1
00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:10,040
Speaker 1: Afro Tech sen San Francisco, California. Michael Sybel, who is

2
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: today managing director of y Combinator, the renowned startup Accelerated,

3
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,279
Speaker 1: is on the main stage doing Q and A with

4
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 1: the audience about startups, investing strategy and getting accepted into

5
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 1: what I see. He's asked the question from someone in

6
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 1: the audience about how he might advise a person interested

7
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 1: in entrepreneurship about what sort of business is best for

8
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 1: them to pursue. Now, this clip was especially important for

9
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,159
Speaker 1: me to play on this episode because we talked so

10
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 1: much about unicorns versus lifestyle businesses in tech, and in

11
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,960
Speaker 1: my view, it erroneously discourage our peers from building companies

12
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,480
Speaker 1: that may not be suitable for bench of funding. Let's

13
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,560
Speaker 1: listen in I'm not here to tell you what kind

14
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,480
Speaker 1: of business to build at all, and anyone who's trying

15
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: to give you advice and how you're gonna spend the

16
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 1: next seven or ten years of your life shouldn't be

17
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 1: telling you what to build, or how to build it,

18
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,679
Speaker 1: or why you want to build it. Um that's on you.

19
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 1: So I think I have friends who have made lifestyle

20
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 1: businesses that allow them to work ten hours a month

21
00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: and make fifty a month. They leave great lives. If

22
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:23,280
Speaker 1: you want to do that, I'll support you. Um. I've

23
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,600
Speaker 1: got friends who've tried to make the billion dollars start

24
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,920
Speaker 1: up three, four or five times and failed each time.

25
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,760
Speaker 1: I support them to UM. Where y C operates is

26
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,679
Speaker 1: in this kind of narrow, very narrow group of companies.

27
00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,120
Speaker 1: It's tech companies that want to be super high growth.

28
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,959
Speaker 1: So the advice I'll give you is about that. If

29
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,800
Speaker 1: you want to do that, I can give you some

30
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 1: guidance on what the community is looking for and how

31
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,320
Speaker 1: you can go about try and do that successfully. Um.

32
00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 1: But I have like absolutely no opinion on whether that's

33
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,920
Speaker 1: the thing you should be doing. Um. Everyone's got to

34
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: choose that for themselves. So UM yeah, I got nothing

35
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: bad to say about people talking about other paths at all.

36
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm little Lucas, Mrs Black Tech, Dream Money. I'm gonna

37
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 1: answer you this to some of the biggest names, some

38
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,000
Speaker 1: of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas. Feel Black and

39
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 1: building are simply using tech to secure your bag. This

40
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:30,679
Speaker 1: podcast is for you kids. An investor, founder, and entrepreneur

41
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,919
Speaker 1: who serves as partner at courts I VC, which focuses

42
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,520
Speaker 1: on sports, gaming, and fitness verticals. I asked about the

43
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 1: differences between sports of yesteryear and the sports of today,

44
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 1: and why the sports is today is right for innovation

45
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,639
Speaker 1: in ways it's never been before, and how that opportunity

46
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 1: creates elane for people like me and you to capitalize.

47
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,919
Speaker 1: Sports used to be a game and nownced culture. When

48
00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 1: you look at you know what's going on with CAP,

49
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 1: what you see in the English Premier League UM where

50
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 1: players have taken a knee before every game. UM. When

51
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 1: you think about the power of sports in society, it's

52
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,240
Speaker 1: one of the things that can bring us together. It's

53
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 1: one of the things that divides us. Sports and sports figures, athletes.

54
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,800
Speaker 1: You see it today in social media, their influences outside

55
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 1: and you know the shut up and dribble, you know

56
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: conversation that had that happened. You know, we're talking about

57
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: individuals who are transforming society at a faster pace, I

58
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 1: would argue than politicians are because they're at the forefront

59
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 1: of the discussion every day. And so when we think

60
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,440
Speaker 1: about sports and investing in sports, a lot of people

61
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,200
Speaker 1: put us in a bubble of sports, technology and fitness

62
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 1: and what goes on. But I think you cannot invest

63
00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 1: in sports and be blind to the fact that we

64
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: are talking about cultural movements that are happening within this space. UM.

65
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 1: And that's been true for years, right, UM, ever since

66
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 1: the raised fist that the Berlin Olympics when Hitler refused

67
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,800
Speaker 1: to shake hands like these literally on a podium, right.

