1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamorous morning TV anchor, 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: runs from a bedroom blood bath, deadly stabbing. I mean 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. I want to 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: Angela and Mack, a familiar face in the Kansas City 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: news scene, gained popularity as the morning show anchor for 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: Fox two. Her career was marked by her engaging presence 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: and dedication to delivering the news, not knowing she would 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 2: find herself back in the limelight for all the wrong reasons. 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: That deadly, that fatal blood bath in the home bedroom 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: leaves her mother, eighty years old, stabbed dead. 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 3: What do we know? 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 4: Locke is currently undergoing a court ordered mental competency evaluation. 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 4: This has temporarily paused her first degree murder case. A 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 4: new court date has not yet been scheduled. Her attorney 16 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 4: requested the evaluation. This process typically takes around sixty days. 17 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 4: The evaluation will determine if she is mentally fit to 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 4: stand trial. According to a police Sabadavid Mock, who has 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 4: a history of mental health issues, including a diagnosis of 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 4: schizo effective disorder, told police she stabbed her mother in 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 4: self defense, claiming her mother was the devil. Mock's stepfather 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 4: reported that Mock had experienced delusions in the past, including 23 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 4: saying they are all robots or they are not real people. 24 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 4: Mock remains in custody at the Sedgwick County Jail on 25 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 4: a one million dollar bond. Again, a new trial date 26 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 4: has not been scheduled. 27 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: How did we get here? Listen? 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 5: There was a woman who came and approached our vegal 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 5: with blood like her hands were filled, her body was 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 5: filled of blood, asking to conine one. 31 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 6: One seven am. A Lissa Castro and her boyfriend are 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 6: in their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down. 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 6: As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood, 34 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 6: a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman 35 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 6: asked to borrow a phone to call nine one one, 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 6: then takes off with the phone back into a house. 37 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 5: Foster if she was a king and she was pretty 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 5: shicken up and she seems scared and she just ran. 39 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: Off that from our friends, say Kae straight out to 40 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: Melissa McCarty, joining US investigative reporter, hosts of the Killer 41 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: Jeans podcast, and author of a brandy book, The Making 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: of a Crime Reporter. 43 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 3: Melissa, thank you for being with us. 44 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: Now, who is the woman sitting in a car that 45 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: observes Angelaine, the morning TV anchor, running out of the 46 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: home covered in blood. 47 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 3: Who is she? 48 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 7: She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 7: and she watched everything unfold and she said she was 50 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 7: traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there, pulling into 51 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 7: the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them, 52 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 7: begging for help. So obviously they stop and she's asking 53 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 7: for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell 54 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 7: phone and she takes it, runs inside the house and 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 7: doesn't return. 56 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: The informant the neighbor refers to Angeline Mock as this woman, specifically, 57 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: this woman. 58 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 8: A lot of people are going to get face to 59 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 8: face with a turkey this Thursday, because it is Thanksgiving 60 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 8: and because so many people are going to be basing 61 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 8: their turkey. 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: We do like to talk about grease and where it 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: should go. A lot of people don't know that. 64 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 8: All that grease everybody on the block is cooking a turkey, 65 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 8: and that grease can be very problematic. 66 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: That is from our friends at Fox two News, and 67 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: that is Angeline Mock who ran from the home covered 68 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: in blood. Curious to Dan Murphy joining US former NYPD 69 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: detective sergeant on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and former 70 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: chief security officer co host of podcast gold Shields. Dan Murphy, 71 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: you know this woman, the TV anchor, is drenched in blood. 72 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: When police finally get to the scene, they find something 73 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: even worse. Her eighty year old mother, apparently bed ridden, 74 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: is stabbed dead in her own bed. That's the mom 75 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: on the left. 76 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: The mom is Anita Avers. 77 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: I think she actually turned eighty one just before her 78 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: stabbing death. 79 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 3: So where do you even start with a scene like. 80 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 9: That, Dan, So immediately upon response, you're going to want 81 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 9: to give any medical aid you can at this point 82 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 9: if the person is not clearly deceased, and even if 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 9: they are, a medical personnel have to come and attend 84 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 9: to them, which is going to disturb the scene a bit, 85 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 9: but it has to be done. Then you're going to 86 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 9: want to preserve all the evidence you can. And I've 87 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 9: been in blood bets and you have to walk gingerly 88 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 9: around them and wear those little booties. But it needs 89 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 9: to be done because later on the evidence is all 90 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 9: going to speak through experts to a jury. So right now, 91 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 9: you're preserving evidence. 92 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: You know a piece of evidence that is commonly fumbled 93 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: through nobody's. 94 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: Fault, and that's footprints. 95 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: When you have a blood bath like the one that 96 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: happened at the home of this Fox News anchor, every 97 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: blood marking matters. It could be spray back. For instance, 98 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: this is a stabbing death. The mother, an eighty one 99 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: year old woman is stabbed multiple times. Think ted Bundy 100 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: right and the clubbing right. That's called throwback. Where the 101 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: victim is hit forcefully and then the perpetrator swings back 102 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: to strike again. 