WEBVTT - From the Vault: The Facial Feedback Hypothesis 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:07.600 Hey, you, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.920 name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:13.040 Time to go into the vault for a classic episode. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:17.720 This episode originally aired on June nineteen, and it was 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:22.120 about the facial feedback hypothesis, something that has been proposed 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.640 supposed for many years now. It goes back a long ways. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.680 Darwin commented on it, and it's the idea that our 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.920 emotions are not only reflected in our facial expressions, but 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.519 in some ways shaped by our facial expressions that, like 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.120 the movements of the body create a feedback effect that 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.479 goes back in and tweaks what we're feeling. And so 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.600 we tried to look at the evidence to see is 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.760 this actually true? Yeah, what comes first? The smile or 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.239 the happy? The happy or the smile, That's what this 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:56.720 episode is all about. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:05.880 Mind production of I Heart Radios How to Work. Hey, 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:07.720 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.520 Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And let's give this 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.200 opening another shot because I just tried to really corny 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.200 opening line and Robert's just a look of quiet contempt 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.319 across the table. I was I was laughing on the inside, 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.160 you know, I'm sure you were. I wasn't even laughing 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.720 at my own joke. There. Um, maybe this will be better, Okay, 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.440 So we're gonna start off today by doing a Charles 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.080 Darwin deep cut. So Darwin of course published his great 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.759 work on the Origin of Species in eighteen fifty nine, 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:38.039 and of course that was the book that explained his 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.600 theory of the origin of species, the Revolution by natural selection. 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.319 Then later you got another one, that's The Descent of 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.880 Man eighteen seventy one, which applied his theory to human evolution. 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.160 And then a year after that, in eighteen seventy two, 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:55.440 he published The Expression of Emotions in Man and Animals, 0:01:55.800 --> 0:02:02.559 which is about the biological features of emotions like happiness, sadness, surprise, fear, 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:07.440 for example, the relationship between what we feel and the 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.880 physical expressions of those feelings in the body. Because I 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.680 think this is one of those little mysteries that's so 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.560 close and so invisible, we forget to ask why. But 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.520 why is it that emotions which are influenced by the 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.880 content of our thoughts, like our beliefs and our knowledge 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.639 what we're aware of they Why do they cause these powerful, automatic, 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.720 even unconscious reactions from the muscles and glands throughout the body. 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.959 Why does a feeling of moral disgust cause us to 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.680 involuntarily turn our faces away and crinkle our noses up? 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.120 Or why does a feeling of embarrassment or passion sometimes 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.760 cause blood to rush to the cheeks and cause us 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.919 to cover parts of our faces with our hands. Or 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.840 why does an emotionally manipulative TV commercial about a sad 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.640 dog trigger these unconscious movements in the eyebrows and the 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.320 corners of the mouth, or even engage the tear ducks 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.800 if you're a real sap yes, a sad dog, the 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.560 dog should be smiling and be happy. Right, Well, there's 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.040 always like those are the things that are funny, where 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.200 like a really dramatically moving, you know, whole movie or 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.880 book might not make me cry, but like the sentimental 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.800 commercial with like the old dog Buddy and the you know, 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.240 buying the purina one for him or whatever that really 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.280 like gets me going finally sharpened and by um uh, 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.640 you know, a multimillion dollar marketing campaigns to cut right 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.480 to the heart. Now their emotional assassins they slip in 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.480 in the night their ninja. So I think these relationships 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:50.000 between thoughts and feelings and autonomically regulated involuntary activity of 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.640 the skeletal muscles in the face and elsewhere in the 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:58.320 body is truly a fascinating evolutionary mystery. Why do our 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.240 bodies execute these movements when we feel these things? What 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.560 biological purpose does it serve? And why do so many 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.480 of these relationships between feelings and movements of the skeletal muscle, 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.480 not all, but a lot of them. Why do they 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:17.760 seem to transcend cultural, national, and linguistic barriers. So I 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.719 think this whole area is a is a totally interesting 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.440 subject ripe for investigation. But today we wanted to focus 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:29.039 on one specific question that arises from Darwin's work here, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.719 and to introduce this question, I want to read a 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.800 passage with a few abridgements from the very end of 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.440 the book, where Darwin writes about some of the implications 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:41.880 of his observations about emotions in humans and animals. Quote. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.560 The movements of expression in the face and body, whatever 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.880 their origin may have been, are in themselves of much 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.400 importance for our welfare. They serve as the first means 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.920 of communication between the mother and her infant. She smiles 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.960 approval and thus encourages her child on the right path, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:03.760 or frowns disapproval. We readily perceive it's right away, But 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.640 come on, a kid was just born, just already just 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:11.920 complete disapproval, Maybe that's more important. Later we readily perceived 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.680 sympathy in others by their expression. Our sufferings are thus 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.599 mitigated and our pleasures increased, and mutual good feeling is 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:24.039 thus strengthened. The movements of expression give vividness and energy 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.919 to our spoken word. They reveal the thoughts and intentions 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.800 of others more truly than do words, which may be falsified. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.520 And then a little bit later, the free expression by 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:40.200 outward signs of an emotion intensifies it. On the other hand, 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.120 the repression, as far as this is possible, of all 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.880 outward signs, softens our emotions. He who gives way to 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.880 violent gestures will increase his rage. He who does not 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.839 control the signs of fear will experience fear in a 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.760 greater degree. And he who remains passive when overwhelmed with 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.080 grief loses his best chance of recovering. Elasticity of mind 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.400 These results followed partly from the intimate relation which exists 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.800 between almost all the emotions and their outward manifestations, and 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.280 partly from the direct influence of exertion on the heart 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:19.000 and consequently on the brain. Even the simulation of an 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:23.920 emotion tends to arouse it in our minds. Shakespeare, who 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.440 from his wonderful knowledge of the human mind, ought to 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.120 be an excellent judge, says, is it not monstrous that 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.280 this player here? And this is a line from Hamlet's soliloquy, 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.160 where he's watching the play, and he's watching the actors, 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.120 and he concludes in the end that the plays the 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.599 thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king. But 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.520 earlier in the soliloquy he's uh watching the actors act, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.000 and and Hamlet thinks, is it not monstrous that this 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.600 player here, but in a fiction, in a dream of passion, 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.279 could force his soul so to his own conceit that 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.679 from her working all his visage wand tears in his eyes, 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.920 distraction in this aspect, a broken voice, and his whole 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:08.320 functions suiting with forms to his conceit, and all for nothing. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.800 You know, this is interesting getting into acting, because I 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.720 feel like, maybe this is just me, but I feel 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.920 like a lot of us when we watch a well 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.160 acted scene, especially in a film as opposed to a play, 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.640 where you can actually get so much closer uh to 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.800 the facial features of the actor, if if the actor 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.440 is is truly talented, it's something to behold watching them 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:37.800 channel emotions, sometimes completely nonverbally, and I think it probably 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:39.960 stands out for a couple of reasons. For for starters, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.200 there are a lot of bad or just average performances 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:48.040 in film where you don't see authentic emotion uh channeled, 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.240 even in like scenes of extreme emotion, which you're going 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.040 to encounter more often in a film perhaps than in 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.960 everyday life. But even in everyday life, when we are 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.680 when we're encountering someone displaying extreme emotion, were likely a 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.120 part of that scenario, you know, unless we're just as 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.600 we see something on the street. But even then, I mean, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.000 are we Unless you're a complete bystander and you're just 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.440 completely locked out of it, you're probably going to feel something. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.000 That's a really good point. Whereas if you watch, if 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.360 you're watching just a really well acted scene in a film, 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.280 like you you have that permission of distance, right where 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.280 you can stand back and say, look at what their 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:24.120 their faces doing, like I'm watching blood vessels move, I'm 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.080 seeing something in their eyes, like I'm I'm seeing authentic 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.200 emotion pour out of their face. Yeah, it's like watching 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.400 a film can, especially with great acting, can be like 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:38.360 a tasting course for human emotions, whereas normally, like you know, 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.080 you'd be involved in the cooking or something where you know, 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.480 and so. Uh and of course it would just be 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:48.240 rude to try to observe other people's emotions. Uh so, yeah, Yeah, 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.080 that's a really good point about acting, and it is 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:56.880 uh interesting. I mean we often wonder this, right, like, um, 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.640 when an actor convincingly portrays an emotion or character, does 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.000 the actor actually feel that emotion? What are the important 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:10.040 biological or psychological differences in the moment between an actor 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.800 acting out in emotion with their face and their body 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.079 and a person actually feeling that emotion, Like, what what 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.679 are the differences you could name their Yeah, I mean, 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.559 obviously they're different approaches to acting, different schools of acting, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.120 but uh, you know, certainly a lot of the time 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.600 when you're seeing somebody emote on the screen, they are 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.400 they're drawing on real emotions, real experiences that are in 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.319 some way comparable to what their character is supposed to feel. Yeah, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.280 and I think that's why a lot of times actors 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.600 actually need time to say, get into and out of character. 