the ground muttering, a lot of
Speaker 1: my in laws certainly upset. I've definitely a lot of
Speaker 1: fun Ryan Day like, there's just a lot of that.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me because I like college football a lot.
Speaker 1: I watch college I don't have a team, so I don't.
Speaker 1: Yes you do. We've gone over this Coastal Carolina, Coastal Caroline,
Speaker 1: which I kind of stopped following their record after week three.
Speaker 1: I think they were three and a at one point.
Speaker 1: Let's check on them. Let's see old Coastal Carolina. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how are they doing well? When you type in Coastal
Speaker 1: Carolina on Google on the wait, give me a second,
Speaker 1: what's the name? Hey, they're six and two, tied with
Speaker 1: James Madison up in the Sun Belt. They're doing all right.
Speaker 1: Here we go. See they're nine and two overall, six
Speaker 1: and two in conference. So I felt two losses. I
Speaker 1: get it, but no, they it's a it's a real
Speaker 1: thing over here. Some of Breeze cousins go to Ohio
Speaker 1: State and I did a little temperature check their the
Speaker 1: vibes are not good. So I understand because Briand coached
Speaker 1: a horrible game. He coached scared. They had punts on
Speaker 1: the Michigan forty three in their own forty nine. They
Speaker 1: were so timid. They were terrible on both sides of
Speaker 1: the ball. And think about this with Michigan, they were
Speaker 1: the underdog, they were on the road, they without their
Speaker 1: best player, and Jim Harbaugh coached a beautiful game. Like
Speaker 1: everyone's saying, it's it's his best game he's ever coached,
Speaker 1: and it's a lot of college coaches best game ever coached.
Speaker 1: They were dominant from the start. They adjusted so perfectly.
Speaker 1: And now Harbor is too and oh in the last
Speaker 1: two years he started oh and five in this series,
Speaker 1: so it's crazy. Their quarterback J J. McCarthy, remember we
Speaker 1: had Pat forty on early on the season and he
Speaker 1: was walking us through the Michigan quarterback controversy. Well. J. J.
Speaker 1: McCarthy said that they knew Ohio State would try to
Speaker 1: stop their run game, so they went deep. They aired
Speaker 1: it out obviously, right, you don't need to be a
Speaker 1: scout to figure that one out. And he was so impressive.
Speaker 1: Michigan tipped a tail, was so impressive. But now Kid McNamara,
Speaker 1: who was the backup. Remember he was going to be
Speaker 1: the starter. He has entered the transfer portal. So in
Speaker 1: college football, you never know what you're gonna get. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you talk about Pat Forty, I remember asking him
Speaker 1: specifically about the two quarterback that and he did say,
Speaker 1: though he made that great point with Harbaugh that you
Speaker 1: know he's just getting the guy raps for the transpportal,
Speaker 1: which just tells me that this t is also fighting
Speaker 1: hard for Harrible. And then the run game, which did
Speaker 1: not get going right away. I mean Donovan Nevers finished
Speaker 1: with two sixteen yards or something like that with two TV.
Speaker 1: It was just a beating. It was an old fashioned
Speaker 1: butt kicking. And I'm excited to see I mean Michigan,
Speaker 1: I think they should have no problems when the next
Speaker 1: week and uh, it's gonna be a poor Ohio State.
Speaker 1: They we've gotta exp're spending, right. This is a good
Speaker 1: lesson for expanding because it really is just one bad
Speaker 1: week and they're on the outside looking in and probably
Speaker 1: will stay that way. Right, And I'm going to talk
Speaker 1: more about that in my Unleashed because don't say poor
Speaker 1: Ohio State. They laid an egg. This is what happened.
Speaker 1: So now the college football playoffs, so far as we
Speaker 1: go into conference championship week, Georgia one, Michigan too, although
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who make a good
Speaker 1: argument Michigan should be one, TCU three USC four, So
Speaker 1: unless we have a major upset on Saturday, those are set.
Speaker 1: Seating might change a little bit. But um yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: worried the playoff committee may screw this whole thing up
Speaker 1: because the only playoff implications are really the Pac twelve
Speaker 1: in Big twelve games. So it's interesting. Can I go
Speaker 1: ahead and get right to my unleashed because I can't
Speaker 1: hold back any longer. I feel like you're warmed up
Speaker 1: and ready to go. Let's do it. It's college football.
Speaker 1: Teams playing in their conference championship game should not be
Speaker 1: penalized for a poor performance or even a slight loss
Speaker 1: in an extra game that other teams don't have to play.
Speaker 1: It's a twelve game regular season. This is the week
Speaker 1: thirteenth game. And you're telling me if Georgia went twelve
Speaker 1: and oh, if Michigan went twelve and oh and loses
Speaker 1: in this game that some other teams aren't having to play,
Speaker 1: that someone else can get jumped. So those two teams,
Speaker 1: they're safe, they're fine. It's USC and TCU who could
Speaker 1: grew everything up here and let teams who didn't play
Speaker 1: in this weekend slate sneak into the College Football Playoff, rested, recovered, healthy, right,
Speaker 1: everything about it? So, Jerry, this is the ninth college
Speaker 1: football playoff, right, and historically three times we have seen
Speaker 1: an eleven and one team get in the playoff without
Speaker 1: playing in their conference championship. I think that's crazy. Most recently,
Speaker 1: a great example was when Alabama got in because number
Speaker 1: four undefeated Wisconsin lost in the Big Ten championship game
Speaker 1: and Alabama was able to sneak in there and Wisconsin
Speaker 1: then just had the one loss in Week thirteen. So
Speaker 1: the other two contenders for this year's scenario, as we
Speaker 1: talked about Ohio State in Alabama, they don't play this weekend.
Speaker 1: Ohio State and Alabama, by not winning their division, gets
Speaker 1: a bye. And it's it's not right that they still
Speaker 1: have a path. Like I said, we've seen it happen
Speaker 1: before three times, and Alabama has two losses. I don't
Speaker 1: think you should be punished for having to climb that hurdle.
Speaker 1: So I think this weekend should only count for seeding.
Speaker 1: If you g A loses, they're still in. If they
Speaker 1: lose close and Michigan does really, really well, they could switch.
Speaker 1: I could see Michigan go into one. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned real quick as a tangent, people making
Speaker 1: the argument Michigan should be one Georgia should be too
Speaker 1: right now is because Michigan's best win, which is over
Speaker 1: Ohio State, is better than you as best win over Tennessee.
Speaker 1: Michigan's second best win is over Penn State, and people
Speaker 1: think that's much better than Georgia's best win over Oregon.
Speaker 1: So see Jerry, This this stuff is confusing, and it
Speaker 1: does come down because people say they passed the eye test.
Speaker 1: If they really can't think of a reason why they
Speaker 1: want a team in the playoff, they'll just pull up
Speaker 1: some of that bullshit. So I don't want USC to lose,
Speaker 1: TCU to lose and Alabama or Ohio State get in
Speaker 1: because they didn't play a game this weekends. And I'm okay.
Speaker 1: Last thing, I'm okay with Utah beating out us See
Speaker 1: for a spot because it is a rematch and Utah
Speaker 1: had already won it, so I can say that the
Speaker 1: Pact twelve championship, that can be like a play in game.
Speaker 1: But again, all this stuff is very confusing, and I
Speaker 1: just don't think another conferences lost in their championship game
Speaker 1: should let a team from another conference slip in. That's
Speaker 1: a great only I felt, I'm gonna go on the
Speaker 1: record and say, and you've had a lot of bangers
Speaker 1: for your unlease, I'm gonna go on record and say
Speaker 1: that one do the breakout for that, I think we
Speaker 1: have to bring. I think we have to do the
Speaker 1: Instagram to where their breakout for that. On least, because
Speaker 1: I felt you there, I think you're right and I
Speaker 1: did college that they're just trying to figure out the
Speaker 1: way that they're limping to the expanded playoff, I think
Speaker 1: is what's happening. But I'm with you, I am a
Speaker 1: it would be very very strange. Well, let me just
Speaker 1: ask you this before I do my On least, who
Speaker 1: do you think Georgia would like to avoid? Say they
Speaker 1: stick with the number one seed, which is more than likely,
Speaker 1: who do you think they want to avoid for that?
Speaker 1: For see, who do you not want to see rolling
Speaker 1: in it? Well, look usc top to bottom. They're not
Speaker 1: the strongest team. But Caleb Williams is a bona fide star.