103 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: That blood is cast off right. 104 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: The cast off, if measured correctly, can determine maybe even 105 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: the height of the defendant, may be the position in 106 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: which they were when. 107 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: The attack occurred. You can tell how many times. 108 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: If you can't tell from the body, you can tell 109 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: from the cast off how many times the person was stabbed, 110 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: because every time there's a swing back, it hits in 111 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling. 112 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: And speaking of ceilings, significant explain why ceilings are important 113 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: in a case like this, that they be processed just 114 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: like all the other blood evidence. 115 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 9: Because blood evidence is airborne. Once it becomes a part 116 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 9: of cast off and it will leave an impression upon 117 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 9: the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this, 118 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 9: that evidence is going to be important because the blood 119 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 9: spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene personnel. 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 9: Understand zerology, and you understand the science of blood and 121 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 9: how it moves and how it forms and what formations 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 9: look like when it's cast off of anoder So that 123 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 9: preservation of evidence is vital, and you would want to 124 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 9: take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence. 125 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with 126 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: you as evidence. 127 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 9: I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units, 128 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 9: pieces of flooring cut out, depending upon the nature of 129 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 9: the crime. Now this week it became a homicide. You're 130 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 9: going to take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it. 131 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 9: But also you may want to take the actual physical 132 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 9: piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that 133 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 9: you can cut out, you may want to take it. 134 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 9: It's something that may be challenged by defense, you may 135 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 9: want to have it as evidentiary piece of evidence with 136 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 9: you in case it's challenge But those pieces of evidence 137 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 9: are going to tell a story and in thorough investigations. 138 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 9: I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and taken into custody. 139 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: You know, we got started on this discussion talking about 140 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined 141 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene. 142 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: You know, everybody's. 143 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: Shoes have to be taken and there has to be 144 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: a print made of them to compare to bloody shee 145 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: prints if there are any on the floor. 146 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 3: The only people that should go into that room are 147 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 3: the ones who are burdened with trying to save a life. 148 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: That's it. 149 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: And then if they can't save the eighty one year 150 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: old mom's life, they have to very gingerly back out 151 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: and get the hay out of. 152 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 3: There so the work can begin. 153 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: But when you're trying to save somebody's life, that's your 154 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: paramount concern. You're not worried about bloody footprints. Okay, let's 155 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: go back to what happened. This is it, and this 156 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: is a whole other can of worms, Dan Murphy. This 157 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: happened around seven a m. Seven am, which statistically it 158 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: is very rare for a bloodbath, a deadly blood bath, 159 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: to go down before breakfast. 160 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 3: Okay, listen, Nine. 161 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 2: One one is called and relays a message to first responders. 162 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: A woman says there has been a stabbing in her home. 163 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 10: This morning. At zero seven fifty one hours, officers responded 164 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 10: to a stabbing call in the fifteen hundred block of 165 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 10: East Crowley. When officers arrived on scene, they were met 166 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 10: in the street with a forty forty eight year old 167 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 10: white female who had suffered from some cutting cuts to 168 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 10: her hand. 169 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer, Jim Elliott, attorney 170 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: with Butler Snow Legal Council for Multiple Municipalities and Governmental 171 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: Entities at butlersnow dot com. 172 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: Jim, thank you for being with us. 173 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: Jim Elliott, You've tried a lot of cases in court. 174 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 3: Blood evidence is very tricky, especially if you don't know 175 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 3: what you're doing. 176 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: But one thing I would be looking at is the 177 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: degree to which the blood had coagulated time when amts 178 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: and first responders get there, and it's really difficult. Jim, 179 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: You've been on a lot of scenes. They're trying to 180 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,359 Speaker 1: save the eighty one year old mom's life. 181 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 3: They're not thinking has the blood coagulated. 182 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: They're trying to resuscitate her and get her airlifted. 183 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 3: To the hospital where I would come. 184 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: In as the prosecutor is critical that we know whether 185 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: the blood had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's 186 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: kind of like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore. 187 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: It's more of a jello consistency that's coagulated. And the 188 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: harder it gets, the closer it gets to being dried. 189 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: In your experience, Jim Elliott, why is it so important 190 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: that we know whether the blood was still liquid as 191 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: in water, semilated as in jello, are flat out dried? 192 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 11: Well, Certainly, I go to what time the crime actually occurred, 193 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 11: or the stabbing occurred, and probably in that case you're 194 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 11: only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the first 195 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 11: responders who can indicate what they saw, perhaps without a 196 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 11: great deal of expertise in that regard. 