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.040 You know. They can't turn it off and on in 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.080 an instant. I mean, I guess maybe some can, but 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.400 a lot can't. They need they need a few moments 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.840 to sort of gather themselves, to get in and then 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.640 gather themselves once they get out. But yeah, So anyway, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:57.240 Darwin is suggesting here that the bodily manifestations of emotion, 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.920 including the facial expressions, are not just a consequence of 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.640 the emotions we feel, though they are that, of course, uh. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.760 And the fact that we have these outward uh signs 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.440 of the emotions we feel, of course, is useful for 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.640 communicating our emotional states to others, and this could be 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.200 one very important biological role that these expressions play. But 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:22.160 he says they also are involved in the regulation and 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:27.080 maintenance of the emotions themselves. So a smile isn't just 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:32.360 a consequence of feeling joy. The smile contributes to and 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:37.000 sustains and modulates the feeling of joy. The tightened lip 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.280 corner isn't just a result of our feeling of contempt, 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.480 but it in some way makes us feel contempt. So 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.400 it's almost like there are two dogs chained to each other, 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.000 and if one moves the other one cannot help but 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.240 be moved as well. Right, well, I mean according to 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.880 to Darwin's view here, Yeah, so his ideas that the 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.520 the bodily expressions don't just follow from emotional states. They 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.000 they in part are the emotional states. They contribute to 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:06.280 and control the emotional states. Yeah yeah, and uh, you know, 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.000 we'll get into this some more. But I think that 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.280 this is something that a lot of us can can 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.280 point to times in our life where this either definitely 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:18.480 feels true or other times where it definitely doesn't feel true. Like, um, 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:21.880 for instance, I go to I go to yoga a 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:26.200 lot I really enjoy and I think benefit physically and 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.160 mentally from a yoga practice. And there are times where 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.560 you're you're in a pose and a teacher may tell everybody, 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.240 don't you know, don't forget to smile, smile, and then 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:41.720 that'll change your sort of emotional uh participation with the pose. 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.360 And in those situations, it it does feel sometimes like 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.560 it helps on the other hand, I've had teachers who 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.679 say that they they've stopped saying that because sometimes people 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.320 in the class, you know, have bad experience with being 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.040 told to smile. I mean, that's become very much a 0:11:56.160 --> 0:12:01.480 being harassed on the streets cliche of misogynistic behavior telling 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.120 someone they should smile more telling someone they should smile, 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.680 And it can be that alone. Yeah, I can feel 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.920 no matter you know, you know, you know what what 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.880 your your your gender happens to be, it's like being 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.800 told to smile, as if that is just going to 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.000 fix your problems, that's gonna totally change your your your mood. 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.600 It can feel insulting, right, Like, surely my emotional state 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:23.760 depends on more than just what my face is doing. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.400 And ultimately I think we all can agree it does 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.880 being told to smile, and then smiling does not fix 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.240 whatever caused you to frown to begin with. And then 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.480 that's not getting into the case, you know, the situation 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.200 that we do need to frown, we do need to 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.679 have like the full uh spectrum of emotions. Right, that's 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.920 certainly right, even if Darwin is correct, Like even if 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.800 Darwin is right that the smile itself can give you 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.160 some kind of feedback that in turn actually increases the 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.720 positivity of your emotional state. The smile can make you happier. 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.640 I mean that that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for other, 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.120 like exogenous forces to try to coerce smiling on you, 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.199 to tell you should be smiling, which I think can 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.720 probably lead to all kinds of other emotions that could 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.880 negate whatever positivity comes from the muscle movements that might 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.840 be making you happier. So, as we're talking, you know, 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.679 we're not talking just about smiles, but smiles do come 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.000 up a lot in in the discussion here, so I 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:21.599 thought it would be helpful to take a moment just 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.360 talk about what a smile is. Um. You know, our 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.200 smile is a bit different from the smile that we 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.040 see expressed by our great ape brethren, where it is 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.920 essentially a fear grin. Uh. You know it's it's often 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.280 flashed when an individual is trapped or threatened, it to 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.600 show of submission to more dominant members of the group, 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.880 and you know it's it is then an admission of 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.640 fear and a signal, uh, though a signal that doesn't 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.600 just stand on its own. It's like part of a 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.280 larger bodily signal that is expressed, uh as if to say, 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.680 you know, I am not hostile, I'm not a threat. 