Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. But the global
Speaker 1: fragrance and perfumes market tim forecast to reach about forty
Speaker 1: three point six billion is according at least to one forecast.
Speaker 1: There's a lot out there and that's growing at a
Speaker 1: compound annual growth rate of about three point four percent
Speaker 1: from today until then. I mean, it's a massive industry
Speaker 1: and continues to grow. Massive industry, a growing one. We
Speaker 1: are grateful to have with us. Linda Levy, President of
Speaker 1: the Fragrance Foundation. She's also known as the Fragrance Fragrance Queen.
Speaker 1: She's with us Interactive Broger Studio. How did you get
Speaker 1: that title? Well, it takes a lot of hard work
Speaker 1: and a lot of sniffing. But I'm really happy to
Speaker 1: be here. Carol and Tim, thank you for having me today. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny when you were coming on, because
Speaker 1: I find the fragrance industry fascinating. The are people who
Speaker 1: are noses like professional? Are you a professional like? Are
Speaker 1: you one of those individuals? Now? The nose term is
Speaker 1: often is most often used for a perfume or someone
Speaker 1: who's come through real training. I'm sort of an amateur
Speaker 1: knows though. I would take that well, you know, and
Speaker 1: you represent that a lot of professionals I was looking at.
Speaker 1: There's tons of people. I mean everyone from Cardier, Tionelle,
Speaker 1: Cody Harlem, Candle Company. We've had them on air. Um,
Speaker 1: she's really cool in terms of what she's doing, l
Speaker 1: v M, H new Sacks, Alt Beauty. So many these
Speaker 1: are your members. Tell us a little bit about the
Speaker 1: group and what they are focused on. Sure, the Fragrance
Speaker 1: Foundation is actually a not for profit organization and we
Speaker 1: have over one hundred members, including all that you mentioned
Speaker 1: and more. We have the biggest Fragrance hounds, as we
Speaker 1: have the retailers, we have the brands, and we even
Speaker 1: have you know, people who contribute on a very small level.
Speaker 1: I would say that what we do is try to
Speaker 1: make sure that we are the go to place for
Speaker 1: expertise education, We nurture talent and together. Even though many
Speaker 1: our competitors, there's no competition when it comes to Fragrance,
Speaker 1: so we all really share and our biggest priority today
Speaker 1: is galvanizing the dustry at the Fragrance Foundation with hashtag
Speaker 1: Fragrance Forward, t ff. We're just getting all of these
Speaker 1: fabulous entities to work together to open up the fragrance
Speaker 1: industry for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's a big, big
Speaker 1: deal for us. Well where are you starting from? Because
Speaker 1: even though and I know this from the notes that
Speaker 1: our producer gave us, but it's it's not an industry
Speaker 1: that has a lot of diversity, despite the fact that
Speaker 1: a diverse population actually buyas fragrances. This is true, and
Speaker 1: that is exactly what we want to change. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not just about recruiting, it's about celebrating. So we
Speaker 1: started an initiative actually in no October November this year,
Speaker 1: and we have united everyone. You know in a lot
Speaker 1: of these big companies you're mentioning, there's hr, there's legal,
Speaker 1: but there is such a spirit to make sure that
Speaker 1: we make sure that those who work in the industry
Speaker 1: show the diversity of the United States population. And I'm
Speaker 1: positive we're going to do that. Why hasn't been diverse?
Speaker 1: I always think it's going to be like a creative
Speaker 1: air like fragrance would be a little bit more diverse.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just silly and stupid, but I just why
Speaker 1: hasn't it been more diverse. You're not silly or stupid.
Speaker 1: I think many of us questioned it ourselves. The heritage
Speaker 1: of the industry had a lot to do with gross
Speaker 1: in France and a lot of perfumers, and that was
Speaker 1: always the face. But as you just mentioned, there are
Speaker 1: many diverse people involved with all. What I have really
Speaker 1: learned is we have to get out there. So we
Speaker 1: are going to go into schools and show students that
Speaker 1: there is actually a course. You know, almost everything you're
Speaker 1: studying could be applied to being in the fragrance industry.
Speaker 1: We also have to show them people who look like them.