197 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam. 198 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: We've got to have more than that. We have to 199 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But 200 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for 201 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: the entire CSI to arrive and you could lose that 202 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: critical evidence. Why is it critical I need to know 203 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: when this eighty one year old mother was stabbed multiple 204 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: times in her bed. 205 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 3: You know another thing. 206 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: Elliot, I noticed this when prosecuting in inner city Atlanta, 207 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: when the victim is very young, like an infant, or 208 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: very old. For so reason, those cases are very often 209 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: pled down to like manslaughter of some degree. You got voluntary, 210 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: you got involuntary. I don't know why, but have you 211 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: noticed that phenomena used to burn me up? Like somehow 212 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: because the victim is really young and hadn't lived yet 213 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: as an infant. 214 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 3: Or really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you notice that. 215 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 3: I'd love to see statistic on that. 216 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 11: Well, that's certainly can be to take some I guess 217 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 11: that's kind of driven by the value of the life 218 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 11: at the. 219 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 12: Time of the passing. You all the. 220 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: Elliots of the events and blowing off commercial break the 221 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: value of the life. 222 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 12: You know what. 223 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: You sound a lot like a civil lawyer right now, 224 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: where you try to get a money verdict from a 225 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: jury and you ask the jury to put a dollar 226 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: value on somebody's life. So what if they're old, Jim Elliott, 227 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: they're just not earth as much. 228 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 3: Go ahead, put it out there. 229 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 12: It's the usual. It's the usual measure of damages. 230 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 11: Nancy whether it's morally right or it's everyone's code of 231 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 11: ethics or not. That's the way our system works. 232 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 12: With regard to that measurement. That's what I'm talking about. 233 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliott, and you've won a 234 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: lot of cases with civil juries. And now I see 235 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: why because you actually said that, like it's true. Just 236 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: because it is done, Elliott, does not mean it should 237 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: be done. That doesn't mean it's okay just because it 238 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: happens a dollar value on a life, that premise right 239 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: there is concerning to me. But that said, Jim Elliott, 240 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: I want you to tell me the truth. Isn't it 241 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: true that when the victim is an infant and you 242 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: don't have a whole lot of cute Christmas pictures and 243 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney all that, 244 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: and a really old victim. 245 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 3: I I'm telling. 246 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: You it's anecdotal, not a statistic, that those plea deals 247 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: are cheaper than they are for just to say, a young, 248 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: vibrant man or woman. 249 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 3: Have you noticed that? Be honest? 250 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 12: Yeah, it can be you. 251 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 11: I think with regard to the younger people, you can't 252 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 11: really paint a picture of their life for the jury. 253 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 12: That's what prosecutors would probably. 254 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 11: Worry about with regard to an older person. Again, there's 255 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 11: this there's going to be this attitude that they live 256 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 11: their life and. 257 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 12: You know, sadly is it. 258 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: That may be the attitude, Elliott, but they don't bring 259 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: it to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries. 260 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to. 261 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: Let Elliott sit there and think about what he just 262 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: said and move this case forward. 263 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: Listen. 264 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 13: Arriving at the home at seven point fifty two am, 265 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 13: Wichita police find a woman outside the home with cuts 266 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 13: in her hands and blood on her clothing. Insight, they 267 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 13: find eighty one year old Anita Avers own responsive inner 268 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 13: bed with multiples stab wounds. 269 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 3: Both women are taking to the hospital. 270 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 10: Officers went inside the residence found an eighty one year 271 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 10: old elderly female suffering from multiple stab stab wounds. Both 272 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 10: were transported to local hospitals. 273 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: They got to Melissa McCarty joining us side. 274 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: Miss a reporter, host of the Killer Jeans podcast which 275 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: is awesome Melissa McCarty and author of the Making of 276 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: a Crime Reporter. Melissa, what can you tell me about 277 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: the victims stabs? 278 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 3: What have you learned? 279 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 7: Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds to her as stars 280 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 7: was an upper body, her face. The specific areas police 281 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 7: haven't released that just yet, but she was attacked reportedly 282 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 7: in her bed with multiple stab wounds. 283 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 3: I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said. 284 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: Karen Start joining me, FORENSICCT psychologist, renowned TV radio trauma expert, 285 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: consultant at Karenstart dot com. 286 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,119 Speaker 3: If you're looking for her, it's Karen. 287 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: With a C. Karen, I want to talk to you 288 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: about something that shocked me to the Court and you know, Karen, 289 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: you and I bonded together in very very long hours 290 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: in the dark at Court TV studios where you and 291 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: I would sit there. I believe there were three or 292 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: four hour shifts we had watching trials live and commenting 293 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: on them whenever there would be a break. 294 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 3: Even after all that, after all the. 295 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: Cases I've tried, after all the cases you have worked on, 296 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: I was so shocked with the Brian Coburger attacks in 297 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: that well, many things, but the stabbing to the face 298 00:16:54,200 --> 00:17:04,239 Speaker 1: of Killy Gonsolves and Maddie I believe Killi Gonsolbis was 299 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: She was stabbed multiple times, but in her face alone. 