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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is on an adventure but will be

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Speaker 2: returning shortly.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joyed as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: argue you are here. That makes this the stuff they

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Speaker 3: don't want you to know. Now, while we are recording

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Speaker 3: at the end of December, we do want to give

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Speaker 3: everybody a happy New Year's shout out because this episode

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Speaker 3: is going to be publishing in twenty twenty six, which

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Speaker 3: turns out to be real year.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, twenty twenty six. You thought twenty twenty five

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Speaker 2: was weird, Well strap in. We're actually recording this on

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth, the day that three I Atlas is the

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Speaker 2: closest to Earth that is gonna get on its journey

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Speaker 2: through our solar system, and coincidentally, the day of the

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Speaker 2: Epstein Files release.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the day a version of the Epstein Files releases. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: We're we're looking back on some stuff. Longtime listeners. You

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Speaker 3: may recall it. In a previous episode, we delved into

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Speaker 3: the story of something called the Atlas Network, non astronomical

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Speaker 3: to terrestrial, obscure global entity. It's like a metathink tank

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Speaker 3: that births other think tanks and while there, while their

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Speaker 3: activities may be earthbound, their success itself is astronomical. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot to get into. Please do check out our

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Speaker 3: previous episode on this. We're talking allegations of corruption, conspiracy,

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Speaker 3: possible hidden partnerships with government intelligence, and they definitely want

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Speaker 3: you to smoke tobacco.

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Speaker 2: Oh so much tobacco. No matter where you are on

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Speaker 2: the planet, it's global tobacco.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So give that episode a gander with your ears,

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Speaker 3: because we'll refer back to it pretty often here. So,

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Speaker 3: as we recall, in the course of our previous investigation

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Speaker 3: into the Atlas Network, we realize there's a related thing

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Speaker 3: we have to explore. We had to make an episode

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Speaker 3: entire about it. Fillip. Conspiracy realists, you have probably heard

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Speaker 3: the name pop up now and again, but unless you're

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Speaker 3: really looking for it, this thing is surprisingly easy to miss.

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Speaker 3: It is called the National Endowment for Democracy or NED.

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Speaker 2: Yay, Ned, Hey, Ned, it's one of those things that

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Speaker 2: sounds so great. National Endowment for Democracy. Oh, as you heard,

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Speaker 2: National Home for Democracy is coming to Friday Nights Party.

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Speaker 3: How can you have a problem with it? You fundamentally

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Speaker 3: must hate democracy. Yeah, or endowments or nations, those are

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Speaker 3: three great words.

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Speaker 2: They're super great words for a quasi autonomous non governmental organization.

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Speaker 3: Right, So we're going to get into it now. So

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Speaker 3: why have some people started calling this a new CIA.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back. Here are the facts. You know,

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Speaker 3: what do we start with the CIA? Okay, if you're

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Speaker 3: a longtime listener, you already know a lot about the

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Speaker 3: controversies in Shenanigan surrounding Uncle Sam's Central Intelligence Agency and

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Speaker 3: it's Spoopy Doup predecessor the OSS. Yeah, it reminds me

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Speaker 3: of our our earlier episode we did. I was on

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Speaker 3: the road at the time, but this was a real banger.

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Speaker 3: Let's learn simple sabotage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh yeah. Well, and if you recall some

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Speaker 2: of our conversations about even the Revolutionary War in the

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Speaker 2: United States as or before the United States as it's happening,

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Speaker 2: there's a real understanding that intelligence ends up being the

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Speaker 2: thing that wins wars, or at least wins battles, right,

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Speaker 2: and then those battles end up giving you the war.

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Speaker 2: And that followed through in the history of the United States,

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Speaker 2: all the way through World War One into World War

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Speaker 2: Two until we get this brand new thing, this new

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Speaker 2: concoction called the Central Intelligence Agency that really takes all

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Speaker 2: of these intelligence gathering activities and puts it under one roof.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is formed in nineteen forty seven. It's the

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Speaker 3: wake of World War Two, and the world, the world

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Speaker 3: comes through this realization that essentially it's a global hangover

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Speaker 3: because of all the atrocities and all the destruction that

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Speaker 3: were like havoc rained for a while, and the CIA

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Speaker 3: is a result of the National Security Act, because as

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Speaker 3: as you were saying there, Matt, up to that point,

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Speaker 3: from pre seventeen seventy six all the way to nineteen

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Speaker 3: forty seven, the US and intel game was pretty ad hoc.

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Speaker 3: You'd have people cowboy and in the military or the FBI.

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Speaker 3: They were all sort of playing jazz, kind of improvising,

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Speaker 3: doing their own thing. And they would often and we

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Speaker 3: don't talk about this too much, I guess in the textbooks,

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Speaker 3: but they would often not only be doing double the

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Speaker 3: amount of work they needed to do, they would often

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Speaker 3: be at loggerheads and accidentally fighting each other before they

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Speaker 3: figured out they were on the same team. So the CIA, yeah,

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Speaker 3: CIA is meant to change all of this, centralize intelligence.

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Speaker 3: They're going to advise the NSC, the National Security Council.

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Speaker 3: They're also going to coordinate and carry out intelligence activities.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, and those and intelligence activities varied so widely, right,

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Speaker 2: because we are talking about post World War two. There's

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Speaker 2: a reason why the US needed a central intelligence agency

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Speaker 2: because there was this growing now threat to hedge money.

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Speaker 2: That was the USSR. Right, who is going to be

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Speaker 2: the world's power? Is it us? Or is it them?

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Speaker 2: And at the center of the thing that separated the

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Speaker 2: US and the USSR was this beautiful, this beautiful idea

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Speaker 2: called democracy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, ideology, right, it's the ideology is always going to

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Speaker 3: be the sheep's wool over the wolf of resource extraction

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Speaker 3: and control. So even with the best of intentions, the

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Speaker 3: spy game becomes murky, very very quickly. And that rationalization

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Speaker 3: of the greater good it's one hell of a drug.

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Speaker 3: So it's no surprise in the decades since nineteen forty seven.

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Speaker 3: Our friends at the agency have repeatedly been accused of

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Speaker 3: bending or breaking laws, overthrowing governments, assassinating world leaders, experimenting

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Speaker 3: on civilians, and so very much more.

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Speaker 2: Oh and man, a lot of that. A lot of

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Speaker 2: that often occurs through siphoning funds or supporting a group,

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Speaker 2: right with money. That's a lot of the times how

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Speaker 2: that actually happens. You don't have too many people on

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Speaker 2: the ground. Let's say, training a separatist group that is

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Speaker 2: going to go against the standing military slash control of

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Speaker 2: a country. You're going to fund maybe train a few

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Speaker 2: guys to go in there, and then have them train everybody.