68
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,240
Speaker 1: You know, this is this is where we are as

69
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 1: a society. And with the amplification of the voices through

70
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,880
Speaker 1: social media, UM, you know, you're seeing sports really playing

71
00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 1: a huge part of culture, not only in the US globe.

72
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 1: You know, I remember talking to um Delaye Partnell, who

73
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 1: you know, one of the biggest um E sports gaming

74
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 1: companies around. Right now, you're growing really fastest from play

75
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: Versus and I remember him saying that historically for a

76
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,680
Speaker 1: kid to get a varsity letter, they had to be fit,

77
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 1: they had to run fast, they had to hit hird

78
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: And now you can be a great gamer and when

79
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,120
Speaker 1: a state trophy because of companies like play versus UM

80
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,080
Speaker 1: And I maybe it was Mark Injreaeson who said is

81
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 1: next thing, but he says something about like how when

82
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:08,359
Speaker 1: the user interfaces become very mature, that's when they get massive.

83
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,120
Speaker 1: That's when technology gets mass adoption. When you know, when

84
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,600
Speaker 1: user interfaces are difficult, people don't grasp onto it. But

85
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,480
Speaker 1: when the user interfaces fluent, um, more people can use

86
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 1: it because it's easier to use. I'm still not sure,

87
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,839
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm wrong. I'm still not sure we've seen

88
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: mass adoption with regards to gaming yet as an industry.

89
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 1: And I could be wrong. Um, but what would And

90
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,000
Speaker 1: here's the position I come from is what will it

91
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,839
Speaker 1: take to get more parents to see past the idea

92
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,400
Speaker 1: that little Billy isn't just playing games, but he is

93
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:46,720
Speaker 1: playing games. But there's a larger opportunity there. Yeah. Yeah,

94
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,479
Speaker 1: I think the most powerful thing that Mark Andrew's never

95
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 1: said in my perspective, and software is eating the world right.

96
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 1: And I think today I would argue that gamings eating

97
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,160
Speaker 1: the world. Right. He just took the board seated. Actually Infinity, Um.

98
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 1: Actually Infinity is a game where you can play to

99
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 1: earn real money in the game. Um, they're creating a

100
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,679
Speaker 1: massive economy. This economy will be larger than some countries.

101
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 1: Some people are putting their jobs just to play this

102
00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,920
Speaker 1: game all day, right, And so I think the way

103
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: that we view gaming is transformative in terms of and

104
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,960
Speaker 1: I wrote a long blog post about this. But the

105
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 1: next big social network, the next big Facebook that we

106
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 1: think of today and TikTok is going to be in

107
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,200
Speaker 1: a game. I want to argue that that's already happening,

108
00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: right fortnite. Kids growing up today are their first social

109
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 1: experiences in roadblocks, right, That's how they're meeting people. This

110
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,840
Speaker 1: is their social networks. Tweet it was roadblocks is their

111
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 1: LinkedIn That's that's where you go, right. And so when

112
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 1: I think about generational change, right, so I'm forty two,

113
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 1: when I you know, my parents idea of playing games

114
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,480
Speaker 1: was going to an arcade, It's like, this is what

115
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 1: you do on a Friday night at nine o'clock and

116
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: somebody when you play arcade game and you know, the

117
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,919
Speaker 1: Chucky Cheese era right coming up? Like this is a

118
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 1: family entertainment experience. You go to do it? If you

119
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: just look at the our generation. I was part of

120
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:23,560
Speaker 1: the console generation, right, so super Nintendo and yes, you know,

121
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 1: and then you got the port you know, your game boys? Right, um,

122
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 1: and today I'd argue that everybody is carrying a console

123
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:36,080
Speaker 1: in their pocket. Right. In mobile gaming now globally seventy

124
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,239
Speaker 1: billion dollar a year industry. Right, Gaming is a hundred

125
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 1: and sixty billion dollar a year industry annually. So you

126
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:49,679
Speaker 1: can take the box office, music sales in television without

127
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: the streaming services and it doesn't add up to that

128
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: that total tam And the misconception is that you know,

129
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 1: you can ask somebody, you know, particularly you ask a

130
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 1: middle aged man or woman are you a gamer? They

131
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 1: say no, Well, do you play games on your phone? Yes?