300 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: There were over twenty stab wounds. Now, I'm just a 301 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: trial lawyer, you're the shrink. 302 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 3: But when a. 303 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: Victim is stabbed repeatedly in the face, there has got 304 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: to be a psychological motivation there. I don't know what 305 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: it is, but I bet you do. 306 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 14: That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because he's trying 307 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 14: to wipe out her face. He's angry even though he 308 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 14: had no contact with her. This is a guy who 309 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 14: just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He 310 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 14: was obsessed, and so you are wiping out the person. 311 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 14: In some instances, a killer will put a cover over 312 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 14: somebody's face, a pillow, something to hide them. They just 313 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 14: don't want to see, and they want to obliterate that person. 314 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 14: She was beautiful and that really disturbed him. Let me 315 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 14: get rid of who she is in all her beauty, 316 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 14: because she doesn't want me. 317 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 3: You know another thing, a Karen Stark. You know my mom. 318 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: Who's going to be ninety four in December and lives 319 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:21,479 Speaker 1: with us. The act of stabbing a little old lady 320 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: in her bed, either bedridden or asleep. That's a whole 321 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: other level of evil right there. Now. I know no 322 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: one's life is more valuable than another person's life. 323 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 3: I don't care if we're talking. 324 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: About a movie star, TV star like Matthew Perry, or 325 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about this eighty one year old ma. But 326 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: to attack a completely defenseless person, that's a whole another 327 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: can of worms. Psychologically, what is that? It's like she 328 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: didn't killing a mockingbird. 329 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 14: That's true, but we don't really know, Nancy, what was 330 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 14: going on inside of that person's head. 331 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 3: Karen Stark, excuse me one moment. 332 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: Did I just hear you say it matters what's going 333 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: on inside that person's head, the stabber, the killer, I 334 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: don't care what's going on in their head unless they're 335 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: legally insane, doesn't matter. You know how many years it 336 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: took me to figure that out? It was either five 337 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: or seven because I marked it. I would sit in 338 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: court looking over at the defendant, always a violent felon, 339 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: because everything else will get plat out, thinking. 340 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 3: Why why would they do this? 341 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: Finally, I think it was year five. I'm like, why 342 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: am I asking why? It doesn't matter what's going on 343 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: inside his head. I have a case to prove, and 344 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to prove it. 345 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 3: So are you? 346 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: As an eighty one year old bedridden woman in her bed, 347 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: stab multiple times, potentially in the face. And you want 348 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: me to figure out what's going on in the killer's mind? 349 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 3: Did you say that? 350 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 6: Now? 351 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 14: I said, we don't know what's going on. But what 352 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 14: I was trying to say, Nancy, is that whoever this 353 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 14: person was, they had tremendous just like codburger rage, rage 354 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 14: to do so many stab wounds, rage to do somebody's space. 355 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 14: If that actually happened, something was going on with they 356 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 14: really did not want to make that person be recognizable. 357 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 14: They were obsessed in. 358 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 3: This killer crime stories with Nancy Grace. 359 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 8: College professors now have a high tech tool to catch 360 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 8: students who plagiarize. A software called turn it in analyzes 361 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 8: as students for places it could have been copied from 362 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 8: other sources. It highlights the copied segments, and evening is 363 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 8: a professor a percentage of the paper that was not the. 364 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: Results of the student's work in the first place. From 365 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 3: our friends at Fox two. 366 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 2: With over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist, 367 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: Angie Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically, 368 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: she now finds herself at the center of a murder. 369 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: Case, joining US Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of The 370 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: Killer Jeans Melissa. Both women were transported to the hospital. 371 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: Describe their two injuries because they are diametrically opposed. Right. 372 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 7: Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds and when she was 373 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 7: transported she ended up dying at the hospital, was pronounced 374 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 7: about thirty minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some cuts 375 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 7: on her hands and she was treated as. 376 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 3: Well and release. If I am not mistake, she was 377 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 3: treated and released as right. 378 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: Very same day, very same day. Can I see Melissa McCarty, Please, 379 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: Melissa McCarty, are you telling me that the eighty one 380 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: year old mother was stabbed multiple times in the torso 381 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: and possibly the face and dies and the glamorous TV 382 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: anchor had some cuts on her hands. 383 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 3: Is that right? That's right, that's right. She was also 384 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 3: covered in. 385 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: Blood, covered in blood. Now I find it very curious 386 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: to Dave mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Very curious, indeed, 387 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: how did the morning TV news anchor survive the attack 388 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: with a few cuts on. 389 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 3: Her hands and her mother bedridden? 390 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: Is the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead? 391 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 3: How does that happen? 