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Speaker 3: Else, right, and make sure that they have a good story, right,

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Speaker 3: a good persona you know, I'm just a student. Me

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Speaker 3: and these two other students. We just like hiking. Okay,

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Speaker 3: we didn't know we walked into Iran. You guys are

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Speaker 3: being dined. So but that's a true story, by the way,

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Speaker 3: that happened a few years back.

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Speaker 2: Oh jeez.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But there's this perception I think that spying is because

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Speaker 2: of what tele and movies have done to spies. Right,

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Speaker 2: we see very specific things in our minds when we

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Speaker 2: think about spycraft still to this day, mission impossible, all

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Speaker 2: these all of these things that are coming out now,

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Speaker 2: that's what we see. But really, the spy game can

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Speaker 2: just move with funding.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I mean every dollar can

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Speaker 3: be a bullet essentially. And so like so many other

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Speaker 3: intelligence outfits, the CIA, to your point, Matt is known

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Speaker 3: to use all sorts of proxies in front companies. This

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Speaker 3: is a necessary evil depending on the circumstances. It reminds

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Speaker 3: me of a recent episode we did where we looked

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Speaker 3: at the agency's secret network of com sites that were

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Speaker 3: designed or designed and disguised as fan pages for football

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Speaker 3: or Star Wars and so on. That's a great ride.

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Speaker 3: Check out that show because my favorite aspect of it

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Speaker 3: is not that it worked for time, which it did,

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Speaker 3: but that it worked for a time because they intentionally

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Speaker 3: made the websites look so amateurish and bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like they did.

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Speaker 3: They were not slick at all, uh, but they were believable.

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Speaker 2: They were believable as like just some fan made a

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Speaker 2: Star Wars website.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, some fan made a Star Wars website and

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Speaker 3: they were so motivated that they clearly taught themselves HTML.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and then stopped at a certain point.

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Speaker 2: Ben, do you remember the episode we did on Oh

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Speaker 2: God was it called in q Tel. It's the outfit

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Speaker 2: that was a funding arm of the CIA at least

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Speaker 2: at some point, and we talked about them with the

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Speaker 2: Oh it was some of the initial funding for Facebook,

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Speaker 2: the Facebook a long time ago, and then how that

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Speaker 2: company ends up just having a bunch of other companies

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Speaker 2: that are underneath its umbrella that can invest in things

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Speaker 2: and basically push forward some agenda that we don't know about.

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Speaker 2: That's the CIA's business, not ours, but we can see

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Speaker 2: the wake of that funding and kind of theoretically gather

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Speaker 2: what the desire is or what the end goal is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a similar tactic to the at Liss network.

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Speaker 3: And I think the episode we're referring to there is

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Speaker 3: the CIA has a bank. Yes, no, Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 3: one and they very much do or did, and we

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Speaker 3: know that. Look, we know this history. These are proving conspiracies,

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Speaker 3: not conspiracy theories. We want to bracket this for a

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Speaker 3: second because we need that brief recap of the CIA

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Speaker 3: to understand what we're talking about here. Let's shift gears

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Speaker 3: to the National Endowment for Democracy. Technically, like you were saying, Matt,

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Speaker 3: it's it exists in a weird liminal bureaucratic space. It

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Speaker 3: is government organized, but it is technically a non governmental group.

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Speaker 3: It's a five o' one C three. It's an in goo.

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Speaker 3: It's founded by a guy named Carl Gershman and a

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Speaker 3: guy named Alan Weinstein on November eighteenth, nineteen eighty three,

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Speaker 3: just two years after the creation of the Atlas Network.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, see, nineteen eighty three is a great year.

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Speaker 3: That's all. I know why you're shouting. But man, So

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Speaker 3: its origin is tied to something called Project Democracy, but

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Speaker 3: it's also tied to a lot of other stuff. NED

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Speaker 3: has four core institutes under its own umbrella. Without getting

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Speaker 3: too far in the weeds, they're the National Democratic Institute

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Speaker 3: in the National Republican Institute, right, so both sides, the

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Speaker 3: American Center for International Labor Solidarity. It's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds a little leftist to me, but okay.

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Speaker 3: All right, sounds a little right to be. So that's

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Speaker 3: we did a flawless impression of a lot of the

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Speaker 3: criticism you're going to hear. And then their fourth one

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Speaker 3: is the Center for International Private Enterprise, also a little

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Speaker 3: bit spooky doupe these. Each of these four the sub

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Speaker 3: powers or sousarains focus on specific genres of the international influence.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, international labor solidarity. They can be your union's

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Speaker 3: best friend.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so we're still in the sphere of the

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Speaker 2: National Endowment. Outside all the CIA stuff we talked about.

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Speaker 2: This seems on the up and up, I guess, but

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Speaker 2: it is a little weird. Anytime you talk about promoting

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Speaker 2: democracy in a place that, let's say, is currently run

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Speaker 2: by an autocrat, or in a place that is currently

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Speaker 2: you know, a communist republic of some sort, promoting democracy

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Speaker 2: in those places, it's it's a bit. It can be

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Speaker 2: viewed as an aggressive action.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, a seditionist action, right, or secessionist action. It

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Speaker 3: can also it could be viewed as a hostile act, yes, right,

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Speaker 3: depending on we'll talk about some of the careful, weird

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Speaker 3: gray lines people have around this stuff. Yeah, in paper,

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Speaker 3: ned does not sound too out of the ordinary. There

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Speaker 3: are a lot of other places or institutions that attempt

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Speaker 3: to do similar things, including arms of the United Nations,

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Speaker 3: which attempt to champion and advocate for things like human rights,

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Speaker 3: things like economic equality, although that's a sticky one for

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Speaker 3: them and democracy.

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Speaker 2: Even just to promote private enterprise, right to get money

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Speaker 2: invested in an area in another country, to get it moving,

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Speaker 2: to get businesses started, that kind of thing. That's a

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Speaker 2: common goal. It's just it can get a little murky

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Speaker 2: if the money funneling in going to organizations have very

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Speaker 2: they have very specific goals in mind.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, one hundred percent. And you see this with

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Speaker 3: all kinds of funding relationships, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: Like philanthropy is a pursuit of the wealthy for a

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Speaker 3: very good reason. Right, Sometimes it's a feel good thing.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it's a clever investment. We should always be we

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Speaker 3: should always be skeptical when people are claiming altruism, right,

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Speaker 3: and there's a great stuff you should know episode about

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Speaker 3: whether altruism exists in the first place. Do check that out.

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Speaker 3: That's a that's a deep cut hit. But I like,

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Speaker 3: I love what you're pointing out here, which is that

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Speaker 3: NED has these goals and these aspirations that on paper

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Speaker 3: seem fine but vague. The real reason NED exists, or

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Speaker 3: the reason was birth, was not just for fundsies spreading

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Speaker 3: democracy and economic liberty and so on. It was primarily

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Speaker 3: a reaction against what the US saw as the threat

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Speaker 3: of communism. So everybody in Congress. It's a bipartisan thing.