132
00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 1: What do you play? I play golf Clash, I play

133
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: words with friends. I only play a little bit, you know,

134
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: during lunch and then after where I'm going to commute home.

135
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you played thirty minutes of games a day,

136
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,840
Speaker 1: but you don't consider yourself a gamer? Right, So you know,

137
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 1: you're seeing the acceptance of my generation that grew up

138
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 1: with consoles now saying well, gaming is not actually bad,

139
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 1: Like it didn't lead to the detrimental things that people

140
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 1: thought it would write, you know, the early days of

141
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,920
Speaker 1: g t A, the early days of first person shooters.

142
00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,600
Speaker 1: It's it's just not. The stigma associated with it is

143
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,719
Speaker 1: still there. But the industry is massive, and I think

144
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 1: that we've seen a generational change of people who grew

145
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 1: up playing games in a home and now we're starting

146
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,200
Speaker 1: to see people play games anywhere, right, and that's why

147
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 1: you see the growth and mobile. Mobile will surpass the

148
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 1: total revenue generated in gaming then console and PC combined

149
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,480
Speaker 1: next year. Um. And that you know, we have an

150
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,600
Speaker 1: investment in India, very little console penetration. Everybody's playing mobile games.

151
00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 1: India's by far the world's largest gaming market, with the

152
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,080
Speaker 1: exception of China, and if you look at the numbers

153
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,560
Speaker 1: in the sheer amount and it will surpass China given

154
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 1: the recent regulatory changes that have gone in limiting the

155
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 1: amount of time kids can play games. So you know,

156
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 1: I think we're in a moment in time where we

157
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 1: talk about the metaverse, we talk about the Pokemon goes,

158
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 1: you talk about roadblocks, you talk about Fortnite, that this

159
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,559
Speaker 1: is the way people are going to socialize. And this

160
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,200
Speaker 1: is a game we were a digital native generation. This

161
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 1: is a game native generation. Interesting, So particular to let

162
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,319
Speaker 1: the things that you talked about with the roadblocks and Fortnite,

163
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, I have little kids and for them, you know,

164
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 1: they think nothing about spending real dollars to have dollars

165
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,120
Speaker 1: in the game, right, And I wonder what your perspective

166
00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,080
Speaker 1: is on how they will grow up being let's say

167
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 1: sub twelve, sub twelve years old. And I don't know

168
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:04,960
Speaker 1: if you have kids or not, but like you you

169
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 1: study this, So how how will they grow up in

170
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:13,880
Speaker 1: a world how were they're they're thinking be structured around value?

171
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,559
Speaker 1: So is me having a whole twelve football ten ft

172
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: high full of sneakers and boxes of you know, old Jordan's.

173
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,520
Speaker 1: They will have a virtual world of you know, digital

174
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,800
Speaker 1: chatch keys, like you know gems that they got in

175
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 1: two thousand twenty. You know, it's like, how how will

176
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,800
Speaker 1: they think about these things? Yeah, it's a great question.

177
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 1: And so we're investors in stock ax out of fun one. Right.

178
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,439
Speaker 1: And if you're a sneaker head, you've got kicks, you've

179
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 1: been on Goat, you've been on stock X. You don't

180
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,640
Speaker 1: see your sneakers as a utility, right, you see them

181
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 1: as a luxury? Right? Um? And what we saw in

182
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 1: this last ten years of innovation internet space, particularly around

183
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,240
Speaker 1: a gig economy, in ownership, like the fact that you

184
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: would say, yeah, I'm just gonna put my crib on Airbnb,

185
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 1: Like people were crazy when the airbnb came out. People

186
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 1: are like are you insane? You're gonna stay at strangers,

187
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 1: You're gonna let somebody stay in your crib? Like, Nah,

188
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,839
Speaker 1: that's not possible, that's not gonna happen, right, And now

189
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,280
Speaker 1: it's like I'd rather stare at an airbnbing in a hotel, right,

190
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,200
Speaker 1: And so the idea of ownership is changing rapidly in

191
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 1: our society. And again I go back, it's generational change.

192
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 1: What was cool for my parents generation was a Ford Mustang,

193
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 1: a muscle car, like that was who you were and

194
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,760
Speaker 1: that representative piece of your identity. This generation grew up

195
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 1: and was like, who cares about a car? I can

196
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 1: take a Uber anywhere. It's gonna cost me less. I

197
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,000
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about maintenance and parking and alternate side.