392 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: You? 393 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 6: Know and Nancy, that's the question that they're going to 394 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 6: have to answer very quickly, because she was able to 395 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 6: get out of the house and wave down help. Remember 396 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 6: Angie Mauck actually went out into the street, is waving 397 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 6: down people for help and get the cell phone from 398 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 6: somebody she doesn't even know, just gets it and runs 399 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 6: back into the house. So she's still got plenty of energy, 400 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 6: She's still able to get up and go and ask 401 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 6: for help. And yet her mother is there in the 402 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 6: bed having been massacred. So don't know what exactly transpired, 403 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 6: except she had plenty of energy to go out and 404 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 6: get help for herself. 405 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: Dave mac do you know what you just did to 406 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: me when you're talking about her mother? I felt like 407 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: I swallowed a lump of coal, like something stuck in 408 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: my throat. I just want to jump up and run 409 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: to get to my mom and check on her. 410 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 3: Okay, well you just brought up. 411 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: Something really interesting that I hadn't thought. Not just as 412 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: she survived in Maniacal Killer with a few cuts on 413 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,959 Speaker 1: her hands, but somehow was drenched in blood. 414 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 3: Isn't that right? 415 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: Melissa that said, yes, No, she's drenched in blood all 416 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: over the front of her right. 417 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 3: Correct, Dave Mac. Back to you. 418 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: So she's drenched in blood from what the cuts on 419 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: her hands, but you brought up that she's still an 420 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: excellent condition. No blow to the head, no gash, no 421 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: wound to her the back of her head. She is alert, 422 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: she's not screaming, get the guy, Get the guy. Somebody 423 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: broke in her house. There's which reminds me. Was there 424 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: any sign of forced entry, Dave Mac at all? 425 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 6: None, none whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy. 426 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 6: And like you said, she's got plenty of time and 427 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 6: energy to go around and go outside the house and 428 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 6: seek help. So she's able to have her thoughts. She's 429 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 6: not freaking out in that she cannot put a thought 430 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 6: together here. She's able to go outside and get help. 431 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 6: And you know, she didn't seem to be other than 432 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 6: the blood on her hands, doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever. 433 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 3: You know, that's also curious. She says, she's not freaked out. 434 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: But she did run out of the house to borrow 435 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: a stranger who was a neighbor, but they didn't really 436 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: know each other's phone, grabbed the neighbor's phone and then 437 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 1: ran back into the home with it. I wonder why 438 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: she didn't use a phone in the home or her 439 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: own cell phone. 440 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave. 441 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: If I found someone injured in our home, I would 442 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: not run out in the street to try to borrow 443 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: somebody's phone that may or may not be out there. 444 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: I would use the home phone if they have one, 445 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: or my cell phone. 446 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 3: That's odd, isn't it. Don't you find that odd? 447 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 6: I found it odd that she ran outside the house 448 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 6: because her mother is there in the bed, and as mentioned, 449 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 6: she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the 450 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 6: wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean, 451 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 6: come on, you probably got in that home. You've probably 452 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 6: still got a wall, a phone on the wall, not 453 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 6: to mention several cell phones from the adults that are 454 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 6: there in the home. But instead of any of that, 455 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 6: she goes outside, and all I'm thinking if we're maybe 456 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 6: she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I don't know, Nancy, 457 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 6: it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your mother. 458 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: In bed outside afraid of the killer still in the house. 459 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: I like that, Dave. He's got a future of fiction. 460 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 6: Listen the eighty one year old Anita Avers found unresponsive 461 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 6: in her bed with multiple stab wounds. Transported to the hospital, 462 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 6: as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached 463 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 6: police in the street when they arrived. Mock, a former 464 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 6: television news anchor reporter, is treated and released from the hospital. Well, 465 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 6: Happy Facebook Friday to everyone, and welcome Angima. 466 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 12: Thank you. 467 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 3: I am so excited to be here. And I look 468 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 3: for me and with you guys out there in Saint 469 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 3: Louis from Fox Too. 470 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: The former news anchor was living with her eighty year 471 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 2: old mother in their Wichita home on Halloween night, the 472 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 2: spotlight shifted dramatically on to Mock as events took a 473 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 2: dark turn. 474 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: A dark turn again, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. 475 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: A dark turn. It sounds like a mystery novel. This 476 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: is no mystery novel, and it's not a dark turn. 477 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: It's murder, and it's the murder of a defenseless eighty 478 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: one year old woman apparently bed ridden. You know, I 479 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: just heard something to Melissa McCarty, Is it true that 480 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: the glam Morning TV anchor was. 481 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 3: Living with her mother? What in her mother's home? Whose 482 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 3: home was that? 483 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 7: That's what it seems. So police have not gone on 484 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 7: the record to confirm it, but it seems as though 485 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 7: they were living together. 486 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: Hmm, guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did Angeline 487 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: mock end up unscathed? 488 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 3: She was treated? 489 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 5: What? 490 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 3: Jim Elliott? 