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Speaker 3: These groups who usually hate each other's ideas, they get together,

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Speaker 3: they do a Captain Planet thing, and they make this private,

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Speaker 3: nonprofit entity. I have a hard time saying nonprofit and

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Speaker 3: private because it gives grants to trade unions, political groups,

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Speaker 3: business trade associations, and it does it entirely at the

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Speaker 3: beginning to purportedly fight communism. And it sounds, you know,

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Speaker 3: old school in the modern day, but we have to remember,

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Speaker 3: looking back from twenty twenty six, that this thing was

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Speaker 3: formed in the nineteen eighties and politicians on all sides

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Speaker 3: tended to see communism as the number one threat to

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Speaker 3: the post World War two order, because America really liked

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Speaker 3: the post World War two order.

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Speaker 2: Because they ran things right.

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Speaker 3: They had all the all the toys, and they're like, ah, man,

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Speaker 3: your factories are bombed. That's terrible. Ours are fine, though, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: ours are ours, Ours are Do you want a car?

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Speaker 3: What a car you can if you get rid of

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Speaker 3: these pesky leaders of your country. Yeah. Yeah. So anything

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Speaker 3: and everything that could prevent the spread of communism was

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Speaker 3: seen as a service to the greater goods. So even

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Speaker 3: if it wasn't technically legal, it was on the table.

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Speaker 3: It was a viable option. Ned's not a military force,

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Speaker 3: like we said, they grants financial assistance in place of bullets.

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Speaker 3: You could say they waged anti communism war with dollars

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Speaker 3: and pens and pens, yes, pens and paperwork.

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Speaker 2: I guess we could bring this up. At least. One

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Speaker 2: of the things that NED created is the Journal of Democracy.

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Speaker 2: And just when I'm thinking about using pens, right, the

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Speaker 2: National Endowment of Democracy has a Journal of Democracy. Within

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Speaker 2: that you can see all sorts of academic writing about

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Speaker 2: things democracy. If you go to the front of the

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Speaker 2: website now journalodemocracy dot org, you have the first thing

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Speaker 2: you see. It's an article titled how Venezuela actually becomes

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Speaker 2: a democracy? And when you just, you know, you read that,

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Speaker 2: you let that sink in. You think about what's happening

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Speaker 2: in the world today, especially on the day the Epstein

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Speaker 2: files are going to get released, right, Dylan, We had

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Speaker 2: a tiny conversation Ben earlier about how on the day

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Speaker 2: the Epstein files get released, something might happen. Wouldn't it

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Speaker 2: be convenient if there was a land strike in Venezuela

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Speaker 2: in the same day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, would it? Would it be convenient if there was

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Speaker 3: a successful land strike because the last ones it work whatever?

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Speaker 3: Being objective, Yeah, well sorry, Cia, not every swing is

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Speaker 3: going to be a home run. But that's the nature

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Speaker 3: of a sport. Okay, No, hopefully we could keep it.

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Speaker 2: I just don't like thinking about it as a sport,

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Speaker 2: that's all. It makes me uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: It should It's a very uncomfortable analogy because of the accuracy,

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Speaker 3: you know. But here's the thing that I love your

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Speaker 3: pointing this out. The war for hearts and minds. That's

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Speaker 3: kind of what we stumbled on with National Endowment for

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Speaker 3: Democracy in our Atlas episode. NED is a private enterprise.

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Speaker 3: But when you hear things like, uh, these academic papers

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Speaker 3: that are kind of fluffing up their opinions under the

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Speaker 3: sheep's wull of fact what happens in all the soft sciences.

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Speaker 3: But when you when you hear about this stuff, do

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Speaker 3: read it. Do check it out if you have to.

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Speaker 3: I'm an interest because Americans, you paid for it. Despite

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Speaker 3: being a private entity. Ned's funding comes from Congress, which

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Speaker 3: means it comes from you through a weird a weird

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Speaker 3: sort of like Latroshka doll agglomeration of different agencies cutting

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Speaker 3: a little bit of the pizza from their budget. Go

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Speaker 3: to NED.

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Speaker 2: I'm confused. It's a non governmental organization.

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Speaker 3: It says, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it is funded by

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Speaker 3: the government just what, by the way, and it is

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Speaker 3: subject to congressional oversight, so they do have to do

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Speaker 3: what their funders tell them to do. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's people watching right now, going, guys, it's pretty easy.

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Speaker 2: You're being silly about this, but it is weird, right,

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Speaker 2: even if you understand this fully and you're in a

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Speaker 2: college somewhere watching this on Netflix for some reason, which

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Speaker 2: why are you doing that?

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Speaker 3: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. But they're gonna know.

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Speaker 3: They already know, yeah already.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean we had we did a whole episode

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Speaker 2: on non governmental organizations, as we've done episodes on all

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Speaker 2: these topics kind of in their own separate categories, right

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Speaker 2: in their own separate episodes. But non governmental organizations often

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Speaker 2: get used, whether even let's say the leaders of an

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Speaker 2: organization know or not, for other aims.

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Speaker 3: Right, Which is why why you might end up in

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Speaker 3: a strange career crossroads if you're thinking about being in

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Speaker 3: the CIA or thinking about pulling a few years at Greenpeace.

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Speaker 3: Check out our episode why don't other Countries trust in geos?

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Speaker 3: There's a lot to it if you take away nothing else,

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Speaker 3: if you actually please tune into that show. But we

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Speaker 3: need to know is we take pains to say a

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Speaker 3: vast majority of people working with at or four in

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Speaker 3: geos are cartoonishly good people. Oh yeah, like they want

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Speaker 3: they want to help folks read, they want to eradicate disease,

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Speaker 3: they want to improve sanitation and infrastructure, and every so

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Speaker 3: often there will be shadowy forces that take advantage of

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Speaker 3: those relationships, yep.

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Speaker 2: And some of those organizations could become politicized as well,

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Speaker 2: and with again, without the human beings who are actually

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Speaker 2: doing the works knowledge or without you know, a full

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Speaker 2: understanding the actual humans on the ground. As you said, Ben,

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Speaker 2: just a part that one more time, because we both

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Speaker 2: have some friends, actually quite a few friends and even

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Speaker 2: family members who have worked for NGOs over the years,

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Speaker 2: who just like you said, went to school literally for

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Speaker 2: this stuff that's going to help people, like public health,

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Speaker 2: like issues regarding immigration and refugee status and all that

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So just not poop pooing the human being, not.

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Speaker 3: At all, Yeah, it's usually not the specific human. It's

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Speaker 3: usually going to be the system and a lot of

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Speaker 3: these shenanigans. And for another if we if we're thinking

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Speaker 3: through Ned's strange relationship with the government, another analogy would

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Speaker 3: be someone explaining their household to you and they say, oh, yeah, here,

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Speaker 3: let me introduce you to my kids. Also, this is

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Speaker 3: Freddy and they say, oh, it's Freddie when you're kids,

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Speaker 3: and they say, no, he lives here, we raised him,

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Speaker 3: we pay for everything he does. Technically he's his own man.