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.080 And I was reading a little bit about this neuroscientist 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.160 um Michael Graziano, who have discussed on the show before. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.360 He has a wonderful Eon magazine article that discusses this topic, 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.040 and he points out a number of things we've talked 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.000 about here already. Also points out, you know that that 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:15.040 even you know, with humans, people sometimes in subservient positions, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.880 will will smile a lot. You know, there's sort of 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:22.200 the uh, you know, the the boot licking smile that 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.680 we still kind of identify the idea of the obsequious smile. Yeah, 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.040 and uh, and so that in that it would seem 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.920 that there are certain aspects of the great ape smile 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.640 but haven't quite left us. Uh. You know. He points 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.320 as well to shakespeare line from troy Less and Cressida 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.280 quote they send their smiles before them to Achilles, uh, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.160 which which I think is is rather nice. So the 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.400 human smile seems to have definitely emerged out of the 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.200 same sort of thing. I mean, you know, we are 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.680 we are primates after all. And of course, even though 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.000 they're you know, a smile as a smile, as a smile. 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.320 There are some cultural differences in the way smiles are 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:01.000 perceived from one culture to another. Um. You we mentioned, uh, 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.640 Darwin mentioned babies earlier, and and certainly human newborns flash 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.800 reflex smiles, but then social smiles come a little later, 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:12.720 six to twelve weeks generally. Um. Yeah. Anyway, In this 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.360 an article, uh, Graziano points out that, you know, most 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.040 commentators agree that primate smiles are very old, and some 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:21.840 think that it might have evolved out of an old 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.600 or threatening display. But he thinks that if we focus 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.040 too much on the teeth, we miss something else. Again, 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.120 that full body display that is evident, right, It involves 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.960 multiple regions of muscles in the face. Yeah, I think 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.640 stuff around the cheeks and the sides of the mouth, 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.080 but also the eyes, right yeah, yeah, and even yeah, 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.360 just like what you know, the full body is doing 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.080 in the full uh you know, communication array that is 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.720 the face in the head. So what do you proposes 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.640 ultimately is that we're talking we're talking about here is 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.360 a smile that's kind of a halfway point between not 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:57.600 reacting to a display of dominance and fully reacting to it. Um, 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.280 which which is? Which is interesting? It's almost like, um, 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.240 you know, these these creatures learning to lie to each other, 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.000 to deceive each other, you know. Um, here's a quote 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.880 from where he's talking about like monkey A and monkey be, 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.800 you know, hypothetically interacting. Quote. Monkey be can learn a 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.880 lot by watching the reaction of Monkey A. If Monkey 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.800 A makes a full blown protective response, cringe and all, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.040 it's a pretty good sign that Monkey A is frightened. 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.200 He's uneasy, his personal space is revved up and expanded. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.400 He must view monkey B as a threat, a social superior. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.120 On the other hand, if Monkey A reveals only a 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.800 subtle response, perhaps squinting and slightly pulling back his head, 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.600 it's a good sign that Monkey A is not so frightened. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:40.840 He does not consider Monkey B to be a social 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.480 superior or a threat. So the social signal evolves from here, 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.600 and he drives home the quote. The primary evolutionary pressure 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.000 is on the receiver of the signal, not the sender. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.160 The story is about how we came to react to smiles. Yeah, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.200 that's interesting, but it also raises all these other questions 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.600 about So if we consider the evolution of the smile 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.159 as having something to do with social signaling, and you know, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.240 it relates to the social relationships between animals that live 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.160 in groups and interact with each other. Why is it 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.840 that in in our lives at least, I would say 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.280 the smile is very divorced from that original context where 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.359 you smile by yourself all the time, you be completely 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.600 alone and something makes you happy and you find yourself beaming. Yeah, 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.680 this is true. Um. Now, we've discussed before though, how 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.000 we might not laugh, though we might smile but not laugh, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:32.800 or at least that's a good point. The laughter might 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.280 be and the smile might be more pronounced if there's 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.600 someone else around, particularly you know, someone really know. Yeah, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.080 we were just talking about this before we started recording. Actually, 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.320 how you know we we watched the Mystery Science Theater 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.240 three thousand episode and we laugh if somebody else is 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.560 in the room. It's still funny if nobody else is there, 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:56.240 but you just don't laugh out loud. Yeah, I've Hey, 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.199 I'm trying to think of a time if I if 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.600 I ever watched something and just really laughed out loud 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.200 by myself, and how funny it is, like, uh, yeah, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.800 nothing comes to mind and in fact, I think I 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.639 would feel weird if I did. I would feel like 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.200 Sam Neil's character at the end of In the Mouth 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.879 of Madness where he's uh in the movie theater. Sometimes 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.080 Barbarian movies do it for me. I think I was 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.400 laughing pretty loud by myself when I was watching Your 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.400 Hunter from the Future. No, maybe you were just beside 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.359 yourself with laughter. And therefore you know you have you 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:32.120 know yourself to to communicate to um. So, so basically, 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.240 Graziana points out, you know that from here it would 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.320 have been an evolutionary arms race. Um And and this 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:38.960 is a wonderful article, by the way, it's titled The 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.479 First Smile. It's available, you know, Eddie and magazine and uh. 