198
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,400
Speaker 1: I'll just take Ubers everywhere and it's gonna cost me

199
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 1: less on a monthly basis. So this leads us to

200
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 1: a game native generation. So Fortnite generates two point one

201
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 1: two point three billion dollars a year selling skins. That's it,

202
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,680
Speaker 1: that's their business model. Why because if you buy an

203
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,679
Speaker 1: NFL jersey or you buy a Marvel character jersey to

204
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,840
Speaker 1: skin your character in the game, that's the representation to

205
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 1: your peer group, no different than owning that Mustang or

206
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 1: having a pair of yeass or having a skin in fortnet.

207
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,160
Speaker 1: So when people talk about, oh, I'm believe in n

208
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 1: f T s, this stuff is fleeting, I'm like, you're

209
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 1: not in touch with reality. You don't understand how you

210
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: view digital assets. You might have dop artwork on your wall.

211
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 1: Well guess what I got an n f T in

212
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,120
Speaker 1: my virtual world. It's no different. It's the exact same thing.

213
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,960
Speaker 1: It represents who you are, it's part of your identity.

214
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,679
Speaker 1: And so you know, we're very bullish on the n

215
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: f T space, and I think even more so. Digital

216
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,200
Speaker 1: has this unique opportunity that we're going to see emerge

217
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,439
Speaker 1: and fractional owners. So in the same way we had

218
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,560
Speaker 1: to give economy the same way you treated an asset

219
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 1: and you're willing to sell it or lease it, digital

220
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 1: opens up completely new opportunities. And so when you talk

221
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,319
Speaker 1: about n f T s, oh, I created an original

222
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,400
Speaker 1: piece of art as an artist, I'm not going to

223
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 1: say I did, and I sell that and now it

224
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,840
Speaker 1: gets resold for ten X because there's a smart contracts

225
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 1: associated with it. I get a portion of that used

226
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 1: that that secondary transaction or the third flip of that

227
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,080
Speaker 1: item as it goes up over time, so it unlocks

228
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 1: additional value the same way stock x unlocks value, which

229
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 1: is you can buy a pair of kicks, hold them,

230
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,439
Speaker 1: flip them, and you're gonna get the proceeds. Now, the artist,

231
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 1: the creator, whoever it is, can actually you know, accrue

232
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,920
Speaker 1: that value, and I think that's gonna be something lasting

233
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 1: in the ecosystem that really changes the way, you know,

234
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 1: art and assets are monetized over time, and so we're

235
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 1: very bullish on you know, digital art. You know what

236
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 1: n f T s mean, digital ownership over time, because again,

237
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 1: it is just an item you own that represents your identity.

238
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,960
Speaker 1: Just because it's in the virtual world, it doesn't mean

239
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,680
Speaker 1: it's any less or more so than the artwork or

240
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,800
Speaker 1: the kicks that you wear. When you you specifically are

241
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,719
Speaker 1: looking to invest in gaming, is it game developers you're

242
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,680
Speaker 1: particularly looking for, as it e Sports platforms? Is it

243
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: leads that you're interested in, like what's interesting to you

244
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 1: that's happening in the space. Yeah, we have a very

245
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: diversified approach to gaming because I think you know, people

246
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 1: tend to lump gaming into here's the studio creating a game, right,

247
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 1: and we do that. We we we certainly invested in um,

248
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: you know a handful of studios. Um. We love the

249
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 1: idea that you know. To me, gaming is not that

250
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: different than somebody who's creating an album or a movie. Right,

251
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 1: You're creating a new piece of work. You're putting your

252
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: heart and soul in it, and you hope somebody loves it,

253
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: right And and it's a creative endeavor. And so you know,

254
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 1: from our perspective, that's most of the money in the

255
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 1: ecosystem flows today. So we'll continue to make investments in

256
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: that space. UM. We tend to put the second bucket

257
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: as what are we investing in terms of social and community.