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Speaker 3: And they're like, oh, well, fred, it's nice to meet you.

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Speaker 3: And he says, I'm not part of this house, but

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Speaker 3: you live here.

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Speaker 2: Get something out of the fridge.

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Speaker 3: While out of the fridge, yeah, I'm not part of

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Speaker 3: the Oh wow, Fred's a super villain in the making.

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Speaker 3: That is a weird comparison, though it is accurate for Ned.

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Speaker 3: I mean, to a lot of people, this would just

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Speaker 3: be another example of Labyrintine bureaucracy, right, too many, too

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Speaker 3: many people eyeing and off or weighing in on an email.

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Speaker 3: But the others there's something sinister afoot. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: no surprise, man, that Ned has been the subject of

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Speaker 3: so much concern and scrutiny and controversy there was. I know,

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Speaker 3: we both saw this. There was this excellent summation from

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Speaker 3: Slate by the writer Brendan I. Kohoner, and he said, quote,

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Speaker 3: depending on whom you ask, Ned is either a nonprofit

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Speaker 3: champion of liberty or it's an ideologically driven meddler in

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Speaker 3: world affairs.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 3: The only thing, agreed Brendan, and great work, by the way,

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Speaker 3: The only thing that I would question there is whether

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Speaker 3: those two pursuits are mutually exclusive from their perspective, You.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Nope, Fred goes to the next house over and starts

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Speaker 3: to starts to get the kids to protest.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Fred, what's in your fridge?

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Speaker 3: Right? Yeah? You know it's crazy that who are these

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Speaker 3: people to tell you what kind of snacks you can have?

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Speaker 3: Or your parents voted for your parents?

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Speaker 2: Whoa out there just spreading, spreading, making everybody distrust each other.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, Fred said, anyone could get it, anyone could

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Speaker 3: catch astray. And that's what Ned said too.

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Speaker 1: God.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Ned gets in trouble with both the right and

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Speaker 3: the left of American politics. Even now, in this incredibly

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Speaker 3: divisive time. You will see folks who might tend to

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Speaker 3: identify more on the conservative side of the spectrum, They'll

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Speaker 3: say NED is terrible. Ned, is this Tommy red socialist agenda?

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Speaker 3: You know, they're an enemy of everything we stand for.

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Speaker 3: And then more liberal folks will say, yeah, right on,

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Speaker 3: it's terrible because it's a right wing cold dinosaur. I

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Speaker 3: hate NED too, And then we are both like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we both hate Ned. But wait, why do you hate Ned?

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Speaker 2: Do we hold on this cold war thing? Where do

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Speaker 2: we stand on that? Is that still happening? Do we

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Speaker 2: need Ned?

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00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? Do we need Ned? What's going on? Eventually people

401
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Speaker 3: get past their harumps and say, what what do we

402
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Speaker 3: really know about the National Endowment? What does it do?

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Speaker 3: And why do all of us, very different people with

404
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Speaker 3: very different backgrounds, why do we all seem to have

405
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Speaker 3: a problem with this guy, this nonprofit, non government but

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Speaker 3: still government funded entity.

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Speaker 2: I love quasi autonomous.

408
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Speaker 3: Quasi autonomous. Yeah, everybody is quasi autonomous. Do you know

409
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Speaker 3: what I mean? It's as confusing as the Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 3: But okay, let's do Why do people have a problem

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Speaker 3: with it? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsors,

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Speaker 3: who may also somehow be sponsored by NED. Oh here's

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Speaker 3: where it gets crazy. Oh man, this is part of

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Speaker 3: what we held off on in our at List Network episode.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the concerns again that people across spectrums

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Speaker 3: are raising for very different reasons. A lot of these

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Speaker 3: concerns are traced back to Ned's connection to other groups.

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Speaker 3: Just picture us folks like the Charlie Day meme right

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Speaker 3: or like in our old videos, we're connecting the red

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Speaker 3: string and the dots.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Let's do a shout out here

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Speaker 2: really quickly to Noah, who has sent us in dozens

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Speaker 2: and dozens of voicemails and I think maybe even a

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Speaker 2: few emails.

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Speaker 3: Telling out emails, okay, telling.

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Speaker 2: Us about the National Endowment for Democracy specifically with relation

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Speaker 2: to that list network. It's way too much to put

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Speaker 2: on the air, Noah, Sorry about that, but hey, thank

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Speaker 2: you for putting us on it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, and iou response on the email stuff too.

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Speaker 3: We've got we've got something here that is probably our

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Speaker 3: prime connecting point. Despite receiving direct US government funding, which

433
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 3: means funding from you if you pay taxes in the

434
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 3: United States, beat me here. Dylan nets with the at

435
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 3: List Network to a heavy and deep degree, and we

436
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 3: always talk about this. We love hearing examples of it.

437
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 3: If you go into the heights of politics, or corporations,

438
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 3: or a lot of international institutions, you will see an

439
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 3: increasingly small population of decision makers. Folks are on a

440
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 3: board of one place, they're on board of another place,

441
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: as well as the board of another place, and they

442
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 3: often all hang out, right. They They may winge and

443
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 3: moan and have some sound and fury for the populace

444
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: in the Hoi poloi, But when they're on the golf

445
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: course together and they're like, man, you're a wild win

446
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 3: for that. Fred. Fred is now in his forties. Fred

447
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: has moved up in his forties. He plays golf. He's

448
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 3: on a lot of board of director positions, and he's

449
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: he's on the board of multiple things. He's like Matt Warner,

450
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 3: the current president of Atlas.

451
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: The current president's name is Matt Warner. That's so strange.

452
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 2: And I actually know a Matt Warner, a great musician

453
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: here in Atlanta.

454
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: Well, that's what he's doing. You're not hanging out with

455
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: him director.

456
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: Okay, It's okay, cool.

457
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: He might he might do that, he might do that thing.

458
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: I'm guilty of it as well of not being forthright

459
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 3: unless someone ask a direct question, and then your pal

460
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: Matt Warner might say, oh, yeah, Matt, you know me

461
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: because of the guitar. Right, but yeah, Atlas that's that's

462
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: also me. It's mainly in the Iraq and then also

463
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: a global think take network.

464
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: I just didn't understand your question. Anyway, let's get to

465
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: the fifth.

466
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: Hole exactly right. Daylight's wasting the Yeah. The current president

467
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: of Atlas Network, Matt Warner, is a pen Kemball fellow

468
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: on ned's website, so he he also has a deep

469
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: relationship with the National Endowment. He's the guy who coined

470
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: the term outsider's dilemma, and he calls he uses this

471
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 3: term he's a brilliant man. Actually, he uses this term

472
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: to describe what he sees as the challenge of helping

473
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: low income countries develop right, get better infrastructure, birth more businesses,

474
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: have a bigger role in the global trade economy, like

475
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 3: build a nation, build a nation, right, yeah, careful of

476
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: that one. He says, how do we do this as outsiders?