Speaker 1: He's the clear cut favorite for Heisman. He can pull
Speaker 1: off amazing things. He's a jaw dropping quarterback. So I
Speaker 1: just don't trust going against it. And here I'm speaking
Speaker 1: as a Georgia fanal of bias too, but I think
Speaker 1: that's probably who you g A doesn't want to face.
Speaker 1: TCU doesn't scare me so much, but USC and Caleb
Speaker 1: Williams would be a handful for any team, even the
Speaker 1: nation's leading defense. Well listen, my on least is not
Speaker 1: nearly going to be as passionate as yours and filled
Speaker 1: with logic and things that actually track. But that being said,
Speaker 1: you know, at this point, I'm all about circumventing the expected.
Speaker 1: Let's try to rid ourselves of some of the traditions.
Speaker 1: I get it, some of them we like to hold onto.
Speaker 1: And this is counterintuitive to the game we watched on Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: because the Lions were very, very entertaining on Thanksgiving. That
Speaker 1: was a great game versus Builds, arguably the best game
Speaker 1: of the slate. That being said, can we get off
Speaker 1: the Lions and the Cowboys always playing on Thanksgiving? I
Speaker 1: get that, I get the tradition. I love it. It's
Speaker 1: been long enough. Maybe can we have one of them
Speaker 1: play and they alternate every year on Thanksgiving? Because I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed Pat's vikings. It was really nice to see
Speaker 1: just that kind of matchup. So maybe we have either
Speaker 1: Dallas or Detroit play and for that year, and then
Speaker 1: the other two games are filled with just teams we've
Speaker 1: never really seen on Thanksgiving before, and then next year
Speaker 1: it will be Detroit's turn. Do we really have to
Speaker 1: have both the Cowboys and the Lions every year on Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1: So half break tradition, Give me one, and now listen
Speaker 1: to this. This is the one that you're gonna roll
Speaker 1: your eyes out. I get the three game. Maybe we
Speaker 1: dropped the two because it is hard to watch three
Speaker 1: games on Thanksgiving, So maybe we dropped down the two
Speaker 1: games on Thanksgiving, and then may maybe we put the
Speaker 1: third game on Friday boom a day. We're all all
Speaker 1: just sitting around recovering, and we're all just like, oh,
Speaker 1: why do we eat so much? Why do we drink
Speaker 1: so much? I'm so tired, I don't want to move.
Speaker 1: What better thing to do than to have like a
Speaker 1: nice one pm or four pm game imagine that Bill's
Speaker 1: Pats game was just four pm the next day. You'd
Speaker 1: be psyched on Friday. I'll tell you why, because college
Speaker 1: football kind of owns that Friday. They could have Saturday.
Speaker 1: They own Saturday. No, that's a that's a big day
Speaker 1: in college football. I guess that's my colleague. Well, the
Speaker 1: main unleashed part was get rid of one of the
Speaker 1: Lions or the Cowboys and have them. They could just
Speaker 1: alternate every year. You guys don't get to own Thanksgiving forever.
Speaker 1: It's not cheap shot at Lions fans. You guys have
Speaker 1: stunk for a hundred years, and this year you're very
Speaker 1: fun to watch. I don't understand. While you deserve to
Speaker 1: be on thanksgive you've done nothing to deserve to play
Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving every year. I disagree purely for the sake
Speaker 1: of tradition. I'm a sucker for tradition. I don't even
Speaker 1: know why those two teams play on Thanksgiving? Do you
Speaker 1: know exactly? I know more? Right, I know more about
Speaker 1: college football than I do about why those teams play
Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving. Oh my gosh. Well, you know who knows
Speaker 1: a lot more than the two of us is our
Speaker 1: guest Jeff Perlman. Let's go ahead and bring him in.
Speaker 1: From the eight six Mets to the nineties Cowboys, and
Speaker 1: from Walter Payton to Barry Bonds. He's the author of
Speaker 1: some of the best sports books ever written. We can
Speaker 1: both attest to that. His latest is called The Last Folk.
Speaker 1: He wrote the life and myth of Bo Jackson. It's
Speaker 1: the best seller, and he is going to have so
Speaker 1: many good stories for us today. Let's bring in Jeff Command. Okay, Jeff,
Speaker 1: this book is another incredible read. I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: sent me a copy. I've started it over Thanksgiving break.
Speaker 1: As always, you go into such great detail about the man,
Speaker 1: not just the athlete. You talk to their family, their ends, everyone.
Speaker 1: So when you're writing these books, does it feel like
Speaker 1: you're almost thinking like them, living with them? Does it
Speaker 1: feel like you almost take them on? I wrote a
Speaker 1: book years ago about Walter Payton. It was called Sweetness,
Speaker 1: And there was this moment one night I took a run.
Speaker 1: I've told my kids about this. It was so weird.
Speaker 1: I was taking a run. I was living in New
Speaker 1: Roshell in New York. I was running and I felt
Speaker 1: like Walter Payton was running next to me. I was
Speaker 1: deep in it all, and I just like, I almost
Speaker 1: feel like having some delusional conversation with Walter Payton. It's
Speaker 1: so weird and it sounds like I was on drugs
Speaker 1: and I really wasn't. And you actually get to that
Speaker 1: point when you research and research and research and all
Speaker 1: you do it's not a healthy way to live. Like
Speaker 1: all you do is think about one person all the time, nonstopping.
Speaker 1: My wife is like I don't want to hear any
Speaker 1: more about bow Jackson, and my kids like I don't
Speaker 1: want to hear any more about bo Jackson. But all
Speaker 1: you want to do is talk about Bo Jackson. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very immersive and very weird. The title is a
Speaker 1: great one. Is the title something that you work off
Speaker 1: of from the beginning, like in your mind you kind
Speaker 1: of know, or is it you have to do all
Speaker 1: the research, start putting the words on paper. The last
Speaker 1: folk hero I mean that is that that's the first
Speaker 1: person I really could think of as bo Jackson. Oh well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. It actually wasn't. Um. What happened is
Speaker 1: there's a really great writer named Joe Poznanzi who's doing
Speaker 1: a lot about baseball through the years. And at some
Speaker 1: point he referred to Bo Jackson something he wrote as
Speaker 1: the last folk hero, and he was actually referring to
Speaker 1: the the famous sort of Bo Jackson throwing out Harold
Speaker 1: Reynolds at Home Plate in Seattle. And if you watch,
Speaker 1: which is great, and if you watch a replay, and
Speaker 1: you probably would't even be aware of this unless you
Speaker 1: watch it, we never actually see Bow release the ball
Speaker 1: like um because it was shot with one camera, so
Speaker 1: the camera goes to Harold Reynolds drowning. Third. You never
Speaker 1: see Bow release the ball. And Joe is writing about
Speaker 1: how with Bo, so much of what he did and
Speaker 1: so many of his feats we don't actually have literal
Speaker 1: documentation of, and even this famous play, we don't see
Speaker 1: it all. And he said, he really is the last
Speaker 1: folk hero because nowadays even someone like show Hey Otani.
Speaker 1: Way before he came to the Angels, we had video
Speaker 1: of him in Japan, even though we're miles and miles
Speaker 1: away of doing things. And with Bow he ran a
Speaker 1: four one three forty at Auburn, we don't see it.
Speaker 1: He ran a four one seven on grass with the
Speaker 1: Raiders in Camp, we don't see it. All these plays
Speaker 1: he did, these things he did in high school. He
Speaker 1: went back to back state to Catholan championships at Alabama.
Speaker 1: We don't have any video of it, so a lot
Speaker 1: of it really feels like folklore when it comes to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the size and speed he's it's like he's
Speaker 1: built in a lab. He's faster than Tyree Kill, like
Speaker 1: you mentioned, and he's thirty pounds bigger. So when there's
Speaker 1: so much to marvel at in both football and baseball,
Speaker 1: was their story that did come up that you found
Speaker 1: out not to be too? That was a myth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Actually it's kind of funny. He wrote an autobiography in
Speaker 1: called Bow Knows Bow, and he did it with Dick Schapp.
Speaker 1: It was a book I loved when I was younger. Right,
Speaker 1: It was like a definitive sports biography for sure. It
Speaker 1: went to number two on the New York Times list.