258
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 1: The sports is part of that. Right. When you look

259
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 1: at one of our early investments, we were early investors

260
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 1: in hundred Thieves. Um, they're in the sports team, but

261
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 1: they're really a lifestyle brand, right you You you see

262
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,280
Speaker 1: they're making money not only from competing, but they're making

263
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 1: money from march right from content. Um, it's an entertainment

264
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: in a brand business. Um. And so you know, we'll

265
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 1: invest in the sports. We invest in a lot of

266
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 1: real money gaming. So you know, there's a lot of

267
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: regulatory change going on in the ecosystem across the US

268
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,400
Speaker 1: to allow legalized gambling. Um. You know, we play it that.

269
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 1: It's the intersection of sports and gaming, right, It's what

270
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 1: keeps people engaged in the game. Where you might be

271
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 1: watching a three and a half hour game, there's actually

272
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 1: thirty minutes of action. What are you doing during that time?

273
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 1: So we think you know, um, prop bets and and

274
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: you know in game wagering in real time social around

275
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,880
Speaker 1: sports is a fascinating area. Um. And then we invest

276
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 1: in infrastructure, So what are the core teching tools needed

277
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 1: in a new generation of gaming? You know, gaming gets

278
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 1: big and you see outsized returns on investments at the

279
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 1: intersection of a new form of distribution and a new

280
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: form of monetization. See, you're going from a sixty dollar

281
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 1: console game going to free to play Facebook games. We're

282
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,920
Speaker 1: making micro transactions to mobile distribution within app purchases. And

283
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 1: now that we're in a cloud computing era and we're

284
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 1: moving into this you know monetization framework of play to

285
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,360
Speaker 1: earn in crypto as part of the currency of the games.

286
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 1: This is the moment in time where you'll see really

287
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,680
Speaker 1: outsized returns for investments in gaming, and so we're looking

288
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 1: at all aspects of the game ecosystem UM, and we

289
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: look for, you know, founders with unique insights into why

290
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,560
Speaker 1: the i P they're creating at this moment in time

291
00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 1: can leverage the cloud mobile global distribution with new fundamental

292
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,359
Speaker 1: economics that not only are allowing users to spend money

293
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,440
Speaker 1: in the game, but earn money in those games as well.

294
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of the broad strokes of how

295
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,959
Speaker 1: we look at investing in the gaming ecosystem. Now, I

296
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,400
Speaker 1: was reading an article and you said before that you

297
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,679
Speaker 1: want to meet a founder who can see a trend

298
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,720
Speaker 1: and has the knowledge, network and ability to execute on

299
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: their vision. UM. Can you talk to me about an

300
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 1: investment that you made, UM, whether it was in gaming, sports,

301
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,600
Speaker 1: or fitness where the operator had you know, a unique

302
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 1: vision about what the future looked like that caused you

303
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 1: to want to invest in You ultimately probably did invest. Yeah.

304
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: So it's a really good UM company here in New York.

305
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: They're based in Brooklyn. It's called players Lounge UM. Austin

306
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,439
Speaker 1: Um is a phenomenal founder. You know, he created a

307
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 1: gaming platform that allows you to connect with somebody else

308
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 1: in the network and play them in a console game

309
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,639
Speaker 1: or a PC game. Um, so I can challenge you

310
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 1: to a game of Madden, I can challenge you to

311
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,719
Speaker 1: a game of FIFA two K Fortnite. I'll put up

312
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: ten bucks. Who put up ten bucks? You know, the

313
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 1: winner takes eighteen the house takes their ten percent cut

314
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:19,679
Speaker 1: on that transaction. You know that. You know, four or

315
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 1: five years ago, people would be like, that's crazy. I'm

316
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,520
Speaker 1: gonna you know what we did in the door room

317
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 1: in college, Like we sat down and we had consoles

318
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'll play you like loser Bys and

319
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: forty Like this is where right and now you can

320
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,199
Speaker 1: do it. And I always say when people ask me

321
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 1: about players Lounge, I'm like, Austin was a hustler. Like

322
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: he was going and setting up game nights in bars

323
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 1: and Brooklyn. He's like, oh, you got a trivia night

324
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: on night, Like I cannot bring in a group of

325
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 1: FIFA meet up group and connect the consoles and have

326
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 1: them come in and play. I'll guarantee you have foot

327
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: traffic on a night that would be like for you normally,

328
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 1: and they're gonna drink and spend money. I'm gonna get

329
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 1: this and then he's like, why am I doing this

330
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 1: in person? I can do this online and created a

331
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,160
Speaker 1: platform behind that. But it was the vision of taking

332
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: some things saying like people like playing games for real money, right,