477
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: How do we come into this unfamiliar place and help

478
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: people progress without And this is his the way he

479
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: puts it without inadvertently getting in the way of their

480
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 3: most viable paths to prosperity any words verging on poetic,

481
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: But one person's prosperity can vary widely from another person's

482
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: version of the same thing.

483
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds very noble, right, It sounds like he's

484
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: reaching for the heart of the thing we talked about

485
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: at the top of this, injecting money so that companies, individuals,

486
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: countries can prosper right and can better themselves and each other.

487
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: It does sound an awful lot like things that have

488
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: been ringing at least and been in my ears since

489
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: I started paying attention with the I Rock Invasion two

490
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: thousand and three. That's when I really started paying attention

491
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: to stuff like this, about words that are used to

492
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: hint at nation building and going in and altering a

493
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: place from within.

494
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and shout out to one of my side gigs,

495
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 3: global opportunity momentum. Yeah, yeah, sounds good, right, Yeah, yeah,

496
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: it's we mainly take oil, but we also use that

497
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: opportunity as a momentum.

498
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: And AK forty seven or those not anymore.

499
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: We're moving out of the AK thing, Okay, Okay, We're

500
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: We're heavy into the opportunity momentum of drones. Oh okay,

501
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: I'm actually I don't know about you guys. Are scaring

502
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 3: myself a bit because opportunity momentum is just such a

503
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: Ted Talkie international institution phrase. Yeah, we can start using that.

504
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: We're often I bet you. Okay, So, folks, we have

505
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: we have a a work call after this, Matt Dylan,

506
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I can slide in

507
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: the phrase opportunity momentum. Yeah, pull it off. Maybe maybe

508
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: we started saying falcon instead of cool. I can't believe

509
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 3: we got away with that one.

510
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: I think I think you started saying falcon. But I'm

511
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: into it.

512
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 3: Oh, you're gonna do it. It'll be fun. But yeah,

513
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 3: I love the point you're making there, man, because yes,

514
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 3: these are pretty words. But if you look at the

515
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: connections between the people in power and these organizations and

516
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: ATLAS and in NED and indeed in parts of the

517
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: Intel apparatus, you're going to see some commonalities and what

518
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: they're actually doing on the ground. And if you do

519
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: not care for the activities of the Atlas network, you're

520
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: probably also not gonna dig a lot of the projects

521
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: that NED is into I mean NED is like we

522
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: said earlier, Ned's the brainchild of Project Democracy that was

523
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: created by the National Security Decision Directive seventy seven. What Yeah,

524
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: I know, I know if you throw enough weird names

525
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: that people, their eyes will glaze over and they'll stop

526
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 3: asking the important questions.

527
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: Dude.

528
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 3: That's what we call the opportunity momentum of confusion.

529
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: Yes, what was the presidential administration that this was created under.

530
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: Ah, yes, it's our old pal, the giver.

531
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ronald six Wilson six right six, I.

532
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 3: Think from Ronald six six right. Yeah. This goes back

533
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: to our boy from earlier, from the Atlas episode, Sir

534
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 3: Anthony George Anson Fisher. He's the guy who had some

535
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: real ideological hang ups or goals, and he made all

536
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: these vaguely named think tanks that informed the policies of

537
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: the Reagan administration. This is real wheels within wheel stuff.

538
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: That is very strange to have it been created then

539
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 2: by that by you know that person. Yeah, at least influenced,

540
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: right or or that's what we're saying. We're saying the

541
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 2: ideas the Fisher had played a big part in this thing.

542
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: Oh man, uh million percent. No one checked the math,

543
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: but probably one hundred percent. Yeah, somewhere in there. I mean,

544
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: because he was do check out the episode. We don't

545
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: want to get back into it with the Atlas Network

546
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 3: because it is such a rabbit hole.

547
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: But he is.

548
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: One of the most important thought leaders in modern American

549
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 3: history that remains obscure and it is it is so strange.

550
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: I mean, this means that for some time there's been

551
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 3: a hand and glove situation, a way to move private

552
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: corporate interest through the laundry of perceivably public state power.

553
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: Good right, Like when the United States, powered by Edward

554
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: Burneze overthrew democratically elected leaders in Latin America. It was

555
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 3: advertised as a fight against communism, it was advertised as

556
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 3: a fight for human rights. It was actually resource extraction.

557
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 2: Oh well, no, no, I know what you mean. For

558
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: these episodes that we make, just if you're newer to

559
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: the show, we often use Wikipedia as a way to

560
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: start to have a jumping off point, a place where

561
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: there's a bibliography that then you can go down and

562
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 2: look at let's say, news articles, books, things that have

563
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: been cited within Wikipedia to jump to new things or

564
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: things that you can at least back up right it's

565
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: a source that you can follow to its original source.

566
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: One of those things that we found in there was

567
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty three from the New York Times, when

568
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: this endowment was first created. And when you're looking through

569
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: that to see how what the journalists and politicians at

570
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: the time are thinking about when this thing is created

571
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 2: and some of the opinion pieces that are put out

572
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: in that moment. So not looking back at history, it's

573
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: like this was if this was happening in Congress today, right,

574
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: what would it look like? What would people be saying

575
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: on c SPAN And in this original article May twenty ninth,

576
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four of the New York Times. You can

577
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: find this online on the CIA's website. Actually, Ben A. Franklin,

578
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: writing for The New York Times, talks about this suspected

579
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: CIA ties of the National Endowment for Democracy, like the

580
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: moment that has formed. So it's not as though this

581
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: is some kind of rumor situation that's been going around

582
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: because it was, you know, posted on some websites early

583
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 2: in the Internet history, or because people are starting rumors

584
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: like that. This is something that the Gray Lady was

585
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: talking about, right, Yeah, this is.

586
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 3: Not doggerel on a sidewalk, nor's a bathroom graffiti? Right?

587
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 3: These are not unfounded criticisms. In fact, NED, the National

588
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 3: Endowment has sometimes been called the CIA's sidekick or even

589
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 3: a new CIA, and their leadership, the very own leadership,

590
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: has made various statements about their activities and the agency's

591
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 3: past intelligence work. So let's go to nineteen ninety one

592
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 3: when the co founders of National Endowment that we mentioned earlier,

593
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 3: Alan Weinstein, he explicitly stated this. He said, and we

594
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: are quoting verbatim, much of ned's work involves doing what

595
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 3: the CIA used to do. So huh so he said that,

596
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 3: not us, You know what I mean? He said that,

597
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 3: not some anonymous person on a subreddit. The question becomes,

598
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 3: why is a shadowy big government operation itself funding a

599
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 3: meta organization that purports to be against big authoritarian government.