Speaker 1: It was like a big seller. And I was pitching
Speaker 1: this book my book two different publishing houses. I talked
Speaker 1: about this thing, but wrote about in his book, which
Speaker 1: is at at Auburn. He went over his first twenty
Speaker 1: one in baseball with twenty one strikeout, So over twenty
Speaker 1: one and he struck out all twenty one times, and
Speaker 1: I kept saying everyone, his recovery from that is just amazing.
Speaker 1: It's it's amazing, it's it's amazing. And I would interview
Speaker 1: people from Auburn baseball from back then and they'd say, yeah,
Speaker 1: over twenty one. Over twenty one's crazy over strikeouts. But
Speaker 1: then I started digging through the old like Auburn wonderful
Speaker 1: sports information department sent me all the box scores first
Speaker 1: game Illinois State two for five. Whit wait what I mean?
Speaker 1: So they're also like in the same book he wrote
Speaker 1: about his first ever college football run. It was a
Speaker 1: game against wake Forest is freshman year, and in his
Speaker 1: book he plowed into the line for no game. Well,
Speaker 1: no game. Why watch a video of that game and
Speaker 1: his first run is a handoff up the gut for
Speaker 1: nine yards. So I'm not saying he's lying in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form, But I do think memory is a
Speaker 1: tricky thing and one of the important things about biography
Speaker 1: and me hopefully biographers as you go back and you
Speaker 1: confirm and you reconfirm, and you check and you check
Speaker 1: and you find out that things that you thought were
Speaker 1: actually art, it's fascinating. Yeah, that's something I've spent hours
Speaker 1: on YouTube watching just Bo Jackson throwing people out because
Speaker 1: he would throw the ball and the ball would actually
Speaker 1: still be picking up speed as it would enter either
Speaker 1: the first basin or the third basin of the catcher's glove,
Speaker 1: which I always thought was insane and something. I think
Speaker 1: that adds to his legend. And I'm pretty obsessed with
Speaker 1: this and I'm trying to work on stuff. I don't
Speaker 1: think we'll we'll probably and they we'll never see a
Speaker 1: dual athlete again, right, fair to say, or at least
Speaker 1: baseball football. I know Dion did it, and he was
Speaker 1: healthier than Bo Jackson, so that certainly helped him. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I just think if you're an amazing football player,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go play football. And we've seen people toy
Speaker 1: with the notion of like Russell Wilson, I got drafted
Speaker 1: fifth round. I don't think we ever see that again.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a bummer. I've written about guys, you know,
Speaker 1: wrote about a breath Fire biography, wrote wrote a Walter
Speaker 1: Payton biography, wrote a bo biography. I don't know, Dwight
Speaker 1: Gooden and Darryk Strawberry growing up in the match. Always
Speaker 1: different guys, and what they all sort of shared from
Speaker 1: their boyhoods is they went out in yards and beat
Speaker 1: the crap out of each other, and they play tackle
Speaker 1: football with their buddies. They were leaping over ditches and
Speaker 1: climbing over fences and finding making up games in the yard,
Speaker 1: finding rocks and throwing them and finding stick all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And nowadays out here in southern California, it's ridiculous. Like
Speaker 1: some kid is seven years old and even shows slight
Speaker 1: talent pitching. Well, the next thing you know, there's some
Speaker 1: guy who used to pitch for Trip Away Wallah Walla,
Speaker 1: and he's he's a pitching coach. Now we need to
Speaker 1: get them with that. And but Mom, I want to
Speaker 1: play basketball. No, no, no, we're gonna have you because
Speaker 1: those two other kids up the block, they're already in
Speaker 1: this program that's amazing and it helps develop pictures, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we've wiped out, just wiped out
Speaker 1: generations of should have been multi sport athletes. And what
Speaker 1: I think we've done along with that is really killed
Speaker 1: much of the joy of childhood, which is playing killed
Speaker 1: the carrier in new yard, which is playing pickup hoops,
Speaker 1: which is playing multiple sports. So they'll probably be other
Speaker 1: ones who come along, but few and far in between.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point, especially all his parents. I
Speaker 1: think that's important to remember. My husband always tells us
Speaker 1: story his neighborhood players. They played his game called Sam
Speaker 1: at the goal line and he just had to stand
Speaker 1: there and just get tackled. Why do you think both
Speaker 1: first picked baseball? Oh? What's It's actually a good story.
Speaker 1: So he um Bow was drafted. So Bo was playing
Speaker 1: baseball football at Auburn and he was very good at both.
Speaker 1: But you know, he was a Heisman Trophy winner in football,
Speaker 1: and he was gonna make a lot more money in football.
Speaker 1: And it says it's a senior year at Auburn. He
Speaker 1: has already won the Heisman trophies playing baseball, and the
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay Buccaneers are coming off of a two and
Speaker 1: fourteen season. They suck. They're going to have the number
Speaker 1: one pick in the draft. The owner of the Buccaneers,
Speaker 1: Ukulver House, sends his private plane to Auburn to pick
Speaker 1: Bow up the morning of the Auburn baseball game, flying
Speaker 1: him to Tampa Bay for a physical and then flying
Speaker 1: back for the game, and back in the day in
Speaker 1: the SEC, you couldnt be pro in one sport amateur
Speaker 1: and another in any way, shape or form. So Auburn
Speaker 1: is playing Alabama Birmingham that night at Auburn, the coaches
Speaker 1: hal Barrett and he's like, where's bow And another is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he flew to Tampa. And I was like, he did
Speaker 1: what to Tampa? On the Bucks plane, He's like, please
Speaker 1: tell me your kid, and please tell me your kidding.
Speaker 1: Wasn't kidding. He actually lost his eligibility from that flight.
Speaker 1: The funny follow up is the Buccaneer. He swears off
Speaker 1: the Buccaneers. At that point He's basically like, f the Buccaneers,
Speaker 1: I'm never playing for this team. Blah blah blah. The
Speaker 1: Buccaneers get the number one pick, they draft bo anyway,
Speaker 1: the owners convince he's gonna be able to sign. One
Speaker 1: of my favorite moments in the book and favorite moments
Speaker 1: of reporting ever, is um Both flies to Tampa to
Speaker 1: meet with the Buccaneers after the draft because his agents
Speaker 1: say you should. Steve Young is a quarterback for the
Speaker 1: Bucks and the owner of the Buccaneers, Ukulver House, says
Speaker 1: to Steve Young, let's come with me. I want to
Speaker 1: take Bow out for a state dinner. Help me woo
Speaker 1: bo Jackson. So, Steve Young, it's your culver House, it's
Speaker 1: bo Jackson. Uculver House excuses himself in the table and
Speaker 1: bo Jackson leans in the Steve Young and he goes
Speaker 1: Steve to see you know, there's no fan way I
Speaker 1: ever signed with this team, and Steve Young all right, man,
Speaker 1: my work just done. That's just heat. So he was
Speaker 1: The Buccaneers really forced his hand and made him say,
Speaker 1: to hell with you. I'm not playing for you. I
Speaker 1: told you I wouldn't play with you. And then the
Speaker 1: Royals came along and made him a really good offer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And on paper, though with the Raiders, it certainly seemed
Speaker 1: like it was the perfect fit. Right. My first members
Speaker 1: of bo Jackson are honestly tech Bobawl like so many
Speaker 1: other kids my age. It wasn't always the perfect fit though,
Speaker 1: organizationally for him, right, because it was a little hazy
Speaker 1: for me being a kid watching. But I just always
Speaker 1: remember they were talking about Bow and the Raiders not
Speaker 1: necessarily being a match made in heaven. Well, the issue
Speaker 1: was they already had. Marcus Allen was also a Heisman
Speaker 1: Trophy winning half back and really good. It's funny Marcus
Speaker 1: Allen was much more beloved as a Raider than Bo Jackson.
Speaker 1: The players on the Raiders loved Marcus Allen, loved everything
Speaker 1: about him, and when Bo came along, Marcus Allen actually
Speaker 1: shifted to fullback and did it willingly. And if you
Speaker 1: watch that Monday Night game where Bogo is crazy, all
Speaker 1: those blocks are set up by Marcus Allen. So it
Speaker 1: wasn't an ideal fit as far as sort of two
Speaker 1: half backs be lined together. But Marcus Allen was such
Speaker 1: a freaking consummate professional that he made it work. And
Speaker 1: the funny thing also is, since we're here, since Olivia,
Speaker 1: you have the Packer ties. The Green Bay Packers draft
Speaker 1: Tony Manderts number two overall, and that's like the draft
Speaker 1: where the only guy you didn't want to draft Tony Manners.