Speaker 1: We understand. You mentioned Terry Johnson from the Harlem Candle
Speaker 1: Company or my good friend Chris Collins from the World
Speaker 1: of Collins. There are so many people that have established
Speaker 1: brands and worked very hard to get there. So Number
Speaker 1: one is getting out to tell people we want them,
Speaker 1: we welcome them, we embrace them, we celebrate them, and
Speaker 1: we just don't want a list of we're selling these
Speaker 1: brands in the store. We want to celebrate them and
Speaker 1: make sure that the entire population knows where we're going.
Speaker 1: It's one thing for the independent companies to have these
Speaker 1: diverse founders and you know, diverse leaders. But what about
Speaker 1: the larger, more established companies like an st lawder or
Speaker 1: something that's got is known for its fragrances. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you asked that. We now a miss Monson who
Speaker 1: is the head of diversity, Equity and Inclusion that is
Speaker 1: at spearheading the Estate Lauder companies. We also just had
Speaker 1: a panel l v M H Huge corporation has Corey Smith,
Speaker 1: who is the diversity equity and inclusion maestro. And what
Speaker 1: we have gotten is these people to tell us what
Speaker 1: they're doing at how they're doing it, and there really
Speaker 1: are people in these companies that are dedicated to joining
Speaker 1: us what it's Listen, it's just important for on so
Speaker 1: many different levels. But you know, we talked about it
Speaker 1: even from a business perspective, like think about the markets
Speaker 1: that you're leaving at by not having a more diverse,
Speaker 1: you know, point of view within your company base. I
Speaker 1: can actually speak from my retailer experience. It's just prior
Speaker 1: to this job which i'm in four years, I worked
Speaker 1: at Macy's and actually ran the fragrance business. Our biggest
Speaker 1: we over indexed in the Hispanic population. That was who
Speaker 1: was buying our fragrances more than ever. And what we
Speaker 1: did is we looked to see how we could really
Speaker 1: translate our stories and make sure that they felt welcome
Speaker 1: and that we had people in the stores talking about
Speaker 1: fragrance who looked like them. What might surprise people about
Speaker 1: what was going on when it comes to fragrances and
Speaker 1: maybe purchases of fragrances during the pandemic. During the pandemic,
Speaker 1: we were very surprised that fragrance actually became even bigger
Speaker 1: and hit a wider audience. I would say there are
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. One is no one was getting dressed.
Speaker 1: It's true they weren't wearing enough lipstick or using skincare,
Speaker 1: but they really some of us put clothes on and
Speaker 1: they just weren't spiffy clothes. But we often call it
Speaker 1: the personal invisible accessory. So when you were going to
Speaker 1: work and sitting on your zoom, it really felt good
Speaker 1: to feel like you had an identity and personal fragrance
Speaker 1: as were big. But the other thing is all about
Speaker 1: the home environment. Candles, candles, candles, home diffusers, spas in
Speaker 1: the bathroom there are more candles. Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: do candles I like lower the Why I do the
Speaker 1: whole thing, I must tell you, And it's a famous
Speaker 1: story for me, But I am really and I hate
Speaker 1: to admit. Never used to candle at home till the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Now every night where Steve and I used to go
Speaker 1: out to dinner, we now have a great bottle of
Speaker 1: wine and I match it with a candle, and it
Speaker 1: really creates a mood. It is transportive and it sets
Speaker 1: you up for a great night. And there are twenty
Speaker 1: five different brands that are out there that are soaring,
Speaker 1: So candles were really big. Also, weren't you using hand sanitizers?
Speaker 1: Weren't you using hand lotion? Didn't you want to put
Speaker 1: some moisturizer on that really made you smell good? And
Speaker 1: transport sanitizers, Tim, I've got one for you. If you
Speaker 1: were to smell a fragrance that reminded you of your
Speaker 1: grandmother or your father or whoever, you actually embrace that
Speaker 1: fragrance more during the pandemic to transport you. Or where
Speaker 1: did you go on vacation, Tim, during the pandemic? Nowhere?
Speaker 1: And before that, oh before that, we went all over
Speaker 1: you know, out west, but out west, it was probably
Speaker 1: a fragrancy war and if you just put it on
Speaker 1: it would transport you there. All right, we're gonna come
Speaker 1: back with Linda Levy, she's president of the Fragrance Foundation.