600
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: What exactly is NED doing around the world. Let's look

601
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 3: at some specific examples. All right, if you checked out

602
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: our Atlas episode, you know about the AstroTurf protest. AstroTurf

603
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 3: is astroturfing in a protest or a movement is when

604
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: a large organization, usually very well funded, often very powerful.

605
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 3: It's when that organization creates a series of fronts to

606
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 3: appear as though there is an organic movement, a grassroots movement.

607
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 3: That's what I call it astroturfing, But it's not. They're

608
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: often paid protesters, they're sometimes they're professional actors. They're all

609
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 3: kind and sometimes you know, they're operatives straight up.

610
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, like spies essentially, or CIA type styled folks. And

611
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: they were talking about this even in nineteen eighty four

612
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 2: in the New York Times, about this very this exact

613
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: type of thing that is suspected of the National Endowment

614
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: in places like El Salvador. So just be aware of

615
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: that as we continue along here.

616
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, they've been repeatedly accused of sneakily astroturfing protests at

617
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 3: the behest of the United States. And this is the

618
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: beautiful part of the process ethics aside. By doing it

619
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 3: this way, you create just enough distance for Uncle Sam

620
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 3: to say, hey, it was thus you guys. You know

621
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: it's your locals pushing for democracy. We're the ones of

622
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 3: what to sell the oil. Why are you yelling at me?

623
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And because it's a quasi autonomous organization, nobody even

624
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 2: gots to know really what's happening besides a few select

625
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: people right. So it's like that word bend that we

626
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: use all the time when the entirety of the organization

627
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 2: doesn't need to know what's going on over here and

628
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 2: can have plausible deny ability about that.

629
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, exactly, this is this is the thing. Senator.

630
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 3: Thank you for your questions. As this is a quasi

631
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: governmental entity. I quasi know what you're talking about, and

632
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 3: I can only quasi confirm, and I can only quasi comment.

633
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 3: I can neither quasi confirm nor quasi deny. You can

634
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: see cases of this where allegations thereof in Malaysia and Thailand, Russia,

635
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 3: China and way more. I mean, Matt, what do you say,

636
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 3: do we go to an ad break? You want to

637
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 3: dive into maybe Malaysia and Thailand for Oh.

638
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: Some of my favorite foods come out of both of

639
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: those places. Let's hold for a break because I'm getting hungry,

640
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 2: and they we'll be right back.

641
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 3: Oh right, folks, we'll be right back after a word

642
00:40:51,719 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: from our sponsors, and we have returned. All right. It's

643
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. There are these protests rocking Thailand, and I

644
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: can confirm I was not involved. I was not there

645
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 3: at the time. There are these program groups that say

646
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 3: it just has to be said. There are these government

647
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 3: groups that said, hey, this National Endowment of Democracy over

648
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: there in the States, they are clearly supporting protesters, and

649
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 3: that means there is clear proof that Uncle Sam is

650
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 3: orchestrating these protests. They are not organic. Uncle Sam is

651
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: empowering these and they're trying to force regime change in

652
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: a sovereign country.

653
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 2: That before student led movements. Things like that. Sure in

654
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: a lot of different countries, including here in the United States.

655
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: Especially Latin America, because we talked about it and I

656
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 3: remember listening back to one of our episodes. Yeah, that's

657
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 3: the unspoken rule across who has politics and policy. There

658
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 3: shall be no other real sovereign nation in the US backyard.

659
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 3: And Thailand is saying, no, this is not Latin America.

660
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: You guys, that's not gonna fly. The US denied these allegations.

661
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: Go to the embassy in Bangkok and they say, no, no, no,

662
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 3: we are not funding protesters, not supporting them. This is

663
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 3: a big deal because if you're familiar with international affairs

664
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 3: and state level interactions, if you are an embassy, or

665
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 3: you're a state department bloke of some sort, or you're

666
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 3: in a foreign service outfit, you have standing policies about

667
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 3: what you officially can and cannot do to pursue your

668
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 3: own country's goals, and there are bright lines in the road.

669
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 3: So if, for instance, we're ambassadors, and I am an

670
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 3: ambassador in a country that maybe doesn't have the best

671
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: relationship with the US, I can make speeches all the

672
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 3: livelong day. I'd be like, you know what's great democracy,

673
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 3: you know what's super dope economic prosperity. But I cannot

674
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 3: arm sedition forces. I cannot blatantly attempt to overthrow the

675
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 3: governments as a representative of the United States. Again, officially,

676
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 3: I can talk all the right and I probably have to,

677
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: and I've got some talking points that came to me

678
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 3: from Washington, but I cannot cross the line from rhetoric

679
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 3: to concrete anti government action.

680
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 2: Yes, but as an ambassador, you are kind of playing

681
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 2: that role of being a bit shiny and I don't

682
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 2: want to say a distraction, but something that happens in

683
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: the foreground while perhaps there's other things happening in the background.

684
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: We have no idea what goes on in that secure

685
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: it room, folks. That's the embassy is a big building,

686
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 3: you know, what I mean, the elevator is not that great.

687
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 3: You try walking down four nights of basement steps every

688
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 3: single day. Yeah, I think they're cool. I see them

689
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: at lunch, but yeah, I think just the Wi Fi working.

690
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 2: It's funny to imagine the ambassador, you know, that appointed

691
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 2: position here at least within the United States CETU, right,

692
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 2: and then you know they'll go out there and there's

693
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 2: a big fanfare when the ambassador is going to an

694
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: event or something, right, But ultimately it's the folks that

695
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: are shadowing the ambassador or you know, the quasi autonomous

696
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: people behind him exactly.

697
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, and some of us in the audience have had

698
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 3: experience with that kind of stuff in the past. For sure.

699
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 3: It's not always sinister. And I love that you're pointing out.

700
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 3: In the United States, an ambassador can be a political hire,

701
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: so not necessarily someone who got there, you know, ir

702
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 3: studies degree from Georgetown or from gw or something. They

703
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: can be people who donated enough money to a campaign.

704
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 2: We've seen that a lot, I would say, in the past,

705
00:44:58,880 --> 00:44:59,959
Speaker 2: like through the twenty years.

706
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's accelerating a little bit, and I

707
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 3: don't think it's a great thing. That's not the cast

708
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 3: dispersion on any specific ambassador. That is to say, again,

709
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: it's not the people, it's the system. And this is

710
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 3: what Russia and China are saying too.

711
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: No wait wait, yeah, that's what the National Endema for

712
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: Democracy is saying. It's not a people, it's the system

713
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: that we got to change. Man.

714
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Especially if the system is this leftist world leader

715
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 3: who might just nationalize mining resources. That guy's the system.