333
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: Like Vegas exists for a reason. Um, you know the

334
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,679
Speaker 1: Latta in the US nillion dollar a year. People like

335
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: to play games for money. It's a natural part of

336
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,400
Speaker 1: what we do. And you see that with the regulatory

337
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 1: environer shifting. You know, uh, New Jersey just hit a

338
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 1: billion dollars in wagers one state billion dollars in wagers

339
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 1: in one month. Right, so you talk about the amount

340
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,199
Speaker 1: of value that's going in and he was like, I'm

341
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,639
Speaker 1: gonna take it and apply to console games, right for

342
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: hardcore cats who really like playing. And I consider that

343
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 1: the new Poker Knight used to get together with people

344
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: play poker, you hanging out with your friends. Now you're

345
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: just connecting online and you're playing games that you you

346
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,719
Speaker 1: normally would and so for for real money. And so

347
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: that's the type of founder you know that at a

348
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,479
Speaker 1: unique insight that was like, oh man, I got this.

349
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 1: How do we scale it? How do we execute? Phenomenal

350
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:56,360
Speaker 1: investors on the cap table venture funds, athletes, celebrities you know,

351
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: coming in to co invest alongside. And I think those

352
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 1: are the types of essements where it's almost brain dead

353
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: simple and obvious, with like why isn't this happening? But

354
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: somebody can see a broader transformation in the market that

355
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: allows them to scale us to you know, tens of

356
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 1: millions of dollars a reb. You know, we often talk

357
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 1: about founders finding market opportunity to solve problems. Um, I

358
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think about creating gaming as like solve a

359
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: problem solved. Maybe you do, and I'd love to hear

360
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, um, like, are there yet still

361
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 1: a lot of problems to be solved in this? If

362
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: there are problems? Or is this is this entertainment? How

363
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: do you position this? Yeah? Yeah, I mean we just

364
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: made an investment in a tools business, um that can

365
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: take a two D image and create a three D

366
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 1: asset that can be used in a game or in

367
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 1: the metapath. And so if you look at gaming, you

368
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: have a two D artist sketching something out. Three D

369
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: artists you have an animator, right the process for creating

370
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 1: really high quality art. I mean, if you play games nowadays,

371
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 1: you see how real right the players are. Um, you know,

372
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: there are tons of infrastructure and technology business. I mean

373
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 1: we're talking about Microsoft's cloud business in gaming being a

374
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 1: ten billion dollar a year business. You know. The lift

375
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 1: on the back end infrastructure to power that is an

376
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: incredible right. Most people think about epic games for Fortnite, right,

377
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 1: the Unreal engine powers most of the console games in

378
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 1: the world. Right, So they have an incredibly powerful engine,

379
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: and you know, I think that's part of the value.

380
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 1: Look at Unity, publicly traded games company. It's a game

381
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 1: engine for mobile um. And so when I think about

382
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, problems in the uh the ecosystem around gaming.

383
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: You know, having worked in studios and launched studios before,

384
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 1: you have to really understand what it takes to create

385
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 1: I P what it takes to deploy that launch games

386
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: as a service, right, all the ugly stuff. You don't

387
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 1: think about leaderboards and player matching, and you know nonplayer

388
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 1: characters having really sophisticated are you know AI behind them

389
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: so you can interact with them in the game. There's

390
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: a lot of core tech that goes on there, and

391
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: so we try to pick off the pieces of the

392
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: industry and say, okay, where are there's where is there

393
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: a huge amount of dollars being spent? What are the

394
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: biggest technological challenges and who are the right teams to

395
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: solve those? Oftentimes they come out of studios, or they

396
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: come out of environments like a Riot Games, or they

397
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: come out of Amazon. That's seen you know how much

398
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: games are being powered on their cloud infrastructure, and um,

399
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 1: you know that's one part of the business. I think

400
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: the fun and exciting part that people tend to be

401
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: drawn to is, Oh, here's a new game that launched

402
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,239
Speaker 1: and we love it and we're playing it because there

403
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: are moors in the game. But there's so much that

404
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: goes on behind the door, behind the scenes in the

405
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: studio to pull that off for her. As you say

406
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: before that when you take a meeting, you're looking for

407
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: ten slides in a demo? A right, and um, what

408
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: are the top three slides you're lasering in on? Team

409
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: is always first? Um, you know, we invest in the

410
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: earliest stages of a business. I've been a founder three

411
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: times over. It's the hardest thing in the world to do.