Speaker 1: That's that's Dion Sanders, Troy Aikman, you know, Barry Sanders,
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Packers take Tony Manderts number two. He
Speaker 1: holds out because he doesn't want to play in Green Bay,
Speaker 1: and Al Davis calls the Packers and offers Bo Jackson
Speaker 1: for the rights of Tony Mandricks and the Packers turn
Speaker 1: them down and Bo Jackson stays with the Raiders. That
Speaker 1: would have been a good deal for the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 1: He would have Bretton Olivia. That's gotta hurt. That's got hurt.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. In nine, I think that was my grandpa's
Speaker 1: first year with the Packers. So I wonder if he
Speaker 1: was in that draft room. I'm hoping not, but we're
Speaker 1: gonna say he wasn't. I think my research wasn't. There
Speaker 1: was out getting a burger the whole time. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: curious with Bo. Do you think there was a good
Speaker 1: fit for him in the NFL? Maybe if he could
Speaker 1: have played for one city like Dion Sanders in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: I think he was made for a small market. He
Speaker 1: wasn't a guy going out, he wasn't a guy partying.
Speaker 1: He was married to that point, had kids that kind
Speaker 1: of sewed his oats at Auburn. I actually think a
Speaker 1: market like Atlanta would have been great for him. A
Speaker 1: southern market playing in front of sort of yet a
Speaker 1: big family, playing in front of relatives. Kansas City and
Speaker 1: baseball was a great market for him. Kansasy's like the
Speaker 1: perfect city. For a guy like that size wise, so
Speaker 1: you know, Chiefs just small to mid major. He was
Speaker 1: not a big city guy, Adam. He was drafted out
Speaker 1: of high school in the second round by the New
Speaker 1: York Yankees. And it's actually funny. The Yankees draft him
Speaker 1: super high. We're really into him, thought he was gonna
Speaker 1: be a mega star. The scout was a guy named
Speaker 1: Gus Pelouse. He goes to knock on his door and
Speaker 1: Bo Jackson won't to answer the door. He calls Bo
Speaker 1: Jackson won't pick up the phone. They call Bo Jackson's
Speaker 1: high school coats and say, um, we want to fly
Speaker 1: you and Bow to New York for Yankees Red Sox.
Speaker 1: We just want to fly you there to show you
Speaker 1: what we have to offer. Bo's high school coats goes
Speaker 1: to Bone. He's like, Yankees, Red Sox, we can go.
Speaker 1: You didn't want to do it. Was terrified of New York,
Speaker 1: had no interest in New York. Didn't even know the
Speaker 1: Yankees and Red tie more rivalry Green Bay. Weirdly, I
Speaker 1: don't know about the cold, but market wise would have
Speaker 1: been a gray market for Bo Jackson. The other thing
Speaker 1: that always stood out to me with Bow as a kid,
Speaker 1: I mentioned tech Mobile, but then you know, and me
Speaker 1: being like a sneaker head and all those campaigns that
Speaker 1: Nike started doing when they really started picking up steam.
Speaker 1: I always think somehow, too, we always still hear boos
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's somehow we almost feel like
Speaker 1: we talked about it enough for like what that campaign
Speaker 1: wasn't what that shoe was it was if you remember
Speaker 1: back then, it was either like Jordan's, which were super
Speaker 1: high and clunky, and that's really it. I mean, I
Speaker 1: also loved like the Michael chang Reebok pumps. Outside of that,
Speaker 1: there was nothing, And I just feel like you never
Speaker 1: really got enough credit for. However, the I don't know
Speaker 1: what he had to do with the actual impetus of hey,
Speaker 1: I want a cross trainer, but that campaign and that
Speaker 1: shoe I think is part of what we see a
Speaker 1: lot today. Still. Oh yeah, it's one of the biggest.
Speaker 1: The whole bow Nose campaign is one of the biggest
Speaker 1: ad campagne of all time. One of the greatest moments
Speaker 1: in marketing in sports crossover history is um So Bow
Speaker 1: made his only Major League off Star game and he
Speaker 1: was starting and Tony LaRusso was a manager for the
Speaker 1: American League. He had both lead off just for the moment,
Speaker 1: and it was in Anaheim. Beautiful day, picture perfect day.
Speaker 1: This is when people watch the All Star Game like
Speaker 1: and mass like it was a national viewing audience. In
Speaker 1: the booth Vince Scully and Ronald Reagan. Bo Jackson leads
Speaker 1: off second pitch of the game. He hits a dead
Speaker 1: homer straight to center. Feel beautiful trotting around the bases,
Speaker 1: looks like a god. That same game, in the fourth inning,
Speaker 1: Nike made this major ad by to premiere the Bow.
Speaker 1: You don't know Didley ad with Bo Diddley and all
Speaker 1: the other and so they were all the Nike executives
Speaker 1: had met up at Mickey Mantle's restaurant in Manhattan to
Speaker 1: watch the game because this game at everything to Nike.
Speaker 1: This was the big unveiling of this ad campaign. Bow
Speaker 1: hits a home run and in Mickey Mantle's restaurant, all
Speaker 1: these Nike ad execs are going crazy. They're jumping up
Speaker 1: and down, they're hugging, they're screaming. All the other pagents
Speaker 1: are sure like what, well, I don't know what that
Speaker 1: was going on here, but it was a great moment
Speaker 1: of synergy. Sports marketing, everything coming together and that campaigns
Speaker 1: is skyrocket. And the funny thing also interestingly of it,
Speaker 1: Bo was not very charismatic. Bow had a severe stutter.
Speaker 1: And if you watch those ads he's in that ed,
Speaker 1: he says nothing. In all the ads together, he probably
Speaker 1: says six words total. It's not about what he said,
Speaker 1: it's about what he symbolized. The craziest thing to me
Speaker 1: with Bo Jackson now is that he just disappeared. He's
Speaker 1: a grandpa in suburban Chicago. I know you spoke with him,
Speaker 1: but he didn't want to be interviewed for the book.
Speaker 1: Why do you think he's so private? What do you
Speaker 1: know of his life now or his thoughts on the
Speaker 1: book or on his career. So the thing I love
Speaker 1: about him, and in a way the thing that worked
Speaker 1: for this book, like if he were like now, like
Speaker 1: doing color commentating raider games, there'd be much less mystique
Speaker 1: to him. Right if he was out all the time, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm Bo Jackson. If he was always commenting on I'm
Speaker 1: better than Derren Kenry or I'm better than Mike Trout, like,
Speaker 1: it would kind of ruin the illusion of it all.
Speaker 1: And the beauty is really the illusion that he was here.
Speaker 1: He was this prominent guy. Poof he gets hurt and
Speaker 1: he kind of vanishes, and that's sort of the appeal
Speaker 1: of it all. He lives in Burridge, Illinois. He owns
Speaker 1: a bunch of companies, shovels his own driveway. He's been
Speaker 1: married for almost forty years. He's three kids. He recently
Speaker 1: had a grandson. He does autograph signings every now and then.
Speaker 1: He's super, super insanely guarded. I spoke to him at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this project for about thirty minutes on
Speaker 1: the phone. He was lovely. He said, Um, I get
Speaker 1: asked to do things all the time. I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna help you. I don't have a problem with
Speaker 1: you writing the book, but I'm just I'm like, he
Speaker 1: just doesn't want a big neon sign over his head,
Speaker 1: saying I'm Bo Jackson. It's like kind of respect to
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I never take any offense, and
Speaker 1: I kind of respect the dignity of it. But have
Speaker 1: you talked with him since it came out? No, this
Speaker 1: is why I've been told. I haven't ready talked about this.
Speaker 1: The book comes out and there is a part when
Speaker 1: he was in college at Auburn when he was kind
Speaker 1: of engaged, sort of kinded to two women at the
Speaker 1: same time, and whatever, you're three years old. I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 1: we do, we do. People do do stupid things. When
Speaker 1: you're twenty three years old, when you're writing a whole
Speaker 1: biography of someone's life, you do have to at least
Speaker 1: sort of and you find out these kind of things
Speaker 1: you got to write about it. It's not sles, it's
Speaker 1: it's the thing. But I was told his wife wasn't
Speaker 1: crazy about that, So yeah, what's I get? I actually
Speaker 1: do get like I of course, so he tweeted out
Speaker 1: something like, if a biography is unauthorized, blah blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, you need to get it from the real source.