716
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 3: That guy doesn't count as a person. There's no other

717
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 3: way to say it. Russia and China eight NED, they

718
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 3: bore it, they loathe it. They've got big unhappy ex

719
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 3: partner energy. Right. They talk about NED the way that

720
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 3: your most problematic friend talks about the Rex spouse ouch.

721
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: I know, right.

722
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 3: And Russia has repeatedly accused NED of being a straight

723
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 3: up hostile force, illegally supporting citing protests, surreptitiously working to

724
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 3: overthrow world leaders elected leaders in the former sphere of

725
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 3: Soviet influence. One of the most notable versions of that

726
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 3: would be guys president of Ukraine for a time, Viktor Yanikovich.

727
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: But they also levy. They also levy accusations about possible

728
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 3: net activity and Moldova and Belarus, pretty much any place

729
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 3: that used to be a Soviet satellite state. They say

730
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 3: NET is trying to put their fingers on the scale.

731
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: Dude, well we know that Russia. I don't know so

732
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 2: much to China, but I know Russia for sure has

733
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: banned a lot of activities of other non governmental organizations

734
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 2: within Russia or any of their territories. Right was NED

735
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: one of those?

736
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about this again our wide don't nations

737
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 3: trust in Goo's episode. Russia didn't just throw some stank

738
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: in media or in public statements from politicians. They put

739
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: their money where the mouth is. The National Endowment for

740
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 3: Democracy was the very first in GEO banned in Russia

741
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: when they rolled out their new laws, their undesirable in

742
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: GEO laws in twenty fifteen. They made it for other NGOs,

743
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 3: but they specifically targeted NED because they thought NED was

744
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 3: a hidden hand of the CIA, and China has They

745
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: didn't explicitly say that at the time, but NED was

746
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 3: first on the list. China has similar beef twenty fourteen

747
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: Hong Kong protests, because there's always a protest in Hong Kong.

748
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 3: Chinese state media said the US is using NED as

749
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 3: a proxy to fund protesters, and this time Matt Dillon.

750
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 3: This time a couple of American politicos in the know

751
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 3: heard the news and they were asked maybe they were

752
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 3: a little too off the cuff. They said, Hey, the

753
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 3: Chinese government is saying that ned is is a proxy

754
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 3: force for instability.

755
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: Abroad or is at least funding them, right, it.

756
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: Is funding it. Yeah, And a couple of guys said, well,

757
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 3: you know, it's not totally false.

758
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 2: Ooh, generally you wouldn't get that. Yeah, we'ld see, but well, yeah,

759
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 2: and we're kind of joking. If you don't know that

760
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: much about Hong Kong, I do not, But I do

761
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: know that that is one of the places where there's

762
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: some serious tensions that occur, ideological tensions that occur, and

763
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: then it becomes and it has not yet, right, has

764
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 2: it become a hot conflict of any kind, whether proxy

765
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: or not. But it feels as though the tensions there

766
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 2: are rising, the ideological tensions are rising.

767
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been. It's been pretty tense since ninety nine,

768
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: right when the British gave it up. China goes on

769
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 3: to sanctioned NED as an anti China force in the

770
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 3: wake of the later twenty nineteen twenty twenty Hong Kong protests.

771
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 3: The United States officially denies any shenanigans, but we see

772
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 3: similar accusations coming from India, Egypt, Iran, of course, Venezuela

773
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 3: all the hits, you know, I mean, throw Kouba in

774
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: while we're at it, just all the good ones.

775
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: Did you see the recent thing with Venezuela reaching out

776
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: to the UN basically saying, Hey, the US is getting

777
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 2: squirrely over here. We need your help.

778
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and this isn't the first time they've said that,

779
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 3: but this is probably one of the more public times.

780
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: They are also instituting naval escorts for Librari time vessels

781
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 3: because you know, from their perspective, they're protecting their people,

782
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 3: right and their businesses.

783
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they're resources that are like Venezuela's. I don't know.

784
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 2: Fee feels really weird to me.

785
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: And I think there was great timing on that Shadow

786
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 3: Fleet episode.

787
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: This also makes me think of did we do a

788
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 2: full episode on us AI D. We talked about it

789
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 2: a lot during Strange News On Mondays. We put out

790
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 2: Strange News episodes you can find on the podcast. Check

791
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: those out.

792
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 3: For sure.

793
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: We just we break down as much of the strangest

794
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: news we can in one episode, but in there many

795
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: times the story will come up where we're talking about

796
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: USA I D, which was a more uh non quasi

797
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: governmental like a more actual governmental thing that the US

798
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: does to inject funds all over the world, sometimes through

799
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: NGO's just it varies a lot, but just the fact

800
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 2: that that entire thing got shut down, the infrastructure for

801
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 2: all of the USA ai D activities got shut down recently,

802
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: it does make me imagine that that was that was

803
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 2: a blow to these kinds of WOD We say, it's

804
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 2: not soft democracy and that's not the right term soft power,

805
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: soft power.

806
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to return to that stuff, folks, And

807
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 3: we do hope you check out the Strange News segment

808
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: we do every week on the podcast because it does

809
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 3: inform episodes in the future and this idea of okay,

810
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 3: so China going back to these protests, they say the

811
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 3: quiet part out loud, explicitly, blatantly. They say, we think

812
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 3: NED is working for the CIA or is pretty much

813
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 3: the CIA. And we've got that statement already from the

814
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: co founder Alan Weinstein. We have to ask how deep

815
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 3: the rabbit hole goes, and this is where we go

816
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 3: to an excellent, if divisive and opinionated a series of

817
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 3: works by analysts like Kristin Christman over at counter Currents,

818
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 3: and she notes that even if NED is not a

819
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 3: CIA front, it did come around at the perfect time.

820
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 3: The CIA was in hot water, under heavy sc brutiny,

821
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 3: probably because it had violated the United States own laws

822
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 3: by funding contrast who were trying to overthrow Niicaragua's left

823
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 3: wing government. The CIA had a huge blow to its

824
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 3: international rep but little trust it had with the international

825
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 3: community was heavily eroded. So essentially they needed something to

826
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: take the heat off, and they wanted to take the

827
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 3: heat off without actually pausing their current activities. So inter

828
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 3: Net on stage. So, yes, folks, if you're watching now,

829
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 3: if you're listening now, I want to assure you, not

830
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 3: clause I assure you. I want to one hundred percent

831
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 3: explicitly confirmed to you that the National Endowment for Democracy

832
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 3: does do some of the stuff that the CIA once did. Directly,

833
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: that's just non negotiable. It's not arguable. Not everything the

834
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: CIA does is bad, not everything NED does is bad,

835
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: but they they definitely love a greater good.

836
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: That greater good is so enticing, isn't it.

837
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 3: I love a greater good. You ever had a greater good?

838
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 2: Dog, I've had a couple of greater goods, a couple

839
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: of greater goods. Struggload a greater goods.

840
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 3: You gotta get off, you gotta get off that regular good.