491 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: They spread a little back teen honor went goodbye, goodbye? 492 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 3: What? And the mother's dead? Stab multiple times? You don't 493 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 3: found you don't have a problem with that because I do. 494 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 11: Well, So I think you know the difference is an 495 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 11: eighty or eighty when you're a woman versus someone twenty 496 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 11: or thirty years younger, the younger person could arguably be 497 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 11: more able to defend herself than what's her mother. 498 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I 499 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: see where you're going with that. Doctor Prea Banergy is 500 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: with us doctor Priya board certified forensic pathologists and anatomic 501 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: pathologists with Anchor Forensic Pathology consulting. Let's just say she's 502 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: seen a lot of dead bodies, Doctor Priya, what is 503 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: the difference between a defensive state wound and a stab wound? 504 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: You would get to your hands when you are the attacker, 505 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: for instance, your hand sliding down the knife unless you're 506 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: like Brian Coberger who had a k bar knife which 507 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: has a hilt. What is a hilt? It looks like 508 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: a cross. There is a section that turns the blade, 509 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: it bisects it and if you're the stabber, your hand would. 510 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 3: Stop at the hilt. 511 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: Okay, So if there is a knife that does not 512 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: have a hilt, how can you tell the difference between 513 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: a wound sustained to the hand if you are the 514 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: stabber versus a defensive wound. 515 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 3: Well, I think that could be challenging. You need to 516 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 3: look at where it is. 517 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: If you're putting your hands up this way on the back, 518 00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: that is obviously defensive. 519 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 3: Happen in any way? Have the knife ub. 520 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: Use the back of your hand to stab someone now, 521 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: but on the palms and it's really deep. 522 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 3: Maybe you did have a grabbing motion where the knife slip. 523 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 14: Remember, repeated stabs make the knife bloody, would make it slippery. 524 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: Earlier, you heard a veterman trial lawyer Jim Elliott describe 525 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:29,719 Speaker 1: why the morning TV news star could have escaped a 526 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: deranged killer unscathed because she's twenty to thirty years younger 527 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: than her eighty one year old mother. Typically the state 528 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: does not have to prove motive. But I'd be very 529 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: curious to find out who would want to kill an 530 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: eighty one year old little old lady asleep in bed, 531 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: the degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms, 532 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: being very very physically active. Yes, I could see that 533 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: as it is. Cause let's take a look at Angeline mock. 534 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 8: Well, Ferrell's biggest fan, Angie mock Hey, big fan, right, 535 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 8: oh huge Lambert Airport, Better get ready for me. 536 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 3: You're going to be there, right, Yeah, I'm anger. 537 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 6: Angie mock is a former TV anchor who spent several 538 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 6: years waking up the Saint Louis area anchoring the morning 539 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 6: news on Fox two. He's spend years as a reporter 540 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 6: and anchor working for Fox twenty five Oklahoma City, KLK 541 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 6: in Nebraska, now NBC Montana and others. 542 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 8: I love highlighting so many cool and it's interesting things 543 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 8: that come to the Saint Louis area. 544 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 3: How do we go about training like the professional last 545 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 3: curve ball? 546 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 6: Let's straight it out. 547 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: Scary. That's aroun our friends at Fox two News, and 548 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,239 Speaker 1: we showed you that to explain that. Jim Elliott is 549 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: absolutely correct. She's in great physical shape. So is that 550 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: how she escapes the deranged killer and her mother does not? 551 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: To Melissa McCarty joining us from Killer Jeans, was there 552 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: a forced entry? Did first responders see anyone leaving the home? 553 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: Or did the neighbor who lent her cell phone to 554 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: mak did she see anyone leaving the home or a 555 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: car speeding away anything like that. 556 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 7: There was no forced entry, and according to police, there 557 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 7: were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her 558 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 7: mom on responsive inside the home. 559 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 3: That's it. Did she make a statement at all? 560 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: To Dave Mack, joining US investigative reporter Crime Stories, what 561 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: if anything did Angie Mock have to say? 562 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 6: Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of, 563 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 6: and only getting secondhand information about what may or may 564 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 6: not have been said to the nine to one one dispatcher. 565 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What 566 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: did she say? 567 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 6: She said that she did it in self defense, that 568 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 6: she was trying to save her own life, intimating that 569 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 6: it was a fight with her mother and she had 570 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 6: to use the knife to protect yourself. 571 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: Angelaine Mock, the morning TV news anchor, actually says she 572 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: stabbed her mother in self defense. I believe your eloquent 573 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: words were she did it in self defense? What it 574 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: was a killer be kill situation? 575 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 3: Is that where you're. 576 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 6: Saying, Dave Mac, that is exactly what I am saying 577 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 6: that she claims. 578 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: Oh my stars, what a difference a night can make. 579 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: Check out Angie Mock in that photo. 580 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 3: Ouch, there's a side by side. I don't want to 581 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 3: be part of that. 582 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: Okay, Hold on, Jim Elliott, you're the veteran child lawyer. 583 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: I guess this is one of the reasons you tell 584 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: your clients shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to 585 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: believe that Angelin Mack was defending herself against her bedridden 586 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: mother and a killer be killed situation? 