Speaker 1: I interviewed people for this book, bo Jackson, that book
Speaker 1: Boe knows bow he um he wrote to a dick Shop,
Speaker 1: which means Dick Shap wrote it. Any interviewed bow a
Speaker 1: million times for Dick Shap donated all his notes, everything,
Speaker 1: all the audio recordings to the Auburn University Library. Someone
Speaker 1: made me aware of that. So when I basically had
Speaker 1: five d pages have typed out bo Jackson interviews most
Speaker 1: of which have never been used before from when bow
Speaker 1: is interviewed by Dick snap In. So I busted my
Speaker 1: ass on this. Yeah, and I want to talk about
Speaker 1: some of your su because oliving. Jeff and I have
Speaker 1: talked over the years, because I've been a fan of
Speaker 1: his work forever. I've always been saying, this book's a movie,
Speaker 1: this books a show, this books the movie, this book show.
Speaker 1: It just was such a no brainer to me and
Speaker 1: to and to you too, I think, Jeff, but it
Speaker 1: really when I heard about Showtime, I'll tell you, like,
Speaker 1: the first thing I went through my head was amazing
Speaker 1: book to make into a show. I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: see how they executed it. And I always wondered, like,
Speaker 1: can you actually cast Magic Johnson? Can you cast Kareem?
Speaker 1: Can you? And I was just as an actor too,
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, like I just want to see how
Speaker 1: that goes. And what a delight because everyone in that show.
Speaker 1: I never for one second bumped on the fact of like, ah,
Speaker 1: that's not magic. I just was in. It sucked me in.
Speaker 1: I thought the performances were great. And what makes me
Speaker 1: most happy now is I want this to be a
Speaker 1: run on. Jeff Pearlman books, because I always said, eighty
Speaker 1: six mets that's to me, the greatest sports story that
Speaker 1: we have not seen really on screen. That always been
Speaker 1: I'm a Yankee fan saying, no, I know, Olivia, you
Speaker 1: probably have some gun slinger stuff. So yeah, what was
Speaker 1: that feeling like seeing one of your books be really
Speaker 1: be put on the big, small, big screen because it's HBO. Wait,
Speaker 1: so I know, like I mean serious, like I know
Speaker 1: this is like kind of old hat for you to
Speaker 1: a certain degree, Like you've been through it, You've been
Speaker 1: through TV, You've been on different shows. I've been very successful.
Speaker 1: But I feel like for me personally, there was a moment.
Speaker 1: I really mean this, Like, first of all, people option
Speaker 1: your stuff and you never think anything's gonna come of it.
Speaker 1: And someone will give you a little money and they'll say, oh,
Speaker 1: I know someone who knows someone. You know how it is.
Speaker 1: It's always like nonsense. And I had that happen a lot.
Speaker 1: So when this happened, there was a huge moment for me.
Speaker 1: And they had this premiere party in l A and
Speaker 1: my wife was out of town. I took my two
Speaker 1: kids or both teenagers, and there was this moment my
Speaker 1: son at the time, I think was fourteen and my
Speaker 1: daughter was seventeen, and um, they had a they had
Speaker 1: a cigar bar. They had a rolling your cigar bar.
Speaker 1: My seventeen year old daughter goes, we should smoke a cigar.
Speaker 1: We're totally smoking. And it was me, my seventeen year
Speaker 1: old daughter, my fourteen year old son, the actor Mike
Speaker 1: Checklist and his family and we're we're smoking cigars. I
Speaker 1: don't even smoke cigars, and certainly my kids don't smoke
Speaker 1: cigars at least not that I know of. And we're
Speaker 1: having this moment and it's on a show based on
Speaker 1: a book I wrote. It was just one of the
Speaker 1: greatest moments of my life. It really was one of
Speaker 1: the most rewarding emotional moments of my life. And that
Speaker 1: it's like, my parents don't care about sports at all,
Speaker 1: my parents, but they see this and like you could
Speaker 1: see the pride in them. I know it sounds corny,
Speaker 1: but it's really true, like the pride that they have
Speaker 1: and it means something to them. And even just people
Speaker 1: you went to high school with, their college with, who
Speaker 1: are like, oh my god, oh my god. It's cool
Speaker 1: that it brings some light to people, especially during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: during that rough spell, it just really brought something to
Speaker 1: people into me. So it was it was freaking amazing.
Speaker 1: It was great, And I think it's gonna be more
Speaker 1: of that because now the seal is broken. We've all
Speaker 1: seen you can cast magic, you can't cast you can
Speaker 1: cast Therrel Strawberry, you can cast Dwight good In. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know. I I think I just have always been
Speaker 1: a fan, So I'm excited to see. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you have a preference of if you could pick
Speaker 1: any one of your books to be made next. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you have a preference. But it's funny
Speaker 1: the one book that has never been optioned, so different
Speaker 1: books get option that's not a bragging point, like that
Speaker 1: just happened. You write books, and people option books. The
Speaker 1: one book that's never been optioned is my Walter Payton
Speaker 1: book Sweetness. And I just consider his life to be
Speaker 1: so dramatic and obviously coming from rural, rural Mississippi, becoming
Speaker 1: the superstar megastar in Chicago and then really falling into
Speaker 1: this post career depression and then having this kind of
Speaker 1: curates his battle at the end of his life with
Speaker 1: bioduct cancer. It just feels really narrative to me, but
Speaker 1: nobody has shown any interest that would be the one though. Actually,
Speaker 1: in a weird way, I love that speaking of rural Mississippi.
Speaker 1: What drew you to Bret fire story? Because Gunslinger has
Speaker 1: been one of my favorite books before you and I
Speaker 1: ever discussed that. Yeah, it's actually funny. I don't want
Speaker 1: to write a five book. Here's what happened. I Uh,
Speaker 1: my dream book was a book about the USFL, the
Speaker 1: old United States Football League from the nineteen eighties, and
Speaker 1: I couldn't get a deal. Ever, I could not get
Speaker 1: a deal for the USFL book. Nobody. My agent, who's great,
Speaker 1: literally said to me Jeff, because I kept bringing it up,
Speaker 1: He's like, nobody wants an f the usf AL book.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I know I can get a deal.
Speaker 1: I know I can get a deal. So publishing company
Speaker 1: Holt Mifflin I pitched Fire because I thought he is iconic,
Speaker 1: he's a really interesting story, etcetera, etcetera. But I said,
Speaker 1: I'll do it, but I want to be able to
Speaker 1: do this USFL book. So I took a little less
Speaker 1: money for five and they let me write this USFL book,
Speaker 1: and the USFL book made the New York Times list,
Speaker 1: which was like a real vindictive moment for me, nothing
Speaker 1: various moment for me. Far was fascinating. Five ended up
Speaker 1: being one of the most interesting books I've ever worked on.
Speaker 1: And one of the weirdest moments in my career period
Speaker 1: is um I d mned his his sister Brandy on
Speaker 1: Facebook before I went to Mississippi, and I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: my name is Jeff Berrema, working a book. And this
Speaker 1: is before Brett even said anything to me. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm working on this book. I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: in Mississippi's or anyway you want to get coffee. And
Speaker 1: she said, well, DM me when you come down. Well,
Speaker 1: I go to Mississippi, I mean the Kill, Mississippi where
Speaker 1: breats from and um I d m her and She's like, well,
Speaker 1: my mom and I are at the house. Why don't
Speaker 1: you just come by the house? Now Brett Farve has
Speaker 1: not agreed to talk to me, right, But I'm like okay,
Speaker 1: and I uh. I go to the house. It's Brett's
Speaker 1: childhood home on like Farv Lane in Mississippi Kill, Mississippi,
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting there with his mom, Banita, who's lovely,
Speaker 1: his sister Brandy lovely, and and we're talking and at
Speaker 1: one point his mom says, so, has is Brett talking
Speaker 1: to you for the book? And to me, this is
Speaker 1: like this is the kiss of death. This is the
Speaker 1: moment where they're like, oh, well, I go no, I
Speaker 1: don't know if he's going to hern he hasn't agreed
Speaker 1: to yet, and she goes all right, and she literally
Speaker 1: sent me home with his scrap books. She sent me
Speaker 1: home New York with scrap books which I borrowed photocophy
Speaker 1: sent back. It was unbelievable ball and I remember this.