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.600 He gets into laughter as well. But here's how he 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.800 sums everything up. Quote. Evolution favors animals that can read 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.359 and react to those signs, and it favors animals that 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.679 can manipulate those signs to influence whoever is watching. We 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.399 have stumbled on the defining ambiguity of human emotional life. 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.680 We are always quite caught between authenticity and fakeery, always 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:10.960 floating in the gray area between involuntary outburst and expedient pretense. Yeah, 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:12.600 so you know, I think it's helpful to think about 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.360 the complexity of the smile, the mix of authenticity and fakeery. Um. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.720 You know, we've just I think we've discussed fake smiles 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.879 on the show before about how you know, there's this 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.439 lack of micro expressive detail and a fake smile that 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.560 you can pick up on. Um. But that to like 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.600 truly fake a smile, you do have to summon some 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.359 of the energy of the smile, you know. Um. Yeah, anyway, 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.879 it gets it gets very complicated, and especially in the 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.560 human scenario, to to define exactly what a smile is 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.399 in the degrees of smiling. Well, here's maybe a good question. 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:49.880 Are all smiles on command fake smiles? Or are there 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.560 are there cases where you smile on command and not 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.320 because you know, you suddenly are overwhelmed by a feeling 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.239 of positivity and joy and happiness. You know, you just 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.520 smile because you need to. But it's not fake. Yeah, 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:03.439 this is a good question. It's it's it kind of 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.520 goes in with laughter as well, or at least kind 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.000 of like the mild laughter. I think of like interactions 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.760 with people, uh, you know, be be it at work 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:12.960 or you know, strangers at a store, you know, the 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.240 various social interactions that feel our lives. And I'll catch 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.320 myself smiling, I'll catch myself, you know, laughing a little bit, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.399 even if there's not a joke, which seems strange, like 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.240 maybe it makes me kind of feel like I'm the 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.280 joker or something. Um, the man who laughs. Yeah, not 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:28.960 in a good way, not in the Steve Miller way, 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.520 but you know, in the Batman way. Um, and yeah, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.800 and you start teasing it apart, and you start asking yourself, well, 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.919 was this authentic? Was this inauthentic? Or was it or 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.119 is it like Graziano says, is somewhere in between? Like 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.160 for for instance, um, I think one person wrote into 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.240 us once and accused one or both of us a 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.119 fake laughing at each other's jokes. Do you remember this? 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.680 I don't remember this, and uh, um yeah, it was 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:55.240 a while back, and I think only it was only 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.240 one person that ever ever wrote in about it. And 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.160 it just made me stop and think though, because I'm like, well, 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.879 what we do here is is kind of a performance. 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.040 You know, we're not reading from a script, We're having 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.360 an authentic conversation, but it's a conversation knowing that someone 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:15.400 else is listening to it, and like we we do 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.679 make each other laugh, maybe we do lean into it 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:20.959 a little bit. I don't know it. Like it basically 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.200 comes down to exactly what Graziana said that it's it's 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.040 not just fakery and authenticity, but there's this there's this 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.439 huge area in between, and we may not even be 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.240 aware of where we are on that spectrum in a 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.560 given moment. Okay, I think we gotta take a break, 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:38.920 but we will be right back with more than Alright, 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:43.920 we're back. Okay. So we've been discussing facial expressions emotions. 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:48.480 Uh Darwin's writing on the relationship between facial expressions and emotions, 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:50.639 or not just facial expressions, I mean all kinds of 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:55.640 body expressions and physical manifestations and emotions. Um. And so 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:57.760 this leads up to something that we're going to be 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.119 talking about for the rest of today's episode, which has 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:05.040 come to be known as the facial feedback hypothesis. Now, 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.120 I guess to have a starting place, we should talk 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.959 about what some of the acceptable emotions for discussions are, 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:15.440 because obviously there are lots of complex emotions that might 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.760 be you know, little shadings of other more basic emotions 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:24.480 or combinations of feelings commonly acknowledged basic emotions in psychology, 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:29.199