587 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 3: I mean, how do you even look at a judge. 588 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 11: She's going to have to explain that, And I mean, 589 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 11: I guess they'll come up with some concept of who 590 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 11: knows physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something 591 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 11: of that sort that she may attribute it to. 592 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, Jim Elliott, Now again, you're just 593 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: spinning it out. Put it in that, please, Jim Elliott. 594 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm you have children. I assume you read them the 595 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: story of Rumpel Stealskin. 596 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 12: Yes, of course. Yes. 597 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 3: Okay, so you know where I'm going with this. 598 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: Rumpel stealskin took Hay and he just spun it out 599 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: into gold. And that's what you're doing right now, now, 600 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: do you, Jim Elliott? And again, you're a veteran trial 601 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: war lawyer. Your record shows you want a lot of cases. 602 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: You represent multiple state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow 603 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: coming up with the theory that this anchor can I 604 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 1: see her please, That the TV anchor who can add lib, 605 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 1: who can rescript, who can do all sorts stuff on air, 606 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: antics that she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental, 607 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: or emotional abuse. Did you just throw that out as 608 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 1: a possibility, Jim Elliott. 609 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 12: It's a possibility, certainly. And we don't know exactly. I mean, 610 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 12: all she said was to save myself. We don't know 611 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 12: what that means. 612 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 11: We don't know what that means physically, whether there are 613 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 11: other issues that play in their relationship or in her 614 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 11: life or our mother's life. And I think that has 615 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 11: to be fully explored before we can understand. 616 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 3: But she's going to have to explain my stars. I 617 00:35:50,080 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 3: need a shrink crime store with Nancy Grace. 618 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: I need a shrink, Karen Stark, I'll forego the drink. 619 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 3: And I'll stick with a shrink. 620 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to hear about any of 621 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: your specific clients, but how many times do your clients 622 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: blame mommy? 623 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 3: You know, I've started a fund for my daughter and 624 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 3: son for. 625 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: A shrink someday because I'm sure they're gonna blame everything 626 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: on me. Yes, mommy told me I was fill in 627 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: the blank. My mommy made me feel in that blank. 628 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: It's all mommy's fault. 629 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 3: Did you hear Elliott? The woman is bedridden. She's eighty 630 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 3: one years old. 631 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: I don't care what she told you when you were 632 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: five years old to stand up straight. 633 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 3: And eat your vegetables. What did you hear that? Because 634 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 3: that's where this is going. 635 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 14: It doesn't make any sense, it really if you think 636 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 14: about it. Yes, mothers, fathers, they really affect their children 637 00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 14: growing up. 638 00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 3: And that's a fact. 639 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 14: Whatever is going on that we're talking now about an 640 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 14: adult and a mother who is eighty eighty one, there 641 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,959 Speaker 14: was no reason for that to still be held over 642 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 14: and something that's in her psyche. At this point, she's 643 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 14: gone on with her life and she should be doing 644 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 14: really well and not be blaming anybody, Karen, because she's independent. 645 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind. We 646 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: don't even know if there is anything that the now 647 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: dead mom did the eighty one year old. For all 648 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: I know, she was an incredible mom. We're just you 649 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: are actually buying into Jim Elliott's theory that maybe maybe 650 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: this woman was emotionally abused by her mom for years 651 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: and years and years, so she just had a stab 652 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: or dad. 653 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,240 Speaker 12: Well, that's the whole point. 654 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 14: It doesn't matter what their relationship was like. It really does, 655 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 14: announcing because at this stage in her life, she's a 656 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 14: functioning we assume adult, and she should not be carrying 657 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 14: any kind of feelings about her mother. 658 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 3: That's interfering. 659 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 14: What would make her Who would do that stab their 660 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 14: own mother? 661 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 3: That hardly ever happens. 662 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 2: Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residence. Angeline 663 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 2: was found outside, claiming she acted in self defense after 664 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 2: stabbing her mother. Inside, officers discovered her mother in bed 665 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 2: suffering from. 666 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 3: Multiple stab womers. 667 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: Hmm, Okay, this is a tactic that will likely be 668 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: used by the state if this case goes forward. All 669 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: of the clips that we're showing you every word Angie 670 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: Mock has uttered on air will be combed through and 671 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: used if possible in court to show that she was 672 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: in her right mind. I mean, well, this is why 673 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: there's got to be a mental defect defense, because she 674 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: blurted it out at the Get and Go. 675 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 5: Listen, I've heard stabbed the who raised about five to 676 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 5: six knives and that's apparently with her mom. 677 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 12: She's also from the home. 678 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're 679 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 3: leaving the day. I don't know where my tissues are. 680 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 3: That's all right. 