Speaker 1: I was driving away from their house and I called
Speaker 1: my wife, Katherine, and I'm like, I just had a
Speaker 1: great experience with Brett Farre's mom and sister and she's like,
Speaker 1: Brett hasn't agreed to talk to you. And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but they're really cool. They don't mind. And she's like,
Speaker 1: don't you think that's a little weird? And I was
Speaker 1: like I don't know, and she's like, it's really weird.
Speaker 1: And then later on I was like, oh, that is
Speaker 1: really weird. She's like, imagine if someone's doing a book
Speaker 1: on you. You didn't want him to, and your mom
Speaker 1: and dad just decided to talk anyway. But it worked out.
Speaker 1: I mean it was great. You know what this is
Speaker 1: like fast forward to now, this is what it's like
Speaker 1: to have your parents on Twitter. People ask the stuff
Speaker 1: all I think my mom tweeted Elon Musk the other
Speaker 1: day something. I know. It's just like, well, that's like
Speaker 1: when your parents are on to that's the modern day version.
Speaker 1: Mama far with the scrap books. That's as well. I've
Speaker 1: got to ask, since not everyone's read the book, what
Speaker 1: is your favorite story? And obviously the narrative on Brett
Speaker 1: Farve has changed since you wrote the book, but what
Speaker 1: is your favorite Brett story from that book? Well, what
Speaker 1: I really love is, um, this isn't a story about
Speaker 1: kind of a whole thing. Is when he was playing
Speaker 1: in high school in Mississippi, his dad, IRV, was a coach,
Speaker 1: and Um, they had a halfback named Charles Burton who
Speaker 1: was really good, but he was just your prototypical high
Speaker 1: school halfback. He was like five nine, probably a buck sixty.
Speaker 1: And here's your dad fire and he's dedicated to the run.
Speaker 1: We're gonna run the ball, We're gonna run the ball.
Speaker 1: You literally have one of the ten greatest quarterbacks in
Speaker 1: NFL future quarterbacks in NFL history on your team. And
Speaker 1: he threw the ball six times a game. Times of
Speaker 1: games he would not throw and every now and then
Speaker 1: Brett would disobey and launched some eighty yard and it
Speaker 1: would be this magnificent moment. In the stands would go crazy,
Speaker 1: and his dad would be furious at him, absolutely furious
Speaker 1: at him for disobeying his orders that we're going to
Speaker 1: run and gain four yards. And I just found the
Speaker 1: dynamic between Brett and IRV, this old school, hardcore, disciplined
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this coach and Brett, this wild stallion
Speaker 1: who just wanted to launch the ball quarterback, and that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's why you wound up Southern miss because
Speaker 1: nobody knew about him. Literally nobody knew about Brett fire
Speaker 1: He was didn't exist in a college football landscape. Are
Speaker 1: you keeping up with what he's going through right now?
Speaker 1: And what are your thoughts on it now that you're
Speaker 1: pretty close to his story. I'll be totally honest about it.
Speaker 1: I'm horrified and disgusted. I mean, Brett Farve, you're from Mississippi, right,
Speaker 1: you're from Mississippi. It is a dirt poor state. That's
Speaker 1: not me projecting it. It's factually a dirt poor state.
Speaker 1: As a poor state in America, there is money that
Speaker 1: is designated for welfare recipients. That is money that's needed
Speaker 1: by people. That's not some some pork government pork to
Speaker 1: have that money diverted and to be involved in some
Speaker 1: kind of scheme where it's diverted to pay for a
Speaker 1: volleyball arena at your alma mater because your daughter plays
Speaker 1: volleyball there. If that's true, which it appears to be,
Speaker 1: it doesn't just hurt my heart as a guy who
Speaker 1: wrote that biography. It just discussed me as a human being.
Speaker 1: So not a huge fan of that one. And kind
Speaker 1: of on a lighter note, I know you're also not
Speaker 1: a huge fan of the current Packer quarterback Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: In fact, i've heard you compare mc Kanye West. I've
Speaker 1: got to note what is your experience like with Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers and what kind of gets your goat about him?
Speaker 1: All right, I don't know. I don't hate Aaron Rodgers like.
Speaker 1: I think he's a great quarterback and guy. So when
Speaker 1: I were I'll tell you when this is not the
Speaker 1: personal reason. But when I was working on a five book,
Speaker 1: I actually I knew he was playing at a golf
Speaker 1: tournament and I met him off the greens at a
Speaker 1: golf tournament and I was like, hey, I introduced my
Speaker 1: He literally goes, because, yeah, I know who you are.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't think you know who
Speaker 1: He's like, I know who you are. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm working on this fire biography. He goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll definitely talk call my agent, reach out to my agent,
Speaker 1: and we'll set up a time. I called his agent repeatedly,
Speaker 1: got blown off repeatedly. Then the book comes out and
Speaker 1: there's a moment in the book when Aaron Rodgers first
Speaker 1: met Brett five. They were in the Packers like cafeteria
Speaker 1: the first time a camp together, and Rogers says to him, hey, grandpa,
Speaker 1: and it really rubbed far of the wrong way. And
Speaker 1: I got that story verified and verified and verified and verified,
Speaker 1: and Rogers denied it, but I know it happened. And
Speaker 1: I just find that kind of stuff annoying. So honestly, God,
Speaker 1: I have no animals store him. I think he's a
Speaker 1: great quarterback. I don't think he's a bad guy. I
Speaker 1: don't see any reason he's a bad guy. That kind
Speaker 1: of stuff annoys that out of me as a as
Speaker 1: a writer, for sure. And think of just in your
Speaker 1: daily life. You grab coffee with someone and you're telling
Speaker 1: him a story that happened a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and someone else says, no, that didn't happen. How frustrating
Speaker 1: in your profession that you have to deal with that
Speaker 1: I had. I'll tell you something I had. I won't
Speaker 1: name names, but people can look it up. Regarding that book,
Speaker 1: the five Book, there was a wide receiver who I
Speaker 1: had in the book saying something and he cursed. He
Speaker 1: cursed in the quote okay this is you can look
Speaker 1: this up because it's google b and I had it
Speaker 1: happened an he curse. This guy goes on Twitter and
Speaker 1: called me a liar and said, anyone who knows me
Speaker 1: knows I never curse. Blah blah blah blah blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I get a he am from another packer.
Speaker 1: I can't even make this up. I get dam from
Speaker 1: another packer who says, hey, call me. A very well
Speaker 1: known packer. I call him and he's like I just
Speaker 1: want you to know, Blank, the guy is totally full
Speaker 1: of crap. Everyone knows full of crap. He's always been
Speaker 1: full of crap. Don't believe him. Don't get bent out
Speaker 1: of shape over this. So these are the journeys you
Speaker 1: take in this wacky world of sports biography. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: and we going to be the recipients of all this
Speaker 1: nonsense and we love it. I'm having weird feelings because
Speaker 1: that sounds like my conversation with my wife where I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: didn't you say I did not say that? Like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, I was sitting right there when you said it. No,
Speaker 1: you don't. You're misremembering. She accuses me of misremembering. Are
Speaker 1: we married to the name? Person? We might be? Might be?
Speaker 1: Might be? Oh, thanks for letting me go further into
Speaker 1: that story. I just I know I wanted to hear
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that. What's the word about season two? Showtime?
Speaker 1: Do we know? Do we have a date? Is it's happened?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you? I don't. Well, I could have played.
Speaker 1: I tried to figure it out. I don't think I
Speaker 1: would have fit. So I'm I'm not mad at you
Speaker 1: for not for me not being on showtime and it
Speaker 1: was cast amazing, So I'm just ready for season two.
Speaker 1: All I just want to say, episode six, season two,
Speaker 1: I play a reporter briefly, and I filmed it two
Speaker 1: weeks ago, is what I want to say to you,
Speaker 1: Jerry in particularly, I was there for eight hours, maybe nine.
Speaker 1: They shot the same scene a hundred times. Right. I
Speaker 1: got home that night, I had a wig glued to
Speaker 1: my head, okay, and sideburns glued to my face. I
Speaker 1: was taking a shower the next morning and my head
Speaker 1: is just like a tomato because I had an allergic
Speaker 1: reaction to the glue they used to would hear it.