Speaker 1: We're going to continue this conversation right here on Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. I'm Carol Masser along with Tim Stanovic. You
Speaker 1: are listening to Bloomberg Radio. Alright. First of all, I
Speaker 1: just have to stay behind the scenes and someday I'm
Speaker 1: going to bring this out on air. Tim, just talking
Speaker 1: about fragrances and candles and a sense. Okay, everybody has
Speaker 1: like personal associations with different things that smell good. It's powerful,
Speaker 1: literally is with that. She's president of the Fragrance Foundation
Speaker 1: here in her Interactive Broker studio. You know, you pointed
Speaker 1: out something though that maybe a lot of us haven't
Speaker 1: thought about. But no, during COVID and people losing their
Speaker 1: sense of smell, it's a big deal. It's a very
Speaker 1: big deal. Prior to the pan them make the sense
Speaker 1: of smell was probably the bottom of the list if
Speaker 1: people said which of the senses do you most value? Vision, hearing, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But when people lost their sense of smell during COVID,
Speaker 1: it was monumental, and it was really a terrible thing.
Speaker 1: And they also lost their sense of taste with smell.
Speaker 1: So the Fragrance Foundation works very closely with the Monell
Speaker 1: Institute in Philadelphia, And to make a long story short,
Speaker 1: for those people, we taught them if they even went
Speaker 1: into their spice cabinet and smelled three different things on
Speaker 1: a regular basis a few hours apart every day, we
Speaker 1: helped them get their sense of smell back to some degree.
Speaker 1: There's also a new thing. Has your doctor given you
Speaker 1: a test for your sense of smell? This kind of
Speaker 1: thing is going to be rampant across the United States
Speaker 1: because the sense of smell gives pleasure to are low,
Speaker 1: for instance, but it also enhances your evening or your bathtub.
Speaker 1: But the most important thing is the sense of smell
Speaker 1: is really probably at the top of the list right now.
Speaker 1: It's powerful. Yes, Um, So where is the industry going?
Speaker 1: Because I do think there's this great evolution. I've worn
Speaker 1: men's clogs like I just love this kind of I've
Speaker 1: mixed oils like I I love kind of doing a
Speaker 1: layering impact. But tell me about what's going on, because
Speaker 1: you do feel like we talked about innovation, disruption, a
Speaker 1: lot of different industries. What are you seeing? There are
Speaker 1: a lot of exciting things going on. First of all,
Speaker 1: in the olden days I call it, there were ladiess
Speaker 1: fragrances and men's fragrances what we now call fragrances for
Speaker 1: all our universal If you think about Joe Malone that
Speaker 1: you like or Tom Ford that you like, they have
Speaker 1: had a brand from the beginning that is not specific
Speaker 1: to men or women, and that is becoming a bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger trend. If you think of going in a store,
Speaker 1: you go to the ladies department of the men's department.
Speaker 1: That's not what the United States of America is about.
Speaker 1: Everyone doesn't want to associate that way. It's not about
Speaker 1: pink and blue. So universal fragrances. And if we didn't
Speaker 1: tell you what it is, you would be wearing that
Speaker 1: men's cologne. For instance. Another thing is ambiance, and I'll
Speaker 1: lot of hotels, a lot of homes, a lot of
Speaker 1: places have a scent that will associate your the West
Speaker 1: End exactly. Oh my god, that what is it that
Speaker 1: it's everyone has? The Nike store has something that smells
Speaker 1: like the basketball. I mean, if you flashback to why
Speaker 1: you remember every time you walk in that store and
Speaker 1: you feel really good. It brings you a sense of
Speaker 1: you know where you are today. There are so many
Speaker 1: different ways of delivering um scent as well. This could
Speaker 1: be a show unto itself, but right now I t
Speaker 1: that's what it is. In Western I had to up
Speaker 1: and they and they sell stuff like so that you
Speaker 1: can have it at home or you go on vacation
Speaker 1: and in the bathroom they have bulgari advert every time
Speaker 1: you smell that bulgari, you think you're on vacation again.
Speaker 1: So I think the transportive is a really big deal.