412
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: It really is like running a successful startup, and I've

413
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: only done it one out of three tries. So from

414
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: experience of failure here. UM that that it's really challenging.

415
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: So team is always first. Team can be repeat founders.

416
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: Teams can be individuals who have domain expertise that's outsized

417
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: UM in a unique perspective, Like we talked about, TAM

418
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: is the other one, right, Like what is the total

419
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: addressable market that you're going after? Um? You know, if

420
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: you're launching a game only in New Zealand, I'm probably

421
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: not your guy, you know, Like it's just too small

422
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: of a market. You know, we have to return you know,

423
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: our fund to fifty five million dollars three times over right,

424
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: So I'm looking for a big market. We're gonna inevitably

425
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: own ten percent of that company, you know, So that

426
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: means you got to be a five million dollar outcome.

427
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: There has to be a massive market there, um, you know.

428
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: And I think those are the top two. If I

429
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: were to think about, you know, a third component at

430
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: the earliest stages, UM, it would probably have to be

431
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: past experience, right, what allows you to pull this off? Right,

432
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: Whether it's you see a lot of people hiring out

433
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: of Facebook and Google because they think there are companies

434
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: that have, you know, do it well, or you see

435
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: them come out of a successful startler, your track record,

436
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: and we invest the first time founders. But track record,

437
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: to me, is not necessarily a determinant of future success,

438
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: but it's a ingredient in the overall recipe that allows

439
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: you to pull off what is inevitably an incredibly challenging

440
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: feat What are some of those indicated as the first

441
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: time founder that you might fund? That's a your path,

442
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, gives you validity with regards to you know

443
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: you can do this thing. Yeah, Um, it's you know,

444
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: I refer to it a lot as um you know,

445
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: founder company fit. Right. So I came out of working

446
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: in mobile and I worked in gaming and my first

447
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: company was in mobile gaming. Like, you know, I hadn't

448
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: done a startup, but I've spent years in Microsoft. I've

449
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: worked at a bunch of startups, and that was a

450
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 1: key contributor, right, Like some people tell me, Oh, I

451
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: came out of Facebook, Like you're the eighteen thousand employee

452
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: working on like a non meaningful product, But like, were

453
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,719
Speaker 1: you the lead designer on I G Like that's different, right,

454
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 1: and so you kind of have to know what somebody

455
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: was really doing. Um, and that's where if you're a

456
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: first time founder, it's like, what is that unique inside? Right?

457
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: You might be at a company like a salesforce and say,

458
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: we drew these three things really well, but there's a

459
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: part over here that everybody's ignoring. And because we're generating billions,

460
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: that can be a hundred million dollar revenue run rate

461
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: business that can get us to a billion dollar valuation.

462
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna pick this piece off and this is why,

463
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: and this is the platform that I've worked on. Um,

464
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: So that's you know, we look for those like what

465
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: are the unique insights you have? What is your expertise

466
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: in your network? Your insight that allows you to to

467
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: to see around the corner that nobody else has seen.

468
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: And if you have that and you then have to

469
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: surround themselves like being a great found like the journey

470
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: of a founder in a first time founder. Everybody's the

471
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: first time founder at some point in time, and so

472
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: what you look for somebody who's highly coachable because you can,

473
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: you know, think about the sports analogy, but the NFL combine.

474
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: You might be able to jump really high, you might

475
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: be able to bench a lot, you might be able

476
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: to you know, max out on your reps, but are

477
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: you going to be great team leader? Are you gonna

478
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: be able to read defenses? Like what is your intuition?

479
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: And so everything that we do there's an art and

480
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: a science to it. And so when I think about founders,

481
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: you might be a great product person, you might be

482
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: a great salesperson. Um, you might have a unique insight,

483
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: but there's a ton about leading a business you don't know.