Speaker 1: So I actually had to rush to Urgent Care because
Speaker 1: everything was swelling on my waist. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I mean serious, wait, serious question for you. I
Speaker 1: know it isn't my show at your show, but like
Speaker 1: average number of takes per scene in your life would
Speaker 1: be what you did a TV show, So I will
Speaker 1: say TV typically they would You could say they do
Speaker 1: more because it's a different director every episode or most
Speaker 1: like every other episode, and they want to make sure
Speaker 1: they cover everything. With Entourage, for instance, we did a
Speaker 1: lot of like Warner Is like only one shot. But
Speaker 1: we'd have to do that like times, because if you
Speaker 1: have one screw up on the line, you've got to
Speaker 1: start over again. You can't just pick it up. Yeah. There,
Speaker 1: every now and then there's these directors where I will
Speaker 1: lean over to a fell act and be like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this person is just gonna shoot every possible angle and
Speaker 1: just figure it out. They figure it out later in
Speaker 1: the edit, you know. They let me shoot as much
Speaker 1: as I That's like for you would be like, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna get as much information as I can. I'll
Speaker 1: figure out the book later when I get there. That's
Speaker 1: sometimes what happens with TV. Let's just get as much
Speaker 1: coverage as we can and we'll figure out what the
Speaker 1: scene actually looks like later. Not all the time. I
Speaker 1: did a story years ago for a TV guide years
Speaker 1: ago about a TV show called Love Monkey, and it
Speaker 1: was with Tom Kavanaugh, Jason Priestley. Okay, and it's my
Speaker 1: first time on the set and they shoot the same
Speaker 1: scene times. I'm literally why I'm there, And at first
Speaker 1: I'm exciting them, just bored. And at the end I
Speaker 1: was sitting down to interview Jason pretty saying, I said, um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest, man, this seems kind of boring.
Speaker 1: He goes, bro, you have no idea, And I was
Speaker 1: thinking about that over and over again shooting my scene
Speaker 1: for the eightieth time last week. I think a big
Speaker 1: underrated part of acting in general is just how to
Speaker 1: not make it feel like it's Take sixteen and brokering
Speaker 1: out your energy. That's why there's coffee too. Coffee gets
Speaker 1: me through some of those, uh, some of those moments.
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for coming on. I'm super excited.
Speaker 1: Congrats on this book. Whenever I know there's a Perlman
Speaker 1: book coming, I sort of trying to clear my schedule
Speaker 1: as much as I can because I I gotta get
Speaker 1: to it quick before people start spoiling it for me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, my Christmas is kind of set. I think
Speaker 1: I'm gonn actually a babysitter to read this book to
Speaker 1: taste us where the kids aren't screaming while I'm reading.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the last folk here, the life and myth
Speaker 1: of bo Jackson. Couldn't think of a better topic for
Speaker 1: a book. And thanks for coming on, and I hope
Speaker 1: we get the talk against that means you're writing another book.
Speaker 1: We're written another book. Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you
Speaker 1: guys so much. I appreciate it, of course, Yeah, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Okay, it's time for one of my
Speaker 1: favorite parts of this show. Let's get this some Week
Speaker 1: thirteen wagering and more with bet MGM betting analysts, our
Speaker 1: odds on favorite Peter Andrew. Peter, how you doing. Have
Speaker 1: you recovered from the talking to I sort of gave
Speaker 1: you last week? It felt a little bit sweeter after
Speaker 1: the Niners, the Chiefs, the Bills, the Dolphins all took
Speaker 1: care of business. I think the the analogy I have
Speaker 1: for last week is I just needed that little blue single,
Speaker 1: and now this is when the batting average comes back up.
Speaker 1: I was to seventeen. Now I'm back my way toward.
Speaker 1: So it needed to happen. You just need that win
Speaker 1: under your belt and then you can keep going to seventy.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's one player on the Yankees you've
Speaker 1: got at two seventy. You've got to seventy. You're you're
Speaker 1: like an All star. That's a good point I'm talking.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you hit your safe play. It came through.
Speaker 1: You had all the favorites in the world last week. Bills, Dolphins,
Speaker 1: Niners Chiefs to win. You basically were even for the week.
Speaker 1: But now I think, and I said it earlier in
Speaker 1: the show, I think week thirty, this slate is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be hard to pick and hard
Speaker 1: to handicap and pick winners because I do think this
Speaker 1: is a little sneak preview of the playoffs in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, because a lot of playoff teams or
Speaker 1: potential playoff teams facing off. So Mr Blup's single what
Speaker 1: do you got for us this week? Week thirteam, So
Speaker 1: you'll notice I've taken a little bit of a different
Speaker 1: direction here. There's a couple of teased point spreads, but
Speaker 1: I've gone a lot overs and unders, so totals to me,
Speaker 1: I think he's the player this week because is there's
Speaker 1: so many close games. Start first just Thursday night, we'll
Speaker 1: get out of the play the the one game part
Speaker 1: of that that's finally gonna hit. I think this is
Speaker 1: a safe one but still really really good value. So
Speaker 1: we saw Harris go out last week for the Paths,
Speaker 1: so Montre Stevenson is the the premier back. Now He's
Speaker 1: probably gonna playing about of snaps any time touchdown for
Speaker 1: him Isaia McKenzie on the Bills, he has been a
Speaker 1: red zone target even with his size. I think that
Speaker 1: kind of size and speed up the middle. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, had a really good week last week on Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: got him to score any time, and then I've just
Speaker 1: taken Bills minus four and a half, so cover the
Speaker 1: spread those two anytime touchdowns. That's plus a thousand, so
Speaker 1: ten bucks. One unit gives you ten bucks after that
Speaker 1: steak in winnings. So I think it's a nice little
Speaker 1: wet the beat kind of gets you into the football week.
Speaker 1: So to start things off, I like that. I feel
Speaker 1: good about all three. Okay, so that's you got one unit,
Speaker 1: tend to win one ten, so you've got nine left
Speaker 1: to go. So I feel like that was the appetizer.
Speaker 1: That was a little bread and soup. Now let's see
Speaker 1: it we got coming in hardcore. Yeah, so three units
Speaker 1: on each of these other plays. First one, Giants commanders
Speaker 1: under forty one. I think Heineke last three out of
Speaker 1: five weeks under twenty points. Uh so their offense has
Speaker 1: has been struggling. I think Giants have a little bit
Speaker 1: extra rest because of the Thanksgiving Day games, so they're
Speaker 1: essentially on over a week of rest. I think that
Speaker 1: defense will be ready to roll and Giants offense is
Speaker 1: gonna struggle. I think Slaton's probably their only target in
Speaker 1: terms of the pass threat, and we all have seen
Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks what the defensive line
Speaker 1: for the Commanders can do. So I see a low
Speaker 1: scoring game, probably see the Giants win in this one
Speaker 1: home at MetLife, but I can certainly see a twenty
Speaker 1: to thirty seventeen kind of game under forty one. That's
Speaker 1: the play there, Finns Niners. I think this is wildly
Speaker 1: miss priced in terms of the number of forty six
Speaker 1: and a half. I get it, Niners number one defense
Speaker 1: in the league. This to me is a high scoring game.
Speaker 1: I think Fins probably have proved have the best offense,
Speaker 1: if not second or third best offense in the league,
Speaker 1: right around the Chiefs and the Eagles. I can see
Speaker 1: them putting up thirty points this game. I think it's
Speaker 1: gonna be relatively close. I can see a field goal
Speaker 1: game here, but this is not going to be a
Speaker 1: thirteen nothing Saints Niners game like last week to re
Speaker 1: kill Wattle, no joke. Most they're already talking a little
Speaker 1: bit trash about his old team going back to the Bay.
Speaker 1: I can see this one being super high scoring. It
Speaker 1: kind of reminded me of SATs Niners a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, where it was like forty seven, forty five,
Speaker 1: something crazy like that. So I see some points here
Speaker 1: and then last three units. Pains me to do this,
Speaker 1: But Dolphins plus ten, I think they keep it. Like
Speaker 1: I said, close ten points for arguably the second best
Speaker 1: or third best team in the a f C going
Speaker 1: to San Francisco. I think that's a real fair number
Speaker 1: to hit. Brown's minus one, returning to Shaun Watson. Oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, against the Texans former team, who are horrendous,
Speaker 1: they're an easy one. That's a layup. That's a layup.