841
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: It's the greater good. Okay. So Chrisman is arguing that

842
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: while while supporters of NED say there's no proof that

843
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 3: it's a front of any sort, she argues, there's no

844
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 3: proof that NED is quote actually engaged in promoting democracy

845
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 3: end quote. Instead, she says, if it is, those good

846
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 3: faith efforts are dwarfed by ned's other actions, which end

847
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 3: up thwarting democracy, attempting to cripple democratic institutions around the world.

848
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 3: It's not so much a verification of whether the people

849
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 3: get to vote on the leader they want. It's weather

850
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 3: NED and its masters like who that public is voting for.

851
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 3: It's a very dangerous thing.

852
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: I wonder if we could take a moment to go

853
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,439
Speaker 2: to the National and Down for Democracy's website and read

854
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 2: some of the news that they're posting here, just so

855
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 2: we can get a taste of like what's officially being

856
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 2: said or put out there. Do you think that's worth

857
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 2: our time? Really fast?

858
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 3: Sure? Go for it? Yeah?

859
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: Okay, So December fourteenth, twenty twenty five, NED welcome's new

860
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 2: wave of political prisoner releases in Belarus.

861
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 3: Told you yeah.

862
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 2: An impact report from December ninth, Venezuela supporting citizens democratic

863
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 2: rights amid and hold on what we got a dot

864
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 2: dot dot amid crisis? Why did they omit crisis from

865
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 2: that headline on there? That seems silly?

866
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it depends on the power and approval rate

867
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 3: of NED. Right, they've they got the fingers and that

868
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 3: of paes. Their approval and their power has whacked and

869
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 3: waned over the years, similar to so many other institutions.

870
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 3: It almost lost funding multiple times, perhaps most recently notable

871
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen. That's when the current US President Donald J.

872
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 3: Trump unsuccessfully sought to slash the funding of NET entirely

873
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 3: of the National Endowment for Democracy. They get money from Congress,

874
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 3: from the State Department, a couple other places, but again,

875
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 3: if you pay taxes, you pay for NET. So for

876
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 3: a lot of people in the United States and abroad

877
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 3: who absolutely disliked the current president, this was seen as

878
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 3: him doing the bidding of authoritarian rulers like Russia's Vladimir Putin.

879
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 3: It didn't help that Trump and Putin have long been

880
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 3: accused of secretly conspiring with each other. It also doesn't

881
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 3: help that critics still have murky allegations that Vladimir Putin

882
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 3: is somehow blackmailing President Trump with some kind of compromat.

883
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 3: So is Trump doing that bidding? We go to a

884
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 3: quote from The New Republic where the journalist Jeet Here

885
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 3: rights Unlike every US president since Jimmy Carter, Trump doesn't

886
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 3: believe that it's in American foreign policy interest to promote

887
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,240
Speaker 3: democracy and human rights. Broad Instead, his administration is working

888
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 3: to undermine the agency tasked with doing so.

889
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 2: Seems a little weird.

890
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 3: Tricky though, tricky because it's tricksy, as Golla would say,

891
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 3: because NED is not an agency right now. It's private.

892
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's it's quasi.

893
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 3: It's quasi. It's quasi, so it exists in this weird

894
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 3: quantum liminal state, right He's also saying, or here is

895
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 3: also saying that NED is definitely promoting democracy and human rights,

896
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 3: but we have to be very careful about that. Remember

897
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 3: the actions of the Arab spring right, spearheaded by the

898
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 3: United States, the downfall of Libya. This is not a

899
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 3: defense will Mark Daffy at all. But the reason the

900
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 3: West invaded Libya finally is just because they were messing

901
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 3: with the money. That's it.

902
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: It's a strange unspoken thing, I guess, for every other

903
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: country on the planet to know that the US is

904
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: often going to be meddling and doing these kinds of activities,

905
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 2: probably in your country just a little bit, just enough

906
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 2: to keep tabs on.

907
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 3: You, yea quasi medling, just to.

908
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 2: Keep tabs on you at first, but then also if

909
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 2: you get up the things that it doesn't like, then

910
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 2: activities may increase.

911
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, how dare you try to create an African version

912
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 3: of the euro Just.

913
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 2: France, definitely don't do that.

914
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 3: That's exactly what happened. That's why they got.

915
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: We're just gonna recommend that you don't try that.

916
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 3: We're quasi pissed and we're gonna quasi do something. Yeah. Okay,

917
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 3: So before we beat at linguistic course to the ground,

918
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 3: you should know, folks that as recently as this year,

919
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 3: House Rep Member Eli Crane out of Arizona introduced a

920
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 3: new attempt to defund the National Endowment for Democracy, and

921
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 3: the idea is that, hey, if this is a private

922
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 3: institution of caause I whatever, taxpayers shouldn't be paying for it,

923
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 3: especially because they cannot determine what this entity does. I mean,

924
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 3: what's next? Tough question to answer? It is fascinating. I

925
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 3: would argue that so many people from all sorts of

926
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 3: ideological backgrounds, very stark differences, seem to have serious concerns

927
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 3: about NET. I mean, is it a good faith organization

928
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 3: spreading liberty, justice, democracy, human rights and apple pie, or,

929
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 3: as so many critics alleged, are the good folks over

930
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 3: at NET up to something else the stuff they don't

931
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 3: want you to know?

932
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 2: Doe, Hey, if you like this episode, why don't you

933
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: tell us? You can review the show in a ton

934
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 2: of different ways. Heading on over to Apple Podcasts is

935
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 2: a fun way to the show. You can also, I think,

936
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 2: on Netflix, can you give the old thumbs up?

937
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: You can double thumbs up?

938
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 2: Oh? Do that?

939
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 3: That lets Netflix know you love this? Also, we didn't

940
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 3: say this explicitly, but the reason we're referring to Netflix

941
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 3: so often right now is that we are on Netflix.

942
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 2: Maybe right now, at some point this is on Netflix,

943
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 2: but maybe now not.

944
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 3: You can also find us on the lines. You can

945
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 3: also call us on the phone. You can always send

946
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 3: us an email. Matt, let's sit them with the phone number.

947
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, our number is one eight to three three

948
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: std wy TK. Turn those letters into numbers and then

949
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 2: give it a call. It's a voicemail system. You've got

950
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname and let us

951
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 2: know if we can use your name and message on

952
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 2: one of our listener mail episodes. If you've got stuff

953
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 2: you'd like to say in writing, why not send us

954
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 2: an email. We are the entity's that.

955
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 3: Read each piece of correspondence we receive. Be well aware,

956
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 3: yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back now the things

957
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 3: we find in our weekly Strange News segment, or the

958
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 3: messages from you at our weekly listener mail segment inform

959
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 3: episodes in the future, you're the best part of the show.

960
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 3: We're so excited that you joined us and we want

961
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 3: to talk with you directly. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

962
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

963
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

964
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,