681 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: Family's in town, they're leaving today. That was from my 682 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: friends at K A K E and Fox Too. I 683 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: want to hear that one more time, what she said 684 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: on the scene or to the nine one one dispatch, 685 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: and then. 686 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 3: Her crying about her family leaving after the holiday. Let's 687 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 3: watch that one more time. 688 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 12: Who probably raised about five to six knives and that's. 689 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 6: Apparently with her mom. 690 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 12: She's also from the home. 691 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're 692 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 3: leaving the day. I don't know where my tissues are, 693 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 3: that's all right. 694 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't have those fancy soft fly tissues behind bars. 695 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 3: Miss Mark that's from K A K. E and Fox 696 00:39:59,160 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 3: to Okay. 697 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: Dan Murphy, former NYPD detective sergeant, and so much more, 698 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: author of workplace safety co host Girl Shields podcast. 699 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 3: It goes on and on and on thoughts. 700 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 9: There's so many thoughts about this. When she came out 701 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 9: of her house and said what she said, allegedly, she's 702 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 9: putting herself as the person responsible for it. The reasons 703 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,879 Speaker 9: for it can get figured out later when you look 704 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 9: at the situation. She's living with her mother for whatever reason, 705 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 9: maybe as a caretaker, maybe a financial. 706 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: Need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in. Go ahead, sorry, 707 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: that's why our friends at Fox to everybody, I'm sorry, Dan, 708 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: go ahead. 709 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 9: Looks is the life has held her a very bad 710 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 9: set of hand, bad hand, so to speak, set of cards. 711 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 9: She does not look like the same person. Something is 712 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 9: on a downslide, and maybe she blames the mother for 713 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 9: things in her life, sees the mother as holding her 714 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 9: back in many reasons. I would love to know the story, 715 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 9: the true dynamic in the relationship, why she's living there, 716 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 9: what caused in any other domestic calls there, What would 717 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 9: lead her to this. Maybe it's narcissism, Maybe. 718 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: She's I'm sorry, but are you Are you a mental 719 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: health professional because I thought you were a former NYPD 720 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: to take a sergeant I. 721 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 9: Am, which is equivalent to a master's in psychology in 722 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 9: many ways. 723 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: Dan, Okay, you and I both know that motive is 724 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: not required. 725 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 3: I don't care. I mean, my non prosecutor side does care. 726 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: But I'm talking about the facts that we're going to 727 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 1: put in front of a jury. 728 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 3: I am asking you. 729 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: You're the former NYPD, and I keep saying that because 730 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: you have more cases than practically any other jurisdiction in 731 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: the country that you have handled. Personally analyze the facts. 732 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: We'll deal with her mental defect defense that she's you know, 733 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 1: really painting herself in a corner with because she came 734 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: out with self defense, so she's. 735 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 3: Stick with it. That's not going away. 736 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: She admitted she did it in self defense. Of course 737 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: I don't believe that, and I want to hear what 738 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: you think about the facts, not your amateur opinion, as 739 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: mine would be too. 740 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 3: I'm not a shrink about why she did it. 741 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: Why does somebody stab a bed ridden eighty one year 742 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:28,760 Speaker 1: old woman. 743 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 9: Don't care the bare facts scene cops get to the scene, 744 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 9: she lives in the home with the mother, and she 745 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 9: is covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who 746 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 9: has either embraced a dead body covered in blood or 747 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 9: somebody who himself was responsible for it. And the blood 748 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 9: comes out arterial spurts and things like that. Second, she's 749 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 9: got defensive wounds potentially or potentially from a handslide, and 750 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,879 Speaker 9: got a knife that's being in a frenzied attack, being 751 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 9: used to attack somebody. She makes a statement indicating she 752 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 9: did it. There's no evidence of entry by anyone else 753 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 9: into the residence. She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility. 754 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 9: The mother is bedridden and possible couldn't possibly have posed 755 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 9: a threat with a knife to her daughter Fairfax. No 756 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 9: other suspect. 757 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 3: Here's a look at our top stories. 758 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 8: Several victims survive a hail of bullets and two separate shootings, 759 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 8: but those shootings were at the exact same location. 760 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 6: A glamorous TV news anchor Mock stands charged with first 761 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 6: degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her eighty one 762 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 6: year old mother, Anita Avers. Mock is being held in 763 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 6: the Sedgwick County Jail on a one million dollar bail from. 764 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: Fox Too at this hour. As of tonight when we 765 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: go to air, this case is still being built by 766 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: l E law enforcement. If you know or think you 767 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: know anything about the death of this eighty one year 768 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,240 Speaker 1: old mom, please dial which CHAWPD three one six two 769 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,759 Speaker 1: six eight four one one PETE three one six two 770 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:08,760 Speaker 1: six eight four one one. And remember evil comes in 771 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: many forms. Do you think the devil always shows up 772 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: at a tux No, don't be fooled by a killer's appearance, 773 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: even if she's a glamorous morning TV anchor, doesn't matter. 774 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 1: Try to keep your mind on the victim, maybe like 775 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: your own mother eighty one, bedridden, stabbed multiple times. Keep 776 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: that thought in your head. We remember an American hero, 777 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: Detective Corporal Christopher Mock Saint Lucy County Sheriff's killed in 778 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: the light of duty after twenty one years on the force, 779 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: leaving behind a wife turned widow, Jennifer, and two grieving children. 780 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: American hero Detective Corporal Christopher Mock. 781 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 3: Nancy Gray, signing off near by, said