Speaker 1: So pushing that down from seven to one is seems
Speaker 1: very very logical. And Brown's team probably not in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but they're fighting towards it. So it's a must win
Speaker 1: for them, especially against probably the worst team in the NFL.
Speaker 1: And then Chiefs at the Bengals over forty five and
Speaker 1: a half, So tease that down. That to me is
Speaker 1: another high scoring game. You got the Bengals who have
Speaker 1: who have clearly righted. The ship Chiefs are playing as
Speaker 1: good as anybody this year. Kelsey's on fire, Mahomes is
Speaker 1: on fire. So to say that there's not gonna be
Speaker 1: forty five points the game is I think kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: So taking the over there the others obviously minus one ten,
Speaker 1: that one's plus one forty, so that's seventy two. I
Speaker 1: really like the card this week, And like I said,
Speaker 1: I've stayed away from some of these points spreads because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of really really close games. So feel
Speaker 1: good with with the extra six points on the couple
Speaker 1: of those. But but all in know, I think totals
Speaker 1: of the move this week, Jerry, is there anything there
Speaker 1: that is a red flag concern for you? I won't
Speaker 1: say red flag. I like what you did with the
Speaker 1: Dolphins Niners and like kind of focusing on that game.
Speaker 1: I do think there's some points and if you're right
Speaker 1: on the over, then you're probably right that that game
Speaker 1: will be less than ten. And even though you're a
Speaker 1: Niners fan, I mean, all right, so if the Niners
Speaker 1: went by seven, I'm sure you won't be crying. You'll
Speaker 1: still be very happy. If I had to flag something,
Speaker 1: I'm not even flagging it. I'm just that Brown's minus
Speaker 1: one at Houston. I know, like, I don't think on
Speaker 1: the Texans. Again, not hot on the Texans, but we're
Speaker 1: talking about a quarterback who hasn't played football in two years.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm hot on the Texans. And by
Speaker 1: the way, if the if Houston beats the Browns, that
Speaker 1: only makes the Browns draft pick more valuable, which Houston owns.
Speaker 1: Not saying I like the Texans at all because they
Speaker 1: are the worst team in football and I think they've
Speaker 1: completely given up there now shuffling around quarter I'm just
Speaker 1: that one's got my attention a little bit because I
Speaker 1: actually do think it's gonna be a close game. But
Speaker 1: I do think the Browns prevailed. Other than that, I'm
Speaker 1: with that, And I like that you picked the Giants
Speaker 1: commanders under don't pick the Giants anymore, Pete. Here's why.
Speaker 1: I just don't want anyone just keep us underdog. I
Speaker 1: don't want to you want like the Giants win when
Speaker 1: everyone thinks we're gonna lose. I don't like when people
Speaker 1: get people got on the train and we've lost two
Speaker 1: in a row. I don't I don't even like that
Speaker 1: I would get off the train, just let them, let
Speaker 1: them win in peace fair enough. At some point they
Speaker 1: have to be taken seriously though. I get your under
Speaker 1: the radar comment, but like, they're not the best team,
Speaker 1: but they're a decent team. There there's the most injured
Speaker 1: te sure, so I get it. What about if I
Speaker 1: can shift to the other New York team. What's your
Speaker 1: take on Mike White going into Minnesota. This is a
Speaker 1: game that I kind of I didn't put it in here,
Speaker 1: but I might take Jets money line. I think they're
Speaker 1: probably a five or six point dog, but I think
Speaker 1: I might take them money. So you want to hear
Speaker 1: what a maniac emotional better I could be. I was
Speaker 1: perusing bet MGM when I'm making my picks, and then
Speaker 1: also someone sent me the trailer for like the next
Speaker 1: episode of that show White Lotus, which I'm a fan of,
Speaker 1: and that show creator his name is Mike White. So
Speaker 1: to me, that was a clear cut sign that Mike
Speaker 1: White and the Jets are gonna Look. I have a
Speaker 1: lot of Jets fans of my life. I love to
Speaker 1: make fun of them. It's really hard to make fun
Speaker 1: of them because they are really really good and look
Speaker 1: I think Mike White played a little bit last year.
Speaker 1: He had and then he played a little bit and
Speaker 1: got destroyed. So curious to see what happens. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a great story and it's a bit hard
Speaker 1: lesson for Zack Wilson. The one thing I would say
Speaker 1: about Mike White is this shows to me. I don't
Speaker 1: want to bash Zack Wilson, but look how bad Garrett
Speaker 1: Wilson has been in the weeks that Zack Wilson started
Speaker 1: the first couple of weeks, when Flacco was playing two touchdowns,
Speaker 1: ten plus receptions, hundred plus yards, Garrett Wilson, who's arguably
Speaker 1: one of the better wide receivers coming out of the
Speaker 1: draft last year, five games of nothing, it felt like
Speaker 1: then Mike White comes in, ninety yards, two touchdowns, ton
Speaker 1: of targets. They're using him any which way, like it's
Speaker 1: exploiting your talent with different guys. That shows to me
Speaker 1: that Zack Wilson is way too just kind of single
Speaker 1: minded in terms of what he's trying to do. And
Speaker 1: what I really like about Robert Salo, which you know
Speaker 1: he was getting a lot of heat and remember the
Speaker 1: whole I'm keeping the receipts and everyone kind of laughed, like,
Speaker 1: all right, keep him, do whatever you want when him,
Speaker 1: we don't care. I think the Zach Wilson benching, yes,
Speaker 1: his play maybe warranted the benching, but I think that
Speaker 1: press conference was like the final thing. And I think
Speaker 1: when you see your coach hold the star young quarterback accountable, like, hey,
Speaker 1: you can't go up after a bad game and basically
Speaker 1: said you weren't responsible for that I did. Coaching wise,
Speaker 1: I think he fully has that team behind him. It
Speaker 1: pains me to say that we just did basically a
Speaker 1: two and a half minute segment on the Jets for
Speaker 1: no reason at all other than the fact that they're
Speaker 1: good and they're a great story. Hurts my soul. Last thing,
Speaker 1: did Zach Wilson play his last game? Barring an injury
Speaker 1: to someone else? Did he play his last game as
Speaker 1: a Jet starting quarterback? I don't believe so unless we
Speaker 1: get a really truly magical look. Mike White's a great story.
Speaker 1: I think he's very talented. He makes the easy throw.
Speaker 1: It was against the Bears, let's not forget, and they're
Speaker 1: not really even fielding a team at this point, so
Speaker 1: you can make a believer out of me beating the
Speaker 1: Buffaloes and the New England's and you know, some tougher competition.
Speaker 1: So no, and he's what twenty two do you give
Speaker 1: up on that? Twenty three or twenty three? Like, I
Speaker 1: don't think you could fully say it's it's over. I
Speaker 1: gotta get like he's allowed to make a mistake and
Speaker 1: grow from it. So my answer would be no. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like he'll be like a Sam Donald Like
Speaker 1: I feel like he's going to kind of disappear on
Speaker 1: us here because I think his character has shown he's
Speaker 1: lost the locker room. Teammates clearly don't want to play
Speaker 1: for him. They want to play for Mike White, like
Speaker 1: you mentioned that Garrett Wilson example. But I think that
Speaker 1: Robert Sala doing this was the right decision as an
Speaker 1: organization that's ready to win now. But it certainly didn't
Speaker 1: do Zach any favors because this is kind of to
Speaker 1: do that to a young quarterback's confidence is kind of
Speaker 1: a final stab. We have to stop talking about the Jets.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a heart attack on the air. Literally
Speaker 1: gonna have a heart attack on the air. Alright, Pete,
Speaker 1: let me just say I do like what you got
Speaker 1: on the menu this week and uh, if this happens,
Speaker 1: you might have to graduate from blooperpete to uh bloop
Speaker 1: single to you. Maybe it's a double, maybe it's a triple.
Speaker 1: Maybe you touch them all. So thank you as always,
Speaker 1: Peter Andrew, good luck this week. Thanks guys, h thank
Speaker 1: you Peter, and thanks everyone for listening. Make sure you
Speaker 1: follow but MGM across all social media platforms and subscribe
Speaker 1: to the show so you never miss an episode, because
Speaker 1: next week is a really good one. Jerry too. We
Speaker 1: have Michael Lombardi joining us. I know you've been campaigning
Speaker 1: for him. He's been fantastic on the show before. That'll
Speaker 1: be fun.