484
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: So you can be a great founder and a great

485
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: entrepreneur without being a great CEO. And the journey that

486
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: someone's willing to go on during this process is how

487
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: do you go from a good founder or a great

488
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: founder to a great CEO. And we've seen the biggest

489
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: companies in the world, the best companies of the world,

490
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: their CEO is the mature right Zuck couldn't get on

491
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: stage at one point in time and give a presentation. Fine,

492
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: now gates same thing, right, Um, basis you knew when

493
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: to call it a day in transition off to a

494
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: chairman role and leave the CEO. Right, And so they

495
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: went from great founders to becoming great CEOs. And that's

496
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: a path and a journey that that that years of

497
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, refining And so so I look at coachability

498
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: as one of the key factors for us. If somebody

499
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: is the first time founder that they're willing to learn

500
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: that they have a that they want to get better

501
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: at this craft. They just don't want to win in

502
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: the business, right, They actually have business goals that they

503
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: want to to get to and they understand that the

504
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: personal growth and development leads them to work that as well.

505
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're also a founder, as you mentioned, um,

506
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: and you're somewhat you know, I would say Mary to

507
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: particular verticals, you know, sports, gaming, you know, media, fitness, UM,

508
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: what you need value? Do you believe you provide founders

509
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: in these spaces because you know, again you're also a founder,

510
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: but as a VC, what value you provide? Yeah? So

511
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: every founder is great at something and there's areas of

512
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: improvement and I was no different. And so what I

513
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: try to work with founders on is where do you

514
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: need to help? Like what what are the things right?

515
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: Like I hope in many of the cases that I'm

516
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: not just a tactical component and another piece on the

517
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: chessboard that they move around to help accelerate the business.

518
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: That's the case many times, and that's fine. We play

519
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: that role, but you know, how do you build a

520
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: good company culture? Right? Like, what does that mean for you?

521
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: What are the values in the guiding lights and the

522
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: principles that you're driving your organization towards. Like people don't

523
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: think about them. It's just like I need to hire

524
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: for a role. I need to fill a body. I

525
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: need an engineer, I need a designer, I need a

526
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: product manager. I needed somebody is really good at us

527
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: your acquisition and then like run, But what are the

528
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: principles of the guiding lights behind that? Right? Um, In

529
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: my third company, everybody's salary was known by everybody else, transparent.

530
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: Everybody's equity ownership was transparent. Every decision, every meeting we had.

531
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: Everybody knew everything and we foster There was no jealousy,

532
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: there was no who's making more? Why? It was all benchmarked.

533
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: It was all standard perform mints And so you know, PTO,

534
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: do you have unlimited vacation policy? Why? How do you

535
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: make sure you don't suffer burnout? What are you doing? Like,

536
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: there's so many things that we try to work with

537
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: founders on to create a better company because oftentimes they're

538
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: so focused on the product, the sales, the outcomes that

539
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: if you ignore the underlying components of business. You're building

540
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: a house of cards that's gonna crumble at the point

541
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: in time. So you know that's from a founder perspective.

542
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: You know, how do you negotiate M and A deals?

543
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: I worked in them and A before, right, Like, what

544
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: are evaluations whether standard benchmarks? Like we talked to publicly

545
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: traded companies, we talked to private companies, We talked to

546
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: the head funds, We talk to other startups in the ecosystem,

547
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: knowledge sharing expertise. Our LPs are all strategic to US

548
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: public companies, high networth individuals, their protein owners. Whatever deals

549
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: we're doing, we want to be able to bring value

550
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: from ourselves and from our network our investors in that

551
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: comprehensive package. Hopefully as a board member or a board observer.

552
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: Often times if we don't take the board seat will

553
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: add value. And so we try to do it on

554
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: personal level and try to do it in the fun level.

555
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: We work really hard for and with our founders. We

556
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: consider ourselves part of the extended team and whatever we

557
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: need to do that we can to support that business.

558
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: We spend time. My entire Friday is always dedicated to

559
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: my perfora black Tech Green Money is a production the

560
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: Blackty Afro Tech on the Black Effect Podcast Network and

561
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: I Heart Media. It's produced by Morgan Dabon and me

562
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: Will Lucas, with aditional production supported by love Be Simmy

563
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: Risa Lewis. Special thank you to MIKEA. Davis Sadam Sims.

564
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: It's the carsa von Yan you know, like the wine. Yes,

565
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: that's his real name. Learn more about my guests and

566
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: other tech this the innovatives at afrotech dot com. The

567
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: video version of this episode will drop the Black Tech

568
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: Green Money on YouTube, So tap in enjoying Black Tech

569
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: Green Money, Leave us a five star ready on iTunes.

570
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: Gonna get your money, Peace and love