Speaker 1: But about a move toward natural rather than synthetic smells
Speaker 1: and the idea that people want to be breathing in
Speaker 1: stuff that isn't necessary really harmful. I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker 1: Don't forget what I'm about to say. Natural is not
Speaker 1: better than synthetic. I'll give you a few reasons why.
Speaker 1: First of all, what's poison ivy Think of how many
Speaker 1: natural plants and items are out there that actually have
Speaker 1: allergic reactions, and it goes back all the way to
Speaker 1: Chanel number five. Some of that is a molecule. It
Speaker 1: was a synthetic that was created. The other thing is,
Speaker 1: you know, the world is changing and on planet Earth
Speaker 1: sometimes something that was available whenever is not available now.
Speaker 1: So the fragrance houses are able to create headspace, as
Speaker 1: they call it, and they can replicate a scent like
Speaker 1: you think a road smell so good, But if you
Speaker 1: really squish that rose down, I'm being quite vulgar. In
Speaker 1: the fragrance industry, it might not smell exactly like you like.
Speaker 1: So the synthetic fragrances continue. And the last part is
Speaker 1: things change in terms of regulations. What might have been
Speaker 1: okay to be in a formulation years ago is not today,
Speaker 1: so we have to find solutions. So I need you
Speaker 1: to know though many people think natural is the better
Speaker 1: or it is not always, but I do think about
Speaker 1: skincare and makeup like I'm a big mover into cleaner
Speaker 1: makeup and stuff. I do think about It's interesting in
Speaker 1: a time where people are afraid to take a vaccine,
Speaker 1: yet we'll throw products on ourselves that we really don't
Speaker 1: know what's in it. What? How is that though impacting
Speaker 1: your industry, it does have an impact. There are certain
Speaker 1: consumers who absolutely want natural and absolutely want clean Sophora
Speaker 1: is one of our big members. They actually have a
Speaker 1: department you've seen where it's clean. Now, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: they're worse. I'm just saying it's a matter of taste
Speaker 1: and what are your priorities, because a lot of the
Speaker 1: fragrances that are out there with synthetics are not in
Speaker 1: any way inferior to those that are natural. And I
Speaker 1: do wonder about shelf life life. I bought some oils
Speaker 1: that are very kind of organic and stuff, but they
Speaker 1: don't necessarily always laugh and I'm torn because then the
Speaker 1: smell or whatever it is, it turns out I gotta
Speaker 1: I gotta move quickly. Well, there is a shelf life,
Speaker 1: but naturals do actually, like you say, they don't last
Speaker 1: as long generally speaking. Did you ask I want to
Speaker 1: ask Linda about just fragrances versus how we think about
Speaker 1: sense uh, you know, And when Carol mentioned this the
Speaker 1: growth of the industry when we were talking earlier, and
Speaker 1: the massive growth that it's expected, how much of that
Speaker 1: has to do with cologne perfume versus sense that are
Speaker 1: added to hand sanitizer. What does the segmentation of the
Speaker 1: market look like. Well, you're the ones with the stats.
Speaker 1: And I usually talk about MPG giving you the data,
Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. All of the companies
Speaker 1: that make prestige fragrances which we've been talking about, also
Speaker 1: make flavors and also make a sent that goes with
Speaker 1: anything like tropic cana tastes exactly the same because of
Speaker 1: the flavors part of these places. When it comes to sense,
Speaker 1: I would say that at this point it really is
Speaker 1: going to be the future. I think I lost my
Speaker 1: train of thought. What was your question? It's just about segmentation.
Speaker 1: But the segmentation, but lysul Or, we were talking about
Speaker 1: the garbage can um bags that are in there. They
Speaker 1: smell like lavender. Just about everything right now, you have
Speaker 1: an option for a cent if you wish it. And
Speaker 1: everyone who tells me they don't wear fragrance, they do.
Speaker 1: You took a shower, you use soap, you put on
Speaker 1: a lotion, you put on an oil, you shaved today,
Speaker 1: so much fun come back. This is really we really
Speaker 1: preach a happy holidays, Happy holidays, and get out there
Speaker 1: and buy some fragrances. We will do that, all right.
Speaker 1: She gave us our marching orders. Linda Levy, she's president
Speaker 1: of the Fragrance Foundation in our studio